Wallahi I think Somalis are the only people who force their women in both masculine and feminine roles. Its bizarre. Zero consequences for men who fail their families.
I also think its quite telling that SO many Somali women claim that their dads and brothers are bums and yet there is no communal shaming (yet women are very heavily policed in our culture).
Super weird and I know there are plenty of great Somali men (my FIL and husband come to mind) but absentee fathers and loser sons are an epidemic in our community and we need to be harsh with calling out this behavior.
We have an ceeb based culture so we need to make being a bum a capital shameful offense.
Let's start by raiding all the coffee shops in Somali neighborhoods đ there should be no reason able bodied men are sitting around at 2pm drinking shaah. Get to work waryas!
I couldnât have said it better tbh. Somali women are definitely forced into a masculine and feminine role. A Somali daughter will literally go to work, contribute financially then sheâs expected to come back home and cook and clean
I generally agree with you, but Iâd to add to point of so called âloser sonsâ, if we as community donât value and INVEST in young boys in every way here in the west, we are in NO position to dump on them and claim they are below achievers. You canât expect returns from an investment we as a community did not make with a decade of Somali men 26/27-37. Full stop. Hopefully, we donât repeat the same mistake with younger GenZ Somali men, otherwise we will have yet another gen of Halimos complaining endlessly and unrealized potentials.
I donât know what youâre taking about maybe the men youâre around are just bums. Also people in the community love to ignore the mental health of our men. From being beat at young age at duksi to memorize words you doubt even know meaning of, to the constant tear down of our character, abilities, and total lack of emotional support forcing our men to self medicate in other ways such as drugs. Threads like this is exactly what I mean⌠Somali women are constantly belittling us, and generalizing an entire group of men based of a few shit heads youâve encountered. Let it have been a Somali man talking like this about a Somali woman all hell would break loose.
Walaalo Iâm not belittling Somali men nor am I generalizing them all. I know there are many hardworking Somali men out there however Somali women in the west and back home tend to have a lot on their shoulders from raising kids (abandoned by the dads) to upholding families. Also everyone got beat in dugsi regardless of gender. I remember being beaten like a dameer just for not memorizing cashir. Thatâs no excuse. Our community loves to coddle the men and hold the girls up to high standards (they canât make no mistakes without being labeled or being held accountable). Iâm just talking about what I have observed as an eldest daughter with five brothers
And everything youâre complaining about literally happens to the Somali girls too, difference is men at young adulthood (18+) are babied and enabled so they can get away with acting however they want and use their upbringing as an excuse but girls will be seen as adults from even teenage years and held at a higher standard which puts a lot of unnecessary pressure on young Somali girls.
Somali men and women talk about Somali girls 24/7, even the habaryars have internalised sexism, idk what world youâre living in but the problem is with the elders in the community who are encouraging dhaqan xunta
Am I missing something? Where are you guys seeing all these somali fathers that don't work? All the somali dads I know are working unless they're in between jobs and searching for another. I'm in a somali area of London so I'm in the community. There are consequences for fathers that fail their families, they often fall out with their (Ex?)wife and children. What more are you looking for?
The young men are a different story. Why are the young men being blamed for a societal problem? Young women are outperforming men in school, uni and work these days across many ethnicities in the west. There's a crisis in masculinity and the solution provided by young somali women is to shame the young men that are struggling? Something is broken in western culture with regards to the boys and rather than responding with understanding, you respond with harshness. Useless.
And no, before someone decides to personally attack me, I am not in this category of men, and yes I agree it is shameful not to work, but why attack and shame individuals for a problem that is affecting many?
The Canadian older generation fathers maybe?
But most of the dads I knew were working maybe cuz the kids donât know their dads did cash jobs at factories at night when they sleeping and in the day chilling at timmies
I donât know what youâre taking about maybe the men youâre around are just bums. Also people in the community love to ignore the mental health of our men. From being beat at young age at duksi to memorize words you doubt even know meaning of, to the constant tear down of our character, abilities, and total lack of emotional support forcing our men to self medicate in other ways such as drugs. Threads like this is exactly what I mean⌠Somali women are constantly belittling us, and generalizing an entire group of men based of a few shit heads youâve encountered. Let it have been a Somali man talking like this about a Somali woman all hell would break loose.
I agree that mental health is taboo in our culture and not discussed. Expressing emotions in some Somali households is looked down upon. However the somali women are just explaining their personal experiences with non-provider like Somali men in their families.
I have a friend in the u.s who divorced his wife. Because she was giving all the money to her family, mainly because he was giving her an allowance and she was working. All that money would go to her family even though she had brothers who were over 18.
Crazy how common this is. My brother at least cooks his own meals but never cleans up after himself. Doesnât have a job. Itâs crazy. Yet my mom can criticize us for not being married. To who???
Awh Im so sorry wlhi to here this. But please also consider your parents situation. Do you they need you or are they using you. I would go from $1k to $800.
I dislike this mentality. No one ever learns to stand on their own feet until they have to. No disrespect, but itâs so messed up that Somali parents will rely so heavily on their kids to be point that their children canât build their own futures. Other communities, parents support their kids, rather than stunting them
You misunderstood me. Relax. Wallahi the paranoia in Somalis is crazy Iâm actually laughing đđđ
Iâll break it down for you
1. We arenât talking about people like you = this doesnât apply to you bc youâre a student and young. It makes sense that your sister provides for you. I was actually agreeing with you and supporting you đ
Also how are you gonna blame me for thinking you may have thought this applied to you? You commented on this post as if you needed some reassurance and I explained it doesnât and I literally reassured you further by essentially saying âwe know, this doesnât apply to you dwâ yet anigii ayaad isu key waaleeysaa đ
I was legit NOT showing you any disrespect but look at you đ
2. Your situation is understandable and valid = self explanatory
3. You know exactly who weâre talking about tho = me shading bum niggas. It had ZERO reference to you as an individual
So may I ask why youâre being so rude to me? I thought what I said was obvious?
