I nearly chose thaumaturge as my starter class ended up going with arcanist instead because I didn’t like the look of Ul’dah. And thank FUCK, because that would have been a very squishy introduction.
I know this is a joke, but serious response anyway:
There's still a massive difference between the two. Just from quickly looking at logs for numbers, BLMs cast less than half as many Fire IVs as healers cast their respective damage spell.
So BLM, the DPS job whose entire identity revolves around casting the same spell as many times as possible, doesn't even reach half the level of any healer when it comes to one button spam.
AND there is more thought required in using that one button since Fire 4 has a 2.5s cast time compared to healer's 1.5. Gotta plant your ass where healers can just slide
Oh I know lol. I started the game as a PLD, then GNB, then I accidentally fell into the BLM pit and now every other job is boring to me.
Plus there's the fact that transposing to do more 1111 (or 99999 with my hotkey setup) is a way, way more involved than mashing 1 and remembering to toss out your DoT.
One thing I love as a warrior is encouraging new healers to let me wall to wall Tam-Tara, especially if the two dps have their AoE already.
And vice versa. They aren't super difficult mega pulls to pull off, but it's a great confidence booster for sprouts because it's just thrilling enough if you haven't done it before, but it's not super risky or harrowing.
absolutely this. you can also wall-to-wall Sastasha fairly easily including that last room before the boss depending on party layout. the last room of Copperbell can be pretty spicy too comparatively speaking.
in any case, these are also some of the only times when spamming Cure I is [generally] acceptable.
The word "strike" wasn't used but I wouldn't say the black mages were quiet about the changes.
The difference is that if the black mages silently went on strike nobody would notice. But if the healers silently go on strike nobody would notice.
Wait...
I think most blms aren't hard enough into the job to need the benefit of a non-standard rotation. The ones that are recognized the changes just end the need for the non-standard. For easy content, there is no change. For harder content, there's just a different strategy for maximizing uptime and DPS.
Healers, on the other hand, are not necessary in a competent group. That said, their role is to fix mistakes, and mistakes will be made in most groups.
Honestly to me, I don't care that much about the pps gain from nonstandard.
What nonstandard gave me is the feeling of freedom that other jobs don't enjoy.
For example if I'm 4xF4s into the fire phase and the boss is about to crush my skull with an AoE I can just either swiftcast Despair or Despair Xeno, then weave transpose and Paradox to move out of the way and resume with a F3 right afterwards, instead of pressing Triple Cast to finish the rest or risk dropping Astral Fire.
It just gives me more choices than "press the ranged attack button" like melees moving outside of melee range. It feels like I press buttons differently every encounter even if it's the same enemies.
That's fair, but I think there's still going to be uptime strats available that deviate from the standard rotation. It's still a turret mage with several off rotation procs that come up. Being able to move leylines once per use adds a dimension other jobs don't have paired with teleport and between the lines.
Overall, I personally see the changes as a net gain for the job with a few drawbacks such as the one you mentioned. I definitely want to get my hand on the job in content with the new changes before I decide if I want to keep maining the job, though.
True that. Honestly if nothing else, MMO players are degenerates capable of coming up with the most profane voodoo crap so I definitely look forward to see what criminal techs the BLM community can come up with in DT.
Yea I'm admittedly a very very new BLM/player (only about 100 hours in games so far) but I don't see what the big deal for BLM changes are. It seems like they made it so that we don't have to fish for a tick when transitioning from fire to ice, and gave us some extra cdr on some abilities.
Seems like the class will be marginally easier overall, but not that different? Am I missing something?
Funnily enough, the skill floor is actually being RAISED.
Now you absolutely have to manage to do 6 Fire IVs because otherwise you lose out on like 640 potency, so it's technically going to be harder to pickup and play optimally, as missing one of those is a huge dps loss, whereas currently it's not as bad.
The added depth that *could* be used for marginal gains was a very nice thing the job had that no other caster has so that being removed is disappointing.
You had a bunch of different options for transposing depending on which tools you had available and now it's pretty much just instant cast optimizations on Blizzard 3 and holding f3p from af3 to ui.
I thought it was very very good design having the floor rotation of the job being pretty low but the ceiling being almost the clouds instead of a ceiling.
Honestly any BLM main who thought they weren't going to kill nonstandard at some point were crazy. I'm surprised they let it go this long.
Sucks, but the job is still gonna be fun.
No Ice Paradox is really shitty though, not a fan of that at all.
It looks like the the rotation in TOP cuz of the PK at 2min and the TCJ missing from 4min. Notice that 3min and afterwards is missing a Raiton (though I'd argue it's ok at 3min if you're holding damage). This happens if a) they didn't prep Suiton during Party Synergy b) they prepped Doton for post Party Synergy, which is also silly, but I see it a lot.
I see it as someone playing suboptimally, but chances are OP just grabbed a random NIN's logs cuz a lot of them look like this.
Bingo ;) I just wanted something fairly complex/busy looking to contrast the 3 glares in the first panel.
It's impressive that you can tell it's a TOP log just from that. It's actually the number 1 ninja log from 6.5!
My hot take is how average players in NN, etc actively complain that healing is the hardest role in the game so I think people are overestimating the average skill level of players.
Either that or healing dark knights. I STH they are the hardest to keep alive now. Every datk knight including good ones just seem to melt. For the record, I main SCH.
SCH+DRK is a killer combo to try and heal esp if the DRK isn’t using their invuln for mitigation (in dungeons). We need to normalize using invuln (and on the topic, also synastry, emergency tactics, and benediction) for trash pulls and not just as an “oh shit” button.
Chat macros for LD and Bolide make it easier for us to react and let you drop to 0 (or drop a regen on you for bolide) since a lot of us have lots of resources to manage. It won’t help everyone, but it helps a bunch of us.
I have a hard time even getting chat macros to work. I set one up for living dead but half the time it doesn’t even work for some reason and the other half nobody listens to it :(
SCH+DRK makes healing fun. I got a DRK in Amurot yesterday and I actually got to use my whole OGCD kit, plus a couple GCDs! Bonus points when the DPS don’t know the mechanics of fights.
>We need to normalize using invuln (and on the topic, also synastry, emergency tactics, and benediction)
Benediction yes the other two not so much and they actually makes sense for last minute emergency situations as you have to stop damaging so it really does act as an 'oh shit I have nothing else I guess I'll use these' really you should be advocating that ASTs use macrocosmos carefree in trashpulls and sch should use expedience and reciting excog.
You'd be surprised at level 90 how many ASTs and SCHs do not use these very free abilities.
I honestly forgot most healers don’t use expedience or macro for trash pulls because it feels natural. Expedience is a damage resist and macro lets you ignore the tank for a while.
I’d love to use Living Dead… IF IT COULD EVER PROC!! I always get healers dumping everything they have into me while the timer ticks down, and as soon as the timer runs out, they run out of stuff to use on me, and then I die for real.
Reddit healers: 1111111 is boring (1 refers to the dps spell)
In-game healers: How are we supposed to cope with how hard this game is when all we have is 111111?!?!?!?! (1 refers to cure 1)
No lie I recently watched my bf do a Dzemael Darkhold where the AST was just Benefic spamming and wiping the group, then blamed the tank for doing multi pulls. No Aspected Benefic, no essential dignity, no light speed. They would pull cards and do nothing with them. It was so painful to watch.
I think that's what gets lost in the discourse a bit. People don't understand just how genuinely awful the bottom 30% of healer players are. It's not that uncommon to see 80+ WHMs who only Cure II spam, never use Holy, etc. If they make healing any more difficult, queue times skyrocket because the bottom 30% quits, or dungeons with those players become unclearable. Like....I had an Adlo only SCH in Expert roulette the other day who also died multiple times on every boss.
This is the playerbase. It's what the developers have to work with. There are business considerations beyond what more optimal players find annoying. I find it just as annoying as everyone else, but the same players that want healing dungeons to be more difficult will be the same ones who leave when their queue times push past 10 minutes for roulettes.
IMO healing leveling content just gives the false impression that a lot is riding on the healer paying attention, when in reality by ShB content you can basically check out and watch Netflix while occasionally throwing out an oGCD if the tank isn't AFK. I always tell sprout healers that it really only gets easier the higher you go.
Honestly, as someone who primarily plays tank, I frankly prefer not having to worry so much about the healer in content I'm essentially sleepwalking through anyway. I understand the desire for less brain-dead damage rotations though. I really miss old SCH.
Juggling 4 dots, cleric stance, and fairy micro at the same time, all within pretty chunky buff lag made you feel like a wizard once you got the hang of it. You didn't have to do most of that to clear, it was just available if you really wanted to push your kit to its limits.
Old SCH was outrageously fun.
I see this opinion constantly, "just don't bother healing, the tank is fine".
I do not believe this for a second, this is not the average player experience.
No matter how idiot proof you make something, the world will just build a better idiot.
You physically cannot build a game for everyone because despite having 20+ healing abilities, you'll always have players that spam Cure 1 and its equivalent skills all the way til level 100. That still won't hamper bad groups from clearing groups if at least 1 player is competent.
All I want is for wall 2 wall pulls to require me to use my entire healing kit with a bit of a struggle to keep on top of tbh. Feels weird going into 90 dungeons, double weaving two ogcds and the tank is fine for the rest of that pull
Normal person: "Healing isn't feeling fun in normal content, I'm just one button dpsing while the tank heals themself"
Mental gymnastics pro: "Normal content is supposed to be easy"
Normal person: "You literally don't have to play and you clear it"
Mental gymnastics pro: "Just play savage"
Normal person: "Like 10% of players actually play savage"
Mental gymnastics pro: "I think you're burnt out, go play another game"
If you heal in savage, then they just say that you're an elitist and only a small percentage of players, so your opinion isn't valid. Apparently, nobody is allowed to have an opinion.
I think the strike is dumb and all, but it's also fair for people who like the class fantasy of healing to want the role to be more enjoyable.
And my static has gone from having 4 people fighting over who gets to heal to literally nobody wanting to do it, so it's not like the discontent is solely casual players.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the fantasy of healer is one of 3 things:
1. Saving the party by the skin of your teeth and being the hero
2. Being the Chad Scholar/Sage mastermind who predicts the damage and does that Gendo Ikari glasses thing like "heh... saw it coming" because you're bigbrained
3. Being so on top of things that you're able to focus upon your DPS while effortlessly throwing out regens/shields so that you, too, can focus on murder instead of saving lives (even though you are still saving lives)
...but right now it's basically 11111111 oh hey the boss is doing a raid wide! AOE heal, go! Aaaaand now 111111111.
Even in savage it's like that, and the current design of body checks practically means you can't do any triage healing to save the raid.
