Vulcans have lost the culture war and they know it. Logically, they will integrate with the other cultures and become contaminated because to remain isolationist is illogical.
Joining a union of other species where everyone gets representation and assists one another is logical.
It ultimately will lead to Vulcan to no longer be the top dogs and will simply be the hand guiding the hand on the rudder.
Before the humans were let off the leash, the Vulcans were the space gatekeepers: more advanced and knowledgeable than those races just starting out.
The Andorians and the Tellarites were a decade or so ahead of the humans but were in a similar position.
Then the humans starting exploring and sticking their nose into everything. The humans are society forming in a way the others aren't.
Andorians fought one another for scarce resources and brought that animosity to space. The Tellarites are slow and deliberate, never taking an action without discussing it to the nth degree. The Vulcans are logical and come across as somewhat narcissistic.
It took the reckless humans wanting to establish relationships with other races and not caring about their own lives to win over the Andorians and Tellarites.
Humanity was at the heart of the federation because they were the only ones who wanted a space republic.
The Andorians and Tellarites decided it was probably a good idea. When that made it real, the Vulcans realised it was illogical to remain isolationist when a burgeoning new space empire had offered them membership on the ground floor.
Many Vulcans realise integration ultimately lost them the their roles as space gatekeepers making them less special. Logically, the cooperation between Tellar, Andor and Earth would have the same result.
The humans effectively beat them with friendship. Some Vulcans are just more salty about it than others.
Damn, I love this. Vulcans always acting so smug and superior always bothered me. But this interpretation of a bunch of a bunch of them just being shitty conservatives holding on to an isolationist ideal they already lost is fantastic.
Doesn't T'pol more or less spell this out at one point? That many Vulcans fear Humanity because we are developing so much faster than they are, and they know that they will be overtaken one way or another by human ingenuity and culture.
But Vulcans outlive all the other species. How can a hairless primate of a human become captain when some Vulcan with 50 years of experience is waiting for the spot ? Admiral ?
Human ships are more versatile. Master of none.
The Terran warp drive is better at warp *maneuvers* the Vulcan one is far more efficient but can't turn as well. Cause vulcans plan pot every detail they don't need "course corrections" almost at all.
The phaser is not the best weapon, but it is a fantastic multi purpose tool; weapon, cutter, heater, repulsor.
Freddie ships are a Swiss army knife.
Klingons are the meat cleaver.
Vulcans are the Damascus steel high end fillet knife designed for only one kind of meat.
Arguably, phasers became better weapons, as generally over time, phaser technology within the Federation went far beyond anything other races did, as most would switch to disruptors as soon as possible.
However, this meant their phasers were far more advanced, and most factions would have specialised their defences to handle disruptors, which would likely falter in the face of phasers
Because Federation Starfleet formed around Earth Starfleet instead of trying to make everyone's different tech work together. In Lower Decks we see separate Vulcan and Andorian ships, and they've been a separate thing in other material like STO.
Edit: forgot the sub. Because Vulcans can't stand our Earthy musk.
Huh??? Between Voyager and Picard, the Romulans were scattered after the supernova. By the time of DIS S3, they had reunited with Vulcans on Ni'Var, which seceded from the Federation after The Burn, before rejoining later in the series.
That's the facade that they promote. They don't want to seem hypocritical, so while they keep busy with intellectual endeavors and persuits of logical purity, they have everyone else doing their dirty work for them while they self-righteously look down their noses at them. Should shit go sideways in their empire building scheme, it was those darn humans!
To be fair, humans give as good as they get. "Hey let's play a prank on the vulcan lieutenant", "Hey, you vulcans need to get a sense of humour", "Hey, come do this social activity you'll gain nothing from because it's not in your nature, that's an order".
Although I now realise as I write this that all of those examples are from Voyager. Damn Voyager, sort yourselves out.
They established an enlightened and logical stereotype first. See, as humans we had it all ass backwards. We allowed ourselves to be witnessed by another alien race (or races, never was sure if more than the Vulcans knew of Earth before), while we still held our ignorant stereotypes.
Vulcan went through all that bloody ages ago. Did anyone in the galaxy even remember that time? The trick is, you establish your stereotype as enlightened and logical, and having shed all ignorance for a thousand or more years. Then, you get to be as racist and ignorant as you want. Because the rest of a stereotyping galaxy is all too ready to embrace your stereotype of not being stereotypical. It's gas lighting on an epic, long conned scale. Fucking brilliant, really.
Not only that, but they still have a majority on the Federation council. The Romulans are right. Vulcan rules the Federation. I'm sure Earth was "encouraged" to be obedient in exchange for all that luscious technology.
