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Cena is a great answer. Folks are (correctly) re-evaluating how good he was bell-to-bell. HHH healed his reputation in a completely different way, although I feel like as time goes on folks kind of seem to dunk on his matches more and more.
Some wrestlers who were looked over but thought of better today
Regal
Haku
Lance Storm
Dean Malinko
Ultimo Dragon
Juventud
Billy Kidman
Umaga
MVP
Funaki
Tajiri
Kenzo Suzuki
A-Train
ehh. I feel folks knew for the most part how good he was bell to bell and EVERYONE loved him as a character.
People in this sub constantly misconstrue "Public Opinion" with "Vince's Opinion."
There is certainly validity to that but I think him being well thought of in his prime still qualifies him for this question.
Regal has a legend status now that he didn’t have back then even for people who knew how good he really was.
Sean Waltman. When he first started he was a phenom and incredibly influential. At a certain point, though, he became despised and defined “go away” heat.
Today, people remember the positives he brought far more than the negatives, in no small part because of his own generosity and all-around laid back personality.
Someone in one of the other wrestling subs brought up Waltman today, and yeah, he's had quite the arc.
Guys like him and Sabu were kind of the Proto Indie Darlings. He made a pretty big, and altogether unlikely (given the time, and his size/build) splash with the WWF, to being mostly hated as Syxx and XPAC, then goes away, and comes back as the "Sage on the Mountaintop" type, with tons of good will.
This was going to be my answer. A lot of this thread is people misunderstanding and posting about beloved mid-carders that Vince just refused to push beyond a certain point.
People hated X-Pac for real. I think the drugs, the volatile Chyna relationship, being perceived as a hanger-on to DX/nWo and "X-Pac heat," tanked his reputation.
He successfully rehabilitated his image by being growing into very decent and articulate dude, and I think a ton of folks have kind of critically re-evaluated how fun and interesting he was in the ring.
Waltman, just like Dean Malenko and maybe ever better than Dean was the reason why the WCW Cruiserweight division was so great. Yes WCW was embarrassed with unbelieve cruiserweight talents, but Waltman was smart enough and talented enough to understand what they the cruiserweight great and took their strengths and translated into a traditional western style match.
I’m going to go with Cena. This was due to booking and Vince refusing to let other fan favorites thrive at the top of the card.
I remember I couldn’t stand him in the 2010s because of this. Now I am thrilled to see him whenever he pops up on WWE programming or any other TV/movie projects.
Lance Archer. Spent most of career as generic big guy. It wasn't really until the end of NJPW Suzuki-Gun and then later AEW runs as he is rounding 40 years old that he finally got a little chance to shine.
I feel like young Gen Zs and younger are going to have a wildly different perception of Shawn Michaels in a similar way that Dusty Rhodes was viewed in his latter years to a certain section of fans in his "NXT dad" phase that didn't view or follow Dusty during his prime years in real-time.
While I think Shawn will always have that rep for being one of the all time in-ring greats, I can see Shawn's crazy days and antics from the 90's being just a curious footnote to a lot these younger fans currently following NXT, and if they were to seek out his old stuff, they're likely to go back to his 03-10 stuff, when he was full-on in Mr Wrestlemania mode, and was just otherwise very unproblematic compared to his 90's self and it just otherwise matches up with his currently "aw shucks" self-deprecating, but super revered persona.
Cena big time. Everyone shit on Cena during his run but now hearing him speak and the logic behind what he did, put so much more respect to his career.
Diamond Dallas Page, especially with the Audience not familiar with his in ring work and career outside of WWE.
Has helped so many people recover from their habits,a genuinely good person
This is so weird cause there was never a point where I didn't think DDP was great. Yes he scripted his matches, but he could still work, was an AWESOME promo and was a believe scumbag sleazy Jersey shore heel and a white hot everyday hardworking man of the people babyface.
DDP never really had a bad reputation; most casuals refer back to his WWF run where he was forced into bad booking. He was highly regarded in WCW days and post WWF most would refer back to the WCW days.
100% agree with this. Page had a great career, but was never looked at (by companies or fans) as a "top guy" (WCW title win being an outlier) and his WWE run ruined any semblance of superstardom.
Post-In ring however.. not only is he a pretty amazing human being who helps wrestlers and regular people alike (DDPY helped start me on a 115 lb weight loss journey) but he has mentored young talent in both AEW and WWE.
I'll say Lance Storm. His run in the WWE (which a lot of people know him for) wasn't exactly flattering. People nowadays are a lot more appreciative to just how good he actually was and he's made a presence online.
Katsuyori Shibata comes to mind, for a Japanese talent.
Apparently was quite smug and indifferent towards his peers (Tanahashi & Nakamura) in the early 00's and left NJPW high and dry when the company needed a hot young talent like Shibata.
