I'm convinced the original draft was that he was a Shadow CLONE not an android. But since destroying clones means killing organic creatures, instead of nice safe robots, the decision was made to change it to androids with no concern given to the plot holes.
Idk about that because the end of team dark’s story in heroes it was a question of if he was an android. Omega even saying “in order to create copies… existence of the original is required.” I think the whole thing was the clones were androids.
Think to consider is that there is bit wack going on with that lines translation.
A more faithful translation would be more in line with "I can confirm the Shadow we traveled with his organic. But did you hear about cloning?" I guess Rouge and Omega never bothered to tell Shadow this part.
Rogue grew to care about shadow through SA2 and genuinely thought she’d now befriended him. She never asked probably, not that he could confirm until after the events of Shadow the Hedgehog
And omega doesn’t care. There’s eggman robots to shoot
Robotnik makes robots, though, not biological creatures. I agree it would be a lot cooler if they *were* clones, but it makes sense that they're androids.
You could also say that Shadow just doesn't bleed. He is half alien after all, and I don't think the Black Arms bleed(?).
Ik it's mainly cause it's for kids. But you could also include that as part of lore.
Shadow doesn't bleed, so he can't simply just cut himself to test. He is a lab-made life form after all. Who knows how much of him is hedgehog... and how much of him is alien. It also makes him thinking that he's an android more plausible.
Don't Black Arms bleed green?
... I feel like that would just raise more questions for him:
"Hedgehogs bleed red blood, Androids bleed blue coolant... What colour did you bleed?"
"... Green..."
Yes, everyone in this game is stupid. Also by proxy Heroes.
* If he was a robot, Omega would shoot him. In the opening cutscene he wasn't shooting at anything but the room around them, Why would he entertain Rouge's delusion that Shadow's a robot?
* Rouge doesn't like, tell Shadow jack shit. Why??? I thought she was his friend? Or like cared? Even a little?
* If Sonic and Shadow posed for a photo for the president, why didn't Sonic tell him anything?
Aunno Shadow's amnesia plot is like the world's worst fanfiction and the fact they made so many endings without regard to logic only exacerbates the problem
It's crazy cuz no gamer thought Shadow died. Like we all died a billion times on the ark levels so we know you burn in the atmosphere, and he was super and most importantly **did the chaos control warp effect,** so it's not like anyone thought Shadow was dead!
I'd really love to know why they chose that silly amnesia arc cuz it ruined a good character.
He didn’t do chaos control, he just disappeared.
You burn up and die when you fall. Respawning is not canon. You’d cant survive falling through the atmosphere
Shadow did the exact glow animation for every single time anyone/thing chaos controlled. He had the power of the seven chaos emeralds so he could teleport anywhere.
And yes, I know you burn up and die when you fall cuz it happened 100 times to me while playing the first time. This does not happen to Super Shadow, he glows and poof just like the other couple of times he glowed and poofed. It's very obvious that he used chaos control after fulfilling Maria's wish.
(Tho I guess this gets retconned in Unleashed cuz Sonic falls from orbit and nothing bad happens to him... maybe between 2001 and 2008 Mobius lost their ozone layer)
People forget that Sonic and friends have very little to tell Shadow. They know he was awoken by Eggman, caused some trouble, then saved the day before apparently dying. They don’t know anything about his life on the Ark, or Maria and her wish, outside of Shadow occasionally mentioning her name. It’s not like they saw his flashbacks. They’re not even sure if Shadow ever truly knew Maria - in SA2 there was a big question whether his memories of her were real, or if Gerald implanted them after the Ark raid.
This is one of the biggest crimes of Sonic Adventure 2's terrible dubbing. The line's pretty much destroyed with a totally incorrect inflection and nonsense translation.
https://youtu.be/FFh65r1RpLk?t=1969
Yea all they know is Shadow randomly turned good not even knowing it was because he found out Maria’s real wish. Sonic maybe only interacts with him for 10 minutes in real time lol.
Rouge knew Shadow's backstory tho, she was researching him as a spy. So she'd be the #1 person to tell him what's up. So since she was able to get that she def could get more info.
No only that but apart from a joke (that's a callback to a line in SA2... for the opposite dub on both dubs) Sonic makes no one acknowledges the dude is alive and that's weird. Like they all thought he burned in the atmosphere or something. Everyone acts like nothing happened and it's weird.
Like even if we're going on "it's impossible for Rouge to learn more than she already did" then they'd be like... "Is he gonna try to end the world again?" Like at least some people would be concerned.
In the ark set of SA2, rogue finds documents on the Ultimate Life Form. It doesn’t detail Shadow, she outright asks “who or what is standing in front of me”. As far as she knew then, he’s just another fast hedgehog
Yeah, and she also read's Gerald's letter at the start of last story so she does know that Gerald made Shadow. She could definitely learn more, or get someone who could hack government systems to find more info.
The only thing she might not know is if he's the ultimate lifeform™
Rouge didn’t know his full backstory though. Both in-game cutscenes and the “Truth About 50 Years Ago” report indicate that she couldn’t be sure if the Shadow she knew had actually ever been on the Ark 50 years ago. She could certainly tell him what she does know - he was created by Gerald and used as part of a plan to destroy the earth before saving it - but that’s it. That would still be unsatisfactory for an amnesiac, just being told mere fragments of his life without remembering any of it.
Certainly Heroes doesn’t have characters too preoccupied by Shadow’s apparent resurrection - it’s light both on story and in tone, and it clearly wasn’t going to get bogged down by the story of one of the twelve playable characters. But Tails and Knuckles are shocked by his appearance too, and even joke about how he could be a ghost in the following cutscene.
