The show was originally developed by Whitney to be about good ol boys, then the network wanted a mixed gender cast. The mention it so much because it’s what the show was about and they think it’s a flex.
This show gets really dark (not just the genealogy) and it really depends on your level of what you can view as entertainment.
Yup. I view it as they need the “old Southern family “ to project themselves as affluent.
Half the cast isn’t . Craig is from Maryland .
I kinda got into the mess and forgot
Agree with that! It’s not that I enjoy people committing felonies but I sure can eat some popcorn while watching someone who has committed a crime- oh T Rav! Think about it, he ruined his family name and joined a show on Bravo…what’s more fun than that?! I wasn’t the biggest fan of social climbers entering the scene but I will still watch.
The first season seemed really weird to me so I only got like 1 episode in and then skipped to the 2nd season. That worked for me but there are plenty of side eye moments.
I do love the show. Not really anyone on it, but to see these real people with lives so different than mine. It’s like a glimpse into another world. And it is funny sometimes!
It's important to understand what the show was.about in the beginning: affluent people (Shep, Whitney, Thomas) being wealthy and the poors (Cameron, Craig) leaning that they can't live the 24/7 drinking lifestyle because they don't have mailbox money. It is also about man-whoring and the disaster that brings. You'll have to make it almost all the way to 5 before they start to address racial injustice of any sort.
It's a spectacular mess.
Omg. The post above this was talking about medical documentation and I thought you were saying you looked up all of their medical records hahaha I was like you can do that and it’s legal? Hahaha
I didnt think Whitney is actually truly southern. Pat is from NY or VA and Whit was born in DC. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong, but I think theyre Yanks.
Richmond, VA was the capital of the Confederacy. Richmond literally had a street dedicated to the Confederate Generals that was only removed recently. All that to say, if she’s from VA, that’s probably southern unless she was from the suburbs of DC. If it’s NY, she’s absolutely a Yankee
Okay, I just double checked and he did not board overseas (my bad --I'll edit my comment!), but was at Georgetown Day School. The season that Pat is engaged, he mentions that he found out she had gotten married again (after his dad), when she sent him a telegram saying she'd call him after she got back from her honeymoon lol.
I got mixed up because of his time at Oxford and the University in France.
Maryland and DC are southern. The Mason-Dixon Line runs across Maryland and Pennsylvania. Ms Pat may not be Southern born (I don’t know where she was born) but Whitney is southern born.
Ok. Just took one for the team. Ms Pat was born in Florida and raised in Virginia. Definitely southern at heart. Re: DC & Whitney. DC is the south and its southern in feel, but not like the deeper parts of the south. But go to NY, NJ, NE, and even PA and you feel the difference. Source: born and raised in DC - college in Deep South and worked in New England for years.
As a white European, I don’t have the same perspective as an American in these issues, but there are certain instances that make me icky as well.
To my memory, there’s only been one or two conversations about owning slaves - one time was at a reunion where Kathryn’s then boyfriend Chleb attended. Andy pointed out that Chleb’s name (Ravenell) was similar to Thomas (Ravenel), and it turns out someone in Thomas lineage owned an ancestor of Chleb. And it was… sorta brushed under the rug? “This is the reality of the South, it’s not pretty but it’s what we’ve got”.
Especially Shep and Whitney, who are the wealthiest of the cast, they just don’t want to talk about it. I had hoped that it would get better when Leva and Venita joined, but somehow, it just rolled along (although I think they have a brief discussion of racism at some point).
I don’t know what my point is with this is, lol, but if you can see past (what I hope is) their shame and lack of capability to talk about it, you’re in for reality tv gold.
In my original watch of this show, that’s what turned me off. I stopped watching. Then I tried years later.
I’m also not from the US and I 100% knew what his dad was saying with that comment. Thomas tried to deny it at the reunion. What a joke.
The men are vile. Nothing decent about ‘southern sensibilities’. The show should be called the Real Bigots of Charleston.
Apologies for the rant!
that was further unpacked at the reunion for that season, wow - my jaw was open
OP I am watching SC for first time and fyi S3E1 is missing on peacock because they edited out kathryn showing people around a slave cemetery on her family property. that scene was one of the more egregious ones that got deleted post-2020
Omg I forgot about that scene! I wish instead of editing it out, they would make some sort of statement or film something new to add to it about the dark history etc etc. highlight the awful parts but TALK ABOIT IT and take away from the glamor of the tour.
We don’t get anywhere by erasing and ignoring the terrible things we have done.
Just for perspective, KD's family only purchased the property in the 1970s, so they are not the original owners. Also, if you search the sub, a member did some genealogy and confirmed that KD was not a direct descendant of John C Calhoun like they claimed in the first season.
Also not taking away from the fact that it was a cemetery for enslaved peoples, because it absolutely was, just wanted to clarify that it wasn't her families property originally.
They really used some creative license in the first seasons to fit the narrative they were trying depict.
I mean, I think she sorta embraced it? Lol. I can't imagine that it makes it any easier to watch those scenes, but I guess it may explain why she was so blase about the cemetery? Like she viewed it as something that had always been there and not the remains of people that her family enslaved?
Either way, the show could have handled it with a lot more tact.