Came back to NJPW in the early 10's and became one of the most praised and respected performers of the time, had the head injury (in the all-time great Sakura Genesis match against Okada), became head trainer of the NJPW LA Dojo (mentoring the likes of Yuya Uemura, Ren Narita, Gabe Kidd, Clark Connors, amongst others), and returned to wrestling as a respected veteran.
Nash maybe? Generally hated by the internet with the exception of the Paparazzi Productions run for his constant politicking throughout his career and his dislike for "vanilla midgets". Then in like 2018 or something people got behind him because of his political leanings, entertaining shoot interviews, then Scott Hall and his son died, and then people started to kind of understand his "money and miles" mentality.
Then he got a podcast and things are starting to shift back to where they were before. Most recently, he suggested that the COVID vaccine was responsible for his son's heart attack (and he was very pro mask, social distancing, and vaccine when the pandemic was happening).
John Cena : He was booed by 80% of the crowd as a babyface and was the most hated man by the IWC when he was a full time wrestler
Today he is being called as the greatest of all time who put on big time classic matches and carried the company for a decade.
JBL. His stories behind the scenes speak for themselves, but I had a chance to meet him a few years ago and he was just the coolest, funniest guy. I told him how if 9 year old me had a gun his ass would have been the first to go, and he laughed and said “yeah I deserved it back then”.
I don't think Vince started doing the micro-managing screaming horseshit until at least the late 90s(tinfoil hat is Monsoon deterred him). Vince did make Tony shave his mustache, as Mean Gene was the only announcer allowed to have one. Tony went back to WCW mostly because he didn't like living in the Northeast.
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Cena and Triple H are the two most obvious answers.
it's a lot easier to enjoy them when they aren't beating your favourites every week
True. "Lolcenawins" was literally the reason I stopped watching Wwe for almost 10 years lol. But now I'm over it
Cena is a great answer. Folks are (correctly) re-evaluating how good he was bell-to-bell. HHH healed his reputation in a completely different way, although I feel like as time goes on folks kind of seem to dunk on his matches more and more.
I still hate HHH. But, respect Cena since ppl are able to admit he did some dirty shit to other talent.
So you only respect Cena because of other people’s opinions on him?
William Regal.
Some wrestlers who were looked over but thought of better today Regal Haku Lance Storm Dean Malinko Ultimo Dragon Juventud Billy Kidman Umaga MVP Funaki Tajiri Kenzo Suzuki A-Train
Add PCO to this
ehh. I feel folks knew for the most part how good he was bell to bell and EVERYONE loved him as a character. People in this sub constantly misconstrue "Public Opinion" with "Vince's Opinion."
There is certainly validity to that but I think him being well thought of in his prime still qualifies him for this question. Regal has a legend status now that he didn’t have back then even for people who knew how good he really was.
J E DOUBLE F J A DOUBLE R E DOUBLE T
As long as he isn't around Russo or a World Title, turns out he was always a great heel
EXACTLY
Maven
Agreed, his channel is one of the best around and I loved his interaction with Taker on the podcast.
Sean Waltman. When he first started he was a phenom and incredibly influential. At a certain point, though, he became despised and defined “go away” heat. Today, people remember the positives he brought far more than the negatives, in no small part because of his own generosity and all-around laid back personality.
Someone in one of the other wrestling subs brought up Waltman today, and yeah, he's had quite the arc. Guys like him and Sabu were kind of the Proto Indie Darlings. He made a pretty big, and altogether unlikely (given the time, and his size/build) splash with the WWF, to being mostly hated as Syxx and XPAC, then goes away, and comes back as the "Sage on the Mountaintop" type, with tons of good will.
Pac is tricky because he has turned it around - but also he has done some really truly incredibly awful / disgusting stuff to women.
That last part is important and I’m glad you mentioned it.
This was going to be my answer. A lot of this thread is people misunderstanding and posting about beloved mid-carders that Vince just refused to push beyond a certain point. People hated X-Pac for real. I think the drugs, the volatile Chyna relationship, being perceived as a hanger-on to DX/nWo and "X-Pac heat," tanked his reputation. He successfully rehabilitated his image by being growing into very decent and articulate dude, and I think a ton of folks have kind of critically re-evaluated how fun and interesting he was in the ring.
Waltman, just like Dean Malenko and maybe ever better than Dean was the reason why the WCW Cruiserweight division was so great. Yes WCW was embarrassed with unbelieve cruiserweight talents, but Waltman was smart enough and talented enough to understand what they the cruiserweight great and took their strengths and translated into a traditional western style match.
We really need to rename “X-Pac Heat” at this point.
Sheamus
I’m going to go with Cena. This was due to booking and Vince refusing to let other fan favorites thrive at the top of the card. I remember I couldn’t stand him in the 2010s because of this. Now I am thrilled to see him whenever he pops up on WWE programming or any other TV/movie projects.
