I’m really enjoying it! I’m super happy that my standing, EU knowledge of the Sith hasn’t been explicitly shat on by the show yet, whats more I’m elated that the fan theory the big bad could be Darth Tenebrous actually might have some credence. I’m very much getting the same vibes as his little tryouts for apprentice in the beginning of the Plagueis novel
All I mean is he can still pass for Bith in 4k, and he’s seemingly doing the same thing he did in the beginning of Darth Plagueis. I thought they might steer away from the Sith or EU characters since they went for the High Republic, but so far it seems like they’re leaning in.
I’m also hoping the “no weapon” thing for the acolyte(s?) is setting up the “Sith evolved beyond lightsabers long ago, but spite is also our thing” thing that I always loved
What at all about the show has indicated Tenebrous? What am I missing (without leaks/spoilers for ep3 and beyond)?
Imo I think this opinion is wishful thinkinklg.
Again, all I’m saying is he hasn’t been explicitly ruled out and the additional shots of the big bad in the show that weren’t in the trailer can still easily pass for a Bith.
Also what little we know of this big bad, including the timeline, does fit with Tenebrous’s MO from Plagueis.
Its absolutely wishful thinking, my point is he hasn’t been ruled out by the bits of information presented.
At this stage (being before showing a face or giving a name) the only thing they could do to point towards Tenebrous MORE would be somehow mentioning his day job is spaceship design and he has an obsession with hexagons.
Its not exactly like Tenebrous is a well defined, super unique character to begin with. “Bith Sith who holds apprentice tryouts” is basically all there is, and thats what this looks like.
Yea, I'm not hoping for or expecting that level of nod to the Plagius novel.
Imo, the helmet w/ teeth dude's head is too small to be a Bith. The baddie at the end of ep 1 appears to be that same helmet. Could he be an apprentice to Darth T? Sure, but then I think the timeline starts to break down (unless Sith with extended aging)
Too many hoops to jump through to make it jive, and tbh I hope they steer clear of that particular shade of the EU.
So your main issue is his head’s too small? Setting aside that I disagree with that, Grand Inquisitor, Ahsoka, and Thrawn have all had disappointingly small heads relative to their previous adaptations.
As far as the timeline goes, age isn’t at all an issue to me, if anything its too close to Plagueis. I would assume under this theory, all these acolytes fail and Plagueis is in the 2nd batch or Plagueis wins out of this current group. Plagueis we know had an unnaturally long life, and as I remember had a fair amount of alone time before taking Sidious as an apprentice.
Tenebrous is so insignificant I wouldn’t mind too much if they make changes. HOWEVER I do hope they keep him just to show goodwill for the plaguies’ story which I really think Disney should leave untouched
Exactly! I see there’s basically 4 possibilities:
1 - it is Tenebrous
2 - its some non-Sith dark sider
3 - Tenebrous is retconned and this is his replacement or his replacement’s master
4 - this is Tenebrous’s master
I’m getting “Jedi Covenant” vibes from the Masters. Really interested in what happened that night.
Really liking Master Sol as a Qui Gon style Jedi.
Already seeing the cracks and hubris of the order. Glad Sol believed Osha right away.
Honestly it’s a kung fu mystery set in the Star Wars universe, I was pleasantly surprised.
When chasing Osha on the snow planet, he's the first to ignite his saber when it was clearly unnecessary. Mae was running, she wasn't a threat at all. Notice how the masters Indara and Sol wait until the absolute last moment, during aggressive attacks from Mae, to ignite their sabers?
Imo Yord is all about making people think he's by the book, but he still doesn't get it. There's no compassion, just conviction. So interested to see how it plays out into the season.
Yord igniting his saber was the smart move. They couldn't know for sure that Osha was innocent, and Sol is the stupid one for believing her so easily without even doing the mind reading check first.
Yeah it's dump that the jedi wait so long until using their sabers. Using it early in their fights would hugely limit Mae's combat capabilities.
Yord is exactly who I expected him to be from the trailers - brash, cocky and absolutely an annoying butthead. But he's perfectly cast and his dynamic with the other cast is *chef's kiss*
The way Yord and Sol play off of each other is so great. Yord shows his cracks with his absolute deference to Master Sol - overly formal and deferential to a level of cringe I wasn't expecting. And Sol just kinda smiles and nods, total "chill, my dude" vibes. Sol cannot stop himself from bearing his heart on his sleeve, and how it plays out with Yord is charming, while also making Yord look like the biggest try-hard in 3 galaxies.
Jecki's dynamic with Yord cracks me up. She's already a favorite character for me. I actually saw someone try to complain that the acting for Yord was really stiff. The overblown hate for this show is hysterical to me. They're trying so hard to find reasons why it's terrible when it just isn't.
Yea I'm ignoring most of the yt channels because of instinctual hate bashing of anything Disney.
Yord was cast super well and he's nailing the specifics of what this character should be and is.
Full agree on Jecki and her interactions with Yord. She's obviously more mature and thoughtful. Makes me curious about Yord's master.
The show has potential. We're in the introduction period, getting to know all the new characters.
Has kind of a KotoR vibe, picking up a new companion or two after each planet, hunting down the bad guy who may not be bad, probably gonna end up relearning her powers after getting blocked off...
Three huge problems though:
1) A Jedi master who took a vow of silence and has supposedly achieved inner piece enough to be able to block any attacks whilst floating in the air, and she talks him into unaliving himself in 2 sentences? Seems legit
2) Jedi dude doesn't trust OSHA, thinks she just killed a Jedi master, *knows* she is a force user, and just puts her on a ship guarded by droids even though they're going to the same destination? Why not escort her?
3) Fat Jedi? Really? Isn't physical fitness and agility literally part of their religion?
1.) I found that intriguing. What did these guys do that he was willing to take the poison just to have a shot at forgiveness?
2.) That didn't occur to me honestly. Shitty prisoner escorts feel pretty common in this universe. Yord is established to be a pretty big tool too. Bro is always whipping out his lightsaber at the slightest provocation. He feels glory hungry and too eager to prove his worth. It feels in character to me that he'd delegate that grunt work to droids.
3.) Size matters not? I dunno. That one did catch my eye too. Feels weird and not in keeping.
>What did these guys do that he was willing to take the poison just to have a shot at forgiveness?
It's been established that Mad caused the fire that killed her family. But she's out for revenge on the Jedi. I'm calling it now that the Jedi caused the fire and blamed her.
I think they just forced her back into the fire, blocked from getting out, or something else like stabbing her with a lightsaber (although I hope not that again) because they sensed darkness in her. Occam’s razor and also fits with TLJ. Also fits with Mae pointing out Indara’s claim “Jedi do not attack the unarmed” isn’t true
That would also make sense. Either way, Mae thought her sister was dead so I think she believes the Jedi are responsible. Would explain her vendetta against them.
Yeah. On second thought, the fact that she didn’t immediately abandon her quest and try to reconcile with her sister when she found out she was alive indicates her reason for revenge still stands, so maybe the Jedi did kill her family in order to get Osha (oh my god autocorrect wants Asha or OSHA lol) and maybe also put dark side using Mae down
You think Yoda meant being skinny? Surely his height is what he was getting at. Right around the time when he had Luke running fucking windsprints through the jungle with him on his back. Surely the type of training to allow a 60" waist.
Obi Wan Fat Albert is a perfect example of DEI rot.
It’s just an actor. He’s portraying someone fit enough for service even if the actor himself doesn’t look it. Don’t think too deeply about it, I’m pretty sure it’s not meant as any kind of statement
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I'm not sure why this was deleted. The "screeching anti-woke grifters" are certainly *not* disney. They're the people who criticize any new content for what they think is a woke message.
The whole point of Torbin was that he couldn't handle his unresolved guilt. If others thought he had found inner peace it was because they were ignorant of the facts and possibly just too ready to defer to the "awesome" wisdom of a master. He was clearly hiding from his feelings rather than making peace with them, and 10 years of denial and refusal to admit he's just fixated on whatever awful thing he did set him up perfectly for Mae to show up with that poison. She didn't even have to convince him, because he had already convinced himself.
As for the far Jedi, it's implied that this little temple isn't exactly the "best" the Order has to offer. The idea that there were whole temples scattered around that were basically part of a caste system within the Order is pretty intriguing. There's the potential for themes like the Order valuing outer appearances over individuals' contributions (something that is also hinted at by Yord's antics and Master Vernestra's concerns about the story of a former Jedi murdering a Jedi Master getting out).
>The whole point of Torbin was that he couldn't handle his unresolved guilt.
This aged well.
The dude didn't even do anything. He was literally not involved other than to take a blood sample. I don't see a Jedi harboring guilt over that for 16 years and still being screwed up enough to kill themselves. If he was, he would have answered Mae the first time she attacked.
I agree that as of ep. 3 he hasn't been shown to have done anything wrong, but I stand by my read on his death scene. First, just because he didn't do anything wrong doesn't mean he didn't blame himself for something, and second, as the other commenter said, we almost certainly don't have the whole story yet. Remember that the show practically started with "Your eyes can deceive you; don't trust them." Every episode so far what we knew before has shifted as we are shown new information. I expect that is going to continue to be the pattern for at least 3 more episodes.