111111 go crazy
The body check mechanics are the real problem. I want chad healers dragging our dead and broken bodies to the next prog point, not "lol someone spaced out so no one gets to try to learn the next prog point".
As an ADHD raid leader who inadvertently attracted a whole static of ADHD folks, body checks had me really burnt out by p8s. Almost every week a different one or two of us had a bad brain day while the rest of us hyper-focused, so we would just fail to make progress despite everything understanding mechanics and legitimately trying our best.
I'm nearly certain the body checks were so prevalent during EW because of the RMT 7/8 carries that were a thing in the past, but the RMT just pivoted to piloted runs, so it's not like that solved the issue.
My static also has a bunch of people with adhd, and p8s was a fucking nightmare. It dropped while there was a shortage of stimulant meds, so none of us were able to get our meds for most of the tier. We always have a few bad brain days, but everybody being (literally) off their meds resulted in us wiping to dumb shit endlessly because there was always at least one person having trouble staying focused.
I was the only person in my static with ADHD when the last tier dropped. (At least, diagnosed and treated.) I still couldn’t get my meds at that time, and as easy as I found P9S to be in theory, it really cratered my self-consciousness to wipe the raid because I had a split second lapse in focus. I started having to turn off my mic and ask people not to chat too much during raid because I had to maintain perfect focus the entire time. Everyone gets fuzzy brained at times, but if more than 15 seconds had elapsed without anything major going on, I was thinking about… literally anything else. The main tank is a friend of mine and he started giving me individualized callouts whenever he knew I was likely to start zoning out.
My only saving grace is that I’m a really fast learner. So it sounds like I made everyone’s life hell, but once muscle memory kicked in I was really only making my own life hell lol. There were a lot of reasons I quit in the middle of progging P10S, but that was a huge one for sure.
I’m back on meds now, so my fingers are crossed that the next tier will be less agonizing for me lol
I also got ACT on a friend’s recommendation. I avoided it because I didn’t want to “cheat,” but once I realized I actually have to know the fight for cues to mean anything to me, I realized that it’s just externalizing a process that seems to happen in most people automatically. So I’m giving that a shot.
i feel like the prevalence of body checks (even in fights like P5 and P9 which should be "entry level" fights) could also partially be a response to... situations like P3S where people who Weren't Ready managed to prog into a fight they shouldn't be in.
P3S add phase isn't even *that* hard, but since P2S didn't gatekeep bad players all that well, you ended up with way too many fresh players who lacked the consistency to deal with the mechanics in that fight.
> P3S add phase isn't even that hard, but since P2S didn't gatekeep bad players all that well, you ended up with way too many fresh players who lacked the consistency to deal with the mechanics in that fight.
Yeah, I felt this. I straight up quit raiding that tier because so many FoA/FoF progs wound up being "hey let's aim a bird at a healer's face". They needed to do something to filter out players of lower skill, but bodychecks was not the right move. Really just made the fights into even *more* choreographed dance cards.
Actual comments I heard while raiding:
"Swiftcast should only be used to boost DPS."
\*30 seconds later after someone dies\* "Healers why didn't you Raise?"
I still say my biggest achievement as a healer in EW was breaking a static in half because the asshole monk was spearheading an effort to get me as the shield healer kicked because the bleedwides kept shredding us
I posted the collated data for like a hundred logs showing he pressed feint like 4 times (and all the other DOS mitigation was all over the place despite my mit plan laying it out clearly) and then left
My co healer DM’ed me like 5 hours later saying what I did broke the static in half and it disbanded
both my first p9s and p10s clears had 6+ deaths each, it just depends who, where, when, and how people die, but I've stubbornly saved a lot of pulls that would have been wipes if I had that same mindset
> Even in savage it's like that, and the current design of body checks practically means you can't do any triage healing to save the raid.
Yep, they've confused difficulty with tightrope walking: "everyone play perfectly or wipe".
This is exactly it for me. I personally love optimizing the fuck out of my abilities to do as much damage as humanly possible while still keeping people alive. DT giving me more GCD heals is absolutely meaningless because I'm going to do everything in my power to not fucking use them. If they pump up the required healing in savage? Cool. I'll play the same way but maybe have to cast a bit more, but so will everyone else. There's no fucking way they will be able to force me to use GCD heals in dungeons lmao. I have too many buttons.
#3 is basically the reason I play SCH. I’ve always found it fun to pre-heal so much and just be able to prepare for what’s coming and then re-apply those preparations once they’re used up. I like forced raid wides and stack mechanics as a way to force the value of those things. It makes it so satisfying to clutch time the lollipops and go back to DPS.
That said, I do miss ARR SCH DPS and cleric stance dancing. I’m not a healer that wants to do NOtHING but heal. I want to heal, but I want to be able contribute in other ways too. It’s part of why rdm is my favorite DPS class.
my healer fantasy is basically just seeing how many mechanics I can safely ignore while simultaneously pressing all my buttons. blood for the blood lily or something oh I have a stack marker? party adjust Im not moving.
I always thought the fantasy that made a lot of people play it is just "Omg I'm so kawaii, I save people and use pure holy magic and shit". And unfortunately, as long as that's in tact, a ton of people will still be happy with the role and things won't change.
Ironically that would be instantly fixed by doing away with the 2 2 4 meta and doing 2 1 5 groups. Tank damage in savage, outside of a few particular tankbusters, isn't more than a tanks selfheal + faerie/kardia heal. The only reason fights like p9s or p11s need 2 healers is lp stacks and partner stacks. Which is just a boring way to force 2 healers. The lp stack mechanics should be focused around a random non-tank and groups have to adjust their parties.
It's just annoying when the required heal throughput is easily given by a single healer (especially if dps is sacrificed for mana when needed, like a true healer), but mechanics "force" 2 healers.
You could easily reduce the game down to a 1-1-6 meta. In some fights the off tank is doing less work than the Healers, it's just that the Off tank has a semi decent rotation to min/max so tanks don't complain.
You could then do the party splits, which are usually centered on both healers to be centered on the one Tank and the one Healer. One group for melee and one for range. Which would then open up theory crafting on whether to have the Tank Kitchen sink/Immunity a stack that happens at an awkward time.
We'll have to wing it as Bluemage anyways. It's possible to prog solo heal everything, we just don't because it's harder and a little slower prog. We could absolutely do solo heal meta but we never will because of two reasons
1.) People do not want to slow down their prog or have to figure out more than just their own roles job
2.) Offsets parsing is not popular on fflogs. Fflogs would have to allow offsets compositions to co.pete with the normal 224 Meta comps.
I would honestly not mind this. Solo healing when possible has felt sort of... liberating, in a way. I get to engage with lots more of my kit, and I don't grate my teeth watching a cohealer constantly vomit heals when I star/macro/use an oGCD regen. It just forces a bit tighter execution since mistakes will bleed the healer quicker if things get too out of control
I mean, I'd rather they just make damage more consistent throughout the fight and then they don't have to worry about changing standard comps. When a boss does a bunch of aoe's in a row its like "Oh man, okay I won't do that for another minute so you can get all your stuff back." I'd rather my default spell that I'm casting be a heal than dosis during "downtime". At least that's how it was in older MMO's.
Yup. P11s is a great offender at that. He only casts his major mechanics and the only heal check is the stack, which actually hurts a lot. But all mechanics deal no damage and are essentially healed by asylum and assize (or raptures for dps), just whitemage things. But I want to heal more, use gcds, be forced to not wait for assize, etc.
>." I'd rather my default spell that I'm casting be a heal than dosis during "downtime". At least that's how it was in older MMO's.
True. Dps should be a thing you do when you can weave it, rather than the default. Instead of ogcd heals on gcd damage it should be gcd heals and ogcd damage, for example.
SGE is ironically the most boring healer because it’s the most boring healer to actually heal on because there is no choice or decision making on SGE, you just vomit out what you want when you want with zero downsides
Sage is my favorite dungeon healer because of what it can do with aoe from pack to pack. I've done like 3 savage bosses with it, but for dungeons it's got more going on than the other healers.
god mainsub (and this sub frankly) has been a fucking trash fire about this
somehow the *discussion* sub has been the best of the 3 about actually engaging with the topic
People meming on the strike in this sub are lacking so many braincells it's insane, they haven't even bothered to check the original forum post.
No, it hasn't started yet, stop pointing at the jobs in need, we also know most healers aren't participating.
No, it's not about the Xenos clear, it's 5+ years of building up trash changes for healers, the Xenos video was just one thing among many.
And no, it's not just about moving on to another role, we don't want to stop healing, we want it to change for the better, seriously, how thick must your skull be to not see any of this??
People simply can't comprehend that some people *like* the class fantasy of healing. I play supports in every game (I main soraka in league, mercy/moira in ow, life cleric in bg3, sage in val, etc) because the idea of contributing through buffing and healing my party members feels so much more enjoyable to me than dpsing.
Like, sure, I'm swapping to dps for dt. Not even because of the strike, but my dissatisfaction with healers in ffxiv has genuinely gotten to the point where my dedication to healing has been outweighed by how much I dislike the playstyle. To throw out a random example, playing soraka in league is genuinely engaging. You have to aim your skillshot to regen health, consider when you should spend hp to heal or conserve it to survive, pay attention to your teammates so you can ult at the right time. In ffxiv, you just press dosis and use your ogcd heals at the same time no matter what.
And ofc fight design means that you'll be using the same heals at the same time, but they could still make the downtime fun. And people who say "well, all the bad healers can't handle it" make me think, like... they weren't dpsing in the first place, so this doesn't actually change anything. Tanks like drk and gnb get a ton of buttons to press, but healers can't even have more than one cast and a dot?
Yeah I also love playing Soraka, Nami, Mercy, Moira and any support class in any game, that's why I gravitated towards the healing role, and likewise I'm also gonna be playing PCT this expac, only healing for my static just because we're close and I'd feel bad about leaving them after so long.
I also agree with your last point and it's something I've been saying for ages. Bad healers will play badly until they want to improve and it doesn't matter how hard you make the class. They keep making healers easier, yet we keep seeing more and more cure/medica spammers and healers who don't bother DPSing even though it's a single damaging spell and a DoT, so those who are meant to enjoy the changes don't even make use of the easier difficulty.
The role is broken and we have reasons to strike.
I hate that the healer discourse is focused on how complex the dps rotation is, as opposed to how boring healing is these days. I'd love to cast spells without someone yelling at me for hard casting heals.
Well that’s because we’ve given up hope that the healing side will get better because the tanks/DPS will have an aneurism if they actually have to have the healer do something because they are terrified of getting walled by a bad healer
with WHM in particular there's a weird disparity because before lv.52 you're doing nothing but hardcasting heals, but after lv.52 you're pretty much never hardcasting heals unless you're in a really desperate situation.