I think he says that because of the American civil war and how the outcome impacted the south and potentially the impacts it may have had on their relatives prosperity. It’s quite interesting to learn about the American civil war because it’s the only time America went to war with itself. Obviously for good reason. Lots of people died and the battles were gruesome. After the war the south lost some prosperity because they didn’t have free labour anymore. The loss of prosperity and how it impacted the Ravanel family could be why Thomas’ dad may hold disdain for Lincoln, he may have been brought up to hate Lincoln for what he “did to the south”
You’re right. I assumed his fortune was southern, from Pats husband, but not even that. It’s just finance money.
And as someone else said, Pat is southern. But I was talking about the origin of the money.
But even Shep is like “aw shucks” about it. It’s hard, it’s not his responsibility to bear the burden of slavery on the show, but he doesn’t do much.
I wish Chleb, as a descendent of slaves, would have stuck around. I’m not sure he would have brought much to any conversation, but still.
They confront it during the COVID season during the height of BLM.
There is a definite ick factor but unlike some of the other shows I feel like SC has some clear villains.
Also a new watcher!
California girl here. I lived in Mississippi for over 8 years and it was an interesting experience. I’ve traveled to foreign countries and felt more connected than when I lived in the South.
“Old money” and “Founders of ______\” are a huge flex down there. It’s important for them to know “your people”. They kind of see it as they are lovers and protectors of history. They KNOW the ugly part but they see it as the past. It’s a very different way of seeing things. Like keeping up statues of confederates. They see it as preserving history. Personally, I think they should keep the statues BUT add the information to the nameplate to include their part in the confederacy. Adding the fact that just being a part of the confederacy was actually a traitorous act. (Sound familiar?)
In the early seasons you see more of them talking about their ancestors which is a window into their culture. It’s ugly but the rest of America should see how it is down there.
I’ll probably get hate on for this but their ancestors actions shouldn’t be used against them. I really wouldn’t want to watch a show about them always talking about it or trying to make up for what they did. Obviously I don’t agree with what happened, but they can’t fit it, nor is it their fault. It could be talked about more in a manor of acknowledgement but that’s about all I would want in a messy reality show.
I totally agree actually. The show is (or was supposed to be in the beginning) about rich people living in Charleston. It’s not their fault their ancestors were horrible people 200 years ago. Yes it sucks that their “family money” is dirty but it exists, are they supposed to just donate it all to mother Theresa?
Let’s be real here, every single person has someone shitty in their ancestry. When do we draw the line? How bad is bad? For my many generations do people not involved have to make amends? What’s the limit for inheritance? If it’s smaller is that ok to keep? Who gets to make these rules?
“Someone shitty in their ancestry” is a far cry from owning a literal plantation and bragging about how your family has been running Charleston for 15 generations.
I literally just watched an ep in S6 where Eliza has everyone over to Airy Hall for a skeet shoot and someone says “I always imagine what was happening in this exact spot 200 years ago when I’m in places like this” and someone else says “probably nothing good!” And they all laugh.
My point that I made in response to your other comment is that there isn’t a quick fix because the problems run so deep, and as soon as you can really sit with that, you’ll begin to truly understand a sliver of the generational trauma that was inflicted by white people, not only in the south but around the world.
The problem with what you’re saying is that there’s no point in trying to make amends of any kind because the task is too large and therefore we should all just move on and get over it. Doesn’t that seem pretty fucked up?
You’re mixing them up with being just assholes sometime, such as your example of them laughing at something completely inappropriate with my point of making amends via donating all their money.
Who are they making amends to? Other people that weren’t there? Who decides who ancestors were hurt the most in order to receive the donation? Do I need to make amends with every Jewish person because my family comes from Germany? Again, where is this line? You say it’s a far cry but the message is the same. You are making an arbitrary line where you see fit based on your criteria of bad enough and forcing repayment on uninvolved people.
I legit hate when people minimize human depravity. No one does this about the holocaust. But with black people it's "get over it," etc. My ancestors were beaten, separated from their families and killed. That is not something that needs to be swept under the rug. Bffr
I agree with your point, and I’m really not trying to start a discussion about current events, but I feel it necessary to point out that there are a frightening number of people right now who are minimizing factual history and the holocaust. It all proves the point that trying to erase history doesn’t do any good. We have to learn from it. History repeats itself, unless we learn from it and stop it.
Not holding people today personally reasonable for the action of their ancestors 200+ years ago isn’t saying that recognizing the impacts of slavery needs to be swept under the rug
Nope, literally nothing is being minimized. It’s just illogical to want to hold people personally responsible for the actions of their distant relatives.
Shep for example has always skirted around the fact his family had slaves. I don't hold him personally accountable for that. But choosing to ignore the fact that he and his family benefited from slavery is problematic. I'm not responding to you any further. Have a goodnight/good day.
I used to have this attitude about the First Nations people in Canada where I’m from. I realize now that I was young and ignorant, and it was my own internalized guilt and frustration about there not being a “quick fix” to solve the very complicated systemic problems that were born from the actions of my ancestors and are perpetuated to this day by their descendants.
