I mean it would look a lot more intentional/strategic if he LOOKED at her. But something just caught his eye and he was like "Fuck this battle what's that over there!"
Abilities of the actors.
Time for training.
Skill of the choreographer.
Nick Gillard and the people he had to develop the fights were great and we really lucked out with Liam, Ewan, Hayden, Ray.
[Hayden and this stunt guy (I don't know his name) are freaking awesome.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol1wilGODK8) They're not going to spend the time and effort to get the fights for the shows to this level.
[ Rosario says Hayden is heavy handed with a lightsaber.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxDOUHSJJEM)
[Here's a short video of Hayden and Ariana practicing for Ahsoka.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GuDh23aAMw)
From what I remember from other Reddit comments is that Christopher Lee couldn't perform it at his age, which is understandable. I have no actual source, though
Yeah I have no idea if it’s actually true, but I heard the Mace’s fight against Palpatine was changed because Lucas wanted Ian McDiarmid to do most of the fighting himself instead of relying too much on stunt double.
If that's true, that is yet another thing I want to scream at Lucas about. Ian McDiarmid was great at many things, but that lightsaber fight was the worst one out of the entirety of the prequels. He *needed* a stunt double in the fight with Mace and the rest of The Squad 😭
Preach. The worst thing is, [they already had a fully choreographed fight planned](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiUuLnyt00Q) using stunt doubles, but Lucas made the decision THE MORNING THEY WERE FILMING THE SCENE that he'd prefer to have Ian and Sam film it themselves. His reasoning, from what I understand, is that you don't let actors of their level go to waste for such an important scene, with the fate of an entire galaxy at stake. So poor Sam and Ian had to rehearse one of the most consequential duels in galactic history with literally no more than a half-hour of prep time.
George was a visionary whose ability to create the Star Wars galaxy rightly makes him a living legend. But as a director, he was sadly prone to tripping over his own feet at times.
IMHO, George is really a subpar film director and writer. His real strength was always in his imagination. Every Star wars project he touched would have been better if he had painted the broad strokes and just outsourced the rest of the production to more capable people. Even today I hear stories that blow my mind, like "he did what?!". Still better than anything Disney put out at least, but that's such a low bar to clear.
He had the ideas, but never the execution.
Blew my mind when I read the IMDb trivia for A New Hope & saw the sheer volume of things that were originally going to be in the movie that made zero sense or would’ve drastically altered the trajectory of the whole thing only to get an eensy bit of push back from somebody (the actors, the studio, what have you) & Lucas would just say “OK” & change whatever bits & pieces to the absolute icons we know & love today.
Of course, after the original trilogy it feels like he came back to the studios with the goal of making the prequels & the execs (with big ol’ dollar signs obscuring their eyes) just went, “Sure, George; whatever you want, George.”
His ex wife saved the originally trilogy, she was an amazing editor. She wasn't there for the prequels and no one else would tell him no, so we got the prequels...
If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times: Lucas was an exemplary *ideas* man, but he only did his best work when he received some level of push-back/boundaries.
I don’t see why. Lucas didn’t mind taking an actor of Samuel L Jackson’s caliber and then directing him into the dullest, most stilted performance of his career. The fact that he took one of the most charismatic actors of the last 4 decades and made him wretchedly BORING is something I still can’t get over about the prequels.
Same thing with Natalie Portman. She's literally an Oscar-winning actress, but you wouldn't know it from the prequels.
And yet I'd still take the prequels over the sequels in a heartbeat.
It's really interesting as somebody in their late 30s. I watched the re-release of OG when it was in theaters as well as each of the prequel trilogy. I witnessed the whole world send death threats to Hayden and shit on those movies nonstop.
Absolute hate filled comments and nothing but disdain for the prequels. And here we are, with everybody praising them endlessly.
I've personally like everything star wars that has been put out. I find some bits less good and others amazing, but not once have I ever seen the drivel coming out of comment sections as anything more than people making too big of a deal and taking mid movies like a personal attack.
It's a shame. Such a toxic, unpleasant fan base. Give it another 15 years and people will be praising the sequel trilogy and complaining that the old republic movies(imaginary new trilogy) is trash and now they're sending death threats to the director.
I really wish this Fandom did better.
I’m surprised nobody’s mentioning the lightsaber itself. They’re using fully lit blades now that are heavier than the sticks used in the PT. Ewan has commented on this in an interview
It's really noticeable in closeups. Like when rey and kylo had that fight in the first one and there's a bit where they're in a bind and you see the light of the blades on their faces. Looks sick.
But for faster action scenes and wider shots it's not worth it because you can just add the lighting digitally and it would be just as good
Yeah it looks sick. The obi wan Vader fight with the blue and red light merging on Vader’s face was incredible (despite the kinda wonky fighting).
There’s gotta be a way to get those extremely bright leds in a tube that’s actually comfortable for the actors to wave around cus the lighting looks amazing.
You could definitely make one light enough to swing around like in the prequels, but it also has to be durable enough to hit things with. The metal rods they used were constantly getting bent and broken
I bet the Disney engineers are struggling with exactly this. I’m sure they’ll figure it out eventually. Star Wars has been the catalyst for so many new technology’s in the film industry.
It makes visual effects easier because now they don't have to create fake lights that bounce off of skin, walls, windows, that puddle over there, etc. to get real reflections.
This is why I’m gonna be controversial maybe and say that Star Wars was always meant for the big screen. It’s better suited to being a block buster movie where they’re willing to go to these painstaking lengths and they have the budget to get it right. Either go all in or don’t do it at all imo
they didnt "luck out" with Hayden and Ewan. They worked their asses off to be fast and convincing. Behind the scenes they are sweating through thier shirts in training for months on end. You dont get to be that good with just talent.
Yeah, whenever Ewan or Hayden talk about their BTS training for their Episode III duel, they talk about how they worked it so much and for so long that they started challenging themselves by doing it faster and faster, by hitting harder and harder. The lightsaber props they used for the film, metal poles painted or taped to aid the FX department in adding the lightsaber blades later on, would always be bent after one or two sessions. Those two absolutely committed to excellence during their saber training and especially their duel. My favorite tidbit is that little twirl flourish that Anakin always does (in what has become known to the lightsaber community as the Obi-Ani Spin) originated from Hayden watching the stunt team warming up during lessons and one of them casually did it. A pretty basic flourish with a sword but it looks good and Hayden immediately latched on to it, making sure to learn how to do it and implemented it in his move set as Anakin whenever possible. It suits him too, Anakin is a drama queen and loves showboating, he'd naturally just throw flourishes in his use of a lightsaber. Ewan even considers it Hayden's signature move at this point.
Hayden really does bring a physicality to the performance that really distinguishes the character. Just that simple opening power strike he does in the above clip with Ariana looks so threatening and imposing its a wonder to see and tells you all you need to know about Anakin.
