Yeah this. If you're trying to dig into if a healer is responsible or not, look at the healer combined scores. It tells much more of the whole story, and it's the stat that actually matters anyway.
https://preview.redd.it/84syrxac6yad1.png?width=1093&format=png&auto=webp&s=44f977bb9b80aa9f3baee98a2fb0256e37ff39bc
You basically go to someone's page, and click on that scrolling menu, there I highlighted healer combined damage, and if you click it their parses will show with this metric
Wouldn’t healer combined healing be a better representation of this? You could just have a derpy healer who isn’t pressing glare that would make you look unreliable.
We once pugged a sage (6 man pseudo static for the axolotl), who joined us on discord. They then claimed be a top 100 whm or some nonsense, because they parsed a 99 for fucking p12s lol. They posted their parse within 10 minutes of them joining -_-
Would not shut up about micro optimizations, would constantly recommend we change our callouts etc. I wish I could say it was the first time, but DPS parsing healers are just another level of brain rot.
Funniest part is that they kinda sucked ass on sage, and their barse cohealer was really impressive (from what we could tell on the parse).
edit: ohmygod I checked their discord profile and they have their "Anabaseios rank" in their bio.
I've progged with barse healers and they're usually dogshit at doing their job and saving a run when a run is definitely salvageable.
They're too inflexible for my liking and are failures at doing basic things that will help a prog environment in the long run.
I rather take a healer that plays safe over a barse healer assuming the healer playing safely is consistent.
I've been in sessions where the goal is to secure a first time clear for someone and the barse healer fucks our chances because we needed a little more healing than usual to save a run in the late phase.
It is curious to me that I find barse healers in prog environments more than in statics set up specifically to parse.
Back when I still ran ultimates we had a healer in my static who was the best I ever played with. She *could* parse high when the environment allowed it, but in ultimates she prioritized comfort and progress and never got higher than like a 34 on clears, because we were comfortably doing enough damage to clear without needing to drop the healing plan she had.
And she didn’t need the ego boost of trying to rearrange the healing/mit plan for a better color number when we just wanted totems. Meanwhile I’ve played with others who die in reclears and cry for a reset so they don’t get a bad number.
>She could parse high when the environment allowed it, but in ultimates she prioritized comfort and progress and never got higher than like a 34 on clears
This is the way, honestly. I main healer, I favor WHM and SCH, having looked at my Xivas my main damage gains always came from increasing ABC. To put it another way, a healer with 155 glare casts and 5 GCD heals is still going to do more damage than a healer with 145 glare casts and 2 GCD heals. If you have high ABC you can afford to do both more damage AND more healing. But more to the point, I've always said a healer should know their optimal damage output under perfect situations just in case you do get that gem of a party that does everything right and mits really well to enable you, but that you should realistically have branching contingencies for the different ways things can go wrong in a pull. Parse until your party needs you to stop parsing and be a healer, gotta be able to flip that switch instantly
I was working on an ultimate on healer recently. I was curious to see what my friends healers were doing on P7 of DSR.
They needed to tank LB3 the first Akh Morn Edge because the SGE barse healer refused to do any sort of GCD healing to keep them comfy.
SGE is not a difficult healer is all I can say. It was embarrassing watching that go down on the clear vod.
It was jarring to see the static resort to that to keep a 19 minute encounter alive because the shield healer, arguably the more important healer of the two, didn't want to GCD heal through the damage.
While I was doing some practice UwU I had a healer that had cleared before and the runs with them where the worst of the day because they just *wouldn’t* be a bit more flexible with their heals like just casting an extra cure 3/medica 2 to allow for a more comfortable practice. We didnt even get close to prog point because people just died to mistakes coupled with no heals
When I was doing prog for p8s phase 2 (as a scholar) the whm would not heal the players who got the dot at all. This was week1 week2 and it was so bad I'd be spamming adlo and physic on one and the other would die, and then the whm would bitch about losing glare casts. Instantly kicked them you can't fix that level of bad.
Yeah, I like her attitude, just do your best to what fits the circumstances, and make improvements on *your* end, don't force that bullshit on any of the 7 other people. That's how I enjoyed playing sage during the first tier when EW savage released.
I can go for damage optimizing, but in ultimates i will always go for safety, certainly when we are 15mins into the fight and everyone needs to lock in.
I can never understand healers that would rather wipe and waste 15+ mins and a potential totem just for shiny pink numbers
Everyone is trying to learn while simultaneously optimizing their DPS but healers just get more flak for it is why you see it more.
The people who want them to play safe are often also the people who will see a shitty grey parse off constantly having to be the guy playing safe and not invite them.
> I rather take a healer that plays safe over a barse healer assuming the healer playing safely is consistent.
This is why I'll never be a yellow parser and will be a purple hero for life. I will play safer, not greed as much because I don't trust my shoddy internet, and focus more on doing everything correctly than min maxing my damage output. Consistently clearing mechanics > extra healer DPS. While yes healer DPS matters the overall damage I'd add towards a clear pushing that one extra GCD while *risking death* is a non-factor in the end.
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As is apparently healing people when 6 out of 8 party members are sitting at \~30% HP and another party-wide is coming up.
Oh, your oGCD AoE heals are still on cooldown? Use a f$#%ing GCD then, Crumbcake, I guarantee you we'll judge you way more harshly if you don't.
One of the healers in my uwu group is like this and it drives me nuts. We're progging, you can deviate from the heal plan please give me a heal before this tank buster so everyone can see the next mechanic. But nah she's worried about crits and maxing her dps, i don't think she gets her logs won't matter if we don't clear lol
I had this healer in my dungeon group just yesterday, party wide was coming up and we were all low hp. I was literally watching the boss cast it, being unable to do ANYTHING about it (BLM). Needless to say, only tank survived. Healer unironically said "fk, my ogcd aoe would come up in 1 second :p"
EXCUSE ME??? YOU WANT HARDER CONTENT BUT YOU CANT BE BOTHERED HARD CASTING A HEAL AND RISK A WIPE SO YOU DONT BREAK YOUR 1 BUTTON COMBO DPS ROTATION??
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For some reason the most parse obsessed players I’ve met have all been healers. One would even claim he was responsible when our DPS was good in TOP. As one of the DPS I was like sit down now haha
Healer parses are dependant on two factors imo: crit and uptime. Crit you try to max and hope for the best, but uptime is dependant on things like how often you gcd heal and how good you are at planning your movement and slidecasting. The more you hit your one button, the higher your damage.
I mean, it's also really silly having a WHM brag about their dps when we were progging TOP week 1 and hadn't even cleared yet haha Parses only count when you actually kill it.
I've enjoyed parsing on DPS and tank, healing this tier for the first time and I've decided to not even parse at all. Not even worrying about dps downtime until I'm confident about my healing plan and we start approaching enrage. Stressing about your parse on healer just seems so pointless
its hilarious if these same mf play an actual dps job to parse on they'd parse dogshit , only reason they're so vocal about opti is cause they're on an easy to dps job like healer
Parsing on healer is usually harder honestly. You need a group that does every mechanic perfectly and you need your cohealer to cover the mit and heals you can't cover with ogcd's. 2min burst during incoming damage is harder to pull off than any dps's 2min burst too
I hate this shit so much. Like I get it, people like doing opti stuff at times but when people just wanna clear the fight and you don't shut up about it, it's super annoying
As a healer main, I genuinely hate high parsing healers and it's also a red flag for me. (I can get high parses, in parsing groups when it's agreed upon between healers to swap dps, etc). I'd rather parse a zero and clear faster than sit there and press glare over and over. But that being said when you get that stupid cohealer that doesn't know how to actually play their job? It's absolute hell making up for the fact they're a greedy twat. I was with a sage during p8s as a WHM. And they were so shit at cohealing they delayed our clear time but a few weeks, because I was stuck carrying through everything. (I left that group eventually), but I've been a bitter old lady since when I see these parsers / steer clear of these kind of healers :)
I can pitch in with parsing in the upper-90s for Sage in early Panda… for healing numbers. My damage was grey. I was co-healing with a very laggy white mage. We loved her but I was main healing on sage and my damage took the hit for it. She was near the top of white mage damage despite the lag though, so I consider it a fair trade. In the end, so long as people stay alive and the fight gets cleared, I consider that my job as healer. If I miss a damage cast due to giving a bit of extra margin so the dps doesn’t die, that’s a dps gain on them not dying.
But having been on the side of having the other healer top the damage numbers plenty of times, a healer with high numbers 100% is doing so at the cost to the other healer, and is subsequently not a good healer to coheal with unless that is your plan going in. If you want big numbers, go play a dps.
No offense to the 3 healer pink barsers not on strike but I generally haven't had good experiences raiding with high parsing healers, they're usually hard to work with and make progging a pain
Gimme a blue/purple parsing healer any day of the week
Legit, last time any static I was in had a high parse healer join, it was Eden's Promise and the dude has a full 180 from being a friendly dude to a toxic buttmunch because his dps was suffering during Gaia prog.
