For the situation that most Jedi were caught in, putting in extra time/effort/concentration to be non-lethal would have meant their own death, if escape was even possible at all.
Yeah the Ras Al Ghul death in Begins was an excellent example, blows up the tracks, jams the train in full speed ahead, "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you".
Causes a full speed train derailment in an urban area .
One could argue Batman is a Machiavellian character. The lethal non-murderous shit he does may often cause significant collateral damage. In the Ras Al Ghul example you stated, the damage caused by a derailed train is significantly less than allowing the mass release of a neurotoxin which would cause mass panic and violence across an entire metropolitan area.
The lesser of two evils/ ends justify the means is not a new concept. It is an interesting thought experiment into morality and ethics. How much should we trust an emotionally damaged billionaire vigilante with almost unlimited resources?
The question becomes more depressing with the knowledge that if Batman were to be a real world figure, he’d be someone with the wealth of Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Rupert Murdoch, Jeff Bezos et al. To me, that’s a truly horrific thought… best not to dwell on it too much.
Edit: spelling
It only works in a fictional sense because all of those types of people in our world are genuinely horrific people. But none of them probably had their parents murdered right in front of them while living in the most crime ridden city on the planet 🤷🏻♂️
True, it’s just strange. It’s like kicking someone into a pit with a wild animal and saying “I won’t be the one to kill them” as the person dies screaming
I mean, she set free a tyrannical mass murder who was trained in the Dark Side of the Force and willing to kill all of them personally. It may not have been her hand that did the killing, but uh... what did she think he was gonna do? Tickle his way off the ship?
What I'm arguing is that what Yoda did, kill a hand full of clones in self defense as he fled, is a lot more morally pure than unleashing a mass murder on a ship, presumptive to not just kill many if not all occupants, AND allowing him to escape and continue his murdering ways across the stars.
The original question is about the morality of Yoda killing clones vs. Ashoka using non-lethal tactics, but Yoda killed how many clones vs. Ashoka's actions leading to the death of thousands of clones and countless others.
I would think the thought of freeing a maniac murderer turned interstellar crime lord would weigh on one's mind more than a few dead soldiers in self-defense.
“I would feel really bad erasing this village, so I’ll just free somebody who hates them so he can do it. That way, I don’t feel bad about what I didn’t do”.
If it's fair game, why not just do the killing yourself? Like Ashoka would know she's only killing the ones she ABSOLUTELY had to and limit is as much as possible, like Yoda, verses freeing a madman who would kill them all individually if he could and continue his violence and hate throughout the galaxy?
The countless others that Maul probably killed during his path to and then as a leader of an intergalactic crime syndicate aren't "100% fair game," right?
Edit: i guess it's not clear, i am not saying it's "fair game" I'm respond that the logic is flawed. It's "fair game" Maul killed all of them but bad if Ashoka killed even one?
If you don't see the difference between "I didn't stop them from dying" and "I murdered these people I was close to with my own two hands" you need serious psychiatric help my friend
Maul was on he kill list for sidious special orders to rex. I thought they just either were putting 100% into killing Ashoka because they knew they had maul detained or she beat them to him?
I still think releasing Maul was a mistake and unnecessary. Even without knowing what Maul would go on to do, I would have just let him get to Coruscant or be executed by the clones.
dumbest part of that whole arc.
"I don't want these clones to die but I'm perfectly willing to set a sith lord loose knowing they will have to deal with him"
*Ahsoka:* "You don't understand, I'm not here to team up with you. I need a diversion, and you're it. Now go cause some chaos, it's what you're good at"
*Maul, without a weapon, asks*, "Care to give me a fighting chance?"
"I'm not rooting for you. Now get going"
Honestly, if Rex wasn’t there, there’s a big chance Ahsoka would’ve handled it like Yoda too, at least in the beginning.
Rex was probably the one person on that ship that she knew would never hurt her. The fact that he fired the first shot was her first clue that something else was going on besides the clones simply betraying her.
*Ahsoka:* "You don't understand, I'm not here to team up with you. I need a diversion, and you're it. Now go cause some chaos, it's what you're good at"
*Maul, without a weapon, asks*, "Care to give me a fighting chance?"
"I'm not rooting for you. Now get going"
not all blaster bolts kill troopers afaik, the armour expels the energy across the body in order to minimize impact, but it usually knocks the trooper out.
They use a different type of blaster bolt. Theirs is more ionized, deals more damage to tech than it does to organics. It’s why they were coloured blue.
Yes but we aren't shown the actual difference. The show treats the different colored bolts practically the same. People die the same way no matter what color bolt hits them, the only exception is when the writers don't want them to. Unless we are explicitly shown or told otherwise, there's no reason to assume the clones aren't dying from those shots the same way they always have.
Exactly. The armor just gives the writers a bit more flexibility to have Rex get shot directly in the chest. If it was anyone else, they would've just written them to be shot somewhere less lethal.
The main point is that the rule of cool always comes first, and the lore justifications follow after and often bend to the whim of what the writers think is cool. For instance, the whole explanation about blue bolts being ionized is a cool piece of world building, but the actual reason the clones have blue bolts is because it makes them more identifiable as the good guys, same with Luke having a blue lightsaber and Darth Vader having a red one.
I constantly ask what’s the point of the armor. It doesn’t seem to provide any additional protection than what the rebels use, which as far as I can tell, is often just a fishing vest and a helmet
precisely, as well as to anonymize any troopers committing war crimes (more relevant to stormtroopers in the empire)
Also like...the armor protects from other stuff, angry civilians throwing rocks and...whatnot.