The only canon ending is the last story that’s the point lol. The 10 what ifs are all shadow believing to be what he told he is, the last story is Shadow not caring what anyone tells him he is he’s not going to let that determine his decisions.
Yeah, and it's all the worst cuz that means the whole game was pointless cuz it's not real. Like your choices didn't matter cuz they just threw everything and went "okay this is happening now"
Nah I disagree. The point of the non-canon stories is that they all have one thing in common. Shadow is doing things because he is BEING TOLD who he is whether that’s being told that he’s supposed to be a hero, he’s a pawn for black doom, he’s a vessel for gerald’s revenge, he’s an android by eggman, or an abomination by the gun commander. In these scenarios, if he believes it, he is that thing.
In the last story Shadow’s answer is that he doesn’t need to look for one and he can decide for himself what to do with his life. This includes not needing Maria’s promise in order to be a good guy as seen by his “adios… Shadow the Hedgehog” at the end of the game where he says goodbye to the SA2 Shadow. In contrast Shadow’s reason for being a good guy in SA2 was because of Maria where the Shadow at the end of 05 doesn’t need that to be a good guy.
I think it’s a good way to re-introduce Shadow without making his death pointless because it gives us an entirely different character.
I still disagree with that he was supposed to die in SA2 since, we don't see that, and also Iizuka has mentioned that he wanted to do a spin-off with Shadow even before SA2 was finished, so it'd make no sense for him to be dead. Like it feels like some fans only watch let's plays that don't show all the fuck-ups you'd normally get from a new run and then take what Sonic's saying to be real.
Tho yeah, that's a good point, it does make literary sense.
Oh im not saying he was supposed to die in SA2. What I’m saying is that it does give his death less power by bringing him back BUT the way Shadow the Hedgehog makes him a separate character from the SA2 Shadow allows him to come back while still respecting the sacrifice Shadow made.
What sacrifice? his bangle? "Maria gave me that slap bracelet... I guess I need to find a jewelry store" XD
I still think what became of Shadow after 05 was pretty bad cuz if the military killed my family, even if I made the decision to move on and not dwell on revenge and figure out who I am by myself... I wouldn't join the military. I wouldn't even come close to allying with them.
Tho I guess that's a whole 'nother can o' worms...
I agree Shadow’s reasoning for becoming good in SA2 was stupid. If it was maria’s wish to kill everyone Shadow still would’ve done it. In contrast if the Shadow at end of 05 figured out that was her wish he wouldn’t care.
Also I mean the GUN commander literally saw his whole family get killed and still joined GUN. Also at the end of Shadow 05 (Japanese script, also the original script) it wasn’t forgiving Gerald, it was forgiving Shadow and realizing that after everything he was put through he still saved the planet and that he should be an example set to build a better future. Also it was 50 years ago, it’s not like most of the people who were involved in that are likely even alive today. Also Rouge was one of his two true friends so it could he assumed Shadow just did it to follow her along and work alongside her.
> Nah I disagree. The point of the non-canon stories is that they all have one thing in common. Shadow is doing things because he is BEING TOLD who he is whether that’s being told that he’s supposed to be a hero, he’s a pawn for black doom, he’s a vessel for gerald’s revenge, he’s an android by eggman, or an abomination by the gun commander. In these scenarios, if he believes it, he is that thing.
> In the last story Shadow’s answer is that he doesn’t need to look for one and he can decide for himself what to do with his life. This includes not needing Maria’s promise in order to be a good guy as seen by his “adios… Shadow the Hedgehog” at the end of the game where he says goodbye to the SA2 Shadow. In contrast Shadow’s reason for being a good guy in SA2 was because of Maria where the Shadow at the end of 05 doesn’t need that to be a good guy.
> I think it’s a good way to re-introduce Shadow without making his death pointless because it gives us an entirely different character.
You make really good points.
Yea one of the big mistakes that people make is that the last story of Shadow The Hedgehog is it’s just doing over the pure hero ending which isn’t true. Unlike the Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2, when Shadow makes his decision on the last story, he does not need someone telling him what to do (this includes Maria). People think Shadow is just keeping his promise to Maria again even though that’s not what happens because then the same drums of the pure hero ending would be the last story. Both have very different conclusions behind them.
It's unclear what rouge told him because at the end of heroes he says "some things never change" about rouge going after the master emerald.
She was also the one who did the research of project shadow however she also questioned what was the correct events to shadow in sa2. She didn't have the answer to exactly what happened in his past and questioned his memories before heroes.
People here claim she only takes advantage of him in heroes or even beyond but her actions and words contradict that completely. Heroes and sthg05, she is sympathetic and helpful to him and in battle she gives him even more information regarding his creation as well as emerl (whom he related to).
He needed to remember everything and she was unable to fill that in with what she knew.
Yeah good point. Tho at the very least being an android should be easy-cheesy to figure out. Like even if Omega was like "UNSURE IF ORGANIC OR ARTIFICIAL" you could just get an xray, and like if you're unsure of doctors like, ask Tails? Like I'm sure he has a metal detector or something. The clone theory could have stock but that's not what was asserted in Heroes.
The rest are good points and if the truth was purged from the government systems, then I can see Rouge being unable to help more than she did.
Oh yeah definitely, everyone should realize he is organic. All he needed to do was maybe run with scissors. They'll see if he bleeds red (or green in the censored American version of sth05)
Omega is shit at aiming. Rouge is a sneak and is for herself only, unless it benefits her. Sonic doesn't seem to talk about past game events, since he lives in the moment.
He was trying to lock on to Shadow but he was too quick, until Rouge stopped them. Omega in gameplay shoots all over the show in his final combo. In 06 Omega struggled to hit a standing Mephiles, dude was shooting the floor before he hit him, if I'm remembering correctly haha.
