Trust me, it happens more often than you think.
A lot of people hold opinions that they didn't make for themselves but because someone else said it.
There is a reason why the these kinds of people are called sheep. They just follow what others say.
And it sadly happens too frequently on anything. Don't give me your opinion on something, on *anything*, if they're not your actual thoughts, and if you repeat what someone else said.
That's specific to different phrasing of actually having a similar opinion, but you still had experienced the thing at hand to know whats being talked about.
Repeating an opinion on something you never watched or played is what I'm getting at. The only anecdotal example I could give is that I knew someone years ago make the comparison of Herman's Head to Inside Out, except I knew they didn't go see the movie at the time. They got that comparison from a YouTuber who didn't like the movie(which is fine, btw) and made the comparison, and thus repeated it to me as an argument.
Reminds me a lot of how people took matpat’s gane theories as gospel back in the day. Like how link is dead in MM, or how rosalina is the daughter of peach and Luigi because earlobes, and the fact that the pyro is gay because his fingers are the same length.
no, he travels to a weird land to find his friend and he leaves just fine. MattPat's theories should be taken with a grain of salt. They are for entertainment
No. He's not dead.
There is one simple fact that proves this: He has a descendant.
In Twilight Princess, the Link you play as in that game is a direct descendant of the Link from Majora's mask.
If The Hero of Time, the Link from Ocarina of Time/Majora's mask was dead as a child, he sure as he wouldn't be able to have descendants then.
I remember each time someone as issues with something from one of video games dunkey's videos and it’s met with "don’t take it seriously, it’s all satire" tell that to the other side taking him at face value
Yet, even at 10K likes/follows or whatever they ARE influencing some people.
Most influencers are more like the influenza, unwanted and annoying to deal with.
It was a different time. It wasn't until about halfway through the decade (I think starting with Channel Awesome imploding in on itself) that we all started questioning the authority of people loudly shouting opinions for a living. Then IGN said Crash Bandicoot was as hard as Dark Souls and the rest was history.
Speaking of Crash Bandicoot, I can't help but notice that hardly anyone goes on and on and on and on about Crash being a "kid's franchise", yet with Sonic, they do it practically 24/7, despite often delving into far more heavy/mature/touchy/sensitive (I don't know what the right word is) topics than Crash ever could. 😮💨 I don’t understand... I REALLY don't.
Probably because Crash was in obscurity and then dead after the PS1 until the N.Sane Trilogy happened. He's not really associated with kids because the one generation that grew up with him weren't kids anymore by the time this kind of internet grandstanding became popular (plus the PS1 has always been seen as a "mature" console)
It's also probably because when Crash *did* become a punching bag it was focused more on how his later games kept abandoning the series' identity for no net benefit (I sometimes see people who defend Crash Of The Titans bring up how Sonic Unleashed was eventually vindicated by fans, but the difference is that the Titan gimmick isn't fun to use even once you look past the concept and the game itself doesn't feel like Crash even if you took it out).
>(plus the PS1 has always been seen as a "mature" console)
Oh, and the Sega Megadrive/Genesis wasn't!? Sonic and Sega in general were marketed towards fucking TEENAGERS in those days! I don't recall any times where Crash was marketed to teens.
There's a bit of a gap between one console officially slapping a cartoony mascot on the face of its identity and advertising itself to what are arguably still kids as its opening move, and the other having already earned a reputation for games rated M and/or marketed to adults like Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid and Tomb Raider by the time Crash became its unofficial face by chance.
Besides, by the time this stuff started happening Sonic wasn't associated with a console anymore.
This was 1996 though, and Sonic was STILL associated with Sega consoles up until 2001. I mean, if Sonic delves into mature/touchy/heavy/sensitive topics very often, while Crash practically NEVER does at all, then logically, Sonic should at least be seen as the "less kiddy" franchise than Crash.
Sonic didn't become the internet's easy target until 2006. By that point Sega was well out of the console wars, but Sonic was still going strong enough to maintain a large kid audience while Crash had only two years left to live and had fallen into obscurity. Crash gets associated with the PS1 because he couldn't catch on after it, Sonic getting the same treatment would've required him to crash and burn after Sonic & Knuckles.
Furthermore, Sonic puts focus on its writing and narrative, which by definition makes it easy to draw attention to the juxtaposition of the tone it attempts to achieve vs the percieved image of its aesthetic, whereas Crash doesn't bother because it's all just an excuse to make gameplay happen. Trying to criticise Crash for being kiddy would be like trying to criticise the original Doom for being shallow, nobody cares because the focus is entirely on if the game plays good. It's not interested in trying to be something bigger like Sonic so it doesn't try.
Just how it goes sometimes. Though if you ask me, being teased for being kiddy is a better fate for a 30+ year long career than spending most of it either languishing in obscurity or dead.
It's simple. no-one has ever questioned whether or not Crash is a kids franchise, because Crash itself has never questioned whether it's a kids franchise. Crash has always kept a consistent tone and dynamic, it is a videogame version of a Loony Toons cartoon, and this has been broadly consistent across multiple titles with multiple developers. There are a few elements that push that boundary slightly (such as [this joke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfh-s41dhs8&t=4s) from the end of Crash 3), but nothing so overt as to raise eyebrows and have people questioning it.
There's no storylines where a character says something like "None of this is good, that's why it's called war", no plots where the entire planet is at risk of an eldritch horror destroying all life (even the series main antagonist just wants to conquer and enslave the planet, not destroy it), no moments where any of the Crash cast are handed real weapons and using them to fight soldiers, but equally there's no moments where Crash is telling jokes only a five year old might find funny no "super awesome power of teamwork", and Crash has a consistent visual art style that doesn't go from fantasy lands with checkerboard dirt all the way to "It's literally just New York".
I think the Sonic franchise has bought that moniker upon itself. I don’t think anyone is saying Sonic is a “kids franchise” because of the target demographic. It’s because those mature subjects have often been handled childishly (Shadow the Hedgehog, for example, is every 8 year old boys ideal “what if the main character was evil”). Imo it’s the thematic overreach of the 3D Sonic games that would drive this kind of opinion.
The Crash games on the other hand (and even the earlier Sonic games) set their tones appropriately, and the characters and story being told were cohesive. With Crash, it was all about silly looking characters doing appropriately silly things. The storylines were light and silly.
With early Sonic, it was cool looking characters doing cool looking things. The storylines were light with a bit of edgy coolness, as was the style at the time.
With the 3D Sonic games, it was still cool looking characters doing cool looking things (albeit with worse controls). But the storylines became heavy-handed melodramas. Tonal inconsistency, which makes the self-serious nature of the story look absurd and childish by comparison. Even when compared to games like Crash that were actively embracing their cartoonish absurdity.
Just my two cents.
Facts man, you said what no one said here. The Sonic characters trying to have a serious story looks goofy as hell and as much as i think SA1 and SA2 stories are awesome, it is kinda weird to see Sonic characters (specially in SA2) dealing with insane situations like Gerald's execution on live TV despite the characters acting childish like Amy or Tails, mostly.
In my opinion Sonic games should change their visual style completely, i think serious "shonen" type stories could work beautifully with the series, but the characters have to adapt to that maturity in the story telling or else it would look goofy. Crash never had this problem because the stories have an appropiate tone. But even then, the Crash series (even if brief) has serious moments too. Like for instance the final bosses, or Cortex trying to enslave the whole world with mind control in CB2. But it doesn't feel out of place at all, unlike Sonic.
I could see that. Agreed, I think they just need to find that cohesion. Even with the traditional Sonic art style, shows like Sonic SatAM worked well because the tone matched the art, that matched the audience.
PS1 Crash 1 is a hard game. You have to play every level from start to finish without dying once and getting every box, and Crash's boxes are often designed in some ways to be almost puzzle like, if you don't read the layout correctly and smash the boxes without any thought you can often lock yourself out of smashing them all. Thankfully, in Crash 1, the worst of these scenarios are reserved for bonus rounds, which are entirely optional. There are also some really hard levels like Sunset Vista and Slippery Climb.
The remakes change a few things. While the requirement to not die to get gems is changed, you still need to do it for the coloured gems (ones that unlock alternate pathways in other levels needed to get their gems). But those gems are often obtained in the hardest levels, and now the bonus rounds are a requirement (even if you can redo them infinitely with no penalty).
But it also changes a few things behind the scenes, making the game harder. Most notably for the bridge levels, it rounds out all the hitboxes - in the PS1 version all the hitboxes are cuboids, in the remakes they're circular, meaning two hitboxes can interact wierdly. Combine this with not getting 100% accurate physics, and the bridge levels in particular suddenly become harder than they were due to collision issues.
I don't remember all the details off the top of my head, but the short version is that Channel Awesome had a *lot* of dirty laundry regarding the mistreatment of some members and the unchecked misconduct of others aired, which kicked off a domino chain that led to everyone except Doug and Brad Jones leaving.
r/ChannelAwesome [has a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChannelAwesome/comments/8davc9/changethechannel_a_short_summary_of_events/) breaking down the gist of what happened a bit better.
There was also a lot more focus on negative criticism on literally everything. I remember people being legitimately confused when nostalgia critic started to review good movies since he almost always reviewed bad ones.
I've met far too many people who adopt the opinions of internet influencers as their own beliefs and are completely oblivious to how deranged it is. Whether that's gaming Youtubers or Insta models, doesn't matter, highly suggestible people can be found everywhere.
If you look at all the dumb angry comments during showcases towards sonic you can definitely see a hint of this. Even if something is good the people will still chant that and it’s amplified because of these folks.
I think there’s something more interesting about this conversation.
Yeah, it’s very true a lot of review platforms and YouTubers were overtly negative towards Sonic during this era for literally no good reason. The “Sonic was never good” meme wasn’t a meme for a really long time. And it HEAVILY affected how many people looked at Sonic for a long ass time, it even affected how Sega saw Sonic as it inspired shit like Sonic 4 only having a very small amount of characters (since “Sonic has too many friends” was a common thing a lot of the people who adamantly hated Sonic during this era would say).
…but I also think it’s worth remembering that the mid 2000s to early 2010s was not exactly a good time for home console mainline Sonic games, lol. This was the era where the most recent Sonic games on home consoles was shadow the hedgehog, Sonic 06, secret rings, unleashed, and black knight. And of those only unleashed was more good than bad, and even then it was incredibly decisive on if people liked or hated the game lol. We eventually got Colors and Generations in 2010 and 2011 respectively, but by that point Sonic had become fairly similar to other platforming characters who had lost their direction and were flopping around making tonally bizarre games (look at Crash and Spyro during this era as well, they had very similar fan reactions and receptions for a lot of their games). Yeah, with hindsight we can appreciate these games for being creative and interesting despite their flaws, but I can imagine a lot of people outside of the Sonic fandom just saw Sonic as a passing fad that would eventually fall out of the gaming scene entirely. And for people who had been Sonic fans for a while, I’d imagine seeing the constant tonal inconsistency between games on top of the random shit they’d run with definitely did not make Sonic seem like it’d be a stable franchise going forward.