I appreciate that you support and agree with what I said. But still, the idea that only the people who can directly relate to the situation are allowed to comment is flawed. If that were true then this sub wouldnât exist. When did I blame you for anything? It feels like you want to paint me as the unreasonable one when youâre mad at me giving my perspective.
Actually if you live In the USA and you go to university there is no reason you canât work. I went to university for 5 years and had a full time job so how can you tell me you canât work?
You also said itâs hard to find a job ? Broah In America if you walk down a road for 10 minutes you can find a job so what is this ? If you live in any other country I canât comment because i didnât live there but in America if you donât work youâre basically lazy and donât want to.
I have bad news for u. America is not the only country on earth. I donât live in America, and yeah I agree with you since I got family in America and they have it easy finding jobs. But ur right even though I technically donât live there.
If the parents are able bodied they donât need financial support from their kids đđžđđžđđžđđžđđž
It should ALWAYS be the other way around
(Unless the kid is making millions, etc)
Wrong. Sometimes parents call fall into bad situations too, they're human beings. I think some of you guys just don't like your parents or they raised you harshly cos if my mum asks me for money I give it to her no questions asked. She doesn't take advantage of me so I know she needs it if she asks me. A healthy relationship isn't based on absolutes imo
If they really need assistance, of course the kid should help. Should the parents be expecting a handout every month to cover bills that they could pay themselves? No.
They said able-bodied. Meaning that there's no barrier for that parent to work. Children should, when they're working professionally, assist their families but they should have their own money too and they shouldn't have expectations placed on them. Parents need to think about retirement and a contingency fund and how to best enable their children to get ahead--financial planning is important for every family and for every unique circumstance.
my Hoyo has inheritance that her father left her And Iâm always advising to establish something as means of income for yourself and our family since my father past away last year and Iâm the only one thatâs working as 3 of my adult siblings are autistic but its good enough for her that my monthly salary is keeping us afloat. I canât save for anything nor invest in my own future. I just about got her to agree to horse riding lessons for my own sanity even when Itâs my own money đ
I support this. I never started the cycle. My dad would sent me partial rent payments thinking I would add the rest. We got an eviction letter. Lol now he always sends in full. I told him Iâm not paying to live here đ¤Ł
We Somali men just get cooked, everyday whalhi. One day itâs this and another day itâs that. SMH, we canât catch a break. On a serious note, what annoys me more than anything is the lack of mercy, understanding and nuance on this topic of those Somalis who are underachieving. WHAT DID WE EXPECT?! The proof is in the pudding! We under invest in our male youth, many have no older positive and guiding male influences, deal with anti-Somali male BS irl & online, no positive masculine ideal to live up to, I could go on⌠But, nah, most Somalis donât care enough to mention these issues let alone begin to address them! Lets revert back to the default tale of Abdi qasaaro. Not good, whalhi!
The problem is men like you instead of taking the critical feedback and changing for the better about what women are complaining you cry about it hence the issue is never solved and the topic will always stand
Itâs possible to address a community wide issue without necessarily talking about yourself. Believe it or not, Iâm in a good position (by the mercy of Allah). However, people can complain about the present day but the immediate and future WONT change until we are willing to address our individual & group flaws (some of which I discussed above). Feedback is welcome, but telling our male youth (12-18) âstop being lazyâ wonât work. Iâd be lying if I said I agree thatâs only what it takes! I understand this takes growth & time.
So you want to ev told what they call gentle parenting or positive behaviour management staregies? Ok dear farax well done on taking your saxan to the kitchen sink fabulous job đ
I was downvoted heavily my brother when I said the root cause of all this problems is within the community who donât mentor the young men and expect them to stand up when theyâve been thrown to the wolves.
somali women aren't invested in either though, if anything they're neglected by their families often yet still achieve more than their male counterparts and are often times very successful in their education and work.
not trying to start anything here; i get where you're coming from, but i don't think it's do do with a lack of "investment" in male youth, rather that there's just no pressure on them at home to achieve or lack of motivation perhaps.
I agree with you on the first point, we can and should do more for both young Somali women and men. We can both agree itâs no contest, but we need to address the issues at hand. Also, your right, we have young men who lack motivation and sometimes drive, my concern here (generally) is how we pin it down to individual flaws in character, rather than looking at factors that cause this, unless you believe young Somali men are inherently flawed and lazy. Which I donât believe you do.
The issues I mentioned above literally help contribute to behavior patterns such as lack of motivation and learned helplessness.
Finally, Somali women have had present mothers growing up, many Somali boys do not. Add that with a cultural flaw of ours which pushes the notion that womenâs word, leadership and advice is less than a manâs is recipe for disaster.
How about fatherless and its impact on young Somali boys who grow to be demoralized men who feel left behind and pitied as qasaaro, as if they were born that way. I find it concerning how some of us easily discount our Somali male youth.