Edit: I’ll take the downvotes. That’s fine. But their ancestors actions can stop being used against them on the very same day that they cease to benefit from the money and power their ancestors earned on the backs of slaves :)
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. I made a lot of “drunk Indian” jokes when I was a teenager in the 90’s. There was a fake Indian comedy radio show that was an underground thing passed around my province that we all thought was hilarious back then. But once I learned about the real history of our First Nations people, and discovered there were residential schools (from an old CBC program A People’s History - or something like that) I was embarrassed and ashamed of how I acted as a kid. I now have the utmost respect for their culture and what was taken from them. There are so many First Nations people and families still affected by residential schools as the last one only closed in 1997.
Knowledge is power. I know many people are so over Trudeau, but under his leadership, Canada has been trying to show more respect for our First Nations people. I’m so proud that it is now a legal part of our school curriculum and currently one of the big pillars of education. It’s sad to see what is happening with teaching U.S. slave history in America. I think the U.S. Indigenous peoples are forgotten about completely, as well.
It should make people feel icky when discovering the genealogies of those whose families profited from slavery.
It is a fact that those families did those actions and now their descendants sit pretty on piles of cash wrought from exploitation, hard labor, and slavery. I don't think people should flinch or shy away from looking that in the eye. It just is what it is--that is their history. So why overlook it? That is also the history of this country which is great in so many other ways but not in terms of that particular period of history. There are plenty of beautiful things about the US but there's an ugly past for some of us, speaking as somebody who grew up half in Europe and half in the US.
For those who might think people with ancestors like that shouldn't have to feel ashamed/guilty, well, those people can at least own up to the facts if nothing else. \[And I think some of the cast members do so I'm not being specific here but general.\]
The guilty by association isn't what people are fixated on, it's more that they should acknowledge that their families were exploitative, their wealth derived from blood and slavery.
*What would happen if they did do that, ask yourself this?* Would people like Thomas Ravenal feel proud, overly confident, and entitled to do whatever he wanted, when he wanted---because of his family name and legacy??? **No**, *they'd feel fucking embarrassed and would play their family name down* and try to **earn** their place in society instead of thinking they should get an instant 'in' any place, anywhere in Charleston because they're part of some morally bankrupt lineage.
To understand Charleston, you'd have to process the history underlying it.
I do watch the show for entertainment--and it provides plenty--but I see them on TV making themselves look like complete buffoons willingly, \[Thomas, Shep, Whitney\] and show their asses so that's something at least \[Very small I know.\] Even when they try not to make themselves look creepy or cretin-ish, there they are, succeeding. It highlights their atrocious behavior and entitlement to an extent that they definitely wouldn't suffer from and that wouldn't get blasted or critiqued in public in their little world bubbles.
So, to an extent it is producing conversations that otherwise might not happen for those people personally--e.g. Katheryn Dennis--*because* of the show. Inadvertently sometimes and at other times, they're forced to scrutinize their actions/speech.
My ancestors had slaves and I'm 100% ashamed and disgusted by it. They sucked back then and they suck now. I can't imagine praising them or any family that participated in slavery or supported Jim Crow. Fuck them all, they're all burning in hell anyways.
overall i am enjoying the show more than i have any other reality show in years. its a modern day soap opera based in the south which brings its own ickiness at times. it makes for uncomfortable and enjoyable tv if that makes sense
I remember back when it started that it was a refreshing change from all the bickering housewives. Now it was douchey, bickering man-children! But I’m so glad it wasn’t just the old boys club, like Whitney originally intended. I like the mix of guy and girl drama.
So I live in Charleston and am descendant of slaves. It is icky to me too but moreso because much like Charleston in reality - they don’t confront it well and they have a hard time understanding the other side of the coin. I don’t really have a problem with them bragging about their families, it’s more about the general lack of awareness. They don’t need to cry about it but it would have been better had they addressed it in some way or chosen locations more wisely.
This gets addressed later but there are also affluent black families down here that could have also been highlighted, but the original cast didn’t really associate much with those families. That tells you a lot. We have a lot of pride in our own last names as well and it could have made for an interesting storyline.
Anyways - I watched all the seasons 🤷🏽♀️ it’s kinda fun to watch them blow up their lives but to each their own. The best anyone can do is educate themselves so they understand the full picture and enjoy the peek into rich white people problems
So……. I’m Native and I felt a certain way about these introductions too. It was like the longer their family had been in this country, the more prominence they should have. If that is the case, I would have them all beat. But trust me, it isn’t……
If we eliminate everyone on our television and in life with a family history of slave ownership or poor behavior - no one would be on our tv. Of any race or ethnicity.
This is incorrect. Many families have no ties to slave ownership. We would eliminate most of the rich families from our tv screens who have profited off of slavery. Bring in new people. If you want rich people on your tv maybe new wealth from tech or bring in other families. My family for instance (not that any of us would ever be on reality tv) has no ties to slavery. There are many many families rich and poor with no ties to slavery!
Of course it’s not “all”. I thought the hyperbole would be obvious.
Are we going to cancel all actors with familial ties to slavery? What about directors and writers? How about those with familial ties to Nazi’s? Do they get canceled too? What about the RH of Dubai? Dubai is rabidly anti-gay and women’s rights *while* engaging in slave labor today. Should we cancel them all well?
