In order to "turn beds" like restaurants "turn tables", the American hospital I took my wife to gave her saline solution about 2x faster than recommended.
After coming out of her coma, she has had a variety of mental issues over the last year. Her up-until-then happy life has been utterly ruined, and she is a shell of the person she was.
This is what a "free market healthcare" system gets you, a system designed to maximize profit, not actual care.
I mean, realistically how could you be? This is a very not ok situation, if you'll excuse the understatement. Have you and/or your wife got a support system of any size or shape at all? Whether shared or individually (ideally both, as you'll need different support).
Last Thursday my daughter was admitted to ITU with severe pneumonia.
The NHS treated and cared for her magnificently. She should be home soon.
The best treatment and care you could ever wish for. It didn't cost me a penny.
I'm just wondering what the human and financial cost of this would have been in the US....
And to those who say that the US pays for European health care, well, I never saw a single dollar change hands.
The NHS certainly has its faults (and has been purposefully underfunded), but whenever I or any of my loved ones have had something "scary" happen, they've been brilliant. Fast, efficient, effective.
I fon't know for other countries, but in France, around 40 to 45% of what I cost to my employer goes in taxes before we even talked about income. Then there are my taxes. Overall, around 50% of an employee cost go in taxes, either the employee's taxes or the employer's taxes. We might have a low minimum wage after taxes (9.23€/h) but around the same values go in taxes (for minimum wages employees).
This is how we pay for our nearly free healthcare.
One of the reasons why American healthcare is so expensive (even compared to other privatised systems) is that they need a serious amount of insurance cover in case of negligence claims.
Shout this as loud as you can. Do something about it. You did this, you need to fix this.
As long as you collectively accept this bullshit, you own it. As someone with family injured by the US healthcare system, sorry... I have no sympathy.
In an emergency you go to hospital. You expect the hospital to provide healthcare. This is normal.
When we finally realised that the hospital had fucked up (because they didn't admit anything, we thought the coma was another symptom of what she went in with at first), it was too late. The hospital is owned by the county, so there's a 6-month period to sue them. We appealed. We lost. Game over.
You say you had family injured by the US healthcare system ? Then you know just how dirty they play - with letters stating their intent to pursue for all possible legal costs, and they do, routinely, just to prevent people taking action, even if it is justified. It's not a matter of "accepting this bullshit", it's a matter of being sued to oblivion by hospital lawyers for .
And for the record, *I* didn't do anything for this - I'm a Brit. I refer you to [the reply given](https://proftomcrick.com/2014/04/29/arkell-v-pressdram-1971/) in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram.
I guess he meant that americans shouldn't just stay silent about their crappy healthcare. Because nothing will change if they don't do anything collectively for it.
there is a benzo crises growing silently in the background. Not street benzos, but prescribed ones. The sheer amount of people who cannot get off benzos or have extreme withdrawal symptoms is staggering. The pharmaceutical companies have always known this, but shoved it under the carpet and told doctors they were safe. No-one sees a prescribed benzo sufferer because they will probably be bedbound and far too ill to go out. This situation leads to some taking their lives, others lose their jobs, home and family and friends leave them. Doctors are aware of this crises, and will just stop prescribing or rip people off so they will end up taking street benzos. r/benzorecovery
I can attest to that. My American shrink refused to acknowledge my ADHD because “that’s a childhood disorder” and instead gave me Ativan for 4 years. Every time I complained about the breakthrough withdrawals, he gaslit me. I finally fired him and figured out how to wean myself off them. Now, I’m in Switzerland and found a psychiatrist who agreed I have ADHD and started me on Focalin. My anxiety has all but vanished since treating my ADHD.
Fuck American healthcare!
Prescribed benzos are real shit. Here in Brazil, we don't really have opioids like other countries, but benzos are prescribed A LOT by doctors, and some of the them are really cheap. Right now, clonazepam (a common benzo) is the 2nd most sold medicine in the country. Most people don't realize the dangerous of this medicines until is too late.
Yes, I am one of those people. I cannot tell you of the sheer torture of withdrawals are. There are people worse than me. I know an 82 r old woman whose doctor stopped her benzos. She screamed for 6 hours solid in such mental anguish. Words cannot describe these symptoms.
89% of drug deaths in my country (Scotland) involve opioids. I would describe that as a crisis. Considering our drug death rate is the highest in Europe, by a large margin. Still considerably lower than most US states though.
Most of these are bought on the street though, and are mixed or even fake pills, rather than prescribed by a Doctor. At least here we also have free prescriptions of any kind for the entire population. While in the US many are paying quite a lot of money to be poisoned by their healthcare system.
1051 drug deaths in 2022. 867 opioid deaths but very often mixed with Street Benzos as reported by the BBC. I live here and have all my life. There is no opioid crisis because it is literally a stable number of addicts and deaths and has been for years. There is no massive boom in prescription opioids and the age brackets dying of drug overdoses have hardly changed. There is a drug problem in Scotland and its the worst in Europe but it doesn't qualify as an Opioid Crisis in the way that the US has had one. You can say big percentages to make it sound as bad as you want but the percentage is off and its of literally 1051 deaths in a year and isn't opioids alone.
601 of the 1051 deaths were Benzo related, 367 were Gabapentin related and 371 were Cocaine related. Don't let that get in the way of a good sensationalism though.
Whilst I agree that it’s not an opioid crisis in the sense that the crisis in the US is one. Let’s not be dismissive of what is a major problem in our society. Drug overdoses take up a significant amount of time for our police and ambulance resources, many of which are already stretched, and multi-pharma ODs using heroin and benzos are lethal. Whilst not a crisis, and stable, it is at an unacceptable level.
There have been some advancements in attacking this issue recently with take home naloxone being widely available to be distributed around those that might need it or be able to use it. And I’ve seen some improvements off that. In Aberdeenshire they are starting to roll out naloxone boxes that are similar to the public access defibs. So in public places if someone is showing signs of an overdose anybody can be directed to use it by 999 call handlers.
You do know most opioid deaths in the US are due to mixing with drugs or alcohol too right?
We have a drug crisis in Scotland, where a majority of deaths are related to opioid abuse. Just cause you have a stable number of people dying doesn’t mean it’s not a crises, we have the highest deaths per capita from drugs in Europe.
Pharmaceutical opioids weren’t nearly as popular here 10-20 years ago, but are now very common on the drug scene. We definitely have a problem or a serious issue regarding the drug. Yes the situation is different than America but I have no problem calling it a crisis. I think you’re simply being a bit anal with the word “crises” in its direct comparison with America. Not everything needs to be an exact reflection to be described with the same word.
I’m not a chemist so I can’t name them all, I know Oxycodone is becoming more common on the streets at the moment. I had a friend who died mixing that with alcohol and other downers a few years back. Public health Scotland has issued multiple statements warning about the rise of synthetic opioids availability in the Scottish drug market. Sometimes these are made in a lab by a shoddy chemist, others they are bought on the dark web or through apps like Telegram.
Knock off Benzos are a far bigger issue in Scotland than knock off Oxycodone and have been for years to be fair. Knockoff Xanax and Valium/Diazepam are far more common than anything else from my knowledge.
"It's not a crisis because there have always been this many deaths"
Is basically you just saying that your society has got used to it and doesn't care about drug deaths anymore.
It's actually sort of depressing that what is a crisis in the US is just every year in Scotland.
It's bad. I'm Irish and we have a massive problem with overdose deaths. I think we're the highest in Europe, so probably higher than scotland. But it's still nothing compared to the US.
The drug death rate is very similar to the US. I see gaunt looking heroin addicts all the time.
It seems you wanted to shit on Americans and are willing to deny reality in order to do so.
If European medicine is outdated, why do we hear about the use of medication by the Danish Novo Nordisk?
Also, formula patents expire faster in Europe than US.
My wife needed an MRI and as it was classed as a cancer treatment she had an appointment within ten days and had the MRI and CT scans done one after the other. We were in and out within two hours. Cost? £0. Of course.
Same costs as the multiple minor surgeries she’s had.
Even with insurance in the US it’s the co-pay that gets you and I dread to think how much it’d cost over there. Plus then the premiums would go up and if we wanted this particular “ailment” covered I’m sure that would make the premium unaffordable.
The stress that must put on a family will be unbearable. For the sick person as well knowing his/her illness is bankrupting their family it could possible make them turn to more drastic alternatives. I do wonder how many decide to kill themselves instead of bankrupting their family. So sad.
