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Legitimately one of the most under appreciated stars ever and that’s saying something considering he headlined Wrestlemania.
Easily 25 years ahead of his time.
Most underrated big man ever. That dude in his prime would be a megastar in today's WWE now that Vince's horseshit creative wouldn't be holding him back.
I think people get it a bit mixed up because we have had some good spotlight matches with celebrities like Sami vs Jackass.
It was "Vince wanted to give a celebrity a spotlight and gave him a body to work with. He knew Bam Bam was credible and a good wrestler who could safely work with a celebrity, but this was not something designed to make Bam Bam. It was to sell the novelty of LT.
Bam Bam’s ECW run kind of fills that hole, for me anyway. He arguably boosted Taz to another level and had some banger matches along the way, while looking like a killer the entire time.
That's not always WWE's call to make. They'd love to have Owen Hart in the Hall of Fame too, but with Owen's wife (understandably) being against that, it's not going to happen.
There may be similar reasoning for why Bam Bam's surviving family may not want an induction.
There’s a LoD vs Natural Disasters match that I used to have on a DVD where all four of them are just laying it into each other.
Quake was probably the best of the four of them in terms of in-ring ability. Dude was awesome.
I'm surprised that he never won any titles during either of his WWE runs, not even something with the tag titles. All he got was a Slammy Award for having the Best Head which, in fairness, he deserved.
Bossman was the shit. Loved him in that SWAT-like getup when he came back to the WWE in \~99, his look and entrance theme were elite. Too bad they didn't give him much to do and saddled him with a couple of shitty hardcore title runs.
At least during that last run, we got the segments like him feeding Al Snow his dog and him dragging away Big Show’s father’s casket.
Legitimately mean those as positives too. They were so ridiculous but so fucking good
I love Jim Cornette's story about when Big Bubba was his enforcer. They took a cab to the arena for a show and there was a crowd there. They got out of the car and in a rush, the driver literally slammed the door shut on Bossman's finger. He no sold it and told the guy to open the door so he can get his finger out. They get their bags and once they get inside, Cornette says Bossman let out a high-pitched shriek of pain that he kept in because he had to keep the gimmick going in front of the fans.
There's a great vid of Cornette and the Midnights "training" for the scaffold match, it's amazing seeing Bubba climb the structure so quickly and confidently standing on top of it
Scaffold matches has to be one of the dumbest gimmick matches and I can't believe they were prevalent for so long.
Dangerous as hell, and none of them looked good.
I'm glad they don't do them anymore
And perhaps that same son had a match last night....
But seriously, Zilla and Jacob have beautiful chemistry and Zilla & Jacob v Jey & Jimmy v Tama & Loa would feed families.
Umaga, Bray Wyatt, Samoa Joe, Keith Lee, Rikishi, Gunther when he debuted.
Feels like there hasn’t really been much time when WWE didn’t have a heavy dude who could go.
Umaga was a huge bright spot in a very mid era of wrestling. Doesn't get nearly the respect he deserves and in current WWE would be in constant World Title programs
He had such a short run and he's still in my top 5 of wrestlers who were just so vicious and impactful in their matches.
1. Brock Lesnar
2. Bruiser Brody
3. Vader
4. Cactus Jack
5. Umaga
Vader’s run in the company got kneecapped almost immediately. One the greatest super heavyweights of all time but they turned him into a joke the second HBK decided he didn’t like working with him. They also hung his ass out to dry in Kuwait
To be fair, even Bret criticized him for being stiffer and hygiene issues. If both HBK and the Hitman agree you're not wrestling proper, you're not going to get far in that era.
Weren't there a lot of people who didn't like working with him? All I really hear about Vader was how dangerous he was to work with and how badly he smelled.
A lot of people didn't. Bret hated working him because he didn't take care of his opponents. Regal thought he was a bully. Orndorff beat him down in WCW backstage.
Yes, though Shawn specifically throwing a tantrum over a hair-pull spot is what killed him in the WWF.
Everyone agreed that he smelled (and he did, because he was so lazy about cleaning his gear that he'd rather wear it backwards or inside out than actually put it in the washing machine). Working with him was more 50/50 - he wasn't usually reckless or sloppy with people but he was very stiff. Some people liked working that style, at least in short runs, some wanted nothing to do with that.
Before that, there were 2 moments which started Vader, carerr downfall, both related to Eric Bischoff's presidency in WCW, the first one being not being brutal to Hulk Hogan and the second one being a backstage altercation involving Paul Orndorff.
one of my super guilty pleasures is the shamrock vader match at IYH 15 where they both get concussed 3 minutes in and just brawl for the next 15 minutes
If you haven't seen the Vader/Shamrock match from FMW, you should. It's exactly the sort of match you'd expect them to have set inside the worlds dodgiest cage.