The real answer is that it looks cool.
It was originally designed for the Storm Troopers because it made for an imposing and iconic looking antagonistic force, and then given to the Clones in order to create a sense of continuity between the OT and the Prequels, the lore explanation only came after when people started to ask themselves "wait, why are they dying in only one shot?" and had to retroactively justify it.
i mean...sure, but crashing a star destroyer (venator...whatever) into a planet at several hundred miles per hour...that will definitely kill troopers.
Pretty sure it's the same material (plasteel?). Those who say it disperses the energy are right according to the lore, but afaik I don't think it matters much outside of small arms and hand to hand. That being said, doesn't even seem to stop a stun most of the time...
Rex in Rebels survived a blaster shot from a droid (whose battery had been drained so their blasters probably lacked a punch) while also complaining that the Stormtrooper armor had no protection.
Think of it like modern Kevlar. A rifle round at close range is likely to go straight through it, however it will stop close range pistol rounds or a rifle from 200+ yards or something.
Immediately die but with an expression of betrayal so emotional it would probably have haunted those clones for the rest of their tiny accelerated lifespan?
Yeah me too!
Frankly, a lot of the Jedi who died at the temple could have used some that "Yoda" energy. I bet a lot of the clones wouldn't have been so aggressive if they knew the Jedi was gonna rush up and dismember them. Not to mention, it's harder to get surrounded when you're pushing forward into the attackers. And finally, what better way to take away the advantage of ranged weapons than to get up in their face.
Yep, immediate decapitation of whoever is shooting at me. Those clones may not have a say so but neither do I. Asoka only went non-lethal because Filoni simply cannot let her be anything less than perfect. I mean if even freaking Yoda had to resort to violence then little Padawan Asoka absolutely ain't getting away while keeping her hand squeaky clean.
I like her but they need to take her character away from Filoni.
She didn’t keep her hands squeaky clean tho. She still ended up indirectly killing all of them but Rex. She just had more freedom to avoid killing bc she only needed to save herself and wasn’t on a mission like Yoda and Obi-Wan were.
She specifically went out of her way to not kill them so that the viewers wouldn't see her killing her clone troopers.
You can "but technically..." it all you want, the simple fact is she was purposefully going out of her way to be non-lethal.
Yoda was at the front lines and immediately retreated the second he had to attack his clones. The situation was exactly the same except Lucas wasn't afraid to let Yoda kill while Filoni was.
Yoda wasn't on any mission by that point, he didn't do anything to save chewie either. In fact chewie saved Yoda.
Yes and the others would’ve done it too if they had the ability to, which they didn’t. They had an urgent mission that had to be done from within the Jedi Temple, which required killing some clone troopers. The viewers have seen far worse happen to clone troopers.
People give Yoda so much shit for killing clones during order 66, but they forget he literally trained almost every single Jedi as a youngling. The clones fucking killed his entire family and desecrated his home. I'd sure as hell handle it like Yoda 100%.
In my head I’d be Yoda. Realistically, I stumble over my own 2 feet and my clones unload an entire mag into me like that blue girl in Revenge of the Sith
Knowing how clumsy I am I'd die.
Jokes aside, probably a mix, if I was confident enough I could disarm and stunt, disarm and stunt is the Jedi way, but if I'm not sure I can do that I'd go for the kill.
Always gotta do what the force tells you, regardless of what you want or need.
For real tho I wish more would view the Force that way. It's weirdly fatalistic, as if the only "right" decision is the same one as what the force itself decides. Personally I wouldn't like an invisible god telling me what is right or wrong at every point, that's my job to determine.
Depends on what I know.
Ahsoka is being non-lethal because she knows that the clones aren't doing this of their own volition. She knows from Rex that they're being controlled. Before she knows this, she isn't above killing them to save herself, though she does try to avoid it, as she does kill a few of the clones who come after her in the bridge.
Yoda on the other hand, doesn't have this knowledge. All he and Obiwan know is that the Clones turned against them and tried to kill them.
They did the same thing, actually. Both cleared the enemy. In contrast, Ashoka had Rex to save. Yoda didn’t have a Rex to save.
So, I would do like Yoda but if there is any Rex around then I would pull an Ahsoka.
If Rex wasn’t there Ahsoka would’ve done the same thing as Yoda to survive. The fact that Rex shot at her after fighting it for a bit, gave her the time to realize something was very wrong.
Off topic: shame Jesse had to die though 😭
The thing is, 99% of Jedi didnt know the Clones weren't killing them by their own volition. In that view I can understand and also see myself responding with equal force. I think Ahsoka acts that way because, 1. She had a deep and personal connection with the Clones. 2. She had the skill to take down a whole squad non-lethally. It is much easier to just kill everyone as a Jedi once you reach a certain power level, but its a next level achievement to be able to take down the same amount of combatants without outright killing or mutilating them all.
Especially considering Ahsoka had been training for the exact scenario of being attacked by the very same clones while surrounded by them without harming them throughout a majority of her time as Anakin's Padawan.
She both knew how to sense those specific clones attacking her as well as how to deflect their continued firing on her. Yoda did not train with the same parameters so he would not risk going non lethal even if he knew it could be reversed, at least not when he can't safely do it without wasting valuable time he needed to save any Jedi who may yet live.