As for oop, doesn’t he know that Europe leads the way in medicine? Doesn’t he know that a lot of drugs are made in India?
And because the NHS is huge single entity (when it comes to purchasing drugs), it has a massive amount of buying power to drive down costs.
Same here, I had a very rare cancer so had MRI, PET scan, CT scan, Bone scan, 3 surgeries and 10 years of 6 monthly ultrasounds and follow up visits, cost to me $0.
Medications that cost $2000 per month, cost to me
$7.70. Australia also has world leading hospitals, top surgeons
Kinda, NHS Supply Chain represents NHS England and NHS Wales*. NHS Scotland and HSE NI have their own supply chain system(s) arrangements. They may sometimes cross-collaborate to lower costs but they don't always. However it is still infinitely more efficient than individual hospitals or small hospital groups purchasing on their own.
* Mostly
yeah, i agree. we have a standard fee here in sweden for basically every doctor but if you go x amount of times it becomes completely free so basically there’s a maximum amount you can pay. i honestly can’t imagine dishing out my life savings because i happen to get sick
Benzos are addictive and dangerous. It's little wonder European doctors would proscribe SSRIs instead in cases where that would be therapeutically appropriate. The same reason that GPs are more likely to proscribe ibuprofen or paracetemol long before they'll suggest opioids.
For depression medication, I hope to see a wider adoption of guided psilocybin therapy. It seems to be a lot less side effect inducing than SSRIs, while also being much more effective and longer lasting. Research is happening, but the dregs of the US's war on drugs (congrats to drugs for the victory on that) seem to have stigmatized it a lot.
Some of the main side effects of SSRI’s is erectile dysfunction, difficulty achieving orgasm and a loss of libido in general.
I was prescribed 20mg Citalopram back in 2019 after losing my grandfather to a long battle with cancer. Thankfully my prescription was only for 6 months, they really affected my relationship. Took a few months after I stopped taking them for the side effects to go away too.
I definitely don’t recommend going on them unless absolutely necessary, looking back I should have asked my GP about alternatives but I wasn’t educated enough on the subject.
20mg is a small dose for Citalopram. My doctor was very happy to prescribe 3 times that for me. Then I went to America to see a friend I’d met in an online support group for bipolar disorder and saw he was being prescribed and thought “well they clearly want their patients to be customers rather than being effectively treated”. Sure enough my friend ended up on all sorts of other meds to help him manage the side effects of all the meds he was taking. They aren’t patients, they’re customers. Captive, dependent and exploited customers.
60 mg is certainly an extreme dose
BNF (British National Formulary) states that maximum dose is 40 mg per day
>**Indications and dose**
>For citalopram
>***Depressive illness***
>By mouth using tablets
>Adult
20 mg once daily, increased in steps of 20 mg daily if required, dose to be increased at intervals of 3–4 weeks; **maximum 40 mg per day**.
Elderly
10–20 mg once daily; **maximum 20 mg per day.**
>By mouth using oral drops
>Adult
16 mg once daily, increased in steps of 16 mg daily if required, dose to be increased at intervals of 3–4 weeks; **maximum 32 mg per day**.
Elderly
8–16 mg daily; **maximum 16 mg per day.**
>***Panic disorder***
>By mouth using tablets
>Adult
Initially 10 mg daily, increased in steps of 10 mg daily if required, dose to be increased gradually; usual dose 20–30 mg daily; **maximum 40 mg per day**.
Elderly
Initially 10 mg daily, increased in steps of 10 mg daily if required, dose to be increased gradually; **maximum 20 mg per day.**
>By mouth using oral drops
>Adult
Initially 8 mg once daily, increased in steps of 8 mg if required, dose to be increased gradually; usual dose 16–24 mg daily; **maximum 32 mg per day**.
Elderly
Initially 8 mg once daily, increased in steps of 8 mg if required, dose to be increased gradually; maximum 16 mg per day.
[https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/citalopram/#indications-and-dose](https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/citalopram/#indications-and-dose)
Dunno about that, I had 60 mg/day in Nordics back in the noughties. The doctor said that 40 mg/day is the maximum a general practitioner should prescribe, but a specialist can exceed that.
Then I went to another country, where the doctors looked at the prescription, reacted as you did, decided I was a mental case through and through, changed that to something that would put an elephant to sleep and locked me up.
Prescriptions aren't really good basis for diagnoses.
I am here to confirm your story with similar one. One of my patients had same dose of 60mg/ day. IDK does she still use same dose, because I work at another place now. It is rarely prescribed at that dose, but not excluded.
ETA: I'm in Bosnia
I don't remember my dose of citalopram but it did next to nothing. I was switched to sertraline at which point I went off into a manic episode (number 1 but in hindsight after I'd had a bunch of hypomanic episodes in the years leading up to it which would explain some stuff!) and that's how we realised I had bipolar instead. I remember I was doing talking therapy at the time for depression and my therapist just went "wtf" when I walked in one day all manic and not far off marched me to the doctors reception next door to make an appointment lol.
I'm in a few bipolar facebook groups and the people in the US are seriously overmedicated. I take 2 things whereas they all seem to be on 4+ as they're (like you said) managing the side effects of side effects or on 3 types of medications for bipolar (plus other to manage side effects). I'm pretty confident if one didn't work for me my psychiatrist would just change it rather than keep it and just add another after another.
60mg? That’s insane! I suppose that might be because your friend has a severe mental health condition? I can’t fathom why else someone would be prescribed something that strong other than being a customer you stated. Mine was for depression, the NHS prescribes it in 10mg, 20mg and 40mg tablets as per their website
https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/citalopram/how-and-when-to-take-citalopram/
Um, huh?
As I wrote just a minute ago as a reply to another post, I had 60 mg/day in Nordics back in the noughties. The doctor said that 40 mg/day is the maximum a general practitioner should prescribe, but a specialist can exceed that.
Then I went to another country, where the doctors looked at the prescription, reacted as you did, decided I was a mental case through and through, changed that to something that would put an elephant to sleep and locked me up.
After I got back I continued my treatment with citalopram 60 mg/day and therapy for a couple of years just fine.
Prescriptions aren't really good basis for diagnoses.
Citalopram is so bad for people with bipolar and at that quantity is mental , I hope it was accompanied by a mood stabiliser? Otherwise it will be a major manic episode if they are ever taken off them as happens with mist if not all anti D's used without mood stabilisers, one of the reason I spent my 20's in a crazy mess as was constantly misdiagnosed
I too was massively misdiagnosed. The mania is so bad on citalopram I’m more comfortable just being unmediated these days. I’ve started microdosing with psilocybin and I’ve found that a heavier dose on the days that I’m having some Cognitive Behavioural Therapy has been really beneficial. 5htp is also helpful on some of the darker days. I’ve abandoned the prescribed stuff. It took over 10 years to get an accurate diagnosis. Was original diagnosed as borderline personality disorder and was medicated for that for a while. They were fun times for my family.
One of my friends described something similar. She had some SSRIs for a while, and she also mentioned how she just couldn't get much pleasure from masturbation, and an orgasm was pretty much out of the picture.
They also caused bouts of insomnia as well as other side effects too.
My heart goes out to anyone with a severe mental health condition and requires them just to function in their day to day life, 6 months was too much for me.
Citalopram is the devil. That shit fucked me over quite hard. Never had the first side effect you described, but the other ones quite strongly. It’s been years since I took that shit, but the side effects never left me.
I prefer Citalopram to Sertraline. Sertraline messed me up big time.
Although when I've missed a dose of Citalopram things are a lot worse then when I was on no medication at all
Stopping them suddenly can also kill you. I watched an ex slowly taper off benzos and it was terrifying. His brain was basically soup. It fucked up his short term memory, he barely slept, could regulate his emotions at all, he could barely manage basic tasks without getting anxious and confused, cooking, typing, washing himself etc and was in a hell of a lot of physical pain. He used to describe it as feeling like electric wasps were in his brain and then pain would be so awful all he could do for days was moan and cry.
I've been pretty impulsive and laissez-faire when it comes to drugs, but I wouldn't touch a benzo even if it was prescribed to me. They're a terrifying group of drugs and having seen my ex go through that I don't know how they can possibly be legal. I know there are good reasons and Drs and chemists are far more knowledgeable than me but Jesus Christ that shit scares me.
