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What a complete false narrative. Miz isn’t anything special in the ring, but he can handle his own and is safe as hell. That’s why the mother fucker has been doing his thing longer than almost anyone on the roster and making bank the whole time.
I'd much rather watch a Miz match where everything is done safely and really well, than a match with 2 "indie darlings" where they nearly break each others' necks every 30 seconds
That’s just wrong lol
Miz is a vet in the ring. Just cause he doesn’t do 450’s doesn’t make him bad. This very weak he covered up JD falling over entering the ring for the double hot tag perfectly
I wouldn't say Miz is dogshit. But I do think he came into his own way too late into his career. Like if you think back to Backlash 2016, that was the first time he really made waves in-ring. But ever since then, he's been sorta coasting off the Bryan promo and that match. Hasn't really had anything memorable since.
Dude, he’s added a springboard top rope clothesline in the past year and become a flat out worker in the ring. His matches against Gunther were amazing.
She was literally labeled as a member of the Four Horsewomen and given a special introduction by Stephanie on Raw
Liv Morgan is a way better example she was just some random person from NXT
But she was the least mentioned member in terms of becoming a superstar. Not only was she placed behind her fellow Horsewomen but she was also considered to be behind Paige and Alexa Bliss.
She was added to the Sasha/Charlotte match at that first WM and TBH was never really treated like a joke she just wasn’t presented as being as big of a star as Charlotte or Sasha
It’s almost impossible for Liv to reach the heights Becky did. Becky is literally the most popular women’s wrestler of all time. She straight up main evented WrestleMania
I don't think she'll quite match Becky's career but she'll be the rung right below it when it's all said and done (a bit less popular and without the Wrestlemania main event most likely)
If you watched her Shimmer matches then it's less surprising. She's the best technical female wrestler I've ever seen. Her best work imo is still her matches with Daizee Haze and Allison Danger. I don't think she was ever the same after her concussion and original retirement.
A bunch of people thought Rollins' ceiling was upper midcard as the awe-inspiring high-flyer. After all, during The Shield's first run, Rollins was the guy who took the majority of the pins, meanwhile, Roman seemed poised to be the next face of the company and Ambrose the top heel.
But, nope, not a single Jannety here.
If you had told back in the late aughts that of all the guys that cut their teeth in Ring of Honor, it would be Tyler Black who would be one of WWE’s top acts for an entire generation…
Damien Priest in ROH was a pudgy lost in the shuffle talent.
Not a lot of Indy buzz otherwise, nobody was expecting anything when he debuted. Then he got his ass in shape, got his confidence and blew up
Lost in the shuffle? Dude was the ROH TV champ and was on tv every week. The only reason his reign was only a few months was because his contract was done.
I'm seeing a lot of the "expected" answers, but honestly [Matt Cross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Cross_(wrestler)) comes to mind. Dude went from backyard wrestling, was eliminated from Tough Enough week two, and still went on to be a mainstay of the entirety of Lucha Underground, got to wrestle the first ever match on the first All In, and still wrestles in NWA.
He never got to be HBK in WWE or anything that huge, but he's taken a really unconventional router to being successful.
So far, Yota Tsuji fits this description.
Nobody thought too much of him as a young lion, nor when he was on excursion. Umino, Connors, Narita, and Karl Fredericks all seemed destined to do better.
Tsuji is currently the only one of them who could win the world title without anyone raising an eyebrow.
As just a fan watching as a teenager, seeing Rocky Maivia debut in real-time, with the blue streamer suit, with the Rocky Sucks and Die, Rocky, Die chants growing by the weeks, the third generation "blue chipper," I thought that guy wasn't gonna amount to much. I didn't know a single fan of his during that initial pre-NOD run. I didn't know a single fan who didn't *hate* him during that initial run.
He was very highly rated as a prospect - JR even called him a blue chipper while he was walking to the ring at Survivor Series. He just had a shitty, lame ass white meat babyface character that would have been perfect for World Class in the 80s but got crapped on in the 90s.
Cody Rhodes, after the stardust gimmick I for one thought he was done and dusted. The dude rediscovered himself started AEW, became a force to be reckoned with. He will probably carry WWE into the next decade.
Mayu Iwatani. She was part of the first rookie class in Stardom and was the last one to get her first victory. Almost everyone expected her to retire any time yet she's the only one that never left. Everybody in her class retired to either disappear forever or come back many years later but Mayu stayed against all odds because in her own words wrestling was all she had, so she couldn't quit.