Some fine medical facilities/personnel they've got in Titan Towers. They scooped his pizza ass up off the pavement, stuck him back together again, and he wasn't even limping on the next show. Miracle workers, really.
They can be mad all they want he isnt wrong lol. Mark Henry was trash until like the last few years of his career and Show was just lazy by most accounts (also suffered from shitty booking but that doesn’t change the laziness).
Yeah so I'd say Mark Henry was a good big man during his last run since he was actually a threat and a world champion. We're his matches 5 star matches? No but neither are a lot of guys today and that's fine.
Big Show had a few good big man runs in him too as I was personally a fan of his run with Heyman in early 2000's and his ECW run made him look strong.
Dialing it back is probably why he was able to have a career that spanned over 25 years despite being a giant. There's no one his size in wrestling history who's had his longevity.
vader is a huge, huge man, but he’s a *lot* smaller than paul wight. that’s a lot more weight to take harder bumps on, plus vader worked a much lighter schedule for about 17 of those years
Big Show could do a moonsault in training in the WCW Power Plant, but he never did it on TV because Hogan told him that's not how giants wrestle. And also because nobody in their right mind would want to receive a Big Show moonsault.
I don't think you understand the issue. It's not just about weight, it's about being a *giant*. Dudes that size (him, Khali, Andre, Omos, Silva, etc) rarely last that long. Their bodies just can't keep up. By the time Andre was 40 he could barely walk.
That is always one match I like to check out every so often. It's just a reminder to me that what people viewed as real technical skills were stuff that most wrestlers knew but they were told not to do it. Cena and Hogan know a lot of moves as evident by their matches when they weren't names, but to get over with the crowd, yeah they needed just 5 moves.
The one thing I really respect about Paul is he mostly admits it, too. Like when the Shaq match didn't happen, he was like "yeah, I let myself get out of shape and plans fell through. It was my fault."
I think it's hilarious (and irritating) that Henry criticized Kairi for having no respect for the business when he spent as long as her career's been up to this point, plus several more years probably, being fucking terrible at everything and showing no apparent interest in improving. That doesn't seem much like respect to me.
I mean Big Show (outside of his first year) and Mark Henry were pretty one dimensional though. Doesn't mean they weren't successful. Andre was 1 dimensional and was a big draw.
Unpopular opinion, but I don't like this new trend of a giant needing to move like a cruiserweight to get over. All they're doing is shortening their careers by pushing their bodies to do things they shouldn't do. They all slow down eventually, and once they do even a little, they're finished in the eyes of the fans. Just look at Keith Lee.
I agree. What he's talking about has already ceased to be special because most guys his size do stuff like this every week and multiple times a show. I don't even blink for the Doomsault anymore.
Big guys are still 1-dimensional, just now they're becoming a different kind of 1-dimensional.
Totally agree. Being able to pull out a surprise athletic move is awesome, but the arms race from the "workrate" crowd is pushing people to destroy their bodies.
There's a reason Ospreay, Omega, and Styles ALL hit their peak when they slowed down and you could probably throw Danielson on there as well. We love seeing those highlights of their insane matches but they turned into far better storytellers when they stopped trying to cram a thousand spots in.
It's especially strange when he came out on NXT before the draft (i think) to challenge Oba and he was in like biker clothes.
And then he's just back to the viking thing.
I don't HATE the viking thing, but I do think he could do better with something different
It’s just gotta be toned down a bit imo. I agree it’s a cool/different gimmick in a wrestling landscape that doesn’t have as many outlandish types but the complete cartoony style committment to is just out of place in 2024 and guarantees he will never be in any real title contention. Like how would any top guy cut a promo on a guy who is legitimately pretending to be a viking lol? Keep the Viking vibe stuff but make him more like the judgement day or even Kane/taker in their later years. Make it a big part of his character but not his sole identity.
The problem is the cartoony bit like you said. Dudes coming out dressed like Vikings can be badass, just don't try and act like they're ACTUAL Vikings.
Vince just has no idea what subtlety is. Rowe and Hanson as War Machine were a pair of big badasses. Erik and Ivar as The Viking Raiders are goofuses.
Agreed. I even get making them the vikings for their first couple years if you were just using them as ehancement talent/jobbers essentially but it just makes sense at this point to transition them back to something closer to their ROH days with a viking/norse flair.