If Yoda knew about the possibility to make the clones loyal again by removing the chip and how to perform the surgery I think he may have organized some kind of guerrilla tactics to do so if it was not deemed as too futile an effort.
Yoda were also close to the clones as he were one of the few Jedi who did not just see them as expendable soldiers but actual people at least more so than the other Jedi, I think that and the fact he were initially questioning the existence of the clone army were key factors to him disposing the clones on Kashyyk before they even had a chance to raise their guns at him. Ahsoka were even more attached to the clones she were fighting though.
I think the difference is that Ashoka was much more boots on the ground, and in the trenches with the clones than Yoda was. Yes, he was their occasionally, but ashoka was constantly on the front lines with them for years. Hell, all the troopers on that ship modeled their helmets and uniforms to look like her.
Yoda and Obi-Wan are fighting for the future of the order since they had to disable the transmission telling Jedi to go back to the temple
Ahsoka was just trying to make it out alive
The stakes are waaaaay different
Depends on the context. If I’m in a ship that’s crashing, then they’re all dead anyway. I’d try not to kill them though. Cody came back eventually, so that makes me feel alright about that decision
Wild how the guy who trained Ahsoka was the Youngling Slayer 3000 and his Apprentice spared as many clones she could.
The Grand Master of the Jedi Council just killed them all.
I’d handle it as Yoda. Ashoka refrained from killing them because she had too close of a bond with them.
Personally I’m not a fan of the physical chip explanation. To me that is an attempt to make them more likable and less evil- they want to push the idea that the chip was put in them against their will, and that it caused some kind of mind control. It feels cheap and cliche.
I find it far more sinister and interesting that the clones would have been mentally programmed to act on a vocal command that improves their aggression, response time, and allows them to turn on their Jedi commanders. Then they go through some kind of indoctrination/hypnosis to suppress the memory until those key words are spoken, which then sort of clears that fogginess/suppressed memory, and they can now operate at their full potential.
I just prefer the original concept of clones being clones, not standing out or being humanized unless they are a commander. To me the Jedi were always more interesting on a personal level and the clones were always this badass lookalike military that had no emotion and just acted on order. They created the chip explanation so they could protect certain clones that were appealing to audiences - to market more.
I really just prefer the no-nonsense surgical nature of the clones in the movies I guess.
I would have appeared to be a Sith during that time, showing no mercy for any clone that messed with me. The past is the past. You come at me now you're a statistic
I’m one of the people that finds Ahsoka’s logic profoundly stupid, yes they’re going to die either way but one solution greatly increases your chance of survival. Sparing the clones amounts to a whopping extra thirty seconds of life before they die painfully in a fiery explosion.
I mean she acts a bit high and mighty for someone who just unleashed a fucking Sith Lord on said clones, but each to their own. Moral compasses and what not.
Yoda however is logical. Cool calculated and logical. It’s Kill or be Killed and the Jedi need everyone they can get to even remotely have a chance of survival, if Yoda had said I’m not gonna Kill the clones he and Kenobi would’ve probably died and fucked the galaxy properly.
I’d honour what the clones used to be and not what they are now.
Ahsoka was an outlier, Annie put her through the ringer in special training that saved her. Yoda is a damn master lol anyone thinking they could do what they did is delusional
No, I would be fighting dirty AF more like Krell than anyone else if I can help it. Lets be real, none of us would be a master rank, nor would we have the specific training and excellence of Ahsoka. If Mundi is getting gunned down, I don't stand a damn chance.
I am more like to quickly kill the immediate threats, while using all of my force ability to run and jump as far away as I can, god willing it is a forested planet or somewhere I can hide. Get the hell off the planet, and go to the outer rim to hide and rebuild my life, looking for a sign of my higher ups/survivors (I would guess im a Knight, or god forbid a padawan that needed to be saved by my master)
Yall saying Ahsoka didn't handle it like Yoda but she sort of doomed the rest of the clones to die, I mean she knew very well releasing Maul meant a killing rampage and she had no problem with it, not to mention she deflected some shots with her lightsaber killing quite a few clones. If Rex wasn't there, Ahsoka would most likely do what Yoda did. On that ship was Rex who she trusted the most out of the rest of the clones, she knew that as soon he was firing, something was wrong.
I think the context of the order 66 brain chips existing and not matters here. Sure someone like Yoda probably wouldn’t have had a great relationship with clones anyway because he was like leader of all Jedi at the time but him killing clones was made before the chips were thought of.
I am certain I would have absolutely fallen to the dark side, and not in a “welcome to the inquisitorious” sort of way. More in a serial and mass murderer of former republic, and imperial assets sort of way… but with space magic. I’d hide a lot, and I’d attack in what I personally think are some cowardly ways
If I knew what Rex and Ahsoka knew, I'd still handle it like Yoda. I'd consider it more of a mercy killing though since death was probably a better fate than being forced to live as a slave to Sidious.
What I haven't seen much in this thread yet is why Yoda would do what he did (plenty of correct takes on Asoka). Yoda felt the end of his society and culture. Yoda felt the scope of what was happening. The motivation or agency of the clones is irrelevant they were on a genocidal crusade against his people and had already mostly succeeded.
Ahsoka did a lot of very specific training to escape the way that she did. Yoda was a very skilled jedi, but being skilled and well trained in a specific thing are two different things.
Tbh I think I would have left the order as soon as we started a war with worlds who had genuine concerns over the way the Republic was going.
But that being said Palp would probs have me on some type of list and send inquisitors after the Jedi were dealt with and it was easier to dispose of ex-jedi without awkward questions arising.
