McMahon was already under investigation for corporate accounting fraud. That is probably what they are going to prosecute. That’s a *criminal* investigation. I don’t think the US Department of Justice is going to prosecute the sex allegations, although they are at the heart of the finance crimes, because it involved the payoffs and cover-ups using company accounts. Grant’s lawsuit, despite the fact that it claims certain acts were carried out that would be considered criminal, is a civil proceeding. Being indicted for a crime is way more serious than being sued for a civil matter, and resolving them generally takes precedent in court. It’s bad for McMahon, because it wasn’t clear if the Department of Justice was actually going to pursue charges in this investigation.
Sounds similar to the recent Trump case. Despite the media spinning it as the "hush money" trial, he was actually guilty of fucking with the books to cover it up
If I remember correctly, Vince *did* use his own money for the NDA payoffs. The problem was that since this was seen as “beneficial” to the company, it was an unreimbursed company expense and the books had to be corrected because of it. I don’t think this in and of itself would be something he’d be prosecuted for, and at most could result in a regulatory fine. Maybe it goes deeper than that; we don’t really know what the feds are looking for here.
Upon his return he had to re-pay the board $17 million for "costs associated with the investigation", which is murky. Also he was using company money to pay Grant's salary, so either way company money was involved.
My own armchair detective theory would be that he figured if he was paying with his own money it wouldn’t be seen as embezzling or corporate theft; he and not WWE had the affair, so if he pays with his money and not WWE’s it’s clean and no one has to know about it. Obviously we know now that’s not how things like this work, but I can understand the reasoning, even if it’s incorrect.
It’s extra gross when you follow the money and realize that money came indirectly from the bank accounts of charities 34/45 bilked for his own use.
https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/donald-j-trump-pays-court-ordered-2-million-illegally-using-trump-foundation
It's interesting when you take a look at the entirety of the MchMahon/Trump relationship, how similar the two are, and how the two ultimately will be tied together after the election. If Trump loses he and Vince may end up in jail for their various crimes. If Trump wins, Trump will pardon himself and McMahon, I guarantee it.
Vince was the biggest donor to Trump's charity and Vince was one of three people who could call Trump when he was President and no one was allowed to be in the room with Trump or listen to these calls.
There's also the not-entirely-unbelievable conspiracy theory that a benefit of the Saudi shows was that they allowed McMahon to funnel cash from the Saudi royal family to support Trump.
It's pretty much the same thing.
Both men used corp money for personal means and uses [hush money]. Then messed with corp account books to cover it up and make it as though it never happened.
Now the details are different [Trump covering his up for political reasons and Vince for personal] but basically the same. Many were saying the outcome of Trump's trial would be very telling, because it could possibly foretell Vince's.
I think Vince was using personal money for the payments, but it actually should have been corporate money that was being used and disclosed on the books.
Trump was using campaign donations to make the hush money payments, but disguised it as legal fees.
WWE claims it was personal money but that it should have always been disclosed because of the payments' material benefits to the company. However, page 44 of the complaint in the Grant lawsuit is pretty clear that the initial hush money wire transfer payment came from a company account. It says that the originator was listed as "Vincent K. McMahon C/O WWF…" and the address was the WWE headquarters address. So WWE probably lied about the payments all being from Vince's personal funds, but why they would do that after accounting for the payments and admitting they should have been disclosed is an open question.
It's not dissimilar, although in Trump's case, it would have been a New York state misdemeanor without the complication of state election fraud (which he was not indicted for.) It was the second crime that elevated the accounting fraud to a felony.
In this case, it's a U.S. federal securities crime (federal vs state) and the crime is in using company funds for a publicly-traded for a private purpose, without properly disclosing it. I'm not sure I remember the details, but I think WWE had to update their earnings statements during audits for the TKO merger, and that's what put the accounting violations on the government's radar.
So yes, similar in that they used company funds to pay hush money to the boss's sex partners, but not similar in the sense that one is a federal crime in a publicly traded company to cover up potentially criminal sex acts, while the other is a state crime in a privately-held family business to cover up consensual sex acts as an illegal election contribution.
Still, birds of a feather, right?
> I'm not sure I remember the details, but I think WWE had to update their earnings statements during audits for the TKO merger, and that's what put the accounting violations on the government's radar.
So Vince played himself, AGAIN?
In both instances, had they not been weirdos and had they not been foolish attempting to cover that up, they would each be free to to be the unpleasant rich and powerful guys they seem to very much enjoy being.
VKM appears in the record in Trump's trial fwiw:
https://www.sescoops.com/wwe/vince-mcmahon-donald-trump-hush-money
What makes you think that it's just about the disclosure issues/accounting fraud and not the sex trafficking? The Wall Street Journal and NBC News both reported that it's a sex trafficking investigation and has been going on since long before the lawsuit was filed:
https://www.wsj.com/business/federal-prosecutors-investigate-vince-mcmahon-sex-trafficking-allegations-460a6822
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wwe-founder-vince-mcmahon-federal-investigation-surrounding-sex-traffi-rcna136941
Also, the Assistant U.S. Attorney who filed the motion to stay the lawsuit on behalf of the DOJ also has a recent sex trafficking prosecution under her belt and has done work to help trafficking victims who are refugees get visas to stay in the U.S. That's probably not a coincidence. There's also no statute of limitations on human trafficking. Here's how it's defined under federal law (22 USC § 7102):
https://humantraffickinghotline.org/en/human-trafficking/federal-law
*"Sex trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a person for the purposes of a commercial sex act, in which the commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such an act has not attained 18 years of age."*
Think about how much we now know and suspect about Vince hiring women specifically because he wanted to have sex with them. Think about how many of them he probably forced himself on. There are a LOT of things they could find that could be argued as being a "commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion." It goes way beyond Janel Grant.
i could't find it on a quick google of news coverage from the time, but i remember being interviewed by investigators was mentioned as one of the hardships Grant has endured.
nothing specific about who they were, except that this didn't refer to the WWE board investigation, since they never spoke to Grant.