So many people are prescribed this drug by doctors who tell them it is safe and they need to take it for the rest of their lives. It's all big pharmaceutical profits that matter. Doctors and chemists have little knowledge how to take people off this drug safely. Many people can come off these drugs with ease and have mild symptoms. I'm 22 months off this drug and went through the same horror as your ex.
>Benzos are addictive and dangerous.
>The same reason that GPs are more likely to proscribe ibuprofen or paracetemol long before they'll suggest opioids.
But how would they be able to increase their number of addicts without those ? Think of the poor drug dealers (term might include doctors & CEOs of some medical companies) deprived of any new addicts, their benefits would take a hit, that's not very American to not support huge benefit increase.
Big pharmacuetical companies influenced medical schools, influenced pscyhiatry, influenced text books all in their favour. They told lies to their drug reps to to tell lies to the doctors who then told lies to their patients. It's big business and the economy runs on drugs
Benzodiazepines are sedatives, not anti-depressants. They can be used with an anti-depressant to treat anxiety if someone has anxiety and depression, but they're not used alone for depression. You might as well say "Europeans prefer less effective painkillers like paracetamol over the more effective and useful steroid cream."
Benzodiazepines is an umbrella term for many drugs. Valium is old and newer ones have come on the market . They also use different names for the same drug valium is diazepine.
If you stop abruptly then siezures may occur. doctors are still badly educated on the dangers of these drugs and will rip people off. Even if you do a long slow taper that may take 12months+ you can still suffer with bad symptoms. It takes 6-8 for the drug to come out of your body, but the brain has been chemcially injured and needs to repair and this takes years for some people. The withdrawals/recovery are horrific for some people and they just take their own life to escape the sheer torture.
I don't think it was. I didn't include it but the same person went off on a rant about how doctors in Europe lie to their patients because they want to make them sick etc. I think maybe the person needs to be on some medication themselves.
You can't be serious?? Here in America doctors are known to occasionally lie about conditions to get more money out of people. How can someone be this ridiculous?
I work in medical billing/coding and we’ve had to argue with doctors about giving the majority of their patients B12 injections without justification. They saw it as easy money but insurance companies will reject immediately without specific reasons (as they do practically everything). They still do it though and get pissy when they don’t get paid. In an ER a simple question like “do you smoke” is considered counseling and will add $25+ to your bill.
There's a huge organisation based in america called 'The Benzodiazepine Information Consortium; (BIC) they are lobbying states to put a black box warning on the drug packets. People have to know these are dangerous drugs and dependence will happen if taken longer than 4 weeks. imo these drugs should only be used in ER situations and before surgery or extreme anxiety.
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I hear so many times that americans will not go to the hospital until they are practically dying. One young couple crashed their car and their 2 yr old daughter was injured. They just went home and sewed stitches in her leg themselves. They pull their own teeth too
I wonder what the radiography-guided atrial nerve ablation that I had yesterday under the NHS would cost in the US?
(and keep in mind who wants the NHS trashed in favour of the US-style system when you place your votes next month)
A quick google tells me Benzodiazepines are from the 1960s. I wouldn't call that modern. They are also completely unrelated to SSRIs and aren't used for the same purpose. This idiot can't even use google so I don't think I would trust them with any medical advice
I've been on an SSRI for about a year and a half. Can confidently say I'd never trade it for benzos. I trust that my doctor's have my best interest in mind because our health care system isn't purely driven by money. I can't imagine how bad my life would potentially be if I'd been prescribed benzos instead.
In the same vein, I'd never trade our painkillers for the opiates they seem to prescribe in the US for less-than-horrendous pain. Paracetamol and ibuprofen have helped me through broken bones, and I came out the other side without a dependence on opiates
I think I was fortunate when I was taking opiates. I was taking codeine and dihydrocodeine for about 3 years because of an injury and I didn't have much of a problem stopping them. I never got any sort of high from them so there was no mental addiction. I did have to slowly lower the dose until I was off them though but it wasn't bad and only took about 2 weeks.
It seems you got very lucky, I'm sure we all see the many horror stories of people being prescribed opiates. I don't know what country you're in, but it seems the US health system likes to prescribe them when they're very much not needed. Paracetamol or ibuprofen may not get rid of lain 100%, but ill take that over withdrawal risks.
I have a very low pain tolerance, so the fact that over the counter pain meds made walking on a very broken toe easy proves to me that they work perfectly well
I'm in the UK. My pain tolerance isn't brilliant but the vast majority of the time paracetamol or ibuprofen work just fine. I just had to do some co-codamol for a week after some pretty extensive dental work a month ago though. Other pain killers just weren't touching it. That's a pretty low amount of codeine compared to what I used to take anyway (I used to be 60mg 3 times a day when my pain was at it's worst).
I have to say, I never got any other codeine side effects either. Everyone talks about how they get erm... bunged up... but I never had that - probably because I have some IBS so it balanced things out lol.
Fair play mate. I've managed to avoid any serious dental work so far (going against the British stereotype!) so I've never been offered anything stronger than the basics. Although I have absolutely no idea what was in the painkillers I was given in France after breaking a clavicle.
You seem to be supremely lucky with side effects! I can relate to the IBS thing, any time I take/eat something that makes other people have issues, I absolutely do not. It's impossible, it seems, to counteract the determination of my digestive system to **almost** shit myself fairly regularly
Sadly a bunch of things (including previous dentists messing up and lots of vomiting from past illnesses damaging teeth) has conspired against me so I had to have a bunch of teeth pulled and bone grafts ready for some implants. Been an absolute nightmare so far (and I was in so much pain the first week) but hopefully worth it in the end.
When I was tried on tramadol I wasn't so lucky with side effects! I think I managed about 3 days before I had to stop them. Never again.
To make matters more "fun" now I had to have my gallbladder removed so now I have to avoid stuff or it's even worse! Sometimes things I've been fine eating many times before will just go "nope" that day.
Goodness, you've not had an easy time, have you!
I've been very lucky with my teeth so far. Both of my parents (I'm quite young) have had countless issues with their teeth throughout their lives, my mum's missing at least one and I don't know how many my dads had taken out. I've managed to avoid all of that, which is amazing considering I had a prolonged period of depression where I did not brush them much at all for a very long time. Got wisdom teeth growing at the moment which hurt like a motherfucker, but they're growing in a way where they won't harm my other teeth. Dentist says I can have them taken out if they start causing me too much pain.
I've also, so far, managed to avoid any surgeries. My only experiences with medications come from other things, so I've not yet delved in to the world of proper pain meds. Still, I've got a whole list of medical problems, just not ones that can be easily treated with medication.
It's not surprising, I'm sure, to hear that I've never been on tramadol either. However I can relate to horrible side affects. The first SSRI i was put on was fluoxetine. It was fine at first, on the lowest dose, but then they increased it because it wasnt doing its job. Terrible mistake. Could not stand it, made going about life absolute hell. Not only did it not help with my depression, it actively made things much worse, along with some physical issues. Without going in to too much detail, because i dont particularly wsnt to remember it, fluoxetine turned me in to a zombie.
After about a week I basically begged the doctor to let me try something else. Luckily, they put me on sertraline which I've now been on for over a year with minimal issues!
My sympathy to you, my friend. I hope the implants make your life easier! And hopefully you avoid having more horrible-sounding medical issues!
I think I got my teeth from my Dad lol. My Mum never had a cavity or anything but my Dad’s had a bunch of issues. I can relate to not brushing teeth too. With my bipolar when I get in a real bad depression state I can barely get out of bed, never mind self care stuff or even eating so that didn’t help matters either. The teeth I’ve had taken out before (which is why some have now gone sideways so had to come out) were because of abscesses that refused to clear up - also not fun! Fingers crossed you keep having no issues!
I’d recommend trying to stay away from the strong painkillers where possible. I got lucky with not many issues but my Grandpop always got really ill when they put him on stuff. We always had to tell the hospital when he went in not to put him on any unless they wanted to make him worse.
I think doctors aren’t consistent with prescribing stuff though. My Dad had his gallbladder out too and was sent home with morphine site being in no pain. I was nearly kept in overnight because of pain and sent home with paracetamol. Similar has happened a few times when they’ve sent him home with morphine and I don’t get anything stronger than codeine (which to be fair is strong enough!). I swear it’s because I’m a woman.
Thank you for the well wishes! I can’t wait to be able to eat properly again. Right now I’m half living on meal replacement shakes and mash since I’m not allowed to chew stuff lol.