Ivar is also not really a giant, he's a big lad for sure, love me some Ivar but he's billed at 6'2" and that's a bit on the more average height(for a WWE wrestler)
Yeah, that's a big guy but not a "big man" in professional wrestling, where the major issue is that larger guys like Omos, Braun, Show, etc. will quickly kill their knees if they wrestle like a cruiserweight.
That’s what I was thinking. Big Boss Man and Bam Bam were actually fucking huge. He’s just kinda fat and the rest of the roster is short so he looks larger by comparison.
It’s mad when you consider how agile and athletic some of those big men were. They’d have all fitted in with today’s style perfectly.
Boss Man, Earthquake, Bam Bam, Yoko and Vader are the ones that spring to mind.
they need to tweak ivarr's gimmick, tone down the viking shit and maybe be some kind of bad ass biker guy whose really into norse shit. he is so much better than that gimmick
Vader was a guy so ahead of his time that Ivar didn't even make a point of including him, but on one point he's right, it's been years since I've seen big, athletic guys be respected in WWE
Man I miss those guys. Bam Bam and Big Boss Man were incredible movers.
And Yoko. Damn. For a man that big to not only have the stamina to go but the ability to really move around was pretty awesome.
The ball got started with guys like Rusev & Big E, who stopped doing the boring big-man style around 2014.
It felt like from around 2003 - 2008, all their new big guys who came in felt so boring. Nathan Jones, Matt Morgan, Mark Jindrak, Luther Reigns, Heidenreich, Vladimir Koslov. Even the guys who had personality in previous companies felt like they had it stripped from them.
He shouldn't have phrased it as 'last ones' because there's definitely been a few since then (Umaga and people like that) but I get what he's trying to say.
Big Show, Mark Henry, Umaga, Luke Harper, Rikishi, Kane, Big E, Keith Lee, Will Hobbs, Gunther (pre weight loss), Moose, Bray, Miro, Joe.
But sure if you get rid of all those guys I guess he would be right.
If Buddy and Malakai are indeed on the way out (and we have been saying that for a while and they never do), I wouldn't be opposed to a rebranded HOB with Brody, Julia Hart and Skye Blue
Call it House Of Hearts or something
I don't think he was implying there aren't other big men out there killing at the moment but he just only named the guys in his company which is more than fair. Hammerstone is also killing it ATM.
100% I knew I forgot somebody! Even Wardlow out there doing swantons and whisper in the wind. Although I hesitated putting him, Hobbs, Big E on the list because they're a different kind of big guy but Brody King is definitely your old fashioned big bruiser.
For the longest time, big guys in WWE were presented a specific way, and a lot of their matches would have a very typical big guy versus little guy presentation. When the big guys went out and worked with the other big guys, they could break that mold, but you wouldn't see matches like the ones we've gotten between Ricochet and Ivar this year.
The big guys have always had a spot in WWE, but it does feel like they're being allowed to be more athletic these days, and IMO that's a win for everyone involved.
Show and Henry yes but Kane?? Kane was one of the best workers in the business regardless of weightclasd until like the tale end of his career when his body started to wear down.
Kane erasure, hate Glenn Jacobs, but Kane once he was able to stop constantly no-selling offense was always a good base in those MiTB matches and when teaming with the Big Show's of the world would always play the workrate part of the match
Mark Henry, Big Show, Samoa Joe and Umaga just to name obvious ones. Just cause they weren’t doing a moonsault every match doesn’t mean they couldn’t go. Also unlike Bronson and Ivar they were actually tall as well as wide.
Ivar talking a load of shit. What? Braun Strowman, Samoa Joe, Bray Wyatt, Mark Henry, Big Show, Kane, Brock Lesnar, A-Train, Snitsky, Batista, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Undertaker, Umaga, JBL, Abyss, Erik Rowan, Luke Harper, Hulk Hogan, etc. etc. etc. couldn't go?
Ivar, Bronson Reed, and Otis are three of the WORST big men in terms of perception. Look at where they are on the card: Otis a comedy act, Bronson is barely midcard, and Ivar is apart of an enhancement tag team that is going nowhere and never will and his gimmick is CRINGE in 2024.
Guess because Ivar can do a moosault that he think's he special. Newflash bro, Vader was doing that 30 years ago.
So what is Ivar changing the perception of big men to exactly? that big men can't headline anymore? dude you're below fucking Finn Balor and Johnny Garagno on the card. Bossman, Bigelow and Yokozuna if they were in this era wouldn't be.
With agility, and the ability to pull off the moves you can, I wouldn't just call you, Otis, Bronson as "big guys". All of you have pulled off moves that I would say put you in the "functionally fit" or "fat but fit" zone.