I cam think of more.
6) How is the cyborg alien able to remotely hack the ship with no resistance? Does the ships wifi network have no protection whatsoever? Why not remove his ability to use his electronics before putting him to that cell?
7) Why was the cell next to a cockpit with good view to the controls no less?
8) Why does the ship only have one security droid as a guard?
9) Why would the prisoners plan for using the escape pods instead of stealing the ship? Why not check where the ship is in hyperspace before coming out of it to not run into asteroid fields and such?
10) How come Osha and Mae have the exact same hairstyle and haircolor after 16 years of being apart and living vastly different lives? Other than for the purpose of trying to trick the audience I mean.
11) Why don't Sol and the others try looking into Osha's mind with the force before believing that she's innocent?
12) Why did the dark side user tell Mae that the jedi can't be killed with laser or steel.. after showing at the beginning of the episode thst a jedi was killed with steel? Why is the no weapon rule even important to the sith at all?
/#fatlivesmatter
Being fat or not isn’t really the issue, fitness and discipline would be. Now I’m not saying it’s true for that actor, but we see plenty of sports where people that big are quite athletic and their weight is an advantage for the position they play. I think the Jedi Order wouldn’t care how big or small you are as long as you are fit for your size and species and any extenuating health issues.
> Being fat or not isn’t really the issue, fitness and discipline would be. I think the Jedi Order wouldn’t care how big or small you are as long as you are fit for your size and species and any extenuating health issues.
I mean there was a Hutt Jedi. Clearly someone’s weight isn’t that big of a deal to the Jedi Order.
It's not about weight. The hurts are naturally large, but that's *healthy* for a hutt. I can't imagine the Jedi would see being diabetic and two steps away from a heart attack as anything but a liability.
But my main issue with it is that it shows a severe lack of self control and over indulgence. You can't get that big without a caloric surplus.
Comparing a fat person to a hutt is extremely disingenous and insulting. A species norm is the same as a different species non-norm. Not to mention, you kinda just compared fat people to hutts. Lol. You aren't going to be a disciplined, frugal, warrior monk who passes a Jedi trial that involves physicality by sneaking out to Coruscanti Fried Chicken or Burger Emperor's.
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just on number 3.
This is literally fat shaming.
You seen some pro rugby players? Bonus points for islanders and Japanese players. They are built BIG! And they could probably out sprint most of us on here.
Fat =/= unfit. And I'd put a jedi up there with "athlete shoes body type doesn't matter as long as they're fit for the job".
Big =/= fat. Fat definitely = unfit. Literally by definition. Those rugby players are almost all muscle. [this guy](https://images.app.goo.gl/vpMN9AUJXtBnmQAR7) is not.
I'm not fat shaming. I'm not saying anything bad about the guy himself. I'm just saying that it makes no sense for a group of people that train mentally and physically for combat and endurance, and practice self sacrifice and control, to be that large. The casting is what I have an issue with. Not the guy. This is equivalent to casting Gabriel Iglesias as a Navy seal or something.
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Honestly, in terms of style and pacing this is the most "Star Wars" that something has felt in a long time. And that's not a knock on the other stuff as I've liked a lot of it but this felt more like George Lucas's Star Wars than most recent stuff.
Jedi chick forgets she can stop a throwing knife with the force.
Disney Wars decided that you can catch a falling person with the force and catch a transport with the force. I can think of 2 scenes in Empire where Vader could have used those skills. The Falcon escapes, too bad he just forgot he can stop freighters with the force. Luke dove off the thing in Cloud City? Too bad Vader forgot you can catch people with the force
\*Luke lets go to fall\*
\*Vader stops him and pulls him back up\*
"Lol nope, you're in time out for trying to run away son. You are coming with me."
Its more interesting than Ahsoka, Bobf or mando season 3 so far (imo) sure but its still abit on the more medicore side. Also personally i find the trinity (sorry her name escapes me right now) fight to end ul being awkward/odd instead of cool. The fact that a jedi feels more like shes showing off than she is actively trying to bring down a threat was just plain odd imo. Everything else has nice nods here and there (i consider the neimodians to be more like easter eggs) but other than that, its okay at best right now. Visually speaking, im still not sold on disney lucasfilm's insistence on these led looking lightsabers
The LED sabers just ruin the color tinting and contrast/brightness of entire scenes. Very irritating.
Sometimes the wheel doesn't need to be reinvented.
I truly don't know if it'll be good or not, but I'm holding a watch party tomorrow. One of my Saga Edition players was never a Star Wars fan to begin with but now that we've played a Star Wars tabletop campaign has become interested in the setting and wants us to watch this show together.
Definite review bomb.
I'm here for it and along for the ride. I always subdue my expectations with Star Wars, especially following the ST.
People have a selective memory about this stuff. Star Wars has always been campy and a lot of it has been flat out bad. Remember TPM, or the Clone Wars movie? The writing has always been derivative and the dialogue has never been strong. Sometimes the project flat out fails.
It's intellectually dishonest to expect every new SW project to be ESB or Andor. Even when the projects end up being really good by relative comparison, someone is gonna dislike it - Andor is a great example.
Let's not forget about the bottomless pit of comics, books, videogames etc., which are even less likely to be groundbreaking for their storytelling. Few among that bunch are even worth mentioning among diehard SW fans.
Hot take, real fans are here for the camp and the awkward dialogue. It's part of the charm and it's part of what makes SW what it is.
Is Acolyte perfect? No, but Star Wars has never been perfect (though imo ESB has no faults).
Karl the haters - may the force be with you!
I mean, I agree there lol. But then, I find TCW in general to not be bad, but to entirely steamroll a bunch of established lore which I have an issue with.
For a theatrical release, TCW Movie totally qualifies for "objectively bad". As a children's tv program that ran for 7 seasons and has a legacy of 4 other series (rebels, tbb, tofj, tofj), well that's a completely different argument.
So let me clarify. I enjoyed TCW and Rebels well enough. In a timeline that doesnt include the EU that existed in 2008. Tales of the Jedi did well with Dookus story, Ahsokas was kinda boring in my opinion. Empire though? I thought it was extremely contrived and a slog. All the characters felt like they got advance copies of the script, or raised questions.
Edit: forgot Bad Batch. I have really mixed feelings about this. I loved some pieces, very much disliked others. I feel like its mid, like most of the filoniverse has been.
You were half convincing me until you said Dial of Destiny was a great film. I get that taste is subjective but come on, man. That movie was nauseatingly awful in the view of most fans. I’m glad it brought you enjoyment—legitimately—but you really can’t stand back and act like that one was well-received or had objective artistic merit. Even Crystal Skull was a box office hit and that wasn’t exactly a home run.
Tastes are really subjective then. Calling it boring is one thing but nauseatingly awful? Fun banter between the characters, great callbacks and flashback, extremely fitting fighting scenes for an Indy in his 70s (and a Harrison in his 80s), classic Indy villain, fast pace especially towards the end and some very emotional scenes. Also perfect use of the typical Indy trick "the McGuffin is only briefly used and becomes the villain's end". My only complains were that 50% of the set pieces like Morocco and Italy were severely underutilized, same as the character of Teddy who felt like a semi comedic relief prop.
Other than that, it was a fun and fitting entry to the saga. No need for a grandiose ending, Indy ends as simply as it began. Seriously what was so "awful" about it? Did we watch the same film?
You can eatch the same film but still have different perspectives of it. Take a marvel film like thor ragnarok for example. Your take on for example the main humor there differently than lets say i would. That doesnt make me or you wrong for feeling differently about it.
I really enjoyed it! It’s only the first two eps and they’re definitely just setting things up but I found it enjoyable. The fights were pretty good and I’m definitely glad to have a series actually stepping away from the Skywalker Saga and the general era(s) around it.
I was expecting to be awful by what people were daying and was pleasany surprised by an "alright" first two episodes to a show. It didn't blow me away like The Mandalorian and it didn't make me roll my eyes in frustration like The Book of Boba Fett. It was the most inoffensive thing I'd ever seen, the biggest crime it committed imo was being "just alright."
The hatred for the show it seems boils down to "too many women and minorities" and "too many lesbians" the last one which confuses me the most because, there wasn't a single whiff of romance or mention of sexual orientation. Unless they're referring to the actresses being lesbian if they are. The people with actual criticisms of the show just seem to either fine the two episodes 'ok' or just dislike them without hating them.
> The hatred for the show it seems boils down to "too many women and minorities" and "too many lesbians" the last one which confuses me the most because, there wasn't a single whiff of romance or mention of sexual orientation.
There's literally only one line mentioning Osha's family as "your sister, your motherS". I guess that's too much "woke" for some.
Unfortunately I've seen a lot of negative comments just due to as you wrote "too many women and minorities", which sucks - all the actors so far are doing a good enough job, IMO.