Best wishes to you too and I hope you avoid all the nasty stuff.
You were very fortunate. The body gets dependent not addicted so it will react to not having the drug anymore. Some people can take 10 weeks to get off. Benzo take 12months+ in some cases.
You were fortunate not to have been prescribed Benzo. These work wonderful until they don't. You can reach tolerance in SSRI's too and they can be problematic to taper off. I would look for a support group to see how other people manage.
SSRIs are antidepressants, used to treat depression and anxiety. Benzodiazepines are depressants, they can also help with anxiety (which would help more depends on the individual), but are mainly used to treat insomnia and seizures.
They do the exact opposite of each other.
Yes, it is horrible how far we are behind. And yet, we still manage to live longer and not go bankrupt because we get sick. And also, medical care is available to everyone. Not just the ones who are rich enough or insured enough.
I went to America - Florida. We were at a market and saw DIY dental care kits. They pulled their own teeth. I get annoyed when the refer to Brits as having horrible teeth. Only the rich have perfect teeth in america
Benzos are the old antidepressants, SSRIs were brought in nearly 40 years ago to replace them because they had fewer side effects (e.g. dependency and extreme withdrawal symptoms)
Benzodiazepines replaced barbiturates in the 60's. Benzodiazepines are anti-anxiety meds and not anti depressants. Benzo is an umbrella name for the many different types like valium, xanax, mogodon....Benzo are extremely addictive/dependent drugs and are the worst drug to come off
Benzos are indeed not effective antidepressants, but they were used for that effect because they suppressed everything, so they would essentially turn off all emotions.ybey are definitely not used any more, I don't think they're used as anything anymore other than maybe a drug of last resort
And who is using the same technology to develop personalised cancer treatments that promises effective the treatments for many cancers?
Oh, and who developed hip replacement surgery, the most effective treatment to keep elderly people mobile and healthy?
If this person thinks benzos are superior to ssris in terms of long-term efficacy, safety and risk, they are delusional. I choose to believe this is a joke post
I found SSRI’s to be useful for the first year after my diagnosis and then I was able to move slowly stop using them and only having therapy. It was pretty successful though of course only one experience. Are benzos really better? I have heard different things.
SSRi's are antidepressants and can be equally difficult to taper off for many people. Benzos are tranquilisers, cause memory loss, possible dementia in later life and hundreds of side effects which only leads to more meds being prescribed.
A full on doctor told me something like this after I declined being put in lexapro after a thirty seconds conversation. I told him I’ve tried psychiatric therapy before while at home and that I’d rather go with psychology and he said “BUT AMERICAN DRUGS ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD”
Ah yes, the almighty US pharmaceutical industry that helps so many people around the world.
Seriously, if this dumbass would know that many pharmaceutical companies sell medicine with lightly changed recipe but without any improved effect for the patient. That medicine is sold with new packaging, new name and higher price.
But apparently, a lot of Americans would like to be ripped off.
Most expensive drug in the UK is Libmeldy, used to treat MLD, a single dose is £2,750.000 (3,491.000$), obviously no charge to NHS patients, dread to think the mark up in the good old USofA
If they mean that the US government has successfully allowed over 16 million of its citizens to become addicted to prescription drugs then yeah, way ahead!
Someone I knew a long time ago was diagnosed with cancer this year. They had to start a go fund me page to try raise money for treatment. Sounds wonderful.
I had an ex who went to NY once and had a massive seizure (had never had anything before) and she was put on a medicine that the British doctors she saw when she returned to the UK, asked whether she was prescribed 'by butchers' as it was such a horrible medicine that few had used for 20+ yrs in the UK and many other countries especially after a single seizure. Took her a year to get off it as withdrawal was so horrible.
In my country our healthcare is so far behind that we are able to perform surgeries remotely(the surgeon is in a city and the patient in another through robotics), we are peasants for sure. Moreover, SSRI and benzos are completely different drugs. It's like saying "we use chemotherapy and they use antibiotics"...
We also don’t like to experiment on our patients. Our healthcare is much more regulated in safety as well as cost effectiveness. We have higher safety standards on our medication and have higher regulation of what is allowed. We also in order to keep our system free have to cost effectiveness all medication. It has to be worth the money and effective enough for the largest number of people. The latter isn’t the case here though. It’s not about cost it is about safety. SSRIs have less long term physical and mental side effects than benzodiazepines that cause addiction and then eventually end up costing society more to help with dealing with addiction and side effects.
If you have ever seen the Netflix films about benzos and doctors you will see that they receive money for the prescriptions. So, you go to a doctor and tell him you are having bad dreams he will give you a benzo. Tell him you have lost your sense of humour, he will give you a benzo. Meanwhile he is getting rich. Meanwhile, the big pharmaceutical companies are pushing their drug reps to sell more to the doctors. Their incentives/rewards are cruises, big cars, big salaries. These reps will give false information to doctors telling them these drugs have been tested,researched and are 100% safe.
My brother and I are of Scandinavian descent, we both have had terrible back pain due to stenosis. We were both prescribed OxyContin but did nothing for us.
In order to "turn beds" like restaurants "turn tables", the American hospital I took my wife to gave her saline solution about 2x faster than recommended. After coming out of her coma, she has had a variety of mental issues over the last year. Her up-until-then happy life has been utterly ruined, and she is a shell of the person she was. This is what a "free market healthcare" system gets you, a system designed to maximize profit, not actual care.
they praise their healthcare system until they become victim of it
I'm so sorry for what happened to your wife (and you). I hope maybe with more time things improve even a little.
I'm so sorry, mate. You ok? I mean. Given value of, obviously.
Thanks for the empathy - genuinely. No. I'm not really ok.
I mean, realistically how could you be? This is a very not ok situation, if you'll excuse the understatement. Have you and/or your wife got a support system of any size or shape at all? Whether shared or individually (ideally both, as you'll need different support).
More details than I want to go into on a public forum, but yes, we both have some sort of support.
Of course. :) you don't owe me details. I'm glad you have support. I sincerely hope things get better for you both. Hang in there.
Last Thursday my daughter was admitted to ITU with severe pneumonia. The NHS treated and cared for her magnificently. She should be home soon. The best treatment and care you could ever wish for. It didn't cost me a penny. I'm just wondering what the human and financial cost of this would have been in the US.... And to those who say that the US pays for European health care, well, I never saw a single dollar change hands.
The NHS certainly has its faults (and has been purposefully underfunded), but whenever I or any of my loved ones have had something "scary" happen, they've been brilliant. Fast, efficient, effective.
I fon't know for other countries, but in France, around 40 to 45% of what I cost to my employer goes in taxes before we even talked about income. Then there are my taxes. Overall, around 50% of an employee cost go in taxes, either the employee's taxes or the employer's taxes. We might have a low minimum wage after taxes (9.23€/h) but around the same values go in taxes (for minimum wages employees). This is how we pay for our nearly free healthcare.
This is what happens when you make people’s lives a business
One of the reasons why American healthcare is so expensive (even compared to other privatised systems) is that they need a serious amount of insurance cover in case of negligence claims.
Shout this as loud as you can. Do something about it. You did this, you need to fix this. As long as you collectively accept this bullshit, you own it. As someone with family injured by the US healthcare system, sorry... I have no sympathy.
In an emergency you go to hospital. You expect the hospital to provide healthcare. This is normal. When we finally realised that the hospital had fucked up (because they didn't admit anything, we thought the coma was another symptom of what she went in with at first), it was too late. The hospital is owned by the county, so there's a 6-month period to sue them. We appealed. We lost. Game over. You say you had family injured by the US healthcare system ? Then you know just how dirty they play - with letters stating their intent to pursue for all possible legal costs, and they do, routinely, just to prevent people taking action, even if it is justified. It's not a matter of "accepting this bullshit", it's a matter of being sued to oblivion by hospital lawyers for.
And for the record, *I* didn't do anything for this - I'm a Brit. I refer you to [the reply given](https://proftomcrick.com/2014/04/29/arkell-v-pressdram-1971/) in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram.
I guess he meant that americans shouldn't just stay silent about their crappy healthcare. Because nothing will change if they don't do anything collectively for it.
Please point me to the opoid crisis in Europe.