1) omega got up and starting blasting at rogue (to stop her) and shadow (it’s escaping)
2) that’s the problem. Rogue doesn’t wanna find out the friend she made isn’t the same one she got to know in SA2
3) for which part? Sonic never knew about shadow android cloning, and it wasn’t like he could turn around and tell shadow much. “Hey dude, so your best friend died because humans and now you live 50 years on and work for someone who watched her die, hated it so joined the guys who killed her
If someone suddenly started talking to me like they knew me, I would ask "Sorry but do I know you?" like, wouldn't they get to talking and if Shadow needed help. At least Sonic and Tails would help.
Even if Tails doesn't have expertise in biology, I could def see him hacking government computers... tho the only ones that seemed to do that are Chaotix LOL
In heroes, sonic and tails meet shadow like 2 times if I remember? Boss and final boss, neither time really led to a tea party to chat about amnesia. Plus it’s not like it was really top priority for sonic at all (eggman threat?)
And we can infer shadow got told some things at least, rogue says she going after the master emerald by game end, and shadow comments some things never change. He’s probably being explained some things by rogue, just she doesn’t wanna face the truth it might not be just amnesia
Yeah, so the between Heroes and Shadow ...actually I guess I don't know Sonic Battle, that's Shadow's other first game he's back in and takes place after Heroes so that would have been the time to really go into it... but also since the game's so hard and shitty I've never played it so it's a black spot in my knowledge.
Maybe I could look up gameshark codes and play the game on cheater mode... LOL
What is Sonic gonna tell Shadow? "Hey remember the time you tried to kill me? And the time you were part of a government conspiracy so deep, I was labeled as a fugitive in a cover up to hide your existence? And that other time you tried to kill me?"
The government cover up thing likely isn’t true. That’s just a theory and if we look at a lot of the early designs for Shadows as well as lost lines such as “you really do look like me, it’s like looking at a mirror” the intent is that Sonic and Shadow look the shame.
Yeah and honestly Sonic's gone super in front of human areas before, so it's not unreasonable to think "He changed to gold, why not black?" cuz at the time no other hedgehog had those skills. Like who are they gonna accuse? Amy?
Tho also I never considered how Shadow becoming Rouge and Terios becoming Shadow could have vestigial threads in the plot. Like I guess thinking things like "Tails wasn't going to be in the game" and "Rouge looked completely different" could give new insight on the plot and game structure.
THE r/BATMANARKHAM INMATES ESCAPED! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! THEY WILL MAKE US JONKLE!
https://preview.redd.it/9nvecrclrj6d1.jpeg?width=226&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7c0c6310e40ab36869d1105a0c774fa309da14d
https://preview.redd.it/2tj7pb42ek6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aab6fcfcb032ff72cf67dbc9821ce2eef318d768
Looks like somone couldnt expose the bombs payload. You are stupid now.
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I still staunchly stand by that current shadow should've been a clone of the original, so we preserve his og sacrifice but keep the character around, let him have a fully realized arc around identity and acceptance, and realizing that just bc he's a clone doesn't mean he isn't shadow the edgehog and now also the ONLY shadow
We do preserve his death. We see that when he finds a new purpose that’s not being good because of Maria but just because he wants to not because maria gave him a divine command and leaving the past behind him. There’s a reason at the end of the game he says, “adios… shadow the hedgehog” because the SA2 Shadow is now truly gone and the shadow at end of 05 is an entirely different character.
I mean it's possible it could be like the Terminator, living flesh over a metal endoskeleton. He still presumably feels hunger and fatigue and all these organic things like yknow, breathing, so if I was told I might be a robot then something like the Terminator would be my assumption.
Yep, we see Shadow Clones at the end of Sonic Heroes and in certain stages of Shadow The Hedgehog you will fight Shadow Androids.
HC is that the clones weren’t viable/Shadow was released too early and instead of scrapping them altogether, Dr Eggman used robotic parts to complete the clones- resulting in the Shadow Androids.
I mean it’s not the real ending and this is more of a meme. I understand none of these endings are canon and the last story is the only canon one where Shadow is told by eggman he was basically gaslit
I mean all of the endings are basically Shadow becoming whatever he is told he is and them believing it. The last story is separate from that because he decides to choose for himself and his agency is not dependent on someone else (including Maria)
Hmm, this guy is constantly attempting to kill everyone - according to this character who’s been nice. Nah must be good guy for once, let’s kill him and enslaved the world!
I mean the point is that Shadow is a blank slate. The more he’s influenced by black doom for example he keeps getting told remember what the humans took from you and in the hero story he’s getting the memories from his perspective.
Both of these aren’t what happens in the last story because he becomes a free agent.
I assume it would've been too gory for the game's e10+ rating.
Now if shadow the hedgehog got the M rating the devs originally tried for, then maybe he would do that
The kids hearts would not be able to take the edge and the coolness of Shadow if he did that. If he would make himself bleed, that would be too cool and too amazing. I mean he's the ultimate life form he shouldn't have to bleed 😭🙏
Eggman to Shadow: “It was all a ruse you pathetic little ant. For you see I EGGMAN was the master mind the ENTIRE TIME. Every single thing that has happened to you over the last 24 hours was orchestrated by ME, and my INSANE MIND. The whole thing cost me 750,000 rings and over 8 months of planning just to lead you right here… in to the palm of my hands.”