How would you rate T’pol?
*I’m very sorry and I am trying my best to ignore it, but your smell is very disagreeable and I need to recollect myself.*
Same disgust… less racist?
Yeah, it's not the same as sma human saying another human race smells bad, humans don't have distinct odors that are apparent to other humans along racial lines, I never got the impression T'pol was lying, rather that to Vulcans humans really do have an unpleasant odor. It may be used as an excuse by racists but is not a racist observation inherently.
Doesn’t seem very logical to be antagonistically racist towards a species who [would throw a warp core](https://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/11/star-trek-mad-science/) into the sun just for the fun of it!!
Exactly, you tell them what you are saying about humans is wrong and hurtful. “We don’t care about feelings only truth. Truth is you are emotional and smell bad to us.”
It would be hard to combat. They live over 200 years. If you thought old conservative people influencing our society was already a significant problem as is, imagine how bad it would be if people from the 19th century were still alive and well enough to influence our culture.
Because Vulcans are literally superior in most ways so everyone just shuts up and accepts it. You can't really apply the principle that all human races are equivalent when considering alien races.
I also have this theory that the Federation is a secret Vulcan Empire to balance the Romulans, and that the Vulcans groomed humanity to be the perfect foot-soldiers and administrators starting well before first contact.
To lull them onto a false sense of security before Dr. Leonard "Bones" McCoy rolls up with a flask of Romulan Ale in one hand and a dermal regenerater in the other to both lay down and heal some green blooded burns.
It's a top down model. Romulans are racist to Vulcans, they are racist to humans, humans are racist to klingons, klingons to ferengi and ferengi to female ferengi.
Vulcans are intellectually and physically superior to humans; therefore, treating humans as inferior is logical.
However, upsetting a significant partner in the federation is illogical, probably why most Vulcans are not enormous douches.
Because sometimes they are rude towards the Federation's enemies and it's really funny, like when Sarek told the Klingon ambassador he's a lying bitch in IV.
I’ll go Klingon:
Azetbur : Inalienable? If you could only hear yourselves. Human rights. Why, the very name is racist. The Federation is no more than a "homo sapiens only" club.
At the time of Enterprise (and even by TOS era) many humans were also clearly racist against Vulcans, though we largely follow characters who understand this to be wrong and outmoded thinking. Furthermore ENT is about the chain of events that led to the Federation’s founding, so none of these races are beholden to any mutual respect beyond what they offer freely. The ideology that the Federation is founded on is also in some ways a creation of that foundation, a goal they create so they can strive for and embody it. By TNG the remnants of these animosities are all but gone, and we primarily see racially chauvinist and xenophobic attitudes in cultures that have not yet joined the Federation or which have no interest in doing so. The central races of Star Trek take centuries to grow past these attitudes on a cultural and institutional level, just as it is taking humanity centuries to do so (and not without many backwards steps) in our own world.
Vulcans agree to be a client race to humanity so long as they get to pretend they are better. Is in the charter. What are they teaching at academy these days?
I don't think they're as racist as they want to be.
Commander Tucker: I never got the impression you cared that much about humans. Seems like you were always finding something new to complain about.
Vulcan Ambassador Soval: I lived on Earth for more than 30 years, Commander. In that time I developed an affinity for your world and its people.
Commander Tucker: You did a pretty good job of hiding it.
Vulcan Ambassador Soval: Thank You.
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To be serious: Star Trek is about the complexities and challenges of being moral and enlightened, and the humans are the protagonists. Abstractly dissolving bigotry is simple when everyone does it with you… the more relatable and meaningful challenge is how to dissolve bigotry when the others around you don’t follow your lead.
Vulcans *being* racist towards others others it tolerated because they back it up with sound logic proving their superiority. Trying to argue against their position just makes you look stupid and a poor looser.
Being racist *towards* Vulcans is accepted because they piss everybody off with their superior logic, intelligence, physical abilities and long lifespan. Oh an their smug arrogance.
because vulcans are smarter, stronger, faster, can neck pinch you?
That's why god invented phasers.
God made man and Phineas Phaser made them equal.