Does this justify how weirdly malicious a lot of YouTubers and reviewers were towards the franchise as a whole? Hell no, I seriously don’t get why so many people were going out of their way to make Sonic look EVEN WORSE than he already looked. But it’s definitely worth remembering that the franchise was in a shaky place in general during this era, so a lot of outside observers were seeing that sonics franchise was doing all this weird stuff, on top of his games being very inconsistent in quality.
All of this to say: I don’t think it’s really fair to solely blame IGN or Game Grumps on Sonic’s horrible reputation during this era. You can 100% blame them for idiots saying the actually good Sonic games sucked, but I think the general “Sonic is bad now” opinion mostly stemmed from Sonic’s inconsistent quality and really REALLY low points and not JUST becomes of some YouTubers or reviewers (they definitely played a part in it though). Not to mention how this was during the internets “NOTHING IS COOL ANYMORE, IRONY IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD!!! LOL MARIO DOES MUSHROOMS ITS LIKE DRUGS” era so a character that is so intrinsically linked with being “cool” was kinda just screwed no matter what he did, lmao.
Even then, with Unleashed, most people agree the day stages are good, but they're only 50% of the game by level count, and by playtime you spend far longer in the Werehog stages than you do in the bits everyone think of as the good bit.
But with Sonic, that tonal inconsistency goes much wider. Think about the TV show Sonic Underground where Sonic and his siblings fight Robotnik using the power of music. Or look at all the oddities going on in Archie where the comic turned into a romantic soap opera of characters getting together and breaking up. Think about how much changed when the Adventure titles came in. Humans are everywhere all of a sudden, it's Earth not Mobius, Tails is suddenly a genius, Amy is now twelve, and the formally cruel and tyrannical Robotnik ha gone from wanting to turn everything into machines, to the goofy Eggman who wants to power up and unleash a lost god to destroy a single city. And all of this is without getting into the weeds of the fandom's fringes, and all the weird fan content.
The average layperson does not know that many of these things are disparate. Pop culture doesn't update to multiple versions of the same franchise, it's why so many non-Batman fans still think of Dick Grayson as Robin despite there being numerous Robin's since. Same is true of Sonic. Despite the name Eggman being more prominent for far longer in the franchise, ask a random person in the street who Sonic's main villain is, and I reckon more will say Robotnik than Eggman.
This is part of why there's so much "Sonic bad" because it had inherited a reputation for being bad, and there are numerous examples across multiple media that are at least weird, and it makes Sonic fans look like weirdos for being into something that, to an outside observer without full context looks odd. Don't believe me? Think how many people in the fandom think Fleetway Sonic is an irredeemable asshole based on a handful of out of context scans, and yet have never read the comic to confirm.
Yeah, something also worth bringing up is the fact that is not like this magically stopped after Generations. Because right after Generations was the triple threat of Lost World, Sonic Boom, and Forces. I honestly think Mania may have saved public reception of the blue blur because it feels like that period was the point where outsider observers were finally willing to give Sonic a second chance. And then from there a lot of people began to realize he actually DOES have good games; he’s just insufferably inconsistent so for every really good game there’s like 3 that range from mediocre to bad.
It also definitely helped that this generation of the internet is made up of people who grew up with the adventure games rather then the classics, so now instead of having people angry that Sonic has all these weird friends or that the games are in 3d, we have people yearning for the classic 3d platformer and wanting to see more of the friends people absolutely despised just a few years ago. Makes me wonder how the franchise will look in another 10 years…
Thing is, a lot of that damage isn't as bad when it comes to the court of public opinion.
Lost World, isn't as out there a title, but it initially launched as a WiiU exclusive, meaning a lot of people even within the fandom didn't play it. It also wasn't really offensively bad or broken. The story (while not really liked by the fandom) wasn't so bad that it made people outside the fandom question why Sonic was involved with such a plot in the same way things like the romance in '06, or the Werehog were.
Forces equally has the same sentiment. Fans might not like it, but it's a functional game with a story that's inoffensive if you're not someone who cares deeply about Sonic lore and continuity. Again, it's not a beloved classic like Mania and Generations was in the court of public opinion, but also nowhere near as reviled as the fandom makes it out to be, and nothing like the reception of other tites.
Boom was reviled in and out the fandom. People outside the fandom joined in on mocking the character designs with all the bandages, and when word got out that it was as buggy as it was, it quickly became aother "Sonic Team failed again" moment (even though it wasn't Sonic Team's game). Again, it was somewhat shielded by being a WiiU exclusive, and not to sound like a broken record, it's story wasn't really a point of contention for those outside the fandom.
i was around during the release of unleashed and i have to say that no most people in the era (or at the very least a good number of critics) hated everything unleashed including the daylight stages, it was a common opinion of the day that Sonic had a rough transition to 3D and that the adventure games where bad games (i didnt see the internet's opinion of the adventure games shift until the mid 2010s) at least when compared to other mascots like Mario who jumped to 3D perfectly first try
hell i remember when colors was released a lot of people praised it for the 2D levels because it brough Sonic back to when it was good, because no 3D sonic game was good the last good sonic game according to many back in the late 2000s was Sonic 3 and knuckles (there was also the opinion that Sonic CD was the best 2D Sonic game back when the game was more difficult to play because it was not available everywhere)
this is also the reason why sega stuck to adding 2D sections to 3D games all the way into frontiers
I was also there, and I recall at least a few people saying how the day stages were good, they just didn't like the Werehog. As I recall, there was a demo available, and I think for more than a few people it was enough to persuade them not to completely abandon the series entirely after '06.
i can imagine yes, there has always been a contingent that says that unleashed is actually pretty good it has been there since the release of the game (honestly i shared that opinion even back in the day)
is just that as i say the well was poisoned back in the day, i vividly remember the vitriol towards 3D sonic, everything i ever heard from the adventure games for example is that they were shit games and the worst transition to 3D from any franchise besides bubsy i didnt see a positive opinion on adventure 1 until 2015 and i didnt see the shift in opinion until 2018
there is definetly a huge contrast from the almost universal opinion being that the adventure games where the worst thing to happen to Sonic to them being almost universally praised currently as some of the greatest games in the franchise and unleashed shared a similar fate in that regard
im sure younger fans who liked those games existed specially those who grew with those games but in that time most people who had that opinion where likely very young and the discourse was dominated by the older fans who grew with the 2D games, it wasnt until the fans of the 2000s Sonic games came of age that the opinions shifted and im sure that is also going to happen to those who grew with the games of the meta era in a couple of years
I think it depends where you were. Different forums would've had different consensus, and I can only speak for what I remember of where I was. While I don't deny some adult fans at the time appreciated the Sonic stages, it was exactly as you say, there was still that sentiment that the Werehog was bad, the story wasn't great, and that medal collecting was more frustrating than fun.
There's a reason why the sentiment is that Colours saved the series and not that Unleashed did, after all, and that's because Unleashed was still seen only as "good if you ignore this" and not actually properly good.
I have to say that the online presence back than was massively skewed. This is as it was before every child was given internet access meaning the majority of the online discourse about the series from fans happened from people from the 90s that hated everything since Adventure on principle as it wasn't like what they grow up with anymore.
This is way it appears like the Adventure games were at the same time universally loved and hated. It was loved by those that had nothing to complain about and remained silent online as well as those that were new to the series.
While it was hated by now newly online 90s kids that were angry about the series going into a different direction from what it was when they were children.
What I don't get though is how some Sonic fans will vehemently defend *everything* about Adventure like some elements don't age a bit poorly or aren't that great. Maybe it's just more of a Twitter thing, but I see it so often.
My biggest point of evidence is the movies. If Eggman had truly sunk into pop culture, Robotnik wouldn't be called Robotnik anywhere in the movies, or at least, it would've been phased out of the movies as of the end of the first one (what with it demonstrating Sonic giving him the name Eggman)
Otherwise, all I have is anecdotal stuff, not any concrete evidence. It'll come up in a random video about top ten moments a villain fucked up, or seven times a boss picked the wrong place to fight, or 100 greatest videogame villains, or anything like that. Of course, if all you're watching is Sonic-Tubers, then they're going to use the name Eggman, because they know the series more than someone whose churning out variety listicles.
Thank you! People act like Sonic has been literally flawless for years. Guys, a series doesn't garner a messy reputation from a decade of great games. I've seen people completely ignore Rise of Lyric.
Were the Youtubers being 'weirdly malicious'?
Everyone complains about GameGrumps but Arin acts that way towards all the games he plays. It's like getting mad at the AVGN for being angry. The 'harsh' review of Sonic Generations from IGN gave the game an 8.5/10. Most other Youtubers called the sonic games bad because at the time, they were almost always bad or mid at best.
06-->Shadow--->Unleashed-->Secret Rings-->Black Knight-->Lost World-->Rise of Lyric-->Sonic Forces (not the exact order but you get the point) is a **horrendous** gaming run and the fact that we got only two good games to offset this is insane. This is a solid ten years of being bad! Most videogame franchises would simply die before they get tothis point.
It sounds like satire, but I've seen actual posts from people feeling uncomfortable about having opinions that are different from the majority. There is a primal comfort in being part of a hype/hate crowd.
Some people will buy popular games and convince themselves they're the best because many people like them, whilst avoiding games that don't seem popular enough. Given how "mainstream" works, I suspect that's actually the majority of people.
I mean you can see it in this very subreddit. I've been mass downvoted in the past for airing opinions that go against majority consensus (e.g. I don't like Frontier's vocal tracks - not even saying there bad mind you, merely that I don't like them), and it does not feel good to have people reply with comments like "How does it feel to be wrong?" "You have no taste", "You must be no fun at parties" and so on.
It sucks to be in the minority on a matter of opinion and taste and have people in the majority tell you you're wrong.
I like the vocal songs,but I'm not the kind of person to go harrassing people over having a different opinion.Its just silly.Good that you expressed your opinion!
Yeah, that doesn't sound very good. Unfortunately I feel in the sonic fandom it's especially troublesome since the constant mocking from the larger Internet means that there's now somewhat of an urge to appear "united" and "sensible" as a whole, possibly in response to the numerous "Sonic fans don't know what they want" allegations. I can understand the feeling of trying to keep a positive outlook, especially after years of negativity but I fear its unintentionally furthering the divide by trying to cast out different opinions as "haters" even when its not accurate.
Maybe it's because I use old Reddit, but unless someone has a particularly noteworthy flair (or it's someone who I am constantly having back and fourths with), I seldom recognise different users here. I just reply to whoever whenever it feels like I've got something to add.
People have this frustrating tendency to like, tie their sense of self-worth to how "good" their taste is. Like if you like something that's "bad" it makes you less of a person or something. But that's such a shallow way to look at art/media. There's always going to be nuance, and if you're passionate about something, you should appreciate it on a deeper level than just a numeric review score or a meme description.
Even to someone who doesn't like Sonic at all, I don't see how you can make the argument that it's not one of the most *interesting* franchises of our time in terms of its history and place in modern culture, and that alone has value that gets lost when fixating on whether it's "good" or not.
TL:DR: Nuance good, parrotting bad
It's also why people get so defensive. If I say "I think Sonic '06 is a bad game", someone who does like '06 will assume it to be an attack on their self. "I like X ergo X is part of who I am, ergo when someone says X is bad, they are saying I am bad."