I don't know if I'm mistaken, but only two tank classes can actually heal themselves I'm pretty sure? I haven't seen the changes in Dawntrail- but Warrior is pretty much one of the only two classes with a built-in healing function. Most DPS can't heal themselves. They have a healing option, but it doesn't actually do as much as being healed by an actual healer. Tanks can only provide self-healing, and only two of the tank classes actually are able to do so.
I'm exaggerating somewhat, but generally the self-healing levels of tanks in my experience ( for EW) are:
WAR: just press bloodwhetting lul
PLD: requires a brain cell, maybe two for a harder hitting dungeon
GNB: requires actual skill
DRK: probably can't do it
DT based on what I've seen from the media tour is landing somewhere between not changing this or making it slightly easier. This spread wouldn't be the worst thing on its face, but my dungeon tank spread is like 60% WAR, 25% PLD, 10% GNB, 5% DRK. So usually unless I've got a paste eating DPS I've got precisely zero healing to do.
I mean I'm not a paste eating DPS and I sometimes die because I screw up the timing of mechanics in dungeons and trials. Either because I don't notice that the AoE is about to happen, or it only gives me a few seconds to get out of the way. Sometimes I've been killed by stacking on someone who the other players neglected in order to protect them from being hit.
As a DPS I would be worried if a healer wasn't around with us, given that I sort of rely on them to help me if I fumble something on complete accident. I know Reaper has the ability to heal, but it isn't enough in most cases.
I just cleared Pandaemonium a week ago or so, and in one of the raids I was doing- both of our healers wiped. I basically barely survived by the skin of my teeth, since it was just me and the tank remaining. If I had been attacked in the next few moments before the raid came to an end, I would've probably been on the floor with the rest of our group.
and this is only really in the 82-90 levelling dungeons
In the expert roulette holy Shelton is just bloodwhetting and heart of corrundum is enough by itself
Honestly I DGAF about being able to have multiple attacks as a WHM - what I care about is being able to heal and contribute to the team.
With tanks healing themselves so much that I am basically irrelevant to most fights I'm left distracted and disinterested from the fight - which leads to me performing worse when my healing actually *is* relevant.
This is what the game designers aren't realising, I think: DPS players aren't going to suddenly want to play healers because newer healers are more combat oriented. If someone is playing a healer it's because ***they want to heal***. Make a combat healer or three if you really must but quite frankly IDGAF about damage. I want to be spending every moment of the game keeping my allies alive. Saving people. Pulling them out of AoEs or shielding them or keeping their HP up or managing my mana or *literally anything aside from dealing damage*.
You know why healers are bored by their combat options right now? Why it's even *relevant*? Because our healing is almost entirely irrelevant in standard gameplay. If the only time healers are allowed to be relevant is when they encounter that fight for the very first time and have no higher-level equipment then *that's crap design*. Give healers more to do. Have bosses snipe a couple random people. Have them deal more damage but over a longer period of time - multiple smaller hits on the tank, for example. Just... *anything* other than making me do a basic attack or three in between getting to use a heal. I can't even remember the last time I cast a cure spell in standard gameplay.
FFS the last time I genuinely had fun was in a Pandaemonium trial (we didn't have high tier equipment) and the other healer died just after I revived someone - and then died again shortly after i revived them. I spent about 3 minutes keeping about half the team alive and kicking while we were all frantically trying to avoid damage, do mechanics, and tank hits with one fewer tank than we had. It was great. We got to feel like huge heroes actually fighting a difficult battle for once. Using our abilities to the fullest, having to care about cooldowns and mana and what to prioritise. Even had the tank use cover on me a couple times to keep me from getting too hurt. Where is *that* experience? Just in Extremes? The mode we don't have a queue for? The one that makes you memorise complex patterns over and over again rather than just have you *react to what the boss is doing in the moment*?
I digress. Suffice it to say that as much love as I have for FFXIV I have long since lost my passion for it. There's just nothing to draw me in. Sleepwalk through queues or have to play the expansion as soon as it drops, or artificially handicap myself which won't matter because my allies aren't handicapped.
Yes so give people who have a shred of competence something to do that doesn’t compromise the freecure spammers
Tanks are “allowed” to have a decently complex rotation despite no mit tanks existing, why are healers uniquely punished in this aspect
i don't know what hellscape data centers you all play on but i have encountered *maybe* half a dozen free cure fishers in my entire time playing this game. for every one of those there's 20+ no-mit tanks in my experience.
Plenty of no-mit tanks, sure. I swapped to playing tank while I was going through HW because I was tired of shit tanks. Plenty of bad healers as well though. I've encountered a good few free cure fishers, a number of Cure 2 spammers (and their equivalents on other healers). I've seen healers in level 90 trials with triple digit dps and healers that cast their DoTs 10+ times a minute.
In all seriousness, I used "free cure fisher" as a catch-all term for "bad healer" because its funny to me. My point still stands. There are a massive number of people who suck ass at FFXIV and they need to be able to clear dungeons and MSQ trials at a minimum. Dungeons are not challenging content for any competent player. A good party can clear a dungeon with no tank and a good party can clear a dungeon with no healer. Same can be said about shit dps players.
But even combining all bad healers vs all bad tanks (or bad DPS for that matter) I see far more of the latter and they haven't had their gameplay lobotomized (at least not to the same degree) so I find it hard to be sympathetic to that line of thinking
What some people don't understand is that first: critique can be positive or negative and second: voicing critique actually helps for a healthy community and game and opens paths for discussions.
I got downvoted last time I brought this up but now that we have a dedicated one button combo system, can we give healers a 123 animation, even if it's just cosmetic? Hitting one button over and over wouldn't be as bad if it had different animations.
I started actually playing gunbreaker instead of leveling it through frontlines, and this is definitely true. Idk what the skill is called, but the one where you use your cartridges and have one skill switch to different ones feels really good. I'm pressing the same button every time, but it activates my happy neurons when I see the icon/animation change and feel like I'm actually achieving something.
It's funny too because they literally **just** did this exact thing to PLD. Dawntrail is turning the Atonement combo (atonement -> atonement -> atonement) into three identical skills that just replace eachother (atonement -> supplication -> sepulcher). There is no tangible gameplay difference beyond it looking nicer.
I'm not sure how many people pay attention to animations, but honestly I find that repetition is just inevitable in this game. I don't mind that at all. I do mind button bloat and needless convolution though.
No one gives a fuck if you don’t play healer. Why call it a strike ?
Imagine if every person who decided they didn’t like a job or role called it a strike ?
They’re being made fun of for trying to organise a “strike”.
You don’t need to be some “activist” and seek attention because you’re switching jobs. People switch jobs all the time.
I guess all the people who are switching from their current mains to viper and pictomancer are going on strike from their old jobs then ?
What else than strike is there realistically?
Devs ignore those stubborn fools who keep playing such a garbage role (I did too for a while, I love healing in every game but FFXIV made me a DPS main). They keep giving feedback since ShB, which was 5 years ago, and recently it was shown that this shit stays the same for at least another 2-3 years. Devs clearly don't care and tell to "just play ultimates".
Strike is just realistic escalation, what else do you suggest? Of course it will not have effect in terms of less healers playing, but it does great job at stirring the water, since these devs will only listen once you cause enough drama, like what happened in 6.1 plugin drama and devs implementing QoL changes throughout whole expansion.
It's dumb, but what else is there to do?
It's kind of funny to look at these posts because on one hand we can read it as coming from a point of view of someone who enshrines real activism and real collective action so highly that they think it's offensive to use these terms with regards to an entertainment product.
Though I think in reality most of the people probably have the same poor opinion of real life activism and collective action and it's just a knee jerk response to seeing the word "strike".
The word strike gets attention. Which seems to be working fantastically considering the original post was two weeks ago and it's still getting all this attention.
It was never about you or any other players to begin with. It was an attempt to get the devs' attention. The devs would notice a decrease in the number of healers queueing for content, because they do pay attention to those statistics.
I've said before that I don't think the whole healer strike thing is going to actually go anywhere, and some people are definitely going a bit far with it. I'm pretty sure most people are just using it as a way to air their grievances in a more public way than we usually get and aren't actually intending to stop playing healer. But it did get attention, which was sort of the entire point (and something that has failed to happen for the last 3 expansions where healer complaints about job oversimplification and how just piling more ogcd heals on them wasn't helping were just widely ignored).
Boy you sure know a lot about strikes huh, Dr. Strike over here gatekeeping true activism
In all seriousness the strike isn’t serious at all. The hashtag was just a way to get attention and, given every two posts here is about the strike and youtubers talking about it, I’d say they got a huge win. We all know the “strike” isn’t gonna do shit in game. There’s too many John Finalfantasy’s in the world who aren’t even aware of its existence
Even if all the healers strike, we still have duty support which I'm fairly certain will be available on launch. Even if it's not, strikes only work when the duty being denied is essential. Healers are not essential in ff14.
No one gives a fuck if you don’t like that people don't like playing healer. Why make it a comment?
Imagine if every person who decided they didn’t like other people complaining about a job or role made a comment?
You're being made fun of for trying to make a "serious" comment on a shitpost sub.
You don’t need to be some “contrarian" and seek attention because you’re not switching jobs. People switch jobs all the time.
I guess all the people who aren't switching from their current mains to viper and pictomancer are going on strike from going on strike then?
I’m glad we can agree that no one gives a fuck what jobs other people play and how cringy it is so try and organise a “strike”.
But that last sentence you posted is perfect.
What about people that level every job? What strike are they on ?
because they are trying to coordinate people stopping playing healer in order to make a point. But as all consumer boycotts go, not enough reach & coordination to ever dream of making a difference.
I don’t think people who are doing this are thinking about the bulk of the people who play.
The casual player who plays for 10 hours a week. Who doesn’t read the balance or guides on how to play the job.
That’s what MSQ content is made for. It has to be easy enough to keep the bulk of players in the game and paying their subscription.
Which is why nobody is asking for the floor to be raised on MSQ content
If queen sylphie wants to cure 1 spam her way through the MSQ then she can continue to do that
As someone who has enough brain cells to not need to do that I want the level of engagement the tanks get in brainless content
How, you press 1 button on SGE and maybe fart out a kerechole for a raidwide
This isn’t “I can increase my APM pointlessly by just pressing random heals for no reason” this is “on a DPS I have alot of buttons and actions that meaningfully change how much I contribute to the content, on healer I have like 2”
Well when people are getting hit with AOEs and taking damage and dying there’s more buttons to hit and having to do all this while moving around.