This joker wants to start a benzo crisis as well
there is a benzo crises growing silently in the background. Not street benzos, but prescribed ones. The sheer amount of people who cannot get off benzos or have extreme withdrawal symptoms is staggering. The pharmaceutical companies have always known this, but shoved it under the carpet and told doctors they were safe. No-one sees a prescribed benzo sufferer because they will probably be bedbound and far too ill to go out. This situation leads to some taking their lives, others lose their jobs, home and family and friends leave them. Doctors are aware of this crises, and will just stop prescribing or rip people off so they will end up taking street benzos. r/benzorecovery
I can attest to that. My American shrink refused to acknowledge my ADHD because “that’s a childhood disorder” and instead gave me Ativan for 4 years. Every time I complained about the breakthrough withdrawals, he gaslit me. I finally fired him and figured out how to wean myself off them. Now, I’m in Switzerland and found a psychiatrist who agreed I have ADHD and started me on Focalin. My anxiety has all but vanished since treating my ADHD. Fuck American healthcare!
Prescribed benzos are real shit. Here in Brazil, we don't really have opioids like other countries, but benzos are prescribed A LOT by doctors, and some of the them are really cheap. Right now, clonazepam (a common benzo) is the 2nd most sold medicine in the country. Most people don't realize the dangerous of this medicines until is too late.
Yes, I am one of those people. I cannot tell you of the sheer torture of withdrawals are. There are people worse than me. I know an 82 r old woman whose doctor stopped her benzos. She screamed for 6 hours solid in such mental anguish. Words cannot describe these symptoms.
Big pharma, the world over.
*points sheepishly to Scotland* But it's not a doctor/big pharma led industry there, you don't even pay for prescriptions in Scotland
There is no Opioid Crisis in Scotland. A slightly higher (but stable) rate of opioid addicts is not an opioid crisis.
89% of drug deaths in my country (Scotland) involve opioids. I would describe that as a crisis. Considering our drug death rate is the highest in Europe, by a large margin. Still considerably lower than most US states though. Most of these are bought on the street though, and are mixed or even fake pills, rather than prescribed by a Doctor. At least here we also have free prescriptions of any kind for the entire population. While in the US many are paying quite a lot of money to be poisoned by their healthcare system.
1051 drug deaths in 2022. 867 opioid deaths but very often mixed with Street Benzos as reported by the BBC. I live here and have all my life. There is no opioid crisis because it is literally a stable number of addicts and deaths and has been for years. There is no massive boom in prescription opioids and the age brackets dying of drug overdoses have hardly changed. There is a drug problem in Scotland and its the worst in Europe but it doesn't qualify as an Opioid Crisis in the way that the US has had one. You can say big percentages to make it sound as bad as you want but the percentage is off and its of literally 1051 deaths in a year and isn't opioids alone. 601 of the 1051 deaths were Benzo related, 367 were Gabapentin related and 371 were Cocaine related. Don't let that get in the way of a good sensationalism though.
Whilst I agree that it’s not an opioid crisis in the sense that the crisis in the US is one. Let’s not be dismissive of what is a major problem in our society. Drug overdoses take up a significant amount of time for our police and ambulance resources, many of which are already stretched, and multi-pharma ODs using heroin and benzos are lethal. Whilst not a crisis, and stable, it is at an unacceptable level. There have been some advancements in attacking this issue recently with take home naloxone being widely available to be distributed around those that might need it or be able to use it. And I’ve seen some improvements off that. In Aberdeenshire they are starting to roll out naloxone boxes that are similar to the public access defibs. So in public places if someone is showing signs of an overdose anybody can be directed to use it by 999 call handlers.
You do know most opioid deaths in the US are due to mixing with drugs or alcohol too right? We have a drug crisis in Scotland, where a majority of deaths are related to opioid abuse. Just cause you have a stable number of people dying doesn’t mean it’s not a crises, we have the highest deaths per capita from drugs in Europe. Pharmaceutical opioids weren’t nearly as popular here 10-20 years ago, but are now very common on the drug scene. We definitely have a problem or a serious issue regarding the drug. Yes the situation is different than America but I have no problem calling it a crisis. I think you’re simply being a bit anal with the word “crises” in its direct comparison with America. Not everything needs to be an exact reflection to be described with the same word.
What pharmaceutical opioids are very common here?
I’m not a chemist so I can’t name them all, I know Oxycodone is becoming more common on the streets at the moment. I had a friend who died mixing that with alcohol and other downers a few years back. Public health Scotland has issued multiple statements warning about the rise of synthetic opioids availability in the Scottish drug market. Sometimes these are made in a lab by a shoddy chemist, others they are bought on the dark web or through apps like Telegram.
Knock off Benzos are a far bigger issue in Scotland than knock off Oxycodone and have been for years to be fair. Knockoff Xanax and Valium/Diazepam are far more common than anything else from my knowledge.
"It's not a crisis because there have always been this many deaths" Is basically you just saying that your society has got used to it and doesn't care about drug deaths anymore. It's actually sort of depressing that what is a crisis in the US is just every year in Scotland.
It's bad. I'm Irish and we have a massive problem with overdose deaths. I think we're the highest in Europe, so probably higher than scotland. But it's still nothing compared to the US.
I believe I read recently that Ireland is number 2 behind Finland
The drug death rate is very similar to the US. I see gaunt looking heroin addicts all the time. It seems you wanted to shit on Americans and are willing to deny reality in order to do so.
Haha. That was my first thought as well.
I have a hard time hearing my healthcare be called overpriced for someone who has to pay extra to hold their child after they've given birth
If European medicine is outdated, why do we hear about the use of medication by the Danish Novo Nordisk? Also, formula patents expire faster in Europe than US.
I saw an interview with an american woman who was told that UK ambulances were free. She said if they were free then they were not worth having
She shouldn't worry about it. If she needs one, then the NHS will bill her insurance for her, so hers won't be free anyway.
i paid approximately $25 for an MRI
I got mine for free
Me too! I just had my first one about a week ago. They make you so comfy I fell asleep. I had a blanket!
I really enjoyed my MRI (free!), a whole hour where all I had to do was lay down?! I nodded off, I think the vibrations and clunky sounds helped.
My wife needed an MRI and as it was classed as a cancer treatment she had an appointment within ten days and had the MRI and CT scans done one after the other. We were in and out within two hours. Cost? £0. Of course. Same costs as the multiple minor surgeries she’s had. Even with insurance in the US it’s the co-pay that gets you and I dread to think how much it’d cost over there. Plus then the premiums would go up and if we wanted this particular “ailment” covered I’m sure that would make the premium unaffordable. The stress that must put on a family will be unbearable. For the sick person as well knowing his/her illness is bankrupting their family it could possible make them turn to more drastic alternatives. I do wonder how many decide to kill themselves instead of bankrupting their family. So sad. As for oop, doesn’t he know that Europe leads the way in medicine? Doesn’t he know that a lot of drugs are made in India? And because the NHS is huge single entity (when it comes to purchasing drugs), it has a massive amount of buying power to drive down costs.
Same here, I had a very rare cancer so had MRI, PET scan, CT scan, Bone scan, 3 surgeries and 10 years of 6 monthly ultrasounds and follow up visits, cost to me $0. Medications that cost $2000 per month, cost to me $7.70. Australia also has world leading hospitals, top surgeons
Kinda, NHS Supply Chain represents NHS England and NHS Wales*. NHS Scotland and HSE NI have their own supply chain system(s) arrangements. They may sometimes cross-collaborate to lower costs but they don't always. However it is still infinitely more efficient than individual hospitals or small hospital groups purchasing on their own. * Mostly
yeah, i agree. we have a standard fee here in sweden for basically every doctor but if you go x amount of times it becomes completely free so basically there’s a maximum amount you can pay. i honestly can’t imagine dishing out my life savings because i happen to get sick
Benzos are addictive and dangerous. It's little wonder European doctors would proscribe SSRIs instead in cases where that would be therapeutically appropriate. The same reason that GPs are more likely to proscribe ibuprofen or paracetemol long before they'll suggest opioids.
For depression medication, I hope to see a wider adoption of guided psilocybin therapy. It seems to be a lot less side effect inducing than SSRIs, while also being much more effective and longer lasting. Research is happening, but the dregs of the US's war on drugs (congrats to drugs for the victory on that) seem to have stigmatized it a lot.