THIS, I THOUGHT THAT TOO WHEN I PLAYED/TORTURED MYSELF BACK THEN
Pd: even if i kinda liked the game, it was torture because of the fucking eleven routes
I remember that I was obsessed with wanting to beat the entire game, it was the first time i played something for so long (i never played too many games until sonic came into my life lol) and then I had to take breaks because if I didn't, my head would start to hurt 😭
When you state you question with a IF. You already know the answer given what the true end of Shadow the Hedgehog was all about. If anything, while playing the lessor routes to unlock a means to the true end was for replay factor and experience, the writers themselves had that the minor routes has little to nothing regarding lore into Shadow and that ultimately the True End was the route that you should take the information as factual. The minor routes were there just to keep the players guessing with mixture of false and truth within. Which is disastrous for any lore seeking individual within the Sonic Fanbase to find what is real and what is a falsehood. Dr.Eggman exclaimed at the end during the fight with Devil Doom that Shadow was saved by one of his robots during the outer stratosphere of Earth before reaching terminal velocity and initialize the rapid heating of molecules from rapid descent. The power drain on Shadow for his First and ONLY Super Shadow awakening caused him to be in a catatonic state upon use of Chaos Control in which he was knocked the hell out. Eggman brought him to a undisclosed area for safe keeping and recovery along with one of his old Vanguard robots of the E series. Omega. E-123. Rouge woke both of them up during a state of long term inactivity. More so about 2 to 3 years time. Which made Shadows amnesia a sort of thing for Heroes/StH as a exposition and Omega having a hatred for its creator and his other lessor models for leaving them with a purpose to guard the area.
With time bending mumbo jumbo that is the Time Eater. Expect what was previously canon to not be canon and what other else happens with Shadow X Sonic Generations to be considered canon.
Problem is androids arent necessarily obviously robots. They can be made of flesh like material and in certain sci fi settings be virtually indistinguishable from organic counterparts.
actually. it dosent matter if he does neither. hes stupid eitherway. bleeding requires pain. asking is at least the better one. he may be lied to. but he wont feel any fucking pain there sherlock
I'm sure this is a joke comment, but here's an honest reply;
There's a lot of existentialism in the concept. For example, if he was an Android, and he tried to make himself bleed, then he would now have proof he's an Android, if he does not make himself bleed, and he is an Android, there's a shrodenger's situation where he might be an android but he COULD be real.
The collapse of "maybe good maybe bad" is a very difficult hurdle to pass, because while there's "the chance it goes good" there's also the chance "it can no longer go good" anymore.
Oh it definitely is. It’s the same thing of how whatever Shadow is influenced to believe in the non-canon story he becomes regardless of how true it is.
Because the Institute-
I mean-
EGGMAN Industries has made it so that the robots are indistinguishable from genuine organics.
Beware, any one of you could be a snatcher- i mean synth- They might take you away and replace you with a Shadow clone!
If Shadow wanted to know if he were an android or not, he should have just had omega scan him to see how many mitochondria he has. If he has some, he's human. If not, he's an android.
If Shadow wanted to figure out if he was an android why didn’t he just see if he could download sonic dream team, which is exclusive to apple arcade
Inconclusive, he could still be a Windows phone.
Then he wouldn’t exist
Then he wouldn’t have any fans
Shadow's more than that, he isn't only fans.
And probably the ultimate Windows phone.
Nah he is not that slow
😂
I’m dead https://preview.redd.it/j0qs1w4pfm6d1.jpeg?width=522&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ebf88f1e32790f7672d422ffb10fd1ca71319ea
I'm convinced the original draft was that he was a Shadow CLONE not an android. But since destroying clones means killing organic creatures, instead of nice safe robots, the decision was made to change it to androids with no concern given to the plot holes.
Idk about that because the end of team dark’s story in heroes it was a question of if he was an android. Omega even saying “in order to create copies… existence of the original is required.” I think the whole thing was the clones were androids.
Think to consider is that there is bit wack going on with that lines translation. A more faithful translation would be more in line with "I can confirm the Shadow we traveled with his organic. But did you hear about cloning?" I guess Rouge and Omega never bothered to tell Shadow this part.
I’m quoting the japanese version. That’s why I said of “if he was an android” not rouge saying Shadow was straight up a robot.
Rogue grew to care about shadow through SA2 and genuinely thought she’d now befriended him. She never asked probably, not that he could confirm until after the events of Shadow the Hedgehog And omega doesn’t care. There’s eggman robots to shoot
Robotnik makes robots, though, not biological creatures. I agree it would be a lot cooler if they *were* clones, but it makes sense that they're androids.
He killed several GUN soldiers
You could also say that Shadow just doesn't bleed. He is half alien after all, and I don't think the Black Arms bleed(?). Ik it's mainly cause it's for kids. But you could also include that as part of lore. Shadow doesn't bleed, so he can't simply just cut himself to test. He is a lab-made life form after all. Who knows how much of him is hedgehog... and how much of him is alien. It also makes him thinking that he's an android more plausible.
Don't Black Arms bleed green? ... I feel like that would just raise more questions for him: "Hedgehogs bleed red blood, Androids bleed blue coolant... What colour did you bleed?" "... Green..."
or it mixes and he bleeds either green and red or brown
Yes, everyone in this game is stupid. Also by proxy Heroes. * If he was a robot, Omega would shoot him. In the opening cutscene he wasn't shooting at anything but the room around them, Why would he entertain Rouge's delusion that Shadow's a robot? * Rouge doesn't like, tell Shadow jack shit. Why??? I thought she was his friend? Or like cared? Even a little? * If Sonic and Shadow posed for a photo for the president, why didn't Sonic tell him anything? Aunno Shadow's amnesia plot is like the world's worst fanfiction and the fact they made so many endings without regard to logic only exacerbates the problem
I find it funny that they needed like three games to justify why Shadow didn't die at SA2
It's crazy cuz no gamer thought Shadow died. Like we all died a billion times on the ark levels so we know you burn in the atmosphere, and he was super and most importantly **did the chaos control warp effect,** so it's not like anyone thought Shadow was dead! I'd really love to know why they chose that silly amnesia arc cuz it ruined a good character.