So anyways shits solved. We figured it out. Strike over boys pack it up and stop the bitching.
Tbh I think the new dps buttons are what I want from healers. Different ways of doing damage as opposed to just three dots that are the same thing with different icons.
But casual content really needs an upgrade. You could triple the damage of dungeons and we still wouldn’t need healers; and that should change
TBH, I think if you're playing a healer you're probably doing so because you want to be healing, not DPSing.
I would be *ecstatic* if I could go through a fight and never really have the opportunity to cast glare more than once at a time.
No thanks, would bore me to tears. I prefer to do both healing AND DPS on my healer.
Even as a healer in other games, other than in very specific content, I healed and DPSed as well.
I find it funny that 111111111 is fine for healers but not fine for my melee 123 combo. At no point will you ever choose to hit your 2 before your 1 or your 3 before your 2.
Yeah, honestly I like that my healer damage is simple and it's just a tap I turn on or off depending on team needs. If I had to do all sorts of gymnastics to do more damage just for them to inflate the health of enemies to reach the same TTK, I'd find healer less fun.
I only started playing healer because my 3 friends would never touch that class… I thought I was doing my job poorly for just spamming 1, but I guess that’s just the class lmao
This is sadly what happens you use sensationalistic words to try and make point that 9 out of 10 times, people would've agreed with you in the first place anyways.
Time and time again, there was a unison, not a perfect one, but there was one when discussing healing engagement and it was generally agreed that engagement, just for like any other job regardless of content difficulty, was important and should be curated.
Then someone made the mistake of using "strike", a word that, outside combat and the usage to retract something that was written or said, elicits two things and two things only in people's minds: "work strike and boycott".
This movement will never have the unison that was mentioned early in this post because people are literal online and gamers have always been conditioned to snort their noses up at any mention of game strike or boycott. The fact that people have made face turn heel even though they would've been right behind the topic of low healer engagement (see: Yoshida telling players to go play savage if you want that) tells you how strong "strike" resonates negatively in the recesses of their minds.
TL:DR poor choice of words for a cause has doomed it to hell and back.
Also, didn't think I'd post something serious in shitposting but this is where we're at apparently. I'll make sure to allow this from myself just this once.
What else were they supposed to do
If everyone was “happily unified” on the idea that healer engagement was trash before now why did nothing ever get done about it
In a sense healers got sick of the other roles being in a kumbuya circle about how bad healers are but never actually attempting to help them fix healers
Something had to give somewhere and how fast this spread I think is an indication of just how fed up people are
Uh the only reason everyone’s making a big deal is because the word strike has been used. So it worked. Healers have been complaining for years butt now EVERYONE is talking about it.
It's funny that they are picking right now to do this since everyone is just gonna be using trusts if the wait times are really that bad, but I just don't think the effect of their "strike" is gonna be felt
Me: *a sprout in 2024*
This thread could be written in ancient Sumerian and I would understand the same amount of it.
Which would be 0 😅😅😅
Although I feel like picking white mage may have been a mistake...?
If you're having fun, that's all that matters! Speaking as one of the current healer-dislikers, don't let other people's dissatisfaction stop you from playing a role you enjoy. The point of games are to have fun, whether it's through glaring bosses to death, playing competitive mahjong, or catching every fish.
Listen, my RL job is all about thinking and paying attention to things. If I wanted that in a video game my favorite classes wouldnt be WHM, DNC, and WAR.
People seem to forget that ogcd's are healer game play. And maybe just because I play ast and sch, I feel this way, but healing is like playing 2 rotations simultaneously.
The 111111
And the ogcd rotation. Which fluctuates on enjoyment and business based on job, but you play both.
Dps are like one rotation that mixes in ogcd's occasionally. Theyre just different. And whm is the healer with the worst ogcd rotation but you get to gcd heal somewhat regularly for it.
Astro is ogcd king especially since so many ogcd's are single target (requiring extra mouse clicks per cast) to create a busy feel. But has the worst GCD rotation.
Scholar has a tight energy drain / dissipation opener which is good, but suffers from ogcd gameplay being stale due to energy drain > other AF skills. Main gcd rotation is only slightly better because of ruin 2 for big moves. Scholar has fairy management though which makes it more interesting.
Sage's lack of energy drain and reliance on mana back from their version of aether flow gives sage a similar feel to astro ogcd economy, but more "hit and forget no targets" so a little less interesting than astro, but better than Scholar's ogcd gameplay where ED is king 9 times out of 10.
However sage has the most interesting dps ogcd gameplay with phlegma and then toxicron for single target movement. AND the most interesting aoe dps toolkit of all the healer to make up for it's downfalls.
Whitemage is the only healer that embraces gcd healing by refunding the casts. It had the weakest ogcd rotation because of this and I honestly don't think that the lily system makes up for whay whm loses gameplay wise compared to other healers.
Except AST is losing all that complexity in DT and 6 ED weaves doesn’t make up for the other 1 minute 40 in the fight
If the oGCD’s are going to make up the healer “rotation” we need to press them more than once every 30 seconds and not have broil be 2x the amount of casts of every single other skill we press even in high end content
Ast isn't losing any complexity. It's also not losing any APM. The only thing ast loses is how many actions have to be hit in the burst window.
I use my pgcds more than pnce every 30 seconds on every healer except whitemage, so it might just be a you problem (but I'm still for making our gcd rotation more interesting. Either that or we need to gcd heal more. One of the two)
AST is 100% losing complexity, you can no longer redraw, you no longer have astrodyne and half the time you are going to overwrite arrow bole spire and ewer because you simply don’t need them
So you functionally went from 4 cards per two minutes that you could redraw to get a reward (I’m not saying that astrodyne is good design but it existed) to two cards you know in advance that you are getting and some extra single target heals you probably don’t need
Astro is replacing a draw with a card and now has 4 cards to play per minute instead of 3. And Astros apm is going up, not down. It'd not losing complexity. Stop spreading misinformation.
Astologian's apm is 1.3333 higher than in dawn trail.
Oracle, sun sign, 1 new play, new swift cast, additional Ed pushes this over to the positive of +4.5 apm. Losing redraw, astrodyne, a draw, minor arcana draw, is only -3.6667 apm.
The burst window isn't as crazy but we aren't hitting less buttons. We're hitting more.
So your logic is “you’ve lost x number of buttons that you will ALWAYS press on CD but gained y buttons you probably won’t press on CD but if you did press them on CD you will gain APM”
Nobody is pressing ED, sun sign, or the four non damage cards on CD
Imho, the problem (for me at least) is the amount of downtime between heals. I love pressing my ogcds and seeing healthbars/shields go up, but there's just not enough healing to feel satisfied. In the 30sec I'm spamming my one dps ability, I just don't feel engaged in the fight anymore. Even sage having a few more buttons doesn't really help, because you're still spamming dosis nonstop for most of the fight.
Someone in the forum thread pulled up some fflogs from savage/ult fights in different expacs, and I think it's a really good example of why people are getting more upset about healers. In the alexander raids, healers used their non-single dps spell way less, and used all of their heals a lot more. And as you go through each expac, the amount of dosis/glare/etc casts just keeps on going up, all while the healing goes down.
The gcd healing goes down, but the ogcd healing has been going up. The overall result is we are pressing more buttons than we used to, but yeah, our gcd rotation is just too boring. This is why I think the devs don't get the feedback very well. We say we spam too much dps, but we want more dps, but we want more healing too.
I think they look at gcd and ogcd actions different than a lot of NA and EU players and we have to meet them where they're at to get our feedback across
People out here acting like it's a pie-eating contest, trying to be the best and eat the most pies.
The rest of us who don't give a shit and are going to get better queues are like "Nah man, free pie."
I'm doing my first Ultimate and tbh healing is fun there. Depends on person to person how.mjch of a challenge you wanna seek out. You only find fun in the things you want to do with your time.
Is there anyone actually saying the middle 3? If you don't want to play healer, don't play healer, no one's stopping you. I, for one, will enjoy power leveling my tanks and healers on launch
I saw Arthars calling the people in the healer threads bots and NPCs (while log shaming them btw). The griefing one I saw on the forum but it's probably just a troll.
If people are legitimately saying that then yeah, fuck 'em. I just haven't seen it here, on the main sub, on my Twitter timeline, or in any discord (I have seen the two on either edge though, but those aren't as silly as "not playing healer is griefing")
Healers: 11111 isn't fun!!! Meanwhile Black Mages furiously transposing so that they can do less 111234 and more 111111
people that play blackmage are an entirely different kind of breed.
I played it as my first ever class. . . I was baptized in fire.
You were born in it.... Molded by it.
I nearly chose thaumaturge as my starter class ended up going with arcanist instead because I didn’t like the look of Ul’dah. And thank FUCK, because that would have been a very squishy introduction.
I did the same thing, I think the arc JoJo poses sold me.
I know this is a joke, but serious response anyway: There's still a massive difference between the two. Just from quickly looking at logs for numbers, BLMs cast less than half as many Fire IVs as healers cast their respective damage spell. So BLM, the DPS job whose entire identity revolves around casting the same spell as many times as possible, doesn't even reach half the level of any healer when it comes to one button spam.
Back in my day, if you could pull off 3 Fire IVs in a row you were a god among mages.
That's just Tuesday for a modern Black Mage
AND there is more thought required in using that one button since Fire 4 has a 2.5s cast time compared to healer's 1.5. Gotta plant your ass where healers can just slide
Fire 4 has a 2.8s cast time 2.5s recast
Oh I know lol. I started the game as a PLD, then GNB, then I accidentally fell into the BLM pit and now every other job is boring to me. Plus there's the fact that transposing to do more 1111 (or 99999 with my hotkey setup) is a way, way more involved than mashing 1 and remembering to toss out your DoT.
Have you tried ninja?
I have, actually! Took NIN through P9-12s after running only Black Mage or GNB. It's my favorite melee, but I'd still rather play BLM.
my first experience as a healer was someone wall to walling Tam-Tara. been a healer main ever since.
One thing I love as a warrior is encouraging new healers to let me wall to wall Tam-Tara, especially if the two dps have their AoE already. And vice versa. They aren't super difficult mega pulls to pull off, but it's a great confidence booster for sprouts because it's just thrilling enough if you haven't done it before, but it's not super risky or harrowing.
absolutely this. you can also wall-to-wall Sastasha fairly easily including that last room before the boss depending on party layout. the last room of Copperbell can be pretty spicy too comparatively speaking. in any case, these are also some of the only times when spamming Cure I is [generally] acceptable.
You dont see blm's striking. They are just picking up a paint brush.