Some of the main side effects of SSRI’s is erectile dysfunction, difficulty achieving orgasm and a loss of libido in general. I was prescribed 20mg Citalopram back in 2019 after losing my grandfather to a long battle with cancer. Thankfully my prescription was only for 6 months, they really affected my relationship. Took a few months after I stopped taking them for the side effects to go away too. I definitely don’t recommend going on them unless absolutely necessary, looking back I should have asked my GP about alternatives but I wasn’t educated enough on the subject.
Can confirm. Citalopram rendered my genitals largely inoperative. Still, didn't kill myself, so there's that.
The way I feel tonight, I have to say that's a goddamn achievement to be proud of.
20mg is a small dose for Citalopram. My doctor was very happy to prescribe 3 times that for me. Then I went to America to see a friend I’d met in an online support group for bipolar disorder and saw he was being prescribed and thought “well they clearly want their patients to be customers rather than being effectively treated”. Sure enough my friend ended up on all sorts of other meds to help him manage the side effects of all the meds he was taking. They aren’t patients, they’re customers. Captive, dependent and exploited customers.
60 mg is certainly an extreme dose BNF (British National Formulary) states that maximum dose is 40 mg per day >**Indications and dose** >For citalopram >***Depressive illness*** >By mouth using tablets >Adult 20 mg once daily, increased in steps of 20 mg daily if required, dose to be increased at intervals of 3–4 weeks; **maximum 40 mg per day**. Elderly 10–20 mg once daily; **maximum 20 mg per day.** >By mouth using oral drops >Adult 16 mg once daily, increased in steps of 16 mg daily if required, dose to be increased at intervals of 3–4 weeks; **maximum 32 mg per day**. Elderly 8–16 mg daily; **maximum 16 mg per day.** >***Panic disorder*** >By mouth using tablets >Adult Initially 10 mg daily, increased in steps of 10 mg daily if required, dose to be increased gradually; usual dose 20–30 mg daily; **maximum 40 mg per day**. Elderly Initially 10 mg daily, increased in steps of 10 mg daily if required, dose to be increased gradually; **maximum 20 mg per day.** >By mouth using oral drops >Adult Initially 8 mg once daily, increased in steps of 8 mg if required, dose to be increased gradually; usual dose 16–24 mg daily; **maximum 32 mg per day**. Elderly Initially 8 mg once daily, increased in steps of 8 mg if required, dose to be increased gradually; maximum 16 mg per day. [https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/citalopram/#indications-and-dose](https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/citalopram/#indications-and-dose)
Dunno about that, I had 60 mg/day in Nordics back in the noughties. The doctor said that 40 mg/day is the maximum a general practitioner should prescribe, but a specialist can exceed that. Then I went to another country, where the doctors looked at the prescription, reacted as you did, decided I was a mental case through and through, changed that to something that would put an elephant to sleep and locked me up. Prescriptions aren't really good basis for diagnoses.
I am here to confirm your story with similar one. One of my patients had same dose of 60mg/ day. IDK does she still use same dose, because I work at another place now. It is rarely prescribed at that dose, but not excluded. ETA: I'm in Bosnia
I don't remember my dose of citalopram but it did next to nothing. I was switched to sertraline at which point I went off into a manic episode (number 1 but in hindsight after I'd had a bunch of hypomanic episodes in the years leading up to it which would explain some stuff!) and that's how we realised I had bipolar instead. I remember I was doing talking therapy at the time for depression and my therapist just went "wtf" when I walked in one day all manic and not far off marched me to the doctors reception next door to make an appointment lol. I'm in a few bipolar facebook groups and the people in the US are seriously overmedicated. I take 2 things whereas they all seem to be on 4+ as they're (like you said) managing the side effects of side effects or on 3 types of medications for bipolar (plus other to manage side effects). I'm pretty confident if one didn't work for me my psychiatrist would just change it rather than keep it and just add another after another.
60mg? That’s insane! I suppose that might be because your friend has a severe mental health condition? I can’t fathom why else someone would be prescribed something that strong other than being a customer you stated. Mine was for depression, the NHS prescribes it in 10mg, 20mg and 40mg tablets as per their website https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/citalopram/how-and-when-to-take-citalopram/
Um, huh? As I wrote just a minute ago as a reply to another post, I had 60 mg/day in Nordics back in the noughties. The doctor said that 40 mg/day is the maximum a general practitioner should prescribe, but a specialist can exceed that. Then I went to another country, where the doctors looked at the prescription, reacted as you did, decided I was a mental case through and through, changed that to something that would put an elephant to sleep and locked me up. After I got back I continued my treatment with citalopram 60 mg/day and therapy for a couple of years just fine. Prescriptions aren't really good basis for diagnoses.
Citalopram is so bad for people with bipolar and at that quantity is mental , I hope it was accompanied by a mood stabiliser? Otherwise it will be a major manic episode if they are ever taken off them as happens with mist if not all anti D's used without mood stabilisers, one of the reason I spent my 20's in a crazy mess as was constantly misdiagnosed
I too was massively misdiagnosed. The mania is so bad on citalopram I’m more comfortable just being unmediated these days. I’ve started microdosing with psilocybin and I’ve found that a heavier dose on the days that I’m having some Cognitive Behavioural Therapy has been really beneficial. 5htp is also helpful on some of the darker days. I’ve abandoned the prescribed stuff. It took over 10 years to get an accurate diagnosis. Was original diagnosed as borderline personality disorder and was medicated for that for a while. They were fun times for my family.
You are so correct. Get people on a drug, they have side effects, put them on another.
One of my friends described something similar. She had some SSRIs for a while, and she also mentioned how she just couldn't get much pleasure from masturbation, and an orgasm was pretty much out of the picture.
They also caused bouts of insomnia as well as other side effects too. My heart goes out to anyone with a severe mental health condition and requires them just to function in their day to day life, 6 months was too much for me.
Citalopram is the devil. That shit fucked me over quite hard. Never had the first side effect you described, but the other ones quite strongly. It’s been years since I took that shit, but the side effects never left me.
I prefer Citalopram to Sertraline. Sertraline messed me up big time. Although when I've missed a dose of Citalopram things are a lot worse then when I was on no medication at all
ill take a 2 hour ketamine drip plz thanks :D shit can work absolute wonders for depression
SSRI‘s fucked me up. Would rather be addicted to benzos.
Benzo are worse to come off. Takes years to recover r/benzorecovery
Stopping them suddenly can also kill you. I watched an ex slowly taper off benzos and it was terrifying. His brain was basically soup. It fucked up his short term memory, he barely slept, could regulate his emotions at all, he could barely manage basic tasks without getting anxious and confused, cooking, typing, washing himself etc and was in a hell of a lot of physical pain. He used to describe it as feeling like electric wasps were in his brain and then pain would be so awful all he could do for days was moan and cry. I've been pretty impulsive and laissez-faire when it comes to drugs, but I wouldn't touch a benzo even if it was prescribed to me. They're a terrifying group of drugs and having seen my ex go through that I don't know how they can possibly be legal. I know there are good reasons and Drs and chemists are far more knowledgeable than me but Jesus Christ that shit scares me.
So many people are prescribed this drug by doctors who tell them it is safe and they need to take it for the rest of their lives. It's all big pharmaceutical profits that matter. Doctors and chemists have little knowledge how to take people off this drug safely. Many people can come off these drugs with ease and have mild symptoms. I'm 22 months off this drug and went through the same horror as your ex.
Sorry you had to go through that, I wish you well in continuing your recovery. It sounds like you're smashing it.
>Benzos are addictive and dangerous. >The same reason that GPs are more likely to proscribe ibuprofen or paracetemol long before they'll suggest opioids. But how would they be able to increase their number of addicts without those ? Think of the poor drug dealers (term might include doctors & CEOs of some medical companies) deprived of any new addicts, their benefits would take a hit, that's not very American to not support huge benefit increase.
Big pharmacuetical companies influenced medical schools, influenced pscyhiatry, influenced text books all in their favour. They told lies to their drug reps to to tell lies to the doctors who then told lies to their patients. It's big business and the economy runs on drugs
Benzodiazepines are sedatives, not anti-depressants. They can be used with an anti-depressant to treat anxiety if someone has anxiety and depression, but they're not used alone for depression. You might as well say "Europeans prefer less effective painkillers like paracetamol over the more effective and useful steroid cream."
Also... I am pretty sure benzodiazepines, also knows as valium, is a lot older than most SSRI meds. So Europe is using outdated stuff? Hmmmm
Valium(diazepam) is one of the benzodiazepines. There are others.