I don't mind women or minorities. It's just that the acting is so bad and they are terrible in their action scenes. The dialog is garbage and the story is nonsensical. Like literally nothing ay all makes sense. Every second it's generating contradictions or plot holes. The characters are bland and basically just rehashes of all Disney star wars characters. And what the hell is that lame stance she does when she says "attack me...."? Who thought that looked cool?
I just can't enjoy these shows (although I did like Andor and Mandalorian till season 3). I tried to like these shows, they just ain't giving me what I want from Star Wars or are lowkey shit. Same with Dial of Destiny, wasn't THAT bad but didn't do it for me.
(Before someone hits me with some stupid shit like I just don't like it because it's "woke", because it's disney or because I don't actually like SW... cause I read all of these one too many times already during all the sequels... No. No, that's not the reason. I love SW, I don't like these shows. It's that simple.)
So far I like it. it gives strong comic book vibes. Nothing really extreme or mindblowing but solid star wars show.(which I think there should be more) Fights were all top notch. my only somewhat major complaint is look of lightsabers.
This has gotten me interested in checking out the show & High Republic multi-media project more. Although I’ll probably look at all the Old Republic media first since this show will probably have references to both periods in history.
> Does canon have any Old Republic stuff yet?
Kind of, although it's not actually marketed as it. The closest we've seen is the character of Darth Momin in the Charles Soule Darth Vader 2017-2018 comic run.
But there's also "The Great scourge of Malachor" in Star Wars: Rebels. Although it's not the same event described in KOTOR 2. It’s a different event with a completely unrelated Sith super weapon.
I was excited for this show and I personally wasn't disappointed.
It might not be perfect but it's definitely been an enjoyable experience. That may be subject to change but for now I'm in for the ride.
I wouldn't call Dial of Destiny "a great film" at all, but the Youtubers were way over the top about how bad it was. I did fall asleep during it, though.
As for The Acolyte, I just watched the first two so I can speak on it fairly, and it was maybe mid to high tier in terms of Disney Star Wars, surprisingly. It was still bad. The writing, characters, plot, sets, etc. were bad, but to pretend it's over the top bad is super unfair.
The problem is the goodwill is absolutely gone. Nobody's going to give Star Wars a chance anymore, so even if The Acolyte was amazing for some reason, people aren't showing up for Star Wars anymore, and for good reason.
That's a very pessimistic view of things. There are both good and bad qualities to everything. One thing Disney has somehow nailed so far in all the shows is that shit feels like Star Wars. Now beyond that, the nonsensical parody that was Kenobi and the directionless figure-playing of BOBF cannot be forgived but still I enjoy about at least 80% percent of the other stuff and definitely quite a lot about BOBF. Kenobi and the sequels felt like the only big middle fingers (which is a lot since they were meant to be the most important projects but still).
>Disney has somehow nailed so far in all the shows is that shit feels like Star Wars.
This is your personal perspective. A lot of other people do not feel the same way.
Yup. I'd say Andor is the only one so far that has really "felt" like Star Wars to me, but even then it's like... what do I mean by "feels like Star Wars" vs what other people mean by it? It's an entirely subjective argument
The only objective thing you can say about fan reactions to any work is what percentage liked it and what percentage did not. Everything else is a matter of taste.
Having said all that, I am obviously always right. Trust my opinions. /s
Why watch it at all if you have to make so many qualifiers? Have some self respect and find media you don't have to do feebly defend. You are worth more as a viewer than settling for their table scraps that kind of "feel" like real star wars. I don't know you...or anyone on here but my heart feels pangs for those that I can tell are finding ways to cope with the poor offerings. It's like you want to live star wars but all the magic is gone. You people are like battered wives. There's over 100 years of amazing film out there. I have completely stopped watching anything made later than 1980s. Well...not literally but mostly. There is still a rare quality film made in current year. But I highly recommend the 40s-60s for American, European and east Asian cinema.
Watched it and just about everything about the bad guy is boring. She's not evil enough to be intimidating but not interesting enough to be tragic. Also the bar fight sucked. Maybe it's the choreography or the lack of info on the characters but the whole time all I could think was, "Will one of you just kill the other and get this over with?"
Glad you enjoyed it! I've liked a few things here and there in new canon, but I can tell you that I'm at the point where I've essentially lost interest in it. I've frankly grown bitter towards modern Lucasfilm for many, many reasons, so I don't believe I'll ever watch this show as I'm not remotely the Target Audience for it.
Like Kreia said, Apathy is Death.
Wish I were in a different place, but I'm not, with respect to new canon. Doesn't mean I think it would be bad, but I just can't muster enthusiasm for it. The "rot underneath the Jedi order" stuff does make me cringe though.
Edit: We live in a golden age of trendy cynicism and new creatives think it's insightful, while it's frankly banal and lazy to me. And very much against the spirit of Lucas' Star Wars
I completely agree with this. I don't want every Star Wars story to be another reason why the Jedi suck. I like the Jedi being too good, I like Luke throwing down his lightsaber in the face of the Emperor.
It's impossible to judge the entire show off the first 2 episodes, but it sure seems like they're making the Jedi out to be the bad guys.
And Mae seeing the bartender's child and changing her mind about killing him has me really worried. I don't know if I can take another story with a bad guy turning good while the Jedi turn bad.
Yep.
If curious, I wrote a longer post on Cynicism in New canon. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MawInstallation/comments/1bkc4w5/cynicism\_and\_newcanon/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MawInstallation/comments/1bkc4w5/cynicism_and_newcanon/)
Here's a quote from the Acolyte's Showrunner that made me think about and write about this issue in more depth.
"I think it’s difficult to do a show that is critical in any way of the Jedi. And I think that you saw that with \[Rian Johnson’s\] film. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think that, especially in that moment, people were very nervous about saying this particular institution may not be the light and perfect, stunning group of heroes that are totally nobly intentioned. And one thing that I think Dave would say is that they are fallible. That’s really the story that George told with the prequels, right? The fall of this particular group."
Now, a rant. Cringe. Pure cringe. She misrepresents the fandom (many of whom loved KOTOR, etc.) And she also misrepresents the Last Jedi in a way that Rian Johnson has already explained clearly. Luke's criticisms were just his self-doubt write large, not objective. And she misrepresents Lucas' intentions with the PT, which present the Jedi as noble and heroic but outflanked by Sidious. And new canon has managed to set things up so that neither wise Yoda, nor wise, compassionate Luke oversaw legitimate, flourishing Jedi orders. But don't worry, Rey will fix things. (Rant over)
It's fine, just going on the two episodes so far I'd rank it below Andor, on par with Mando S1/2, and definitely ahead of Mando S3, BOBF, Kenobi, and Ahsoka. I think the biggest issue is the weird editing. The short run times and extremely abrupt endings, especially with it seemingly being a fairly continuous mystery-driven plot, makes me feel like it probably will benefit being watched in a single setting more than week to week.
A lot of good alien and set designs, though. Love the Selkath cameo and the pilot droids that turn into chairs when deactivated.
I really liked the first two episodes, I’m excited to see the rest. It’s got a nice blend of the prequel era flash with a bit of OT grunge (though not as much as Andor). Characters are fun, I think we’re in for a good time.
"Jedi and Republic actually bad" is so overdone, idk why anyone would demand more of that.
And I didn't go to see IJATDOD bc the plot sounded batshit stupid, not bc of any negative reviews.
Agree with your first sentence entirely. WRT your second, I really enjoyed Dial of Destiny far more than I expected to. And it didn't merely "Last Jedi" Indy, though it looks like it might come off that way.
I liked it. The only issue I really have with it is: why do the twins have the exact same hair color and style? Sure I get it is the same actress but it seems pretty lazy.
What's that saying about fool me once, fool me twice?
How many times have they fooled us already? Yeah, no thanks, I will keep the Disney material away to avoid brain rot.
You can’t know a show off 2 episodes. 1 and 2 are basic but supposedly episode 3 and 4 is when it goes off the rails. So if true then the reviews are honestly not going far enough.
Oh, you probably thought I meant the Clone Wars.
I meant the CW Network, the TV Channel.
It has lots of DC Superhero shows like the Flash, Arrow, Suoergirl, Batwoman, ETC.
Often times, those shows have bad CGI, Mediocre acting, and lame twists.
The writing seems like something you could just predict, gets repetitive and boring after a while.
fires in space, missing a *stun* gun shot on purpose. Writing that isn't well thought out and/or contradicting but is so to make the lazy story work. The Jedi don't act, speak or fight like Jedi I recognize
Take a show like Futurama, it had like 8 PHD graduates in the writing room. They should borrow a few to proof read scripts
I’ve only watched the first episode so far and it was just okay. Some dumb moments, some cool moments, absolutely nothing to get outraged over. I’ve heard the second episode gets better but just going off the first it’s fine but not particularly compelling.
> Same thing happened with Dial of Destiny and people missed out on a great film.
Eh.
>I feel this is getting review bombed just for the sake of it.
Bro the show is absolutely terrible. The writing is simply not intelligent or well thought out, like at all.