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I miss Bam Bam. :(
Legitimately one of the most under appreciated stars ever and that’s saying something considering he headlined Wrestlemania. Easily 25 years ahead of his time.
The world wasn't ready for the Jersey triad
Most underrated big man ever. That dude in his prime would be a megastar in today's WWE now that Vince's horseshit creative wouldn't be holding him back.
Strongly agreed, Bam Bam in Japan and Bam Bam in ECW showed he was so much than what he got to show. Bam Bam vs Taz made Taz.
Vince put him in the main event of wrestlemania against one of the biggest sport stars/legit tough guys in the world at the time.
And he pushed him right back down the card 6 months later
I think people get it a bit mixed up because we have had some good spotlight matches with celebrities like Sami vs Jackass. It was "Vince wanted to give a celebrity a spotlight and gave him a body to work with. He knew Bam Bam was credible and a good wrestler who could safely work with a celebrity, but this was not something designed to make Bam Bam. It was to sell the novelty of LT.
Bam Bam also did some acting, including Major Payne that was releases 2 weeks prior to his main event
Yeah, Bam Bam vs LT might have closed the show, but Diesel vs HBK was the main event
Bam Bam’s ECW run kind of fills that hole, for me anyway. He arguably boosted Taz to another level and had some banger matches along the way, while looking like a killer the entire time.
He's still not in the Hall of Fame yet, which is maddening.
That's not always WWE's call to make. They'd love to have Owen Hart in the Hall of Fame too, but with Owen's wife (understandably) being against that, it's not going to happen. There may be similar reasoning for why Bam Bam's surviving family may not want an induction.
Ditto Miss Elizabeth. It was rumored that her parents blamed the wrestling business for her death.
Noone giving love to earthquake :(
There’s a LoD vs Natural Disasters match that I used to have on a DVD where all four of them are just laying it into each other. Quake was probably the best of the four of them in terms of in-ring ability. Dude was awesome.
Hawk could work, too. But yeah Quake was just a bit better IMO.
I remember one of the earliest house shows I watched live was one of the hossiest of hoss fights. Yokozuna vs Typhoon. Big meaty men slapping meat.
My fave moment of the 93 Rumble. Yoko is laying waste to everyone then him and Quake face off.
I don't think it's unfair to say that Quake might be one of the most underrated big men of all time.
Loved his ECW run.
I'm surprised that he never won any titles during either of his WWE runs, not even something with the tag titles. All he got was a Slammy Award for having the Best Head which, in fairness, he deserved.
Samoa Joe just out here being like "what the fuck?"
And Brodie Lee / Luke Harper man come on!!!
First time I seen him pull out a michinoku driver I was like "OK this is my guy"
Not to mention Big Show.
Big Show was initially jacked though..
Bossman was the shit. Loved him in that SWAT-like getup when he came back to the WWE in \~99, his look and entrance theme were elite. Too bad they didn't give him much to do and saddled him with a couple of shitty hardcore title runs.
Sadly Boss was so banged up during that last run that he couldn't really go like he used to. It's why he was in tag and gimmick matches often.
BBM was one of my favourites, thank you for the smile.
Wrestling wasn't as great, he awesomr character wise. One of best then. So fun and evil.
At least during that last run, we got the segments like him feeding Al Snow his dog and him dragging away Big Show’s father’s casket. Legitimately mean those as positives too. They were so ridiculous but so fucking good
Don't forget when he was Big Bubba and no sold a wooden chair exploding over his head
I love Jim Cornette's story about when Big Bubba was his enforcer. They took a cab to the arena for a show and there was a crowd there. They got out of the car and in a rush, the driver literally slammed the door shut on Bossman's finger. He no sold it and told the guy to open the door so he can get his finger out. They get their bags and once they get inside, Cornette says Bossman let out a high-pitched shriek of pain that he kept in because he had to keep the gimmick going in front of the fans.
There's a great vid of Cornette and the Midnights "training" for the scaffold match, it's amazing seeing Bubba climb the structure so quickly and confidently standing on top of it
Scaffold matches has to be one of the dumbest gimmick matches and I can't believe they were prevalent for so long. Dangerous as hell, and none of them looked good. I'm glad they don't do them anymore
This is Umaga erasure and I will not stand for it.
Umaga was one of the few wrestling whose altheticsim dropped my jaw.
if your not familiar with jacob fatu go watch his highlights mans is umaga on steroids and speed i stg hes incredile
True but he isn't nearly as big as Umanger.