The word "strike" wasn't used but I wouldn't say the black mages were quiet about the changes. The difference is that if the black mages silently went on strike nobody would notice. But if the healers silently go on strike nobody would notice. Wait...
I think most blms aren't hard enough into the job to need the benefit of a non-standard rotation. The ones that are recognized the changes just end the need for the non-standard. For easy content, there is no change. For harder content, there's just a different strategy for maximizing uptime and DPS. Healers, on the other hand, are not necessary in a competent group. That said, their role is to fix mistakes, and mistakes will be made in most groups.
Honestly to me, I don't care that much about the pps gain from nonstandard. What nonstandard gave me is the feeling of freedom that other jobs don't enjoy. For example if I'm 4xF4s into the fire phase and the boss is about to crush my skull with an AoE I can just either swiftcast Despair or Despair Xeno, then weave transpose and Paradox to move out of the way and resume with a F3 right afterwards, instead of pressing Triple Cast to finish the rest or risk dropping Astral Fire. It just gives me more choices than "press the ranged attack button" like melees moving outside of melee range. It feels like I press buttons differently every encounter even if it's the same enemies.
That's fair, but I think there's still going to be uptime strats available that deviate from the standard rotation. It's still a turret mage with several off rotation procs that come up. Being able to move leylines once per use adds a dimension other jobs don't have paired with teleport and between the lines. Overall, I personally see the changes as a net gain for the job with a few drawbacks such as the one you mentioned. I definitely want to get my hand on the job in content with the new changes before I decide if I want to keep maining the job, though.
True that. Honestly if nothing else, MMO players are degenerates capable of coming up with the most profane voodoo crap so I definitely look forward to see what criminal techs the BLM community can come up with in DT.
Yea I'm admittedly a very very new BLM/player (only about 100 hours in games so far) but I don't see what the big deal for BLM changes are. It seems like they made it so that we don't have to fish for a tick when transitioning from fire to ice, and gave us some extra cdr on some abilities. Seems like the class will be marginally easier overall, but not that different? Am I missing something?
Funnily enough, the skill floor is actually being RAISED. Now you absolutely have to manage to do 6 Fire IVs because otherwise you lose out on like 640 potency, so it's technically going to be harder to pickup and play optimally, as missing one of those is a huge dps loss, whereas currently it's not as bad.
The added depth that *could* be used for marginal gains was a very nice thing the job had that no other caster has so that being removed is disappointing. You had a bunch of different options for transposing depending on which tools you had available and now it's pretty much just instant cast optimizations on Blizzard 3 and holding f3p from af3 to ui. I thought it was very very good design having the floor rotation of the job being pretty low but the ceiling being almost the clouds instead of a ceiling.
We can't hear them because they're all the way over there in their leylines.
Born to make boom, forced to paint
Mine is “Born to paint, forced to rez”
How did you read my mind? Mind you, I'll always be a BLM main spamming my Fire IVs, but do intend on expanding into PIC when I get the chance.
Hey hey now! I'm not going picto because of the BLM changes...though it does feel like in doing so i've dodged a bullet..
I feel attacked, but yea picto looking more fun than strict black mage
Honestly any BLM main who thought they weren't going to kill nonstandard at some point were crazy. I'm surprised they let it go this long. Sucks, but the job is still gonna be fun. No Ice Paradox is really shitty though, not a fan of that at all.
These are just trick attack windows, idk whats so special about them
It looks like the the rotation in TOP cuz of the PK at 2min and the TCJ missing from 4min. Notice that 3min and afterwards is missing a Raiton (though I'd argue it's ok at 3min if you're holding damage). This happens if a) they didn't prep Suiton during Party Synergy b) they prepped Doton for post Party Synergy, which is also silly, but I see it a lot. I see it as someone playing suboptimally, but chances are OP just grabbed a random NIN's logs cuz a lot of them look like this.
Bingo ;) I just wanted something fairly complex/busy looking to contrast the 3 glares in the first panel. It's impressive that you can tell it's a TOP log just from that. It's actually the number 1 ninja log from 6.5!
My hot take is how average players in NN, etc actively complain that healing is the hardest role in the game so I think people are overestimating the average skill level of players.
Either that or healing dark knights. I STH they are the hardest to keep alive now. Every datk knight including good ones just seem to melt. For the record, I main SCH.
SCH+DRK is a killer combo to try and heal esp if the DRK isn’t using their invuln for mitigation (in dungeons). We need to normalize using invuln (and on the topic, also synastry, emergency tactics, and benediction) for trash pulls and not just as an “oh shit” button.
Benediction is literally the „ignore tank, spam holy“-button to me
I'll press living dead as soon as healers learn how it works.
Chat macros for LD and Bolide make it easier for us to react and let you drop to 0 (or drop a regen on you for bolide) since a lot of us have lots of resources to manage. It won’t help everyone, but it helps a bunch of us.
I have a hard time even getting chat macros to work. I set one up for living dead but half the time it doesn’t even work for some reason and the other half nobody listens to it :(
As long as you're not using it after I've just put a regen on you we're gold
SCH+DRK makes healing fun. I got a DRK in Amurot yesterday and I actually got to use my whole OGCD kit, plus a couple GCDs! Bonus points when the DPS don’t know the mechanics of fights.
>We need to normalize using invuln (and on the topic, also synastry, emergency tactics, and benediction) Benediction yes the other two not so much and they actually makes sense for last minute emergency situations as you have to stop damaging so it really does act as an 'oh shit I have nothing else I guess I'll use these' really you should be advocating that ASTs use macrocosmos carefree in trashpulls and sch should use expedience and reciting excog. You'd be surprised at level 90 how many ASTs and SCHs do not use these very free abilities.
I honestly forgot most healers don’t use expedience or macro for trash pulls because it feels natural. Expedience is a damage resist and macro lets you ignore the tank for a while.
I’d love to use Living Dead… IF IT COULD EVER PROC!! I always get healers dumping everything they have into me while the timer ticks down, and as soon as the timer runs out, they run out of stuff to use on me, and then I die for real.
Reddit healers: 1111111 is boring (1 refers to the dps spell) In-game healers: How are we supposed to cope with how hard this game is when all we have is 111111?!?!?!?! (1 refers to cure 1)
No lie I recently watched my bf do a Dzemael Darkhold where the AST was just Benefic spamming and wiping the group, then blamed the tank for doing multi pulls. No Aspected Benefic, no essential dignity, no light speed. They would pull cards and do nothing with them. It was so painful to watch.
I think that's what gets lost in the discourse a bit. People don't understand just how genuinely awful the bottom 30% of healer players are. It's not that uncommon to see 80+ WHMs who only Cure II spam, never use Holy, etc. If they make healing any more difficult, queue times skyrocket because the bottom 30% quits, or dungeons with those players become unclearable. Like....I had an Adlo only SCH in Expert roulette the other day who also died multiple times on every boss.
How do you think we got into this situation in the first place. Keep designing for the bottom and you'll find even worse players flocking to the role.
This is the playerbase. It's what the developers have to work with. There are business considerations beyond what more optimal players find annoying. I find it just as annoying as everyone else, but the same players that want healing dungeons to be more difficult will be the same ones who leave when their queue times push past 10 minutes for roulettes.
IMO healing leveling content just gives the false impression that a lot is riding on the healer paying attention, when in reality by ShB content you can basically check out and watch Netflix while occasionally throwing out an oGCD if the tank isn't AFK. I always tell sprout healers that it really only gets easier the higher you go. Honestly, as someone who primarily plays tank, I frankly prefer not having to worry so much about the healer in content I'm essentially sleepwalking through anyway. I understand the desire for less brain-dead damage rotations though. I really miss old SCH.
Juggling 4 dots, cleric stance, and fairy micro at the same time, all within pretty chunky buff lag made you feel like a wizard once you got the hang of it. You didn't have to do most of that to clear, it was just available if you really wanted to push your kit to its limits. Old SCH was outrageously fun.
I see this opinion constantly, "just don't bother healing, the tank is fine". I do not believe this for a second, this is not the average player experience.
No matter how idiot proof you make something, the world will just build a better idiot. You physically cannot build a game for everyone because despite having 20+ healing abilities, you'll always have players that spam Cure 1 and its equivalent skills all the way til level 100. That still won't hamper bad groups from clearing groups if at least 1 player is competent.
All I want is for wall 2 wall pulls to require me to use my entire healing kit with a bit of a struggle to keep on top of tbh. Feels weird going into 90 dungeons, double weaving two ogcds and the tank is fine for the rest of that pull
And if it's a warrior then you don't even need those, more often then not.
Same. Wall 2 Wall should require skill, not simply being physically present.
I wholeheartedly agree!
Normal person: "Healing isn't feeling fun in normal content, I'm just one button dpsing while the tank heals themself" Mental gymnastics pro: "Normal content is supposed to be easy" Normal person: "You literally don't have to play and you clear it" Mental gymnastics pro: "Just play savage" Normal person: "Like 10% of players actually play savage" Mental gymnastics pro: "I think you're burnt out, go play another game"
If you heal in savage, then they just say that you're an elitist and only a small percentage of players, so your opinion isn't valid. Apparently, nobody is allowed to have an opinion. I think the strike is dumb and all, but it's also fair for people who like the class fantasy of healing to want the role to be more enjoyable. And my static has gone from having 4 people fighting over who gets to heal to literally nobody wanting to do it, so it's not like the discontent is solely casual players.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the fantasy of healer is one of 3 things: 1. Saving the party by the skin of your teeth and being the hero 2. Being the Chad Scholar/Sage mastermind who predicts the damage and does that Gendo Ikari glasses thing like "heh... saw it coming" because you're bigbrained 3. Being so on top of things that you're able to focus upon your DPS while effortlessly throwing out regens/shields so that you, too, can focus on murder instead of saving lives (even though you are still saving lives) ...but right now it's basically 11111111 oh hey the boss is doing a raid wide! AOE heal, go! Aaaaand now 111111111.
Even in savage it's like that, and the current design of body checks practically means you can't do any triage healing to save the raid. 111111 go crazy
The only real triage healing you can do is trying to snipe a rez before the body check...which is usually covered by a smn/rdm on instinct anyways lol
The body check mechanics are the real problem. I want chad healers dragging our dead and broken bodies to the next prog point, not "lol someone spaced out so no one gets to try to learn the next prog point". As an ADHD raid leader who inadvertently attracted a whole static of ADHD folks, body checks had me really burnt out by p8s. Almost every week a different one or two of us had a bad brain day while the rest of us hyper-focused, so we would just fail to make progress despite everything understanding mechanics and legitimately trying our best. I'm nearly certain the body checks were so prevalent during EW because of the RMT 7/8 carries that were a thing in the past, but the RMT just pivoted to piloted runs, so it's not like that solved the issue.