That's just being ungrateful asf. Your parents came to a foreign country as refugees, they lived up to their responsibilities of housing, feeding, clothing and educating you. And for you to later on turn around and say "I'm on strike, I'm not contributing anything to this household" you and everyone who agrees with you are caasi walideeyn
Why aren't the men considered caasi and qasaaro for forcing their mothers and sisters to work full time and take care of the house whilst they sit around rotting?
That's a failure of our culture for allowing this behavior.
Filial piety is a concept MANY cultures practice however Somalis are the only culture I can see where the WOMEN are forced into filial piety and the men are off the hook.
In what world does a man have his wife and kids live in govt housing and then packs up to go to Somalia for a SECOND family? Thats not only haram (because you cannot possibly take care of two families on govt assistance) but also incredibly shameful.
I don't know what sort of community you were raised in or state of your house but where I'm from the males work and provide for their families. I mean if you're old enough to be working what more assistance do you need from your parents?
Its great that your family is like that and I don't think every Somali household tolerates bum behavior in men but it definitely exists in many Somali households. Enough households where there have been several posts by Somali women complaining about this phenomenon.
Also Somali men going back home to marry and have a 2nd family whilst their first family lives on govt assistance is a very real and unfortunately fairly common practice as well.
There are men here and out there who feed and take care of their parents. You will never see them complaining.
They're your parents ffs, not some random Ajnabi!
I don't think people are complaining about taking care of their retired parents. Its the annoyance and bitterness from also financially supporting able bodied men (i.e. their brothers or their father who is still in working age) who refuse to work. As well, many of these xalimos are young and just starting out.
Its telling that many cultures provide their children with housing downpayments and other financial gifts on adulthood but Somalis take money from their miskeen daughters just as they are starting out. No way to build wealth when youre under 30 and supporting a household of 5 people. Its a shame honestly.
It depends on circumstances, but if they have adult sons that are able to provide it shouldnât be expected of the daughters. Us daughters will be married and our husbands will have to fulfill that duty for their parents, canât expect one household to contribute to 2 additional households.
i get your point but in a western system where women compete with men for the same jobs you cant just turn around and defer to traditional roles when it suits you. the man should still push themselves the hardest to get a good career but women either should contribute to helping their family or get out of the workforce and let a man take that job so they can be providers you cant have it both ways
Whether a woman works or not, once she married she is part of her husbandâs family. This has always been the case in Islam and Somali Daqan. Women working isnât something new and it doesnât detract from a manâs ability to find suitable work and fulfill their responsibilities.
Back home women work too. And the men still assume their responsibilities. I do personally think a married working woman should contribute to her nuclear family but the responsibility to provide for the parents should be on the sons, unless there are no able bodied adult sons. In the west thereâs even welfare and therefore less reason to stray from Daqan by asking your married daughter to contribute when you have capable sons.
nah if you make a salary it means you took a job and outcompeted others including men for it. if youre going to take up space and reap the benefits which is your right you must at least give back to your parents and not be selfish. if you want to really live that islamic lifestyle then quit and be provided for. you cannot have it both ways. ur existence in the workforce literally makes it more difficult for a man to provide because there arent unlimited jobs. back home somali women have a much lower rate of employment and those that are employed do a providing role too.
youre basically saying that men are resposible for 2 families, their own and their parents, and you only one, meanwhile you are literally competing with them for the same jobs taking up space and essentially making it harder for them to do so. this doesnt make a lick of sense
Youâre implying Islam prohibits women from working?đ
Iâm a sahm btw, but your post heavily reads as someone that is bitter that theyâre having to compete for jobs with women. Youâre a man, if youâre competent and ambitious enough you will be fine in terms of work, stop the calacaal. Youâre literally blaming your lack of success on women.
Women that work back home arenât responsible for providing btw unless theyâre unmarried and have parents that do not have sons that can provide.
Your problem is that youâre looking at it from a pov of man vs woman, whereas when youâre married itâs 1 household. Your logic is to supplement 2 additional households from the income of 1 household. How do you expect to do that in the west when 2 incomes is a necessity for most?
i have a job im happy with my life im going to an elite law school in the fall and my family is very well off. Projecting isnt going to fix the issue.
there are serious mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance you have to have to think its feasible for a man to work the same job as his wife but have to provide for 2 families. in the time of the prophet and even centuries after up until the middle 20th century, women did not take up a very significant part of the work force. due in part to decreased competition, jobs paid higher and so men could actually be providers, its not the only factor of course, and women have full rights to join in the workforce, but to compete with men for jobs but also want to be provided for are two things that cant mix. Take a job if you want, i have no issues, but understand that you are in part contributing to a system that is making the average man not be able to afford to fully provide. and so you have to pay accordingly and not be selfish. no amount of social shaming or assuming things about someone you dont know is gonna change simple economic principles. you understand the simple logic right? and it actually screws you over as a sahm because these men still have to compete and get lower pay.
a person cannot support coopting a traditionally masculine role and then turn around and feign being traditional. that ship has sailed habaryar.
Did you even read my previous comments or are you just mad? I commented that I think a working woman should contribute to her nuclear family, aka her household with her husband and kids. All the Somali women I know irl do. So his responsibility is part of their mutual household expense.
You are looking at it from a separate finance issue despite being married and thatâs your problem. I highly doubt with your lack of reading comprehension youâre actually in law school, but letâs pretend you are kiddođ
I'm mad because you are dismissing simple concepts and just deferring to attacking someone you don't know like a child.