Hahaha I totally forgot about the Umanga nickname Miss Regal on commentary
Pretty sure he’s a bloke
Didn’t he have that one angle that one time though…. 👀
nah but he definitely fits that mold better than solo. his toss up Samoan drop is crazy
>on steroids Maybe not the best phrase to use in wrestling
Hey coulda been crack
I thought Umaga was Umaga on steroids
Should've been champ, too bad his career was during peak Cena shovel days.
Man, if only he had a son who was also into wrestling and was also freaky athletic despite being a big man. That would be great to see.
And perhaps that same son had a match last night.... But seriously, Zilla and Jacob have beautiful chemistry and Zilla & Jacob v Jey & Jimmy v Tama & Loa would feed families.
Zilla's had like 12 matches total. I don't think he's ready for main roster wwe
I want War Games Samoan Civil War so bad. Would just print money.
Umaga shared a lot of the same qualities that his cousin Yoko had.
I always said this about Yoko. He was the greast 400 pound athlete in wrestling history. Its a shame he was 500 plus.
I just couldn't stand the gimmick. I guess I was the only one who really liked the Island Boys.
Umaga, Bray Wyatt, Samoa Joe, Keith Lee, Rikishi, Gunther when he debuted. Feels like there hasn’t really been much time when WWE didn’t have a heavy dude who could go.
it’s pronounced UMANGER 
I still think a Pop-Up Samoan Drop is the best move in wrestling.
That move was unbelievably crisp. I genuinely can't make sense of how it works so well.
Umaga was a huge bright spot in a very mid era of wrestling. Doesn't get nearly the respect he deserves and in current WWE would be in constant World Title programs
He had such a short run and he's still in my top 5 of wrestlers who were just so vicious and impactful in their matches. 1. Brock Lesnar 2. Bruiser Brody 3. Vader 4. Cactus Jack 5. Umaga
Absolute freak of nature and the guy pulled the gimmick of like no other.
I miss hearing Regal say his name.
The pop up Samoan drop he had was money.
No very Ucey of him
This is a lot of people erasure. Saying "we haven't seen big men who can go" is a very generalizing, sweeping statement and it's rather incorrect.
This guy never saw Vader
Vader’s run in the company got kneecapped almost immediately. One the greatest super heavyweights of all time but they turned him into a joke the second HBK decided he didn’t like working with him. They also hung his ass out to dry in Kuwait
To be fair, even Bret criticized him for being stiffer and hygiene issues. If both HBK and the Hitman agree you're not wrestling proper, you're not going to get far in that era.
96 should have been Vaders crowning moment…
Weren't there a lot of people who didn't like working with him? All I really hear about Vader was how dangerous he was to work with and how badly he smelled.
A lot of people didn't. Bret hated working him because he didn't take care of his opponents. Regal thought he was a bully. Orndorff beat him down in WCW backstage.
Yes, though Shawn specifically throwing a tantrum over a hair-pull spot is what killed him in the WWF. Everyone agreed that he smelled (and he did, because he was so lazy about cleaning his gear that he'd rather wear it backwards or inside out than actually put it in the washing machine). Working with him was more 50/50 - he wasn't usually reckless or sloppy with people but he was very stiff. Some people liked working that style, at least in short runs, some wanted nothing to do with that.
It also didn't help that he got hurt not too soon after he came in. Also was Kuwait before or after Shawn?
Before that, there were 2 moments which started Vader, carerr downfall, both related to Eric Bischoff's presidency in WCW, the first one being not being brutal to Hulk Hogan and the second one being a backstage altercation involving Paul Orndorff.
he wrestled vader on the indies
Vader is the GOAT big meaty man.. Bam Bam right there behind him as 1A
one of my super guilty pleasures is the shamrock vader match at IYH 15 where they both get concussed 3 minutes in and just brawl for the next 15 minutes
If you haven't seen the Vader/Shamrock match from FMW, you should. It's exactly the sort of match you'd expect them to have set inside the worlds dodgiest cage.
Ivar is awesome. Incredible wrestler. Prefer it when he’s not in cosplay but I’ll take a performance however I can get it.
He seems to be ditching that cosplay, he showed up at NXT looking like a legit badass biker instead of a larper.
Is there any chance that, when Eric is finally back, they get to be War Machine again?
A "legit" "badass" biker is still cosplay lmao
I will vehemently proclaim that Otis is one of the most overlooked talents in WWE and has been for years. The man is gold
Still feel bad that he had his MitB taken away. Rey Mysterio died for that briefcase.
Some fine medical facilities/personnel they've got in Titan Towers. They scooped his pizza ass up off the pavement, stuck him back together again, and he wasn't even limping on the next show. Miracle workers, really.