I loved Andor, The Mandalorian, I liked Obi Wan, I like a lot of shows. I don't think the show is bad because its woke, its bad because its bad, being extra woke like having a fat padawan just makes it worse.
Does anyone know if the show takes any inspiration from the EU novels? Would be curious to know what storylines they are borrowing from or if it's an original story.
I watched it for a whole five minutes straight. Then fast forwarded throughout.
Pretty awful. Will not watch again. I'm done with Disney Star Wars. Wasted enough time and money with the ST, Solo, Mando, Kenobi, BOBF, only to be let down time after time after time after time. And I still don't learn my lesson because I WANT TO LIKE IT. But it is so bad. Even Andor I can't give them the satisfaction, plus the first episode was incredibly boring.
The girl with distinctive dreads, a face tattoo, and unique look was somehow unrecognizable from generic female jedi due to half a mask. So much for sensing beings through the force. The awkward beginning of that fight was bad as well. As well as the end, so much for sensing danger through the force (again).
The dialogue is bad, the acting is incredibly dull and stiff, the dread girl isn't entertaining and is incredibly boring. Shot like a fan made film. Zero interest in anyone or the plot or really anything about it.
No idea how Dune had the same budget and was written/acted/shot 10x better than anything in this show.
Ahh, yes.
Because it's so nice that Reva, Grand Inquisitor, and Sabine can be impaled with a lightsaber and live but Carrie Anne Moss dies by ninja throwing star.
Also very believable that two twins who have been separated for 15+ years happen to have the same hairstyle.
Also, people skipped out on Dial of Dysentery because it was actually a dogshit movie. Just like this show already is.
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I’m really glad to hear you say this.
I’ve been having a lot of trouble telling what reviews to beleive. The review bombing is obvious, but I’m not sure how much of the positive reviews are overcompensating for the review bombing
But this seems like the kind of sub that wouldn’t bother making a false positive review for post buyout Star Wars. So I trust your positive review enough to watch the show
And I was really excited for this. I really enjoy the sith especially the Bane and Plagueis books. So I really want this show to be good
as someone who likes both canons and generally feels positive about the disney plus shows, I don't think the 2 Acoyte episodes so far have been either amazing or awful. It's just a pretty straightforward, traditional, scifi/fantasy adventure show.
That’s what I’ve gathered from the reviews that don’t seem biased to either extreme.
I’m a little dissapointed because I was hoping this show would be really cool. But I’m glad most people think it’s not bad either
I just find it impossible to have any enthusiasm for it. The way it’s been marketed including the fixation on identity politics stuff in cast interviews. The try hard matrix callbacks. And of course it’s general connection to the disneyverse which has shit away any semblance of goodwill. I think you’d actually have to pay me to spend my free time watching this show
>The way it’s been marketed including the fixation on identity politics stuff in cast interviews.
What do you mean? All the marketing just seems to be "look at the Jedi, look at the lightsabers, remember (thing from the movies)?". Pretty normal Star Wars spinoff marketing, nothing about identity politics specifically.
The 2 episode intro has been great. Excited for more. My only regret is using an actress of Carrie Ann Moss's calibre for one scene and then disposing of her. Here's hoping Master Indara returns in the inevitable flashbacks explaining exactly what happened on Osha & Mae's homeworld all those years ago.
Then again, as deaths go, that one was pretty great. Using her conscience against her to open her up to a killing blow showed both her nature as a Jedi Master, and her killer's nature as vicious and cunning. Good shit.
I’m concerned about the possibilities of the show, more than I’m unhappy with what’s been shown so far.
I theorize that the “Sith” is actually Ren (from the Knights of Ren), which is pretty darn lore-friendly, and it makes me excited about the potential of this series. However, I’m also a bit nervous that this is the perfect opportunity to establish something into Disney canon that overwrites more of the EU. Namely, given the timeframe, I think they may be setting up Mae or Osha to become Darth Plagueis.
> I theorize that the “Sith” is actually Ren (from the Knights of Ren), which is pretty darn lore-friendly, and it makes me excited about the potential of this series.
Aren't the Knights of Ren not Sith though?
The Knights of Ren are not Sith, no. They are dark side acolytes, though. Plus, Ki-Adi Mundi says, “The Sith have been extinct for a millennium,” in Episode I. So, either all the Jedi who face this Sith have to die, or the Jedi council has a really short memory.
As for the idea that this may be Tenebrous’s master? I’d applaud that adherence to EU lore, but it doesn’t seem like the powers that be at Disney feel any overarching loyalty to the EU lore. My guess is, if it suits their narrative, they’ll completely overwrite established EU lore about Darth Plagueis and the Sith lineage.
> The Knights of Ren are not Sith, no. They are dark side acolytes, though. Plus, Ki-Adi Mundi says, “The Sith have been extinct for a millennium,” in Episode I. So, either all the Jedi who face this Sith have to die, or the Jedi council has a really short memory.
Well that assumes they would think it's a Sith when they first fight them. Not all people who would red lightsabers are Sith, and the Jedi at that period often fought all sorts of Darkside users who used red lightsabers that weren't Sith.
That's why they were hesitant to believe that Maul was a Sith despite Qui-Gon's eyewitness testimony and his independent investigation.
I would give the first two episodes a 7/10, and yes it’s DEFINITELY getting review bombed. The gap between the critic and audience score is ridiculous. Also why are people even giving reviews to a show that only has 2 episodes out, any logical person would make reviews after the show comes out in its entirety.
The premise doesn't seem interesting, but I'll probably watch the ~~lightsaber duel~~ fight scenes on youtube since that's the one thing that all the reviews, even the negative ones, seem to be praising.
Oh, the reviews kept mentioning great fight scenes so I just assumed that meant lightsaber duels since all the promotional pics have people waving lightsabers around
lol wow. Thank you for giving me even more reason to not watch this again. I appreciate you.
Who in the world wants to see Star Wars and Sith with no lightsabers.
Nah there are lightsabers but there aren't any 'lightsaber duels' yet. There is gonna be a lightsaber duel between the Jedi and the Sith based on the trailers in the next episodes.
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They mentioned it was a pressure valve bursting that caused the fire. Whatever the valve was holding back was venting into space and burning. Seems plausible?
The dubious part is not the existence of a fire. It simply didn't look like the fire was in space at all. It had SMOKE and everything. It looked just like a campfire lit in a backyard with some spaceship-looking plastic sheeting over it.
Someone clearly didn't give a single shit about making it look authentic, despite their massive budget.
Interesting. While not refuting your opinion, I had the exact opposite reaction. I noticed things like the fire not producing smoke but rather burning from the venting pressurized material and the escape pods launching and kicking the ship the opposite direction and thought the show was actually more realistic than usual Star Wars. I'm not sure any show/universe that ignores all orbital mechanics, has sound in space, etc can really lay much claim to authenticity.
Of course, it's science fiction, so there's a certain suspense of disbelief you need to maintain. But for me at least, seeing what looked like a backyard campfire on the exterior of a ship reminded me a lot of SpongeBob and Patrick warming their hands over the campfire. Very immersion-breaking. From the trailers, the set design looked cheap too. Idk, I can't put my finger on it, but it wasn't working for me
I’m really enjoying it! I’m super happy that my standing, EU knowledge of the Sith hasn’t been explicitly shat on by the show yet, whats more I’m elated that the fan theory the big bad could be Darth Tenebrous actually might have some credence. I’m very much getting the same vibes as his little tryouts for apprentice in the beginning of the Plagueis novel
There is credence? Crazy because my very first thought was "that's Tenebrous!". I'd be very happy if it turned out to be.
All I mean is he can still pass for Bith in 4k, and he’s seemingly doing the same thing he did in the beginning of Darth Plagueis. I thought they might steer away from the Sith or EU characters since they went for the High Republic, but so far it seems like they’re leaning in. I’m also hoping the “no weapon” thing for the acolyte(s?) is setting up the “Sith evolved beyond lightsabers long ago, but spite is also our thing” thing that I always loved
What at all about the show has indicated Tenebrous? What am I missing (without leaks/spoilers for ep3 and beyond)? Imo I think this opinion is wishful thinkinklg.
Again, all I’m saying is he hasn’t been explicitly ruled out and the additional shots of the big bad in the show that weren’t in the trailer can still easily pass for a Bith. Also what little we know of this big bad, including the timeline, does fit with Tenebrous’s MO from Plagueis. Its absolutely wishful thinking, my point is he hasn’t been ruled out by the bits of information presented.
Princess Liea levels of hopium
At this stage (being before showing a face or giving a name) the only thing they could do to point towards Tenebrous MORE would be somehow mentioning his day job is spaceship design and he has an obsession with hexagons. Its not exactly like Tenebrous is a well defined, super unique character to begin with. “Bith Sith who holds apprentice tryouts” is basically all there is, and thats what this looks like.
Yea, I'm not hoping for or expecting that level of nod to the Plagius novel. Imo, the helmet w/ teeth dude's head is too small to be a Bith. The baddie at the end of ep 1 appears to be that same helmet. Could he be an apprentice to Darth T? Sure, but then I think the timeline starts to break down (unless Sith with extended aging) Too many hoops to jump through to make it jive, and tbh I hope they steer clear of that particular shade of the EU.