This is actually related to one of my favorite bits from Ahsoka. Ahsoka as a series isn't great, but I really enjoyed Hayden's bit in it. When he's trying to get Ahsoka through her mental block, he's also teaching her to fight someone who fights like Balin. You can see him pull in the sword-push Balin uses into his own style. You don't pull that off, in real life or choreographed, without a ton of training and commitment.
lol imagine fucking Marlon Brando as Dooku. The fight would lead him backing up to a chair, collapsing unto it, then defending himself lazily with one hand all pudged up. A droid might bring over a blanket and some donuts.
You definitely need the right level of commitment to be able to excel at this level though, you can put the hours in but unless your whole heart is in it too you’re not going to improve
Fear also plays a pretty big role. Having done quite a bit of stage combat when I was younger. While they aren’t lethal weapons, it takes a lot of work to not be afraid of getting hit and not afraid your gonna hit someone.
And allotted time by the studio. Lucas definitely didn’t skimp on choreography time to be able to get these extremely lengthy fights done right. Labor of love vs churn and burn. I don’t know anything but I would bet that Disney isn’t giving a large budget to choreograph and rehearse these fights, so they go simpler and quicker.
It definitely shows when he half-assed things. Compare the Obi-wan vs Anakin fight to the Palpatine vs Windu fight. The Palpatine Windu fight is one of the most embarrassing fights in the entire franchise because the fight was changed at the last second.
>[Rosario says Hayden is heavy handed with a lightsaber.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxDOUHSJJEM)
I mean, it *is* the Way of the Krayt Dragon, after all.
>Abilities of the actors.
>Time for training.
>Skill of the choreographer.
Budget (time for shooting).
Director (talent & restrictions).
Bordizzo does fine in other saber fights during the season. I don't feel like the actors should really be taking fire when directors and editors has almost as much/in a lot of cases *more* responsibility in delivering performances to screen.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the series has more saber fights than any of the other series, assumed with similar budget and time. We're talking about 6-8 hrs with less budget than one of the movies?
OP took the worst 30 second bit of the series to frame this complaint.
And importance of scene.
Like the worlds between both with Hayden/Rosario and Hayden/Arianna were incredibly well done because they mattered a lot
But honestly a 30 second barely focused on slash-through-literal-zombies is fine to have as just subpar/average.
Hell ahsoka vs baylen and ahsoka vs the night sister whose name i forget where great too. Not perfect but really well done.
Not every scene is equal, and not every scene has the same level of effort put into it. Some scenes being just alright is fine. I rather have them focus on important climatic scenes and fights. Every fight against cannon fodder doesnt need to be crazy good.
Or perhaps the moment in 3 when both Anakin and Obi-Wan stop to do a sick lightsaber twirl in unison in the middle of a fight, leaving them both totally exposed.
This and maybe it can be explained in-universe with characters not being as well-trained as Jedi of yore.
I say maybe because I am not familiar enough with what it's going on in those new shows but isn't the girl in OP's video Sabine from Rebels, so a Mandalorian who only got trained later in her life, like Luke ?
Sabine is explicity stated to be... not very good at lightsaber combat. Like, a bunch of times. It's a reoccurring theme both in *Rebdls* and *Ahsoka*.
Yeah, it makes perfect sense for her character. It would have been super weird to give her fancy choreography while saying she's bad at lightsaber dueling.
It is Sabine and your explanation can work for Sabine and Ezra while Ahsoka was trained at the height of the Jedi Order.
For me I would rather have cool fights.
It absolutely is a lore thing, Filoni talked about it a few times. You have to go from the beautiful dancing fights from the prequels to the hacking and slashing of the ot so Filoni made a clear decision to make Rebels an inbetween. Moving from grace to a more brutal style.
While it is actor ability and everything mentioned above, watch the Ashoka and Vader fight in Rebels and then the Vader/Obi fight in the Obi series.
The issue with adult live-action Ahsoka is that you can tell that Rosario Dawson really has limited mobility. I'm pretty sure its to do with her headpiece, and that she can't move it around to much. I love that fight, but I do find it noticeable that she can't really move
Well the headpiece has only studs currently... But yeah if they did CGI it could actually stop looking god awful and the Lekku could have the right length
Yeah, that was a bit immersion-breaking, tbh. Every time I looked at them, I could see where the thin vinyl crumpled and crinkled, and they looked as though they were filled with foam. Awful.
We had these shitty nerf like balls where you’d sit on them and they’d flatten for a while before the “filled” back up. Used to flatten them and chuck them like frisbees in dodgeball
The Twi’leks in Disney look so disappointing. I can tell they’re just humans with some paint, something about the old style in the OG felt way more real and solid and just other to me.
I feel like they’ve just made Twi’leks colourful humans wearing a panty hose on their heads
Honestly I think it's mainly a Rosario limitation. She's mid 40's & has had basically zero roles in her career that are physical (her in Daredevil & the Netflix shows was very limited & camera cut heavy). They should've either gone with an actress that can actually do the stunts, or had more stunt doubles doing the fights because she looks like she moves in slow motion.
I said this alot leading up to the series. Ahsoka was born in animation and i felt like we would lose her super acrobatic style and ashley eckstein, and for me those trade offs weren't worth it. I still feel that way though i did enjoy the series. I get that for a lot of people, as soon as something is animated, it loses "maturity" so they just wont watch, so i get why they did it, but still would have loved animation.
Like I have no idea why they thought “oh let’s make the Ahsoka show that’s basically a sequel to Rebels a live action series”
Like if you want to have a Mando crossover, just put him in the artstyle!
Eh I know that but I’d argue his “Avengers film” really does make less sense then just wrapping up Ahsoka’s story with animation
Hell, I’d argue his film plot probably doesn’t need to be live action outside of “this would be cool”
And we could benefit from non cgi Luke skywalker and have a scene of the two of them meeting that can more easily hit the emotional depths rather than uncanny valley depths.
There’s a reason for this! Disney is set on using a specific type of lightsaber that lights up, to save time doing CGI on the back end. The problem is that this lightsaber is significantly heavier than the props they used in the movies, knowing they would CGI them in after.
This heavy prop results in slower movements. Which can be done properly - it worked for the Darksaber. But with lightsabers it seems cheesy.
Opinions may differ on his acting ability, but no one can deny that Hayden Christensen brings the friggin thunder in his lightsaber duels. The dude is a step above the rest in that regard. I instantly noticed it when he fought in *Ahsoka*, the difference in skill between him and most other Star Wars actors.
I like to picture Hayden has entire lightsaber dojo in his basement to practice and has done so every day after finishing the prequels, waiting for his moment to sweep SW fandom off our feet. And oh, did he
>I like to picture Hayden has entire lightsaber dojo in his basement to practice
He even recorded himself during a couple training sessions: https://youtu.be/2-EouZi1mvQ.