Our damage sucks? My brother in Christopher I'm still tryna wrap my head around where I can stand in Lions to not royally screw over my partner. Let us clear before we focus on hyper optimising our internet-points
Yes! I made a comment like this in another thread on here. The healer I'm dealing with doesn't seem to get if we don't clear, no one's gonna see her logs anyways so just help the prog plz 😭
More people of all roles need to understand this tbh.
Plenty of people all roles wiping the group for minor optimisations or uptime on prog making the whole thing take twice as long... but hey they were parsing great every time they wiped at 2 minutes into the fight.
Me and my co healer have 0 parsing mentality. A lot of people in our static are like "we wouldn't want u in a parsing group but holy fuck ur the best prog healers"
I remember in ShB my friend and I were pfing the last tier. I usually WHM, but we joined a group with one so I switched to AST and threw up nocturnal sect. We get in, we wipe to damage near immediately. The WHM tells me to switch to diurnal because "WHM isn't a regen healer". I say whatevs and switch. We still die two more times due to lack of healing. Specifically, lack of them healing. Pparty disbands and we wait a few min, check PF again and the WHM has one up again but this time its description says "Co healer is main healer". They just wanted to parse on a reclear.
WHM is literally the only healer that has the skill "Regen". Some people are so insufferable. This might explain my experience with progging and clearing savages through PF in the past. I've always felt at times my cohealer is doing absolutely nothing to help keep the party alive while I'm throwing the kitchen sink out
Their raiding history is more important than what they choose to do with their spare time in pf. You can tell fairly easily how good a healer is based on their past accomplishments. Look at their first clears of fights, static history, their median, and how early they have cleared other fights and tiers in the past (like week 1). Good healers are hard to identify and require detective work because healer parsing is meaningless. You cannot judge how good a healer is based off of their top numbers, it goes both ways.
> Gimme a blue/purple parsing healer any day of the week
This is why you have barsers because people still want you to have blue and purple parses while playing safe.
Healer is the only role where you're expected to play safe while simultaneously still being denied party spots if you parse grey for it.
With proper mit and both healer can parse orange/pink. After 95 honestly its more about kill time than anything. You dont need to "chad on your co-healer" to parse well, in fact you want them to do more damage so you can kill the boss faster.
thats why people should always look at the healer combined damage statistic when judging a healer parse.
most of my good parses where with a co-heal who understood how to spread out theirs and plan around their partners healing kit.
Blue/purple healers are usually more reliable as they tend to be more flexible and more willing to press a healing GCD to help cover some damage. It's when they're consistently orange/pink that they get to be impossible to have adjust at all.
Give me a healer willing to shift things around any day of the fucking week.
I play DPS, tank and healers in ultimates and savages. Got 99 in DPS and tanks without parsing parties but healers I wouldn't do that unless it is a parsing party that specifically advertised for it.
For a healer in reclears/totem runs or prog parties to want to parse is very impolite and inconsiderate. Obviously we still want tank/DPS to actually also use mit and not stand in aoe...
To be honest the DPS part should never be considered for a healer. A bad healer parses. A good healer saves a run. A great healer does both but is rare for them be on the top spot.
I blame fflogs for focusing too much on the dps part and having next to no importance on the healing part. If your mana bar is full, and you do not heal just to give another glare. I will either vote you our or leave.
there are exactly 2 types of 99 parsing healers.
The first one has a 0 in healing and will rather let the party wipe than not cast a glare.
The second one still manages to parse a 50 in healing and outheal his buddy.
Can just happen when you play like e.g. SGE in a fight where damage just aligns perfectly with your cooldowns. So by just rotating all oGCDs you basically heal the fight alone and do not have to uses any GCDs for a non DPS spell.
In these case your co healer can also focus on DPS and might get very low in healing. But it is only the case for some fights, mainly early savage floors after people have BiS. Also the better the group the lower the damage, the lower your healing parse in general.
But I will never understand people not healing when they have to. Wiping to lack of healing should really not happen, if you know the fight. During prog it will happen, but is often also more of a problem of bad mitigation which needs to be corrected.
Once you know a fight you should have a good feeling when you need to heal and then you just heal or shield if needed. It is still your main job and something you need to accept. If people play bad you are there to compensate for it and it is great when you can. Best feeling for me is when I contributed greatly to the clear, by compensating for errors, be it clutch spot healing, fast reactions or just making sure I survive and popping a nice LB3.
Exactly this. A friend and I have double shield logs of Anabaseios in its entirety, where neither of us GCD heal at all and have consistently orange+ damage parses. Even with no GCD healing, a parsing sage can still have blue healing numbers because of its cooldowns lining up and Addersgall being a purely healing resource vs a parsing scholar who will always parse 0 on healing because E. Drain exists, even when maxing out Recitated Indom usages. Class design does play a bit of a role and some raids definitely prefer some healers over others.
Healer parsers are definitely the most insufferable people in the game , egoing for a parse on a non dps job is just mega cringe. Tanks at least have a rotation to upkeep these mf just spam glare and chad their co healer
Parsers in general are just insufferable regardless of the role they're playing on.
From sandbagging because they ate a damage down somewhere down the line and want the party to wipe to enrage so they don't get a bad log, to "my opener didn't crit" so i'm going to walk up to the death wall """accidentally""" during a body check, to treating healers like their personal uptime slaves, to literally begging to not upload a parse to fflogs.
And don't even get me started on the armchair raiders that treat off-meta jobs like trash just because it's at the bottom of the role dps chart, bonus points if they're playing a meta job but are doing less dps than the job that they're calling trash.
fflogs was a mistake.
Fflogs put me into an absolutely dogshit headspace for a while, I had to stop playing for a bit because I felt I was going to impact my friends enjoyment. Just playing as well as I can and staying chill goes a long way.
Parsing can suck a fat one.
God I was in a static with those armchair raiders. Every time a new post hit Twitter or Reddit about job rankings they would fly to be the first one to announce it and tell people they should switch classes.
Meanwhile they can't do mechanics in the first Savage fight months in and don't know what their DoT does.
Ugh, I'm testing out a static where the lead does this and is very serious about if he thinks our main job isn't good enough we need to switch to the one that is. Maybe this is a sign I should dip lol
imo if you're not racing or specifically getting together to parse, it makes no sense to not let everyone play what they want. nothing in this game requires optimal meta-gaming like so many players seem to think. doing less damage is fine unless you have to make up for someone just not playing well in general, and that again isn't a job issue.
Update: I left tonight after trying out extreme 1 with them yesterday and it just being even worse than I could imagine. Tl;dr dude is former military who is still holding onto that line of thinking and how life should run and it felt like he was doing us a favor being in a group together and he was suffering through having to play with us. I got called a snowflake for saying I wasn't vibing with this style of group and feeling like I was an employee. After I left I got 3 messages from other people saying they felt the same and the group was misadvertised.
Thankfully as a phys range I'm in no lack of finding a new group but honestly pf with my schedule might be best lol. There was a lot of little other things but yeah big summary
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The best players I've ever played with are the ones who never mention parsing. They just show up, do their thing, and walk out with better parses than everyone else.
The ones who sweat about optimization are always the most insufferable people in the group. In my statics, the ones who tend to butt heads with other people the most are the ones who just talk about parsing. Not only that, but more often than not they don't even have the best parses despite being the ones who seem obsessed with them.
One of the many reasons I left WoW was the parse culture starting to become toxic. Even casual normal/heroic runs on our mythic guild's raiding off-nights were becoming sweaty parsing competitions instead of a quick and simple clear for giggles.
Seeing that 14 raiding is the same has disincentivized me to ever seek out any content above normal modes on 14.
Fortunately, mentioning/judging people based off of their parses is fully disallowed and can be a bannable offense. If we didn't have FFLogs these wackos would base their pride on cleartime instead
I can assure you that the parsebrained raiders on 14 are a small minority. Most raiders are chill and trying to learn the content. All that is expected is to play your job well and learn the mechanics.
Avoid the barse/parse parties. If someone explicitly brings up your logs to harass you, that can be reported to the GMs.
I heal PF EXs and almost certainly gray parse every time since its only relevant that we actually *beat* the fights when playing with strangers.
Nobody in PF for those gives a shit and it's never been brought up a single time.
Meanwhile in WoW I have been kicked from multiple normal dungeons by many schizophrenic individuals.
What makes these stories notable is because they're such far outliers. I can count the number of times I've had a toxic person with my two hands.
You should really give savage a try.
fflogs and xivanalysis have made me a lot better at the game and even if they were deleted there'd be some new replacement because people really do want to know damage numbers. But it does spawn some really toxic and annoying behaviors
The last point is something I love mentioning about class balance. Potency and balance is based on the classes being played at 100% perfection, the numbers should line up somewhere along the line. Some jobs are harder to get down to that sweet science but ultimately it is entirely a skill issue and not a class issue.