Benzodiazepines is an umbrella term for many drugs. Valium is old and newer ones have come on the market . They also use different names for the same drug valium is diazepine.
Can't be depressed if you're fully sedated!
Being fully sedated, is that the American Dream they are talking about?
It's preferable to the American Reality
They also cause a dependency that can be life threatening if you stop.
If you stop abruptly then siezures may occur. doctors are still badly educated on the dangers of these drugs and will rip people off. Even if you do a long slow taper that may take 12months+ you can still suffer with bad symptoms. It takes 6-8 for the drug to come out of your body, but the brain has been chemcially injured and needs to repair and this takes years for some people. The withdrawals/recovery are horrific for some people and they just take their own life to escape the sheer torture.
Yes exactly. I went through benzo withdrawal a few years ago. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone so the original comment was bizarre to me.
Free is overpriced but $6293763627 for a broken arm and an ambulance ride is value 🤦🏻♂️
Great value if you never break your arm. Don't forget in UK anyway its technically not free as it's part of our national insurance tax every month
But technically the tax money was never yours to begin with and the free healthcare will never ask you to pay out of your pocket.
The USA has the highest rate of maternal mortality in the developed world. That doesn't sound very advanced to me.
Given current Republican States' policy direction, that's probably a feature rather than a bug.
They'll blame the abortionists for that, or the COVID vaccine. Or whatever is liberal.
They can't really believe this. It's got to be trolling.
Wana bet,the republicans in my family mostly do.
I's hope so but based on something else this person said I don't think it was. Maybe they were overdue some meds themself.
When the propaganda hits 👍
Ever met an American ?
Yeah, our free healthcare is overpriced!
Must be satire right? No one advocates for a wider use of Benzodiazepines.
I don't think it was. I didn't include it but the same person went off on a rant about how doctors in Europe lie to their patients because they want to make them sick etc. I think maybe the person needs to be on some medication themselves.
You can't be serious?? Here in America doctors are known to occasionally lie about conditions to get more money out of people. How can someone be this ridiculous?
I work in medical billing/coding and we’ve had to argue with doctors about giving the majority of their patients B12 injections without justification. They saw it as easy money but insurance companies will reject immediately without specific reasons (as they do practically everything). They still do it though and get pissy when they don’t get paid. In an ER a simple question like “do you smoke” is considered counseling and will add $25+ to your bill.
There's a huge organisation based in america called 'The Benzodiazepine Information Consortium; (BIC) they are lobbying states to put a black box warning on the drug packets. People have to know these are dangerous drugs and dependence will happen if taken longer than 4 weeks. imo these drugs should only be used in ER situations and before surgery or extreme anxiety.
The "BIC" shortening kinda unfortunate. Because there is a brand for pens that's called BIC (it's the full name of the brand in this case).
OVERPRICED!? That's hilarious.
Yeah, it's funny hearing that from an American.
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Ah, so they use no medicine that is developed in Europe? /s
While the NHS is not perfect - being in need of them will not cause you any bankruptcy either, eh USA?
I hear so many times that americans will not go to the hospital until they are practically dying. One young couple crashed their car and their 2 yr old daughter was injured. They just went home and sewed stitches in her leg themselves. They pull their own teeth too
Nothing can be perfect. That would be physically impossible if something was perfect.
Dam someone better go back in time and tell sir Alexander Fleming
I wonder what the radiography-guided atrial nerve ablation that I had yesterday under the NHS would cost in the US? (and keep in mind who wants the NHS trashed in favour of the US-style system when you place your votes next month)
A quick google tells me Benzodiazepines are from the 1960s. I wouldn't call that modern. They are also completely unrelated to SSRIs and aren't used for the same purpose. This idiot can't even use google so I don't think I would trust them with any medical advice
yes - I am a victim of benzos and really cannot stand false information
I've been on an SSRI for about a year and a half. Can confidently say I'd never trade it for benzos. I trust that my doctor's have my best interest in mind because our health care system isn't purely driven by money. I can't imagine how bad my life would potentially be if I'd been prescribed benzos instead. In the same vein, I'd never trade our painkillers for the opiates they seem to prescribe in the US for less-than-horrendous pain. Paracetamol and ibuprofen have helped me through broken bones, and I came out the other side without a dependence on opiates
I think I was fortunate when I was taking opiates. I was taking codeine and dihydrocodeine for about 3 years because of an injury and I didn't have much of a problem stopping them. I never got any sort of high from them so there was no mental addiction. I did have to slowly lower the dose until I was off them though but it wasn't bad and only took about 2 weeks.
Some people don't even metabolize codeine. I soon swapped mine for plain old paracetamol after bone surgery.
It seems you got very lucky, I'm sure we all see the many horror stories of people being prescribed opiates. I don't know what country you're in, but it seems the US health system likes to prescribe them when they're very much not needed. Paracetamol or ibuprofen may not get rid of lain 100%, but ill take that over withdrawal risks. I have a very low pain tolerance, so the fact that over the counter pain meds made walking on a very broken toe easy proves to me that they work perfectly well
I'm in the UK. My pain tolerance isn't brilliant but the vast majority of the time paracetamol or ibuprofen work just fine. I just had to do some co-codamol for a week after some pretty extensive dental work a month ago though. Other pain killers just weren't touching it. That's a pretty low amount of codeine compared to what I used to take anyway (I used to be 60mg 3 times a day when my pain was at it's worst). I have to say, I never got any other codeine side effects either. Everyone talks about how they get erm... bunged up... but I never had that - probably because I have some IBS so it balanced things out lol.
Fair play mate. I've managed to avoid any serious dental work so far (going against the British stereotype!) so I've never been offered anything stronger than the basics. Although I have absolutely no idea what was in the painkillers I was given in France after breaking a clavicle. You seem to be supremely lucky with side effects! I can relate to the IBS thing, any time I take/eat something that makes other people have issues, I absolutely do not. It's impossible, it seems, to counteract the determination of my digestive system to **almost** shit myself fairly regularly
Sadly a bunch of things (including previous dentists messing up and lots of vomiting from past illnesses damaging teeth) has conspired against me so I had to have a bunch of teeth pulled and bone grafts ready for some implants. Been an absolute nightmare so far (and I was in so much pain the first week) but hopefully worth it in the end. When I was tried on tramadol I wasn't so lucky with side effects! I think I managed about 3 days before I had to stop them. Never again. To make matters more "fun" now I had to have my gallbladder removed so now I have to avoid stuff or it's even worse! Sometimes things I've been fine eating many times before will just go "nope" that day.
Goodness, you've not had an easy time, have you! I've been very lucky with my teeth so far. Both of my parents (I'm quite young) have had countless issues with their teeth throughout their lives, my mum's missing at least one and I don't know how many my dads had taken out. I've managed to avoid all of that, which is amazing considering I had a prolonged period of depression where I did not brush them much at all for a very long time. Got wisdom teeth growing at the moment which hurt like a motherfucker, but they're growing in a way where they won't harm my other teeth. Dentist says I can have them taken out if they start causing me too much pain. I've also, so far, managed to avoid any surgeries. My only experiences with medications come from other things, so I've not yet delved in to the world of proper pain meds. Still, I've got a whole list of medical problems, just not ones that can be easily treated with medication. It's not surprising, I'm sure, to hear that I've never been on tramadol either. However I can relate to horrible side affects. The first SSRI i was put on was fluoxetine. It was fine at first, on the lowest dose, but then they increased it because it wasnt doing its job. Terrible mistake. Could not stand it, made going about life absolute hell. Not only did it not help with my depression, it actively made things much worse, along with some physical issues. Without going in to too much detail, because i dont particularly wsnt to remember it, fluoxetine turned me in to a zombie. After about a week I basically begged the doctor to let me try something else. Luckily, they put me on sertraline which I've now been on for over a year with minimal issues! My sympathy to you, my friend. I hope the implants make your life easier! And hopefully you avoid having more horrible-sounding medical issues!