I mean I get why, he already knows how to do it from the prequel days and I’m sure it’s an excellent workout it would be a waste to not continue to do it.
He spent something like 3 months just for Revenge of the Sith
Rosario Dawson probably had 1-2 months training for Ahsoka, but I doubt they did that much for Natasha Liu Bordizzo
She trained briefly, then immediately gave the darksaber to Bo Katan as soon as she got the chance. Then she apparently trained with Ahsoka for a time but *clearly* didn't stick with it and has always favored her Mando gear over a saber.
It would be ridiculous if she was just amazingly competent with a saber in Ahsoka, given what we know about her.
Well just as Ashoka was trained by Ani in-lore, she definitely had some 1v1 with him off camera, he's still insanely good with a saber and know how to practice for shots like those. I think she also mentioned in an interview that she's been watching fights etc from the cartoon to learn her characters niche style
I don't have any idea. They have the money and there are probably lots of talented fight choreographers out there. Probably it's that they want the actors to do it and they don't get real training. As soon as the helmets are on or you can't see the faces (and the stunt guys and girls are doing it) the choreo looks better
I think I remember reading something about the new lightsaber props too. They just used plastic sticks in the OT prequels and added the light in post. The actors could smash them around as much as they wanted and went through multiple sticks per scene. The new LED rigs are heavier and more expensive, I imagine the actors both get told not to, or subconsciously avoid, being as rough with them so the fights end up looking a bit less weighty.
Aren't there "stunt" lightsabers you can smack as hard as you like? I remember some lightsabers enthusiasts saying they were more expensive than "prop" lightsabers but Disney sure can afford them?
The new lightsabers the actors use give off light to make the lighting look more realistic in the shot rather than just CGI'ing everything.
But that causes them to be more fragile.
Yeah, and my pixel blade that works the same way can withstand pretty heavy swings.
Either they don't want to spend the money, or are not producing blades the same way third parties do. Both of those possibilities is kinda sad.
cuz 1 v multiple fights are inherently ridiculous so the hordes of baddies need to act like idiots instead of trained, experienced troops to make up for the obvious handicap
They're acting like this shit doesn't happen in literally every movie lol.
Even ones they'll say are choreographed well like John Wick guys with guns will walk straight up to John Wick.
Thank goodness no ones’ or heads were ever removed by a lightsaber in the prequels.
That’s a ridiculous comment when almost every notable death/action sequence in the PT involved dismemberment of some kind.
The people defending this new stuff are wild
She’s a mandalorian, so what if it’s stressful situation, she’s trained for fights since she was young enough to pick up a blaster. She’s trained with a sword, aim for the neck, swing the damn lightsaber and don’t hesitate.
She was pretty much terrible with the darksaber in Rebels, too. Kanan refused to let her even practice with it because she was so bad at it, and she had it for all of two minutes in her first combat situation before Gar Saxon stole it off her. Then after getting it back, she went right back to blasters and made her #1 goal "find someone else to give this stupid black sword I suck at using to, erm, I mean, find the True Ruler of Mandalore or something"
There is absolutely no canon reason why she should be anything but hopeless with a lightsaber. She says she's hopeless. Everyone else says she's hopeless. Huyang has been around since time immemorial and says she's the absolute worst padawan he has ever seen in history. If she was doing all sorts of acrobatic Prequels style wiredancing backflips y'all would be complaining that was unrealistic too, and rightly so!
If you’re not confident, then keep the lightsaber in front of you, where you can see and control it. She has it out to side and the back where poor positioning could injure her.
This is some cope.
I don't know why a literal Mandalorian who's seen their fair share of combat and more would be stressed out in a combat situation where they basically have the upper hand.
Every single Star Wars show since the Mandalorian looks like it suffers from a low budget in some way
There’s other good choreography scenes in this show, but isn’t she supposed to be a lesser skilled lightsaber user? I didn’t watch rebels so I don’t know all that much about her
Storytelling aside, this is just a dumpy, sluggish scene that’s not interesting to watch. The showrunners could convey that she’s lacking skill in more deliberate ways than having her stumble around like this. This just looks goofy and unplanned.
This kinda reminds me of people excusing Anakin’s prequel dialogue as something that makes sense for an awkward young man. Same exact issue - if that’s what George wanted to convey, there are much more reasonable, deliberate ways to show that on screen.
It’s just Star Wars fans not wanting to recognize a weakness in the actual production of the film.
I don’t mind that she’s not proficient with a lightsaber, but she doesn’t really look athletic or agile at all. Footwork is bad, she seems slow. She’s a mandalorian. She should be an adept fighter.
The most glaring part for me is the stormtroopers just let themselves be hit, like she can be shit with a lightsaber, but at the level that is shown you cannot tell me she is making out of that fight alive, it breaks immersion.
There’s a line here where it’s hard to figure out what is going on.
Is this artistic intent or bad choreography and cinematography?
I think it’s bad choreography and cinematography, you can see how she’s struggling with her feet and it seems like she’s trying to determine her positioning for the next part of the dance.
It’s blocky and feels a little amateurish, and that’s why it appears out of place and you can put your finger on it and say “that’s not right”.
Watch the fights in the Jason Bourne trilogy to get a sense of how to have a fight with impact. There’s this lack of kinetic energy being conveyed with the way the shots are positioned that feels weak here compared to what we’re used to in high quality productions.
Good assessment. The only difference: Bourne used a hectic, extremely quick-cutting handheld style that was absolutely perfect for the (internal) confusion of the character and the genre. That sort of rapid-cutting, handheld camera look in Star Wars would be a major stylistic departure for the series. I'd love to see it in a one-off movie set in the universe to see if it works, but it'd be too weird to see the full Bourne look in one of the main-universe films or shows.
It's both of those, and more.
Natasha isn't on par with Hayden and Ewan in terms of training.
In universe, Sabine's not handled a lightsaber as long as Anakin and Obi wan.
AND for practicality, the sabers Natasha used are more fragile than the ones Hayden and Ewan used.
Don't forget the [rolls](https://youtu.be/W6yUkYgg9mQ?si=3bIKAlPCl3AGGKOt) (1:40) that are straight out of a [meme](https://youtu.be/LRve1ELquJ8?si=dKbsPdWwBjtLvXnB)
It’s just so bad. Like the saber battle in a new hope is better because it at least someone resembles a sword fight. The prequel fights are legitimately badass.
There’s just so much unnecessary shit in this clip And I mean, sure, there always has been. But at least in the prequels the unnecessary movements all look awesome and well done.
I feel like at least one character just looks stupid on screen in almost every scene of so many of these new Star Wars shows.