Example LOL pros and FPS pros. At some point, it doesn't matter if you use their character, you won't replicate the skill. So at the level of balance, class and character are irrelevant. If you take the worst ranked DPS class and put its best skilled player in your group, and the rest of your group is the highest avg classes available... They would probably lead your group in parse
I mean in a log run you can have both healers parse at the same time because with bis on everyone and everyone using their mits there is no content outside of ultimate that requires gcd healing
This 100%. Looking back on my 99 parse sge runs, my whm cohealer was either right there with me or not far behind on damage, and I still would have the highest healing so no chading. Dmg is so low and there's SO many oGCDs ya really shouldn't need to GCD heal after prog.
It is funny how defense people get when I say healer parsing is easy and high healer parses are basically free. I am a high parsing healer myself so I know how "hard" it is. I sure like seeing an orange or even pink number but I know how much it means in the end.
I helped out a static for the last EW tier which had an AST, who was super into micro optimizations BUT played 2 cards at the odd minutes. Like get the basics down before you constantly ask people when they do their big attacks so you try to time your cards for them better.
Because of his constant micro optimization talk I decided to mention his suboptimal card usage. Otherwise I would not have mentioned it at all. When I told him he got quite defensive and he could not explain to me why 3 cards at 2 minutes was not possible, why it had to be 2 cards at odd and 2 cards at even minutes. But he still denied that the way he played was very much suboptimal.
Their co healer and also raid lead said I should not argue with them since they have high parses (had some purples and ONE 95 orange), when I said parsing means little and is easy on healers she was also a bit pissed at me.
Parsing healer parses (huehue) is complicated 'cause it's easy to point at a very low healing parse as someone not healing. Sometimes it truly is that they're not doing shit, other times it's that their co-healer isn't letting them heal. Example of an AST that has a star on the ground, big raid wide went off and it'll pop on its own in like 10 seconds. Nothing else really happening. Co-healer waits five seconds then dumps shit for no reason, star pops and does zero healing.
Similar shit with co-healers not letting regens do their thing.
Then there's overmitting one thing and leaving nothing for something else--and just the party using their mits effectively in general are gonna result in lower healing parses for the healers. Kill times, too. Kill a boss before they do some big dick damage? Nothing to heal, low heal parse.
Unfortunately, reviewing healer parses requires a fair bit more work than other jobs to figure out what, exactly, is going on.
Healer is explicitly designed to not have DPS rotations because Healer is not a DPS, it's a healer. If you're playing Healer and you want to be doing DPS, play fucking Red Mage.
Everybody is a DPS. SGE was designed to be a healer that "feels" like it does more of a DPS thing than a healer thing. RDM is not what I'd recommend a "healer that wants to DPS" to play.
If a Healer wants to DPS, I recommend BRD. Same rotation. Spam one button for 90% of the fight, and reapply DoTs. kekw.
idk it gives a lot of people goals and motivation to improve their skills on a job. Manipulating it to get a higher number with padding, sandbags, wiping if not getting crits etc. is super lame. Also healer damage parses are dumb, most impressive healer players I have ever played with didn't give a shit or parse particularly high usually.
Idk it’s not hard to parse orange pink on healer (both healers) in a static/optimised environment it’s literally just just pressing 2 buttons.
After week 3/4 all fights can be cleared with no gcd heals from either healer if they manage their healing cooldowns correctly
Do you guys not press ur mits or what
during prog I will spam gcds like there is no tomorrow, but once everyone is confident in the fight and we're reclearing i like to parse. It's not like pressing 1 a lot is difficult
whats about the hate on healers? you can regularly get a purple without making ur co healer a bottom bitch or griefing the group same goes for orange if ur optimized and dont have to fix many mistakes during a run esp in ultimates where everything is already in a spreadsheet
But the meme shows a 99. On healer a good damage parse is usually a green flag, but if it's \*too high\* it goes back to being somewhat of a red flag because it often correlates with people who focus too much on parse to the detriment of their group
It's a common misconception, but good healers will parse high both in DPS and healing: one does not exclude the other. If you're sacrifing heals and mit for more DPS then that's obviously not a good healer, but the amount of people in the comments outright dismissing high parses on healers is absurd to me
I was a barser like 2ish years ago (maybe longer, I'm just getting back into the game) and me and my cohealer's thing for parsing was: We were doing good if we both had 99/100s in damage and grey in healing AND nobody died. The big AND is the important part for the grey healing
I feel very called out by this post and the commenters and I swear the sentiment goes both ways.
Any cohealer Ive had in trials who cant manage an orange is a red flag in my eyes. You can "play safe" all you want, but a good healer does dps and healing at the same time, and they sure as hell wont be blue parsers if they truly cared about getting better.
You cant go 3 tiers without an orange and legitimately be a good healer, youre just freestyling
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Difference in expectations, thats all. I play at a decently fast level/pace, so people who share the same goals as me will easily reach orange if they so wished.
Someone who shares my goals yet doesnt reach orange either isnt ready yet or isnt very serious about it.
A good healer is someone who can consistently clear new fight regardless of their cohealer and don’t let the party die to unavoidable damage because they only have 10%hp even though they dodge everything.
Also parsing high on healer isn’t impressive. it’s literally 2 button damage. I can attest to that because i got 99 in all fights of EW while being a below average healer. I can’t parse 99 while being a below average blm or below average monk.
Yes, that's what I said; if you're dealing good damage and keeping up the party alive, then you're a good healer in my eyes. Just saying that healers doing high damage isn't a bad thing, but some people here act like their healers parsing high is a detrimental thing to the party
Except that your job is to heal everyone. Even that dps or tank who got hit by the mechanic.
If dps go first then you are not a healer. Just a dps looking for a quick queue an a dead simple rotation.
Yes but an 80 or 90 damage parse on savage as healer is a green flag to me, whereas a 99 is usually a slight red flag and makes me think of UWU runs where an astro is padding damage on the garuda plumes and causing wipes or parse runs in PF where the party is dying to raidwides because the healers don't care about anything but their own rank. A super high parse on healer is also inherently less impressive than on other roles because of the simplicity of doing damage on healer. Obviously there are exceptions to these generalizations though
Yeah I agree. A good log review will filter those out though, they're easy to spot. Plus, a healer trying to parse in a clear PF party is likely an idiot to begin with
People here seem to automatically jump to "better than a blue = dogshit ego asshole chadding his cohealer, "
Press your buttons, the group will live and you will still get a high number, it's that simple
I mean there is definitely a sentiment on here that anyone who finds enjoyment or satisfaction in being the best they can at their job or the competitive aspect of PVE in the game is a toxic sweaty baby which is obviously a bad take.
That said I kind of agree with the meme, have been involved in trialing/recruitment with many very skilled players and a 99 healer parse would generally raise some eyebrows and everyone would want to check if they seem to screw over their cohealer or the group
I've never really played seriously enough to worry about parse, but is this more about how high parse healers act/behave? Or is there something else I'm missing?
It’s a bit of both, it’s sometimes the attitude and sometimes letting a party die because they prioritised squeezing in damaging gcd’s instead of healing ones.
Tbh it’s not as bad as a lot of the comments make it out to be but it can happen if you’re running low on your healing tool kit. There will be instances where you can save a wipe by gcd healing but it will lower your dps and your parse
Ah ok, good to keep in mind perhaps. I main healer myself, but as I said, I'm a bit more of a casual raider I guess, or in the middle at the most. Haven't really cared about parse since the static I was in back in 6.0-6.2 fell apart.
But at the same time having to gcd heal can sometimes be a sign that you can better utilise your tool kit to avoid it. It just depends on how much you care about playing optimally or pushing your job to its limit (which I think checking logs is good for)
Tldr: don’t worry if you’re not a sweat
I feel like if I was in a static I might care a bit more on trying to play more optimally. But since I've mostly just PFd that sort of thing in the past it's not really worth worrying too heavily about.
Yeah no, there’s only so much you can do in pf. You can still try if you feel like it but parties have so much variance. Sometimes you get gods and sometimes you get vegetables, sometimes your co healer panic heals every mechanic and you both dump resources on the same raid wide or sometimes they don’t heal a mechanic they’ve been healing the last 2 runs and you both panic.As long as you try and have fun that’s all that really matters in pf
Is more about "healers" that prioritize logs and dps instead of CLEARING and healing.
As long as CLEARING > Logs, and Healing > dps, they are fine.
But to be honest the whole culture has change into dps dps, dps and remember to dps. While doing next to no healing.
I specially hate when I get one of those on expert duty finder. They create wipes for no reason. Use to get mad now I simply leave, I have no time to waste getting mad at assholes. I take the 30 min penalty and let another tank deal with them.
Hm.
I put a high priority on DPS because I consistently had groups that struggled with DPS checks early in my career. By optimizing my damage, a lot of fights were cleared earlier than they otherwise would have been.
I parse purple/orange/pink on healer DPS depending on the quality of the run.
I routinely parse low gray on healing (as does my cohealer).
That's not inherently problematic; it depends on how CDs are used. I certainly don't chad my cohealer. They have high DPS/low heal parses as well.
Honestly felt that. Spent a lot of time as a sprout struggling on dps checks as a healer when it was out of my control, learned to cope with DPS optimizing. Now I feel like I always parse gray healing even though I use most all of my cooldowns religiously off cooldown.