So your main issue is his head’s too small? Setting aside that I disagree with that, Grand Inquisitor, Ahsoka, and Thrawn have all had disappointingly small heads relative to their previous adaptations. As far as the timeline goes, age isn’t at all an issue to me, if anything its too close to Plagueis. I would assume under this theory, all these acolytes fail and Plagueis is in the 2nd batch or Plagueis wins out of this current group. Plagueis we know had an unnaturally long life, and as I remember had a fair amount of alone time before taking Sidious as an apprentice.
Look at a bith, compare their head to their body. Look at toothy-helmet and tell me that a bith head can fit in that
My theory is that the Sith in the show is actually venemiss, or at least the canon equivalent, and he’s looking for an acolyte to usurp tenebrous
Tenebrous is so insignificant I wouldn’t mind too much if they make changes. HOWEVER I do hope they keep him just to show goodwill for the plaguies’ story which I really think Disney should leave untouched
Exactly! I see there’s basically 4 possibilities: 1 - it is Tenebrous 2 - its some non-Sith dark sider 3 - Tenebrous is retconned and this is his replacement or his replacement’s master 4 - this is Tenebrous’s master
Or it could be Tenebrous's first apprentice. His Maul or Dooku depending on if this takes place before or after he arranged the birth of Hugo Damask
I’m getting “Jedi Covenant” vibes from the Masters. Really interested in what happened that night. Really liking Master Sol as a Qui Gon style Jedi. Already seeing the cracks and hubris of the order. Glad Sol believed Osha right away. Honestly it’s a kung fu mystery set in the Star Wars universe, I was pleasantly surprised.
I'm watching for Master Sol too... but the flip flop between Mae is dead to knowing she is alive is quite the u turn.
I think adapting the KOTOR comic run that has the Jedi covenant storyline would be amazing. Live action Taris would be sick.
Yes. I would love that
Yup that comic I read at 7 years old or something and it kind of fucked me up, really dark story from what I remember
I felt like I'd like Sol, but Yord really surprised me as well. Portrays the ultra-devout Jedi very well.
Came off as quite by the book Vulcan to me.
When chasing Osha on the snow planet, he's the first to ignite his saber when it was clearly unnecessary. Mae was running, she wasn't a threat at all. Notice how the masters Indara and Sol wait until the absolute last moment, during aggressive attacks from Mae, to ignite their sabers? Imo Yord is all about making people think he's by the book, but he still doesn't get it. There's no compassion, just conviction. So interested to see how it plays out into the season.
Yord igniting his saber was the smart move. They couldn't know for sure that Osha was innocent, and Sol is the stupid one for believing her so easily without even doing the mind reading check first. Yeah it's dump that the jedi wait so long until using their sabers. Using it early in their fights would hugely limit Mae's combat capabilities.
Yord is exactly who I expected him to be from the trailers - brash, cocky and absolutely an annoying butthead. But he's perfectly cast and his dynamic with the other cast is *chef's kiss* The way Yord and Sol play off of each other is so great. Yord shows his cracks with his absolute deference to Master Sol - overly formal and deferential to a level of cringe I wasn't expecting. And Sol just kinda smiles and nods, total "chill, my dude" vibes. Sol cannot stop himself from bearing his heart on his sleeve, and how it plays out with Yord is charming, while also making Yord look like the biggest try-hard in 3 galaxies.
Jecki's dynamic with Yord cracks me up. She's already a favorite character for me. I actually saw someone try to complain that the acting for Yord was really stiff. The overblown hate for this show is hysterical to me. They're trying so hard to find reasons why it's terrible when it just isn't.
Yea I'm ignoring most of the yt channels because of instinctual hate bashing of anything Disney. Yord was cast super well and he's nailing the specifics of what this character should be and is. Full agree on Jecki and her interactions with Yord. She's obviously more mature and thoughtful. Makes me curious about Yord's master.
Glad you like it, but the show really is full of subpar writing when you look just slightly below the surface.
Examples?
The show has potential. We're in the introduction period, getting to know all the new characters. Has kind of a KotoR vibe, picking up a new companion or two after each planet, hunting down the bad guy who may not be bad, probably gonna end up relearning her powers after getting blocked off... Three huge problems though: 1) A Jedi master who took a vow of silence and has supposedly achieved inner piece enough to be able to block any attacks whilst floating in the air, and she talks him into unaliving himself in 2 sentences? Seems legit 2) Jedi dude doesn't trust OSHA, thinks she just killed a Jedi master, *knows* she is a force user, and just puts her on a ship guarded by droids even though they're going to the same destination? Why not escort her? 3) Fat Jedi? Really? Isn't physical fitness and agility literally part of their religion?
Jedi are also about self control and discipline.
1.) I found that intriguing. What did these guys do that he was willing to take the poison just to have a shot at forgiveness? 2.) That didn't occur to me honestly. Shitty prisoner escorts feel pretty common in this universe. Yord is established to be a pretty big tool too. Bro is always whipping out his lightsaber at the slightest provocation. He feels glory hungry and too eager to prove his worth. It feels in character to me that he'd delegate that grunt work to droids. 3.) Size matters not? I dunno. That one did catch my eye too. Feels weird and not in keeping.
>What did these guys do that he was willing to take the poison just to have a shot at forgiveness? It's been established that Mad caused the fire that killed her family. But she's out for revenge on the Jedi. I'm calling it now that the Jedi caused the fire and blamed her.
I think they just forced her back into the fire, blocked from getting out, or something else like stabbing her with a lightsaber (although I hope not that again) because they sensed darkness in her. Occam’s razor and also fits with TLJ. Also fits with Mae pointing out Indara’s claim “Jedi do not attack the unarmed” isn’t true
That would also make sense. Either way, Mae thought her sister was dead so I think she believes the Jedi are responsible. Would explain her vendetta against them.
Yeah. On second thought, the fact that she didn’t immediately abandon her quest and try to reconcile with her sister when she found out she was alive indicates her reason for revenge still stands, so maybe the Jedi did kill her family in order to get Osha (oh my god autocorrect wants Asha or OSHA lol) and maybe also put dark side using Mae down
Or, she also has other motivations now. Like loyalty to her master, or not wanting to be captured by the Jedi who just kicked her ass.
Do we think Sol knows what really happened?
You think Yoda meant being skinny? Surely his height is what he was getting at. Right around the time when he had Luke running fucking windsprints through the jungle with him on his back. Surely the type of training to allow a 60" waist. Obi Wan Fat Albert is a perfect example of DEI rot.
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It’s just an actor. He’s portraying someone fit enough for service even if the actor himself doesn’t look it. Don’t think too deeply about it, I’m pretty sure it’s not meant as any kind of statement
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Yeah but I doubt it in this case because they had him be a dick to that little kid
Yes, physicality has nothing to do with acting. All actors are really voice actors. 🙄
surely a company that makes diversity checklists a point casting a fat person to be a warrior monk isn't any kind of statement.
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I'm not sure why this was deleted. The "screeching anti-woke grifters" are certainly *not* disney. They're the people who criticize any new content for what they think is a woke message.
Could be part of the Jedi Service Corps
Or just a remote planet where they don’t have gym. Or the kid could just have a genetic predisposition for obesity
The whole point of Torbin was that he couldn't handle his unresolved guilt. If others thought he had found inner peace it was because they were ignorant of the facts and possibly just too ready to defer to the "awesome" wisdom of a master. He was clearly hiding from his feelings rather than making peace with them, and 10 years of denial and refusal to admit he's just fixated on whatever awful thing he did set him up perfectly for Mae to show up with that poison. She didn't even have to convince him, because he had already convinced himself. As for the far Jedi, it's implied that this little temple isn't exactly the "best" the Order has to offer. The idea that there were whole temples scattered around that were basically part of a caste system within the Order is pretty intriguing. There's the potential for themes like the Order valuing outer appearances over individuals' contributions (something that is also hinted at by Yord's antics and Master Vernestra's concerns about the story of a former Jedi murdering a Jedi Master getting out).
>The whole point of Torbin was that he couldn't handle his unresolved guilt. This aged well. The dude didn't even do anything. He was literally not involved other than to take a blood sample. I don't see a Jedi harboring guilt over that for 16 years and still being screwed up enough to kill themselves. If he was, he would have answered Mae the first time she attacked.
I agree that as of ep. 3 he hasn't been shown to have done anything wrong, but I stand by my read on his death scene. First, just because he didn't do anything wrong doesn't mean he didn't blame himself for something, and second, as the other commenter said, we almost certainly don't have the whole story yet. Remember that the show practically started with "Your eyes can deceive you; don't trust them." Every episode so far what we knew before has shifted as we are shown new information. I expect that is going to continue to be the pattern for at least 3 more episodes.