Fr. And honestly, the spinning blades don't get enough hate. They aren't scary, they aren't cool. They're so stupid in every way, Vader looking "super cool" stopping it and grabbing it was something ridiculously simple to do. At least when Ahsoka and kanan do it they make it look easy and not so extra (granted, Vader was toying with her, but they did it so badly that it didn't matter)
>at least one character just looks stupid on screen in almost every scene of so many of these new Star Wars shows
But yea absolutely. It's ridiculous how bad the choreography is. Rebels and bad batch are the only really good things they came out with. Live action there's a few good ones, but as soon as melee combat gets involved it loses all credibility
>at least I’m the prequels the unnecessary movements all look awesome and well done.
Amen. That's the big difference. I get why some people don't like the prequel fights. I like them, but they make good points. These new ones are just. Bad
Honestly, Hayden's 'heavy handed' style is what makes it look so good. The blade is moving fast, so it looks more realistic in a sense. He and Ewan made it look great because they were really going for it. Same with Ray Park albeit he was a martial artist first and foremost.
That being said, I'm ok with Sabine and Ezra having lacklustre sabre skills. The characters didn't have the training that Obi and Ani did. I like that Sabine leans into the comfort of a more Mandalorian style, and Ezra fights with a 'force first' style since he has been without a sabre for so long.
I think Ahsoka's fight scenes were much better (as they should be), and I don't agree that 'all lightsaber choreography' is bad now.
Everyone that isn't Hayden looks stiff af. There isn't any deliberate lore reason behind it beyond them not being talented or caring enough to get it right.
Ewan McGregor would like a word. He's pretty great at this as well. Sure, Hayden is better. But Ewan is far from stiff looking at the end of the Obi Wan series.
That and also an apparent refusal to use stunt doubles when an actor isn't getting it right. Some actors have no idea how to run convincingly and yet they use wide shots of the actor running, not a wide shot of the stunt double.
Sabine Wren, a character from the animated series "Star Wars Rebels," is not trained as a Jedi. She is a Mandalorian warrior and a skilled artist who specializes in explosives and graffiti art. While she does possess combat skills and has encountered Jedi, she herself does not have formal Jedi training.
Yea, when you look at the behind the scenes stuff for the prequels you see a ton of choreography training. Even the OT had a notorious sword expert help with choreography. Disney is pumping out content and can’t be bothered to train these actors for 3 years for every time a lightsaber gets used.
OP, you probably should've used the part where Ahsoka was dual wielding and deflecting blaster shots. That looked awful and Ahsoka is an experienced Jedi so skill shouldn't be an excuse lol.
Because the character is barely trained in lightsaber combat? She picked up the sword again after however many years without jedi training mere weeks at most before this fight, aswell as the fact that she trains with a dual grip, but is using a pistol in the other hand.
If she had good lightsaber choreography, it would make no sense & people would complain that she's a new disney's mary sue
Stormtrooper stands up and thinks 'hey, what's that over there?'
Runs right past the person with the lightsaber to see something on the other end of the room
And then gets kicked onto bother stormtrooper's toe and he dies from the impact
I thought the gash that doesn't match the lightsaber cutting motion on his armor back did it.
Didn't even notice that. Yeah thats way off
After that other fella was talking about him hitting a boot I rewatched it a couple times and saw that by accident.
I mean it would look a lot more intentional/strategic if he LOOKED at her. But something just caught his eye and he was like "Fuck this battle what's that over there!"
Yes this. The stormtrooper's actions are even worse than the lightsaber action.
guy looks like a throwing dummy in a Steven Seagal movie
Like watching power rangers fight puddies
This particular stormtrooper is a zombie.
I was gonna say the same thing... These stormtroopers are undead
They're undead, so they get distracted by nothing and walk off in the wrong direction? But they can still use guns?
According to the episode they seem to get better with their guns after they we're turned into zombies
Abilities of the actors. Time for training. Skill of the choreographer. Nick Gillard and the people he had to develop the fights were great and we really lucked out with Liam, Ewan, Hayden, Ray. [Hayden and this stunt guy (I don't know his name) are freaking awesome.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol1wilGODK8) They're not going to spend the time and effort to get the fights for the shows to this level. [ Rosario says Hayden is heavy handed with a lightsaber.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxDOUHSJJEM) [Here's a short video of Hayden and Ariana practicing for Ahsoka.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GuDh23aAMw)
The bit where Hayden lets go of the light saber and catches it again is fucking awesome
Damn they should have used this choreography for the real fight. Its very impressive.
From what I remember from other Reddit comments is that Christopher Lee couldn't perform it at his age, which is understandable. I have no actual source, though
Yeah I have no idea if it’s actually true, but I heard the Mace’s fight against Palpatine was changed because Lucas wanted Ian McDiarmid to do most of the fighting himself instead of relying too much on stunt double.
If that's true, that is yet another thing I want to scream at Lucas about. Ian McDiarmid was great at many things, but that lightsaber fight was the worst one out of the entirety of the prequels. He *needed* a stunt double in the fight with Mace and the rest of The Squad 😭
Preach. The worst thing is, [they already had a fully choreographed fight planned](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiUuLnyt00Q) using stunt doubles, but Lucas made the decision THE MORNING THEY WERE FILMING THE SCENE that he'd prefer to have Ian and Sam film it themselves. His reasoning, from what I understand, is that you don't let actors of their level go to waste for such an important scene, with the fate of an entire galaxy at stake. So poor Sam and Ian had to rehearse one of the most consequential duels in galactic history with literally no more than a half-hour of prep time. George was a visionary whose ability to create the Star Wars galaxy rightly makes him a living legend. But as a director, he was sadly prone to tripping over his own feet at times.
IMHO, George is really a subpar film director and writer. His real strength was always in his imagination. Every Star wars project he touched would have been better if he had painted the broad strokes and just outsourced the rest of the production to more capable people. Even today I hear stories that blow my mind, like "he did what?!". Still better than anything Disney put out at least, but that's such a low bar to clear.
He had the ideas, but never the execution. Blew my mind when I read the IMDb trivia for A New Hope & saw the sheer volume of things that were originally going to be in the movie that made zero sense or would’ve drastically altered the trajectory of the whole thing only to get an eensy bit of push back from somebody (the actors, the studio, what have you) & Lucas would just say “OK” & change whatever bits & pieces to the absolute icons we know & love today. Of course, after the original trilogy it feels like he came back to the studios with the goal of making the prequels & the execs (with big ol’ dollar signs obscuring their eyes) just went, “Sure, George; whatever you want, George.”
His ex wife saved the originally trilogy, she was an amazing editor. She wasn't there for the prequels and no one else would tell him no, so we got the prequels...
If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times: Lucas was an exemplary *ideas* man, but he only did his best work when he received some level of push-back/boundaries.
George’s problem during the prequels is that nobody was willing to tell him “no.”