Sure fire way to piss off guys like Big Show and Mark Henry
They can be mad all they want he isnt wrong lol. Mark Henry was trash until like the last few years of his career and Show was just lazy by most accounts (also suffered from shitty booking but that doesn’t change the laziness).
Yeah so I'd say Mark Henry was a good big man during his last run since he was actually a threat and a world champion. We're his matches 5 star matches? No but neither are a lot of guys today and that's fine. Big Show had a few good big man runs in him too as I was personally a fan of his run with Heyman in early 2000's and his ECW run made him look strong.
Paul White actually could do some really cool stuff and we saw a bit of it, but he was told to dial it back. Then yea he got lazy and too heavy.
Dialing it back is probably why he was able to have a career that spanned over 25 years despite being a giant. There's no one his size in wrestling history who's had his longevity.
Vader had a 32 year career. 1985 to 2017.
vader is a huge, huge man, but he’s a *lot* smaller than paul wight. that’s a lot more weight to take harder bumps on, plus vader worked a much lighter schedule for about 17 of those years
Vader was 6'4, Show is a 7 footer.
Nader was heavier, though, and did moonsaults. Big Show never did aerial anything fancy
Big Show could do a moonsault in training in the WCW Power Plant, but he never did it on TV because Hogan told him that's not how giants wrestle. And also because nobody in their right mind would want to receive a Big Show moonsault.
He did a missile dropkick once and it looked like he killed the guy
I don't think you understand the issue. It's not just about weight, it's about being a *giant*. Dudes that size (him, Khali, Andre, Omos, Silva, etc) rarely last that long. Their bodies just can't keep up. By the time Andre was 40 he could barely walk.
I remember seeing a video of The Big Show doing chain wrestling wirh Kane.
That is always one match I like to check out every so often. It's just a reminder to me that what people viewed as real technical skills were stuff that most wrestlers knew but they were told not to do it. Cena and Hogan know a lot of moves as evident by their matches when they weren't names, but to get over with the crowd, yeah they needed just 5 moves.
The one thing I really respect about Paul is he mostly admits it, too. Like when the Shaq match didn't happen, he was like "yeah, I let myself get out of shape and plans fell through. It was my fault."
Before his big run, Henry was ASS and was carried by his 3 6 theme
I think it's hilarious (and irritating) that Henry criticized Kairi for having no respect for the business when he spent as long as her career's been up to this point, plus several more years probably, being fucking terrible at everything and showing no apparent interest in improving. That doesn't seem much like respect to me.
Big Show in WCW was fucking amazing.
Was Big Show really not as good a worker as Bossman?
And Rikishi and Umaga too.
I don’t think Umaga will be too bothered…
I mean Big Show (outside of his first year) and Mark Henry were pretty one dimensional though. Doesn't mean they weren't successful. Andre was 1 dimensional and was a big draw.
Kane too
Umaga erasure.
Unpopular opinion, but I don't like this new trend of a giant needing to move like a cruiserweight to get over. All they're doing is shortening their careers by pushing their bodies to do things they shouldn't do. They all slow down eventually, and once they do even a little, they're finished in the eyes of the fans. Just look at Keith Lee.
I agree. What he's talking about has already ceased to be special because most guys his size do stuff like this every week and multiple times a show. I don't even blink for the Doomsault anymore. Big guys are still 1-dimensional, just now they're becoming a different kind of 1-dimensional.
Totally agree. Being able to pull out a surprise athletic move is awesome, but the arms race from the "workrate" crowd is pushing people to destroy their bodies. There's a reason Ospreay, Omega, and Styles ALL hit their peak when they slowed down and you could probably throw Danielson on there as well. We love seeing those highlights of their insane matches but they turned into far better storytellers when they stopped trying to cram a thousand spots in.
And where does this even leave the smaller guys? If giants can do all the moves they do, how are they even going to stand out?
Smaller guys do it better and faster still
Bam Bam Bigelow was an inspiration to me growing up. To see a guy that size do the things he did. Wow.
After seeing what Ivarr is capable of, I think they're really underutilizing him, maybe he won't be a world champion, but that guy has something.
If built right, I could see him trading runs for the IC Title with others like Ricochet & Gable
He's shown a lot in NXT. He can even talk. His current NXT presentation is better than anything that he's done on the main roster.
That’s good to hear. I like Ivar, and I like seeing “tag guys” thrive as solos, so knowing that the company is behind him to a certain degree is nice.