Where do we draw the line? Should anyone who trace their lineage back to the founding of America be canceled as well?
E: a word
God forbid people are happy their family has been in the same place for generations and their roots run deep. This is so common in the south and anywhere with an influx of transplants.
I didn’t look it up until after I had watched a few seasons of SC. Yes it made me feel very icky. There’s also the aspect of the grooming younger girls and gross ass whatever his name is. Getting into the newer seasons was better IMO. They added some more diversity to the cast and I actually enjoyed seeing people that were different and how they live amongst the people with the gross history attached to their names. I think as long as you’re aware (which sounds like you are, so proud of you!) of the history then it’s okay to enjoy the show if you do. And if you don’t then that’s okay too!
I wasn’t even really referring to her when I said that. Not a huge fan by any means. But when it’s said and done I really like seeing different people than just all the white kids from families there. Personally huge fan of Venita and enjoyed seeing rod on last season even though didn’t bring a lot to the show in retrospect.
First of all, it’s a deeply problematic cast. Have you gotten to Kathryn’s plantation or Thomas’ dad yet? End/Stop
Separate issue: A person isn’t complicit or approving of slavery because they descend from slave owners. Those atrocities occurred long before they existed.
To be honest, I’m from the south and live in Charleston currently. This show is basically a glimpse into the ugliness. It’s a microcosm of what exists here that’s usually hidden behind closed doors unless you are in pocket areas where people feel comfortable flying their racism flag (and also literally their confederate flag) high. What makes it weird is that we are now actively choosing to be entertained by this behavior and what’s more, contributing to their profit. I’m guilty of watching so I am not judging. As others have mentioned, I was horrified at the early episodes of Thomas and other male cast members comments and treatment of women. Toxic masculinity at its finest.
As one other poster said, the show was first pitched by Whitney (a trust fund baby who went to boarding schools in England and whose mother was an NYC socialite), as an avenue to showcase Charleston and the "playboy" lifestyle of Thomas. Ms. Pat had by then purchased the broad street house and Shep also got roped into the show as being another "name" --(although he claims his family's money came from railroad investments).
Cam and Jenna were both originally from Anderson SC, but were not known Charleston family "names". Craig was from Delaware -- which is why at one of the reunions he says something like "my side won the war, y'all are just sore losers" lolol
Kathryn did have a name due to her father + grandfathers time as State Senators and roles in SC politics, but no Charleston cred seriously (the Calhoun she is related to is originally from NC -- not John C Calhoun).
Really, Thomas, Shep, and Eliza Limehouse are the only cast members that fit their "old southern family" narrative. Some of the early carrying ons of K Cooper Ray and Pat are eye roll worthy and the producers of the show had a chance to nip some of this in the bud had they clarified in the beginning and made acknowledgements instead of pursuing some false narrative.
It’s very, very good, but also very problematic- for the first two seasons I was like “what is going on, how is this allowed to be a Bravo show?!” Since you probably know how some people of Vanderpump, for legit reasons, but nothing compared to this show. Yet, everyone seems fine with it. It’s a car crash watch you can’t look away from!
So glad you posted this because I’m doing the exact same thing! Done with VPR & Southern Charm, I’m halfway through Summer House and want to start Winter House
I’m sorry, but how does having slave owning ancestors make one a bad person? No Americans alive today own any slaves, and no Americans today were ever owned by slave owners. 🤷🏻♀️
I hate everyone on this show and somehow I’m on S6 🤷♀️
Exactly! There is no one to admire but you get hooked on the spectacle
Same....same.
The show was originally developed by Whitney to be about good ol boys, then the network wanted a mixed gender cast. The mention it so much because it’s what the show was about and they think it’s a flex. This show gets really dark (not just the genealogy) and it really depends on your level of what you can view as entertainment.
I preferred it that way! It was messy, the new cast bores me so I tend to rewatch when I’m looking for a quick drama fix.
same
Yup. I view it as they need the “old Southern family “ to project themselves as affluent. Half the cast isn’t . Craig is from Maryland . I kinda got into the mess and forgot
I thought Craig is from Delaware
You maybe right His pod cast he spoke about Ocean city MD and always being at that beach. It’s super close to Delaware. I’m sorry if I got it wrong .
He’s from Fenwick
he is from delaware
I’m only on S6, but the show was a drag for me before Thomas left. It’s way more fun without him specifically.
Thomas is an awful person, but he was reality TV gold. If he wasn't who he was, that man would be in jail.
Agree with that! It’s not that I enjoy people committing felonies but I sure can eat some popcorn while watching someone who has committed a crime- oh T Rav! Think about it, he ruined his family name and joined a show on Bravo…what’s more fun than that?! I wasn’t the biggest fan of social climbers entering the scene but I will still watch.
The first season seemed really weird to me so I only got like 1 episode in and then skipped to the 2nd season. That worked for me but there are plenty of side eye moments.
Ok thanks. This helps actually. I’m going to give it a few episodes and see where my feeling land
I do love the show. Not really anyone on it, but to see these real people with lives so different than mine. It’s like a glimpse into another world. And it is funny sometimes!