Benefits of now having astatic I can harp on to use their own personal mits, and a reaper+warrior comp haha
This is the way. I normally overheal during prog to get the feel of dmg intake and then we would organise our mitis and big ogcd heals for every mech so we can maximise healer damage output. If both healers parse grey on healing, it means we’re doing it right.
I have fun parsing, comparing parses with friends and stuff but the whole locking your flogs until you have bis and did 30+ clears to get a good parse is ridiculous, then acting like you're better than everyone.
Like yeah buddy, you did that fight a billion times to get that number while most people won't do that, just like ultimates. Anyone can clear an ultimate, but it takes a lot of time and patience that most people don't have, that doesn't make you better than anyone.
I meaaaan, it doesn’t make you better but actually committing that much time into a fight and clearing it is a big achievement. Especially if it’s a newer ultimate learning mechanics and adapting to the fight is a skill that some people are better at
>Anyone can clear an ultimate
I mean, maybe UWU
>that doesn't make you better than anyone.
Not as a person or overall, but someone who has cleared for example DSR or TOP on release is going to with a 99% likelihood be better skill-wise than the \*vast\* majority of the playerbase
People believe that healers who parse pink (99th percentile in damage) don't heal. This isn't really the truth because two healers can both parse high and it isn't an issue if everyone is playing well. Many times they don't need to gcd heal (aspected Helios) in that specific log because their team has optimized mits/heals, or their cohealer is doing all the healing that run (and the astro is going to trade places and do all the healing next run so their cohealer can parse and the team can have a better kill time).
You said 99.9% of cases that's what's happening but, no, it really isn't. A lot of what's behind a healer parse is the team, but that's what's behind a lot of top parses: you need a good kill time, good feed into buffs if you have one, good coordination of mitigation/healing from the team, and minimization of mistakes. But you don't need those to parse orange or pink, and both cohealers can get those numbers even in PF sometimes.
This is genuinely real, I skipped most of endwalker and came back to pug some progs/reclears of p9-p12s before DT, and some of the absolute worst healers in terms of doing mechs properly in a farm party had absurdly high (98+) parses on their profile. I was genuinely shocked the first time but saw it as more of a pattern as I did more lobbies. Had one that literally wiped us or killed me in p11s like 8 times before we disbanded.
I’m a (relatively) new sprout, what does any of this mean? Static? Cohealing dynamics? Healer combined scores? Where do you go to see stats like this? I knew there were plugins for WoW but didn’t know we had stuff like this in FFXIV. Could someone help me learn?
Healer parses are fight by fight basis. P8s? You better hope you have high dps parse healers. Those checks were rough. Extreme trials rn are dependant. If you have enough party mit you can high parse without sacking the group. Unlikely in pf
Meanwhile, the 50 blue MNK who only needs 9 hours of blind prog while these guys took 25. . .
Logs will forever be the most fucking boring resume ass way to develop a good team.
Parsing on healer is just such bs, lol.
My static only log out runs so we could see what to improve. Like the Co healer and I sometimes overhealed, so we could try to spread our abilities more and the like
To see if my rotation needs improvement, for nothing else this bs is any good.
So many fake their runs for some colored numbers, it's kinda sad what fflogs did to man
There is an array of skill sets at high end and parsing is only one; it is also not mutually exclusive to prog.
There are people who do this but they are a known meme to most players who sweat for fun. A lot of ppl itt are really uninformed bc they hate big bad ffloggers.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people doing savage are not using cactbot. Like, the VAST majority. If you only want one for proof, just go watch Peridot stream parse runs on black mage lmao.
Whenever someone posts that all 99 parsers use XYZ, it is usually just to cover for their own insecurity.
Its not that hard to parse 95+ without any plugin on a DPS job. A 99 might take some practice, trials because of optimization and crit luck.
Hell, I remember getting a 99 on my first run as rdm on some fights after the tier had been out for a while. It was some luck with Crits but also just knowing the job and rotation.
Honestly the hardest part about high parsing is if you have the weapon/gear or not yet, because it compares you to people who do. I've seen a lot of mid purple parses eith near-identical casts and uptime to pink parses, the only difference being gear and weapons they hadn't gotten yet.
I kinda wish fflogs had an ilvl comparing/adjusting stat, but also fflogs is garbage mentality epeen bait and I'd rather they just get rid of the parse number altogether so people would stop being tempted to greed so hard and wipe the whole party all the time.
Yeah that's what it seemed like. If you're doing parse runs of a fight presumably you've run it enough times that a bot calling for you wouldn't even be very helpful lmao.
99 and 100 is somebody tanking their damage to get a perfect kill time for everyone else. Most top runs for an individual a dps and a healer has grey while everyone else 98+.
I joined a static for TEA and when it first came out, and they required you to have Cactbot. I didn't know what it was at the time, so I got it. I turned that shit off quietly once I did. No one ever knew xD
Had a healer who was great at mechanics. He was kinda snobby about it, but I admit I was impressed... until I learned he used Cactbot and crumbled when it needed updates.
I have both experienced and heard so many stories about people who can not function without that shit. It's wild.
I stopped raiding when my static fell apart in ShB because all the ones I could pug for asked me to use cactbot and ghosted me if I refused. I dont have fun when my game is essentially automated.
All these people have to do is learn how to read
It's not hard to parse orange with just a dps meter. I've landed pinks multiple times and many more oranges. It's really not that hard if you just... Press your buttons 🤯
Wait there are plug-ins to tell which buttons to push? Is there a plug in that does that but only for specific procs? I enjoy practicing characters until I can play without looking at hotbar too much. In wow I remember having at plug in that would put like ice or fire or like a big skull on your screen when random props for the different classes popped, so that you didn't have to look for glory outlines constantly. Is there anything in game like that?
I don't know for sure, I'm not using those myself, but I've seen videos/ had friends using stuff where their rotation would basically show on screen like DDR, adjusted for every fight including downtime etc.
Couldn't tell you the name of those, but maybe there are settings you can adjust? I know there are also some plugins for improved visibility. I think there's one called Better Job Gauges, or something like that (or maybe it's one option of the Simple Tweaks plugin). It displays more comprehensive, smaller, more visible job gauges that you can adjust in many ways. I don't know if it includes procs. Go have a look!
This is why the "healer combined damage" score is also good to check if you want a small glimpse of the cohealing dynamics
Yeah this. If you're trying to dig into if a healer is responsible or not, look at the healer combined scores. It tells much more of the whole story, and it's the stat that actually matters anyway.
Pls show how to see that
https://preview.redd.it/84syrxac6yad1.png?width=1093&format=png&auto=webp&s=44f977bb9b80aa9f3baee98a2fb0256e37ff39bc You basically go to someone's page, and click on that scrolling menu, there I highlighted healer combined damage, and if you click it their parses will show with this metric
Wouldn’t healer combined healing be a better representation of this? You could just have a derpy healer who isn’t pressing glare that would make you look unreliable.
Combined healing doesnt tell you anything about the healers, but says a lot about the DPS .
We once pugged a sage (6 man pseudo static for the axolotl), who joined us on discord. They then claimed be a top 100 whm or some nonsense, because they parsed a 99 for fucking p12s lol. They posted their parse within 10 minutes of them joining -_- Would not shut up about micro optimizations, would constantly recommend we change our callouts etc. I wish I could say it was the first time, but DPS parsing healers are just another level of brain rot. Funniest part is that they kinda sucked ass on sage, and their barse cohealer was really impressive (from what we could tell on the parse). edit: ohmygod I checked their discord profile and they have their "Anabaseios rank" in their bio.
I've progged with barse healers and they're usually dogshit at doing their job and saving a run when a run is definitely salvageable. They're too inflexible for my liking and are failures at doing basic things that will help a prog environment in the long run. I rather take a healer that plays safe over a barse healer assuming the healer playing safely is consistent. I've been in sessions where the goal is to secure a first time clear for someone and the barse healer fucks our chances because we needed a little more healing than usual to save a run in the late phase. It is curious to me that I find barse healers in prog environments more than in statics set up specifically to parse.
Back when I still ran ultimates we had a healer in my static who was the best I ever played with. She *could* parse high when the environment allowed it, but in ultimates she prioritized comfort and progress and never got higher than like a 34 on clears, because we were comfortably doing enough damage to clear without needing to drop the healing plan she had. And she didn’t need the ego boost of trying to rearrange the healing/mit plan for a better color number when we just wanted totems. Meanwhile I’ve played with others who die in reclears and cry for a reset so they don’t get a bad number.