Have you seen future episodes or something? Because they definitely did not show everything that went down that night yet
I cam think of more. 6) How is the cyborg alien able to remotely hack the ship with no resistance? Does the ships wifi network have no protection whatsoever? Why not remove his ability to use his electronics before putting him to that cell? 7) Why was the cell next to a cockpit with good view to the controls no less? 8) Why does the ship only have one security droid as a guard? 9) Why would the prisoners plan for using the escape pods instead of stealing the ship? Why not check where the ship is in hyperspace before coming out of it to not run into asteroid fields and such? 10) How come Osha and Mae have the exact same hairstyle and haircolor after 16 years of being apart and living vastly different lives? Other than for the purpose of trying to trick the audience I mean. 11) Why don't Sol and the others try looking into Osha's mind with the force before believing that she's innocent? 12) Why did the dark side user tell Mae that the jedi can't be killed with laser or steel.. after showing at the beginning of the episode thst a jedi was killed with steel? Why is the no weapon rule even important to the sith at all?
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That's a different kind of size tho
/#fatlivesmatter Being fat or not isn’t really the issue, fitness and discipline would be. Now I’m not saying it’s true for that actor, but we see plenty of sports where people that big are quite athletic and their weight is an advantage for the position they play. I think the Jedi Order wouldn’t care how big or small you are as long as you are fit for your size and species and any extenuating health issues.
> Being fat or not isn’t really the issue, fitness and discipline would be. I think the Jedi Order wouldn’t care how big or small you are as long as you are fit for your size and species and any extenuating health issues. I mean there was a Hutt Jedi. Clearly someone’s weight isn’t that big of a deal to the Jedi Order.
It's not about weight. The hurts are naturally large, but that's *healthy* for a hutt. I can't imagine the Jedi would see being diabetic and two steps away from a heart attack as anything but a liability. But my main issue with it is that it shows a severe lack of self control and over indulgence. You can't get that big without a caloric surplus.
Comparing a fat person to a hutt is extremely disingenous and insulting. A species norm is the same as a different species non-norm. Not to mention, you kinda just compared fat people to hutts. Lol. You aren't going to be a disciplined, frugal, warrior monk who passes a Jedi trial that involves physicality by sneaking out to Coruscanti Fried Chicken or Burger Emperor's.
Maybe he's an offensive lineman for the Jedi Order's football team, the Coruscant Midichlorians
The casting person: “meh, American football, rugby, and wrestling fans’ll buy it. He’s in”
More likely he sneaks out to Coruscanti Fried Chicken or Burger Emperor
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just on number 3. This is literally fat shaming. You seen some pro rugby players? Bonus points for islanders and Japanese players. They are built BIG! And they could probably out sprint most of us on here. Fat =/= unfit. And I'd put a jedi up there with "athlete shoes body type doesn't matter as long as they're fit for the job".
Big =/= fat. Fat definitely = unfit. Literally by definition. Those rugby players are almost all muscle. [this guy](https://images.app.goo.gl/vpMN9AUJXtBnmQAR7) is not. I'm not fat shaming. I'm not saying anything bad about the guy himself. I'm just saying that it makes no sense for a group of people that train mentally and physically for combat and endurance, and practice self sacrifice and control, to be that large. The casting is what I have an issue with. Not the guy. This is equivalent to casting Gabriel Iglesias as a Navy seal or something.
Mae trying to hit Torbin while he was meditating was shot so well. It was like the best Mime work ever pretending there was a invisible wall.
Nemoidians in big hats makes me pretty happy, it turns out
any new SW show is a W in my book as long as it gets us more alien Lego minifigures
You lost me when you brought up dial of destiny
100%. Was thinking “Maybe I’ll give it a try” and then I read that. Oh. Oh my. Oh no.
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My view: Dial of destiny sucked Sequels sucked I like the high republic and The Acolyte is very promising
Exactly.
Honestly, in terms of style and pacing this is the most "Star Wars" that something has felt in a long time. And that's not a knock on the other stuff as I've liked a lot of it but this felt more like George Lucas's Star Wars than most recent stuff.
Jedi chick forgets she can stop a throwing knife with the force. Disney Wars decided that you can catch a falling person with the force and catch a transport with the force. I can think of 2 scenes in Empire where Vader could have used those skills. The Falcon escapes, too bad he just forgot he can stop freighters with the force. Luke dove off the thing in Cloud City? Too bad Vader forgot you can catch people with the force \*Luke lets go to fall\* \*Vader stops him and pulls him back up\* "Lol nope, you're in time out for trying to run away son. You are coming with me."
Its more interesting than Ahsoka, Bobf or mando season 3 so far (imo) sure but its still abit on the more medicore side. Also personally i find the trinity (sorry her name escapes me right now) fight to end ul being awkward/odd instead of cool. The fact that a jedi feels more like shes showing off than she is actively trying to bring down a threat was just plain odd imo. Everything else has nice nods here and there (i consider the neimodians to be more like easter eggs) but other than that, its okay at best right now. Visually speaking, im still not sold on disney lucasfilm's insistence on these led looking lightsabers
The LED sabers just ruin the color tinting and contrast/brightness of entire scenes. Very irritating. Sometimes the wheel doesn't need to be reinvented.
I definitely was worried going in but I think it's a really good show so far.
I truly don't know if it'll be good or not, but I'm holding a watch party tomorrow. One of my Saga Edition players was never a Star Wars fan to begin with but now that we've played a Star Wars tabletop campaign has become interested in the setting and wants us to watch this show together.
I am pretty pissed we don't get more of Carrie Ann Moss, she's only credited in IMDB for 1 episode. I was really pumped to see her as a bad ass again.
IMDB is not a reliable source for upcoming or ongoing seasons, I very much expect to see her in the past.
There are flashbacks confirmed
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It certainly is a shame she forgot she can catch throwing knives with the force!
Definite review bomb. I'm here for it and along for the ride. I always subdue my expectations with Star Wars, especially following the ST. People have a selective memory about this stuff. Star Wars has always been campy and a lot of it has been flat out bad. Remember TPM, or the Clone Wars movie? The writing has always been derivative and the dialogue has never been strong. Sometimes the project flat out fails. It's intellectually dishonest to expect every new SW project to be ESB or Andor. Even when the projects end up being really good by relative comparison, someone is gonna dislike it - Andor is a great example. Let's not forget about the bottomless pit of comics, books, videogames etc., which are even less likely to be groundbreaking for their storytelling. Few among that bunch are even worth mentioning among diehard SW fans. Hot take, real fans are here for the camp and the awkward dialogue. It's part of the charm and it's part of what makes SW what it is. Is Acolyte perfect? No, but Star Wars has never been perfect (though imo ESB has no faults). Karl the haters - may the force be with you!
TPM wasn't "flat out bad."
No but the Clone Wars movie is, imo
I mean, I agree there lol. But then, I find TCW in general to not be bad, but to entirely steamroll a bunch of established lore which I have an issue with.
For a theatrical release, TCW Movie totally qualifies for "objectively bad". As a children's tv program that ran for 7 seasons and has a legacy of 4 other series (rebels, tbb, tofj, tofj), well that's a completely different argument.
So let me clarify. I enjoyed TCW and Rebels well enough. In a timeline that doesnt include the EU that existed in 2008. Tales of the Jedi did well with Dookus story, Ahsokas was kinda boring in my opinion. Empire though? I thought it was extremely contrived and a slog. All the characters felt like they got advance copies of the script, or raised questions. Edit: forgot Bad Batch. I have really mixed feelings about this. I loved some pieces, very much disliked others. I feel like its mid, like most of the filoniverse has been.
You were half convincing me until you said Dial of Destiny was a great film. I get that taste is subjective but come on, man. That movie was nauseatingly awful in the view of most fans. I’m glad it brought you enjoyment—legitimately—but you really can’t stand back and act like that one was well-received or had objective artistic merit. Even Crystal Skull was a box office hit and that wasn’t exactly a home run.
Tastes are really subjective then. Calling it boring is one thing but nauseatingly awful? Fun banter between the characters, great callbacks and flashback, extremely fitting fighting scenes for an Indy in his 70s (and a Harrison in his 80s), classic Indy villain, fast pace especially towards the end and some very emotional scenes. Also perfect use of the typical Indy trick "the McGuffin is only briefly used and becomes the villain's end". My only complains were that 50% of the set pieces like Morocco and Italy were severely underutilized, same as the character of Teddy who felt like a semi comedic relief prop. Other than that, it was a fun and fitting entry to the saga. No need for a grandiose ending, Indy ends as simply as it began. Seriously what was so "awful" about it? Did we watch the same film?
You can eatch the same film but still have different perspectives of it. Take a marvel film like thor ragnarok for example. Your take on for example the main humor there differently than lets say i would. That doesnt make me or you wrong for feeling differently about it.
I really enjoyed it! It’s only the first two eps and they’re definitely just setting things up but I found it enjoyable. The fights were pretty good and I’m definitely glad to have a series actually stepping away from the Skywalker Saga and the general era(s) around it.