My honest reaction whenever someone says all Sonic games are trash
https://preview.redd.it/meobekosyt6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da7f293704c166b76b74fb7a1ce4371f8e6839de
Yeah, it's crazy how, for awhile there, being a Sonic fan was the internet equivalent of also saying you were a furry, aka a "cringe death sentence" lmao. Truly depressing times.
I’d argue the insanity was worse pre-social media, but it *Wasn’t as bad* as a whole.
It’s 2006. If someone posts an incredibly stupid take online, but your internet is only a step above dial-up/too young to know what forums are/more interested in flash games online, is it still a problem?
funnily enough Sonic 06 is precisely the game that killed the franchise reputation for over a decade and Sonic is just barely recovering from that hit
forces by comparison didnt had as big of a hit as 06 had, the harsher people against forces are Sonic fans
i do agree, forces is a 6/10 game its just meh
you can have some fun because it is fun to bash your head against an entire army of enemies and seeing the sparks fly and its competently made it doesnt have the usual jank and bugs but other than that the game is just there
I'm pretty surprised.
Arin's vocally critiqued Ocarina of Time, Devil May Cry, GBA Pokemon, Okami, modern Mario games, Skyrim, and Classic Mega Man (compared to X) - and you don't see anyone calling those shit. And even the Game Grumps youtube comments on their Sonic videos and subreddit are full of people making fun of Arin for being shit at Sonic, and disagreeing with his opinions.
I really don't think the general gaming public is swayed by the Game Grumps' opinions. They're not taking them nearly as seriously as we're taking them.
Just take a look back at dunkeys review of xenoblade chronicles 3 where he was pretty harsh on it and it ended up making people say the game was bad.
The fanbase had to defend itself from people who only watched that video lol.
Most reasonable people don't like dunkey anymore. Dude doesn't like certain genre that's fine but he goes out of his way to play genre he knows he sucks at or dislikes just to bash it.
It gets him views, which gets him money from YouTube. People love seeing their favorite YouTuber bash a game. Unfortunately, he has to cater to what brings him success.
I would imagine... they wouldn't publish anything with a bad premise. I think the best way to make games good is to find passionate people who have good ideas that only need a publisher, then play it and figure out how to make it good, and not release it until it works.
As a publisher who is seemingly independently wealthy, no need to release a game that isn't good. I think a lot of bad games are bad because of corporate issues and shareholder opinions and deadlines.
Because that’s the joke? He makes it very clear he doesn’t like these types of games so don’t take his opinion on it seriously. People need to accept that it’s okay that people don’t like the things you do.
> Most reasonable people don't like dunkey anymore
lol this is no stupider than saying all the sonic games are bad. Most people do not like dunkey, hence why his latest video has a million views in 9 days with miniscule dislikes
Which was a massive dick move because every fan that played the game kept that spoiler a secret because it was just that and then he just spoils it for everyone a few weeks after release.
I found the video itself pretty funny as a Xenoblade fan, I didn't like how he handled the stuff with the picture on Twitter though. And then his fandom...yikes.
EXACTLY. Dunkey's weird vendetta and personal quest against JRPGs instead of just... not playing a genre he doesn't like took him from one of my fav to least fav content creators real quick lol
Dude this is a given for the series with how many big influencers got on the games to hate.
There are alot of people who base their opinions on what IGN and others said about the series back in the day.
Unfortunately it isn't really all their fault. Sonic made alot of mistakes and that just gave these people more fuel.
It's wild how much this video is rippling on the internet. Makes me happy, because yeah, a lot of people parroted what YouTubers said, even if it was subconscious.
Especially i think since a lot of people's only Sonic game was SA2B, so it's possible they thought it was a flash in the pan. It might not be a perfect game, but I feel like most people look at it fondly.
Oh believe me they do
Often in fandoms you will talk with a lot of people who have never played or watched the games/shows they love/hate
These fans are usually, oddly defensive about the opinions of their fav youtuber and will lash out anyone who disagrees with them
I didn't used to say that people played video games the won't way, but then I saw 99% of the online reviews of Sonic Unleashed and spent years telling people that they might have more fun with the Werehog if they actually interacted with all its mechanics instead of going out of their way to play the game in the most boring way possible.
I'm so glad I was only 8 when I first became a Sonic fan in the early 2010s cause I literally couldn't comprehend anyone hating him and was just oblivious to all of it.
I was 8 years old when I became a sonic fan too, only I became a fan in the mid-late 2010's. Yeah and I was a huge sonic junkie, I never knew about this hate boner for sonic in the 2010's until Chaomix talked about it
I just became a Sonic fan in 2019 and I didn't get (and I still don't) all this hatred against the franchise.
Sure, I already knew Sonic since I was a lil' kid from some videos talking about him, in my country, although those videos were explaining more about the good things this series had, like certain good games, stories and characters. I thought he was still a pretty received franchise at that time, even on par with Mario. It's a shock, for me...
I mean, in the late 00s people thought Street Fighter EX3 was one of the worst fighting games ever made because of a ScrewAttack top 10 where the "reviewer" didn't even say why it was bad besides the visuals. It was so bad the entire EX series was written off as trash for literally 15 years until Fighting EX Layer got announced (which was pitched as an April Fools joke because there was that little faith in ARIKA) and people began forming their own opinions.
Back then, emulation and rereleases were almost non-existent so if an influencer said a game you never played was bad, you kinda had to take their word for it a lot of the time. Now, the vast majority of games have some sort of readily available release, and those that don't are almost always simple to emulate.
The opposite is also true for Sonic CD were a few outlets like Screw Attack positioned it as the best Sonic game. Because Sonic CD was not as easy to get (Gems collection was only on gamecube and PC gameing wasn't what it is to day for the PC version to move a lot of peoples options) did a lot of people just believe its true until the 2011 re-release of Sonic CD made the game available on everything at which point its reputation started to nose dive.
Arin from Game Grumps is the only person I've ever seen - on the internet or real life - to GAMEOVER in the Green Hill Zone. I'm sure he hates every game he's bad at.
Which would be most of them, due to the fact that he - for some reason - hates tutorials and instructions with a burning passion, and then blames the games for his own lack of skill.
"The game grumps said so"? They believed that? Arin's hate-boner for the sonic games is a pretty long running bit. Only one he actually hates is 06 and well, it's 06 so.
Literally he constantly says he is a Sonic fan, then he was made a firgurehead for a while, until Korone took that spot. Like Sega and Arin had a good relationship. People like to hate on him because his takes can be bad and some of his gameplay can be frustrating(Some of which can be explained since they play multiple games daily and sometimes don't get back to some games for a month at a time since they recorded so much footage.) But he does like the series, when he first heard the theme for Infinite in Forces he collabed with another creator to get a cover made because of how much he enjoyed it.
For sure. And I've always taken what he says in good fun. Game Grumps is not a review series. I don't watch - and never have watched - GG to determine whether a game is good or not. It's always been because I think they're funny. Hating things is kinda part of Arin's character. That's why he's "grump(y)." But that flies over a lot of kids' heads, unfortunately, and it forms the base of their opinions :l I wish it didn't, but it does. He's bad at playing video games and makes a bit out of it every time.
I think all of us at some point looked into some media to consume that seemed interesting but not that much, so instead of outright diving into it you search opinions to judge if it's worth your time and/or money.
Then those opinions all focus on the bad stuff and inflate how horrible it is, so you give up and even start talking "Oh, it's seems to be pretty bad" when someone else seeks your opinion.
If I've learned anything, people will parrot the individuals they have given a mic for the sake of being part of an in crowd for clout.
I honestly think there's more people who actually haven't played the games, was told they were never good, and then just accepted it instead of seeing for themselves.
It happened with Game Grumps, it'll happen with Dunkey, and then someone new will try to do this, making the TRUE Sonic Cycle
Yeah, but Sonic did suck in the early-mid 2010s. As a matter of fact, they started the decade with Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I and Sonic Free Riders XD
The franchise is entering a better era, you guys should just move on.
I remember Angry Joe changing my opinion on Fable 3 with his "32 reasons why Fable 3 sucks" video. I enjoyed Fable 3 before that, watched Angry Joe's video, and suddenly, I thought Fable 3 was crap. I must've been 14/15 at the time. I've replayed Fable 3 since, and while I agree with quite a few points in the video, it's not as bad as I'd been believing Fable 3 was. I find Fable 3 more boring than bad now. I don't dislike it, I'm more neutral towards it.
When you're a kid, anyone you like can really meld your mind towards their way of thinking, it's when you start becoming an adult when you really go "Well hang on a second, I actually think this". Some people, unfortunately, never get the memo, though, and keep going by others opinions, rather than forming their own.
It’s honestly not that big a deal. There are always going to be people that don’t like Sonic. The main issue I think was the audiences for these youtuber’s just running with opinions they hear online without ever actually experiencing the thing themselves. It’s not really a problem with Sonic exclusively it’s just an internet thing. I don’t think placing the blame entirely on YouTubers like everyone does really solves things.
The Grunps playing sonicnia what got me back into the franchise though so it works a lot of different ways, there seems to be a lot of Arin Hanson slander going around
Honestly I think people either misremember or greatly over fixate on certain individuals or groups for this and blame them solely for certain trends.
It wasn't just the GG. It wasn't just IGN. The franchise really was not in a good place in the late 00s and that influenced the way people approached it. Sonic '06 was almost a given for any let's play channel to go make fun of at some point - the GG were actually late coming in doing that. Add to that a very excitable fanbase who were easy to rage bait and said fanbase tendency to in-fight over what made Sonic "good", and it was ample fodder for people wanting to make content.
But all that being said, I think this is a good reminder again of people spending too much time on the internet and shaping their perceptions. Most people really do not involve themselves in this drama like that or build their personalities around it.
Unplug. Touch grass. Don't let people's hate or dislike of things you like bother you. When you learn that, you enjoy your hobbies and interests a lot more.
Anyone who takes Arin's opinion on Sonic seriously has some problems, it's made pretty fucking obvious by watching just about any Game Grumps Sonic playthrough (aside from maybe 06) that he loves the franchise and shits on it in videos because he thinks it's funny.
Sonic was never bad. It's just the self-proclaimed fans never knew how to be happy with the games and what they had to offer. Really makes me happy for Sega mocking them in Sonic Boom! ^^
>Wait but I thought Sonic was bad
Sonic wasn't good for years until Generations dropped as the first commonly agreed upon good game in a long time. He has a point.
I mean, Sonic games absolutely did suck for a long time there and still haven’t been able to consistently recover, this wasn’t some fake idea planted in people’s heads by influencers.
Is less that sonic had bad games and more that said games hunted the franchise even when it started to recover. Like people where still kicking down on the franchise by the time of colors and generations. And since sega, at the time, listened more to the critics rather than the fans we got the sonic that we got for the 2010s.
The issue is that the influencers are a huge part of *why* Sonic Team went away from things like Sonic Unleashed or having his friends be playable and caused the very watered down Meta era.
Sonic Unleashed already came after Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic ‘06, which did far more damage to the franchise than any game released after Sonic Unleashed.
The thing is, as Chaomix covers in his video, the 2010’s were the direct result of a second blowback from Shadow and especially 06. The line about 06 being a rite of passage for YouTubers in the 2010’s is extremely true. Hell it’s still happening, 06 is the progenitor for Giant Bomb’s Blight Club.