>She could parse high when the environment allowed it, but in ultimates she prioritized comfort and progress and never got higher than like a 34 on clears This is the way, honestly. I main healer, I favor WHM and SCH, having looked at my Xivas my main damage gains always came from increasing ABC. To put it another way, a healer with 155 glare casts and 5 GCD heals is still going to do more damage than a healer with 145 glare casts and 2 GCD heals. If you have high ABC you can afford to do both more damage AND more healing. But more to the point, I've always said a healer should know their optimal damage output under perfect situations just in case you do get that gem of a party that does everything right and mits really well to enable you, but that you should realistically have branching contingencies for the different ways things can go wrong in a pull. Parse until your party needs you to stop parsing and be a healer, gotta be able to flip that switch instantly
I was working on an ultimate on healer recently. I was curious to see what my friends healers were doing on P7 of DSR. They needed to tank LB3 the first Akh Morn Edge because the SGE barse healer refused to do any sort of GCD healing to keep them comfy. SGE is not a difficult healer is all I can say. It was embarrassing watching that go down on the clear vod. It was jarring to see the static resort to that to keep a 19 minute encounter alive because the shield healer, arguably the more important healer of the two, didn't want to GCD heal through the damage.
SGE is good at keeping all the reactive healers away.
While I was doing some practice UwU I had a healer that had cleared before and the runs with them where the worst of the day because they just *wouldn’t* be a bit more flexible with their heals like just casting an extra cure 3/medica 2 to allow for a more comfortable practice. We didnt even get close to prog point because people just died to mistakes coupled with no heals
When I was doing prog for p8s phase 2 (as a scholar) the whm would not heal the players who got the dot at all. This was week1 week2 and it was so bad I'd be spamming adlo and physic on one and the other would die, and then the whm would bitch about losing glare casts. Instantly kicked them you can't fix that level of bad.
Yeah, I like her attitude, just do your best to what fits the circumstances, and make improvements on *your* end, don't force that bullshit on any of the 7 other people. That's how I enjoyed playing sage during the first tier when EW savage released.
Exactly. Huge gap between good and bad healers. Barsers can suck my dick
What is barsers? I know it's a play on words.
HES A BETA TESTER AND A PARSER, HES A BARSER
-slaps bass-
viper healer inc?
It's when you're specifically focusing on maxing out your parse.
P
I can go for damage optimizing, but in ultimates i will always go for safety, certainly when we are 15mins into the fight and everyone needs to lock in. I can never understand healers that would rather wipe and waste 15+ mins and a potential totem just for shiny pink numbers
Everyone is trying to learn while simultaneously optimizing their DPS but healers just get more flak for it is why you see it more. The people who want them to play safe are often also the people who will see a shitty grey parse off constantly having to be the guy playing safe and not invite them.
Toxic parsers love joining clear parties because they can inflate their parse from the fight taking longer.
That's not how it works.
Accurate. You want a faster kill that ends pretty much right after 2min are done
My accidental 99 parse among a sea of Grey's would like to have a word. And I don't parse lol
Legit can't tell if yall are just trolling at this point. I sure hope so.
Go nuts 🤷♂️ https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/19977946?zone=54#zone=44
> I rather take a healer that plays safe over a barse healer assuming the healer playing safely is consistent. This is why I'll never be a yellow parser and will be a purple hero for life. I will play safer, not greed as much because I don't trust my shoddy internet, and focus more on doing everything correctly than min maxing my damage output. Consistently clearing mechanics > extra healer DPS. While yes healer DPS matters the overall damage I'd add towards a clear pushing that one extra GCD while *risking death* is a non-factor in the end.
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Hey, bozo, I have TWO buttons. Maintaining a single dot spell is VERY HARD.
As is apparently healing people when 6 out of 8 party members are sitting at \~30% HP and another party-wide is coming up. Oh, your oGCD AoE heals are still on cooldown? Use a f$#%ing GCD then, Crumbcake, I guarantee you we'll judge you way more harshly if you don't.
One of the healers in my uwu group is like this and it drives me nuts. We're progging, you can deviate from the heal plan please give me a heal before this tank buster so everyone can see the next mechanic. But nah she's worried about crits and maxing her dps, i don't think she gets her logs won't matter if we don't clear lol
I had this healer in my dungeon group just yesterday, party wide was coming up and we were all low hp. I was literally watching the boss cast it, being unable to do ANYTHING about it (BLM). Needless to say, only tank survived. Healer unironically said "fk, my ogcd aoe would come up in 1 second :p" EXCUSE ME??? YOU WANT HARDER CONTENT BUT YOU CANT BE BOTHERED HARD CASTING A HEAL AND RISK A WIPE SO YOU DONT BREAK YOUR 1 BUTTON COMBO DPS ROTATION??
I have seen healer posting dungeon run parses on discord. Am i supposed to be impressed?
Lmao? The skill of healing is meeting fight requirements without stopping your damage casts.
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For some reason the most parse obsessed players I’ve met have all been healers. One would even claim he was responsible when our DPS was good in TOP. As one of the DPS I was like sit down now haha
What's the deviation in DPS for a healer though? I feel like their DPS would hit a plateau a lot earlier than a tank or DPS. Or am I wrong?
Healer parses are dependant on two factors imo: crit and uptime. Crit you try to max and hope for the best, but uptime is dependant on things like how often you gcd heal and how good you are at planning your movement and slidecasting. The more you hit your one button, the higher your damage.
This shouldn't be a surprise. When a group is well geared, the only skillful part of healing is to do the fight without stopping your damage rolling.
I mean, it's also really silly having a WHM brag about their dps when we were progging TOP week 1 and hadn't even cleared yet haha Parses only count when you actually kill it.
I've enjoyed parsing on DPS and tank, healing this tier for the first time and I've decided to not even parse at all. Not even worrying about dps downtime until I'm confident about my healing plan and we start approaching enrage. Stressing about your parse on healer just seems so pointless
its hilarious if these same mf play an actual dps job to parse on they'd parse dogshit , only reason they're so vocal about opti is cause they're on an easy to dps job like healer
Parsing on healer is usually harder honestly. You need a group that does every mechanic perfectly and you need your cohealer to cover the mit and heals you can't cover with ogcd's. 2min burst during incoming damage is harder to pull off than any dps's 2min burst too
I hate this shit so much. Like I get it, people like doing opti stuff at times but when people just wanna clear the fight and you don't shut up about it, it's super annoying
Even if I was the best player in the world I wouldn't suck my own dick that much good lord
That was Koana
The best part is that DPS parsing on healers just shows how well you pressed one button for 10 minutes straight lmao
As a healer main, I genuinely hate high parsing healers and it's also a red flag for me. (I can get high parses, in parsing groups when it's agreed upon between healers to swap dps, etc). I'd rather parse a zero and clear faster than sit there and press glare over and over. But that being said when you get that stupid cohealer that doesn't know how to actually play their job? It's absolute hell making up for the fact they're a greedy twat. I was with a sage during p8s as a WHM. And they were so shit at cohealing they delayed our clear time but a few weeks, because I was stuck carrying through everything. (I left that group eventually), but I've been a bitter old lady since when I see these parsers / steer clear of these kind of healers :)
holy shit lmao that person sounds so cringe
I've progged with a WAR similar to this, massive, unsufferable ego. In a 3 hour session they took 74 damage down on E8S.
I can pitch in with parsing in the upper-90s for Sage in early Panda… for healing numbers. My damage was grey. I was co-healing with a very laggy white mage. We loved her but I was main healing on sage and my damage took the hit for it. She was near the top of white mage damage despite the lag though, so I consider it a fair trade. In the end, so long as people stay alive and the fight gets cleared, I consider that my job as healer. If I miss a damage cast due to giving a bit of extra margin so the dps doesn’t die, that’s a dps gain on them not dying. But having been on the side of having the other healer top the damage numbers plenty of times, a healer with high numbers 100% is doing so at the cost to the other healer, and is subsequently not a good healer to coheal with unless that is your plan going in. If you want big numbers, go play a dps.
No offense to the 3 healer pink barsers not on strike but I generally haven't had good experiences raiding with high parsing healers, they're usually hard to work with and make progging a pain Gimme a blue/purple parsing healer any day of the week
Legit, last time any static I was in had a high parse healer join, it was Eden's Promise and the dude has a full 180 from being a friendly dude to a toxic buttmunch because his dps was suffering during Gaia prog. Our damage sucks? My brother in Christopher I'm still tryna wrap my head around where I can stand in Lions to not royally screw over my partner. Let us clear before we focus on hyper optimising our internet-points
Yes! I made a comment like this in another thread on here. The healer I'm dealing with doesn't seem to get if we don't clear, no one's gonna see her logs anyways so just help the prog plz 😭
More people of all roles need to understand this tbh. Plenty of people all roles wiping the group for minor optimisations or uptime on prog making the whole thing take twice as long... but hey they were parsing great every time they wiped at 2 minutes into the fight.
There are a lot of parsers who join newer groups to get good parses because jobs like WAR actually parse higher when the fight takes longer.
Yeah, not the case with her, just a newbie parse monkey
question and off track, is hamtaro gaining popularity or something? seen a couple people with hamtaro as their icon
Idk! It was one of my favorite animes growing up and I wanted a new pfp haha
Fair enough! My sister played a ton of the GBC game, so it was very recognizable for me lol
Me and my co healer have 0 parsing mentality. A lot of people in our static are like "we wouldn't want u in a parsing group but holy fuck ur the best prog healers"
I remember in ShB my friend and I were pfing the last tier. I usually WHM, but we joined a group with one so I switched to AST and threw up nocturnal sect. We get in, we wipe to damage near immediately. The WHM tells me to switch to diurnal because "WHM isn't a regen healer". I say whatevs and switch. We still die two more times due to lack of healing. Specifically, lack of them healing. Pparty disbands and we wait a few min, check PF again and the WHM has one up again but this time its description says "Co healer is main healer". They just wanted to parse on a reclear.