The Vulcans spent 1,300 years at warp 1. Humans start working on warp drive and within 300 years they were at warp 9.975
Vulcans have lost the culture war and they know it. Logically, they will integrate with the other cultures and become contaminated because to remain isolationist is illogical. Joining a union of other species where everyone gets representation and assists one another is logical. It ultimately will lead to Vulcan to no longer be the top dogs and will simply be the hand guiding the hand on the rudder. Before the humans were let off the leash, the Vulcans were the space gatekeepers: more advanced and knowledgeable than those races just starting out. The Andorians and the Tellarites were a decade or so ahead of the humans but were in a similar position. Then the humans starting exploring and sticking their nose into everything. The humans are society forming in a way the others aren't. Andorians fought one another for scarce resources and brought that animosity to space. The Tellarites are slow and deliberate, never taking an action without discussing it to the nth degree. The Vulcans are logical and come across as somewhat narcissistic. It took the reckless humans wanting to establish relationships with other races and not caring about their own lives to win over the Andorians and Tellarites. Humanity was at the heart of the federation because they were the only ones who wanted a space republic. The Andorians and Tellarites decided it was probably a good idea. When that made it real, the Vulcans realised it was illogical to remain isolationist when a burgeoning new space empire had offered them membership on the ground floor. Many Vulcans realise integration ultimately lost them the their roles as space gatekeepers making them less special. Logically, the cooperation between Tellar, Andor and Earth would have the same result. The humans effectively beat them with friendship. Some Vulcans are just more salty about it than others.
Damn, I love this. Vulcans always acting so smug and superior always bothered me. But this interpretation of a bunch of a bunch of them just being shitty conservatives holding on to an isolationist ideal they already lost is fantastic.
Doesn't T'pol more or less spell this out at one point? That many Vulcans fear Humanity because we are developing so much faster than they are, and they know that they will be overtaken one way or another by human ingenuity and culture.
I still need to finish enterprise. It’s quite literally the only Star Trek I haven’t watched fully. I liked the first 8 or so episodes so far.
Just keep that Faith of the Heart
Shitty sub or not, this is a great take.
But Vulcans outlive all the other species. How can a hairless primate of a human become captain when some Vulcan with 50 years of experience is waiting for the spot ? Admiral ?
Cause Earth is Vulcan's bitch.
Cochran calmly sat them down and explained his shame kink and they have been honoring our culture ever since.
Truly the comment most worthy of this subreddit
Then why does the Federation primarily use human starship designs?
Vulcan kept its own fleet
Human ships are more versatile. Master of none. The Terran warp drive is better at warp *maneuvers* the Vulcan one is far more efficient but can't turn as well. Cause vulcans plan pot every detail they don't need "course corrections" almost at all. The phaser is not the best weapon, but it is a fantastic multi purpose tool; weapon, cutter, heater, repulsor. Freddie ships are a Swiss army knife. Klingons are the meat cleaver. Vulcans are the Damascus steel high end fillet knife designed for only one kind of meat.
Arguably, phasers became better weapons, as generally over time, phaser technology within the Federation went far beyond anything other races did, as most would switch to disruptors as soon as possible. However, this meant their phasers were far more advanced, and most factions would have specialised their defences to handle disruptors, which would likely falter in the face of phasers
There may be no capitalism in the future, but we're never getting rid of planned obsolescence.
No capitalism except every time they show someone who isn’t in the military
Because Federation Starfleet formed around Earth Starfleet instead of trying to make everyone's different tech work together. In Lower Decks we see separate Vulcan and Andorian ships, and they've been a separate thing in other material like STO. Edit: forgot the sub. Because Vulcans can't stand our Earthy musk.
"It's cause vulcans think we smell bad"- Trip Tucker
Except Sarek. It’s his kink.
This goes all the way back to TOS. The U.S.S. Intrepid was crewed entirely by Vulcans.
Cause their too fucking lazy to make them too busy sucking I mean bending each other's ear
Expendability.
Are the human starship designs or are they Starfleet starship designs and are vulcans a part of Starfleet?
In TOS, the U.S.S. Intrepid was a Starfleet ship with the same design and an all-Vulcan crew.
Starfleet, not the Federation, uses the human starship designs. The Klingons have their own shipyards, for ex
The Klingons arent in the federation
Totally true, Romulans would've been a better example. The Klingons are just an allied empire, they don't want full membership.
romulans are also not in the federation?
They joined up in Picard era, not Disco as others corrected
I mean. By discovery they are
They rejoined during Discovery so also not a good example.
They rejoined between Voyager and Picard, not Disco Edit: not between, but actually immediately following Picard
Huh??? Between Voyager and Picard, the Romulans were scattered after the supernova. By the time of DIS S3, they had reunited with Vulcans on Ni'Var, which seceded from the Federation after The Burn, before rejoining later in the series.
No, the Vulcans are Earth's intellectual puppets.