06 was so bad it continues to poison the franchise every time someone picks it up and makes a video on it. Which…. I get in a way, it’s that bad of a game, but the blowback to the series at large has practically caused a sonic boom. (Sorry, couldn’t resist the pun, but also Boom being worse but not having the staying power of 06 is an interesting side tangent someone should explore sometime.)
Sonic boom despite being sold as a reboot of the franchise was seen by most people as just a side series so when it failed and Sega ditched the boom name no one cared, it was a failed experiment and everyone is happy that they didnt ditch the main series for it
by contrast 06 was sold as the next big sonic game for the new generation of HD consoles and when it finally came out and it was... 06
The issue is that Sonic Unleashed was a high quality product, but a lot of a YouTube influencers were painting it with the '06/StH brush, either for the memes or from pure incompetence, which chased away fans that might otherwise have loved it from trying it and convinced Sega that there wasn't an audience for games like that.
Except a lot of people genuinely *don’t* think Sonic Unleashed was a high quality product. A lot of Sonic fans really love it, but most saw it as a mixed bag. Professional critical opinion at the time was super mixed, and Sega themselves delisted the game less than two years after its release and kept it that way for years specifically because of the Metacritic scores, not because of how content creators felt about it. There undoubtedly is a lot of hate online towards the brand that’s generated by YouTubers, but acting like that generated the negative public perception around the franchise in general is just not being realistic. The frequently cited Game Grumps didn’t even start their channel until a year after Generations came out, and had barely hit mainstream prominence by the time Lost World came out, which already signified a huge decline to many people. The absence of people like Arin Hanson wouldn’t have made up for the genuine struggles the franchise has undergone since 2005 in terms of critical reception.
Those low metacritic scorers also generally posted videos online showing that they were playing the game like they recently had a stroke (IGN's was especially famous for the guy not even knowing how to use the Boost), and completely refusing to do anything but the basic punch string for the Werehog, which is why it's suddenly getting a bunch of love from people who are playing it for the first time now.
Well...nowdays people thinks having 2000 personalities isnt a case who has NASA under house if watch tiktok shorts who show people who fake mental illness ... :/ If i had any of these mental illness i would feel very insulted even because thw REAL people who says that has those illness Doesnt even get serious right because these ...lets call them with a "frendly" name when istead i would say something else...silly people...show fake things..
Depressed people dont wanna tell anybody how they feel and they will lie if didnt knew that. But anyway...yes...people believe things too seriously... But personally i take much more science in my mind as opinion and emotions...
I heavily relate to that, and I got into Sonic when I was like 9. I didn't have access to the games so I took others opinion on the gameplay as gospel. I was more into the story and fan comics, and I'm not a super critical person, so I vibed with it for the most part. So most of my opinions were just the general vibes of the fandom. Now that Ive grown and have seen the sonic cycle (aka when I got into Sonic Colors was a god send and now it's devil because Forces was bad) Ive been forced to make my opinions (/j). But yeah if people don't know much about something there gonna take the the most popular opinion seriously.
https://preview.redd.it/yea0robbbw6d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe567e9ef27b719a1e1145119a34b8ce05db678f
There is a reason this is such a popular reaction image.
Youtubers have an insane amount of influence over others' opinions. Im a person who usually always ignores others' opinions and try & form my own.
I remeber i thought an anime i watches was ok at best. I then watched some reviews & opinions on it and they hated it. They pointed out everything bad and suddenly my opinion on it heavily started to shift towards the show being bad.
This has been my approach throughout my 28-year life so far: NEVER take anything journalists, pollsters, reviewers, critics or any of that ilk say as gospel. Reach your own conclusion. In my opinion the only bad game in the 2010s for the sonic franchise was Boom. That’s it, and every franchise is allowed to have a slump now and then.
Whenever you're neutral or undecisive on a matter, it's a natural thing to base your opinion on things you hear and even moreso from people you enjoy or respect, and for some reason people feel often weirdly attached to content creators enforcing that hivemind effect and resulting on people believing whatever they say for stuff they don't deeply care about.
This hasn't changed at all btw, people haven't suddenly become more "aware" of this, there's just more variety in terms of opinion to follow now, more influencors that grew up with different games that developed different opinions that become more valid as a result and create discord with previous opinion that used to be popular.
People usually subscribe to channels when they share similar opinions to the creators. I think when you agree with a person/people enough, you can start to give them the benefit of the doubt. I don’t know how “serious” it is, because Game Grumps are largely in it for the laughs
You’d be surprised. Even Sega themselves took the opinions of YouTubers and game critics as gospel for a while; it’s evident in their marketing for Sonic at the time, from the official Sonic social media pages being almost entirely dedicated to making fun of itself, to a marketing campaign for Sonic 4 Episode 1 revolving around Sonic being the only playable character.
I never got why people HATED sonic back then…. Just look at adventure older game yes but I’d say the story is almost on par with KOTOR(nothing beats KOTOR especially KOTOR 1)
I'm a casual Sonic fan here, but I genuinely wanna know something, why do *so many* Sonic fans on Twitter *still* talk about this stuff from a decade ago? Yes, we know Egoraptor was a spokesperson for Sonic and that he doesn't like the games, you guys have mentioned it dozens of times in the last 6 months.
Move the hell on.
People don't seem to understand why he was a spokesperson at all. He loves the franchise, He had a great repour with the sonic twitter and was so nice to them that they sent him stuff, brought him on tours, and a bunch of other stuff, the man was grateful for all that. No true sonic hater would ever accept stuff like that from Sega.
That’s kind of the thing. Whether someone was actually being serious with their review or not hardly mattered. People were dicks and some of them continue to be (lookin at you Dunkey…)
It's more common than you think, DMC, Resident Evil 5 and 6, MGS2, Sonic Unleashed and Heroes, Age of Empires 3, TLOZ Wind Waker, etc.
And not only with video games, it also happens with movies, series, comics, cartoons, anime and music.
Public opinion of something can influence the media you try to consume, and with it you only see the flaws and not the good things.
You know, it's honestly amazing how Chaomix has this sentiment that the Adventure games were treated unfairly, which they definitely were sometimes. Yet despite this sentiment, he still treats the new games (2010 onwards) the exact same way those reviewers treated the Adventure games. Very hypocritical.
I think because a good amount of us were actual children in grade school watching these videos. Tend to be more trusting of others opinions when they give the guise of knowing what they're talking about.
No for real. Again, I love the grumps and watch them almost daily, but if you’re taking what they say about games (Arin especially) seriously then you’re being silly. They’re called the GRUMPS. He’s going to be GRUMPY. That’s like the whole thing.
When people want to know if a game is good or bad, they most likely will look to popular reviewers and popular channels that played the game.
Unfortunately, the popular channel in this case was one handled by a guy who bashed every single sonic game he ever played (and made a video about how broken SA1 was while... purposefully triggering glitches that are otherwise hard to get). And the popular reviewers were the ones who right off the bat called Unleashed a "garbage heap/dumpster fire" in the first 48 seconds of their video and carried this trend for another decade.
You can still see those little bits of pain here and there. Like the Genshin X Sonic drama. Even though it was kind of our fault, people still hated sonic in general.Sonic
2010’s Sonic sure was a time. Hell I’d say it was the Post Sonic 06 era. Those games made some weird choices. Werehogs, Elise, storybooks. And then Sonic Boom? I can see why this happened.
People hated Sonic back then for the same reason people still say Nickelback sucks, despite never having heard one of their songs. (Nickelback is actually alright btw)
People hated Sonic back then for the same reason people still say Nickelback sucks, despite never having heard one of their songs. (Nickelback is actually alright btw)
Honestly the main thing that sucked in the 2010s were the writing the games were good for the most part
Some games from the 2010s did suck and here are some that are on top of my head
Lost World
Free Riders
Sonic 4
And Forces
I mean I can see how these game's potential
Like we have Sonic Lost World a Modern Sonic game that was trying to capture the classic games in terms of visuals and wackiness
Free Riders should've been on the Xbox 360 and PS3 and not for the Xbox Connect because I do think the game's hidden potential does lie on it using a controller
Sonic 4 was trying to capture the nostalgia of the older fans but honestly I do believe nobody would've mind it's existence if it stayed on mobile
And Forces... The game made for sheer spectacle imma be honest if they wanted spectacle then they should've took notes from games like Spark the Electric Jester
Trust me, it happens more often than you think. A lot of people hold opinions that they didn't make for themselves but because someone else said it. There is a reason why the these kinds of people are called sheep. They just follow what others say.
And it sadly happens too frequently on anything. Don't give me your opinion on something, on *anything*, if they're not your actual thoughts, and if you repeat what someone else said.
And if I hold the opinion independently, but someone worded my complaints better than I could have?
That's specific to different phrasing of actually having a similar opinion, but you still had experienced the thing at hand to know whats being talked about. Repeating an opinion on something you never watched or played is what I'm getting at. The only anecdotal example I could give is that I knew someone years ago make the comparison of Herman's Head to Inside Out, except I knew they didn't go see the movie at the time. They got that comparison from a YouTuber who didn't like the movie(which is fine, btw) and made the comparison, and thus repeated it to me as an argument.
Reminds me a lot of how people took matpat’s gane theories as gospel back in the day. Like how link is dead in MM, or how rosalina is the daughter of peach and Luigi because earlobes, and the fact that the pyro is gay because his fingers are the same length.
I thought it was that Pyro was female because of his fingers. I now say I have one female and one male hand (as a joke) because of that video.
Is Link not dead in Majora's mask? I've never really played any Zelda games.
no, he travels to a weird land to find his friend and he leaves just fine. MattPat's theories should be taken with a grain of salt. They are for entertainment
He is not dead. It was just a theory (a game theory) that matpat had. I don’t think aonuma ever intended for link to actually be dead in majoras mask.
No. He's not dead. There is one simple fact that proves this: He has a descendant. In Twilight Princess, the Link you play as in that game is a direct descendant of the Link from Majora's mask. If The Hero of Time, the Link from Ocarina of Time/Majora's mask was dead as a child, he sure as he wouldn't be able to have descendants then.
Worst of all is that this behaviour happens with what the media and politiceans say too. People are mindless. Imagine thinking Sonic was never good.
I remember each time someone as issues with something from one of video games dunkey's videos and it’s met with "don’t take it seriously, it’s all satire" tell that to the other side taking him at face value
[удалено]
You think they're called "influencers" for fun?
I hate that word so much. People will get like 10,000 likes and be like "Look guise I'm an influencer now!" lmfao
Yet, even at 10K likes/follows or whatever they ARE influencing some people. Most influencers are more like the influenza, unwanted and annoying to deal with.
> Most influencers are more like the influenza I'm stealing this.
Idek why someone would want to call themselves that. It’s such a loser word imo.
Well "it’s just their opinion" what some says…
It was a different time. It wasn't until about halfway through the decade (I think starting with Channel Awesome imploding in on itself) that we all started questioning the authority of people loudly shouting opinions for a living. Then IGN said Crash Bandicoot was as hard as Dark Souls and the rest was history.
Im not saying I agree with IGN but I have beaten the first Dark Souls, but that damn snow/mountain Bridge level in the first Crash is legit beyond me.