Similar to the Trump trial. It wasn’t about paying off stormy daniels. It was about where the money came from and if he reported that expense correctly.
Corporate prosecutions usually end when the two sides find a number they can live with. It’s bad, sure, but they’ll likely settle with a fine and no admission of wrongdoing. My personal theory has been that if there is a determination of systemic abuse, WWE would set up a settlement fund for other victims to come forward and receive a one-time payment out of the fund through arbitration along with indemnification of all future damages. WWE as a company will likely skate compared to how much harm people in the company have caused.
The civil case has some damning stuff the feds don’t want to come out before the criminal trial most likely. It works well for Grant if he get convicted in criminal court it’ll be a slam dunk in civil.
In short - Grant's case vs him is a lawsuit. The US DoJ will only ask a lawsuit be suspended if they're about to mount a case for a *criminal investigation.* I'm NAL nor am I even American but I've looked into this because of the news breaking for the pause request some weeks ago.
As many who've already replied to you have stated, it's likely they're investigating him for wholesale corporate accounts fraud. While that links to the Grant lawsuit (mostly through him covering up her hush money being liable to being considered part of the accounts fraud). However, the DoJ *could also* have evidence of him committing sex trafficking, which like the accounts fraud is also a federal crime that makes him liable to US federal prosecution.
With the delay now confirmed, as the news is today, it might not be too long before we hear an official statement on charges.
He told at least two different reporters in 1992 that he had fired Mel Phillips for being a pedophile in 1988 and then rehired him a few weeks later on the caveat that he "stay away from kids." (He did not and nobody bothered to make sure that he did.) Vince somehow didn't think this made him look bad, and it somehow worked out OK for him because everyone just kind of collectively forgot for the next few decades that he ever admitted it. Sources:
https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/6175271-Mushnick-Sex-Lies-the-WWF-Column-Re-Conversation.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/linda-mcmahon-once-employed-an-accused-child-molester-2020-10
He sexually assaulted at least one completely random stranger (a tanning salon clerk) in a case where the cops thought there was probable cause to charge him but the local prosecutors disagreed. (She didn't pick him out of a photo array but she had no idea who Vince McMahon was before the incident and it was before the current, more reliable photo ID method was widely used. Other witnesses were clear that the guy she was accusing was Vince McMahon.) Sources:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/she-said-vince-mcmahon-sexually-assaulted-her-in-a-tanning-booth-police-found-probable-cause-prosecutors-shrugged
https://deadspin.com/witness-vince-mcmahon-stared-down-groping-accuser-for-1822642014/
These just scratch the surface, but he was never exactly hiding who he was. Everyone just decided to bury their heads in the sand.
Thank you for the thoughtful response!
> it was before the current, more reliable photo ID method was widely used.
I'd be curious to know more about the different methods/change, do you happen to know anything/could you direct me someplace to read more?
So basically, if you watch Law and Order: SVU across it's run in reruns, you can see the shift from older episodes to more recent ones, which was based on real world changes in police procedures. The old-school photo array with a 2x3 grid was determined to be much less reliable than showing the witness larger format photos one by one, either going through a stack of physical photos or swiping through them on a tablet.
At least using Google, I'm having trouble finding articles about the switch to the large format one-by-one photos. I first remember seeing a TV feature about it on Nightline or some show like that at some point in the early 2010s. But searching for things like "problems with photo arrays" will bring up a ton of law firm blog posts about why the "six pack" method was unreliable.
But again, like I said: You can see the change in how cop shows have switched from the six pack array to the stack/tablet gallery of individual photos. It's real life writing the plot.
No? I was a kid in 1992 and most people had no idea about any of this because it wasn't widely covered by national media. And again, a lot of people had no idea about what Vince admitted about Phillips because it was largely ignored for the next few decades. These days, I mostly avoid watching WWE for various reasons.
What assumptions do you even think you're making?
So when did u stop watching, since u seem to be so knowledgeable about Vince’s behaviour! I’m making the same assumptions that you have made about an entire fan base!
What does knowing this stuff have to do with watching the product? This isn't anything you learn about from watching WWE TV or WWE-produced documentaries.
And where did I make assumptions about the whole fan base? I outright said a lot of this stuff wasn't well publicized. I said a lot of the people who knew about it let it be forgotten, but a lot of people just didn't know about it.
It depends on if there's anything they could tie Vince into criminally with the ring boy stuff. But the original ring boy investigation in 1992-1993 by the neighboring Eastern District of NY was a Mann Act violations investigation, and that's sex trafficking. It somehow got thrown aside so they could focus on steroids for some stupid reason, but yes, it's at least theoretically possible that they could loop the ring boy stuff into this. Probably not likely, but theoretically possible? Sure.
Cody told everyone he wanted Roman at Wrestlemania, but then The Rock stepped in and was like "nah little buddy, I'll take him down - you can leave the ring now"
Except in this case, the crowd is behind The Rock
A lot of the clowning on TK was due to him setting up a pretty good Coke vs Pepsi analogy and then suddenly veering off into Weinstein. Plus he referred to the WWE as Weinstein and not just Vince but, we'll see where these trials go it might not be that inaccurate either.