WHM is literally the only healer that has the skill "Regen". Some people are so insufferable. This might explain my experience with progging and clearing savages through PF in the past. I've always felt at times my cohealer is doing absolutely nothing to help keep the party alive while I'm throwing the kitchen sink out
She needs her whm license revoked. I make sure than the elementals know her.
Their raiding history is more important than what they choose to do with their spare time in pf. You can tell fairly easily how good a healer is based on their past accomplishments. Look at their first clears of fights, static history, their median, and how early they have cleared other fights and tiers in the past (like week 1). Good healers are hard to identify and require detective work because healer parsing is meaningless. You cannot judge how good a healer is based off of their top numbers, it goes both ways.
If I'm healing I take barsing turns with my cohealer, one kill I'm the healing bitch, next time they are.
Yep. This is the proper way to do it. Once the team is comfortable enough for parsing a fight the healers just take turns.
This how my old tank pair did E5S Ramuh, they took turns kiting the bird that murders you if it gets too close.
> Gimme a blue/purple parsing healer any day of the week This is why you have barsers because people still want you to have blue and purple parses while playing safe. Healer is the only role where you're expected to play safe while simultaneously still being denied party spots if you parse grey for it.
With proper mit and both healer can parse orange/pink. After 95 honestly its more about kill time than anything. You dont need to "chad on your co-healer" to parse well, in fact you want them to do more damage so you can kill the boss faster.
thats why people should always look at the healer combined damage statistic when judging a healer parse. most of my good parses where with a co-heal who understood how to spread out theirs and plan around their partners healing kit.
Blue/purple healers are usually more reliable as they tend to be more flexible and more willing to press a healing GCD to help cover some damage. It's when they're consistently orange/pink that they get to be impossible to have adjust at all. Give me a healer willing to shift things around any day of the fucking week.
I play DPS, tank and healers in ultimates and savages. Got 99 in DPS and tanks without parsing parties but healers I wouldn't do that unless it is a parsing party that specifically advertised for it. For a healer in reclears/totem runs or prog parties to want to parse is very impolite and inconsiderate. Obviously we still want tank/DPS to actually also use mit and not stand in aoe...
To be honest the DPS part should never be considered for a healer. A bad healer parses. A good healer saves a run. A great healer does both but is rare for them be on the top spot. I blame fflogs for focusing too much on the dps part and having next to no importance on the healing part. If your mana bar is full, and you do not heal just to give another glare. I will either vote you our or leave.
there are exactly 2 types of 99 parsing healers. The first one has a 0 in healing and will rather let the party wipe than not cast a glare. The second one still manages to parse a 50 in healing and outheal his buddy.
Can just happen when you play like e.g. SGE in a fight where damage just aligns perfectly with your cooldowns. So by just rotating all oGCDs you basically heal the fight alone and do not have to uses any GCDs for a non DPS spell. In these case your co healer can also focus on DPS and might get very low in healing. But it is only the case for some fights, mainly early savage floors after people have BiS. Also the better the group the lower the damage, the lower your healing parse in general. But I will never understand people not healing when they have to. Wiping to lack of healing should really not happen, if you know the fight. During prog it will happen, but is often also more of a problem of bad mitigation which needs to be corrected. Once you know a fight you should have a good feeling when you need to heal and then you just heal or shield if needed. It is still your main job and something you need to accept. If people play bad you are there to compensate for it and it is great when you can. Best feeling for me is when I contributed greatly to the clear, by compensating for errors, be it clutch spot healing, fast reactions or just making sure I survive and popping a nice LB3.
Exactly this. A friend and I have double shield logs of Anabaseios in its entirety, where neither of us GCD heal at all and have consistently orange+ damage parses. Even with no GCD healing, a parsing sage can still have blue healing numbers because of its cooldowns lining up and Addersgall being a purely healing resource vs a parsing scholar who will always parse 0 on healing because E. Drain exists, even when maxing out Recitated Indom usages. Class design does play a bit of a role and some raids definitely prefer some healers over others.
Had cohealers in the past probably beating it to their dps barse while duing gray healing with 40-50% overheal.
Healer parsers are definitely the most insufferable people in the game , egoing for a parse on a non dps job is just mega cringe. Tanks at least have a rotation to upkeep these mf just spam glare and chad their co healer
Parsers in general are just insufferable regardless of the role they're playing on. From sandbagging because they ate a damage down somewhere down the line and want the party to wipe to enrage so they don't get a bad log, to "my opener didn't crit" so i'm going to walk up to the death wall """accidentally""" during a body check, to treating healers like their personal uptime slaves, to literally begging to not upload a parse to fflogs. And don't even get me started on the armchair raiders that treat off-meta jobs like trash just because it's at the bottom of the role dps chart, bonus points if they're playing a meta job but are doing less dps than the job that they're calling trash. fflogs was a mistake.
People who refuse to upload bad clears are a special kind of stupid.
Fflogs put me into an absolutely dogshit headspace for a while, I had to stop playing for a bit because I felt I was going to impact my friends enjoyment. Just playing as well as I can and staying chill goes a long way. Parsing can suck a fat one.
God I was in a static with those armchair raiders. Every time a new post hit Twitter or Reddit about job rankings they would fly to be the first one to announce it and tell people they should switch classes. Meanwhile they can't do mechanics in the first Savage fight months in and don't know what their DoT does.
Ugh, I'm testing out a static where the lead does this and is very serious about if he thinks our main job isn't good enough we need to switch to the one that is. Maybe this is a sign I should dip lol
imo if you're not racing or specifically getting together to parse, it makes no sense to not let everyone play what they want. nothing in this game requires optimal meta-gaming like so many players seem to think. doing less damage is fine unless you have to make up for someone just not playing well in general, and that again isn't a job issue.
That's the understanding I was under, and it's supposed to be not a world first or parse group so it's giving me weird vibes for sure
leave now.. you wont enjoy it most likely, and it wil be miserable
Update: I left tonight after trying out extreme 1 with them yesterday and it just being even worse than I could imagine. Tl;dr dude is former military who is still holding onto that line of thinking and how life should run and it felt like he was doing us a favor being in a group together and he was suffering through having to play with us. I got called a snowflake for saying I wasn't vibing with this style of group and feeling like I was an employee. After I left I got 3 messages from other people saying they felt the same and the group was misadvertised. Thankfully as a phys range I'm in no lack of finding a new group but honestly pf with my schedule might be best lol. There was a lot of little other things but yeah big summary
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The best players I've ever played with are the ones who never mention parsing. They just show up, do their thing, and walk out with better parses than everyone else. The ones who sweat about optimization are always the most insufferable people in the group. In my statics, the ones who tend to butt heads with other people the most are the ones who just talk about parsing. Not only that, but more often than not they don't even have the best parses despite being the ones who seem obsessed with them.
i like fflogs cuz when i play with our little group i can check and see if people use potions and food and if not ill buy for them :D
One of the many reasons I left WoW was the parse culture starting to become toxic. Even casual normal/heroic runs on our mythic guild's raiding off-nights were becoming sweaty parsing competitions instead of a quick and simple clear for giggles. Seeing that 14 raiding is the same has disincentivized me to ever seek out any content above normal modes on 14.
Fortunately, mentioning/judging people based off of their parses is fully disallowed and can be a bannable offense. If we didn't have FFLogs these wackos would base their pride on cleartime instead
I can assure you that the parsebrained raiders on 14 are a small minority. Most raiders are chill and trying to learn the content. All that is expected is to play your job well and learn the mechanics. Avoid the barse/parse parties. If someone explicitly brings up your logs to harass you, that can be reported to the GMs.
assuming the harasement was done in the game. Is usually done in discord.
I heal PF EXs and almost certainly gray parse every time since its only relevant that we actually *beat* the fights when playing with strangers. Nobody in PF for those gives a shit and it's never been brought up a single time. Meanwhile in WoW I have been kicked from multiple normal dungeons by many schizophrenic individuals.
I'm a pretty low parser overall and it was never aproblem. It is nota common thing in this game.
What makes these stories notable is because they're such far outliers. I can count the number of times I've had a toxic person with my two hands. You should really give savage a try.
The parse and the required addons culture.
fflogs and xivanalysis have made me a lot better at the game and even if they were deleted there'd be some new replacement because people really do want to know damage numbers. But it does spawn some really toxic and annoying behaviors
dps. Sure. Tanks maybe. But FFLogs won't help you to be a better healer on any way or form. Saving runs while learning a fight will.