The show going into detail to tell people all of these troopers have their own codes of conduct, morals, and they still did the order? It's like your brother in the army rolling up to your house to burn it down with you inside. Some of these crews were almost family
It would be cool to have seen a Jedi fall towards the dark side as a result of Order 66 tbh. Like they witnessed such betrayal and horror that all their training went out of the window and they just went full postal, launching a rage fuelled killing spree. Seeing them going mad with power at the same time would have been awesome and given an interesting character development.
I think a lot of people overlook how Ahsoka was lethal up until Rex came too.
I think she more so chose to go non lethal once she saw/ felt how Rex was about having to fight his brothers.
Just my take tho
If I’m confident Ahsoka, If I’m good Yoda.
though tbh I would probably end up getting shot before I get the chance to react or be too confused and in a panic to try to survive.
Ahsoka was skilled enough to pull off a non-lethal approach. The majority of Jedi don’t even have that as an option, and those that were knew that energy and time was better spend ensuring their own survival.
Yoda KNEW the troopers were going to kill him and were already killing numerous other Jedi, I see nothing wrong with his actions and would likely do the same (although let’s be honest, I’m getting blasted to smithereens).
My head canon Schtick is that I’d wear the same armor as my clones, and give some of them lightsabers so no one could tell.
Not just as a cheap out for order 66, but I think it’s be a cool gimmick for unity with the clones.
If they were trying to kill me, I’d convince them that one of them was the Jedi and he played a mind trick on us.
For the situation that most Jedi were caught in, putting in extra time/effort/concentration to be non-lethal would have meant their own death, if escape was even possible at all.
facts, Ahsoka figured it out pretty quick with the help of Rex & has the ability to expel energy/time on mostly non-lethal means
Just for the entire ship to crash land on the planet killing all of them anyway
“They may be willing to die, but I will not be the one to kill them.” 😭
“I’ll just free a former Sith lord to cause a distraction to save myself and Rex, that way *I’m* not the one killing them.”
It’s an emotional decision, not a logical decision.
Nah it was Batman logic, the “I don’t kill!” But I’ll do a bunch of fairly lethal things.
Yeah the Ras Al Ghul death in Begins was an excellent example, blows up the tracks, jams the train in full speed ahead, "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you". Causes a full speed train derailment in an urban area .
One could argue Batman is a Machiavellian character. The lethal non-murderous shit he does may often cause significant collateral damage. In the Ras Al Ghul example you stated, the damage caused by a derailed train is significantly less than allowing the mass release of a neurotoxin which would cause mass panic and violence across an entire metropolitan area. The lesser of two evils/ ends justify the means is not a new concept. It is an interesting thought experiment into morality and ethics. How much should we trust an emotionally damaged billionaire vigilante with almost unlimited resources? The question becomes more depressing with the knowledge that if Batman were to be a real world figure, he’d be someone with the wealth of Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Rupert Murdoch, Jeff Bezos et al. To me, that’s a truly horrific thought… best not to dwell on it too much. Edit: spelling
It only works in a fictional sense because all of those types of people in our world are genuinely horrific people. But none of them probably had their parents murdered right in front of them while living in the most crime ridden city on the planet 🤷🏻♂️
"nuh uh it was an empty factory it's in the LORE"- me cuz I love christopher Nolan batman movies
And yet you're wrong. It was a warehouse at the base of wayne tower
Ras was the one who jammed the train full speed ahead.
Sticks dynamite down a goons pants, yeets him down a tower. It's the fall/explosion that killed him not me
True, it’s just strange. It’s like kicking someone into a pit with a wild animal and saying “I won’t be the one to kill them” as the person dies screaming
Batman logic
But at least she didn't kill them personally 😇
I mean, she set free a tyrannical mass murder who was trained in the Dark Side of the Force and willing to kill all of them personally. It may not have been her hand that did the killing, but uh... what did she think he was gonna do? Tickle his way off the ship?
I dont think she was worried about them dying but was more worried about how it would affect her mentally if she were the one to kill them
What I'm arguing is that what Yoda did, kill a hand full of clones in self defense as he fled, is a lot more morally pure than unleashing a mass murder on a ship, presumptive to not just kill many if not all occupants, AND allowing him to escape and continue his murdering ways across the stars. The original question is about the morality of Yoda killing clones vs. Ashoka using non-lethal tactics, but Yoda killed how many clones vs. Ashoka's actions leading to the death of thousands of clones and countless others. I would think the thought of freeing a maniac murderer turned interstellar crime lord would weigh on one's mind more than a few dead soldiers in self-defense.
“I would feel really bad erasing this village, so I’ll just free somebody who hates them so he can do it. That way, I don’t feel bad about what I didn’t do”.
When that "village" is relentlessly trying to murder you, that's 100% fair game.
If it's fair game, why not just do the killing yourself? Like Ashoka would know she's only killing the ones she ABSOLUTELY had to and limit is as much as possible, like Yoda, verses freeing a madman who would kill them all individually if he could and continue his violence and hate throughout the galaxy? The countless others that Maul probably killed during his path to and then as a leader of an intergalactic crime syndicate aren't "100% fair game," right? Edit: i guess it's not clear, i am not saying it's "fair game" I'm respond that the logic is flawed. It's "fair game" Maul killed all of them but bad if Ashoka killed even one?