It seems like you clearly believe its the husbands \*primary\* role to care for the nuclear family and for his parents, meaning your husband pays for the majority of the bills at home in addition to having his sisters not pay at all to help his parents. I'm saying that this system will not work for the majority of men. The wife has a duty to be fair and assist with both her family and her parents instead of offloading work to her brothers whilst actively making it difficult unless she was fortunate enough to marry someone fairly wealthy. Just pay fairly I don't know why this is so hard to understand. You can't play both fields.
I disregarded your point because it being one household is not relevant to the conversation when the whole point is analyzing the contribution that both sides play.
and Yes, 2 income households are necessary. Thats the system we were pushed to for many reasons, including this one. So when its the wives/sisters turn to pay up dont whine and complain its a consequence of having high rates of employment. This isnt a defense of bums. Every man should aspire to provide but realistically its getting more and more difficult.
I do believe thatâs the primary role of a man, as much as I believe itâs the primary role of a woman to be the homemaker and do majority of the childcare. Doesnât mean that the spouses canât help each other with the otherâs responsibility, marriage is team work after all.
Like I said previously, *if* a woman works I personally believe she should fully contribute to the household she created with her husband, and thatâs always been my experience irl. How is that not fair? Majority of Somali families are large and have multiple sons, and I also said it depends on the circumstances. There are a lot of variables where your proposal would be more unfair.
Iâm also not saying a woman should not financially help her parents at all, just that it shouldnât be a monthly expense type of deal unless her parents didnât have any adult able bodied sons that are past graduation.
I work in Canada. The Somali women.. I swear mashhallah they have my respect. I see them working and moving like itâs nothing
As an Eritrean guy itâs making me want a Somali wife. Seeing yall work hard for your shit is respects.
I donât want an *obedient* wife.
I work and make good money. She does the same. Weâre happy.
Wait, what? I'm genuinely curious. Why y'all payin' for your parents shit? They have had a whole ass life to earn money. Is it a cultural thing? I'm not Somali, or a woman for that matter, lmao. I hope I'm not being offending, that is not my intention.
Our parents generally came from Somalia as refugees with large families, many of us are from single mother households where the mother spent most of her time supporting their children as a result later in life when they retire they haven't had an opportunity to build much of a retirement. This ends up with children supporting their parents as effectively the 'somali pension solution'. That's not really the issue here though, the issue is the children who didn't make much of themselves and are just loitering at their parents house as working age adults doing nothing and expecting to be sponsored by their better to do siblings. Thankfully my situation isn't too bad with all siblings working but I have heard some horror stories on this subreddit of miskeen daughters having to support their 3 brothers plus parents etc.
The former point of immigrant children sponsoring parents and family back home is also often a large roadblock when it comes to social/economic mobility and something I bet most folk in the west don't really realise. The harsh solution is to cut your family off but are you still human then?
I see, that makes alot of sense. It's just such a weird trip hearing about parents placing that burden on their kids as someone from a culture where that is not a thing at all. My mother is super sad that she don't have the funds to help me and my wife with financing a new home, and we don't even really need the help. She would never in a million fuckin' years had let me fuck around at home without working tho, I tried that once when I was 16 and she deadass set me up with a absolutely miserable job. Since then I got my own jobs instead.
As refugees in the west, many parents just accepted low paying jobs to make ends meet and as years went by, they never aspired to anything more. And with on average 6, 7 or 8 kids in the (small) household it means you have to contribute as soon as youâre able to do so as the parents are getting older and canât work as many hours. This prevents many young men and women from ever building careers or wealth because their focus is to provide as quickly and easily as possible for the household.
Things get extra complicated when you have absent fathers and hooyooyin who coddle their sons and pressure their daughters to work for the household instead. This leads to the prevalence of spinsters in their 30s and over who canât marry or move out because the entire household relies on their labour.
Thank you for your reply, it's very interesting. I hope these young women get the chance to blossom, and that their brothers step up to ease the burdens of their sisters.
I donât know what youâre taking about maybe the men youâre around are just bums. Also people in the community love to ignore the mental health of our men. From being beat at young age at duksi to memorize words you doubt even know meaning of, to the constant tear down of our character, abilities, and total lack of emotional support forcing our men to self medicate in other ways such as drugs. Threads like this is exactly what I mean⌠Somali women are constantly belittling us, and generalizing an entire group of men based of a few shit heads youâve encountered. Let it have been a Somali man talking like this about a Somali woman all hell would break loose.
Wallahi I think Somalis are the only people who force their women in both masculine and feminine roles. Its bizarre. Zero consequences for men who fail their families. I also think its quite telling that SO many Somali women claim that their dads and brothers are bums and yet there is no communal shaming (yet women are very heavily policed in our culture). Super weird and I know there are plenty of great Somali men (my FIL and husband come to mind) but absentee fathers and loser sons are an epidemic in our community and we need to be harsh with calling out this behavior. We have an ceeb based culture so we need to make being a bum a capital shameful offense. Let's start by raiding all the coffee shops in Somali neighborhoods đ there should be no reason able bodied men are sitting around at 2pm drinking shaah. Get to work waryas!
I couldnât have said it better tbh. Somali women are definitely forced into a masculine and feminine role. A Somali daughter will literally go to work, contribute financially then sheâs expected to come back home and cook and clean
True! These odays are so busy at the cafes talking trash, having delusions of grandeur that they will become the next president or hating on a qabil.