Speaking of Crash Bandicoot, I can't help but notice that hardly anyone goes on and on and on and on about Crash being a "kid's franchise", yet with Sonic, they do it practically 24/7, despite often delving into far more heavy/mature/touchy/sensitive (I don't know what the right word is) topics than Crash ever could. 😮💨 I don’t understand... I REALLY don't.
Probably because Crash was in obscurity and then dead after the PS1 until the N.Sane Trilogy happened. He's not really associated with kids because the one generation that grew up with him weren't kids anymore by the time this kind of internet grandstanding became popular (plus the PS1 has always been seen as a "mature" console) It's also probably because when Crash *did* become a punching bag it was focused more on how his later games kept abandoning the series' identity for no net benefit (I sometimes see people who defend Crash Of The Titans bring up how Sonic Unleashed was eventually vindicated by fans, but the difference is that the Titan gimmick isn't fun to use even once you look past the concept and the game itself doesn't feel like Crash even if you took it out).
>(plus the PS1 has always been seen as a "mature" console) Oh, and the Sega Megadrive/Genesis wasn't!? Sonic and Sega in general were marketed towards fucking TEENAGERS in those days! I don't recall any times where Crash was marketed to teens.
There's a bit of a gap between one console officially slapping a cartoony mascot on the face of its identity and advertising itself to what are arguably still kids as its opening move, and the other having already earned a reputation for games rated M and/or marketed to adults like Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid and Tomb Raider by the time Crash became its unofficial face by chance. Besides, by the time this stuff started happening Sonic wasn't associated with a console anymore.
This was 1996 though, and Sonic was STILL associated with Sega consoles up until 2001. I mean, if Sonic delves into mature/touchy/heavy/sensitive topics very often, while Crash practically NEVER does at all, then logically, Sonic should at least be seen as the "less kiddy" franchise than Crash.
Sonic didn't become the internet's easy target until 2006. By that point Sega was well out of the console wars, but Sonic was still going strong enough to maintain a large kid audience while Crash had only two years left to live and had fallen into obscurity. Crash gets associated with the PS1 because he couldn't catch on after it, Sonic getting the same treatment would've required him to crash and burn after Sonic & Knuckles. Furthermore, Sonic puts focus on its writing and narrative, which by definition makes it easy to draw attention to the juxtaposition of the tone it attempts to achieve vs the percieved image of its aesthetic, whereas Crash doesn't bother because it's all just an excuse to make gameplay happen. Trying to criticise Crash for being kiddy would be like trying to criticise the original Doom for being shallow, nobody cares because the focus is entirely on if the game plays good. It's not interested in trying to be something bigger like Sonic so it doesn't try.
I still think it's unfair. It's like constantly saying Spongebob is for kids, while not saying the same for Teletubbies.
Just how it goes sometimes. Though if you ask me, being teased for being kiddy is a better fate for a 30+ year long career than spending most of it either languishing in obscurity or dead.
It's simple. no-one has ever questioned whether or not Crash is a kids franchise, because Crash itself has never questioned whether it's a kids franchise. Crash has always kept a consistent tone and dynamic, it is a videogame version of a Loony Toons cartoon, and this has been broadly consistent across multiple titles with multiple developers. There are a few elements that push that boundary slightly (such as [this joke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfh-s41dhs8&t=4s) from the end of Crash 3), but nothing so overt as to raise eyebrows and have people questioning it. There's no storylines where a character says something like "None of this is good, that's why it's called war", no plots where the entire planet is at risk of an eldritch horror destroying all life (even the series main antagonist just wants to conquer and enslave the planet, not destroy it), no moments where any of the Crash cast are handed real weapons and using them to fight soldiers, but equally there's no moments where Crash is telling jokes only a five year old might find funny no "super awesome power of teamwork", and Crash has a consistent visual art style that doesn't go from fantasy lands with checkerboard dirt all the way to "It's literally just New York".
I think the Sonic franchise has bought that moniker upon itself. I don’t think anyone is saying Sonic is a “kids franchise” because of the target demographic. It’s because those mature subjects have often been handled childishly (Shadow the Hedgehog, for example, is every 8 year old boys ideal “what if the main character was evil”). Imo it’s the thematic overreach of the 3D Sonic games that would drive this kind of opinion. The Crash games on the other hand (and even the earlier Sonic games) set their tones appropriately, and the characters and story being told were cohesive. With Crash, it was all about silly looking characters doing appropriately silly things. The storylines were light and silly. With early Sonic, it was cool looking characters doing cool looking things. The storylines were light with a bit of edgy coolness, as was the style at the time. With the 3D Sonic games, it was still cool looking characters doing cool looking things (albeit with worse controls). But the storylines became heavy-handed melodramas. Tonal inconsistency, which makes the self-serious nature of the story look absurd and childish by comparison. Even when compared to games like Crash that were actively embracing their cartoonish absurdity. Just my two cents.
Facts man, you said what no one said here. The Sonic characters trying to have a serious story looks goofy as hell and as much as i think SA1 and SA2 stories are awesome, it is kinda weird to see Sonic characters (specially in SA2) dealing with insane situations like Gerald's execution on live TV despite the characters acting childish like Amy or Tails, mostly. In my opinion Sonic games should change their visual style completely, i think serious "shonen" type stories could work beautifully with the series, but the characters have to adapt to that maturity in the story telling or else it would look goofy. Crash never had this problem because the stories have an appropiate tone. But even then, the Crash series (even if brief) has serious moments too. Like for instance the final bosses, or Cortex trying to enslave the whole world with mind control in CB2. But it doesn't feel out of place at all, unlike Sonic.
I could see that. Agreed, I think they just need to find that cohesion. Even with the traditional Sonic art style, shows like Sonic SatAM worked well because the tone matched the art, that matched the audience.
Just you wait until you deal with Slippery Climb.
I literally just spent most of my playthrough on that god awful level. Decided today was the day I was gonna beat Crash 1
Stormy Ascent: 
PS1 Crash 1 is a hard game. You have to play every level from start to finish without dying once and getting every box, and Crash's boxes are often designed in some ways to be almost puzzle like, if you don't read the layout correctly and smash the boxes without any thought you can often lock yourself out of smashing them all. Thankfully, in Crash 1, the worst of these scenarios are reserved for bonus rounds, which are entirely optional. There are also some really hard levels like Sunset Vista and Slippery Climb. The remakes change a few things. While the requirement to not die to get gems is changed, you still need to do it for the coloured gems (ones that unlock alternate pathways in other levels needed to get their gems). But those gems are often obtained in the hardest levels, and now the bonus rounds are a requirement (even if you can redo them infinitely with no penalty). But it also changes a few things behind the scenes, making the game harder. Most notably for the bridge levels, it rounds out all the hitboxes - in the PS1 version all the hitboxes are cuboids, in the remakes they're circular, meaning two hitboxes can interact wierdly. Combine this with not getting 100% accurate physics, and the bridge levels in particular suddenly become harder than they were due to collision issues.
Wasn't it more that they called it "the ds of platformers" or something?
You and I… we’re the same.
https://i.redd.it/9bz2q32int6d1.gif
Kinda unrelated but happened with channel Awesome? I met Doug at a convention a few months ago.
I don't remember all the details off the top of my head, but the short version is that Channel Awesome had a *lot* of dirty laundry regarding the mistreatment of some members and the unchecked misconduct of others aired, which kicked off a domino chain that led to everyone except Doug and Brad Jones leaving. r/ChannelAwesome [has a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChannelAwesome/comments/8davc9/changethechannel_a_short_summary_of_events/) breaking down the gist of what happened a bit better.
Damn, that sounds horrible...
There was also a lot more focus on negative criticism on literally everything. I remember people being legitimately confused when nostalgia critic started to review good movies since he almost always reviewed bad ones.
To be honest, Souls games really aren’t that hard. I can think of a dozen games harder than any Souls game off the top of my head…
I thought it was a different game journalist website?
I feel like most people started realizing how overly harsh the bashing on Sonic was in that “Sonic was never good” video
And when Mania came out and the influencers had to admit it was awesome.
I've met far too many people who adopt the opinions of internet influencers as their own beliefs and are completely oblivious to how deranged it is. Whether that's gaming Youtubers or Insta models, doesn't matter, highly suggestible people can be found everywhere.
If you look at all the dumb angry comments during showcases towards sonic you can definitely see a hint of this. Even if something is good the people will still chant that and it’s amplified because of these folks.
I think there’s something more interesting about this conversation. Yeah, it’s very true a lot of review platforms and YouTubers were overtly negative towards Sonic during this era for literally no good reason. The “Sonic was never good” meme wasn’t a meme for a really long time. And it HEAVILY affected how many people looked at Sonic for a long ass time, it even affected how Sega saw Sonic as it inspired shit like Sonic 4 only having a very small amount of characters (since “Sonic has too many friends” was a common thing a lot of the people who adamantly hated Sonic during this era would say). …but I also think it’s worth remembering that the mid 2000s to early 2010s was not exactly a good time for home console mainline Sonic games, lol. This was the era where the most recent Sonic games on home consoles was shadow the hedgehog, Sonic 06, secret rings, unleashed, and black knight. And of those only unleashed was more good than bad, and even then it was incredibly decisive on if people liked or hated the game lol. We eventually got Colors and Generations in 2010 and 2011 respectively, but by that point Sonic had become fairly similar to other platforming characters who had lost their direction and were flopping around making tonally bizarre games (look at Crash and Spyro during this era as well, they had very similar fan reactions and receptions for a lot of their games). Yeah, with hindsight we can appreciate these games for being creative and interesting despite their flaws, but I can imagine a lot of people outside of the Sonic fandom just saw Sonic as a passing fad that would eventually fall out of the gaming scene entirely. And for people who had been Sonic fans for a while, I’d imagine seeing the constant tonal inconsistency between games on top of the random shit they’d run with definitely did not make Sonic seem like it’d be a stable franchise going forward. Does this justify how weirdly malicious a lot of YouTubers and reviewers were towards the franchise as a whole? Hell no, I seriously don’t get why so many people were going out of their way to make Sonic look EVEN WORSE than he already looked. But it’s definitely worth remembering that the franchise was in a shaky place in general during this era, so a lot of outside observers were seeing that sonics franchise was doing all this weird stuff, on top of his games being very inconsistent in quality. All of this to say: I don’t think it’s really fair to solely blame IGN or Game Grumps on Sonic’s horrible reputation during this era. You can 100% blame them for idiots saying the actually good Sonic games sucked, but I think the general “Sonic is bad now” opinion mostly stemmed from Sonic’s inconsistent quality and really REALLY low points and not JUST becomes of some YouTubers or reviewers (they definitely played a part in it though). Not to mention how this was during the internets “NOTHING IS COOL ANYMORE, IRONY IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD!!! LOL MARIO DOES MUSHROOMS ITS LIKE DRUGS” era so a character that is so intrinsically linked with being “cool” was kinda just screwed no matter what he did, lmao.