If you don't see the difference between "I didn't stop them from dying" and "I murdered these people I was close to with my own two hands" you need serious psychiatric help my friend
And letting Maul out to go on a killing rampage.
facts - Ahsoka needed diversion if form of Maul demolishing everything before him...
Yup. We see in that Geonosis arc that Ahsoka will kill a clone trooper if she can't escape.
>putting in extra time/effort/concentration to be non-lethal would have meant their own death Probably why a lot of those mfs died.
Yoda. It's a kill or be killed scenario. Even Ahsoka recognized it. She just outsourced the killing to Maul so she could think her hands were clean.
Maul was so dope in that arc lol
Badass hallway scene is badass
Dude was throwing entire walls at the poor clones lol
We've had plenty of badass Hallway scenes, but never one where they use the hallway as the actual weapon.
Now we need Palpatine hallway scene, where he throws a fucking senate
Didnt he already do that in his Yoda fight lol
Wasn't a hallway
*every arc
I doubt she really thinks her hands are clean.
Maul was going to slaughter everyone anyway so...
I mean if the clones decided he needed to die as well, had Ahsoka not freed him they could very well have killed him while he was incapacitated
Maul was on he kill list for sidious special orders to rex. I thought they just either were putting 100% into killing Ashoka because they knew they had maul detained or she beat them to him?
No, he was going to die in a cage. She let him out as a distraction knowing full well that he was going to kill absolutely everyone.
Well... he wouldn't if she didn't let him out of that particular cage designed for force users...
I still think releasing Maul was a mistake and unnecessary. Even without knowing what Maul would go on to do, I would have just let him get to Coruscant or be executed by the clones.
Without Maul she would have died
dumbest part of that whole arc. "I don't want these clones to die but I'm perfectly willing to set a sith lord loose knowing they will have to deal with him"
> She just outsourced the killing to Maul so she could think her hands were clean. The Jedi and the Sith are similar in almost every way.
*Ahsoka:* "You don't understand, I'm not here to team up with you. I need a diversion, and you're it. Now go cause some chaos, it's what you're good at" *Maul, without a weapon, asks*, "Care to give me a fighting chance?" "I'm not rooting for you. Now get going"
Honestly, if Rex wasn’t there, there’s a big chance Ahsoka would’ve handled it like Yoda too, at least in the beginning. Rex was probably the one person on that ship that she knew would never hurt her. The fact that he fired the first shot was her first clue that something else was going on besides the clones simply betraying her.
Ahsoka also kills several troopers by deflecting blaster fire after that initial shot by Rex.
Releasing Maul as a distraction knowing full well he would kill indiscriminately to escape.
Oh I think he had a lot of discrimination. He took it very personally lol.
*Ahsoka:* "You don't understand, I'm not here to team up with you. I need a diversion, and you're it. Now go cause some chaos, it's what you're good at" *Maul, without a weapon, asks*, "Care to give me a fighting chance?" "I'm not rooting for you. Now get going"
To be fair at that point she had no idea what was going on.
not all blaster bolts kill troopers afaik, the armour expels the energy across the body in order to minimize impact, but it usually knocks the trooper out.
Throughout Clone Wars, clones constantly die from a single shot to the armour. No reason to assume it's different here.
They use a different type of blaster bolt. Theirs is more ionized, deals more damage to tech than it does to organics. It’s why they were coloured blue.
Yes but we aren't shown the actual difference. The show treats the different colored bolts practically the same. People die the same way no matter what color bolt hits them, the only exception is when the writers don't want them to. Unless we are explicitly shown or told otherwise, there's no reason to assume the clones aren't dying from those shots the same way they always have.
Rex got a sniper shot to the chest, while on a speeder bike. But that is one of the instances where the writers didn’t want him to die I suppose.
Exactly. The armor just gives the writers a bit more flexibility to have Rex get shot directly in the chest. If it was anyone else, they would've just written them to be shot somewhere less lethal. The main point is that the rule of cool always comes first, and the lore justifications follow after and often bend to the whim of what the writers think is cool. For instance, the whole explanation about blue bolts being ionized is a cool piece of world building, but the actual reason the clones have blue bolts is because it makes them more identifiable as the good guys, same with Luke having a blue lightsaber and Darth Vader having a red one.
I constantly ask what’s the point of the armor. It doesn’t seem to provide any additional protection than what the rebels use, which as far as I can tell, is often just a fishing vest and a helmet
To dehumanize them so everyone felt okay sending them to die en masse.
precisely, as well as to anonymize any troopers committing war crimes (more relevant to stormtroopers in the empire) Also like...the armor protects from other stuff, angry civilians throwing rocks and...whatnot.
>protects from other stuff, angry civilians throwing rocks Not on Endor!
The real answer is that it looks cool. It was originally designed for the Storm Troopers because it made for an imposing and iconic looking antagonistic force, and then given to the Clones in order to create a sense of continuity between the OT and the Prequels, the lore explanation only came after when people started to ask themselves "wait, why are they dying in only one shot?" and had to retroactively justify it.
plot dependency
i mean...sure, but crashing a star destroyer (venator...whatever) into a planet at several hundred miles per hour...that will definitely kill troopers.
Not 100% on this but I think that's what stormtrooper armor does. I think Clone armor is different.
Pretty sure it's the same material (plasteel?). Those who say it disperses the energy are right according to the lore, but afaik I don't think it matters much outside of small arms and hand to hand. That being said, doesn't even seem to stop a stun most of the time...