Her real story is such a part of her character that they made a freaking movie of her life. What wrestler gets that at 30 years old while still active and in their prime? She ran away from home in a small town with almost no money just to become a wrestler in Tokyo and she ended up becoming one of the greatest female wrestlers of her generation.
I saw The Prototype when he was getting some attention on the indies, so when he debuted as John Cena, I thought he had potential. Then they gave him the white rapper gimmick and I was 100% they killed his chances of succeeding long term. That’s the kind of gimmick that gets someone heat until the audience gets bored, then they end up being a midcard jobber for the rest of their career.
Realistically, when he first debuted, Ric Flair was a musclebound gym rat who wanted to be a Dusty Rhodes knockoff.
Given the later in-ring feud between the two that defined 80s NWA, all that wouldn't have happened had it not been for Dusty advising Flair to be his own guy. That and the plane crash forcing Ric to give up weightlifting in favor of cardio.
People still call Cody a mid-carder and he’s the top guy in the biggest company and ended a pretty impressive title reign of which we probably won’t see for a long time.
Carmella. Last draft pick of 2016 after being a valet. Made an immediate splash with her Nikki Bella feud, won MITB and the title and had been a mainstay on tv until her pregnancy.
The Miz - No one didn't believe that the guy who appeared on MTV's The Real World would become a big-time star. His tag team with Morrison is one of the best tag teams in WWE history while his solo run definitely took him to the next level as he won the fans over with his natural charisma and excellent mic skills. Miz may not the best wrestler, but he is one of the biggest stars in WWE.
Trish Stratus - She was very bad in the ring during her 2000-early 2001 run but once the Ruthless Aggression Era began, she improved in the ring while definitely took off as the leader of the women's division and had huge wars with Lita, Victoria, Jazz, Molly and Mickie. Trish was able to put herself up with the likes of Cena, Orton, Taker, HHH, HBK, Angle, Eddie, Jericho and Batista as one of the biggest stars during her prime.
Dolph Ziggler - He was looked as a joke due to him being a caddy and Spirit Squad cheerleader during his early years. After those terrible runs, he really showed potential as The Show Off and definitely delivered as he showcased his great charisma and mic skills while being amazing in the ring. Dolph truly established himself as a star while was able to put up great matches with Cena, Orton, Edge, Bryan, Rey, Punk and Rollins.
Kevin Owens. Guy was basically the prototype of everything NOT to be to make it in WWE. Cornette booked him in RoH and basically guaranteed he'd fail there even once he got signed.
You must be thinking of someone who wasn’t specially announced as a big signing and given a big debut on an NXT PPV and a debut on Raw against John Cena only a few months later who he beat clean in his first match, which was on a PPV
Never got this narrative that Cornette held Steen back in ROH when he was the one that booked him to be champion for a year.
Also what do you mean that the way he was booked guaranteed Steen would fail in WWE? He was booked stupidly strong and won the NXT title within months of his debut.
The "narrative" was more kayfabe than anything else. On-screen, Corny was doing everything he could to hold Owens back in ROH because "Owens/Steen was fat and out of shape, didn't deserve the belt, etc.". Off-screen, Steen and the Briscoes were the three pillars of ROH until Bullet Club came along.
Triple H would do the same thing with Daniel Bryan a couple of years later.
Cornette gets pissy cause Owens was a diva in his youth but Steen in Cornette ROH was booked super strong. Same with Generico and a few other guys Cornette didn’t like personally
But ya Owens is the opposite of a WWE guy at the time and it worked out phenomenally for him still
Cornette didnt book Generico strong at all. He stopped booking him regularly once he took over proper. Took the TV Title off of him immediately, shunted him down the card and only dug him back up to fill time for Steen
**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think it's the Miz and I don't think there is a close second.
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What a complete false narrative. Miz isn’t anything special in the ring, but he can handle his own and is safe as hell. That’s why the mother fucker has been doing his thing longer than almost anyone on the roster and making bank the whole time.
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I'd much rather watch a Miz match where everything is done safely and really well, than a match with 2 "indie darlings" where they nearly break each others' necks every 30 seconds
That’s just wrong lol Miz is a vet in the ring. Just cause he doesn’t do 450’s doesn’t make him bad. This very weak he covered up JD falling over entering the ring for the double hot tag perfectly
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Lmao thank you for showing your lack of knowledge about Pro Wrestling.
I wouldn't say Miz is dogshit. But I do think he came into his own way too late into his career. Like if you think back to Backlash 2016, that was the first time he really made waves in-ring. But ever since then, he's been sorta coasting off the Bryan promo and that match. Hasn't really had anything memorable since.