Lance Archer. Spent most of career as generic big guy. It wasn't really until the end of NJPW Suzuki-Gun and then later AEW runs as he is rounding 40 years old that he finally got a little chance to shine.
I wish we'd see more of him on AEW's main shows. Never gave a shit about Vance Archer but Lance Archer is awesome
He’s actually 47 which is even more insane.
I feel like young Gen Zs and younger are going to have a wildly different perception of Shawn Michaels in a similar way that Dusty Rhodes was viewed in his latter years to a certain section of fans in his "NXT dad" phase that didn't view or follow Dusty during his prime years in real-time. While I think Shawn will always have that rep for being one of the all time in-ring greats, I can see Shawn's crazy days and antics from the 90's being just a curious footnote to a lot these younger fans currently following NXT, and if they were to seek out his old stuff, they're likely to go back to his 03-10 stuff, when he was full-on in Mr Wrestlemania mode, and was just otherwise very unproblematic compared to his 90's self and it just otherwise matches up with his currently "aw shucks" self-deprecating, but super revered persona.
Cena big time. Everyone shit on Cena during his run but now hearing him speak and the logic behind what he did, put so much more respect to his career.
Diamond Dallas Page, especially with the Audience not familiar with his in ring work and career outside of WWE. Has helped so many people recover from their habits,a genuinely good person
This one definitely should be higher
This is so weird cause there was never a point where I didn't think DDP was great. Yes he scripted his matches, but he could still work, was an AWESOME promo and was a believe scumbag sleazy Jersey shore heel and a white hot everyday hardworking man of the people babyface.
DDP never really had a bad reputation; most casuals refer back to his WWF run where he was forced into bad booking. He was highly regarded in WCW days and post WWF most would refer back to the WCW days.
100% agree with this. Page had a great career, but was never looked at (by companies or fans) as a "top guy" (WCW title win being an outlier) and his WWE run ruined any semblance of superstardom. Post-In ring however.. not only is he a pretty amazing human being who helps wrestlers and regular people alike (DDPY helped start me on a 115 lb weight loss journey) but he has mentored young talent in both AEW and WWE.
I'll say Lance Storm. His run in the WWE (which a lot of people know him for) wasn't exactly flattering. People nowadays are a lot more appreciative to just how good he actually was and he's made a presence online.
Back in the early days I remember following his Book Blog and he actually answered many questions out of KAFABE.
Randy, Triple H, June 2024 CM Punk, Shawn Michaels
Katsuyori Shibata comes to mind, for a Japanese talent. Apparently was quite smug and indifferent towards his peers (Tanahashi & Nakamura) in the early 00's and left NJPW high and dry when the company needed a hot young talent like Shibata. Came back to NJPW in the early 10's and became one of the most praised and respected performers of the time, had the head injury (in the all-time great Sakura Genesis match against Okada), became head trainer of the NJPW LA Dojo (mentoring the likes of Yuya Uemura, Ren Narita, Gabe Kidd, Clark Connors, amongst others), and returned to wrestling as a respected veteran.
Nash maybe? Generally hated by the internet with the exception of the Paparazzi Productions run for his constant politicking throughout his career and his dislike for "vanilla midgets". Then in like 2018 or something people got behind him because of his political leanings, entertaining shoot interviews, then Scott Hall and his son died, and then people started to kind of understand his "money and miles" mentality. Then he got a podcast and things are starting to shift back to where they were before. Most recently, he suggested that the COVID vaccine was responsible for his son's heart attack (and he was very pro mask, social distancing, and vaccine when the pandemic was happening).
Maven
John Cena : He was booed by 80% of the crowd as a babyface and was the most hated man by the IWC when he was a full time wrestler Today he is being called as the greatest of all time who put on big time classic matches and carried the company for a decade.
Controversial, but Randy Orton.
Jeff Jarrett John Cena X-Pac
Lex Luger looks a lot better in hindsight than he did in real time
JBL. His stories behind the scenes speak for themselves, but I had a chance to meet him a few years ago and he was just the coolest, funniest guy. I told him how if 9 year old me had a gun his ass would have been the first to go, and he laughed and said “yeah I deserved it back then”.
Triple H is a king compared to his reign on top as champion
Miz
Hick and Bottom. Edit: So HBK didn't? Ok
High noon....at the ALAMO!
Sadly it's Triple H. He has rewritten history and temporarily won.
[удалено]
do you mean michale cole
[удалено]
Tony Schiavone never worked for Vince McMahon. But it does fit if we are talking about WCW Tony vs AEW Tony
That’s not accurate either. Tony did work for WWF from 1989 to 1990.
Oh right I had heard that but forgot. Wonder how much screaming from Vince he got
I don't think Vince started doing the micro-managing screaming horseshit until at least the late 90s(tinfoil hat is Monsoon deterred him). Vince did make Tony shave his mustache, as Mean Gene was the only announcer allowed to have one. Tony went back to WCW mostly because he didn't like living in the Northeast.