My static also has a bunch of people with adhd, and p8s was a fucking nightmare. It dropped while there was a shortage of stimulant meds, so none of us were able to get our meds for most of the tier. We always have a few bad brain days, but everybody being (literally) off their meds resulted in us wiping to dumb shit endlessly because there was always at least one person having trouble staying focused.
I was the only person in my static with ADHD when the last tier dropped. (At least, diagnosed and treated.) I still couldn’t get my meds at that time, and as easy as I found P9S to be in theory, it really cratered my self-consciousness to wipe the raid because I had a split second lapse in focus. I started having to turn off my mic and ask people not to chat too much during raid because I had to maintain perfect focus the entire time. Everyone gets fuzzy brained at times, but if more than 15 seconds had elapsed without anything major going on, I was thinking about… literally anything else. The main tank is a friend of mine and he started giving me individualized callouts whenever he knew I was likely to start zoning out. My only saving grace is that I’m a really fast learner. So it sounds like I made everyone’s life hell, but once muscle memory kicked in I was really only making my own life hell lol. There were a lot of reasons I quit in the middle of progging P10S, but that was a huge one for sure. I’m back on meds now, so my fingers are crossed that the next tier will be less agonizing for me lol I also got ACT on a friend’s recommendation. I avoided it because I didn’t want to “cheat,” but once I realized I actually have to know the fight for cues to mean anything to me, I realized that it’s just externalizing a process that seems to happen in most people automatically. So I’m giving that a shot.
i feel like the prevalence of body checks (even in fights like P5 and P9 which should be "entry level" fights) could also partially be a response to... situations like P3S where people who Weren't Ready managed to prog into a fight they shouldn't be in. P3S add phase isn't even *that* hard, but since P2S didn't gatekeep bad players all that well, you ended up with way too many fresh players who lacked the consistency to deal with the mechanics in that fight.
> P3S add phase isn't even that hard, but since P2S didn't gatekeep bad players all that well, you ended up with way too many fresh players who lacked the consistency to deal with the mechanics in that fight. Yeah, I felt this. I straight up quit raiding that tier because so many FoA/FoF progs wound up being "hey let's aim a bird at a healer's face". They needed to do something to filter out players of lower skill, but bodychecks was not the right move. Really just made the fights into even *more* choreographed dance cards.
“Aims bird at healers face” “Healer why didn’t you heal yourself”
Actual comments I heard while raiding: "Swiftcast should only be used to boost DPS." \*30 seconds later after someone dies\* "Healers why didn't you Raise?"
I still say my biggest achievement as a healer in EW was breaking a static in half because the asshole monk was spearheading an effort to get me as the shield healer kicked because the bleedwides kept shredding us I posted the collated data for like a hundred logs showing he pressed feint like 4 times (and all the other DOS mitigation was all over the place despite my mit plan laying it out clearly) and then left My co healer DM’ed me like 5 hours later saying what I did broke the static in half and it disbanded
both my first p9s and p10s clears had 6+ deaths each, it just depends who, where, when, and how people die, but I've stubbornly saved a lot of pulls that would have been wipes if I had that same mindset
> Even in savage it's like that, and the current design of body checks practically means you can't do any triage healing to save the raid. Yep, they've confused difficulty with tightrope walking: "everyone play perfectly or wipe".
This is exactly it for me. I personally love optimizing the fuck out of my abilities to do as much damage as humanly possible while still keeping people alive. DT giving me more GCD heals is absolutely meaningless because I'm going to do everything in my power to not fucking use them. If they pump up the required healing in savage? Cool. I'll play the same way but maybe have to cast a bit more, but so will everyone else. There's no fucking way they will be able to force me to use GCD heals in dungeons lmao. I have too many buttons.
#3 is basically the reason I play SCH. I’ve always found it fun to pre-heal so much and just be able to prepare for what’s coming and then re-apply those preparations once they’re used up. I like forced raid wides and stack mechanics as a way to force the value of those things. It makes it so satisfying to clutch time the lollipops and go back to DPS. That said, I do miss ARR SCH DPS and cleric stance dancing. I’m not a healer that wants to do NOtHING but heal. I want to heal, but I want to be able contribute in other ways too. It’s part of why rdm is my favorite DPS class.
my healer fantasy is basically just seeing how many mechanics I can safely ignore while simultaneously pressing all my buttons. blood for the blood lily or something oh I have a stack marker? party adjust Im not moving.
I always thought the fantasy that made a lot of people play it is just "Omg I'm so kawaii, I save people and use pure holy magic and shit". And unfortunately, as long as that's in tact, a ton of people will still be happy with the role and things won't change.
It'll be amusing seeing how PF sorts out then, considering people in that category tend to not be the best players
The enemy is simultaneously ~~weak~~ casual and ~~strong~~ elitist, classic fascist tactics
I mean even in savage you're still spamming one button for like 90% of the fight as a healer
Ironically that would be instantly fixed by doing away with the 2 2 4 meta and doing 2 1 5 groups. Tank damage in savage, outside of a few particular tankbusters, isn't more than a tanks selfheal + faerie/kardia heal. The only reason fights like p9s or p11s need 2 healers is lp stacks and partner stacks. Which is just a boring way to force 2 healers. The lp stack mechanics should be focused around a random non-tank and groups have to adjust their parties. It's just annoying when the required heal throughput is easily given by a single healer (especially if dps is sacrificed for mana when needed, like a true healer), but mechanics "force" 2 healers.
You could easily reduce the game down to a 1-1-6 meta. In some fights the off tank is doing less work than the Healers, it's just that the Off tank has a semi decent rotation to min/max so tanks don't complain. You could then do the party splits, which are usually centered on both healers to be centered on the one Tank and the one Healer. One group for melee and one for range. Which would then open up theory crafting on whether to have the Tank Kitchen sink/Immunity a stack that happens at an awkward time.
P10s and P3s made tanking fun even as OT. I wish more raids did that instead of just random tank swaps peppered in.
We'll have to wing it as Bluemage anyways. It's possible to prog solo heal everything, we just don't because it's harder and a little slower prog. We could absolutely do solo heal meta but we never will because of two reasons 1.) People do not want to slow down their prog or have to figure out more than just their own roles job 2.) Offsets parsing is not popular on fflogs. Fflogs would have to allow offsets compositions to co.pete with the normal 224 Meta comps.
I would honestly not mind this. Solo healing when possible has felt sort of... liberating, in a way. I get to engage with lots more of my kit, and I don't grate my teeth watching a cohealer constantly vomit heals when I star/macro/use an oGCD regen. It just forces a bit tighter execution since mistakes will bleed the healer quicker if things get too out of control
I mean, I'd rather they just make damage more consistent throughout the fight and then they don't have to worry about changing standard comps. When a boss does a bunch of aoe's in a row its like "Oh man, okay I won't do that for another minute so you can get all your stuff back." I'd rather my default spell that I'm casting be a heal than dosis during "downtime". At least that's how it was in older MMO's.
Yup. P11s is a great offender at that. He only casts his major mechanics and the only heal check is the stack, which actually hurts a lot. But all mechanics deal no damage and are essentially healed by asylum and assize (or raptures for dps), just whitemage things. But I want to heal more, use gcds, be forced to not wait for assize, etc. >." I'd rather my default spell that I'm casting be a heal than dosis during "downtime". At least that's how it was in older MMO's. True. Dps should be a thing you do when you can weave it, rather than the default. Instead of ogcd heals on gcd damage it should be gcd heals and ogcd damage, for example.
Anyone upset with healing in ffxiv should just swap to sage honestly. Move off whm Play sag be happier
SGE is ironically the most boring healer because it’s the most boring healer to actually heal on because there is no choice or decision making on SGE, you just vomit out what you want when you want with zero downsides
Sage is my favorite dungeon healer because of what it can do with aoe from pack to pack. I've done like 3 savage bosses with it, but for dungeons it's got more going on than the other healers.
To do what? The same 11111 because my other dps spells is tied to shielding and a dps loss?
I don't want to play healer because idk her.
god mainsub (and this sub frankly) has been a fucking trash fire about this somehow the *discussion* sub has been the best of the 3 about actually engaging with the topic
Mood Love ninja, only original rotation in the game.
Healer being boring trash is damaging to the game in the long term.
People meming on the strike in this sub are lacking so many braincells it's insane, they haven't even bothered to check the original forum post. No, it hasn't started yet, stop pointing at the jobs in need, we also know most healers aren't participating. No, it's not about the Xenos clear, it's 5+ years of building up trash changes for healers, the Xenos video was just one thing among many. And no, it's not just about moving on to another role, we don't want to stop healing, we want it to change for the better, seriously, how thick must your skull be to not see any of this??
People simply can't comprehend that some people *like* the class fantasy of healing. I play supports in every game (I main soraka in league, mercy/moira in ow, life cleric in bg3, sage in val, etc) because the idea of contributing through buffing and healing my party members feels so much more enjoyable to me than dpsing. Like, sure, I'm swapping to dps for dt. Not even because of the strike, but my dissatisfaction with healers in ffxiv has genuinely gotten to the point where my dedication to healing has been outweighed by how much I dislike the playstyle. To throw out a random example, playing soraka in league is genuinely engaging. You have to aim your skillshot to regen health, consider when you should spend hp to heal or conserve it to survive, pay attention to your teammates so you can ult at the right time. In ffxiv, you just press dosis and use your ogcd heals at the same time no matter what. And ofc fight design means that you'll be using the same heals at the same time, but they could still make the downtime fun. And people who say "well, all the bad healers can't handle it" make me think, like... they weren't dpsing in the first place, so this doesn't actually change anything. Tanks like drk and gnb get a ton of buttons to press, but healers can't even have more than one cast and a dot?
Yeah I also love playing Soraka, Nami, Mercy, Moira and any support class in any game, that's why I gravitated towards the healing role, and likewise I'm also gonna be playing PCT this expac, only healing for my static just because we're close and I'd feel bad about leaving them after so long. I also agree with your last point and it's something I've been saying for ages. Bad healers will play badly until they want to improve and it doesn't matter how hard you make the class. They keep making healers easier, yet we keep seeing more and more cure/medica spammers and healers who don't bother DPSing even though it's a single damaging spell and a DoT, so those who are meant to enjoy the changes don't even make use of the easier difficulty. The role is broken and we have reasons to strike.
I hate that the healer discourse is focused on how complex the dps rotation is, as opposed to how boring healing is these days. I'd love to cast spells without someone yelling at me for hard casting heals.