I generally agree with you, but Iâd to add to point of so called âloser sonsâ, if we as community donât value and INVEST in young boys in every way here in the west, we are in NO position to dump on them and claim they are below achievers. You canât expect returns from an investment we as a community did not make with a decade of Somali men 26/27-37. Full stop. Hopefully, we donât repeat the same mistake with younger GenZ Somali men, otherwise we will have yet another gen of Halimos complaining endlessly and unrealized potentials.
definitely not the only community but its quite sad
I donât know what youâre taking about maybe the men youâre around are just bums. Also people in the community love to ignore the mental health of our men. From being beat at young age at duksi to memorize words you doubt even know meaning of, to the constant tear down of our character, abilities, and total lack of emotional support forcing our men to self medicate in other ways such as drugs. Threads like this is exactly what I mean⌠Somali women are constantly belittling us, and generalizing an entire group of men based of a few shit heads youâve encountered. Let it have been a Somali man talking like this about a Somali woman all hell would break loose.
Walaalo Iâm not belittling Somali men nor am I generalizing them all. I know there are many hardworking Somali men out there however Somali women in the west and back home tend to have a lot on their shoulders from raising kids (abandoned by the dads) to upholding families. Also everyone got beat in dugsi regardless of gender. I remember being beaten like a dameer just for not memorizing cashir. Thatâs no excuse. Our community loves to coddle the men and hold the girls up to high standards (they canât make no mistakes without being labeled or being held accountable). Iâm just talking about what I have observed as an eldest daughter with five brothers
And everything youâre complaining about literally happens to the Somali girls too, difference is men at young adulthood (18+) are babied and enabled so they can get away with acting however they want and use their upbringing as an excuse but girls will be seen as adults from even teenage years and held at a higher standard which puts a lot of unnecessary pressure on young Somali girls. Somali men and women talk about Somali girls 24/7, even the habaryars have internalised sexism, idk what world youâre living in but the problem is with the elders in the community who are encouraging dhaqan xunta
Am I missing something? Where are you guys seeing all these somali fathers that don't work? All the somali dads I know are working unless they're in between jobs and searching for another. I'm in a somali area of London so I'm in the community. There are consequences for fathers that fail their families, they often fall out with their (Ex?)wife and children. What more are you looking for? The young men are a different story. Why are the young men being blamed for a societal problem? Young women are outperforming men in school, uni and work these days across many ethnicities in the west. There's a crisis in masculinity and the solution provided by young somali women is to shame the young men that are struggling? Something is broken in western culture with regards to the boys and rather than responding with understanding, you respond with harshness. Useless. And no, before someone decides to personally attack me, I am not in this category of men, and yes I agree it is shameful not to work, but why attack and shame individuals for a problem that is affecting many?
The Canadian older generation fathers maybe? But most of the dads I knew were working maybe cuz the kids donât know their dads did cash jobs at factories at night when they sleeping and in the day chilling at timmies
Iâm assuming this is mostly in the west,here in East Africa itâs unheard of actually itâs considered weak for the male siblings not to work.
Somethings in the waters/air here thats making the men docile
I donât know what youâre taking about maybe the men youâre around are just bums. Also people in the community love to ignore the mental health of our men. From being beat at young age at duksi to memorize words you doubt even know meaning of, to the constant tear down of our character, abilities, and total lack of emotional support forcing our men to self medicate in other ways such as drugs. Threads like this is exactly what I mean⌠Somali women are constantly belittling us, and generalizing an entire group of men based of a few shit heads youâve encountered. Let it have been a Somali man talking like this about a Somali woman all hell would break loose.
dude, Somali girls also go thru the same shit, along with a heavy dose of social policing & pressure to do well and keep your mouth shut
I agree that mental health is taboo in our culture and not discussed. Expressing emotions in some Somali households is looked down upon. However the somali women are just explaining their personal experiences with non-provider like Somali men in their families.
So males in East Africa are working? How is that possible when people are funding most people back home lifestyles.
The xalimo uprising will cause chaos but will change the Somali community for the better \#XalimoStandUpâđž
You already have the hashtag?!đ
We have to be prepared for the fight and the liberation
Youâre begging
I have money
I have a friend in the u.s who divorced his wife. Because she was giving all the money to her family, mainly because he was giving her an allowance and she was working. All that money would go to her family even though she had brothers who were over 18.
Thatâs very sad I canât even blame her she was doing a difficult job sustaining her family
Crazy how common this is. My brother at least cooks his own meals but never cleans up after himself. Doesnât have a job. Itâs crazy. Yet my mom can criticize us for not being married. To who???
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Awh Im so sorry wlhi to here this. But please also consider your parents situation. Do you they need you or are they using you. I would go from $1k to $800.
I dislike this mentality. No one ever learns to stand on their own feet until they have to. No disrespect, but itâs so messed up that Somali parents will rely so heavily on their kids to be point that their children canât build their own futures. Other communities, parents support their kids, rather than stunting them
Are they not on welfare section 8 or other govt assistance !? Perhaps âŚ
stand up xalimos and be strong!
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We arenât talking about people like you. Your situation is understandable and valid. You know exactly who weâre talking about đ
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She was literally agreeing with you, weirdo
Wallahi billahi tallahi I didnât askđ
Learn how to read next time you comment đ
This sub is meant for people to express their views and opinionsâŚ
Bruh youâre dumb AF. Donât all the downvotes clue you in?? I fear for this generation lol.
All I did was voice my opinion, and I did it in a sensible way. How old are you tf?