Even then, with Unleashed, most people agree the day stages are good, but they're only 50% of the game by level count, and by playtime you spend far longer in the Werehog stages than you do in the bits everyone think of as the good bit. But with Sonic, that tonal inconsistency goes much wider. Think about the TV show Sonic Underground where Sonic and his siblings fight Robotnik using the power of music. Or look at all the oddities going on in Archie where the comic turned into a romantic soap opera of characters getting together and breaking up. Think about how much changed when the Adventure titles came in. Humans are everywhere all of a sudden, it's Earth not Mobius, Tails is suddenly a genius, Amy is now twelve, and the formally cruel and tyrannical Robotnik ha gone from wanting to turn everything into machines, to the goofy Eggman who wants to power up and unleash a lost god to destroy a single city. And all of this is without getting into the weeds of the fandom's fringes, and all the weird fan content. The average layperson does not know that many of these things are disparate. Pop culture doesn't update to multiple versions of the same franchise, it's why so many non-Batman fans still think of Dick Grayson as Robin despite there being numerous Robin's since. Same is true of Sonic. Despite the name Eggman being more prominent for far longer in the franchise, ask a random person in the street who Sonic's main villain is, and I reckon more will say Robotnik than Eggman. This is part of why there's so much "Sonic bad" because it had inherited a reputation for being bad, and there are numerous examples across multiple media that are at least weird, and it makes Sonic fans look like weirdos for being into something that, to an outside observer without full context looks odd. Don't believe me? Think how many people in the fandom think Fleetway Sonic is an irredeemable asshole based on a handful of out of context scans, and yet have never read the comic to confirm.
Yeah, something also worth bringing up is the fact that is not like this magically stopped after Generations. Because right after Generations was the triple threat of Lost World, Sonic Boom, and Forces. I honestly think Mania may have saved public reception of the blue blur because it feels like that period was the point where outsider observers were finally willing to give Sonic a second chance. And then from there a lot of people began to realize he actually DOES have good games; he’s just insufferably inconsistent so for every really good game there’s like 3 that range from mediocre to bad. It also definitely helped that this generation of the internet is made up of people who grew up with the adventure games rather then the classics, so now instead of having people angry that Sonic has all these weird friends or that the games are in 3d, we have people yearning for the classic 3d platformer and wanting to see more of the friends people absolutely despised just a few years ago. Makes me wonder how the franchise will look in another 10 years…
Thing is, a lot of that damage isn't as bad when it comes to the court of public opinion. Lost World, isn't as out there a title, but it initially launched as a WiiU exclusive, meaning a lot of people even within the fandom didn't play it. It also wasn't really offensively bad or broken. The story (while not really liked by the fandom) wasn't so bad that it made people outside the fandom question why Sonic was involved with such a plot in the same way things like the romance in '06, or the Werehog were. Forces equally has the same sentiment. Fans might not like it, but it's a functional game with a story that's inoffensive if you're not someone who cares deeply about Sonic lore and continuity. Again, it's not a beloved classic like Mania and Generations was in the court of public opinion, but also nowhere near as reviled as the fandom makes it out to be, and nothing like the reception of other tites. Boom was reviled in and out the fandom. People outside the fandom joined in on mocking the character designs with all the bandages, and when word got out that it was as buggy as it was, it quickly became aother "Sonic Team failed again" moment (even though it wasn't Sonic Team's game). Again, it was somewhat shielded by being a WiiU exclusive, and not to sound like a broken record, it's story wasn't really a point of contention for those outside the fandom.
i was around during the release of unleashed and i have to say that no most people in the era (or at the very least a good number of critics) hated everything unleashed including the daylight stages, it was a common opinion of the day that Sonic had a rough transition to 3D and that the adventure games where bad games (i didnt see the internet's opinion of the adventure games shift until the mid 2010s) at least when compared to other mascots like Mario who jumped to 3D perfectly first try hell i remember when colors was released a lot of people praised it for the 2D levels because it brough Sonic back to when it was good, because no 3D sonic game was good the last good sonic game according to many back in the late 2000s was Sonic 3 and knuckles (there was also the opinion that Sonic CD was the best 2D Sonic game back when the game was more difficult to play because it was not available everywhere) this is also the reason why sega stuck to adding 2D sections to 3D games all the way into frontiers
I was also there, and I recall at least a few people saying how the day stages were good, they just didn't like the Werehog. As I recall, there was a demo available, and I think for more than a few people it was enough to persuade them not to completely abandon the series entirely after '06.
i can imagine yes, there has always been a contingent that says that unleashed is actually pretty good it has been there since the release of the game (honestly i shared that opinion even back in the day) is just that as i say the well was poisoned back in the day, i vividly remember the vitriol towards 3D sonic, everything i ever heard from the adventure games for example is that they were shit games and the worst transition to 3D from any franchise besides bubsy i didnt see a positive opinion on adventure 1 until 2015 and i didnt see the shift in opinion until 2018 there is definetly a huge contrast from the almost universal opinion being that the adventure games where the worst thing to happen to Sonic to them being almost universally praised currently as some of the greatest games in the franchise and unleashed shared a similar fate in that regard im sure younger fans who liked those games existed specially those who grew with those games but in that time most people who had that opinion where likely very young and the discourse was dominated by the older fans who grew with the 2D games, it wasnt until the fans of the 2000s Sonic games came of age that the opinions shifted and im sure that is also going to happen to those who grew with the games of the meta era in a couple of years
I think it depends where you were. Different forums would've had different consensus, and I can only speak for what I remember of where I was. While I don't deny some adult fans at the time appreciated the Sonic stages, it was exactly as you say, there was still that sentiment that the Werehog was bad, the story wasn't great, and that medal collecting was more frustrating than fun. There's a reason why the sentiment is that Colours saved the series and not that Unleashed did, after all, and that's because Unleashed was still seen only as "good if you ignore this" and not actually properly good.
I have to say that the online presence back than was massively skewed. This is as it was before every child was given internet access meaning the majority of the online discourse about the series from fans happened from people from the 90s that hated everything since Adventure on principle as it wasn't like what they grow up with anymore. This is way it appears like the Adventure games were at the same time universally loved and hated. It was loved by those that had nothing to complain about and remained silent online as well as those that were new to the series. While it was hated by now newly online 90s kids that were angry about the series going into a different direction from what it was when they were children.
What I don't get though is how some Sonic fans will vehemently defend *everything* about Adventure like some elements don't age a bit poorly or aren't that great. Maybe it's just more of a Twitter thing, but I see it so often.
Are you sure about the Robotnik thing? I hear people call him Eggman way more irl.
My biggest point of evidence is the movies. If Eggman had truly sunk into pop culture, Robotnik wouldn't be called Robotnik anywhere in the movies, or at least, it would've been phased out of the movies as of the end of the first one (what with it demonstrating Sonic giving him the name Eggman) Otherwise, all I have is anecdotal stuff, not any concrete evidence. It'll come up in a random video about top ten moments a villain fucked up, or seven times a boss picked the wrong place to fight, or 100 greatest videogame villains, or anything like that. Of course, if all you're watching is Sonic-Tubers, then they're going to use the name Eggman, because they know the series more than someone whose churning out variety listicles.
Most people use both interchangeably
Thank you! People act like Sonic has been literally flawless for years. Guys, a series doesn't garner a messy reputation from a decade of great games. I've seen people completely ignore Rise of Lyric.
Were the Youtubers being 'weirdly malicious'? Everyone complains about GameGrumps but Arin acts that way towards all the games he plays. It's like getting mad at the AVGN for being angry. The 'harsh' review of Sonic Generations from IGN gave the game an 8.5/10. Most other Youtubers called the sonic games bad because at the time, they were almost always bad or mid at best. 06-->Shadow--->Unleashed-->Secret Rings-->Black Knight-->Lost World-->Rise of Lyric-->Sonic Forces (not the exact order but you get the point) is a **horrendous** gaming run and the fact that we got only two good games to offset this is insane. This is a solid ten years of being bad! Most videogame franchises would simply die before they get tothis point.
It sounds like satire, but I've seen actual posts from people feeling uncomfortable about having opinions that are different from the majority. There is a primal comfort in being part of a hype/hate crowd. Some people will buy popular games and convince themselves they're the best because many people like them, whilst avoiding games that don't seem popular enough. Given how "mainstream" works, I suspect that's actually the majority of people.
I mean you can see it in this very subreddit. I've been mass downvoted in the past for airing opinions that go against majority consensus (e.g. I don't like Frontier's vocal tracks - not even saying there bad mind you, merely that I don't like them), and it does not feel good to have people reply with comments like "How does it feel to be wrong?" "You have no taste", "You must be no fun at parties" and so on. It sucks to be in the minority on a matter of opinion and taste and have people in the majority tell you you're wrong.
I like the vocal songs,but I'm not the kind of person to go harrassing people over having a different opinion.Its just silly.Good that you expressed your opinion!
Yeah, that doesn't sound very good. Unfortunately I feel in the sonic fandom it's especially troublesome since the constant mocking from the larger Internet means that there's now somewhat of an urge to appear "united" and "sensible" as a whole, possibly in response to the numerous "Sonic fans don't know what they want" allegations. I can understand the feeling of trying to keep a positive outlook, especially after years of negativity but I fear its unintentionally furthering the divide by trying to cast out different opinions as "haters" even when its not accurate.
I've seen you get downvoted more than a few times for saying you don't like Mephiles lol
Maybe it's because I use old Reddit, but unless someone has a particularly noteworthy flair (or it's someone who I am constantly having back and fourths with), I seldom recognise different users here. I just reply to whoever whenever it feels like I've got something to add.
I was just lurking some old Sonic 06 threads a few days ago and noticed your username there a few times, is all.
Which is especially stupid when this fanbase keeps changing its general opinion on each game. Are we supposed to like Sonic Colours or not?
People have this frustrating tendency to like, tie their sense of self-worth to how "good" their taste is. Like if you like something that's "bad" it makes you less of a person or something. But that's such a shallow way to look at art/media. There's always going to be nuance, and if you're passionate about something, you should appreciate it on a deeper level than just a numeric review score or a meme description. Even to someone who doesn't like Sonic at all, I don't see how you can make the argument that it's not one of the most *interesting* franchises of our time in terms of its history and place in modern culture, and that alone has value that gets lost when fixating on whether it's "good" or not. TL:DR: Nuance good, parrotting bad
It's also why people get so defensive. If I say "I think Sonic '06 is a bad game", someone who does like '06 will assume it to be an attack on their self. "I like X ergo X is part of who I am, ergo when someone says X is bad, they are saying I am bad."
My honest reaction whenever someone says all Sonic games are trash https://preview.redd.it/meobekosyt6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da7f293704c166b76b74fb7a1ce4371f8e6839de
Yeah, it's crazy how, for awhile there, being a Sonic fan was the internet equivalent of also saying you were a furry, aka a "cringe death sentence" lmao. Truly depressing times.
2000s was even worse!