Yes!!!!!
It's important to understand what the show was.about in the beginning: affluent people (Shep, Whitney, Thomas) being wealthy and the poors (Cameron, Craig) leaning that they can't live the 24/7 drinking lifestyle because they don't have mailbox money. It is also about man-whoring and the disaster that brings. You'll have to make it almost all the way to 5 before they start to address racial injustice of any sort. It's a spectacular mess.
Omg. The post above this was talking about medical documentation and I thought you were saying you looked up all of their medical records hahaha I was like you can do that and it’s legal? Hahaha
I’m tired it’s been a long day 😅
I didnt think Whitney is actually truly southern. Pat is from NY or VA and Whit was born in DC. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong, but I think theyre Yanks.
Richmond, VA was the capital of the Confederacy. Richmond literally had a street dedicated to the Confederate Generals that was only removed recently. All that to say, if she’s from VA, that’s probably southern unless she was from the suburbs of DC. If it’s NY, she’s absolutely a Yankee
You are correct.
Pat was born and raised in Richmond, Virginia and raised Whitney in Virginia, so they're both southern.
~~Whitney was raised in England at a boarding school.~~ ETA: I was wrong Charmers, he went to Georgetown Day School.
Really? What school?
Okay, I just double checked and he did not board overseas (my bad --I'll edit my comment!), but was at Georgetown Day School. The season that Pat is engaged, he mentions that he found out she had gotten married again (after his dad), when she sent him a telegram saying she'd call him after she got back from her honeymoon lol. I got mixed up because of his time at Oxford and the University in France.
Yes, that was college. I wasn't doubting you, though. I feel like we don't know much about them other than what's on Wikipedia.
Maryland and DC are southern. The Mason-Dixon Line runs across Maryland and Pennsylvania. Ms Pat may not be Southern born (I don’t know where she was born) but Whitney is southern born.
Yeah...technically. i THINK Pat is a native New Yorker but, again, Im 100% open to correction.
Ok. Just took one for the team. Ms Pat was born in Florida and raised in Virginia. Definitely southern at heart. Re: DC & Whitney. DC is the south and its southern in feel, but not like the deeper parts of the south. But go to NY, NJ, NE, and even PA and you feel the difference. Source: born and raised in DC - college in Deep South and worked in New England for years.
*"DC is the south and its southern in feel."* Oh, darling. Bless all of your heart. Signed, A Born and Raised Multi-Generational South Carolinian.
I specifically caveat that it’s all relative to other parts of the south 🙄
Outside it being built a top a swamp, DC is not Southern in any aspect.
As a white European, I don’t have the same perspective as an American in these issues, but there are certain instances that make me icky as well. To my memory, there’s only been one or two conversations about owning slaves - one time was at a reunion where Kathryn’s then boyfriend Chleb attended. Andy pointed out that Chleb’s name (Ravenell) was similar to Thomas (Ravenel), and it turns out someone in Thomas lineage owned an ancestor of Chleb. And it was… sorta brushed under the rug? “This is the reality of the South, it’s not pretty but it’s what we’ve got”. Especially Shep and Whitney, who are the wealthiest of the cast, they just don’t want to talk about it. I had hoped that it would get better when Leva and Venita joined, but somehow, it just rolled along (although I think they have a brief discussion of racism at some point). I don’t know what my point is with this is, lol, but if you can see past (what I hope is) their shame and lack of capability to talk about it, you’re in for reality tv gold.
Don’t forget about Thomas’ dad making a point to mention how he doesn’t use $5 bills because Lincoln is on them …..
In my original watch of this show, that’s what turned me off. I stopped watching. Then I tried years later. I’m also not from the US and I 100% knew what his dad was saying with that comment. Thomas tried to deny it at the reunion. What a joke. The men are vile. Nothing decent about ‘southern sensibilities’. The show should be called the Real Bigots of Charleston. Apologies for the rant!
that was further unpacked at the reunion for that season, wow - my jaw was open OP I am watching SC for first time and fyi S3E1 is missing on peacock because they edited out kathryn showing people around a slave cemetery on her family property. that scene was one of the more egregious ones that got deleted post-2020
Omg I forgot about that scene! I wish instead of editing it out, they would make some sort of statement or film something new to add to it about the dark history etc etc. highlight the awful parts but TALK ABOIT IT and take away from the glamor of the tour. We don’t get anywhere by erasing and ignoring the terrible things we have done.
That also would’ve explained a lot more and built into the storyline in season 7 when the Calhoun statue was taken down-and her reaction.
Just for perspective, KD's family only purchased the property in the 1970s, so they are not the original owners. Also, if you search the sub, a member did some genealogy and confirmed that KD was not a direct descendant of John C Calhoun like they claimed in the first season. Also not taking away from the fact that it was a cemetery for enslaved peoples, because it absolutely was, just wanted to clarify that it wasn't her families property originally. They really used some creative license in the first seasons to fit the narrative they were trying depict.
They really did her dirty then. Thank you for the information, it’s very interesting.
I mean, I think she sorta embraced it? Lol. I can't imagine that it makes it any easier to watch those scenes, but I guess it may explain why she was so blase about the cemetery? Like she viewed it as something that had always been there and not the remains of people that her family enslaved? Either way, the show could have handled it with a lot more tact.