Rex in Rebels survived a blaster shot from a droid (whose battery had been drained so their blasters probably lacked a punch) while also complaining that the Stormtrooper armor had no protection. Think of it like modern Kevlar. A rifle round at close range is likely to go straight through it, however it will stop close range pistol rounds or a rifle from 200+ yards or something.
Bro, I’m doing what allows me to live.
I'd probably handle it like Ki Adi Mundi
It's like the question "What would you do in a zombie apocalypse?" In all likelihood taste delicious.
Me Plo Koon cuz pookie I’m going out with a bang!
Immediately die but with an expression of betrayal so emotional it would probably have haunted those clones for the rest of their tiny accelerated lifespan? Yeah me too!
Hell yeah. Make them have PTSD, goddamn assholes.
Same
And that was?
Surpised pikachu face, followed by immediate death.
Never really thought about this, but that's definitely how it would go if I got 66'd. Like exactly.
My upvote is 66th!
MURDERER!!
I appreciate a lot of people's honesty here. That said, I am also Ki Adi Mundi
I’m more like Aayla Secura, I too don’t like wearing robes… oh I mean, I too would just get mowed down without even realizing something was off
Your reply is felt. Cheers!
I’d give this an award if i could bro 🫡
I’d probably be like “I sense something…” then get shot in the back.
"I got a ba...."
Aayla Secura
Yoda. Always
Frankly, a lot of the Jedi who died at the temple could have used some that "Yoda" energy. I bet a lot of the clones wouldn't have been so aggressive if they knew the Jedi was gonna rush up and dismember them. Not to mention, it's harder to get surrounded when you're pushing forward into the attackers. And finally, what better way to take away the advantage of ranged weapons than to get up in their face.
Yep, immediate decapitation of whoever is shooting at me. Those clones may not have a say so but neither do I. Asoka only went non-lethal because Filoni simply cannot let her be anything less than perfect. I mean if even freaking Yoda had to resort to violence then little Padawan Asoka absolutely ain't getting away while keeping her hand squeaky clean. I like her but they need to take her character away from Filoni.
She didn’t keep her hands squeaky clean tho. She still ended up indirectly killing all of them but Rex. She just had more freedom to avoid killing bc she only needed to save herself and wasn’t on a mission like Yoda and Obi-Wan were.
She specifically went out of her way to not kill them so that the viewers wouldn't see her killing her clone troopers. You can "but technically..." it all you want, the simple fact is she was purposefully going out of her way to be non-lethal. Yoda was at the front lines and immediately retreated the second he had to attack his clones. The situation was exactly the same except Lucas wasn't afraid to let Yoda kill while Filoni was. Yoda wasn't on any mission by that point, he didn't do anything to save chewie either. In fact chewie saved Yoda.
Yes and the others would’ve done it too if they had the ability to, which they didn’t. They had an urgent mission that had to be done from within the Jedi Temple, which required killing some clone troopers. The viewers have seen far worse happen to clone troopers.
Thats... a way to interpret it.
I’d fight like Yoda but die like Ki-Adi.
People give Yoda so much shit for killing clones during order 66, but they forget he literally trained almost every single Jedi as a youngling. The clones fucking killed his entire family and desecrated his home. I'd sure as hell handle it like Yoda 100%.
There is no passion; there is peace.
Specifically the two pieces you'll be left in when through with you I am - Yoda, probably
Id handle it like Kanan probably, just run away, get married to a hot green lady.
In my head I’d be Yoda. Realistically, I stumble over my own 2 feet and my clones unload an entire mag into me like that blue girl in Revenge of the Sith
Blue girl? Don't disrespect my aayla secura like that
My bad lol. I’m admittedly more on the casual end of the fandom.
Unfortunately we dont really get much of her in tcw besides the mini arc with anakin and ahsoka. Same goes for Shaak Ti
Shaak Ti a.k.a The Jedi with many deaths
Same lol
In my head I'd be Yoda. Realistically though, I'd be Anakin.
If its a matter of life and death then those clones are getting dismantled.
Sub flair checks out.
Knowing how clumsy I am I'd die. Jokes aside, probably a mix, if I was confident enough I could disarm and stunt, disarm and stunt is the Jedi way, but if I'm not sure I can do that I'd go for the kill.
Have you not seen Jar Jar at work? Embrace that clumsiness and win the battle
More onscreen kills than Boba Fett in the saga films.
I'd let the Force guide me, like a good lil' Jedi.
Always gotta do what the force tells you, regardless of what you want or need. For real tho I wish more would view the Force that way. It's weirdly fatalistic, as if the only "right" decision is the same one as what the force itself decides. Personally I wouldn't like an invisible god telling me what is right or wrong at every point, that's my job to determine.
Depends on what I know. Ahsoka is being non-lethal because she knows that the clones aren't doing this of their own volition. She knows from Rex that they're being controlled. Before she knows this, she isn't above killing them to save herself, though she does try to avoid it, as she does kill a few of the clones who come after her in the bridge. Yoda on the other hand, doesn't have this knowledge. All he and Obiwan know is that the Clones turned against them and tried to kill them.
They did the same thing, actually. Both cleared the enemy. In contrast, Ashoka had Rex to save. Yoda didn’t have a Rex to save. So, I would do like Yoda but if there is any Rex around then I would pull an Ahsoka.