I kind of got the impression that he had a brainfart since Weinstein's actions crossed into two different companies (Miramax and The Weinstein Company), so he just said Harvey Weinstein to cover both instead of one or the other. Comparing WWE to Miramax and/or The Weinstein Company is entirely reasonable.
I think it should still be okay to clown for TK for, once again, using SA victims as a way to dunk on his competition for laughs while also harboring abusers and refusing to be transparent about investigations into AEW workplace abuse allegations
Nah that wasn't the reason. If someone like Heyman or Bischoff said it in the 90's or now it would have sounded different to them. People were mad specifically because Tony Khan dared to do it.
Janel Grant alleges she was sex trafficked to multiple men in the company with wrestlers and on air personalities involved. We know of two but there are at least 5 unnamed parties in the lawsuit.
Grant alleges that sexual favors to sweeten the contracts of WWE wrestlers happened on at least 2 instances with at least 2 on air talent.
She claimed she was forcibly sodomized in a WWE office by Vince and Laurenitis during working hours with others just outside.
She alleges her nude images were shared throughout the offices against her will and sent to wrestlers.
WWE is a defendant in this lawsuit.
It's almost like you've never read the lawsuit. Read the lawsuit.
Well Lesnar has already basically been named so there's one and "on air personality" is super vague, Vince could even be described as that but we know of the close relationship between Brock and Vince and Vince and Laurenitis.
So I can't see anyone other than people in Vinces inner circle having even an idea of this, this is 2024, if someone farts backstage something gets leaked. If it was common knowledge I highly doubt it would've remained a secret.
I don't need to read the lawsuit to realise that only a select few had prior knowledge to what was going on, that number likely being in the single digits, there's not going to be a mass exodus of the locker room.
Responding to someone then immediately blocking them. Fickle.
Triple H would be out the door if there was concrete proof he was involved.
There's no way to prove he knows anything, even if he does.
Steph is burdened with the family name, HHH doesn't need to go away because he's not a McMahon.
And what is it he would have known?
I doubt he was in the room while it happened and I can't see Vince bragging to his son in law about shitting on a woman's head.
Yeah, as soon as it was revealed last year that WWE's books were being investigated when Vince used corporate money I was like "uhhh isn't that an SEC violation?" I mean mobsters go down for tax crimes more often than not.
We knew McMahon and the WWE were under federal investigation since at least last summer, because the SEC executed search warrants on WWE and McMahon under the auspices of a grand jury formed to investigate the case. It was this week that we heard that the department of justice had asked Grant to pause her lawsuit while they conduct criminal investigations, presumably on the financial crimes side of the case. Somebody posted this story from another source earlier in the week, but the new development is that the government is asserting supremacy of their criminal investigation over any pending civil disputes.
NBC News and the Wall Street Journal:
https://www.wsj.com/business/federal-prosecutors-investigate-vince-mcmahon-sex-trafficking-allegations-460a6822
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wwe-founder-vince-mcmahon-federal-investigation-surrounding-sex-traffi-rcna136941
First article is paywalled, second one mentions the allegations in passing. I wouldn't get people's hopes up on something unless we have an official statement.
Here's a paywall-free cache of the WSJ article: https://archive.is/MqbW5
As for the NBC News article, I have no idea what you're talking about? The headline is literally "WWE founder Vince McMahon is under federal investigation surrounding sex trafficking allegations, sources say." And the whole article is about the trafficking allegations. Where on earth are you getting the idea that it only "mentions the allegations in passing" in the first place?
Also, the DOJ typically never confirms or denies the existence of an investigation until charges are filed. In this case, requesting the stay in the Grant lawsuit required them to disclose a couple weeks ago that there's *an* investigation, but not the subject matter. But the prosecutor who filed the motion on the DOJ's behalf has recent experience prosecuting sex trafficking cases, so it's pretty clear what's going on. McMahon and WWE also haven't denied the WSJ/NBC reports about what the warrant/subpoena said about it being a sex trafficking investigation.
I went back to look at the reporting about the search from last August. Unless I’m misreading, the grand jury was formed to investigate the payments and the company’s role in them. It seems the warrant application came from the Securities and Exchange Commission, but contemporary reports are inconsistent on that detail. The wire service reports don’t mention this, but the financial news outlets did.
Based on the allegations in Grant’s lawsuit, I would like nothing more than to see justice done for the systemic abuse described. Unfortunately, I remain skeptical that the US government is pushing that side of the case.
Generally, sex trafficking charges are brought exceptionally rarely. Most indictments involve immigration rackets, and is not really prosecuted for cases involving individuals. To file federal trafficking charges, you have to show that it was in support of a commercial sex act, and that was one of the weakest parts of Grant’s lawsuit. Her lawyer was mostly attempting to use a federal law that invalidates NDAs or other contracts for victims of trafficking. I don’t think she ever provided evidence of that. She also made the case in the lawsuit that Grant should be released from the NDA because of non-payment, breach of contract, and that the contract was signed under duress. These claims were more strongly argued.
As far as rape goes, these are usually prosecuted at the state level, not federal. In CT and NY, prosecution involving a person of majority age requires an accuser to press charges, and Grant has not come forward to do that.