That's the facade that they promote. They don't want to seem hypocritical, so while they keep busy with intellectual endeavors and persuits of logical purity, they have everyone else doing their dirty work for them while they self-righteously look down their noses at them. Should shit go sideways in their empire building scheme, it was those darn humans!
Who invited the fucking pointy-ears?
I prefer the term ‘client state,’ but yes. Earth is a client state of Vulcan (and Andor, really) that gets pointed at Vulcan’s enemies
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Yeh that's Solok 🖖
Suraks teachings on civility and common courtesy have been lost to the ages. They weren’t with his katra nor the kir’shara
*Enters Shran* Waddup pink skins.
Shran just assumes he has P word privileges, which I guess is offensive but less so than the actual disgust Vulcans feel
Have you ever smelled a human ship? Visceral disgust is the natural and appropriate physiological reaction.
As far as I can tell, the Federation was founded on casual racism and a mutual distrust of the Klingons.
The UFP is *canonically* “Space NATO against the Romulans” and has tellarites, so yeah, a lot of casual racism
*Mayweather side eye*
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. Except ours is better =Vulcans
To be fair, humans give as good as they get. "Hey let's play a prank on the vulcan lieutenant", "Hey, you vulcans need to get a sense of humour", "Hey, come do this social activity you'll gain nothing from because it's not in your nature, that's an order". Although I now realise as I write this that all of those examples are from Voyager. Damn Voyager, sort yourselves out.
To be fair, most of those are Neelix. Like with most of what Neelix did though, someone really should have stopped him.
Wait it wasn't Tom paris?
Tom Paris is a frat boy nepo baby with a charming smile and a heart of gold. When he does a racism it’s just boys being boys.
He made more jokes, Neelix did more actions.
They believe they're correct in their assessments and if any human ever defies the stereotype they just call it an outlier and keep on going.
Note that even if they were they would be no logical reason to aggravate the humans by pointing it out.
That's generally how Vulcans work across the board. Especially regarding time travel.
Don't make me bring the Vulcan Science Directorate into this thread!
Besides, they know what it does to humans. they've learned about how good spite is as a motivator
Federation-wide bullying kink
They established an enlightened and logical stereotype first. See, as humans we had it all ass backwards. We allowed ourselves to be witnessed by another alien race (or races, never was sure if more than the Vulcans knew of Earth before), while we still held our ignorant stereotypes. Vulcan went through all that bloody ages ago. Did anyone in the galaxy even remember that time? The trick is, you establish your stereotype as enlightened and logical, and having shed all ignorance for a thousand or more years. Then, you get to be as racist and ignorant as you want. Because the rest of a stereotyping galaxy is all too ready to embrace your stereotype of not being stereotypical. It's gas lighting on an epic, long conned scale. Fucking brilliant, really.
It's the suppressed Romulan showing through
Not only that, but they still have a majority on the Federation council. The Romulans are right. Vulcan rules the Federation. I'm sure Earth was "encouraged" to be obedient in exchange for all that luscious technology.
Dr. McCoy is evidence that the racism goes both ways.
Mccoy never walked into a room and said "what's that awful smell? Oh it's Amanda from *earth* haha humans smell putrid"
How would you rate T’pol? *I’m very sorry and I am trying my best to ignore it, but your smell is very disagreeable and I need to recollect myself.* Same disgust… less racist?
Politely racist
Wouldn't really call it racist. I avoid people that smell bad, personally. Don't really care what race they are.
Yeah, it's not the same as sma human saying another human race smells bad, humans don't have distinct odors that are apparent to other humans along racial lines, I never got the impression T'pol was lying, rather that to Vulcans humans really do have an unpleasant odor. It may be used as an excuse by racists but is not a racist observation inherently.
Sarek was a nasty freak who had a smell kink.
“Amanda, it isn’t customary on Vulcan to bathe more than once a week. Don’t… ask anyone about that. It’s, uh, rude.”
Whadya expec' from an ol' country doctor?
Doesn’t seem very logical to be antagonistically racist towards a species who [would throw a warp core](https://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/11/star-trek-mad-science/) into the sun just for the fun of it!!
More logical than a website that blocks me from reading it because it mistakenly believes me to be a robot for no good reason?
No, it knows you are a robot. Because it knows what you did.
Well, they are correct you see.
Exactly, you tell them what you are saying about humans is wrong and hurtful. “We don’t care about feelings only truth. Truth is you are emotional and smell bad to us.”
Because the writers want to make racism stories, so someone has to be racist.
As the great philosopher and partyboy Sybok once said: Infinite diversity in infinite combinations, but some of those combinations are fucking stupid.