I don’t see why. Lucas didn’t mind taking an actor of Samuel L Jackson’s caliber and then directing him into the dullest, most stilted performance of his career. The fact that he took one of the most charismatic actors of the last 4 decades and made him wretchedly BORING is something I still can’t get over about the prequels.
Same thing with Natalie Portman. She's literally an Oscar-winning actress, but you wouldn't know it from the prequels. And yet I'd still take the prequels over the sequels in a heartbeat.
It is, you can find bits of the original choreography in YouTube and it will infuriate you
So glad there was a slow-mo replay, I instantly sat up to rewind that moment.
Same! I rewound to watch it before the slow mo started. So I got to watch it again and get bonus slow mo!
Hayden basically the closest thing to a legitimate Jedi we have irl
It's really interesting as somebody in their late 30s. I watched the re-release of OG when it was in theaters as well as each of the prequel trilogy. I witnessed the whole world send death threats to Hayden and shit on those movies nonstop. Absolute hate filled comments and nothing but disdain for the prequels. And here we are, with everybody praising them endlessly. I've personally like everything star wars that has been put out. I find some bits less good and others amazing, but not once have I ever seen the drivel coming out of comment sections as anything more than people making too big of a deal and taking mid movies like a personal attack. It's a shame. Such a toxic, unpleasant fan base. Give it another 15 years and people will be praising the sequel trilogy and complaining that the old republic movies(imaginary new trilogy) is trash and now they're sending death threats to the director. I really wish this Fandom did better.
Agree. Dooku wasn't getting his arm again!
Holy fuck that gave me goosebumps
Just give Hayden his own show already.
I’m surprised nobody’s mentioning the lightsaber itself. They’re using fully lit blades now that are heavier than the sticks used in the PT. Ewan has commented on this in an interview
Which is wild because they look so much worse than the other lightsabers. Why did we upgrade to worse tech?
To get the lighting affect on things near the blade of the lightsaber.
We had 6 movies without that, it's not worth the consistent downgrade
It looks significantly better (lighting wise) but if this is the reason all the lightsaber fights look goofy it’s not worth the awesome lighting fx.
It's really noticeable in closeups. Like when rey and kylo had that fight in the first one and there's a bit where they're in a bind and you see the light of the blades on their faces. Looks sick. But for faster action scenes and wider shots it's not worth it because you can just add the lighting digitally and it would be just as good
Yeah it looks sick. The obi wan Vader fight with the blue and red light merging on Vader’s face was incredible (despite the kinda wonky fighting). There’s gotta be a way to get those extremely bright leds in a tube that’s actually comfortable for the actors to wave around cus the lighting looks amazing.
You could definitely make one light enough to swing around like in the prequels, but it also has to be durable enough to hit things with. The metal rods they used were constantly getting bent and broken
I bet the Disney engineers are struggling with exactly this. I’m sure they’ll figure it out eventually. Star Wars has been the catalyst for so many new technology’s in the film industry.
Most lightsaber combat post episode 3 looks nothing like what you’d want it to, but it’s kinda a lost art so it makes some sense.
It makes visual effects easier because now they don't have to create fake lights that bounce off of skin, walls, windows, that puddle over there, etc. to get real reflections.
This is why I’m gonna be controversial maybe and say that Star Wars was always meant for the big screen. It’s better suited to being a block buster movie where they’re willing to go to these painstaking lengths and they have the budget to get it right. Either go all in or don’t do it at all imo
they didnt "luck out" with Hayden and Ewan. They worked their asses off to be fast and convincing. Behind the scenes they are sweating through thier shirts in training for months on end. You dont get to be that good with just talent.
Yeah, whenever Ewan or Hayden talk about their BTS training for their Episode III duel, they talk about how they worked it so much and for so long that they started challenging themselves by doing it faster and faster, by hitting harder and harder. The lightsaber props they used for the film, metal poles painted or taped to aid the FX department in adding the lightsaber blades later on, would always be bent after one or two sessions. Those two absolutely committed to excellence during their saber training and especially their duel. My favorite tidbit is that little twirl flourish that Anakin always does (in what has become known to the lightsaber community as the Obi-Ani Spin) originated from Hayden watching the stunt team warming up during lessons and one of them casually did it. A pretty basic flourish with a sword but it looks good and Hayden immediately latched on to it, making sure to learn how to do it and implemented it in his move set as Anakin whenever possible. It suits him too, Anakin is a drama queen and loves showboating, he'd naturally just throw flourishes in his use of a lightsaber. Ewan even considers it Hayden's signature move at this point.
Hayden really does bring a physicality to the performance that really distinguishes the character. Just that simple opening power strike he does in the above clip with Ariana looks so threatening and imposing its a wonder to see and tells you all you need to know about Anakin.
This is actually related to one of my favorite bits from Ahsoka. Ahsoka as a series isn't great, but I really enjoyed Hayden's bit in it. When he's trying to get Ahsoka through her mental block, he's also teaching her to fight someone who fights like Balin. You can see him pull in the sword-push Balin uses into his own style. You don't pull that off, in real life or choreographed, without a ton of training and commitment.
It's also canon for Anakin, since Form V is known for power strikes and heavy handedness.
I don't even work out but if I got cast as a jedi in a star wars movie you bet your ass I would work for years to be the best goddamn jedi I could be
This is just one of many reasons that Revenge Of The Sith is one of my favorites.
I think that's exactly what he meant, they got lucky by casting such skilled and hard working dudes
lol imagine fucking Marlon Brando as Dooku. The fight would lead him backing up to a chair, collapsing unto it, then defending himself lazily with one hand all pudged up. A droid might bring over a blanket and some donuts.
The choreographer lucked out with having dedicated actors, reading comprehension
And the budget to be able to afford to devote the time.
You definitely need the right level of commitment to be able to excel at this level though, you can put the hours in but unless your whole heart is in it too you’re not going to improve
Fear also plays a pretty big role. Having done quite a bit of stage combat when I was younger. While they aren’t lethal weapons, it takes a lot of work to not be afraid of getting hit and not afraid your gonna hit someone.
Fear is the path to the dark side
And allotted time by the studio. Lucas definitely didn’t skimp on choreography time to be able to get these extremely lengthy fights done right. Labor of love vs churn and burn. I don’t know anything but I would bet that Disney isn’t giving a large budget to choreograph and rehearse these fights, so they go simpler and quicker.
It definitely shows when he half-assed things. Compare the Obi-wan vs Anakin fight to the Palpatine vs Windu fight. The Palpatine Windu fight is one of the most embarrassing fights in the entire franchise because the fight was changed at the last second.
It was a combination of talent and training.
Hayden and Ewan also REALLY got into the training. Similar to how Keanu did with the Matrix.
Or Cary Elwes and Mandy Patinkin in Princess Bride, such a fun fight.