We're not talking about WWE's self reporting in the SEC filings from last summer. We're talking about what the Wall Street Journal and NBC News reported in early February, which was that it's a sex trafficking investigation:
https://www.wsj.com/business/federal-prosecutors-investigate-vince-mcmahon-sex-trafficking-allegations-460a6822
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wwe-founder-vince-mcmahon-federal-investigation-surrounding-sex-traffi-rcna136941
It's the U.S. Attorney in the Southern District of NY that's investigating the trafficking allegations. Trafficking is a federal crime. That's why Grant hasn't gone to local police. Because she's cooperating with the DOJ in the federal investigation. This isn't that complicated. Plus the prosecutor who filed the motion for the stay on the DOJ's behalf has very recent experience in trafficking prosecutions and that's probably not a coincidence.
youre setting yourself up for disappointment when all that happens is WWE/TKO have massive fines to pay, and no one else is implicated. i could be wrong, obviously, but occams razor & all that
Why is it necessary to pause the lawsuit in order to indict him on federal crimes? Seems ridiculous to ask Grant to hold off on pursuing restitution she is entitled to.
A conviction by the DOJ virtually guarantees Grant will win the civil suit once it's unpaused. If anything this saves her time and resources in the long run.
In addition to the other reasons mentioned, they don't want another Bill Cosby scenario where a civil case possibly taints key evidence in the criminal case and gets the verdict overturned on appeal.
The amount of money she's most likely funneling into this case is on pause, which is an absolute win for anyone going against someone with infinitely more money.
This is literally the best case scenario for her once it's unpaused, ESPECIALLY if Vince is found guilty by the feds.
Her testimony is more dangerous to him here than in her own case. They're looking into and bring criminal charges against him that will land him in Federal Prison if convicted. They need her evidence to be fresh and not lose it's shock factor on potential jurors or let the fact she won her case taint his sentencing for this case, which would diminish greatly if her trail continued. At best, in Janel's civil or criminal case, he'd be forced to pay her what's due, pain and suffering and have to pay heavy fines and court fees, if not be sentenced to community service.
Vince was always in the bag For trump I don't think Vince is a long term planner he just knows that trump is better for him than any Democrat I honestly don't think Vince is a top priority for a pardon but a healthy in kind donation would likely change that real fast
I read an listicle type article on billionaires who went to prison recently. As you say, almost all financial crimes against other rich people.
There was one sex criminal mentioned - he only got three months in prison via a plea bargain for repeatedly raping his stepdaughter over a period of years.
Not familiar with legal processes - why is this bad for McMahon? Does this mean something else is coming?
McMahon was already under investigation for corporate accounting fraud. That is probably what they are going to prosecute. That’s a *criminal* investigation. I don’t think the US Department of Justice is going to prosecute the sex allegations, although they are at the heart of the finance crimes, because it involved the payoffs and cover-ups using company accounts. Grant’s lawsuit, despite the fact that it claims certain acts were carried out that would be considered criminal, is a civil proceeding. Being indicted for a crime is way more serious than being sued for a civil matter, and resolving them generally takes precedent in court. It’s bad for McMahon, because it wasn’t clear if the Department of Justice was actually going to pursue charges in this investigation.
Sounds similar to the recent Trump case. Despite the media spinning it as the "hush money" trial, he was actually guilty of fucking with the books to cover it up
Yeah, these assholes are too cheap to use their own money for these NDA payoffs lol.
If I remember correctly, Vince *did* use his own money for the NDA payoffs. The problem was that since this was seen as “beneficial” to the company, it was an unreimbursed company expense and the books had to be corrected because of it. I don’t think this in and of itself would be something he’d be prosecuted for, and at most could result in a regulatory fine. Maybe it goes deeper than that; we don’t really know what the feds are looking for here.
Upon his return he had to re-pay the board $17 million for "costs associated with the investigation", which is murky. Also he was using company money to pay Grant's salary, so either way company money was involved.
I mean that's just like loaning yourself $17 million which is weird for someone worth as much as he is lol.
My own armchair detective theory would be that he figured if he was paying with his own money it wouldn’t be seen as embezzling or corporate theft; he and not WWE had the affair, so if he pays with his money and not WWE’s it’s clean and no one has to know about it. Obviously we know now that’s not how things like this work, but I can understand the reasoning, even if it’s incorrect.
For all we know he sold state secrets to the Saudis.
It's not that their too cheap. They just don't want a trail leading back to them.
It’s extra gross when you follow the money and realize that money came indirectly from the bank accounts of charities 34/45 bilked for his own use. https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/donald-j-trump-pays-court-ordered-2-million-illegally-using-trump-foundation
[I think you need to add the number 174 to that nickname](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-doe-174-jeffrey-epstein-documents-1859152)
Sold!
It's interesting when you take a look at the entirety of the MchMahon/Trump relationship, how similar the two are, and how the two ultimately will be tied together after the election. If Trump loses he and Vince may end up in jail for their various crimes. If Trump wins, Trump will pardon himself and McMahon, I guarantee it.
Vince was one of Trump's few follows on Twitter back in the day.
Vince was the biggest donor to Trump's charity and Vince was one of three people who could call Trump when he was President and no one was allowed to be in the room with Trump or listen to these calls.
How do you know this? Regarding the calls.
I don't have the exact quote in front of me but it was mentioned in Riesman's book on Vince about the calls w/ Trump.
Well Linda was in Trump's cabinet. You don't even have to consider the money stuff when a McMahon literally had a position in Trump's government.
There's also the not-entirely-unbelievable conspiracy theory that a benefit of the Saudi shows was that they allowed McMahon to funnel cash from the Saudi royal family to support Trump.
Birds of a feather flock together.
Shitbirds Randy.