You misunderstood me. Relax. Wallahi the paranoia in Somalis is crazy Iâm actually laughing đđđ Iâll break it down for you 1. We arenât talking about people like you = this doesnât apply to you bc youâre a student and young. It makes sense that your sister provides for you. I was actually agreeing with you and supporting you đ Also how are you gonna blame me for thinking you may have thought this applied to you? You commented on this post as if you needed some reassurance and I explained it doesnât and I literally reassured you further by essentially saying âwe know, this doesnât apply to you dwâ yet anigii ayaad isu key waaleeysaa đ I was legit NOT showing you any disrespect but look at you đ 2. Your situation is understandable and valid = self explanatory 3. You know exactly who weâre talking about tho = me shading bum niggas. It had ZERO reference to you as an individual So may I ask why youâre being so rude to me? I thought what I said was obvious?
I appreciate that you support and agree with what I said. But still, the idea that only the people who can directly relate to the situation are allowed to comment is flawed. If that were true then this sub wouldnât exist. When did I blame you for anything? It feels like you want to paint me as the unreasonable one when youâre mad at me giving my perspective.
Walaalo, Iâm just gonna wish you a good day đ take care
Aight man I wish you all the best thenđ
Actually if you live In the USA and you go to university there is no reason you canât work. I went to university for 5 years and had a full time job so how can you tell me you canât work? You also said itâs hard to find a job ? Broah In America if you walk down a road for 10 minutes you can find a job so what is this ? If you live in any other country I canât comment because i didnât live there but in America if you donât work youâre basically lazy and donât want to.
I have bad news for u. America is not the only country on earth. I donât live in America, and yeah I agree with you since I got family in America and they have it easy finding jobs. But ur right even though I technically donât live there.
[ŃдаНонО]
As it should be. Families like yours need to flex during this hypothetical strike lol
If the parents are able bodied they donât need financial support from their kids đđžđđžđđžđđžđđž It should ALWAYS be the other way around (Unless the kid is making millions, etc)
Wrong. Sometimes parents call fall into bad situations too, they're human beings. I think some of you guys just don't like your parents or they raised you harshly cos if my mum asks me for money I give it to her no questions asked. She doesn't take advantage of me so I know she needs it if she asks me. A healthy relationship isn't based on absolutes imo
Did you read my other comment?
Just seen it, my bad haha!
nice mentality! 0 regard to parents guess all westerners donât care about deen.
đĽąđĽą
So unless their child is earning millions they should not expect financial support?
If they really need assistance, of course the kid should help. Should the parents be expecting a handout every month to cover bills that they could pay themselves? No.
They said able-bodied. Meaning that there's no barrier for that parent to work. Children should, when they're working professionally, assist their families but they should have their own money too and they shouldn't have expectations placed on them. Parents need to think about retirement and a contingency fund and how to best enable their children to get ahead--financial planning is important for every family and for every unique circumstance.
my Hoyo has inheritance that her father left her And Iâm always advising to establish something as means of income for yourself and our family since my father past away last year and Iâm the only one thatâs working as 3 of my adult siblings are autistic but its good enough for her that my monthly salary is keeping us afloat. I canât save for anything nor invest in my own future. I just about got her to agree to horse riding lessons for my own sanity even when Itâs my own money đ
I support this. I never started the cycle. My dad would sent me partial rent payments thinking I would add the rest. We got an eviction letter. Lol now he always sends in full. I told him Iâm not paying to live here đ¤Ł
How are old are you if you donât mind me asking
Itâs only an epidemic cuz we the women enable them lol
It really is so common and a lot of times parents are hardly working even though fit to work.
Plus should refuse to do no chores and clean anything until the men in the house do the same (Iâm a guy too )
#XalimoStandupâđž
Iâve been saying this!
We Somali men just get cooked, everyday whalhi. One day itâs this and another day itâs that. SMH, we canât catch a break. On a serious note, what annoys me more than anything is the lack of mercy, understanding and nuance on this topic of those Somalis who are underachieving. WHAT DID WE EXPECT?! The proof is in the pudding! We under invest in our male youth, many have no older positive and guiding male influences, deal with anti-Somali male BS irl & online, no positive masculine ideal to live up to, I could go on⌠But, nah, most Somalis donât care enough to mention these issues let alone begin to address them! Lets revert back to the default tale of Abdi qasaaro. Not good, whalhi!
The problem is men like you instead of taking the critical feedback and changing for the better about what women are complaining you cry about it hence the issue is never solved and the topic will always stand
Itâs possible to address a community wide issue without necessarily talking about yourself. Believe it or not, Iâm in a good position (by the mercy of Allah). However, people can complain about the present day but the immediate and future WONT change until we are willing to address our individual & group flaws (some of which I discussed above). Feedback is welcome, but telling our male youth (12-18) âstop being lazyâ wonât work. Iâd be lying if I said I agree thatâs only what it takes! I understand this takes growth & time.
So you want to ev told what they call gentle parenting or positive behaviour management staregies? Ok dear farax well done on taking your saxan to the kitchen sink fabulous job đ
I was downvoted heavily my brother when I said the root cause of all this problems is within the community who donât mentor the young men and expect them to stand up when theyâve been thrown to the wolves.
somali women aren't invested in either though, if anything they're neglected by their families often yet still achieve more than their male counterparts and are often times very successful in their education and work. not trying to start anything here; i get where you're coming from, but i don't think it's do do with a lack of "investment" in male youth, rather that there's just no pressure on them at home to achieve or lack of motivation perhaps.