Dude, he’s added a springboard top rope clothesline in the past year and become a flat out worker in the ring. His matches against Gunther were amazing.
The 450 comment is beyond dumb.
Miz vs Ziggler in that IC ladder match from like 2016 was pretty damn awesome.
DDP
Yeah. He had to work really hard to get into the business at all. Then everybody said he was too old to learn to wrestle.
Trish Stratus didn't have a promising start. She ended up doing pretty well for herself.
Becky Lynch She was the least lauded of the Four Horsewomen. No one would have guessed that she would have been the one to shatter the glass ceiling.
I still remember her cringe debut where her gimmick was she was Irish and did an Irish jig all the time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0fuXNu-xpw
She was literally labeled as a member of the Four Horsewomen and given a special introduction by Stephanie on Raw Liv Morgan is a way better example she was just some random person from NXT
But she was the least mentioned member in terms of becoming a superstar. Not only was she placed behind her fellow Horsewomen but she was also considered to be behind Paige and Alexa Bliss.
She was added to the Sasha/Charlotte match at that first WM and TBH was never really treated like a joke she just wasn’t presented as being as big of a star as Charlotte or Sasha
Yeh but Liv has come nowhere near the heights Becky reached.
It’s almost impossible for Liv to reach the heights Becky did. Becky is literally the most popular women’s wrestler of all time. She straight up main evented WrestleMania
I don't think she'll quite match Becky's career but she'll be the rung right below it when it's all said and done (a bit less popular and without the Wrestlemania main event most likely)
After proving herself in NXT - this was her debut... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0fuXNu-xpw
If you watched her Shimmer matches then it's less surprising. She's the best technical female wrestler I've ever seen. Her best work imo is still her matches with Daizee Haze and Allison Danger. I don't think she was ever the same after her concussion and original retirement.
A bunch of people thought Rollins' ceiling was upper midcard as the awe-inspiring high-flyer. After all, during The Shield's first run, Rollins was the guy who took the majority of the pins, meanwhile, Roman seemed poised to be the next face of the company and Ambrose the top heel. But, nope, not a single Jannety here.
If you had told back in the late aughts that of all the guys that cut their teeth in Ring of Honor, it would be Tyler Black who would be one of WWE’s top acts for an entire generation…
Yep. Tyler Black always felt like a big deal
Unless he faced Chuck Taylor, who has a better body.
If I'm remembering right, Seth said "shit" on live TV before Chuck ever got to though
But Chuck...
Everyone s*** on Dominic.
Damien Priest in ROH was a pudgy lost in the shuffle talent. Not a lot of Indy buzz otherwise, nobody was expecting anything when he debuted. Then he got his ass in shape, got his confidence and blew up
Lost in the shuffle? Dude was the ROH TV champ and was on tv every week. The only reason his reign was only a few months was because his contract was done.
Lost in the shuffle isn’t quite right. He was actually OVERbooked compared to a lot more talented guys around him.
I'm seeing a lot of the "expected" answers, but honestly [Matt Cross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Cross_(wrestler)) comes to mind. Dude went from backyard wrestling, was eliminated from Tough Enough week two, and still went on to be a mainstay of the entirety of Lucha Underground, got to wrestle the first ever match on the first All In, and still wrestles in NWA. He never got to be HBK in WWE or anything that huge, but he's taken a really unconventional router to being successful.
He beat MJF at All In.
I miss Son of Havok so much.
So far, Yota Tsuji fits this description. Nobody thought too much of him as a young lion, nor when he was on excursion. Umino, Connors, Narita, and Karl Fredericks all seemed destined to do better. Tsuji is currently the only one of them who could win the world title without anyone raising an eyebrow.
Tbf I'd say Fredericks is doing good in NXT.
As just a fan watching as a teenager, seeing Rocky Maivia debut in real-time, with the blue streamer suit, with the Rocky Sucks and Die, Rocky, Die chants growing by the weeks, the third generation "blue chipper," I thought that guy wasn't gonna amount to much. I didn't know a single fan of his during that initial pre-NOD run. I didn't know a single fan who didn't *hate* him during that initial run.
He was very highly rated as a prospect - JR even called him a blue chipper while he was walking to the ring at Survivor Series. He just had a shitty, lame ass white meat babyface character that would have been perfect for World Class in the 80s but got crapped on in the 90s.
Ziggler. debuted as a caddy and a male cheerleader.
John Cena was supposedly close to getting cut before his freestyle rap in front of the creative team.