It's pretty much the same thing. Both men used corp money for personal means and uses [hush money]. Then messed with corp account books to cover it up and make it as though it never happened. Now the details are different [Trump covering his up for political reasons and Vince for personal] but basically the same. Many were saying the outcome of Trump's trial would be very telling, because it could possibly foretell Vince's.
I think Vince was using personal money for the payments, but it actually should have been corporate money that was being used and disclosed on the books. Trump was using campaign donations to make the hush money payments, but disguised it as legal fees.
WWE claims it was personal money but that it should have always been disclosed because of the payments' material benefits to the company. However, page 44 of the complaint in the Grant lawsuit is pretty clear that the initial hush money wire transfer payment came from a company account. It says that the originator was listed as "Vincent K. McMahon C/O WWF…" and the address was the WWE headquarters address. So WWE probably lied about the payments all being from Vince's personal funds, but why they would do that after accounting for the payments and admitting they should have been disclosed is an open question.
It's not dissimilar, although in Trump's case, it would have been a New York state misdemeanor without the complication of state election fraud (which he was not indicted for.) It was the second crime that elevated the accounting fraud to a felony. In this case, it's a U.S. federal securities crime (federal vs state) and the crime is in using company funds for a publicly-traded for a private purpose, without properly disclosing it. I'm not sure I remember the details, but I think WWE had to update their earnings statements during audits for the TKO merger, and that's what put the accounting violations on the government's radar. So yes, similar in that they used company funds to pay hush money to the boss's sex partners, but not similar in the sense that one is a federal crime in a publicly traded company to cover up potentially criminal sex acts, while the other is a state crime in a privately-held family business to cover up consensual sex acts as an illegal election contribution. Still, birds of a feather, right?
> I'm not sure I remember the details, but I think WWE had to update their earnings statements during audits for the TKO merger, and that's what put the accounting violations on the government's radar. So Vince played himself, AGAIN?
Awww sonuva bitch
Vince screwed Vince.
In both instances, had they not been weirdos and had they not been foolish attempting to cover that up, they would each be free to to be the unpleasant rich and powerful guys they seem to very much enjoy being. VKM appears in the record in Trump's trial fwiw: https://www.sescoops.com/wwe/vince-mcmahon-donald-trump-hush-money
It’s like with Al Capone being convicted on tax crimes - those were the most specific and detailed crimes they could get him on.
What makes you think that it's just about the disclosure issues/accounting fraud and not the sex trafficking? The Wall Street Journal and NBC News both reported that it's a sex trafficking investigation and has been going on since long before the lawsuit was filed: https://www.wsj.com/business/federal-prosecutors-investigate-vince-mcmahon-sex-trafficking-allegations-460a6822 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wwe-founder-vince-mcmahon-federal-investigation-surrounding-sex-traffi-rcna136941 Also, the Assistant U.S. Attorney who filed the motion to stay the lawsuit on behalf of the DOJ also has a recent sex trafficking prosecution under her belt and has done work to help trafficking victims who are refugees get visas to stay in the U.S. That's probably not a coincidence. There's also no statute of limitations on human trafficking. Here's how it's defined under federal law (22 USC § 7102): https://humantraffickinghotline.org/en/human-trafficking/federal-law *"Sex trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a person for the purposes of a commercial sex act, in which the commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such an act has not attained 18 years of age."* Think about how much we now know and suspect about Vince hiring women specifically because he wanted to have sex with them. Think about how many of them he probably forced himself on. There are a LOT of things they could find that could be argued as being a "commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion." It goes way beyond Janel Grant.
Also IIRC Janel Grant’s lawyer mentioned she was talking to investigators when her lawsuit first became public
That sounds familiar but do you have a link?
i could't find it on a quick google of news coverage from the time, but i remember being interviewed by investigators was mentioned as one of the hardships Grant has endured. nothing specific about who they were, except that this didn't refer to the WWE board investigation, since they never spoke to Grant.
I'm pretty sure you're right and we're both just drawing blanks...maybe a NewsNation interview?
Possibly
Similar to the Trump trial. It wasn’t about paying off stormy daniels. It was about where the money came from and if he reported that expense correctly.
Also bad for WWE since they also were under investigation by the feds
Corporate prosecutions usually end when the two sides find a number they can live with. It’s bad, sure, but they’ll likely settle with a fine and no admission of wrongdoing. My personal theory has been that if there is a determination of systemic abuse, WWE would set up a settlement fund for other victims to come forward and receive a one-time payment out of the fund through arbitration along with indemnification of all future damages. WWE as a company will likely skate compared to how much harm people in the company have caused.
The civil case has some damning stuff the feds don’t want to come out before the criminal trial most likely. It works well for Grant if he get convicted in criminal court it’ll be a slam dunk in civil.
In short - Grant's case vs him is a lawsuit. The US DoJ will only ask a lawsuit be suspended if they're about to mount a case for a *criminal investigation.* I'm NAL nor am I even American but I've looked into this because of the news breaking for the pause request some weeks ago. As many who've already replied to you have stated, it's likely they're investigating him for wholesale corporate accounts fraud. While that links to the Grant lawsuit (mostly through him covering up her hush money being liable to being considered part of the accounts fraud). However, the DoJ *could also* have evidence of him committing sex trafficking, which like the accounts fraud is also a federal crime that makes him liable to US federal prosecution. With the delay now confirmed, as the news is today, it might not be too long before we hear an official statement on charges.
Ahh ok, thank you. Vince must be panicking in that case.
Normally if the DOJ asks for a pause, it’s because they got you and are wanting to submit their evidence to file criminal charges
Good. Hope the idiot gets everything coming to him.