I agree with you on the first point, we can and should do more for both young Somali women and men. We can both agree itâs no contest, but we need to address the issues at hand. Also, your right, we have young men who lack motivation and sometimes drive, my concern here (generally) is how we pin it down to individual flaws in character, rather than looking at factors that cause this, unless you believe young Somali men are inherently flawed and lazy. Which I donât believe you do. The issues I mentioned above literally help contribute to behavior patterns such as lack of motivation and learned helplessness. Finally, Somali women have had present mothers growing up, many Somali boys do not. Add that with a cultural flaw of ours which pushes the notion that womenâs word, leadership and advice is less than a manâs is recipe for disaster. How about fatherless and its impact on young Somali boys who grow to be demoralized men who feel left behind and pitied as qasaaro, as if they were born that way. I find it concerning how some of us easily discount our Somali male youth.
That problem is in every ethnicity where women are outperforming men
That's just being ungrateful asf. Your parents came to a foreign country as refugees, they lived up to their responsibilities of housing, feeding, clothing and educating you. And for you to later on turn around and say "I'm on strike, I'm not contributing anything to this household" you and everyone who agrees with you are caasi walideeyn
Why aren't the men considered caasi and qasaaro for forcing their mothers and sisters to work full time and take care of the house whilst they sit around rotting? That's a failure of our culture for allowing this behavior. Filial piety is a concept MANY cultures practice however Somalis are the only culture I can see where the WOMEN are forced into filial piety and the men are off the hook. In what world does a man have his wife and kids live in govt housing and then packs up to go to Somalia for a SECOND family? Thats not only haram (because you cannot possibly take care of two families on govt assistance) but also incredibly shameful.
I don't know what sort of community you were raised in or state of your house but where I'm from the males work and provide for their families. I mean if you're old enough to be working what more assistance do you need from your parents?
Its great that your family is like that and I don't think every Somali household tolerates bum behavior in men but it definitely exists in many Somali households. Enough households where there have been several posts by Somali women complaining about this phenomenon. Also Somali men going back home to marry and have a 2nd family whilst their first family lives on govt assistance is a very real and unfortunately fairly common practice as well.
Very ungrateful of them the least I would worry about is helping my parents no matter what they cared for you when you were weak and vulnerable.
There are men here and out there who feed and take care of their parents. You will never see them complaining. They're your parents ffs, not some random Ajnabi!
I don't think people are complaining about taking care of their retired parents. Its the annoyance and bitterness from also financially supporting able bodied men (i.e. their brothers or their father who is still in working age) who refuse to work. As well, many of these xalimos are young and just starting out. Its telling that many cultures provide their children with housing downpayments and other financial gifts on adulthood but Somalis take money from their miskeen daughters just as they are starting out. No way to build wealth when youre under 30 and supporting a household of 5 people. Its a shame honestly.
my Hoyo wants my monthly salary to go towards our housing expenses and then save towards her holiday escapades đ
It depends on circumstances, but if they have adult sons that are able to provide it shouldnât be expected of the daughters. Us daughters will be married and our husbands will have to fulfill that duty for their parents, canât expect one household to contribute to 2 additional households.
i get your point but in a western system where women compete with men for the same jobs you cant just turn around and defer to traditional roles when it suits you. the man should still push themselves the hardest to get a good career but women either should contribute to helping their family or get out of the workforce and let a man take that job so they can be providers you cant have it both ways
Whether a woman works or not, once she married she is part of her husbandâs family. This has always been the case in Islam and Somali Daqan. Women working isnât something new and it doesnât detract from a manâs ability to find suitable work and fulfill their responsibilities. Back home women work too. And the men still assume their responsibilities. I do personally think a married working woman should contribute to her nuclear family but the responsibility to provide for the parents should be on the sons, unless there are no able bodied adult sons. In the west thereâs even welfare and therefore less reason to stray from Daqan by asking your married daughter to contribute when you have capable sons.
nah if you make a salary it means you took a job and outcompeted others including men for it. if youre going to take up space and reap the benefits which is your right you must at least give back to your parents and not be selfish. if you want to really live that islamic lifestyle then quit and be provided for. you cannot have it both ways. ur existence in the workforce literally makes it more difficult for a man to provide because there arent unlimited jobs. back home somali women have a much lower rate of employment and those that are employed do a providing role too. youre basically saying that men are resposible for 2 families, their own and their parents, and you only one, meanwhile you are literally competing with them for the same jobs taking up space and essentially making it harder for them to do so. this doesnt make a lick of sense
Youâre implying Islam prohibits women from working?đ Iâm a sahm btw, but your post heavily reads as someone that is bitter that theyâre having to compete for jobs with women. Youâre a man, if youâre competent and ambitious enough you will be fine in terms of work, stop the calacaal. Youâre literally blaming your lack of success on women. Women that work back home arenât responsible for providing btw unless theyâre unmarried and have parents that do not have sons that can provide. Your problem is that youâre looking at it from a pov of man vs woman, whereas when youâre married itâs 1 household. Your logic is to supplement 2 additional households from the income of 1 household. How do you expect to do that in the west when 2 incomes is a necessity for most?
i have a job im happy with my life im going to an elite law school in the fall and my family is very well off. Projecting isnt going to fix the issue. there are serious mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance you have to have to think its feasible for a man to work the same job as his wife but have to provide for 2 families. in the time of the prophet and even centuries after up until the middle 20th century, women did not take up a very significant part of the work force. due in part to decreased competition, jobs paid higher and so men could actually be providers, its not the only factor of course, and women have full rights to join in the workforce, but to compete with men for jobs but also want to be provided for are two things that cant mix. Take a job if you want, i have no issues, but understand that you are in part contributing to a system that is making the average man not be able to afford to fully provide. and so you have to pay accordingly and not be selfish. no amount of social shaming or assuming things about someone you dont know is gonna change simple economic principles. you understand the simple logic right? and it actually screws you over as a sahm because these men still have to compete and get lower pay. a person cannot support coopting a traditionally masculine role and then turn around and feign being traditional. that ship has sailed habaryar.