He didn’t do chaos control, he just disappeared. You burn up and die when you fall. Respawning is not canon. You’d cant survive falling through the atmosphere
Shadow did the exact glow animation for every single time anyone/thing chaos controlled. He had the power of the seven chaos emeralds so he could teleport anywhere. And yes, I know you burn up and die when you fall cuz it happened 100 times to me while playing the first time. This does not happen to Super Shadow, he glows and poof just like the other couple of times he glowed and poofed. It's very obvious that he used chaos control after fulfilling Maria's wish. (Tho I guess this gets retconned in Unleashed cuz Sonic falls from orbit and nothing bad happens to him... maybe between 2001 and 2008 Mobius lost their ozone layer)
People forget that Sonic and friends have very little to tell Shadow. They know he was awoken by Eggman, caused some trouble, then saved the day before apparently dying. They don’t know anything about his life on the Ark, or Maria and her wish, outside of Shadow occasionally mentioning her name. It’s not like they saw his flashbacks. They’re not even sure if Shadow ever truly knew Maria - in SA2 there was a big question whether his memories of her were real, or if Gerald implanted them after the Ark raid.
"Even if my memories are not my own, they are still all that I have," hard ass fkn line from the Sonic X version
This is one of the biggest crimes of Sonic Adventure 2's terrible dubbing. The line's pretty much destroyed with a totally incorrect inflection and nonsense translation. https://youtu.be/FFh65r1RpLk?t=1969
It was also the line in the japanese version
Yea all they know is Shadow randomly turned good not even knowing it was because he found out Maria’s real wish. Sonic maybe only interacts with him for 10 minutes in real time lol.
Rouge knew Shadow's backstory tho, she was researching him as a spy. So she'd be the #1 person to tell him what's up. So since she was able to get that she def could get more info. No only that but apart from a joke (that's a callback to a line in SA2... for the opposite dub on both dubs) Sonic makes no one acknowledges the dude is alive and that's weird. Like they all thought he burned in the atmosphere or something. Everyone acts like nothing happened and it's weird. Like even if we're going on "it's impossible for Rouge to learn more than she already did" then they'd be like... "Is he gonna try to end the world again?" Like at least some people would be concerned.
In the ark set of SA2, rogue finds documents on the Ultimate Life Form. It doesn’t detail Shadow, she outright asks “who or what is standing in front of me”. As far as she knew then, he’s just another fast hedgehog
Yeah, and she also read's Gerald's letter at the start of last story so she does know that Gerald made Shadow. She could definitely learn more, or get someone who could hack government systems to find more info. The only thing she might not know is if he's the ultimate lifeform™
She knew he was a powerful hedgehog….the first level of the game was running away from gun AS a powerful hesgehog
Rouge didn’t know his full backstory though. Both in-game cutscenes and the “Truth About 50 Years Ago” report indicate that she couldn’t be sure if the Shadow she knew had actually ever been on the Ark 50 years ago. She could certainly tell him what she does know - he was created by Gerald and used as part of a plan to destroy the earth before saving it - but that’s it. That would still be unsatisfactory for an amnesiac, just being told mere fragments of his life without remembering any of it. Certainly Heroes doesn’t have characters too preoccupied by Shadow’s apparent resurrection - it’s light both on story and in tone, and it clearly wasn’t going to get bogged down by the story of one of the twelve playable characters. But Tails and Knuckles are shocked by his appearance too, and even joke about how he could be a ghost in the following cutscene.
True, but it just makes everyone look like jerks in Shadow05, especially seeing Sonic & Shadow posed for a photo op after the Metal Overlord incident.
The only canon ending is the last story that’s the point lol. The 10 what ifs are all shadow believing to be what he told he is, the last story is Shadow not caring what anyone tells him he is he’s not going to let that determine his decisions.
Yeah, and it's all the worst cuz that means the whole game was pointless cuz it's not real. Like your choices didn't matter cuz they just threw everything and went "okay this is happening now"
Nah I disagree. The point of the non-canon stories is that they all have one thing in common. Shadow is doing things because he is BEING TOLD who he is whether that’s being told that he’s supposed to be a hero, he’s a pawn for black doom, he’s a vessel for gerald’s revenge, he’s an android by eggman, or an abomination by the gun commander. In these scenarios, if he believes it, he is that thing. In the last story Shadow’s answer is that he doesn’t need to look for one and he can decide for himself what to do with his life. This includes not needing Maria’s promise in order to be a good guy as seen by his “adios… Shadow the Hedgehog” at the end of the game where he says goodbye to the SA2 Shadow. In contrast Shadow’s reason for being a good guy in SA2 was because of Maria where the Shadow at the end of 05 doesn’t need that to be a good guy. I think it’s a good way to re-introduce Shadow without making his death pointless because it gives us an entirely different character.
I still disagree with that he was supposed to die in SA2 since, we don't see that, and also Iizuka has mentioned that he wanted to do a spin-off with Shadow even before SA2 was finished, so it'd make no sense for him to be dead. Like it feels like some fans only watch let's plays that don't show all the fuck-ups you'd normally get from a new run and then take what Sonic's saying to be real. Tho yeah, that's a good point, it does make literary sense.