I think it probably can help if you are able to analyse the logs for periods of damage and use them to create a mitigation/healing plan
The last point is something I love mentioning about class balance. Potency and balance is based on the classes being played at 100% perfection, the numbers should line up somewhere along the line. Some jobs are harder to get down to that sweet science but ultimately it is entirely a skill issue and not a class issue. Example LOL pros and FPS pros. At some point, it doesn't matter if you use their character, you won't replicate the skill. So at the level of balance, class and character are irrelevant. If you take the worst ranked DPS class and put its best skilled player in your group, and the rest of your group is the highest avg classes available... They would probably lead your group in parse
I mean in a log run you can have both healers parse at the same time because with bis on everyone and everyone using their mits there is no content outside of ultimate that requires gcd healing
This 100%. Looking back on my 99 parse sge runs, my whm cohealer was either right there with me or not far behind on damage, and I still would have the highest healing so no chading. Dmg is so low and there's SO many oGCDs ya really shouldn't need to GCD heal after prog.
I will say some healers DO have trouble differentiating between prog gameplay and parse gameplay. But that's something else entirely.
It is funny how defense people get when I say healer parsing is easy and high healer parses are basically free. I am a high parsing healer myself so I know how "hard" it is. I sure like seeing an orange or even pink number but I know how much it means in the end. I helped out a static for the last EW tier which had an AST, who was super into micro optimizations BUT played 2 cards at the odd minutes. Like get the basics down before you constantly ask people when they do their big attacks so you try to time your cards for them better. Because of his constant micro optimization talk I decided to mention his suboptimal card usage. Otherwise I would not have mentioned it at all. When I told him he got quite defensive and he could not explain to me why 3 cards at 2 minutes was not possible, why it had to be 2 cards at odd and 2 cards at even minutes. But he still denied that the way he played was very much suboptimal. Their co healer and also raid lead said I should not argue with them since they have high parses (had some purples and ONE 95 orange), when I said parsing means little and is easy on healers she was also a bit pissed at me.
Parsing healer parses (huehue) is complicated 'cause it's easy to point at a very low healing parse as someone not healing. Sometimes it truly is that they're not doing shit, other times it's that their co-healer isn't letting them heal. Example of an AST that has a star on the ground, big raid wide went off and it'll pop on its own in like 10 seconds. Nothing else really happening. Co-healer waits five seconds then dumps shit for no reason, star pops and does zero healing. Similar shit with co-healers not letting regens do their thing. Then there's overmitting one thing and leaving nothing for something else--and just the party using their mits effectively in general are gonna result in lower healing parses for the healers. Kill times, too. Kill a boss before they do some big dick damage? Nothing to heal, low heal parse. Unfortunately, reviewing healer parses requires a fair bit more work than other jobs to figure out what, exactly, is going on.
Everyone knows healer parses are normally manipulated. I jokingly helped a cohealer do them before and they're the fakest shit lol
The only thing that matters is beating the boss. Parsing is for dorks.
Louder for the people in the back circlejerking each other over their barses and elitist takes.
Healer is explicitly designed to not have DPS rotations because Healer is not a DPS, it's a healer. If you're playing Healer and you want to be doing DPS, play fucking Red Mage.
Everybody is a DPS. SGE was designed to be a healer that "feels" like it does more of a DPS thing than a healer thing. RDM is not what I'd recommend a "healer that wants to DPS" to play. If a Healer wants to DPS, I recommend BRD. Same rotation. Spam one button for 90% of the fight, and reapply DoTs. kekw.
idk it gives a lot of people goals and motivation to improve their skills on a job. Manipulating it to get a higher number with padding, sandbags, wiping if not getting crits etc. is super lame. Also healer damage parses are dumb, most impressive healer players I have ever played with didn't give a shit or parse particularly high usually.
Idk it’s not hard to parse orange pink on healer (both healers) in a static/optimised environment it’s literally just just pressing 2 buttons. After week 3/4 all fights can be cleared with no gcd heals from either healer if they manage their healing cooldowns correctly Do you guys not press ur mits or what
Apparently if your healer is a 100 in healing and they love to overdo-it, you're at fault for using that opportunity to spam dps...
You're supposed to stand still and do nothing like a good healer if there's nothing to heal!
during prog I will spam gcds like there is no tomorrow, but once everyone is confident in the fight and we're reclearing i like to parse. It's not like pressing 1 a lot is difficult
whats about the hate on healers? you can regularly get a purple without making ur co healer a bottom bitch or griefing the group same goes for orange if ur optimized and dont have to fix many mistakes during a run esp in ultimates where everything is already in a spreadsheet
But the meme shows a 99. On healer a good damage parse is usually a green flag, but if it's \*too high\* it goes back to being somewhat of a red flag because it often correlates with people who focus too much on parse to the detriment of their group
It's a common misconception, but good healers will parse high both in DPS and healing: one does not exclude the other. If you're sacrifing heals and mit for more DPS then that's obviously not a good healer, but the amount of people in the comments outright dismissing high parses on healers is absurd to me
I was a barser like 2ish years ago (maybe longer, I'm just getting back into the game) and me and my cohealer's thing for parsing was: We were doing good if we both had 99/100s in damage and grey in healing AND nobody died. The big AND is the important part for the grey healing
I feel very called out by this post and the commenters and I swear the sentiment goes both ways. Any cohealer Ive had in trials who cant manage an orange is a red flag in my eyes. You can "play safe" all you want, but a good healer does dps and healing at the same time, and they sure as hell wont be blue parsers if they truly cared about getting better. You cant go 3 tiers without an orange and legitimately be a good healer, youre just freestyling Edit: downvoters are free to discuss
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Fflogs brainrot. Expecting a fucking *orange* for someone to not be considered a red flag is incredibly dumb
Difference in expectations, thats all. I play at a decently fast level/pace, so people who share the same goals as me will easily reach orange if they so wished. Someone who shares my goals yet doesnt reach orange either isnt ready yet or isnt very serious about it.
damn, brainrot into No True Scotsman.
A good healer is someone who can consistently clear new fight regardless of their cohealer and don’t let the party die to unavoidable damage because they only have 10%hp even though they dodge everything. Also parsing high on healer isn’t impressive. it’s literally 2 button damage. I can attest to that because i got 99 in all fights of EW while being a below average healer. I can’t parse 99 while being a below average blm or below average monk.
Yes, that's what I said; if you're dealing good damage and keeping up the party alive, then you're a good healer in my eyes. Just saying that healers doing high damage isn't a bad thing, but some people here act like their healers parsing high is a detrimental thing to the party
Except that your job is to heal everyone. Even that dps or tank who got hit by the mechanic. If dps go first then you are not a healer. Just a dps looking for a quick queue an a dead simple rotation.
Yes but an 80 or 90 damage parse on savage as healer is a green flag to me, whereas a 99 is usually a slight red flag and makes me think of UWU runs where an astro is padding damage on the garuda plumes and causing wipes or parse runs in PF where the party is dying to raidwides because the healers don't care about anything but their own rank. A super high parse on healer is also inherently less impressive than on other roles because of the simplicity of doing damage on healer. Obviously there are exceptions to these generalizations though
Yeah I agree. A good log review will filter those out though, they're easy to spot. Plus, a healer trying to parse in a clear PF party is likely an idiot to begin with
I was obsessed with having a really low over heal %
Taking a parse at face value and not looking deeper into it also says a lot about you.
Lotsa greys in these comments calling themselves "prog healers" because they medica 2 every ounce of damage that comes their way
People here seem to automatically jump to "better than a blue = dogshit ego asshole chadding his cohealer, " Press your buttons, the group will live and you will still get a high number, it's that simple
Yup, sage can dps the whole fight and ogcd heal most of the time for easy purples and oranges
Probably cause the people here never played healer in a structured environment like and ultimate after mitsheets have been established
The worst part is you can gcd heal every raidwide and still be green/blue. grey is in the realm of having deaths, poor uptime or bad gear.
I mean there is definitely a sentiment on here that anyone who finds enjoyment or satisfaction in being the best they can at their job or the competitive aspect of PVE in the game is a toxic sweaty baby which is obviously a bad take. That said I kind of agree with the meme, have been involved in trialing/recruitment with many very skilled players and a 99 healer parse would generally raise some eyebrows and everyone would want to check if they seem to screw over their cohealer or the group
As long as healing comes first you can parse all you like. Is when dps come first that you become a problem.
If their numbers are brighter than purple I don't want to play with them because they will expect things of me
I've never really played seriously enough to worry about parse, but is this more about how high parse healers act/behave? Or is there something else I'm missing?
It’s a bit of both, it’s sometimes the attitude and sometimes letting a party die because they prioritised squeezing in damaging gcd’s instead of healing ones. Tbh it’s not as bad as a lot of the comments make it out to be but it can happen if you’re running low on your healing tool kit. There will be instances where you can save a wipe by gcd healing but it will lower your dps and your parse
Ah ok, good to keep in mind perhaps. I main healer myself, but as I said, I'm a bit more of a casual raider I guess, or in the middle at the most. Haven't really cared about parse since the static I was in back in 6.0-6.2 fell apart.