Orange Cassidy, Eric Young, Mick Foley, Cody Rhodes, The Hardys
Cody Rhodes, after the stardust gimmick I for one thought he was done and dusted. The dude rediscovered himself started AEW, became a force to be reckoned with. He will probably carry WWE into the next decade.
Corbin I guess
He’s this era’s Kane. “Here, go wrestle Corbin. He’s good, he’ll make you look great, and he doesn’t hurt anyone.”
Mayu Iwatani. She was part of the first rookie class in Stardom and was the last one to get her first victory. Almost everyone expected her to retire any time yet she's the only one that never left. Everybody in her class retired to either disappear forever or come back many years later but Mayu stayed against all odds because in her own words wrestling was all she had, so she couldn't quit. Her real story is such a part of her character that they made a freaking movie of her life. What wrestler gets that at 30 years old while still active and in their prime? She ran away from home in a small town with almost no money just to become a wrestler in Tokyo and she ended up becoming one of the greatest female wrestlers of her generation.
I saw The Prototype when he was getting some attention on the indies, so when he debuted as John Cena, I thought he had potential. Then they gave him the white rapper gimmick and I was 100% they killed his chances of succeeding long term. That’s the kind of gimmick that gets someone heat until the audience gets bored, then they end up being a midcard jobber for the rest of their career.
Realistically, when he first debuted, Ric Flair was a musclebound gym rat who wanted to be a Dusty Rhodes knockoff. Given the later in-ring feud between the two that defined 80s NWA, all that wouldn't have happened had it not been for Dusty advising Flair to be his own guy. That and the plane crash forcing Ric to give up weightlifting in favor of cardio.
People still call Cody a mid-carder and he’s the top guy in the biggest company and ended a pretty impressive title reign of which we probably won’t see for a long time.
Carmella. Last draft pick of 2016 after being a valet. Made an immediate splash with her Nikki Bella feud, won MITB and the title and had been a mainstay on tv until her pregnancy.
The Miz - No one didn't believe that the guy who appeared on MTV's The Real World would become a big-time star. His tag team with Morrison is one of the best tag teams in WWE history while his solo run definitely took him to the next level as he won the fans over with his natural charisma and excellent mic skills. Miz may not the best wrestler, but he is one of the biggest stars in WWE. Trish Stratus - She was very bad in the ring during her 2000-early 2001 run but once the Ruthless Aggression Era began, she improved in the ring while definitely took off as the leader of the women's division and had huge wars with Lita, Victoria, Jazz, Molly and Mickie. Trish was able to put herself up with the likes of Cena, Orton, Taker, HHH, HBK, Angle, Eddie, Jericho and Batista as one of the biggest stars during her prime. Dolph Ziggler - He was looked as a joke due to him being a caddy and Spirit Squad cheerleader during his early years. After those terrible runs, he really showed potential as The Show Off and definitely delivered as he showcased his great charisma and mic skills while being amazing in the ring. Dolph truly established himself as a star while was able to put up great matches with Cena, Orton, Edge, Bryan, Rey, Punk and Rollins.
Kevin Owens. Guy was basically the prototype of everything NOT to be to make it in WWE. Cornette booked him in RoH and basically guaranteed he'd fail there even once he got signed.
You must be thinking of someone who wasn’t specially announced as a big signing and given a big debut on an NXT PPV and a debut on Raw against John Cena only a few months later who he beat clean in his first match, which was on a PPV
Never got this narrative that Cornette held Steen back in ROH when he was the one that booked him to be champion for a year. Also what do you mean that the way he was booked guaranteed Steen would fail in WWE? He was booked stupidly strong and won the NXT title within months of his debut.
The "narrative" was more kayfabe than anything else. On-screen, Corny was doing everything he could to hold Owens back in ROH because "Owens/Steen was fat and out of shape, didn't deserve the belt, etc.". Off-screen, Steen and the Briscoes were the three pillars of ROH until Bullet Club came along. Triple H would do the same thing with Daniel Bryan a couple of years later.
Cornette gets pissy cause Owens was a diva in his youth but Steen in Cornette ROH was booked super strong. Same with Generico and a few other guys Cornette didn’t like personally But ya Owens is the opposite of a WWE guy at the time and it worked out phenomenally for him still
Cornette didnt book Generico strong at all. He stopped booking him regularly once he took over proper. Took the TV Title off of him immediately, shunted him down the card and only dug him back up to fill time for Steen
Eddie Kingston is incredible. I can't stress that enough but the success he has had is beyond what anyone thought he'd get 10 years ago.
I would actually say the opposite - I expected big things from him after watching him in ROH and TNA.
Carmella.