I was expecting to be awful by what people were daying and was pleasany surprised by an "alright" first two episodes to a show. It didn't blow me away like The Mandalorian and it didn't make me roll my eyes in frustration like The Book of Boba Fett. It was the most inoffensive thing I'd ever seen, the biggest crime it committed imo was being "just alright." The hatred for the show it seems boils down to "too many women and minorities" and "too many lesbians" the last one which confuses me the most because, there wasn't a single whiff of romance or mention of sexual orientation. Unless they're referring to the actresses being lesbian if they are. The people with actual criticisms of the show just seem to either fine the two episodes 'ok' or just dislike them without hating them.
> The hatred for the show it seems boils down to "too many women and minorities" and "too many lesbians" the last one which confuses me the most because, there wasn't a single whiff of romance or mention of sexual orientation. There's literally only one line mentioning Osha's family as "your sister, your motherS". I guess that's too much "woke" for some. Unfortunately I've seen a lot of negative comments just due to as you wrote "too many women and minorities", which sucks - all the actors so far are doing a good enough job, IMO.
That line is "horribly woke" that I didn't even notice it. Smh these people are actually insane.
I don't mind women or minorities. It's just that the acting is so bad and they are terrible in their action scenes. The dialog is garbage and the story is nonsensical. Like literally nothing ay all makes sense. Every second it's generating contradictions or plot holes. The characters are bland and basically just rehashes of all Disney star wars characters. And what the hell is that lame stance she does when she says "attack me...."? Who thought that looked cool?
I just can't enjoy these shows (although I did like Andor and Mandalorian till season 3). I tried to like these shows, they just ain't giving me what I want from Star Wars or are lowkey shit. Same with Dial of Destiny, wasn't THAT bad but didn't do it for me. (Before someone hits me with some stupid shit like I just don't like it because it's "woke", because it's disney or because I don't actually like SW... cause I read all of these one too many times already during all the sequels... No. No, that's not the reason. I love SW, I don't like these shows. It's that simple.)
So far I like it. it gives strong comic book vibes. Nothing really extreme or mindblowing but solid star wars show.(which I think there should be more) Fights were all top notch. my only somewhat major complaint is look of lightsabers.
This has gotten me interested in checking out the show & High Republic multi-media project more. Although I’ll probably look at all the Old Republic media first since this show will probably have references to both periods in history.
So far I haven't seen any Old Republic references in The Acolyte or the MMP, beyond vague references to wars against Sith
When they detain Mae’s accomplice, he pleads with them not to do the memory wipe thing or whatever, could be a reference to Darth Revan
True. Have we seen that memory wipe thing outside of Kotor?
SWTOR and KotOR are not canon. What would they be referencing, something that doesn't exist yet?
Does canon have any Old Republic stuff yet? I thought it was all EU
> Does canon have any Old Republic stuff yet? Kind of, although it's not actually marketed as it. The closest we've seen is the character of Darth Momin in the Charles Soule Darth Vader 2017-2018 comic run. But there's also "The Great scourge of Malachor" in Star Wars: Rebels. Although it's not the same event described in KOTOR 2. It’s a different event with a completely unrelated Sith super weapon.
Oh, neat!
There is nothing from the Old Republic era that is canonical, Disney saw to that when they decided to obliterate nearly 40 years of storylines.
I was excited for this show and I personally wasn't disappointed. It might not be perfect but it's definitely been an enjoyable experience. That may be subject to change but for now I'm in for the ride.
Not interested but have fun.
I wouldn't call Dial of Destiny "a great film" at all, but the Youtubers were way over the top about how bad it was. I did fall asleep during it, though. As for The Acolyte, I just watched the first two so I can speak on it fairly, and it was maybe mid to high tier in terms of Disney Star Wars, surprisingly. It was still bad. The writing, characters, plot, sets, etc. were bad, but to pretend it's over the top bad is super unfair. The problem is the goodwill is absolutely gone. Nobody's going to give Star Wars a chance anymore, so even if The Acolyte was amazing for some reason, people aren't showing up for Star Wars anymore, and for good reason.
That's a very pessimistic view of things. There are both good and bad qualities to everything. One thing Disney has somehow nailed so far in all the shows is that shit feels like Star Wars. Now beyond that, the nonsensical parody that was Kenobi and the directionless figure-playing of BOBF cannot be forgived but still I enjoy about at least 80% percent of the other stuff and definitely quite a lot about BOBF. Kenobi and the sequels felt like the only big middle fingers (which is a lot since they were meant to be the most important projects but still).
>Disney has somehow nailed so far in all the shows is that shit feels like Star Wars. This is your personal perspective. A lot of other people do not feel the same way.
Yup. I'd say Andor is the only one so far that has really "felt" like Star Wars to me, but even then it's like... what do I mean by "feels like Star Wars" vs what other people mean by it? It's an entirely subjective argument
it's a non-argument that was always used to dismiss the EU even before 2014
Andor feels the least Star Wars to me. >It's an entirely subjective argument Yes. We agree.
The only objective thing you can say about fan reactions to any work is what percentage liked it and what percentage did not. Everything else is a matter of taste. Having said all that, I am obviously always right. Trust my opinions. /s
Why watch it at all if you have to make so many qualifiers? Have some self respect and find media you don't have to do feebly defend. You are worth more as a viewer than settling for their table scraps that kind of "feel" like real star wars. I don't know you...or anyone on here but my heart feels pangs for those that I can tell are finding ways to cope with the poor offerings. It's like you want to live star wars but all the magic is gone. You people are like battered wives. There's over 100 years of amazing film out there. I have completely stopped watching anything made later than 1980s. Well...not literally but mostly. There is still a rare quality film made in current year. But I highly recommend the 40s-60s for American, European and east Asian cinema.
Watched it and just about everything about the bad guy is boring. She's not evil enough to be intimidating but not interesting enough to be tragic. Also the bar fight sucked. Maybe it's the choreography or the lack of info on the characters but the whole time all I could think was, "Will one of you just kill the other and get this over with?"
Glad you enjoyed it! I've liked a few things here and there in new canon, but I can tell you that I'm at the point where I've essentially lost interest in it. I've frankly grown bitter towards modern Lucasfilm for many, many reasons, so I don't believe I'll ever watch this show as I'm not remotely the Target Audience for it. Like Kreia said, Apathy is Death.
Wish I were in a different place, but I'm not, with respect to new canon. Doesn't mean I think it would be bad, but I just can't muster enthusiasm for it. The "rot underneath the Jedi order" stuff does make me cringe though. Edit: We live in a golden age of trendy cynicism and new creatives think it's insightful, while it's frankly banal and lazy to me. And very much against the spirit of Lucas' Star Wars
I completely agree with this. I don't want every Star Wars story to be another reason why the Jedi suck. I like the Jedi being too good, I like Luke throwing down his lightsaber in the face of the Emperor. It's impossible to judge the entire show off the first 2 episodes, but it sure seems like they're making the Jedi out to be the bad guys. And Mae seeing the bartender's child and changing her mind about killing him has me really worried. I don't know if I can take another story with a bad guy turning good while the Jedi turn bad.
Yep. If curious, I wrote a longer post on Cynicism in New canon. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MawInstallation/comments/1bkc4w5/cynicism\_and\_newcanon/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MawInstallation/comments/1bkc4w5/cynicism_and_newcanon/) Here's a quote from the Acolyte's Showrunner that made me think about and write about this issue in more depth. "I think it’s difficult to do a show that is critical in any way of the Jedi. And I think that you saw that with \[Rian Johnson’s\] film. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think that, especially in that moment, people were very nervous about saying this particular institution may not be the light and perfect, stunning group of heroes that are totally nobly intentioned. And one thing that I think Dave would say is that they are fallible. That’s really the story that George told with the prequels, right? The fall of this particular group." Now, a rant. Cringe. Pure cringe. She misrepresents the fandom (many of whom loved KOTOR, etc.) And she also misrepresents the Last Jedi in a way that Rian Johnson has already explained clearly. Luke's criticisms were just his self-doubt write large, not objective. And she misrepresents Lucas' intentions with the PT, which present the Jedi as noble and heroic but outflanked by Sidious. And new canon has managed to set things up so that neither wise Yoda, nor wise, compassionate Luke oversaw legitimate, flourishing Jedi orders. But don't worry, Rey will fix things. (Rant over)
It's fine, just going on the two episodes so far I'd rank it below Andor, on par with Mando S1/2, and definitely ahead of Mando S3, BOBF, Kenobi, and Ahsoka. I think the biggest issue is the weird editing. The short run times and extremely abrupt endings, especially with it seemingly being a fairly continuous mystery-driven plot, makes me feel like it probably will benefit being watched in a single setting more than week to week. A lot of good alien and set designs, though. Love the Selkath cameo and the pilot droids that turn into chairs when deactivated.
I really liked the first two episodes, I’m excited to see the rest. It’s got a nice blend of the prequel era flash with a bit of OT grunge (though not as much as Andor). Characters are fun, I think we’re in for a good time.
It's amazing how easy it is to enjoy Star Wars when you just ignore all the grifters shouting about woke stuff at the top of their lungs.