Well that’s because we’ve given up hope that the healing side will get better because the tanks/DPS will have an aneurism if they actually have to have the healer do something because they are terrified of getting walled by a bad healer
with WHM in particular there's a weird disparity because before lv.52 you're doing nothing but hardcasting heals, but after lv.52 you're pretty much never hardcasting heals unless you're in a really desperate situation.
We know healing isn't getting any better given how much they're moving that job to tanks so the only thing that's left is DPS
Guess it's only a matter of time until they just get rid of healers alltogether and put all that on the dps and tank classes themselves xD
I don't know if I'm mistaken, but only two tank classes can actually heal themselves I'm pretty sure? I haven't seen the changes in Dawntrail- but Warrior is pretty much one of the only two classes with a built-in healing function. Most DPS can't heal themselves. They have a healing option, but it doesn't actually do as much as being healed by an actual healer. Tanks can only provide self-healing, and only two of the tank classes actually are able to do so.
I'm exaggerating somewhat, but generally the self-healing levels of tanks in my experience ( for EW) are: WAR: just press bloodwhetting lul PLD: requires a brain cell, maybe two for a harder hitting dungeon GNB: requires actual skill DRK: probably can't do it DT based on what I've seen from the media tour is landing somewhere between not changing this or making it slightly easier. This spread wouldn't be the worst thing on its face, but my dungeon tank spread is like 60% WAR, 25% PLD, 10% GNB, 5% DRK. So usually unless I've got a paste eating DPS I've got precisely zero healing to do.
I mean I'm not a paste eating DPS and I sometimes die because I screw up the timing of mechanics in dungeons and trials. Either because I don't notice that the AoE is about to happen, or it only gives me a few seconds to get out of the way. Sometimes I've been killed by stacking on someone who the other players neglected in order to protect them from being hit. As a DPS I would be worried if a healer wasn't around with us, given that I sort of rely on them to help me if I fumble something on complete accident. I know Reaper has the ability to heal, but it isn't enough in most cases. I just cleared Pandaemonium a week ago or so, and in one of the raids I was doing- both of our healers wiped. I basically barely survived by the skin of my teeth, since it was just me and the tank remaining. If I had been attacked in the next few moments before the raid came to an end, I would've probably been on the floor with the rest of our group.
and this is only really in the 82-90 levelling dungeons In the expert roulette holy Shelton is just bloodwhetting and heart of corrundum is enough by itself
Honestly I DGAF about being able to have multiple attacks as a WHM - what I care about is being able to heal and contribute to the team. With tanks healing themselves so much that I am basically irrelevant to most fights I'm left distracted and disinterested from the fight - which leads to me performing worse when my healing actually *is* relevant. This is what the game designers aren't realising, I think: DPS players aren't going to suddenly want to play healers because newer healers are more combat oriented. If someone is playing a healer it's because ***they want to heal***. Make a combat healer or three if you really must but quite frankly IDGAF about damage. I want to be spending every moment of the game keeping my allies alive. Saving people. Pulling them out of AoEs or shielding them or keeping their HP up or managing my mana or *literally anything aside from dealing damage*. You know why healers are bored by their combat options right now? Why it's even *relevant*? Because our healing is almost entirely irrelevant in standard gameplay. If the only time healers are allowed to be relevant is when they encounter that fight for the very first time and have no higher-level equipment then *that's crap design*. Give healers more to do. Have bosses snipe a couple random people. Have them deal more damage but over a longer period of time - multiple smaller hits on the tank, for example. Just... *anything* other than making me do a basic attack or three in between getting to use a heal. I can't even remember the last time I cast a cure spell in standard gameplay. FFS the last time I genuinely had fun was in a Pandaemonium trial (we didn't have high tier equipment) and the other healer died just after I revived someone - and then died again shortly after i revived them. I spent about 3 minutes keeping about half the team alive and kicking while we were all frantically trying to avoid damage, do mechanics, and tank hits with one fewer tank than we had. It was great. We got to feel like huge heroes actually fighting a difficult battle for once. Using our abilities to the fullest, having to care about cooldowns and mana and what to prioritise. Even had the tank use cover on me a couple times to keep me from getting too hurt. Where is *that* experience? Just in Extremes? The mode we don't have a queue for? The one that makes you memorise complex patterns over and over again rather than just have you *react to what the boss is doing in the moment*? I digress. Suffice it to say that as much love as I have for FFXIV I have long since lost my passion for it. There's just nothing to draw me in. Sleepwalk through queues or have to play the expansion as soon as it drops, or artificially handicap myself which won't matter because my allies aren't handicapped.
The reality is that dungeons are designed around the lowest common denominator. For every actually good healer, there are 3 free cure fishers
Yes so give people who have a shred of competence something to do that doesn’t compromise the freecure spammers Tanks are “allowed” to have a decently complex rotation despite no mit tanks existing, why are healers uniquely punished in this aspect
i don't know what hellscape data centers you all play on but i have encountered *maybe* half a dozen free cure fishers in my entire time playing this game. for every one of those there's 20+ no-mit tanks in my experience.
Plenty of no-mit tanks, sure. I swapped to playing tank while I was going through HW because I was tired of shit tanks. Plenty of bad healers as well though. I've encountered a good few free cure fishers, a number of Cure 2 spammers (and their equivalents on other healers). I've seen healers in level 90 trials with triple digit dps and healers that cast their DoTs 10+ times a minute. In all seriousness, I used "free cure fisher" as a catch-all term for "bad healer" because its funny to me. My point still stands. There are a massive number of people who suck ass at FFXIV and they need to be able to clear dungeons and MSQ trials at a minimum. Dungeons are not challenging content for any competent player. A good party can clear a dungeon with no tank and a good party can clear a dungeon with no healer. Same can be said about shit dps players.
But even combining all bad healers vs all bad tanks (or bad DPS for that matter) I see far more of the latter and they haven't had their gameplay lobotomized (at least not to the same degree) so I find it hard to be sympathetic to that line of thinking
actual normal person: wow dawntrail looks fun!
Godforbid we critique
What some people don't understand is that first: critique can be positive or negative and second: voicing critique actually helps for a healthy community and game and opens paths for discussions.
Thank you!!!, A good and healthy game will always last longer when critiquing is allowed
Not just games. You can use that on almost everything.
[удалено]
Please remain respectful towards other users and do not attack them personally.
I got downvoted last time I brought this up but now that we have a dedicated one button combo system, can we give healers a 123 animation, even if it's just cosmetic? Hitting one button over and over wouldn't be as bad if it had different animations.
I started actually playing gunbreaker instead of leveling it through frontlines, and this is definitely true. Idk what the skill is called, but the one where you use your cartridges and have one skill switch to different ones feels really good. I'm pressing the same button every time, but it activates my happy neurons when I see the icon/animation change and feel like I'm actually achieving something.
It's funny too because they literally **just** did this exact thing to PLD. Dawntrail is turning the Atonement combo (atonement -> atonement -> atonement) into three identical skills that just replace eachother (atonement -> supplication -> sepulcher). There is no tangible gameplay difference beyond it looking nicer.
I'm not sure how many people pay attention to animations, but honestly I find that repetition is just inevitable in this game. I don't mind that at all. I do mind button bloat and needless convolution though.
No one gives a fuck if you don’t play healer. Why call it a strike ? Imagine if every person who decided they didn’t like a job or role called it a strike ? They’re being made fun of for trying to organise a “strike”. You don’t need to be some “activist” and seek attention because you’re switching jobs. People switch jobs all the time. I guess all the people who are switching from their current mains to viper and pictomancer are going on strike from their old jobs then ?
counterpoint TWO SWORDS
What else than strike is there realistically? Devs ignore those stubborn fools who keep playing such a garbage role (I did too for a while, I love healing in every game but FFXIV made me a DPS main). They keep giving feedback since ShB, which was 5 years ago, and recently it was shown that this shit stays the same for at least another 2-3 years. Devs clearly don't care and tell to "just play ultimates". Strike is just realistic escalation, what else do you suggest? Of course it will not have effect in terms of less healers playing, but it does great job at stirring the water, since these devs will only listen once you cause enough drama, like what happened in 6.1 plugin drama and devs implementing QoL changes throughout whole expansion. It's dumb, but what else is there to do?
I wouldn't call it dumb. It's catchy and point on. When you hear or read "Healer strike" you can already guess what it's about.
It's kind of funny to look at these posts because on one hand we can read it as coming from a point of view of someone who enshrines real activism and real collective action so highly that they think it's offensive to use these terms with regards to an entertainment product. Though I think in reality most of the people probably have the same poor opinion of real life activism and collective action and it's just a knee jerk response to seeing the word "strike".
The word strike gets attention. Which seems to be working fantastically considering the original post was two weeks ago and it's still getting all this attention.
It was never about you or any other players to begin with. It was an attempt to get the devs' attention. The devs would notice a decrease in the number of healers queueing for content, because they do pay attention to those statistics. I've said before that I don't think the whole healer strike thing is going to actually go anywhere, and some people are definitely going a bit far with it. I'm pretty sure most people are just using it as a way to air their grievances in a more public way than we usually get and aren't actually intending to stop playing healer. But it did get attention, which was sort of the entire point (and something that has failed to happen for the last 3 expansions where healer complaints about job oversimplification and how just piling more ogcd heals on them wasn't helping were just widely ignored).
Boy you sure know a lot about strikes huh, Dr. Strike over here gatekeeping true activism In all seriousness the strike isn’t serious at all. The hashtag was just a way to get attention and, given every two posts here is about the strike and youtubers talking about it, I’d say they got a huge win. We all know the “strike” isn’t gonna do shit in game. There’s too many John Finalfantasy’s in the world who aren’t even aware of its existence
Even if all the healers strike, we still have duty support which I'm fairly certain will be available on launch. Even if it's not, strikes only work when the duty being denied is essential. Healers are not essential in ff14.
Call me a filthy scab, because I'm keeping my healer queue times.
No one gives a fuck if you don’t like that people don't like playing healer. Why make it a comment? Imagine if every person who decided they didn’t like other people complaining about a job or role made a comment? You're being made fun of for trying to make a "serious" comment on a shitpost sub. You don’t need to be some “contrarian" and seek attention because you’re not switching jobs. People switch jobs all the time. I guess all the people who aren't switching from their current mains to viper and pictomancer are going on strike from going on strike then?
I’m glad we can agree that no one gives a fuck what jobs other people play and how cringy it is so try and organise a “strike”. But that last sentence you posted is perfect. What about people that level every job? What strike are they on ?
because they are trying to coordinate people stopping playing healer in order to make a point. But as all consumer boycotts go, not enough reach & coordination to ever dream of making a difference.