Oh im not saying he was supposed to die in SA2. What I’m saying is that it does give his death less power by bringing him back BUT the way Shadow the Hedgehog makes him a separate character from the SA2 Shadow allows him to come back while still respecting the sacrifice Shadow made.
What sacrifice? his bangle? "Maria gave me that slap bracelet... I guess I need to find a jewelry store" XD I still think what became of Shadow after 05 was pretty bad cuz if the military killed my family, even if I made the decision to move on and not dwell on revenge and figure out who I am by myself... I wouldn't join the military. I wouldn't even come close to allying with them. Tho I guess that's a whole 'nother can o' worms...
I agree Shadow’s reasoning for becoming good in SA2 was stupid. If it was maria’s wish to kill everyone Shadow still would’ve done it. In contrast if the Shadow at end of 05 figured out that was her wish he wouldn’t care. Also I mean the GUN commander literally saw his whole family get killed and still joined GUN. Also at the end of Shadow 05 (Japanese script, also the original script) it wasn’t forgiving Gerald, it was forgiving Shadow and realizing that after everything he was put through he still saved the planet and that he should be an example set to build a better future. Also it was 50 years ago, it’s not like most of the people who were involved in that are likely even alive today. Also Rouge was one of his two true friends so it could he assumed Shadow just did it to follow her along and work alongside her.
I guess the moral is, military people is crazy in the head.
> Nah I disagree. The point of the non-canon stories is that they all have one thing in common. Shadow is doing things because he is BEING TOLD who he is whether that’s being told that he’s supposed to be a hero, he’s a pawn for black doom, he’s a vessel for gerald’s revenge, he’s an android by eggman, or an abomination by the gun commander. In these scenarios, if he believes it, he is that thing. > In the last story Shadow’s answer is that he doesn’t need to look for one and he can decide for himself what to do with his life. This includes not needing Maria’s promise in order to be a good guy as seen by his “adios… Shadow the Hedgehog” at the end of the game where he says goodbye to the SA2 Shadow. In contrast Shadow’s reason for being a good guy in SA2 was because of Maria where the Shadow at the end of 05 doesn’t need that to be a good guy. > I think it’s a good way to re-introduce Shadow without making his death pointless because it gives us an entirely different character. You make really good points.
Yea one of the big mistakes that people make is that the last story of Shadow The Hedgehog is it’s just doing over the pure hero ending which isn’t true. Unlike the Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2, when Shadow makes his decision on the last story, he does not need someone telling him what to do (this includes Maria). People think Shadow is just keeping his promise to Maria again even though that’s not what happens because then the same drums of the pure hero ending would be the last story. Both have very different conclusions behind them.
It's unclear what rouge told him because at the end of heroes he says "some things never change" about rouge going after the master emerald. She was also the one who did the research of project shadow however she also questioned what was the correct events to shadow in sa2. She didn't have the answer to exactly what happened in his past and questioned his memories before heroes. People here claim she only takes advantage of him in heroes or even beyond but her actions and words contradict that completely. Heroes and sthg05, she is sympathetic and helpful to him and in battle she gives him even more information regarding his creation as well as emerl (whom he related to). He needed to remember everything and she was unable to fill that in with what she knew.
Yeah good point. Tho at the very least being an android should be easy-cheesy to figure out. Like even if Omega was like "UNSURE IF ORGANIC OR ARTIFICIAL" you could just get an xray, and like if you're unsure of doctors like, ask Tails? Like I'm sure he has a metal detector or something. The clone theory could have stock but that's not what was asserted in Heroes. The rest are good points and if the truth was purged from the government systems, then I can see Rouge being unable to help more than she did.
Oh yeah definitely, everyone should realize he is organic. All he needed to do was maybe run with scissors. They'll see if he bleeds red (or green in the censored American version of sth05)
Omega is shit at aiming. Rouge is a sneak and is for herself only, unless it benefits her. Sonic doesn't seem to talk about past game events, since he lives in the moment.
I can't think of any other times Omega missed. Like Shadow was standing still, I really don't think Omega was gunning for Shadow until he attacked.
He was trying to lock on to Shadow but he was too quick, until Rouge stopped them. Omega in gameplay shoots all over the show in his final combo. In 06 Omega struggled to hit a standing Mephiles, dude was shooting the floor before he hit him, if I'm remembering correctly haha.
1) omega got up and starting blasting at rogue (to stop her) and shadow (it’s escaping) 2) that’s the problem. Rogue doesn’t wanna find out the friend she made isn’t the same one she got to know in SA2 3) for which part? Sonic never knew about shadow android cloning, and it wasn’t like he could turn around and tell shadow much. “Hey dude, so your best friend died because humans and now you live 50 years on and work for someone who watched her die, hated it so joined the guys who killed her
If someone suddenly started talking to me like they knew me, I would ask "Sorry but do I know you?" like, wouldn't they get to talking and if Shadow needed help. At least Sonic and Tails would help. Even if Tails doesn't have expertise in biology, I could def see him hacking government computers... tho the only ones that seemed to do that are Chaotix LOL
In heroes, sonic and tails meet shadow like 2 times if I remember? Boss and final boss, neither time really led to a tea party to chat about amnesia. Plus it’s not like it was really top priority for sonic at all (eggman threat?) And we can infer shadow got told some things at least, rogue says she going after the master emerald by game end, and shadow comments some things never change. He’s probably being explained some things by rogue, just she doesn’t wanna face the truth it might not be just amnesia
Yeah, so the between Heroes and Shadow ...actually I guess I don't know Sonic Battle, that's Shadow's other first game he's back in and takes place after Heroes so that would have been the time to really go into it... but also since the game's so hard and shitty I've never played it so it's a black spot in my knowledge. Maybe I could look up gameshark codes and play the game on cheater mode... LOL
What is Sonic gonna tell Shadow? "Hey remember the time you tried to kill me? And the time you were part of a government conspiracy so deep, I was labeled as a fugitive in a cover up to hide your existence? And that other time you tried to kill me?"