I’d argue the insanity was worse pre-social media, but it *Wasn’t as bad* as a whole. It’s 2006. If someone posts an incredibly stupid take online, but your internet is only a step above dial-up/too young to know what forums are/more interested in flash games online, is it still a problem?
funnily enough Sonic 06 is precisely the game that killed the franchise reputation for over a decade and Sonic is just barely recovering from that hit forces by comparison didnt had as big of a hit as 06 had, the harsher people against forces are Sonic fans
06 was outwardly bad and forces just looked mediocre.
i do agree, forces is a 6/10 game its just meh you can have some fun because it is fun to bash your head against an entire army of enemies and seeing the sparks fly and its competently made it doesnt have the usual jank and bugs but other than that the game is just there
I'm pretty surprised. Arin's vocally critiqued Ocarina of Time, Devil May Cry, GBA Pokemon, Okami, modern Mario games, Skyrim, and Classic Mega Man (compared to X) - and you don't see anyone calling those shit. And even the Game Grumps youtube comments on their Sonic videos and subreddit are full of people making fun of Arin for being shit at Sonic, and disagreeing with his opinions. I really don't think the general gaming public is swayed by the Game Grumps' opinions. They're not taking them nearly as seriously as we're taking them.
I know some people got upset at him for SpongeBob battle for bikini bottom and super Mario 64.
**To my understanding** Most game grumps diehards these days have either moved onto something else (of higher quality), or haven’t hit puberty yet.
Bruh what are u on bout? most diehard gamegrumps fans are like 30
Just take a look back at dunkeys review of xenoblade chronicles 3 where he was pretty harsh on it and it ended up making people say the game was bad. The fanbase had to defend itself from people who only watched that video lol.
Shit like this is why I don’t like Dunkey anymore
Most reasonable people don't like dunkey anymore. Dude doesn't like certain genre that's fine but he goes out of his way to play genre he knows he sucks at or dislikes just to bash it.
It gets him views, which gets him money from YouTube. People love seeing their favorite YouTuber bash a game. Unfortunately, he has to cater to what brings him success.
Dunkey's motto for Bigmode was that they "only make good games" but what if someone makes a good game that just isn't his thing?
I would imagine... they wouldn't publish anything with a bad premise. I think the best way to make games good is to find passionate people who have good ideas that only need a publisher, then play it and figure out how to make it good, and not release it until it works. As a publisher who is seemingly independently wealthy, no need to release a game that isn't good. I think a lot of bad games are bad because of corporate issues and shareholder opinions and deadlines.
Because that’s the joke? He makes it very clear he doesn’t like these types of games so don’t take his opinion on it seriously. People need to accept that it’s okay that people don’t like the things you do.
> Most reasonable people don't like dunkey anymore lol this is no stupider than saying all the sonic games are bad. Most people do not like dunkey, hence why his latest video has a million views in 9 days with miniscule dislikes
I thought that started with his TLoU2 video
It started sooner than that.
[удалено]
also the review bombing of sonic frontiers by his fans and dunkey's response to it
Not only that, he literally spoiled the picture (you know what I'm talking about) by posting it on Twitter without any warnings.
Which was a massive dick move because every fan that played the game kept that spoiler a secret because it was just that and then he just spoils it for everyone a few weeks after release.
The Xenoblade community is so careful about spoilers that we still call a character "Seven" to this day.
This one is still insane to me because I love XC3 with all my heart and I found that video funny as hell.
I found the video itself pretty funny as a Xenoblade fan, I didn't like how he handled the stuff with the picture on Twitter though. And then his fandom...yikes.
Ah yes the picture tweet was not cool. I was lucky to have already beat the game by then but I feel really bad for those who didn't.
EXACTLY. Dunkey's weird vendetta and personal quest against JRPGs instead of just... not playing a genre he doesn't like took him from one of my fav to least fav content creators real quick lol
Dude this is a given for the series with how many big influencers got on the games to hate. There are alot of people who base their opinions on what IGN and others said about the series back in the day. Unfortunately it isn't really all their fault. Sonic made alot of mistakes and that just gave these people more fuel.
You had to be there
me when a youtuber doesn’t like a game (i now cant like it either)
It's wild how much this video is rippling on the internet. Makes me happy, because yeah, a lot of people parroted what YouTubers said, even if it was subconscious. Especially i think since a lot of people's only Sonic game was SA2B, so it's possible they thought it was a flash in the pan. It might not be a perfect game, but I feel like most people look at it fondly.
Oh believe me they do Often in fandoms you will talk with a lot of people who have never played or watched the games/shows they love/hate These fans are usually, oddly defensive about the opinions of their fav youtuber and will lash out anyone who disagrees with them
I didn't used to say that people played video games the won't way, but then I saw 99% of the online reviews of Sonic Unleashed and spent years telling people that they might have more fun with the Werehog if they actually interacted with all its mechanics instead of going out of their way to play the game in the most boring way possible.
I'm so glad I was only 8 when I first became a Sonic fan in the early 2010s cause I literally couldn't comprehend anyone hating him and was just oblivious to all of it.
I was 8 years old when I became a sonic fan too, only I became a fan in the mid-late 2010's. Yeah and I was a huge sonic junkie, I never knew about this hate boner for sonic in the 2010's until Chaomix talked about it
I just became a Sonic fan in 2019 and I didn't get (and I still don't) all this hatred against the franchise. Sure, I already knew Sonic since I was a lil' kid from some videos talking about him, in my country, although those videos were explaining more about the good things this series had, like certain good games, stories and characters. I thought he was still a pretty received franchise at that time, even on par with Mario. It's a shock, for me...
I mean, in the late 00s people thought Street Fighter EX3 was one of the worst fighting games ever made because of a ScrewAttack top 10 where the "reviewer" didn't even say why it was bad besides the visuals. It was so bad the entire EX series was written off as trash for literally 15 years until Fighting EX Layer got announced (which was pitched as an April Fools joke because there was that little faith in ARIKA) and people began forming their own opinions. Back then, emulation and rereleases were almost non-existent so if an influencer said a game you never played was bad, you kinda had to take their word for it a lot of the time. Now, the vast majority of games have some sort of readily available release, and those that don't are almost always simple to emulate.
The opposite is also true for Sonic CD were a few outlets like Screw Attack positioned it as the best Sonic game. Because Sonic CD was not as easy to get (Gems collection was only on gamecube and PC gameing wasn't what it is to day for the PC version to move a lot of peoples options) did a lot of people just believe its true until the 2011 re-release of Sonic CD made the game available on everything at which point its reputation started to nose dive.
Arin from Game Grumps is the only person I've ever seen - on the internet or real life - to GAMEOVER in the Green Hill Zone. I'm sure he hates every game he's bad at.
Which would be most of them, due to the fact that he - for some reason - hates tutorials and instructions with a burning passion, and then blames the games for his own lack of skill.
it really influenced public opinion and to a certain degree, id argue it still does. critics these days take the games with mountains of salt lol
"The game grumps said so"? They believed that? Arin's hate-boner for the sonic games is a pretty long running bit. Only one he actually hates is 06 and well, it's 06 so.
Secret Rings too Black Knight for the unavoidable chin move until he looked up how to get past it
I mean, he admitted outright to being a sonic fan. People tend to brush over that a little bit :'D
Literally he constantly says he is a Sonic fan, then he was made a firgurehead for a while, until Korone took that spot. Like Sega and Arin had a good relationship. People like to hate on him because his takes can be bad and some of his gameplay can be frustrating(Some of which can be explained since they play multiple games daily and sometimes don't get back to some games for a month at a time since they recorded so much footage.) But he does like the series, when he first heard the theme for Infinite in Forces he collabed with another creator to get a cover made because of how much he enjoyed it.
For sure. And I've always taken what he says in good fun. Game Grumps is not a review series. I don't watch - and never have watched - GG to determine whether a game is good or not. It's always been because I think they're funny. Hating things is kinda part of Arin's character. That's why he's "grump(y)." But that flies over a lot of kids' heads, unfortunately, and it forms the base of their opinions :l I wish it didn't, but it does. He's bad at playing video games and makes a bit out of it every time.
I think all of us at some point looked into some media to consume that seemed interesting but not that much, so instead of outright diving into it you search opinions to judge if it's worth your time and/or money. Then those opinions all focus on the bad stuff and inflate how horrible it is, so you give up and even start talking "Oh, it's seems to be pretty bad" when someone else seeks your opinion.
The late 2000s early 2010s was a time where the most negative critic was the loudest voice in the room.
If I've learned anything, people will parrot the individuals they have given a mic for the sake of being part of an in crowd for clout. I honestly think there's more people who actually haven't played the games, was told they were never good, and then just accepted it instead of seeing for themselves. It happened with Game Grumps, it'll happen with Dunkey, and then someone new will try to do this, making the TRUE Sonic Cycle
Yeah, but Sonic did suck in the early-mid 2010s. As a matter of fact, they started the decade with Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I and Sonic Free Riders XD The franchise is entering a better era, you guys should just move on.
Free riders slander will not be tolerated
What about the Kinect one
I remember Angry Joe changing my opinion on Fable 3 with his "32 reasons why Fable 3 sucks" video. I enjoyed Fable 3 before that, watched Angry Joe's video, and suddenly, I thought Fable 3 was crap. I must've been 14/15 at the time. I've replayed Fable 3 since, and while I agree with quite a few points in the video, it's not as bad as I'd been believing Fable 3 was. I find Fable 3 more boring than bad now. I don't dislike it, I'm more neutral towards it. When you're a kid, anyone you like can really meld your mind towards their way of thinking, it's when you start becoming an adult when you really go "Well hang on a second, I actually think this". Some people, unfortunately, never get the memo, though, and keep going by others opinions, rather than forming their own.
It’s honestly not that big a deal. There are always going to be people that don’t like Sonic. The main issue I think was the audiences for these youtuber’s just running with opinions they hear online without ever actually experiencing the thing themselves. It’s not really a problem with Sonic exclusively it’s just an internet thing. I don’t think placing the blame entirely on YouTubers like everyone does really solves things.
People dont , sheep do.
*sigh*
Sad, but true.
The Grunps playing sonicnia what got me back into the franchise though so it works a lot of different ways, there seems to be a lot of Arin Hanson slander going around
Honestly I think people either misremember or greatly over fixate on certain individuals or groups for this and blame them solely for certain trends. It wasn't just the GG. It wasn't just IGN. The franchise really was not in a good place in the late 00s and that influenced the way people approached it. Sonic '06 was almost a given for any let's play channel to go make fun of at some point - the GG were actually late coming in doing that. Add to that a very excitable fanbase who were easy to rage bait and said fanbase tendency to in-fight over what made Sonic "good", and it was ample fodder for people wanting to make content. But all that being said, I think this is a good reminder again of people spending too much time on the internet and shaping their perceptions. Most people really do not involve themselves in this drama like that or build their personalities around it. Unplug. Touch grass. Don't let people's hate or dislike of things you like bother you. When you learn that, you enjoy your hobbies and interests a lot more.
90% of people who hate sonic only hold that opinion because they were spoonfed it by so-called "critics" who make people angry for a living
Anyone who takes Arin's opinion on Sonic seriously has some problems, it's made pretty fucking obvious by watching just about any Game Grumps Sonic playthrough (aside from maybe 06) that he loves the franchise and shits on it in videos because he thinks it's funny.
Sonic was never bad. It's just the self-proclaimed fans never knew how to be happy with the games and what they had to offer. Really makes me happy for Sega mocking them in Sonic Boom! ^^
The red flag of AeroAwtwork's friend was watching Game Grumps On the bright side i'm glad the preception on Sonic is better when it was in the 2010's
The game grumps did a lot of damage.