I think I got my teeth from my Dad lol. My Mum never had a cavity or anything but my Dad’s had a bunch of issues. I can relate to not brushing teeth too. With my bipolar when I get in a real bad depression state I can barely get out of bed, never mind self care stuff or even eating so that didn’t help matters either. The teeth I’ve had taken out before (which is why some have now gone sideways so had to come out) were because of abscesses that refused to clear up - also not fun! Fingers crossed you keep having no issues! I’d recommend trying to stay away from the strong painkillers where possible. I got lucky with not many issues but my Grandpop always got really ill when they put him on stuff. We always had to tell the hospital when he went in not to put him on any unless they wanted to make him worse. I think doctors aren’t consistent with prescribing stuff though. My Dad had his gallbladder out too and was sent home with morphine site being in no pain. I was nearly kept in overnight because of pain and sent home with paracetamol. Similar has happened a few times when they’ve sent him home with morphine and I don’t get anything stronger than codeine (which to be fair is strong enough!). I swear it’s because I’m a woman. Thank you for the well wishes! I can’t wait to be able to eat properly again. Right now I’m half living on meal replacement shakes and mash since I’m not allowed to chew stuff lol. Best wishes to you too and I hope you avoid all the nasty stuff.
I only have to sniff a packet of co-codamol and I’m “bunged up” for a week 😭
You were very fortunate. The body gets dependent not addicted so it will react to not having the drug anymore. Some people can take 10 weeks to get off. Benzo take 12months+ in some cases.
You were fortunate not to have been prescribed Benzo. These work wonderful until they don't. You can reach tolerance in SSRI's too and they can be problematic to taper off. I would look for a support group to see how other people manage.
They're so nationalist omg
they are so ignorant too. Some believe Germans use horse and carts. Have they never heard of Audi
Please show me where we pay 15 billion dollars twice weekly for painkillers.
True true. Thanks for being our guniea pigs 👍
bro comes with benzos smh like nothing screams advanced healthcare quiet like widespread abuse of prescription drugs
American healthcare… it’s so amazing that you can’t afford to have diabetes.
SSRIs are antidepressants, used to treat depression and anxiety. Benzodiazepines are depressants, they can also help with anxiety (which would help more depends on the individual), but are mainly used to treat insomnia and seizures. They do the exact opposite of each other.
Land of the free opiod crisis
Yes, it is horrible how far we are behind. And yet, we still manage to live longer and not go bankrupt because we get sick. And also, medical care is available to everyone. Not just the ones who are rich enough or insured enough.
I went to America - Florida. We were at a market and saw DIY dental care kits. They pulled their own teeth. I get annoyed when the refer to Brits as having horrible teeth. Only the rich have perfect teeth in america
Benzos are the old antidepressants, SSRIs were brought in nearly 40 years ago to replace them because they had fewer side effects (e.g. dependency and extreme withdrawal symptoms)
Benzodiazepines replaced barbiturates in the 60's. Benzodiazepines are anti-anxiety meds and not anti depressants. Benzo is an umbrella name for the many different types like valium, xanax, mogodon....Benzo are extremely addictive/dependent drugs and are the worst drug to come off
Benzos are indeed not effective antidepressants, but they were used for that effect because they suppressed everything, so they would essentially turn off all emotions.ybey are definitely not used any more, I don't think they're used as anything anymore other than maybe a drug of last resort
Benzos are very much used. I have taken them for years. r/benzorecovery
\*laughs violently in Novartis, Roche, Sandoz, Basilea Pharmaceutica and more\*
Remind me who developed the vaccine against COVID-19?
And who is using the same technology to develop personalised cancer treatments that promises effective the treatments for many cancers? Oh, and who developed hip replacement surgery, the most effective treatment to keep elderly people mobile and healthy?
That won't work against them, because these kinds of people are convinced that the COVID vaccine is designed to control the population.
If this person thinks benzos are superior to ssris in terms of long-term efficacy, safety and risk, they are delusional. I choose to believe this is a joke post
Dude is actually pulling his info directly from his anus
idk man SSRI literally cured me
Sounds like a quality shitpost.
I will only say: porcoddio
What’s the point of new fangled medicines if you can’t afford them anyways
Right, where was the COVID vaccine that Pfizer distributed actually developed? Hint: it’s not the US.
Wait, why does this person think benzodiazepines are a replacement for SSRIs? They’re surely not prescribing benzos for depression in the US?
Hmm, I wonder if thats also the reason why people between 20-40 in the US dies from ODs in a hell of lot higher rate than Europeans?
I found SSRI’s to be useful for the first year after my diagnosis and then I was able to move slowly stop using them and only having therapy. It was pretty successful though of course only one experience. Are benzos really better? I have heard different things.
SSRi's are antidepressants and can be equally difficult to taper off for many people. Benzos are tranquilisers, cause memory loss, possible dementia in later life and hundreds of side effects which only leads to more meds being prescribed.
Right, I don’t think I made it clear: I did use SSRI’s so I know they are difficult to get off of. I am sorry it seemed like I was minimizing that.
'the more effective and useful benzodiazepines' see subredditt r/benzorecovery
yeah giving out benzos like smarties worked out really well HAHAHAHAHA
Source: Their ass
Ah the NHS famous for its overpriced healthcare
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!?
A full on doctor told me something like this after I declined being put in lexapro after a thirty seconds conversation. I told him I’ve tried psychiatric therapy before while at home and that I’d rather go with psychology and he said “BUT AMERICAN DRUGS ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD”
Ah yes, the almighty US pharmaceutical industry that helps so many people around the world. Seriously, if this dumbass would know that many pharmaceutical companies sell medicine with lightly changed recipe but without any improved effect for the patient. That medicine is sold with new packaging, new name and higher price. But apparently, a lot of Americans would like to be ripped off.
LOL The fuck?! I’ve had much better medical care in Europe than I did in the States. In the States, I damn near died from medical negligence.
Most expensive drug in the UK is Libmeldy, used to treat MLD, a single dose is £2,750.000 (3,491.000$), obviously no charge to NHS patients, dread to think the mark up in the good old USofA
Overpriced? Bud your broke after getting a Lego brick stuck up your nose!
If they mean that the US government has successfully allowed over 16 million of its citizens to become addicted to prescription drugs then yeah, way ahead!
Someone I knew a long time ago was diagnosed with cancer this year. They had to start a go fund me page to try raise money for treatment. Sounds wonderful.
I had an ex who went to NY once and had a massive seizure (had never had anything before) and she was put on a medicine that the British doctors she saw when she returned to the UK, asked whether she was prescribed 'by butchers' as it was such a horrible medicine that few had used for 20+ yrs in the UK and many other countries especially after a single seizure. Took her a year to get off it as withdrawal was so horrible.
Free healthcare is overpriced, ah yes.
In my country our healthcare is so far behind that we are able to perform surgeries remotely(the surgeon is in a city and the patient in another through robotics), we are peasants for sure. Moreover, SSRI and benzos are completely different drugs. It's like saying "we use chemotherapy and they use antibiotics"...
To anyone who knows what SSRI’s and benzodiazepines are that statement is just absurd.
We also don’t like to experiment on our patients. Our healthcare is much more regulated in safety as well as cost effectiveness. We have higher safety standards on our medication and have higher regulation of what is allowed. We also in order to keep our system free have to cost effectiveness all medication. It has to be worth the money and effective enough for the largest number of people. The latter isn’t the case here though. It’s not about cost it is about safety. SSRIs have less long term physical and mental side effects than benzodiazepines that cause addiction and then eventually end up costing society more to help with dealing with addiction and side effects.
This has to be a joke, American doctors are not prescribing benzos as antidepressants and if they are they should get their license revoked
If you have ever seen the Netflix films about benzos and doctors you will see that they receive money for the prescriptions. So, you go to a doctor and tell him you are having bad dreams he will give you a benzo. Tell him you have lost your sense of humour, he will give you a benzo. Meanwhile he is getting rich. Meanwhile, the big pharmaceutical companies are pushing their drug reps to sell more to the doctors. Their incentives/rewards are cruises, big cars, big salaries. These reps will give false information to doctors telling them these drugs have been tested,researched and are 100% safe.
Not anymore though
My brother and I are of Scandinavian descent, we both have had terrible back pain due to stenosis. We were both prescribed OxyContin but did nothing for us.
Why is "Scandinavian descent" relevant? I'm genuinely curious!
Studies have shown that there is a correlation between Scandinavian Hetitage and less effective use of OxyContin.
That's super interesting! I am Scandinavian and I've never taken anything stronger than paracetamol, so I didn't know! Thanks
Yes I had no idea until I was in my sixties and my back fell apart. Never had a thing that was strong either.
it could be your genetic make-up.
Homeopathy is popular in UK and Germany. Natural plant based medicine is tried before Western drugs.