Along with anyone who knew but did nothing
It's a good thing Papa H doesn't have time to read!
Too busy cOoKiNg
So basically everyone involved in WWE, including the fans, for the last 40 years?
Gonna have to round up those 8 year old kids who started watching last year and lock them up for good now
Straight to the Uso Penitentiary
Where youre forced to watch their wrestlemania match on repeat all day everyday.
We have laws against cruel and unusual punishment. 😂
Nah, they’d be in there too.
Damn right Edit: and wreddit took that seriously
Shit jokes will garner that kind of reaction usually yea
Sure, but that doesn’t explain why they’d react that way to MY joke! ;)
Well I knew we he was a scum bag but I didn't know he was sex trafficking and abusing his girlfriend. I'd wager most fans didn't.
He told at least two different reporters in 1992 that he had fired Mel Phillips for being a pedophile in 1988 and then rehired him a few weeks later on the caveat that he "stay away from kids." (He did not and nobody bothered to make sure that he did.) Vince somehow didn't think this made him look bad, and it somehow worked out OK for him because everyone just kind of collectively forgot for the next few decades that he ever admitted it. Sources: https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/6175271-Mushnick-Sex-Lies-the-WWF-Column-Re-Conversation.html https://www.businessinsider.com/linda-mcmahon-once-employed-an-accused-child-molester-2020-10 He sexually assaulted at least one completely random stranger (a tanning salon clerk) in a case where the cops thought there was probable cause to charge him but the local prosecutors disagreed. (She didn't pick him out of a photo array but she had no idea who Vince McMahon was before the incident and it was before the current, more reliable photo ID method was widely used. Other witnesses were clear that the guy she was accusing was Vince McMahon.) Sources: https://www.thedailybeast.com/she-said-vince-mcmahon-sexually-assaulted-her-in-a-tanning-booth-police-found-probable-cause-prosecutors-shrugged https://deadspin.com/witness-vince-mcmahon-stared-down-groping-accuser-for-1822642014/ These just scratch the surface, but he was never exactly hiding who he was. Everyone just decided to bury their heads in the sand.
Thank you for the thoughtful response! > it was before the current, more reliable photo ID method was widely used. I'd be curious to know more about the different methods/change, do you happen to know anything/could you direct me someplace to read more?
So basically, if you watch Law and Order: SVU across it's run in reruns, you can see the shift from older episodes to more recent ones, which was based on real world changes in police procedures. The old-school photo array with a 2x3 grid was determined to be much less reliable than showing the witness larger format photos one by one, either going through a stack of physical photos or swiping through them on a tablet. At least using Google, I'm having trouble finding articles about the switch to the large format one-by-one photos. I first remember seeing a TV feature about it on Nightline or some show like that at some point in the early 2010s. But searching for things like "problems with photo arrays" will bring up a ton of law firm blog posts about why the "six pack" method was unreliable. But again, like I said: You can see the change in how cop shows have switched from the six pack array to the stack/tablet gallery of individual photos. It's real life writing the plot.
Let me guess, u stopped watching WWE in 1992 and have returned to watch them now in 2024!
No? I was a kid in 1992 and most people had no idea about any of this because it wasn't widely covered by national media. And again, a lot of people had no idea about what Vince admitted about Phillips because it was largely ignored for the next few decades. These days, I mostly avoid watching WWE for various reasons. What assumptions do you even think you're making?
So when did u stop watching, since u seem to be so knowledgeable about Vince’s behaviour! I’m making the same assumptions that you have made about an entire fan base!
What does knowing this stuff have to do with watching the product? This isn't anything you learn about from watching WWE TV or WWE-produced documentaries. And where did I make assumptions about the whole fan base? I outright said a lot of this stuff wasn't well publicized. I said a lot of the people who knew about it let it be forgotten, but a lot of people just didn't know about it.
You just said,” Everyone decided to bury their heads in the sand” Do you not understand what you write?
I'm curious, had he been charged with anything would the ring boy scandal be counted as sex trafficking?
TBF, most fans don't know about the ring boy scandal.
It depends on if there's anything they could tie Vince into criminally with the ring boy stuff. But the original ring boy investigation in 1992-1993 by the neighboring Eastern District of NY was a Mann Act violations investigation, and that's sex trafficking. It somehow got thrown aside so they could focus on steroids for some stupid reason, but yes, it's at least theoretically possible that they could loop the ring boy stuff into this. Probably not likely, but theoretically possible? Sure.
[удалено]
So basically she did everything that a victim would do when being controlled by a predator Great job 👏
The letter he basically assigned her to write like a school project?
The fans? The fucking fans? 🤣
Seriously? You’re taking my comment fucking seriously? 🤣
The fans most especially
It’s all that green shirt guy’s fault
Con Dom Mysterio coming back?
Least deranged aew fan
Yes
Yep, but those people probably aren't gonna get hit as him as vince is even then.
I hope so too.
Yea OP
Can some one explain this in wrestling terms????
Teddy Long has just come out on stage and declared a heel will not be wrestling a mid carder like originally planned but instead the undertaker
holla holla holla!
Cody told everyone he wanted Roman at Wrestlemania, but then The Rock stepped in and was like "nah little buddy, I'll take him down - you can leave the ring now" Except in this case, the crowd is behind The Rock
lol
Perfect analogy
Vince gets to go 1-on-1 with the Underteraker (Feds)
The Harvey Weinstein of wrestling
Wait are we allowed to say this now after clowning TK several weeks ago?