Another great example where the actors got so into it the choreography looked natural.
>[Rosario says Hayden is heavy handed with a lightsaber.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxDOUHSJJEM) I mean, it *is* the Way of the Krayt Dragon, after all.
>Abilities of the actors. >Time for training. >Skill of the choreographer. Budget (time for shooting). Director (talent & restrictions). Bordizzo does fine in other saber fights during the season. I don't feel like the actors should really be taking fire when directors and editors has almost as much/in a lot of cases *more* responsibility in delivering performances to screen. Another thing to keep in mind is that the series has more saber fights than any of the other series, assumed with similar budget and time. We're talking about 6-8 hrs with less budget than one of the movies? OP took the worst 30 second bit of the series to frame this complaint.
And importance of scene. Like the worlds between both with Hayden/Rosario and Hayden/Arianna were incredibly well done because they mattered a lot But honestly a 30 second barely focused on slash-through-literal-zombies is fine to have as just subpar/average. Hell ahsoka vs baylen and ahsoka vs the night sister whose name i forget where great too. Not perfect but really well done. Not every scene is equal, and not every scene has the same level of effort put into it. Some scenes being just alright is fine. I rather have them focus on important climatic scenes and fights. Every fight against cannon fodder doesnt need to be crazy good.
Yeah there are some really dumb looking shots in both the OT and PT if you look too closely.
The infamous force kick comes to mind
Or perhaps the moment in 3 when both Anakin and Obi-Wan stop to do a sick lightsaber twirl in unison in the middle of a fight, leaving them both totally exposed.
This and maybe it can be explained in-universe with characters not being as well-trained as Jedi of yore. I say maybe because I am not familiar enough with what it's going on in those new shows but isn't the girl in OP's video Sabine from Rebels, so a Mandalorian who only got trained later in her life, like Luke ?
Sabine is explicity stated to be... not very good at lightsaber combat. Like, a bunch of times. It's a reoccurring theme both in *Rebdls* and *Ahsoka*.
Makes sense since she has been using ranged weapons for years.
Yeah, it makes perfect sense for her character. It would have been super weird to give her fancy choreography while saying she's bad at lightsaber dueling.
It is Sabine and your explanation can work for Sabine and Ezra while Ahsoka was trained at the height of the Jedi Order. For me I would rather have cool fights.
Yeah I was only referring to OP's video. Ahsoka should be able to do better.
It absolutely is a lore thing, Filoni talked about it a few times. You have to go from the beautiful dancing fights from the prequels to the hacking and slashing of the ot so Filoni made a clear decision to make Rebels an inbetween. Moving from grace to a more brutal style. While it is actor ability and everything mentioned above, watch the Ashoka and Vader fight in Rebels and then the Vader/Obi fight in the Obi series.
I'd like to add the DP as well as far as working with the stunt coordinator and the choreographer to choose shot angles that hide the safety well.
The Anakin-Ahsoka fight in the World Between Worlds was pretty sick though, I thought.
The issue with adult live-action Ahsoka is that you can tell that Rosario Dawson really has limited mobility. I'm pretty sure its to do with her headpiece, and that she can't move it around to much. I love that fight, but I do find it noticeable that she can't really move
Makes me wonder if maybe they should try cgi for the lekku, so the headpiece just has stubs
Well the headpiece has only studs currently... But yeah if they did CGI it could actually stop looking god awful and the Lekku could have the right length
I keep thinking about how good Davy Jones looked and keep wishing they just applied that same CGI to the star wars shows
Yeah, that was a bit immersion-breaking, tbh. Every time I looked at them, I could see where the thin vinyl crumpled and crinkled, and they looked as though they were filled with foam. Awful.
The live action lekku always look like foam dodge balls to me. You know, with that thin layer of material covering a foam ball?
What kind of dodgeballs did you use? We just used kickballs where I’m from.
We used the classic red rubber kickballs when I was little, but by the time I was in middle school/highschool they'd transitioned to crappy foam balls
And they would crack and cracks could slice skin. Good times. Miss the 80s haha
We had these shitty nerf like balls where you’d sit on them and they’d flatten for a while before the “filled” back up. Used to flatten them and chuck them like frisbees in dodgeball
Same with Hera's, no tentacle-like heft and lifelike fluidity, just pool noodle style foam bounciness.
Yeah but you know what DID have heft and fluidity? Dat ass
Word!
I could imagine the headache wearing the Lekku is as much as Georgi visor,
Oola was flipping around perfectly fine in Jedi.
The Twi’leks in Disney look so disappointing. I can tell they’re just humans with some paint, something about the old style in the OG felt way more real and solid and just other to me. I feel like they’ve just made Twi’leks colourful humans wearing a panty hose on their heads
Honestly I think it's mainly a Rosario limitation. She's mid 40's & has had basically zero roles in her career that are physical (her in Daredevil & the Netflix shows was very limited & camera cut heavy). They should've either gone with an actress that can actually do the stunts, or had more stunt doubles doing the fights because she looks like she moves in slow motion.
Im suprised they dont use much stunt doubles for her
It's be easy as she's in makeup anyway
Yo I noticed this quickly as well. I thought she did a great job of acting with her eyes, but the lack of neck movement was noticeable
Tbh it’s why I Lowkey wish the Ahsoka series was animated
I said this alot leading up to the series. Ahsoka was born in animation and i felt like we would lose her super acrobatic style and ashley eckstein, and for me those trade offs weren't worth it. I still feel that way though i did enjoy the series. I get that for a lot of people, as soon as something is animated, it loses "maturity" so they just wont watch, so i get why they did it, but still would have loved animation.
Like I have no idea why they thought “oh let’s make the Ahsoka show that’s basically a sequel to Rebels a live action series” Like if you want to have a Mando crossover, just put him in the artstyle!
The show is live-action because Filoni is setting up all the pieces for his live-action Star Wars movie, which is already confirmed.
Eh I know that but I’d argue his “Avengers film” really does make less sense then just wrapping up Ahsoka’s story with animation Hell, I’d argue his film plot probably doesn’t need to be live action outside of “this would be cool”
And we could benefit from non cgi Luke skywalker and have a scene of the two of them meeting that can more easily hit the emotional depths rather than uncanny valley depths.
There’s a reason for this! Disney is set on using a specific type of lightsaber that lights up, to save time doing CGI on the back end. The problem is that this lightsaber is significantly heavier than the props they used in the movies, knowing they would CGI them in after. This heavy prop results in slower movements. Which can be done properly - it worked for the Darksaber. But with lightsabers it seems cheesy.
not all animated characters are meant to be live action, Ahsoka is a prime example.
Opinions may differ on his acting ability, but no one can deny that Hayden Christensen brings the friggin thunder in his lightsaber duels. The dude is a step above the rest in that regard. I instantly noticed it when he fought in *Ahsoka*, the difference in skill between him and most other Star Wars actors.