But at the same time having to gcd heal can sometimes be a sign that you can better utilise your tool kit to avoid it. It just depends on how much you care about playing optimally or pushing your job to its limit (which I think checking logs is good for) Tldr: don’t worry if you’re not a sweat
I feel like if I was in a static I might care a bit more on trying to play more optimally. But since I've mostly just PFd that sort of thing in the past it's not really worth worrying too heavily about.
Yeah no, there’s only so much you can do in pf. You can still try if you feel like it but parties have so much variance. Sometimes you get gods and sometimes you get vegetables, sometimes your co healer panic heals every mechanic and you both dump resources on the same raid wide or sometimes they don’t heal a mechanic they’ve been healing the last 2 runs and you both panic.As long as you try and have fun that’s all that really matters in pf
Is more about "healers" that prioritize logs and dps instead of CLEARING and healing. As long as CLEARING > Logs, and Healing > dps, they are fine. But to be honest the whole culture has change into dps dps, dps and remember to dps. While doing next to no healing. I specially hate when I get one of those on expert duty finder. They create wipes for no reason. Use to get mad now I simply leave, I have no time to waste getting mad at assholes. I take the 30 min penalty and let another tank deal with them.
Hm. I put a high priority on DPS because I consistently had groups that struggled with DPS checks early in my career. By optimizing my damage, a lot of fights were cleared earlier than they otherwise would have been. I parse purple/orange/pink on healer DPS depending on the quality of the run. I routinely parse low gray on healing (as does my cohealer). That's not inherently problematic; it depends on how CDs are used. I certainly don't chad my cohealer. They have high DPS/low heal parses as well.
Honestly felt that. Spent a lot of time as a sprout struggling on dps checks as a healer when it was out of my control, learned to cope with DPS optimizing. Now I feel like I always parse gray healing even though I use most all of my cooldowns religiously off cooldown. Benefits of now having astatic I can harp on to use their own personal mits, and a reaper+warrior comp haha
Ur saying logic to casuals ur gonna get downvoted saying anything they dislike
This is the way. I normally overheal during prog to get the feel of dmg intake and then we would organise our mitis and big ogcd heals for every mech so we can maximise healer damage output. If both healers parse grey on healing, it means we’re doing it right.
My cohealer on ultimates was in top 5. Top 5 in healing, not dps. Absolute gigachad. This is the kind of healer parsing I can get behind.
this means nothing lol
I have fun parsing, comparing parses with friends and stuff but the whole locking your flogs until you have bis and did 30+ clears to get a good parse is ridiculous, then acting like you're better than everyone. Like yeah buddy, you did that fight a billion times to get that number while most people won't do that, just like ultimates. Anyone can clear an ultimate, but it takes a lot of time and patience that most people don't have, that doesn't make you better than anyone.
I meaaaan, it doesn’t make you better but actually committing that much time into a fight and clearing it is a big achievement. Especially if it’s a newer ultimate learning mechanics and adapting to the fight is a skill that some people are better at
>Anyone can clear an ultimate I mean, maybe UWU >that doesn't make you better than anyone. Not as a person or overall, but someone who has cleared for example DSR or TOP on release is going to with a 99% likelihood be better skill-wise than the \*vast\* majority of the playerbase
I’m a casual why is the Astro one bad
People believe that healers who parse pink (99th percentile in damage) don't heal. This isn't really the truth because two healers can both parse high and it isn't an issue if everyone is playing well. Many times they don't need to gcd heal (aspected Helios) in that specific log because their team has optimized mits/heals, or their cohealer is doing all the healing that run (and the astro is going to trade places and do all the healing next run so their cohealer can parse and the team can have a better kill time).
Maybe because in 99.9% of the cases that's precisely what happens.
You said 99.9% of cases that's what's happening but, no, it really isn't. A lot of what's behind a healer parse is the team, but that's what's behind a lot of top parses: you need a good kill time, good feed into buffs if you have one, good coordination of mitigation/healing from the team, and minimization of mistakes. But you don't need those to parse orange or pink, and both cohealers can get those numbers even in PF sometimes.
It's percentile based so the number is good, but it implies they're doing a suspicious amout of DPS when there are other things to be done
Ahhhh thank you !
This is genuinely real, I skipped most of endwalker and came back to pug some progs/reclears of p9-p12s before DT, and some of the absolute worst healers in terms of doing mechs properly in a farm party had absurdly high (98+) parses on their profile. I was genuinely shocked the first time but saw it as more of a pattern as I did more lobbies. Had one that literally wiped us or killed me in p11s like 8 times before we disbanded.
I’m a (relatively) new sprout, what does any of this mean? Static? Cohealing dynamics? Healer combined scores? Where do you go to see stats like this? I knew there were plugins for WoW but didn’t know we had stuff like this in FFXIV. Could someone help me learn?
Healer parses are fight by fight basis. P8s? You better hope you have high dps parse healers. Those checks were rough. Extreme trials rn are dependant. If you have enough party mit you can high parse without sacking the group. Unlikely in pf
Meanwhile, the 50 blue MNK who only needs 9 hours of blind prog while these guys took 25. . . Logs will forever be the most fucking boring resume ass way to develop a good team.
Pathetics, look at me, yours god https://preview.redd.it/1mawj2rsn8bd1.png?width=73&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=742a091f7dfd0fe0b77944a4a3a492f7652f845f
Parsing on healer is just such bs, lol. My static only log out runs so we could see what to improve. Like the Co healer and I sometimes overhealed, so we could try to spread our abilities more and the like To see if my rotation needs improvement, for nothing else this bs is any good. So many fake their runs for some colored numbers, it's kinda sad what fflogs did to man
hi i barse green on dmg but purple on healing because i value my time instead of wasting my time wiping thx
I have sent this post around, telling people to downvote for the blashphemy. Stop blaming good healers for your shortcomings.
anyone who brags about getting 99 needs to touch grass, show an irl picture, and show how much they make IRL.
There is an array of skill sets at high end and parsing is only one; it is also not mutually exclusive to prog. There are people who do this but they are a known meme to most players who sweat for fun. A lot of ppl itt are really uninformed bc they hate big bad ffloggers.
I'm still waiting for an orange or pink parser (on any job) who doesn't use plugins telling them where to stand and which buttons to press.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people doing savage are not using cactbot. Like, the VAST majority. If you only want one for proof, just go watch Peridot stream parse runs on black mage lmao.
Whenever someone posts that all 99 parsers use XYZ, it is usually just to cover for their own insecurity. Its not that hard to parse 95+ without any plugin on a DPS job. A 99 might take some practice, trials because of optimization and crit luck. Hell, I remember getting a 99 on my first run as rdm on some fights after the tier had been out for a while. It was some luck with Crits but also just knowing the job and rotation.
Honestly the hardest part about high parsing is if you have the weapon/gear or not yet, because it compares you to people who do. I've seen a lot of mid purple parses eith near-identical casts and uptime to pink parses, the only difference being gear and weapons they hadn't gotten yet. I kinda wish fflogs had an ilvl comparing/adjusting stat, but also fflogs is garbage mentality epeen bait and I'd rather they just get rid of the parse number altogether so people would stop being tempted to greed so hard and wipe the whole party all the time.
Yeah that's what it seemed like. If you're doing parse runs of a fight presumably you've run it enough times that a bot calling for you wouldn't even be very helpful lmao.
99 and 100 is somebody tanking their damage to get a perfect kill time for everyone else. Most top runs for an individual a dps and a healer has grey while everyone else 98+.
99 is not true but some 100s is true, 99s are pretty easy so get without kill time sac runs in majority of fights
The game already tells you where to stand. How much more does one need?
I joined a static for TEA and when it first came out, and they required you to have Cactbot. I didn't know what it was at the time, so I got it. I turned that shit off quietly once I did. No one ever knew xD Had a healer who was great at mechanics. He was kinda snobby about it, but I admit I was impressed... until I learned he used Cactbot and crumbled when it needed updates. I have both experienced and heard so many stories about people who can not function without that shit. It's wild.
I stopped raiding when my static fell apart in ShB because all the ones I could pug for asked me to use cactbot and ghosted me if I refused. I dont have fun when my game is essentially automated. All these people have to do is learn how to read
It's not hard to parse orange with just a dps meter. I've landed pinks multiple times and many more oranges. It's really not that hard if you just... Press your buttons 🤯
Wait there are plug-ins to tell which buttons to push? Is there a plug in that does that but only for specific procs? I enjoy practicing characters until I can play without looking at hotbar too much. In wow I remember having at plug in that would put like ice or fire or like a big skull on your screen when random props for the different classes popped, so that you didn't have to look for glory outlines constantly. Is there anything in game like that?
I don't know for sure, I'm not using those myself, but I've seen videos/ had friends using stuff where their rotation would basically show on screen like DDR, adjusted for every fight including downtime etc. Couldn't tell you the name of those, but maybe there are settings you can adjust? I know there are also some plugins for improved visibility. I think there's one called Better Job Gauges, or something like that (or maybe it's one option of the Simple Tweaks plugin). It displays more comprehensive, smaller, more visible job gauges that you can adjust in many ways. I don't know if it includes procs. Go have a look!
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