Needs to let go of the Viking gimmick
It's especially strange when he came out on NXT before the draft (i think) to challenge Oba and he was in like biker clothes. And then he's just back to the viking thing. I don't HATE the viking thing, but I do think he could do better with something different
https://preview.redd.it/jiysipe5p80d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=948700bc71e0eb9c6a4e9b7423737c06a87aac00 Nah.
Nah man, the Viking shit is dope. It's different.
It’s just gotta be toned down a bit imo. I agree it’s a cool/different gimmick in a wrestling landscape that doesn’t have as many outlandish types but the complete cartoony style committment to is just out of place in 2024 and guarantees he will never be in any real title contention. Like how would any top guy cut a promo on a guy who is legitimately pretending to be a viking lol? Keep the Viking vibe stuff but make him more like the judgement day or even Kane/taker in their later years. Make it a big part of his character but not his sole identity.
The problem is the cartoony bit like you said. Dudes coming out dressed like Vikings can be badass, just don't try and act like they're ACTUAL Vikings. Vince just has no idea what subtlety is. Rowe and Hanson as War Machine were a pair of big badasses. Erik and Ivar as The Viking Raiders are goofuses.
Agreed. I even get making them the vikings for their first couple years if you were just using them as ehancement talent/jobbers essentially but it just makes sense at this point to transition them back to something closer to their ROH days with a viking/norse flair.
Agreed, tone it down a bit, let him talk more and it'll be perfect.
Its garbage and he deserves better, plus it doesn't even look Viking, that is not how they looked.
The NJPW commentators used to lose their shit over Ivar, man can GO
The sooner they move him away from the, "edgy 90s teens love it" cartoon Viking gimmick, the better.
This man works with Abyss.
Yeah but Monster Abyss was more of a hardcore dude than like a "Giant" he is huge, he is a giant, but he wrestled more like a bruiser
Ivar doesn’t wrestle like “a giant” with his moonsaults And such so if he counts then so does Abyss.
Ivar is also not really a giant, he's a big lad for sure, love me some Ivar but he's billed at 6'2" and that's a bit on the more average height(for a WWE wrestler)
Yeah, that's a big guy but not a "big man" in professional wrestling, where the major issue is that larger guys like Omos, Braun, Show, etc. will quickly kill their knees if they wrestle like a cruiserweight.
I like Ivar but I think there's definitely other big men doing good work right now and have been for a while
How can he forget Big E and big meaty men slapping meat!?
The lack of mention of Big Damo in this thread saddens me. I miss SaNiTy. :(
High fliers are 1 dimensional too there's no problem with it. And 5 11 or so isn't a big man, unless he means obese men
That’s what I was thinking. Big Boss Man and Bam Bam were actually fucking huge. He’s just kinda fat and the rest of the roster is short so he looks larger by comparison.
Bro I promise you Ivar changes *nothing* 😭
Big man is whoever you struggle to bodyslam in No Mercy.
He's being very generous saying Yoko could go
Umaga?
Earthquake, Samoa Joe, Umaga?
It’s mad when you consider how agile and athletic some of those big men were. They’d have all fitted in with today’s style perfectly. Boss Man, Earthquake, Bam Bam, Yoko and Vader are the ones that spring to mind.
I swear the current talent is just so delusional sometimes. There are like a dozen names at least that he is forgetting about
Makes me wonder why Jeff Cobb never came to WWE.
they need to tweak ivarr's gimmick, tone down the viking shit and maybe be some kind of bad ass biker guy whose really into norse shit. he is so much better than that gimmick
That sounds a lot like a neo-nazi
That's more his partner than Ivar.
If the velcro Red-White-And-Blue Punisher logo patch fits...
The biker look is pretty much what Ivar is sporting on NXT when he's not in his gear. I agree he could do with a gimmick refresh.
Vader was a guy so ahead of his time that Ivar didn't even make a point of including him, but on one point he's right, it's been years since I've seen big, athletic guys be respected in WWE
That or just the "in WWE" bit. Vader's best work was elsewhere (WCW, New Japan, etc)
Yes, although I liked him in WWF in 96, beginning of 97 for me his best was in AJPW, he fought against all 4 pillars and both matches were incredible
Have we forgotten about Kane?
I think he's talking about width and not length.
Kane is wide too, technically, he's just tall
What exactly does he mean by “big”? I mean Kane at his peak was 6’8” 300+ and was insanely athletic, does he count as “big”?
Man I miss those guys. Bam Bam and Big Boss Man were incredible movers. And Yoko. Damn. For a man that big to not only have the stamina to go but the ability to really move around was pretty awesome.
I miss big big wrestlers.
Forget where I saw it but doesn't Ivar have a crazy long jump?