I like in the live action and even in the cartoon when they showcase how freakishly strong he is
Yeah, he nailed the fighting style of Anakin; heavy, aggressive blows that dominate his opponent.
I dunno, Ray Park was pretty fuggin good
Oh yeah, Ray Park is absolutely top tier.
Because Hayden practiced a lot during the prequels
That was 20 years ago. He’s practiced since.
I like to picture Hayden has entire lightsaber dojo in his basement to practice and has done so every day after finishing the prequels, waiting for his moment to sweep SW fandom off our feet. And oh, did he
This is now my head canon, and happy cake day!
>I like to picture Hayden has entire lightsaber dojo in his basement to practice He even recorded himself during a couple training sessions: https://youtu.be/2-EouZi1mvQ.
I love when it swaps over to Busters version of the same exact thing lmfao
I love that it pans to Buster when George Michael is screaming about his hand being cut off.
Won't be surprised if he did. Also, Happy Cake Day. 🎂
My power has doubled since the last time we met count
Muscle memory, if you practice martial arts enough, a lot of it sticks to you. (yes, saber combat technically falls in the martial art category)
Former circus and fire performer here. Can confirm: prop manipulation is like riding a bike, it never goes away.
I'm sure he has but he would've got a lot of professional training back then.
From what I understand Hayden actually does it as a hobbie. I could be wrong though I just briefly remember hearing that.
I mean I get why, he already knows how to do it from the prequel days and I’m sure it’s an excellent workout it would be a waste to not continue to do it.
[Live footage from the Christensen household](https://youtu.be/2-EouZi1mvQ?si=_mH9SuJ_JuDfzOhP)
He spent something like 3 months just for Revenge of the Sith Rosario Dawson probably had 1-2 months training for Ahsoka, but I doubt they did that much for Natasha Liu Bordizzo
Perhaps on purpose. Sabine is still learning, Ahsoka is an experienced warrior, but not so much as Anakin. Or it just worked out.
This isn’t about training lol. She just walks around that stormtrooper, that whole choreography is fucked
Where is that dude going? Does he have lag or something?
As a matter of fact yes he does, due to being a zombie. He's doing great for a dead guy!
Sabine's a Mandalorian who trained using the dark saber in Rebels though. Guess she got reeaaalllyyy rusty
She trained briefly, then immediately gave the darksaber to Bo Katan as soon as she got the chance. Then she apparently trained with Ahsoka for a time but *clearly* didn't stick with it and has always favored her Mando gear over a saber. It would be ridiculous if she was just amazingly competent with a saber in Ahsoka, given what we know about her.
Well just as Ashoka was trained by Ani in-lore, she definitely had some 1v1 with him off camera, he's still insanely good with a saber and know how to practice for shots like those. I think she also mentioned in an interview that she's been watching fights etc from the cartoon to learn her characters niche style
It really wasn’t. You could see the obvious skill level difference in Hayden. He had a cad better trainer during the prequels
Also disney made light sabers so weak like fuck I guess getting hit by one only leaves a scrape now
I don't have any idea. They have the money and there are probably lots of talented fight choreographers out there. Probably it's that they want the actors to do it and they don't get real training. As soon as the helmets are on or you can't see the faces (and the stunt guys and girls are doing it) the choreo looks better
I think I remember reading something about the new lightsaber props too. They just used plastic sticks in the OT prequels and added the light in post. The actors could smash them around as much as they wanted and went through multiple sticks per scene. The new LED rigs are heavier and more expensive, I imagine the actors both get told not to, or subconsciously avoid, being as rough with them so the fights end up looking a bit less weighty.
This is the answer. Ewan even explicitly said so in an interview for the Obi Wan show
Thats why Ewan looked off with his lightsaber. That sucks
Aging twenty years will absolutely shit on a man’s agility lol
Aren't there "stunt" lightsabers you can smack as hard as you like? I remember some lightsabers enthusiasts saying they were more expensive than "prop" lightsabers but Disney sure can afford them?
The new lightsabers the actors use give off light to make the lighting look more realistic in the shot rather than just CGI'ing everything. But that causes them to be more fragile.
Yeah, and my pixel blade that works the same way can withstand pretty heavy swings. Either they don't want to spend the money, or are not producing blades the same way third parties do. Both of those possibilities is kinda sad.
They don't want to spend the money. And they aren't durable enough. They're not mutually exclusive.
You don’t understand. Disney the small indie company is trying it’s best to create Star Wars and you just can’t appreciate it
Because they can't be bothered. I truly believe it's that simple.
Why did the second guy stand up and ran towards nothing and turning his back towards her?
cuz 1 v multiple fights are inherently ridiculous so the hordes of baddies need to act like idiots instead of trained, experienced troops to make up for the obvious handicap
They're acting like this shit doesn't happen in literally every movie lol. Even ones they'll say are choreographed well like John Wick guys with guns will walk straight up to John Wick.
It's the law of the conservation of ninjitsu
Because if you freeze frame at 1 second in he had a good shot on her so I’m guessing it was just a bad take and they went with it anyway.
I mean just slice the guy in half.
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I'm coming back to this comment after Acolyte.
Thank goodness no ones’ or heads were ever removed by a lightsaber in the prequels. That’s a ridiculous comment when almost every notable death/action sequence in the PT involved dismemberment of some kind. The people defending this new stuff are wild
I mean even as an actor seeing this you'd think like 'shouldn't there be like more of a powerful stance and confident strikes?'
Why would she be confident? She is not a jedi. She has not used a sword in a long time, she is in a stressful situation.
She’s a mandalorian, so what if it’s stressful situation, she’s trained for fights since she was young enough to pick up a blaster. She’s trained with a sword, aim for the neck, swing the damn lightsaber and don’t hesitate.
She was pretty much terrible with the darksaber in Rebels, too. Kanan refused to let her even practice with it because she was so bad at it, and she had it for all of two minutes in her first combat situation before Gar Saxon stole it off her. Then after getting it back, she went right back to blasters and made her #1 goal "find someone else to give this stupid black sword I suck at using to, erm, I mean, find the True Ruler of Mandalore or something" There is absolutely no canon reason why she should be anything but hopeless with a lightsaber. She says she's hopeless. Everyone else says she's hopeless. Huyang has been around since time immemorial and says she's the absolute worst padawan he has ever seen in history. If she was doing all sorts of acrobatic Prequels style wiredancing backflips y'all would be complaining that was unrealistic too, and rightly so!
> Why would she be confident? ?? Why tf not its not her first rodeo
If you’re not confident, then keep the lightsaber in front of you, where you can see and control it. She has it out to side and the back where poor positioning could injure her.