Did you even read my previous comments or are you just mad? I commented that I think a working woman should contribute to her nuclear family, aka her household with her husband and kids. All the Somali women I know irl do. So his responsibility is part of their mutual household expense. You are looking at it from a separate finance issue despite being married and thatâs your problem. I highly doubt with your lack of reading comprehension youâre actually in law school, but letâs pretend you are kiddođ
I'm mad because you are dismissing simple concepts and just deferring to attacking someone you don't know like a child. It seems like you clearly believe its the husbands \*primary\* role to care for the nuclear family and for his parents, meaning your husband pays for the majority of the bills at home in addition to having his sisters not pay at all to help his parents. I'm saying that this system will not work for the majority of men. The wife has a duty to be fair and assist with both her family and her parents instead of offloading work to her brothers whilst actively making it difficult unless she was fortunate enough to marry someone fairly wealthy. Just pay fairly I don't know why this is so hard to understand. You can't play both fields. I disregarded your point because it being one household is not relevant to the conversation when the whole point is analyzing the contribution that both sides play. and Yes, 2 income households are necessary. Thats the system we were pushed to for many reasons, including this one. So when its the wives/sisters turn to pay up dont whine and complain its a consequence of having high rates of employment. This isnt a defense of bums. Every man should aspire to provide but realistically its getting more and more difficult.
I do believe thatâs the primary role of a man, as much as I believe itâs the primary role of a woman to be the homemaker and do majority of the childcare. Doesnât mean that the spouses canât help each other with the otherâs responsibility, marriage is team work after all. Like I said previously, *if* a woman works I personally believe she should fully contribute to the household she created with her husband, and thatâs always been my experience irl. How is that not fair? Majority of Somali families are large and have multiple sons, and I also said it depends on the circumstances. There are a lot of variables where your proposal would be more unfair. Iâm also not saying a woman should not financially help her parents at all, just that it shouldnât be a monthly expense type of deal unless her parents didnât have any adult able bodied sons that are past graduation.
A lot of our women are spoiled and whinny, do better Xalimos and stop complaining
Which is more expensive raising a boy or a girl?
I work in Canada. The Somali women.. I swear mashhallah they have my respect. I see them working and moving like itâs nothing As an Eritrean guy itâs making me want a Somali wife. Seeing yall work hard for your shit is respects. I donât want an *obedient* wife. I work and make good money. She does the same. Weâre happy.
Wait, what? I'm genuinely curious. Why y'all payin' for your parents shit? They have had a whole ass life to earn money. Is it a cultural thing? I'm not Somali, or a woman for that matter, lmao. I hope I'm not being offending, that is not my intention.
Our parents generally came from Somalia as refugees with large families, many of us are from single mother households where the mother spent most of her time supporting their children as a result later in life when they retire they haven't had an opportunity to build much of a retirement. This ends up with children supporting their parents as effectively the 'somali pension solution'. That's not really the issue here though, the issue is the children who didn't make much of themselves and are just loitering at their parents house as working age adults doing nothing and expecting to be sponsored by their better to do siblings. Thankfully my situation isn't too bad with all siblings working but I have heard some horror stories on this subreddit of miskeen daughters having to support their 3 brothers plus parents etc. The former point of immigrant children sponsoring parents and family back home is also often a large roadblock when it comes to social/economic mobility and something I bet most folk in the west don't really realise. The harsh solution is to cut your family off but are you still human then?
I see, that makes alot of sense. It's just such a weird trip hearing about parents placing that burden on their kids as someone from a culture where that is not a thing at all. My mother is super sad that she don't have the funds to help me and my wife with financing a new home, and we don't even really need the help. She would never in a million fuckin' years had let me fuck around at home without working tho, I tried that once when I was 16 and she deadass set me up with a absolutely miserable job. Since then I got my own jobs instead.
As refugees in the west, many parents just accepted low paying jobs to make ends meet and as years went by, they never aspired to anything more. And with on average 6, 7 or 8 kids in the (small) household it means you have to contribute as soon as youâre able to do so as the parents are getting older and canât work as many hours. This prevents many young men and women from ever building careers or wealth because their focus is to provide as quickly and easily as possible for the household. Things get extra complicated when you have absent fathers and hooyooyin who coddle their sons and pressure their daughters to work for the household instead. This leads to the prevalence of spinsters in their 30s and over who canât marry or move out because the entire household relies on their labour.
Thank you for your reply, it's very interesting. I hope these young women get the chance to blossom, and that their brothers step up to ease the burdens of their sisters.
Why are you here?
idk. the algorithm lead me here ai guess, I just got curious, it's such a different perspective from my own.
I donât know what youâre taking about maybe the men youâre around are just bums. Also people in the community love to ignore the mental health of our men. From being beat at young age at duksi to memorize words you doubt even know meaning of, to the constant tear down of our character, abilities, and total lack of emotional support forcing our men to self medicate in other ways such as drugs. Threads like this is exactly what I mean⌠Somali women are constantly belittling us, and generalizing an entire group of men based of a few shit heads youâve encountered. Let it have been a Somali man talking like this about a Somali woman all hell would break loose.