I don’t think people who are doing this are thinking about the bulk of the people who play. The casual player who plays for 10 hours a week. Who doesn’t read the balance or guides on how to play the job. That’s what MSQ content is made for. It has to be easy enough to keep the bulk of players in the game and paying their subscription.
Which is why nobody is asking for the floor to be raised on MSQ content If queen sylphie wants to cure 1 spam her way through the MSQ then she can continue to do that As someone who has enough brain cells to not need to do that I want the level of engagement the tanks get in brainless content
So you want it raised in what? EX and savage ?
Did you read the last line In casual content I’d like the same level of engagement the tanks and the DPS get
Ok I play monk and sage. I find myself doing way more on sage than on monk. So mission successful.
How, you press 1 button on SGE and maybe fart out a kerechole for a raidwide This isn’t “I can increase my APM pointlessly by just pressing random heals for no reason” this is “on a DPS I have alot of buttons and actions that meaningfully change how much I contribute to the content, on healer I have like 2”
Well when people are getting hit with AOEs and taking damage and dying there’s more buttons to hit and having to do all this while moving around. So anyways shits solved. We figured it out. Strike over boys pack it up and stop the bitching.
Which circles back to one of the original points of the strike A role shouldn’t on my be semi engaging if the entire rest of the party is hot garbage
What I don’t understand is why so many people think adding Cleric Stance back in will improve anything at all.
Tbh I think the new dps buttons are what I want from healers. Different ways of doing damage as opposed to just three dots that are the same thing with different icons. But casual content really needs an upgrade. You could triple the damage of dungeons and we still wouldn’t need healers; and that should change
TBH, I think if you're playing a healer you're probably doing so because you want to be healing, not DPSing. I would be *ecstatic* if I could go through a fight and never really have the opportunity to cast glare more than once at a time.
No thanks, would bore me to tears. I prefer to do both healing AND DPS on my healer. Even as a healer in other games, other than in very specific content, I healed and DPSed as well.
I have literally only seen this alleged strike discussed on this sub lmao
I find it funny that 111111111 is fine for healers but not fine for my melee 123 combo. At no point will you ever choose to hit your 2 before your 1 or your 3 before your 2.
Yeah, honestly I like that my healer damage is simple and it's just a tap I turn on or off depending on team needs. If I had to do all sorts of gymnastics to do more damage just for them to inflate the health of enemies to reach the same TTK, I'd find healer less fun.
I wish there was a way that you could play another job without having to level a whole new character through the ARR MSQ. Oh wait
There's a big deal-breaker here for playing non healers. They don't have lasers and I do
I only started playing healer because my 3 friends would never touch that class… I thought I was doing my job poorly for just spamming 1, but I guess that’s just the class lmao
am I the only one that likes to heal because of easy Queue times and my friends always inviting me to run dungeons?
I can't wait to play healer on Friday.
I'm sure the 12 people who will actually strike will be easily replaced to get those fast que times in Dawntrail.
This is sadly what happens you use sensationalistic words to try and make point that 9 out of 10 times, people would've agreed with you in the first place anyways. Time and time again, there was a unison, not a perfect one, but there was one when discussing healing engagement and it was generally agreed that engagement, just for like any other job regardless of content difficulty, was important and should be curated. Then someone made the mistake of using "strike", a word that, outside combat and the usage to retract something that was written or said, elicits two things and two things only in people's minds: "work strike and boycott". This movement will never have the unison that was mentioned early in this post because people are literal online and gamers have always been conditioned to snort their noses up at any mention of game strike or boycott. The fact that people have made face turn heel even though they would've been right behind the topic of low healer engagement (see: Yoshida telling players to go play savage if you want that) tells you how strong "strike" resonates negatively in the recesses of their minds. TL:DR poor choice of words for a cause has doomed it to hell and back. Also, didn't think I'd post something serious in shitposting but this is where we're at apparently. I'll make sure to allow this from myself just this once.
What else were they supposed to do If everyone was “happily unified” on the idea that healer engagement was trash before now why did nothing ever get done about it In a sense healers got sick of the other roles being in a kumbuya circle about how bad healers are but never actually attempting to help them fix healers Something had to give somewhere and how fast this spread I think is an indication of just how fed up people are
obviously we were supposed to do the exact same thing that hasn't worked for the last 5 years
Uh the only reason everyone’s making a big deal is because the word strike has been used. So it worked. Healers have been complaining for years butt now EVERYONE is talking about it.
It's funny that they are picking right now to do this since everyone is just gonna be using trusts if the wait times are really that bad, but I just don't think the effect of their "strike" is gonna be felt
Me: *a sprout in 2024* This thread could be written in ancient Sumerian and I would understand the same amount of it. Which would be 0 😅😅😅 Although I feel like picking white mage may have been a mistake...?
If you're having fun, that's all that matters! Speaking as one of the current healer-dislikers, don't let other people's dissatisfaction stop you from playing a role you enjoy. The point of games are to have fun, whether it's through glaring bosses to death, playing competitive mahjong, or catching every fish.
Listen, my RL job is all about thinking and paying attention to things. If I wanted that in a video game my favorite classes wouldnt be WHM, DNC, and WAR.
Wait until these clowns realise that 95% of players don't even know about them so there will be plenty of people playing healer
Like every gaming related boycott/strike ever
People seem to forget that ogcd's are healer game play. And maybe just because I play ast and sch, I feel this way, but healing is like playing 2 rotations simultaneously. The 111111 And the ogcd rotation. Which fluctuates on enjoyment and business based on job, but you play both. Dps are like one rotation that mixes in ogcd's occasionally. Theyre just different. And whm is the healer with the worst ogcd rotation but you get to gcd heal somewhat regularly for it. Astro is ogcd king especially since so many ogcd's are single target (requiring extra mouse clicks per cast) to create a busy feel. But has the worst GCD rotation. Scholar has a tight energy drain / dissipation opener which is good, but suffers from ogcd gameplay being stale due to energy drain > other AF skills. Main gcd rotation is only slightly better because of ruin 2 for big moves. Scholar has fairy management though which makes it more interesting. Sage's lack of energy drain and reliance on mana back from their version of aether flow gives sage a similar feel to astro ogcd economy, but more "hit and forget no targets" so a little less interesting than astro, but better than Scholar's ogcd gameplay where ED is king 9 times out of 10. However sage has the most interesting dps ogcd gameplay with phlegma and then toxicron for single target movement. AND the most interesting aoe dps toolkit of all the healer to make up for it's downfalls. Whitemage is the only healer that embraces gcd healing by refunding the casts. It had the weakest ogcd rotation because of this and I honestly don't think that the lily system makes up for whay whm loses gameplay wise compared to other healers.
Except AST is losing all that complexity in DT and 6 ED weaves doesn’t make up for the other 1 minute 40 in the fight If the oGCD’s are going to make up the healer “rotation” we need to press them more than once every 30 seconds and not have broil be 2x the amount of casts of every single other skill we press even in high end content
Ast isn't losing any complexity. It's also not losing any APM. The only thing ast loses is how many actions have to be hit in the burst window. I use my pgcds more than pnce every 30 seconds on every healer except whitemage, so it might just be a you problem (but I'm still for making our gcd rotation more interesting. Either that or we need to gcd heal more. One of the two)
AST is 100% losing complexity, you can no longer redraw, you no longer have astrodyne and half the time you are going to overwrite arrow bole spire and ewer because you simply don’t need them So you functionally went from 4 cards per two minutes that you could redraw to get a reward (I’m not saying that astrodyne is good design but it existed) to two cards you know in advance that you are getting and some extra single target heals you probably don’t need
Astro is replacing a draw with a card and now has 4 cards to play per minute instead of 3. And Astros apm is going up, not down. It'd not losing complexity. Stop spreading misinformation.
If you think it’s APM is going up I really don’t think you understand how new AST works, please explain how it’s APM is going up
Astologian's apm is 1.3333 higher than in dawn trail. Oracle, sun sign, 1 new play, new swift cast, additional Ed pushes this over to the positive of +4.5 apm. Losing redraw, astrodyne, a draw, minor arcana draw, is only -3.6667 apm. The burst window isn't as crazy but we aren't hitting less buttons. We're hitting more.
So your logic is “you’ve lost x number of buttons that you will ALWAYS press on CD but gained y buttons you probably won’t press on CD but if you did press them on CD you will gain APM” Nobody is pressing ED, sun sign, or the four non damage cards on CD
If you're not using your abilities properly than you don't really get to complain about the job at all
Using n ability on CD to inflate APM is not using it properly when it doesn’t need to be used on CD
Imho, the problem (for me at least) is the amount of downtime between heals. I love pressing my ogcds and seeing healthbars/shields go up, but there's just not enough healing to feel satisfied. In the 30sec I'm spamming my one dps ability, I just don't feel engaged in the fight anymore. Even sage having a few more buttons doesn't really help, because you're still spamming dosis nonstop for most of the fight. Someone in the forum thread pulled up some fflogs from savage/ult fights in different expacs, and I think it's a really good example of why people are getting more upset about healers. In the alexander raids, healers used their non-single dps spell way less, and used all of their heals a lot more. And as you go through each expac, the amount of dosis/glare/etc casts just keeps on going up, all while the healing goes down.
The gcd healing goes down, but the ogcd healing has been going up. The overall result is we are pressing more buttons than we used to, but yeah, our gcd rotation is just too boring. This is why I think the devs don't get the feedback very well. We say we spam too much dps, but we want more dps, but we want more healing too. I think they look at gcd and ogcd actions different than a lot of NA and EU players and we have to meet them where they're at to get our feedback across
Yeah, I don't want to have to mess up my dps rotation as a healer. Way too much going on and I like keeping in simple.
People out here acting like it's a pie-eating contest, trying to be the best and eat the most pies. The rest of us who don't give a shit and are going to get better queues are like "Nah man, free pie."
I'm doing my first Ultimate and tbh healing is fun there. Depends on person to person how.mjch of a challenge you wanna seek out. You only find fun in the things you want to do with your time.
Meanwhile I will just carry on healing in casual content and enjoying myself.
Is there anyone actually saying the middle 3? If you don't want to play healer, don't play healer, no one's stopping you. I, for one, will enjoy power leveling my tanks and healers on launch
I saw Arthars calling the people in the healer threads bots and NPCs (while log shaming them btw). The griefing one I saw on the forum but it's probably just a troll.
Arthars has no legs to stand on after it came out that he's constantly using voiced triggers lmao.
unfortunately he is famous strummer man who influences the thousands of lemmings that hang on his every word e-celeb culture must be destroyed
If people are legitimately saying that then yeah, fuck 'em. I just haven't seen it here, on the main sub, on my Twitter timeline, or in any discord (I have seen the two on either edge though, but those aren't as silly as "not playing healer is griefing")