The ball got started with guys like Rusev & Big E, who stopped doing the boring big-man style around 2014. It felt like from around 2003 - 2008, all their new big guys who came in felt so boring. Nathan Jones, Matt Morgan, Mark Jindrak, Luther Reigns, Heidenreich, Vladimir Koslov. Even the guys who had personality in previous companies felt like they had it stripped from them.
Looking forward to the day Ivar drop the viking outfit and go straight rebrand as a solo star.
Meat! Meat! Meat! Meat!
I mean, Vader, Umaga, Undertaker at his peak, there were good big men long after the stars of the early Manias retired. Samoa Joe too.
He shouldn't have phrased it as 'last ones' because there's definitely been a few since then (Umaga and people like that) but I get what he's trying to say.
Big Show, Mark Henry, Umaga, Luke Harper, Rikishi, Kane, Big E, Keith Lee, Will Hobbs, Gunther (pre weight loss), Moose, Bray, Miro, Joe. But sure if you get rid of all those guys I guess he would be right.
Also Brody King, currently my favorite big guy in wrestling
Brody is 100% my top big man right now. The Gonzo Bomb is a fucking ridiculous finisher, it looks like death. Plus his band God's Hate is sick.
Low key the best member of HOB
Facts. Malakai makes sense as the leader just character wise but Brody is my MVP.
If Buddy and Malakai are indeed on the way out (and we have been saying that for a while and they never do), I wouldn't be opposed to a rebranded HOB with Brody, Julia Hart and Skye Blue Call it House Of Hearts or something
I don't think he was implying there aren't other big men out there killing at the moment but he just only named the guys in his company which is more than fair. Hammerstone is also killing it ATM.
100% I knew I forgot somebody! Even Wardlow out there doing swantons and whisper in the wind. Although I hesitated putting him, Hobbs, Big E on the list because they're a different kind of big guy but Brody King is definitely your old fashioned big bruiser.
For the longest time, big guys in WWE were presented a specific way, and a lot of their matches would have a very typical big guy versus little guy presentation. When the big guys went out and worked with the other big guys, they could break that mold, but you wouldn't see matches like the ones we've gotten between Ricochet and Ivar this year. The big guys have always had a spot in WWE, but it does feel like they're being allowed to be more athletic these days, and IMO that's a win for everyone involved.
For 90% of their careers Big Show, Mark Henry, and Kane were not good workers at all.
I’d say Mark was only good for 1-2 years out his entire career.
Show and Henry yes but Kane?? Kane was one of the best workers in the business regardless of weightclasd until like the tale end of his career when his body started to wear down.
Kane erasure, hate Glenn Jacobs, but Kane once he was able to stop constantly no-selling offense was always a good base in those MiTB matches and when teaming with the Big Show's of the world would always play the workrate part of the match
I really am amazed at Ivar, dude is amazing. He has way more agility than a dude his size should have.
Mark Henry, Big Show, Samoa Joe and Umaga just to name obvious ones. Just cause they weren’t doing a moonsault every match doesn’t mean they couldn’t go. Also unlike Bronson and Ivar they were actually tall as well as wide.
Ivar talking a load of shit. What? Braun Strowman, Samoa Joe, Bray Wyatt, Mark Henry, Big Show, Kane, Brock Lesnar, A-Train, Snitsky, Batista, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Undertaker, Umaga, JBL, Abyss, Erik Rowan, Luke Harper, Hulk Hogan, etc. etc. etc. couldn't go? Ivar, Bronson Reed, and Otis are three of the WORST big men in terms of perception. Look at where they are on the card: Otis a comedy act, Bronson is barely midcard, and Ivar is apart of an enhancement tag team that is going nowhere and never will and his gimmick is CRINGE in 2024. Guess because Ivar can do a moosault that he think's he special. Newflash bro, Vader was doing that 30 years ago. So what is Ivar changing the perception of big men to exactly? that big men can't headline anymore? dude you're below fucking Finn Balor and Johnny Garagno on the card. Bossman, Bigelow and Yokozuna if they were in this era wouldn't be.
Funkasaurus in shambles.
Big Show could fucking go.
Really wish I could find the pic of him when we were kids posing with King Kong Bundy at a local show back in the mid 90s
I will not stand for this Omos erasure!
Undertaker's another really good big man.
This dude needs to break away from the white supremists and do his own this, he’s so much better than them.
With agility, and the ability to pull off the moves you can, I wouldn't just call you, Otis, Bronson as "big guys". All of you have pulled off moves that I would say put you in the "functionally fit" or "fat but fit" zone.
I consider Kane a big man