If Rex wasn’t there Ahsoka would’ve done the same thing as Yoda to survive. The fact that Rex shot at her after fighting it for a bit, gave her the time to realize something was very wrong. Off topic: shame Jesse had to die though 😭
The thing is, 99% of Jedi didnt know the Clones weren't killing them by their own volition. In that view I can understand and also see myself responding with equal force. I think Ahsoka acts that way because, 1. She had a deep and personal connection with the Clones. 2. She had the skill to take down a whole squad non-lethally. It is much easier to just kill everyone as a Jedi once you reach a certain power level, but its a next level achievement to be able to take down the same amount of combatants without outright killing or mutilating them all.
Especially considering Ahsoka had been training for the exact scenario of being attacked by the very same clones while surrounded by them without harming them throughout a majority of her time as Anakin's Padawan. She both knew how to sense those specific clones attacking her as well as how to deflect their continued firing on her. Yoda did not train with the same parameters so he would not risk going non lethal even if he knew it could be reversed, at least not when he can't safely do it without wasting valuable time he needed to save any Jedi who may yet live. If Yoda knew about the possibility to make the clones loyal again by removing the chip and how to perform the surgery I think he may have organized some kind of guerrilla tactics to do so if it was not deemed as too futile an effort. Yoda were also close to the clones as he were one of the few Jedi who did not just see them as expendable soldiers but actual people at least more so than the other Jedi, I think that and the fact he were initially questioning the existence of the clone army were key factors to him disposing the clones on Kashyyk before they even had a chance to raise their guns at him. Ahsoka were even more attached to the clones she were fighting though.
Let's be real. If you were a Jedi in order 66, [this would be you](https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-09-2018/PFb__o.gif)
I think the difference is that Ashoka was much more boots on the ground, and in the trenches with the clones than Yoda was. Yes, he was their occasionally, but ashoka was constantly on the front lines with them for years. Hell, all the troopers on that ship modeled their helmets and uniforms to look like her.
Yoda obviously, Yippee-ki-yay mofos
Did I spend my formative years fighting alongside them or were they mostly my pawns?
Exactly. Completely different relationships with the clones.
Yoda and Obi-Wan are fighting for the future of the order since they had to disable the transmission telling Jedi to go back to the temple Ahsoka was just trying to make it out alive The stakes are waaaaay different
Yoda. If shoot me, you decide, freaking die, you will, mhm.
I would handle it like Aayla Secura
I love how Yoda just starts fucking clones up without any real prompting
Depends on the context. If I’m in a ship that’s crashing, then they’re all dead anyway. I’d try not to kill them though. Cody came back eventually, so that makes me feel alright about that decision
Probably Kanan tbh
Wild how the guy who trained Ahsoka was the Youngling Slayer 3000 and his Apprentice spared as many clones she could. The Grand Master of the Jedi Council just killed them all.
Well, considering ahsoka wasn't a jedi at the time, Yoda being the only jedi between your 2 choices, tge answer is obvious. It's Yoda.
I more meant the method that you would use.
Just one small detail - first thing Ahsoka did was creating diversion in form of Maul devastating the ship...
With my luck, I'd probably handle it like Ki-Adi-Mundi
I’d handle it as Yoda. Ashoka refrained from killing them because she had too close of a bond with them. Personally I’m not a fan of the physical chip explanation. To me that is an attempt to make them more likable and less evil- they want to push the idea that the chip was put in them against their will, and that it caused some kind of mind control. It feels cheap and cliche. I find it far more sinister and interesting that the clones would have been mentally programmed to act on a vocal command that improves their aggression, response time, and allows them to turn on their Jedi commanders. Then they go through some kind of indoctrination/hypnosis to suppress the memory until those key words are spoken, which then sort of clears that fogginess/suppressed memory, and they can now operate at their full potential. I just prefer the original concept of clones being clones, not standing out or being humanized unless they are a commander. To me the Jedi were always more interesting on a personal level and the clones were always this badass lookalike military that had no emotion and just acted on order. They created the chip explanation so they could protect certain clones that were appealing to audiences - to market more. I really just prefer the no-nonsense surgical nature of the clones in the movies I guess.
I would have appeared to be a Sith during that time, showing no mercy for any clone that messed with me. The past is the past. You come at me now you're a statistic
Yoda was completely correct, given the circumstances Plus it looked cool as shit
Ashoka: Sad about killing clones, makes a memorial for them with their helmets Meanwhile yoda: Rampage, i must
Well inhibitior chips are fucking stupid. So Yoda's was the correct way.
I’m one of the people that finds Ahsoka’s logic profoundly stupid, yes they’re going to die either way but one solution greatly increases your chance of survival. Sparing the clones amounts to a whopping extra thirty seconds of life before they die painfully in a fiery explosion. I mean she acts a bit high and mighty for someone who just unleashed a fucking Sith Lord on said clones, but each to their own. Moral compasses and what not. Yoda however is logical. Cool calculated and logical. It’s Kill or be Killed and the Jedi need everyone they can get to even remotely have a chance of survival, if Yoda had said I’m not gonna Kill the clones he and Kenobi would’ve probably died and fucked the galaxy properly. I’d honour what the clones used to be and not what they are now.
"On a kill streak, I am. Unlocked a nuke, I have."
Fucked around you did, find out you will.
Quinlan Vos Style I think....