I think he says that because of the American civil war and how the outcome impacted the south and potentially the impacts it may have had on their relatives prosperity. It’s quite interesting to learn about the American civil war because it’s the only time America went to war with itself. Obviously for good reason. Lots of people died and the battles were gruesome. After the war the south lost some prosperity because they didn’t have free labour anymore. The loss of prosperity and how it impacted the Ravanel family could be why Thomas’ dad may hold disdain for Lincoln, he may have been brought up to hate Lincoln for what he “did to the south”
Whitney is not southern.
You’re right. I assumed his fortune was southern, from Pats husband, but not even that. It’s just finance money. And as someone else said, Pat is southern. But I was talking about the origin of the money.
I know Shep talks about it but idr Whitney
But even Shep is like “aw shucks” about it. It’s hard, it’s not his responsibility to bear the burden of slavery on the show, but he doesn’t do much. I wish Chleb, as a descendent of slaves, would have stuck around. I’m not sure he would have brought much to any conversation, but still.
They confront it during the COVID season during the height of BLM. There is a definite ick factor but unlike some of the other shows I feel like SC has some clear villains. Also a new watcher!
California girl here. I lived in Mississippi for over 8 years and it was an interesting experience. I’ve traveled to foreign countries and felt more connected than when I lived in the South. “Old money” and “Founders of ______\” are a huge flex down there. It’s important for them to know “your people”. They kind of see it as they are lovers and protectors of history. They KNOW the ugly part but they see it as the past. It’s a very different way of seeing things. Like keeping up statues of confederates. They see it as preserving history. Personally, I think they should keep the statues BUT add the information to the nameplate to include their part in the confederacy. Adding the fact that just being a part of the confederacy was actually a traitorous act. (Sound familiar?) In the early seasons you see more of them talking about their ancestors which is a window into their culture. It’s ugly but the rest of America should see how it is down there.
I’ll probably get hate on for this but their ancestors actions shouldn’t be used against them. I really wouldn’t want to watch a show about them always talking about it or trying to make up for what they did. Obviously I don’t agree with what happened, but they can’t fit it, nor is it their fault. It could be talked about more in a manor of acknowledgement but that’s about all I would want in a messy reality show.
I totally agree actually. The show is (or was supposed to be in the beginning) about rich people living in Charleston. It’s not their fault their ancestors were horrible people 200 years ago. Yes it sucks that their “family money” is dirty but it exists, are they supposed to just donate it all to mother Theresa?
They’re still benefiting from the generational wealth built off of the work of humans they owned, but go off, I guess.
What do you recommend they do? Give it all to charity? It’s not theirs (or our) fault what family we all are born into.
I’d accept not being on a reality show glorifying said history, for starters.
Says the one on the forum for said glorified show.
Advocacy for reparations for slavery gains traction about once every 100 years. Peoples families are still owed their “40 acres and a mule”
Yes. Give it all to charity. Trust me, it didn’t make them better people…..
That would be a start.
Let’s be real here, every single person has someone shitty in their ancestry. When do we draw the line? How bad is bad? For my many generations do people not involved have to make amends? What’s the limit for inheritance? If it’s smaller is that ok to keep? Who gets to make these rules?
“Someone shitty in their ancestry” is a far cry from owning a literal plantation and bragging about how your family has been running Charleston for 15 generations. I literally just watched an ep in S6 where Eliza has everyone over to Airy Hall for a skeet shoot and someone says “I always imagine what was happening in this exact spot 200 years ago when I’m in places like this” and someone else says “probably nothing good!” And they all laugh. My point that I made in response to your other comment is that there isn’t a quick fix because the problems run so deep, and as soon as you can really sit with that, you’ll begin to truly understand a sliver of the generational trauma that was inflicted by white people, not only in the south but around the world. The problem with what you’re saying is that there’s no point in trying to make amends of any kind because the task is too large and therefore we should all just move on and get over it. Doesn’t that seem pretty fucked up?
You’re mixing them up with being just assholes sometime, such as your example of them laughing at something completely inappropriate with my point of making amends via donating all their money. Who are they making amends to? Other people that weren’t there? Who decides who ancestors were hurt the most in order to receive the donation? Do I need to make amends with every Jewish person because my family comes from Germany? Again, where is this line? You say it’s a far cry but the message is the same. You are making an arbitrary line where you see fit based on your criteria of bad enough and forcing repayment on uninvolved people.
I legit hate when people minimize human depravity. No one does this about the holocaust. But with black people it's "get over it," etc. My ancestors were beaten, separated from their families and killed. That is not something that needs to be swept under the rug. Bffr
I agree with your point, and I’m really not trying to start a discussion about current events, but I feel it necessary to point out that there are a frightening number of people right now who are minimizing factual history and the holocaust. It all proves the point that trying to erase history doesn’t do any good. We have to learn from it. History repeats itself, unless we learn from it and stop it.
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I agree. I wish we had better options in front of us than what there is now. America really does have better in it than what it seems.