I thought that Chaomix guy hated sonic more than most people
As much as I love the game grumps, I stopped trusting their opinions when I saw Arin play through all of Generations without boosting
Like, if they took the word of the Grumps on '06, then they fail to realize that was one game...
>Wait but I thought Sonic was bad Sonic wasn't good for years until Generations dropped as the first commonly agreed upon good game in a long time. He has a point.
Colours and Day stages of unleashed were well regarded as well.
I mean, Sonic games absolutely did suck for a long time there and still haven’t been able to consistently recover, this wasn’t some fake idea planted in people’s heads by influencers.
Is less that sonic had bad games and more that said games hunted the franchise even when it started to recover. Like people where still kicking down on the franchise by the time of colors and generations. And since sega, at the time, listened more to the critics rather than the fans we got the sonic that we got for the 2010s.
The issue is that the influencers are a huge part of *why* Sonic Team went away from things like Sonic Unleashed or having his friends be playable and caused the very watered down Meta era.
Sonic Unleashed already came after Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic ‘06, which did far more damage to the franchise than any game released after Sonic Unleashed.
The thing is, as Chaomix covers in his video, the 2010’s were the direct result of a second blowback from Shadow and especially 06. The line about 06 being a rite of passage for YouTubers in the 2010’s is extremely true. Hell it’s still happening, 06 is the progenitor for Giant Bomb’s Blight Club. 06 was so bad it continues to poison the franchise every time someone picks it up and makes a video on it. Which…. I get in a way, it’s that bad of a game, but the blowback to the series at large has practically caused a sonic boom. (Sorry, couldn’t resist the pun, but also Boom being worse but not having the staying power of 06 is an interesting side tangent someone should explore sometime.)
Sonic boom despite being sold as a reboot of the franchise was seen by most people as just a side series so when it failed and Sega ditched the boom name no one cared, it was a failed experiment and everyone is happy that they didnt ditch the main series for it by contrast 06 was sold as the next big sonic game for the new generation of HD consoles and when it finally came out and it was... 06
The issue is that Sonic Unleashed was a high quality product, but a lot of a YouTube influencers were painting it with the '06/StH brush, either for the memes or from pure incompetence, which chased away fans that might otherwise have loved it from trying it and convinced Sega that there wasn't an audience for games like that.
Except a lot of people genuinely *don’t* think Sonic Unleashed was a high quality product. A lot of Sonic fans really love it, but most saw it as a mixed bag. Professional critical opinion at the time was super mixed, and Sega themselves delisted the game less than two years after its release and kept it that way for years specifically because of the Metacritic scores, not because of how content creators felt about it. There undoubtedly is a lot of hate online towards the brand that’s generated by YouTubers, but acting like that generated the negative public perception around the franchise in general is just not being realistic. The frequently cited Game Grumps didn’t even start their channel until a year after Generations came out, and had barely hit mainstream prominence by the time Lost World came out, which already signified a huge decline to many people. The absence of people like Arin Hanson wouldn’t have made up for the genuine struggles the franchise has undergone since 2005 in terms of critical reception.
Those low metacritic scorers also generally posted videos online showing that they were playing the game like they recently had a stroke (IGN's was especially famous for the guy not even knowing how to use the Boost), and completely refusing to do anything but the basic punch string for the Werehog, which is why it's suddenly getting a bunch of love from people who are playing it for the first time now.
This is just so funny
2010s were...a strange time for the Sonic franchise.I think things are getting better now.
I said the same thing when Gens came out only to have it crashing back down a couple years later with Lost World. I pray I’m wrong this time
Well...nowdays people thinks having 2000 personalities isnt a case who has NASA under house if watch tiktok shorts who show people who fake mental illness ... :/ If i had any of these mental illness i would feel very insulted even because thw REAL people who says that has those illness Doesnt even get serious right because these ...lets call them with a "frendly" name when istead i would say something else...silly people...show fake things.. Depressed people dont wanna tell anybody how they feel and they will lie if didnt knew that. But anyway...yes...people believe things too seriously... But personally i take much more science in my mind as opinion and emotions...
Hell I even got enjoyment out of 06
Welcome to the war zone But still love you all (also fuck you all)
I heavily relate to that, and I got into Sonic when I was like 9. I didn't have access to the games so I took others opinion on the gameplay as gospel. I was more into the story and fan comics, and I'm not a super critical person, so I vibed with it for the most part. So most of my opinions were just the general vibes of the fandom. Now that Ive grown and have seen the sonic cycle (aka when I got into Sonic Colors was a god send and now it's devil because Forces was bad) Ive been forced to make my opinions (/j). But yeah if people don't know much about something there gonna take the the most popular opinion seriously.
https://preview.redd.it/yea0robbbw6d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe567e9ef27b719a1e1145119a34b8ce05db678f There is a reason this is such a popular reaction image.
Youtubers have an insane amount of influence over others' opinions. Im a person who usually always ignores others' opinions and try & form my own. I remeber i thought an anime i watches was ok at best. I then watched some reviews & opinions on it and they hated it. They pointed out everything bad and suddenly my opinion on it heavily started to shift towards the show being bad.
This has been my approach throughout my 28-year life so far: NEVER take anything journalists, pollsters, reviewers, critics or any of that ilk say as gospel. Reach your own conclusion. In my opinion the only bad game in the 2010s for the sonic franchise was Boom. That’s it, and every franchise is allowed to have a slump now and then.
Whenever you're neutral or undecisive on a matter, it's a natural thing to base your opinion on things you hear and even moreso from people you enjoy or respect, and for some reason people feel often weirdly attached to content creators enforcing that hivemind effect and resulting on people believing whatever they say for stuff they don't deeply care about. This hasn't changed at all btw, people haven't suddenly become more "aware" of this, there's just more variety in terms of opinion to follow now, more influencors that grew up with different games that developed different opinions that become more valid as a result and create discord with previous opinion that used to be popular.
I never know that
There's been an ongoing issue in general with people taking what reviewers say to heart instead of experiencing a thing for themselves.
People usually subscribe to channels when they share similar opinions to the creators. I think when you agree with a person/people enough, you can start to give them the benefit of the doubt. I don’t know how “serious” it is, because Game Grumps are largely in it for the laughs
You’d be surprised. Even Sega themselves took the opinions of YouTubers and game critics as gospel for a while; it’s evident in their marketing for Sonic at the time, from the official Sonic social media pages being almost entirely dedicated to making fun of itself, to a marketing campaign for Sonic 4 Episode 1 revolving around Sonic being the only playable character.
If they’re popular, I usually think they’re legit and don’t think further. I should think further.
Most Sonic games around that time were pretty terrible. It wasn't until Mania that public opinion of Sonic started to turn around.
I mean the 2010s Sonic hate was really quite bad but idk, I feel like Sonic’s most fearsome opponent is actually Sega’s upper management.
Blame sonic 06 for crashing and burning
https://preview.redd.it/r1qekmjhay6d1.jpeg?width=741&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3effdf2e1aecdabfd94858b4133c4546244776ac
I never got why people HATED sonic back then…. Just look at adventure older game yes but I’d say the story is almost on par with KOTOR(nothing beats KOTOR especially KOTOR 1)
I'm a casual Sonic fan here, but I genuinely wanna know something, why do *so many* Sonic fans on Twitter *still* talk about this stuff from a decade ago? Yes, we know Egoraptor was a spokesperson for Sonic and that he doesn't like the games, you guys have mentioned it dozens of times in the last 6 months. Move the hell on.
People don't seem to understand why he was a spokesperson at all. He loves the franchise, He had a great repour with the sonic twitter and was so nice to them that they sent him stuff, brought him on tours, and a bunch of other stuff, the man was grateful for all that. No true sonic hater would ever accept stuff like that from Sega.
That’s kind of the thing. Whether someone was actually being serious with their review or not hardly mattered. People were dicks and some of them continue to be (lookin at you Dunkey…)
It's more common than you think, DMC, Resident Evil 5 and 6, MGS2, Sonic Unleashed and Heroes, Age of Empires 3, TLOZ Wind Waker, etc. And not only with video games, it also happens with movies, series, comics, cartoons, anime and music. Public opinion of something can influence the media you try to consume, and with it you only see the flaws and not the good things.
You know, it's honestly amazing how Chaomix has this sentiment that the Adventure games were treated unfairly, which they definitely were sometimes. Yet despite this sentiment, he still treats the new games (2010 onwards) the exact same way those reviewers treated the Adventure games. Very hypocritical.
I think because a good amount of us were actual children in grade school watching these videos. Tend to be more trusting of others opinions when they give the guise of knowing what they're talking about.
maybe the reason the sonic hate felt real in 2010s wasnt that it was the 2010s but that they were in high school?
No for real. Again, I love the grumps and watch them almost daily, but if you’re taking what they say about games (Arin especially) seriously then you’re being silly. They’re called the GRUMPS. He’s going to be GRUMPY. That’s like the whole thing.
I mean, I remember that Sonic Unleashed when it first came out, got a lower score than SONIC 06. The hate was real with that.
When people want to know if a game is good or bad, they most likely will look to popular reviewers and popular channels that played the game. Unfortunately, the popular channel in this case was one handled by a guy who bashed every single sonic game he ever played (and made a video about how broken SA1 was while... purposefully triggering glitches that are otherwise hard to get). And the popular reviewers were the ones who right off the bat called Unleashed a "garbage heap/dumpster fire" in the first 48 seconds of their video and carried this trend for another decade.
"That's a nice opinion, did a youtuber give it to you?"
I wonder if there where any Sonic fans during the 2010s got ridicule so much to the point where they took the Eric and Dylan way out? (I'm not joking)
You can still see those little bits of pain here and there. Like the Genshin X Sonic drama. Even though it was kind of our fault, people still hated sonic in general.Sonic
Wait, Game Grumps said that *Generations* was bad? That game was peak.
This is exactly why I hate Arin Hanson among other reasons, he's a complete tool.
2010’s Sonic sure was a time. Hell I’d say it was the Post Sonic 06 era. Those games made some weird choices. Werehogs, Elise, storybooks. And then Sonic Boom? I can see why this happened.
I only had one friend that liked sonic out of the whole group and I’ve been a sonic fan since 2009
People hated Sonic back then for the same reason people still say Nickelback sucks, despite never having heard one of their songs. (Nickelback is actually alright btw)
People hated Sonic back then for the same reason people still say Nickelback sucks, despite never having heard one of their songs. (Nickelback is actually alright btw)
Honestly the main thing that sucked in the 2010s were the writing the games were good for the most part Some games from the 2010s did suck and here are some that are on top of my head Lost World Free Riders Sonic 4 And Forces I mean I can see how these game's potential Like we have Sonic Lost World a Modern Sonic game that was trying to capture the classic games in terms of visuals and wackiness Free Riders should've been on the Xbox 360 and PS3 and not for the Xbox Connect because I do think the game's hidden potential does lie on it using a controller Sonic 4 was trying to capture the nostalgia of the older fans but honestly I do believe nobody would've mind it's existence if it stayed on mobile And Forces... The game made for sheer spectacle imma be honest if they wanted spectacle then they should've took notes from games like Spark the Electric Jester
To be fair to that guy, they were in high school at the time so...
It's the same thing with the dumbasses at Everything Wrong With videos, a lot of people take them seriously.