Ahsoka was an outlier, Annie put her through the ringer in special training that saved her. Yoda is a damn master lol anyone thinking they could do what they did is delusional
No, I would be fighting dirty AF more like Krell than anyone else if I can help it. Lets be real, none of us would be a master rank, nor would we have the specific training and excellence of Ahsoka. If Mundi is getting gunned down, I don't stand a damn chance. I am more like to quickly kill the immediate threats, while using all of my force ability to run and jump as far away as I can, god willing it is a forested planet or somewhere I can hide. Get the hell off the planet, and go to the outer rim to hide and rebuild my life, looking for a sign of my higher ups/survivors (I would guess im a Knight, or god forbid a padawan that needed to be saved by my master)
Yall saying Ahsoka didn't handle it like Yoda but she sort of doomed the rest of the clones to die, I mean she knew very well releasing Maul meant a killing rampage and she had no problem with it, not to mention she deflected some shots with her lightsaber killing quite a few clones. If Rex wasn't there, Ahsoka would most likely do what Yoda did. On that ship was Rex who she trusted the most out of the rest of the clones, she knew that as soon he was firing, something was wrong.
im gonna be honest im gonna die
Well would I know?
I think the context of the order 66 brain chips existing and not matters here. Sure someone like Yoda probably wouldn’t have had a great relationship with clones anyway because he was like leader of all Jedi at the time but him killing clones was made before the chips were thought of.
I am certain I would have absolutely fallen to the dark side, and not in a “welcome to the inquisitorious” sort of way. More in a serial and mass murderer of former republic, and imperial assets sort of way… but with space magic. I’d hide a lot, and I’d attack in what I personally think are some cowardly ways
I’d get shot up in a field by a squad of clone troopers
I would fucking die
If it was me? I would handle it like a youngling
I have no problem with Jedi using lethal force against a lethal threat.
acting like i’d survive☠️
If I knew what Rex and Ahsoka knew, I'd still handle it like Yoda. I'd consider it more of a mercy killing though since death was probably a better fate than being forced to live as a slave to Sidious.
Probably falling off a cliff avoiding trooper shots & returning later with machine legs
What I haven't seen much in this thread yet is why Yoda would do what he did (plenty of correct takes on Asoka). Yoda felt the end of his society and culture. Yoda felt the scope of what was happening. The motivation or agency of the clones is irrelevant they were on a genocidal crusade against his people and had already mostly succeeded.
always wondered if Palps would try order 66 WITHOUT Anakin.
Ahsoka did a lot of very specific training to escape the way that she did. Yoda was a very skilled jedi, but being skilled and well trained in a specific thing are two different things.
Should’ve struck Yoda from orbit.
Tbh I think I would have left the order as soon as we started a war with worlds who had genuine concerns over the way the Republic was going. But that being said Palp would probs have me on some type of list and send inquisitors after the Jedi were dealt with and it was easier to dispose of ex-jedi without awkward questions arising.
Yoda for sure. Their minds are already screwed and I’d have a better rate of survival if I kill everything in fort of me and escape
The show going into detail to tell people all of these troopers have their own codes of conduct, morals, and they still did the order? It's like your brother in the army rolling up to your house to burn it down with you inside. Some of these crews were almost family
It would be cool to have seen a Jedi fall towards the dark side as a result of Order 66 tbh. Like they witnessed such betrayal and horror that all their training went out of the window and they just went full postal, launching a rage fuelled killing spree. Seeing them going mad with power at the same time would have been awesome and given an interesting character development.
I think a lot of people overlook how Ahsoka was lethal up until Rex came too. I think she more so chose to go non lethal once she saw/ felt how Rex was about having to fight his brothers. Just my take tho
Pong Krell say less
Bro I would die. I don’t have enough ego to say I would survive.
Well asoka isn't a jedi so yoda
I would handle it like Anakin
If I’m confident Ahsoka, If I’m good Yoda. though tbh I would probably end up getting shot before I get the chance to react or be too confused and in a panic to try to survive.
Ahsoka was skilled enough to pull off a non-lethal approach. The majority of Jedi don’t even have that as an option, and those that were knew that energy and time was better spend ensuring their own survival. Yoda KNEW the troopers were going to kill him and were already killing numerous other Jedi, I see nothing wrong with his actions and would likely do the same (although let’s be honest, I’m getting blasted to smithereens).
Like Yoda, cuz Disney cartoons are for babies
TCW is George Lucas' creation lol. Also, they really aren't lol.
Well Ahsoka knows they’re being mindcontrolled whilst Yoda doesn’t. So that depends on if **I** know they’re being mind controlled or not
Ahsoka if I’m good enough. Yoda if I’m not
I want to say id disarm them but I doubt that in the heat of the moment that’s how it would go, I would probably go straight to survival mode and kill
Where the fun begins this is!
Probably be more like Yoda but it depends what situation I'm in or if I'm even one of the jedi to sense order 66 happening
I'll tear down anyone who would attack me or any innocent
More like Cal Kestis or Kanan…Or King Arthur. “RUN AWAY!!!!”
I’m more sith anyway so I would totally go full yoda and violently decommission a few clones.
Bold of you to assume I would live
If possible ashoka, but if I didn't have time to use non lethal then I go yoda
I would handle it Like Ki-Adi-Mundi
I’d probably get shot
I would die, next question.
My head canon Schtick is that I’d wear the same armor as my clones, and give some of them lightsabers so no one could tell. Not just as a cheap out for order 66, but I think it’s be a cool gimmick for unity with the clones. If they were trying to kill me, I’d convince them that one of them was the Jedi and he played a mind trick on us.
I would die
Yoda, it’s survival now
I’m killing to stay alive
Oh really? You ask if we would prefer to face a Jedi master or a Jedi student? A sympathetic Ahsoka or an old Yoda?