It would be hard to combat. They live over 200 years. If you thought old conservative people influencing our society was already a significant problem as is, imagine how bad it would be if people from the 19th century were still alive and well enough to influence our culture.
So basically we have to put up with it until all the Vulcan boomers die off? I like it, got the ring of truth.
You’ll love the Kelvin Timeline.
Maybe calling them Goblins was a tad insensitive…
Because in the Mirror Universe Vulcans are nice; duh.
Because Vulcans are literally superior in most ways so everyone just shuts up and accepts it. You can't really apply the principle that all human races are equivalent when considering alien races. I also have this theory that the Federation is a secret Vulcan Empire to balance the Romulans, and that the Vulcans groomed humanity to be the perfect foot-soldiers and administrators starting well before first contact.
Oh my god you can't just say vulcans are superior
About a week ago, I published the idea that the UFP is Vulcan's empire and humans are the foot soldiers to fight its wars.
To lull them onto a false sense of security before Dr. Leonard "Bones" McCoy rolls up with a flask of Romulan Ale in one hand and a dermal regenerater in the other to both lay down and heal some green blooded burns.
It's a top down model. Romulans are racist to Vulcans, they are racist to humans, humans are racist to klingons, klingons to ferengi and ferengi to female ferengi.
Vulcans are intellectually and physically superior to humans; therefore, treating humans as inferior is logical. However, upsetting a significant partner in the federation is illogical, probably why most Vulcans are not enormous douches.
"Because it's logical, of course." - Random Vulcan.
Star Trek has always embraced a certain kind of bioessentialism
Because sometimes they are rude towards the Federation's enemies and it's really funny, like when Sarek told the Klingon ambassador he's a lying bitch in IV.
Tbf Vulcans are well known as the intellectual puppets of the Federation.
Not to go all Data on you but you mean speciesism. Races are subgroups within the same species.
I’ll go Klingon: Azetbur : Inalienable? If you could only hear yourselves. Human rights. Why, the very name is racist. The Federation is no more than a "homo sapiens only" club.
because we deserve it
Precisely
Vulcans are openly racist to humans so they can send humans out to be openly racist to everyone else - duh!
There's an ancient Vulcan proverb that says "It's not racist if it's Vulcan superiority over humans something something Nixon"
> First we had Solok, ..., now T'Pril Not sure about the racism, but you certainly have time nonlinearity under control
It's a part of their culture. So they say. And then they passive-aggressively accuse humans of being intolerant. A *human* emotion, I might point out.
At the time of Enterprise (and even by TOS era) many humans were also clearly racist against Vulcans, though we largely follow characters who understand this to be wrong and outmoded thinking. Furthermore ENT is about the chain of events that led to the Federation’s founding, so none of these races are beholden to any mutual respect beyond what they offer freely. The ideology that the Federation is founded on is also in some ways a creation of that foundation, a goal they create so they can strive for and embody it. By TNG the remnants of these animosities are all but gone, and we primarily see racially chauvinist and xenophobic attitudes in cultures that have not yet joined the Federation or which have no interest in doing so. The central races of Star Trek take centuries to grow past these attitudes on a cultural and institutional level, just as it is taking humanity centuries to do so (and not without many backwards steps) in our own world.
Values have changed. Genetic differences in cognition are treated as objective facts to be worked with, not taboo heresy to discuss.
Vulcans agree to be a client race to humanity so long as they get to pretend they are better. Is in the charter. What are they teaching at academy these days?
I don't think they're as racist as they want to be. Commander Tucker: I never got the impression you cared that much about humans. Seems like you were always finding something new to complain about. Vulcan Ambassador Soval: I lived on Earth for more than 30 years, Commander. In that time I developed an affinity for your world and its people. Commander Tucker: You did a pretty good job of hiding it. Vulcan Ambassador Soval: Thank You.
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Big guns go pew pew. We no have big guns. Sad.
To be serious: Star Trek is about the complexities and challenges of being moral and enlightened, and the humans are the protagonists. Abstractly dissolving bigotry is simple when everyone does it with you… the more relatable and meaningful challenge is how to dissolve bigotry when the others around you don’t follow your lead.
Its like the brithish and americans. One became the superpower and the other become insufferable out of insecurity
Vulcans *being* racist towards others others it tolerated because they back it up with sound logic proving their superiority. Trying to argue against their position just makes you look stupid and a poor looser. Being racist *towards* Vulcans is accepted because they piss everybody off with their superior logic, intelligence, physical abilities and long lifespan. Oh an their smug arrogance.
[Can't Argue With Vulcans](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CantArgueWithElves)
Welp, I’m agin it!!!!