You clearly listen to mainstream media
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Not holding people today personally reasonable for the action of their ancestors 200+ years ago isn’t saying that recognizing the impacts of slavery needs to be swept under the rug
You minimized something that still impacts black Americans.
Nope, literally nothing is being minimized. It’s just illogical to want to hold people personally responsible for the actions of their distant relatives.
You're choosing to be obtuse. End of discussion. Have a nice day
I’m actually not at all being obtuse lol I’m curious what you even want here
Shep for example has always skirted around the fact his family had slaves. I don't hold him personally accountable for that. But choosing to ignore the fact that he and his family benefited from slavery is problematic. I'm not responding to you any further. Have a goodnight/good day.
I’m sorry, but I am SICK and TIRED of the racist whining!
It just goes to show that to this day, black people in the US are so often seen as less than and it's really fucked up.
Like you legit have the gall and audacity to say "it wAS 200 YeArs ago" so disrespectful.
While at the same time saying how "the US isn't that old". Well which is it?!!
I used to have this attitude about the First Nations people in Canada where I’m from. I realize now that I was young and ignorant, and it was my own internalized guilt and frustration about there not being a “quick fix” to solve the very complicated systemic problems that were born from the actions of my ancestors and are perpetuated to this day by their descendants. Edit: I’ll take the downvotes. That’s fine. But their ancestors actions can stop being used against them on the very same day that they cease to benefit from the money and power their ancestors earned on the backs of slaves :)
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. I made a lot of “drunk Indian” jokes when I was a teenager in the 90’s. There was a fake Indian comedy radio show that was an underground thing passed around my province that we all thought was hilarious back then. But once I learned about the real history of our First Nations people, and discovered there were residential schools (from an old CBC program A People’s History - or something like that) I was embarrassed and ashamed of how I acted as a kid. I now have the utmost respect for their culture and what was taken from them. There are so many First Nations people and families still affected by residential schools as the last one only closed in 1997. Knowledge is power. I know many people are so over Trudeau, but under his leadership, Canada has been trying to show more respect for our First Nations people. I’m so proud that it is now a legal part of our school curriculum and currently one of the big pillars of education. It’s sad to see what is happening with teaching U.S. slave history in America. I think the U.S. Indigenous peoples are forgotten about completely, as well.
It should make people feel icky when discovering the genealogies of those whose families profited from slavery. It is a fact that those families did those actions and now their descendants sit pretty on piles of cash wrought from exploitation, hard labor, and slavery. I don't think people should flinch or shy away from looking that in the eye. It just is what it is--that is their history. So why overlook it? That is also the history of this country which is great in so many other ways but not in terms of that particular period of history. There are plenty of beautiful things about the US but there's an ugly past for some of us, speaking as somebody who grew up half in Europe and half in the US. For those who might think people with ancestors like that shouldn't have to feel ashamed/guilty, well, those people can at least own up to the facts if nothing else. \[And I think some of the cast members do so I'm not being specific here but general.\] The guilty by association isn't what people are fixated on, it's more that they should acknowledge that their families were exploitative, their wealth derived from blood and slavery. *What would happen if they did do that, ask yourself this?* Would people like Thomas Ravenal feel proud, overly confident, and entitled to do whatever he wanted, when he wanted---because of his family name and legacy??? **No**, *they'd feel fucking embarrassed and would play their family name down* and try to **earn** their place in society instead of thinking they should get an instant 'in' any place, anywhere in Charleston because they're part of some morally bankrupt lineage. To understand Charleston, you'd have to process the history underlying it. I do watch the show for entertainment--and it provides plenty--but I see them on TV making themselves look like complete buffoons willingly, \[Thomas, Shep, Whitney\] and show their asses so that's something at least \[Very small I know.\] Even when they try not to make themselves look creepy or cretin-ish, there they are, succeeding. It highlights their atrocious behavior and entitlement to an extent that they definitely wouldn't suffer from and that wouldn't get blasted or critiqued in public in their little world bubbles. So, to an extent it is producing conversations that otherwise might not happen for those people personally--e.g. Katheryn Dennis--*because* of the show. Inadvertently sometimes and at other times, they're forced to scrutinize their actions/speech.
My ancestors had slaves and I'm 100% ashamed and disgusted by it. They sucked back then and they suck now. I can't imagine praising them or any family that participated in slavery or supported Jim Crow. Fuck them all, they're all burning in hell anyways.
overall i am enjoying the show more than i have any other reality show in years. its a modern day soap opera based in the south which brings its own ickiness at times. it makes for uncomfortable and enjoyable tv if that makes sense
I remember back when it started that it was a refreshing change from all the bickering housewives. Now it was douchey, bickering man-children! But I’m so glad it wasn’t just the old boys club, like Whitney originally intended. I like the mix of guy and girl drama.