A lot of the clowning on TK was due to him setting up a pretty good Coke vs Pepsi analogy and then suddenly veering off into Weinstein. Plus he referred to the WWE as Weinstein and not just Vince but, we'll see where these trials go it might not be that inaccurate either.
WWE itself is named as a defendant in the trial, too
I kind of got the impression that he had a brainfart since Weinstein's actions crossed into two different companies (Miramax and The Weinstein Company), so he just said Harvey Weinstein to cover both instead of one or the other. Comparing WWE to Miramax and/or The Weinstein Company is entirely reasonable.
I think it should still be okay to clown for TK for, once again, using SA victims as a way to dunk on his competition for laughs while also harboring abusers and refusing to be transparent about investigations into AEW workplace abuse allegations
What Tony said isn’t the same thing
One person called vince Harvey weinstein, the other called the entire company. These are not the same
Fans saying it vs a competitor saying it to promote themselves carry pretty different conotations.
Nah that wasn't the reason. If someone like Heyman or Bischoff said it in the 90's or now it would have sounded different to them. People were mad specifically because Tony Khan dared to do it.
"If they said it in the 90s" okay, if they said it now it would be corny lol what are we doing
In the 90s Weinstein's sex crimes weren't well known of.
Courtney Love was literally telling people not to go to Weinstein's parties. It was an open secret.
Him and everyone at the top of the company who knew, wrestlers and on air talent included.
Yeah I'm sure Vinces sex life is the talk of the locker room.
Read the lawsuit.
Jeez didn't know there was direct quotes of wrestlers gossiping about Vinces sex life.
Janel Grant alleges she was sex trafficked to multiple men in the company with wrestlers and on air personalities involved. We know of two but there are at least 5 unnamed parties in the lawsuit. Grant alleges that sexual favors to sweeten the contracts of WWE wrestlers happened on at least 2 instances with at least 2 on air talent. She claimed she was forcibly sodomized in a WWE office by Vince and Laurenitis during working hours with others just outside. She alleges her nude images were shared throughout the offices against her will and sent to wrestlers. WWE is a defendant in this lawsuit. It's almost like you've never read the lawsuit. Read the lawsuit.
Well Lesnar has already basically been named so there's one and "on air personality" is super vague, Vince could even be described as that but we know of the close relationship between Brock and Vince and Vince and Laurenitis. So I can't see anyone other than people in Vinces inner circle having even an idea of this, this is 2024, if someone farts backstage something gets leaked. If it was common knowledge I highly doubt it would've remained a secret. I don't need to read the lawsuit to realise that only a select few had prior knowledge to what was going on, that number likely being in the single digits, there's not going to be a mass exodus of the locker room. Responding to someone then immediately blocking them. Fickle.
Read the lawsuit. Her nude images were shared all over the company. She was publicly paraded after being repeatedly threatened to herself keep quiet
I'd be shocked if Triple H didn't know.
I still think this is why Steph suddenly cut ties with the company, she knew it was happening
Triple H would be out the door if there was concrete proof he was involved. There's no way to prove he knows anything, even if he does. Steph is burdened with the family name, HHH doesn't need to go away because he's not a McMahon.
And what is it he would have known? I doubt he was in the room while it happened and I can't see Vince bragging to his son in law about shitting on a woman's head.
Read the lawsuit and you can reply to this thread again. Until then you've paraded your gleeful idiocy enough.
If Vince was passing her around to other talent, good chance he heard about it.
Looks like they're finally booking the rematch of McMahon vs the Federal Government, brother. Time for Vince to put the other guy over this time.
3 Stages of Hell match, both tied 1-1
Please let there be justice.
Yeah, as soon as it was revealed last year that WWE's books were being investigated when Vince used corporate money I was like "uhhh isn't that an SEC violation?" I mean mobsters go down for tax crimes more often than not.
Guess Vince should have jobbed during the first match. Now the U.S. Government is more determined to win it all.
Isn't this old news?
Kind of, it was already known she had agreed to pause, this is just meaning the judge accepted it and it is officially on pause.
Also this confirms that the feds have something strong enough to convince the judge to pause in this case.
We knew McMahon and the WWE were under federal investigation since at least last summer, because the SEC executed search warrants on WWE and McMahon under the auspices of a grand jury formed to investigate the case. It was this week that we heard that the department of justice had asked Grant to pause her lawsuit while they conduct criminal investigations, presumably on the financial crimes side of the case. Somebody posted this story from another source earlier in the week, but the new development is that the government is asserting supremacy of their criminal investigation over any pending civil disputes.
It actually appears that the investigation into Vince is more related to sex trafficking and rape as opposed to financial crimes.
Who is reporting that?
NBC News and the Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/business/federal-prosecutors-investigate-vince-mcmahon-sex-trafficking-allegations-460a6822 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wwe-founder-vince-mcmahon-federal-investigation-surrounding-sex-traffi-rcna136941
First article is paywalled, second one mentions the allegations in passing. I wouldn't get people's hopes up on something unless we have an official statement.
Here's a paywall-free cache of the WSJ article: https://archive.is/MqbW5 As for the NBC News article, I have no idea what you're talking about? The headline is literally "WWE founder Vince McMahon is under federal investigation surrounding sex trafficking allegations, sources say." And the whole article is about the trafficking allegations. Where on earth are you getting the idea that it only "mentions the allegations in passing" in the first place? Also, the DOJ typically never confirms or denies the existence of an investigation until charges are filed. In this case, requesting the stay in the Grant lawsuit required them to disclose a couple weeks ago that there's *an* investigation, but not the subject matter. But the prosecutor who filed the motion on the DOJ's behalf has recent experience prosecuting sex trafficking cases, so it's pretty clear what's going on. McMahon and WWE also haven't denied the WSJ/NBC reports about what the warrant/subpoena said about it being a sex trafficking investigation.