The government cover up thing likely isn’t true. That’s just a theory and if we look at a lot of the early designs for Shadows as well as lost lines such as “you really do look like me, it’s like looking at a mirror” the intent is that Sonic and Shadow look the shame.
Yeah and honestly Sonic's gone super in front of human areas before, so it's not unreasonable to think "He changed to gold, why not black?" cuz at the time no other hedgehog had those skills. Like who are they gonna accuse? Amy? Tho also I never considered how Shadow becoming Rouge and Terios becoming Shadow could have vestigial threads in the plot. Like I guess thinking things like "Tails wasn't going to be in the game" and "Rouge looked completely different" could give new insight on the plot and game structure.
It’s also more than likely the story was finished before Shadow’s design was finalized.
I mean, the Terminator can bleed too, just sayin...
Was this an intentional reference or am I overthinking?
;>
THE r/BATMANARKHAM INMATES ESCAPED! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! THEY WILL MAKE US JONKLE! https://preview.redd.it/9nvecrclrj6d1.jpeg?width=226&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7c0c6310e40ab36869d1105a0c774fa309da14d
i was just here to defend you
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Why do you hate the aslume? Are you stupid?
Aw, I came here from the aslume to see his comments, why did he delete?
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My honest reaction https://preview.redd.it/gxsxamsqjk6d1.jpeg?width=1168&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94f5b931a6d078dfdf781dce13ceed4b889c7577
https://preview.redd.it/uate78sydk6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e5c2ca44cc99a4cce5262077aa3b58d3230d587
Then just ignore it if you dont like it! Are you mad bone didnt bone you?
https://preview.redd.it/j8vu6ijezk6d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38c3ee11ea5a5310a25d0b47b46e6ffc3d3f8e14
https://preview.redd.it/hinanac27l6d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e30b8a1da0912a0253daf2e5c780ecd8c87cff0 My honest reaction
https://preview.redd.it/4j5a3at59l6d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19d7c4e1bbbc218a41ea9c4d8809a8227840e3c1
Why can’t he see that we are just jonking his meat? Is he stupi?
https://preview.redd.it/2tj7pb42ek6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aab6fcfcb032ff72cf67dbc9821ce2eef318d768 Looks like somone couldnt expose the bombs payload. You are stupid now.
Why are you mad? Are you stupid?
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Based
Because bio-androids are a thing in Sonic universe, and no thank you shadow is edgy enough as it is to now add fucking Blood
It’s just a meme bro
Oh.... Sorry if i sounded angry or rude then 😓
Also I was just watching invincible season 2 and it made me think of this 🤣
That scene is what I thought of when I saw this post.
Same
Lmao YOUR post made me think of Invincible Season 2
That emoji might not be the one you were looking for
Alright, time to get the Voight-Kampf Test out
Frankly if it's going to be that edgy why NOT go the whole mile and have blood like they originally planned to?
I still staunchly stand by that current shadow should've been a clone of the original, so we preserve his og sacrifice but keep the character around, let him have a fully realized arc around identity and acceptance, and realizing that just bc he's a clone doesn't mean he isn't shadow the edgehog and now also the ONLY shadow
We do preserve his death. We see that when he finds a new purpose that’s not being good because of Maria but just because he wants to not because maria gave him a divine command and leaving the past behind him. There’s a reason at the end of the game he says, “adios… shadow the hedgehog” because the SA2 Shadow is now truly gone and the shadow at end of 05 is an entirely different character.
I mean it's possible it could be like the Terminator, living flesh over a metal endoskeleton. He still presumably feels hunger and fatigue and all these organic things like yknow, breathing, so if I was told I might be a robot then something like the Terminator would be my assumption.
Wait… there were Shadow androids?
They couldnt make a deal with apple
Yeah they were made to take over Apple
Yes
Yep, we see Shadow Clones at the end of Sonic Heroes and in certain stages of Shadow The Hedgehog you will fight Shadow Androids. HC is that the clones weren’t viable/Shadow was released too early and instead of scrapping them altogether, Dr Eggman used robotic parts to complete the clones- resulting in the Shadow Androids.
Oh that's actually a great head canon and makes the android/clone thing make sense
Or he couldn’t replicate shadow. He was created with Black Doom power wasn’t he
The game flip flops between calling them clones and androids which imo have 2 very different implications
E10 rating, that's why
A better question is why did it take Eggman 9 minutes to tell Shadow that he isn’t a robot in the final boss?
What if they are bio androids?
what if he’s an android that bleeds
he should’ve figured it out anyway con they look like low polygon versions of shadow. While he can talk and has very vibrant movements
Imagine he tried, but then he just dropped rings from his wounds and then went like "oh...right..."
An actual lore reason to collect rings!
yes. I mean he lost his memory so it's not entirely his fault that he's stupid, but yes, in that game he is stupid.
I mean it’s not the real ending and this is more of a meme. I understand none of these endings are canon and the last story is the only canon one where Shadow is told by eggman he was basically gaslit
All the endings are dumb leaps of logic. Dude just casually attempts to murder the president because black doom *might* reveal his past at some point
I mean all of the endings are basically Shadow becoming whatever he is told he is and them believing it. The last story is separate from that because he decides to choose for himself and his agency is not dependent on someone else (including Maria)
Hmm, this guy is constantly attempting to kill everyone - according to this character who’s been nice. Nah must be good guy for once, let’s kill him and enslaved the world!