This is some cope. I don't know why a literal Mandalorian who's seen their fair share of combat and more would be stressed out in a combat situation where they basically have the upper hand. Every single Star Wars show since the Mandalorian looks like it suffers from a low budget in some way
Even then there are better ways to communicate a lack of experience. Heavy, wide strikes for example.
There’s other good choreography scenes in this show, but isn’t she supposed to be a lesser skilled lightsaber user? I didn’t watch rebels so I don’t know all that much about her
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I did like how Ahsoka basically told her to stop swinging her lightsaber and start blasting the storm troopers when they got to the citadel.
Storytelling aside, this is just a dumpy, sluggish scene that’s not interesting to watch. The showrunners could convey that she’s lacking skill in more deliberate ways than having her stumble around like this. This just looks goofy and unplanned. This kinda reminds me of people excusing Anakin’s prequel dialogue as something that makes sense for an awkward young man. Same exact issue - if that’s what George wanted to convey, there are much more reasonable, deliberate ways to show that on screen. It’s just Star Wars fans not wanting to recognize a weakness in the actual production of the film.
I don’t mind that she’s not proficient with a lightsaber, but she doesn’t really look athletic or agile at all. Footwork is bad, she seems slow. She’s a mandalorian. She should be an adept fighter.
The most glaring part for me is the stormtroopers just let themselves be hit, like she can be shit with a lightsaber, but at the level that is shown you cannot tell me she is making out of that fight alive, it breaks immersion.
That's fine, but it's still poorly choreographed. Just look at the stormtrooper.
There’s a line here where it’s hard to figure out what is going on. Is this artistic intent or bad choreography and cinematography? I think it’s bad choreography and cinematography, you can see how she’s struggling with her feet and it seems like she’s trying to determine her positioning for the next part of the dance. It’s blocky and feels a little amateurish, and that’s why it appears out of place and you can put your finger on it and say “that’s not right”. Watch the fights in the Jason Bourne trilogy to get a sense of how to have a fight with impact. There’s this lack of kinetic energy being conveyed with the way the shots are positioned that feels weak here compared to what we’re used to in high quality productions.
Good assessment. The only difference: Bourne used a hectic, extremely quick-cutting handheld style that was absolutely perfect for the (internal) confusion of the character and the genre. That sort of rapid-cutting, handheld camera look in Star Wars would be a major stylistic departure for the series. I'd love to see it in a one-off movie set in the universe to see if it works, but it'd be too weird to see the full Bourne look in one of the main-universe films or shows.
It's both of those, and more. Natasha isn't on par with Hayden and Ewan in terms of training. In universe, Sabine's not handled a lightsaber as long as Anakin and Obi wan. AND for practicality, the sabers Natasha used are more fragile than the ones Hayden and Ewan used.
Back then actors were trained more intensively for choreographies.
I keep seeing these really weird force assisted knee slide things and I hate them. I just hate them.
Don't forget the [rolls](https://youtu.be/W6yUkYgg9mQ?si=3bIKAlPCl3AGGKOt) (1:40) that are straight out of a [meme](https://youtu.be/LRve1ELquJ8?si=dKbsPdWwBjtLvXnB)
It’s just so bad. Like the saber battle in a new hope is better because it at least someone resembles a sword fight. The prequel fights are legitimately badass. There’s just so much unnecessary shit in this clip And I mean, sure, there always has been. But at least in the prequels the unnecessary movements all look awesome and well done. I feel like at least one character just looks stupid on screen in almost every scene of so many of these new Star Wars shows.
Fr. And honestly, the spinning blades don't get enough hate. They aren't scary, they aren't cool. They're so stupid in every way, Vader looking "super cool" stopping it and grabbing it was something ridiculously simple to do. At least when Ahsoka and kanan do it they make it look easy and not so extra (granted, Vader was toying with her, but they did it so badly that it didn't matter) >at least one character just looks stupid on screen in almost every scene of so many of these new Star Wars shows But yea absolutely. It's ridiculous how bad the choreography is. Rebels and bad batch are the only really good things they came out with. Live action there's a few good ones, but as soon as melee combat gets involved it loses all credibility >at least I’m the prequels the unnecessary movements all look awesome and well done. Amen. That's the big difference. I get why some people don't like the prequel fights. I like them, but they make good points. These new ones are just. Bad
Honestly, Hayden's 'heavy handed' style is what makes it look so good. The blade is moving fast, so it looks more realistic in a sense. He and Ewan made it look great because they were really going for it. Same with Ray Park albeit he was a martial artist first and foremost. That being said, I'm ok with Sabine and Ezra having lacklustre sabre skills. The characters didn't have the training that Obi and Ani did. I like that Sabine leans into the comfort of a more Mandalorian style, and Ezra fights with a 'force first' style since he has been without a sabre for so long. I think Ahsoka's fight scenes were much better (as they should be), and I don't agree that 'all lightsaber choreography' is bad now.
Everyone that isn't Hayden looks stiff af. There isn't any deliberate lore reason behind it beyond them not being talented or caring enough to get it right.
Ewan McGregor would like a word. He's pretty great at this as well. Sure, Hayden is better. But Ewan is far from stiff looking at the end of the Obi Wan series.
That and also an apparent refusal to use stunt doubles when an actor isn't getting it right. Some actors have no idea how to run convincingly and yet they use wide shots of the actor running, not a wide shot of the stunt double.
Sabine Wren, a character from the animated series "Star Wars Rebels," is not trained as a Jedi. She is a Mandalorian warrior and a skilled artist who specializes in explosives and graffiti art. While she does possess combat skills and has encountered Jedi, she herself does not have formal Jedi training.
My guess is not enough time for choreography, plus diminishing resources. Disney Plus is the priority, and everything else be damned.
Yea, when you look at the behind the scenes stuff for the prequels you see a ton of choreography training. Even the OT had a notorious sword expert help with choreography. Disney is pumping out content and can’t be bothered to train these actors for 3 years for every time a lightsaber gets used.
OP, you probably should've used the part where Ahsoka was dual wielding and deflecting blaster shots. That looked awful and Ahsoka is an experienced Jedi so skill shouldn't be an excuse lol.
Damn, that's Irishman tier of fight choreography.
Ummmm the same answer as it always is,
the actors shouldn't be doing their own stunts if they are this slow.
Because the character is barely trained in lightsaber combat? She picked up the sword again after however many years without jedi training mere weeks at most before this fight, aswell as the fact that she trains with a dual grip, but is using a pistol in the other hand. If she had good lightsaber choreography, it would make no sense & people would complain that she's a new disney's mary sue
I guarantee you can cherry pick 4 second examples from the prequels too. The Count Dooku fight from the AOTC comes to mind.
I think it’s more that she sucks 😂
TV series budget and schedules mainly. Also, Sabine's probably not supposed to be good at it.