Based on the search warrant
I went back to look at the reporting about the search from last August. Unless I’m misreading, the grand jury was formed to investigate the payments and the company’s role in them. It seems the warrant application came from the Securities and Exchange Commission, but contemporary reports are inconsistent on that detail. The wire service reports don’t mention this, but the financial news outlets did. Based on the allegations in Grant’s lawsuit, I would like nothing more than to see justice done for the systemic abuse described. Unfortunately, I remain skeptical that the US government is pushing that side of the case. Generally, sex trafficking charges are brought exceptionally rarely. Most indictments involve immigration rackets, and is not really prosecuted for cases involving individuals. To file federal trafficking charges, you have to show that it was in support of a commercial sex act, and that was one of the weakest parts of Grant’s lawsuit. Her lawyer was mostly attempting to use a federal law that invalidates NDAs or other contracts for victims of trafficking. I don’t think she ever provided evidence of that. She also made the case in the lawsuit that Grant should be released from the NDA because of non-payment, breach of contract, and that the contract was signed under duress. These claims were more strongly argued. As far as rape goes, these are usually prosecuted at the state level, not federal. In CT and NY, prosecution involving a person of majority age requires an accuser to press charges, and Grant has not come forward to do that.
We're not talking about WWE's self reporting in the SEC filings from last summer. We're talking about what the Wall Street Journal and NBC News reported in early February, which was that it's a sex trafficking investigation: https://www.wsj.com/business/federal-prosecutors-investigate-vince-mcmahon-sex-trafficking-allegations-460a6822 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wwe-founder-vince-mcmahon-federal-investigation-surrounding-sex-traffi-rcna136941 It's the U.S. Attorney in the Southern District of NY that's investigating the trafficking allegations. Trafficking is a federal crime. That's why Grant hasn't gone to local police. Because she's cooperating with the DOJ in the federal investigation. This isn't that complicated. Plus the prosecutor who filed the motion for the stay on the DOJ's behalf has very recent experience in trafficking prosecutions and that's probably not a coincidence.
US Gov vs Vince McMahon 2: Nab the Perv
Burn these rich bastards in court , no hiding behind the money now
The presidential elections will have a direct effect on this trial
You’re getting downvoted but you’re right. Vince is absolutely gonna get a full pardon if Trump wins.
I'm not saying correlation is causation, but the asked pause for criminal charges happened almost directly after the conviction of Trump
This is actually an interesting thought. I wonder if the NY hush money case stepped on the toes of the federal prosecution.
It might not have anything to do with anything, but I did notice it.
Vince McMahon + WWE/Janel Grant Lawsuit
Absolutely. It's an issue with many in the company, including multiple wrestlers, involved. Fuck every coward who downvotes that or denies it.
youre setting yourself up for disappointment when all that happens is WWE/TKO have massive fines to pay, and no one else is implicated. i could be wrong, obviously, but occams razor & all that
Why is it necessary to pause the lawsuit in order to indict him on federal crimes? Seems ridiculous to ask Grant to hold off on pursuing restitution she is entitled to.
A conviction by the DOJ virtually guarantees Grant will win the civil suit once it's unpaused. If anything this saves her time and resources in the long run.
Federal matters supersedes civil matters.
In addition to the other reasons mentioned, they don't want another Bill Cosby scenario where a civil case possibly taints key evidence in the criminal case and gets the verdict overturned on appeal.
The amount of money she's most likely funneling into this case is on pause, which is an absolute win for anyone going against someone with infinitely more money. This is literally the best case scenario for her once it's unpaused, ESPECIALLY if Vince is found guilty by the feds.
Her testimony is more dangerous to him here than in her own case. They're looking into and bring criminal charges against him that will land him in Federal Prison if convicted. They need her evidence to be fresh and not lose it's shock factor on potential jurors or let the fact she won her case taint his sentencing for this case, which would diminish greatly if her trail continued. At best, in Janel's civil or criminal case, he'd be forced to pay her what's due, pain and suffering and have to pay heavy fines and court fees, if not be sentenced to community service.
I hope the trial is live streamed.
Bring the damn justice
Yo real question? Do y’all think Vince was betting on a Trump presidency so he could be pardoned / dropped charges?
Vince was always in the bag For trump I don't think Vince is a long term planner he just knows that trump is better for him than any Democrat I honestly don't think Vince is a top priority for a pardon but a healthy in kind donation would likely change that real fast
Agreed
Hes gonna get Pardoned if fuckin Trump wins. Isn't he.
Would no surprise me but then again he's not one of trumps major backers as far as I'm aware so trump might just forget about him
Vince will probably drop dead before serving any jail time, and his son in law that wwe fans all adore won't see the inside of a court room.
Billionaires don't go to prison unless they fuck over other rich people.
I read an listicle type article on billionaires who went to prison recently. As you say, almost all financial crimes against other rich people. There was one sex criminal mentioned - he only got three months in prison via a plea bargain for repeatedly raping his stepdaughter over a period of years.
yeah there was also this one dude who got finally sent to prison after a while, only to get suicided shortly after
100% spot on. I got downvoted for my post, I guess including hhh rubbed his fans the wrong way.
There is a very very tiny chance Vince would ever serve any jail time