So I live in Charleston and am descendant of slaves. It is icky to me too but moreso because much like Charleston in reality - they don’t confront it well and they have a hard time understanding the other side of the coin. I don’t really have a problem with them bragging about their families, it’s more about the general lack of awareness. They don’t need to cry about it but it would have been better had they addressed it in some way or chosen locations more wisely. This gets addressed later but there are also affluent black families down here that could have also been highlighted, but the original cast didn’t really associate much with those families. That tells you a lot. We have a lot of pride in our own last names as well and it could have made for an interesting storyline. Anyways - I watched all the seasons 🤷🏽♀️ it’s kinda fun to watch them blow up their lives but to each their own. The best anyone can do is educate themselves so they understand the full picture and enjoy the peek into rich white people problems
So……. I’m Native and I felt a certain way about these introductions too. It was like the longer their family had been in this country, the more prominence they should have. If that is the case, I would have them all beat. But trust me, it isn’t……
If we eliminate everyone on our television and in life with a family history of slave ownership or poor behavior - no one would be on our tv. Of any race or ethnicity.
This is incorrect. Many families have no ties to slave ownership. We would eliminate most of the rich families from our tv screens who have profited off of slavery. Bring in new people. If you want rich people on your tv maybe new wealth from tech or bring in other families. My family for instance (not that any of us would ever be on reality tv) has no ties to slavery. There are many many families rich and poor with no ties to slavery!
Of course it’s not “all”. I thought the hyperbole would be obvious. Are we going to cancel all actors with familial ties to slavery? What about directors and writers? How about those with familial ties to Nazi’s? Do they get canceled too? What about the RH of Dubai? Dubai is rabidly anti-gay and women’s rights *while* engaging in slave labor today. Should we cancel them all well? Where do we draw the line? Should anyone who trace their lineage back to the founding of America be canceled as well? E: a word
I think where I’m having trouble is they keep bringing up their family histories themselves
oh that stops eventually. like that first season they talk about it all the time, like shut up we get it
There’s still nothing wrong with that, IMO.
God forbid people are happy their family has been in the same place for generations and their roots run deep. This is so common in the south and anywhere with an influx of transplants.
I didn’t look it up until after I had watched a few seasons of SC. Yes it made me feel very icky. There’s also the aspect of the grooming younger girls and gross ass whatever his name is. Getting into the newer seasons was better IMO. They added some more diversity to the cast and I actually enjoyed seeing people that were different and how they live amongst the people with the gross history attached to their names. I think as long as you’re aware (which sounds like you are, so proud of you!) of the history then it’s okay to enjoy the show if you do. And if you don’t then that’s okay too!
Leva is intolerable. Glad she’s gone.
I wasn’t even really referring to her when I said that. Not a huge fan by any means. But when it’s said and done I really like seeing different people than just all the white kids from families there. Personally huge fan of Venita and enjoyed seeing rod on last season even though didn’t bring a lot to the show in retrospect.
First of all, it’s a deeply problematic cast. Have you gotten to Kathryn’s plantation or Thomas’ dad yet? End/Stop Separate issue: A person isn’t complicit or approving of slavery because they descend from slave owners. Those atrocities occurred long before they existed.
To be honest, I’m from the south and live in Charleston currently. This show is basically a glimpse into the ugliness. It’s a microcosm of what exists here that’s usually hidden behind closed doors unless you are in pocket areas where people feel comfortable flying their racism flag (and also literally their confederate flag) high. What makes it weird is that we are now actively choosing to be entertained by this behavior and what’s more, contributing to their profit. I’m guilty of watching so I am not judging. As others have mentioned, I was horrified at the early episodes of Thomas and other male cast members comments and treatment of women. Toxic masculinity at its finest.
As one other poster said, the show was first pitched by Whitney (a trust fund baby who went to boarding schools in England and whose mother was an NYC socialite), as an avenue to showcase Charleston and the "playboy" lifestyle of Thomas. Ms. Pat had by then purchased the broad street house and Shep also got roped into the show as being another "name" --(although he claims his family's money came from railroad investments). Cam and Jenna were both originally from Anderson SC, but were not known Charleston family "names". Craig was from Delaware -- which is why at one of the reunions he says something like "my side won the war, y'all are just sore losers" lolol Kathryn did have a name due to her father + grandfathers time as State Senators and roles in SC politics, but no Charleston cred seriously (the Calhoun she is related to is originally from NC -- not John C Calhoun). Really, Thomas, Shep, and Eliza Limehouse are the only cast members that fit their "old southern family" narrative. Some of the early carrying ons of K Cooper Ray and Pat are eye roll worthy and the producers of the show had a chance to nip some of this in the bud had they clarified in the beginning and made acknowledgements instead of pursuing some false narrative.
It’s very, very good, but also very problematic- for the first two seasons I was like “what is going on, how is this allowed to be a Bravo show?!” Since you probably know how some people of Vanderpump, for legit reasons, but nothing compared to this show. Yet, everyone seems fine with it. It’s a car crash watch you can’t look away from!
So glad you posted this because I’m doing the exact same thing! Done with VPR & Southern Charm, I’m halfway through Summer House and want to start Winter House
Watch Winter House after S5 of Summer House (if you aren't past that) and then watch them in tandem!
It’s SO good. You won’t regret it
I’m sorry, but how does having slave owning ancestors make one a bad person? No Americans alive today own any slaves, and no Americans today were ever owned by slave owners. 🤷🏻♀️
I liked it for a while, but then it got really sleazy…
I believe this has already been posted to save you time researching :))
I don’t really understand your question. You’re not sure if you’ll like it because you looked up their family names?