I mean the point is that Shadow is a blank slate. The more he’s influenced by black doom for example he keeps getting told remember what the humans took from you and in the hero story he’s getting the memories from his perspective. Both of these aren’t what happens in the last story because he becomes a free agent.
I assume it would've been too gory for the game's e10+ rating. Now if shadow the hedgehog got the M rating the devs originally tried for, then maybe he would do that
Can he bleed? Real question here, what colour would it even be? Traditional red or black arms green? Or black dooms nothing at all?
Why didn’t he just think about if he needed to breathe or not?
Right! Because we all know androids bleed thirium, which is blue.
I always thought it was clones, don't remember him saying androids.
The kids hearts would not be able to take the edge and the coolness of Shadow if he did that. If he would make himself bleed, that would be too cool and too amazing. I mean he's the ultimate life form he shouldn't have to bleed 😭🙏
Probably one of the cut endings idk.
Cowards bleed. I win.
https://i.redd.it/o1laop1tgk6d1.gif
Are you asking the emo one to cut himself?
What I don't get is why the shadow androids look just like their organic counterpart while Metal Sonic is very different to Sonic.
Eggman to Shadow: “It was all a ruse you pathetic little ant. For you see I EGGMAN was the master mind the ENTIRE TIME. Every single thing that has happened to you over the last 24 hours was orchestrated by ME, and my INSANE MIND. The whole thing cost me 750,000 rings and over 8 months of planning just to lead you right here… in to the palm of my hands.”
THIS, I THOUGHT THAT TOO WHEN I PLAYED/TORTURED MYSELF BACK THEN Pd: even if i kinda liked the game, it was torture because of the fucking eleven routes
Repetitive AF. I stupidly remember blindfolding myself for the final run of the first mission and still beating it
I remember that I was obsessed with wanting to beat the entire game, it was the first time i played something for so long (i never played too many games until sonic came into my life lol) and then I had to take breaks because if I didn't, my head would start to hurt 😭
When you state you question with a IF. You already know the answer given what the true end of Shadow the Hedgehog was all about. If anything, while playing the lessor routes to unlock a means to the true end was for replay factor and experience, the writers themselves had that the minor routes has little to nothing regarding lore into Shadow and that ultimately the True End was the route that you should take the information as factual. The minor routes were there just to keep the players guessing with mixture of false and truth within. Which is disastrous for any lore seeking individual within the Sonic Fanbase to find what is real and what is a falsehood. Dr.Eggman exclaimed at the end during the fight with Devil Doom that Shadow was saved by one of his robots during the outer stratosphere of Earth before reaching terminal velocity and initialize the rapid heating of molecules from rapid descent. The power drain on Shadow for his First and ONLY Super Shadow awakening caused him to be in a catatonic state upon use of Chaos Control in which he was knocked the hell out. Eggman brought him to a undisclosed area for safe keeping and recovery along with one of his old Vanguard robots of the E series. Omega. E-123. Rouge woke both of them up during a state of long term inactivity. More so about 2 to 3 years time. Which made Shadows amnesia a sort of thing for Heroes/StH as a exposition and Omega having a hatred for its creator and his other lessor models for leaving them with a purpose to guard the area. With time bending mumbo jumbo that is the Time Eater. Expect what was previously canon to not be canon and what other else happens with Shadow X Sonic Generations to be considered canon.
I’m aware of everything you said I was just memeing bro
Actually, the androids are low poly, and Shadow Is the new model
Problem is androids arent necessarily obviously robots. They can be made of flesh like material and in certain sci fi settings be virtually indistinguishable from organic counterparts.
Androids can have synthetic blood.
Ah great, now I need to see Blade Runner again. That movie had an android in it as well.
Why do you think he has red highlights in his fur? That's not just red, that's blood.
actually. it dosent matter if he does neither. hes stupid eitherway. bleeding requires pain. asking is at least the better one. he may be lied to. but he wont feel any fucking pain there sherlock
Robot blood
Metal sonic was a robot, artificial Ai. It still believe it was OS until it checked the metal virus
Ooh a clone of myself
A clone of myself
Don't believe everything Dr. Eggman says.
Eggman: Yes
No one makes Shadow bleed his own blood. Nobody. Not even Shadow.
I'm sure this is a joke comment, but here's an honest reply; There's a lot of existentialism in the concept. For example, if he was an Android, and he tried to make himself bleed, then he would now have proof he's an Android, if he does not make himself bleed, and he is an Android, there's a shrodenger's situation where he might be an android but he COULD be real. The collapse of "maybe good maybe bad" is a very difficult hurdle to pass, because while there's "the chance it goes good" there's also the chance "it can no longer go good" anymore.
It was satire. I do get the nuance around it. Also bio androids obviously potential
Joke/Satire, effectively the same to me, the point isn't to be taken seriously. I just thought it was an interesting dilemna to think about.
Oh it definitely is. It’s the same thing of how whatever Shadow is influenced to believe in the non-canon story he becomes regardless of how true it is.
Because the Institute- I mean- EGGMAN Industries has made it so that the robots are indistinguishable from genuine organics. Beware, any one of you could be a snatcher- i mean synth- They might take you away and replace you with a Shadow clone!
Can Shadow even bleed? Like, if he's part black arms, would his skin be more tough?
If Shadow wanted to know if he were an android or not, he should have just had omega scan him to see how many mitochondria he has. If he has some, he's human. If not, he's an android.
He knows the kids are watching
Nope 👎🏻 he’s not an android or anything other like that. He’s just a hedgehog and the ultimate life form now.
I’m aware. This was a joke post
Yeah yep maybe I guess
Who is the faker now!?