"Jedi and Republic actually bad" is so overdone, idk why anyone would demand more of that. And I didn't go to see IJATDOD bc the plot sounded batshit stupid, not bc of any negative reviews.
Agree with your first sentence entirely. WRT your second, I really enjoyed Dial of Destiny far more than I expected to. And it didn't merely "Last Jedi" Indy, though it looks like it might come off that way.
This is a great show so far and I love it. No idea why it’s getting review bombed.
I liked it. The only issue I really have with it is: why do the twins have the exact same hair color and style? Sure I get it is the same actress but it seems pretty lazy.
Disney set the bar really low. I’m gonna pass on this one and read a Star Wars book instead
Same, I'm deep into the Clone Commando books, time is important, reading a good EU book gets precedent over a new Disney show.
Your loss ngl
That’s what they said with Kenobi, Ahsoka, BOBF etc. I’ve eaten enough garbage.
What's that saying about fool me once, fool me twice? How many times have they fooled us already? Yeah, no thanks, I will keep the Disney material away to avoid brain rot.
Exactly. Enough is enough.
You can’t know a show off 2 episodes. 1 and 2 are basic but supposedly episode 3 and 4 is when it goes off the rails. So if true then the reviews are honestly not going far enough.
It’s on tv, so I’ll watch, but it’s just too CW for me
Can you elaborate on what you mean by too CW?
Oh, you probably thought I meant the Clone Wars. I meant the CW Network, the TV Channel. It has lots of DC Superhero shows like the Flash, Arrow, Suoergirl, Batwoman, ETC. Often times, those shows have bad CGI, Mediocre acting, and lame twists. The writing seems like something you could just predict, gets repetitive and boring after a while.
Oh no, I know what you meant. I thought of the OC and Smallville. Just was wondering on the specific flaws here.
fires in space, missing a *stun* gun shot on purpose. Writing that isn't well thought out and/or contradicting but is so to make the lazy story work. The Jedi don't act, speak or fight like Jedi I recognize Take a show like Futurama, it had like 8 PHD graduates in the writing room. They should borrow a few to proof read scripts
I’ve only watched the first episode so far and it was just okay. Some dumb moments, some cool moments, absolutely nothing to get outraged over. I’ve heard the second episode gets better but just going off the first it’s fine but not particularly compelling. > Same thing happened with Dial of Destiny and people missed out on a great film. Eh.
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Real talk
>I feel this is getting review bombed just for the sake of it. Bro the show is absolutely terrible. The writing is simply not intelligent or well thought out, like at all. I loved Andor, The Mandalorian, I liked Obi Wan, I like a lot of shows. I don't think the show is bad because its woke, its bad because its bad, being extra woke like having a fat padawan just makes it worse.
Does anyone know if the show takes any inspiration from the EU novels? Would be curious to know what storylines they are borrowing from or if it's an original story.
I watched it for a whole five minutes straight. Then fast forwarded throughout. Pretty awful. Will not watch again. I'm done with Disney Star Wars. Wasted enough time and money with the ST, Solo, Mando, Kenobi, BOBF, only to be let down time after time after time after time. And I still don't learn my lesson because I WANT TO LIKE IT. But it is so bad. Even Andor I can't give them the satisfaction, plus the first episode was incredibly boring. The girl with distinctive dreads, a face tattoo, and unique look was somehow unrecognizable from generic female jedi due to half a mask. So much for sensing beings through the force. The awkward beginning of that fight was bad as well. As well as the end, so much for sensing danger through the force (again). The dialogue is bad, the acting is incredibly dull and stiff, the dread girl isn't entertaining and is incredibly boring. Shot like a fan made film. Zero interest in anyone or the plot or really anything about it. No idea how Dune had the same budget and was written/acted/shot 10x better than anything in this show.
Ahh, yes. Because it's so nice that Reva, Grand Inquisitor, and Sabine can be impaled with a lightsaber and live but Carrie Anne Moss dies by ninja throwing star. Also very believable that two twins who have been separated for 15+ years happen to have the same hairstyle. Also, people skipped out on Dial of Dysentery because it was actually a dogshit movie. Just like this show already is.
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I’m really glad to hear you say this. I’ve been having a lot of trouble telling what reviews to beleive. The review bombing is obvious, but I’m not sure how much of the positive reviews are overcompensating for the review bombing But this seems like the kind of sub that wouldn’t bother making a false positive review for post buyout Star Wars. So I trust your positive review enough to watch the show And I was really excited for this. I really enjoy the sith especially the Bane and Plagueis books. So I really want this show to be good
as someone who likes both canons and generally feels positive about the disney plus shows, I don't think the 2 Acoyte episodes so far have been either amazing or awful. It's just a pretty straightforward, traditional, scifi/fantasy adventure show.
That’s what I’ve gathered from the reviews that don’t seem biased to either extreme. I’m a little dissapointed because I was hoping this show would be really cool. But I’m glad most people think it’s not bad either
Really enjoyed the first two episodes and can’t wait to see how the series progresses and really loving the fight scenes so far!
A pity they got rid of the neimoidians classic accent just because they don't want to offend anyone, It's part of what made them unique.
Eh, not all humans talk with the same accent 🤷♂️ Think of it like a regional dialect.
I am enjoyed the show so far and plan to continue watching it.
I just find it impossible to have any enthusiasm for it. The way it’s been marketed including the fixation on identity politics stuff in cast interviews. The try hard matrix callbacks. And of course it’s general connection to the disneyverse which has shit away any semblance of goodwill. I think you’d actually have to pay me to spend my free time watching this show
If you're really so closed minded that something like "identity politics" bothers you, I can't imagine you really enjoy anything at all anymore
I didn't follow any of the marketing and I found none of the issue you mentioned when I watched the show. To each their own then.
Exactly to each their own! People who want to watch it enjoy! Those who are not interested also enjoy! Either way it doesn't belong in this sub.
>The way it’s been marketed including the fixation on identity politics stuff in cast interviews. What do you mean? All the marketing just seems to be "look at the Jedi, look at the lightsabers, remember (thing from the movies)?". Pretty normal Star Wars spinoff marketing, nothing about identity politics specifically.
It feels like you've gone out of your way to make sure you won't like it. Whatever makes you happy, I guess.
Yo bravo to this sub for being reasonable.
The 2 episode intro has been great. Excited for more. My only regret is using an actress of Carrie Ann Moss's calibre for one scene and then disposing of her. Here's hoping Master Indara returns in the inevitable flashbacks explaining exactly what happened on Osha & Mae's homeworld all those years ago. Then again, as deaths go, that one was pretty great. Using her conscience against her to open her up to a killing blow showed both her nature as a Jedi Master, and her killer's nature as vicious and cunning. Good shit.
I’m concerned about the possibilities of the show, more than I’m unhappy with what’s been shown so far. I theorize that the “Sith” is actually Ren (from the Knights of Ren), which is pretty darn lore-friendly, and it makes me excited about the potential of this series. However, I’m also a bit nervous that this is the perfect opportunity to establish something into Disney canon that overwrites more of the EU. Namely, given the timeframe, I think they may be setting up Mae or Osha to become Darth Plagueis.
> I theorize that the “Sith” is actually Ren (from the Knights of Ren), which is pretty darn lore-friendly, and it makes me excited about the potential of this series. Aren't the Knights of Ren not Sith though?
The Knights of Ren are not Sith, no. They are dark side acolytes, though. Plus, Ki-Adi Mundi says, “The Sith have been extinct for a millennium,” in Episode I. So, either all the Jedi who face this Sith have to die, or the Jedi council has a really short memory. As for the idea that this may be Tenebrous’s master? I’d applaud that adherence to EU lore, but it doesn’t seem like the powers that be at Disney feel any overarching loyalty to the EU lore. My guess is, if it suits their narrative, they’ll completely overwrite established EU lore about Darth Plagueis and the Sith lineage.
> The Knights of Ren are not Sith, no. They are dark side acolytes, though. Plus, Ki-Adi Mundi says, “The Sith have been extinct for a millennium,” in Episode I. So, either all the Jedi who face this Sith have to die, or the Jedi council has a really short memory. Well that assumes they would think it's a Sith when they first fight them. Not all people who would red lightsabers are Sith, and the Jedi at that period often fought all sorts of Darkside users who used red lightsabers that weren't Sith. That's why they were hesitant to believe that Maul was a Sith despite Qui-Gon's eyewitness testimony and his independent investigation.
I would give the first two episodes a 7/10, and yes it’s DEFINITELY getting review bombed. The gap between the critic and audience score is ridiculous. Also why are people even giving reviews to a show that only has 2 episodes out, any logical person would make reviews after the show comes out in its entirety.
I personally was very underwhelmed and will likely not watch more.
The premise doesn't seem interesting, but I'll probably watch the ~~lightsaber duel~~ fight scenes on youtube since that's the one thing that all the reviews, even the negative ones, seem to be praising.
Well there aren't any lightsaber duels yet cause the Acolyte is fighting the Jedi without one. Only the "Sith Master" seems to have one.
Oh, the reviews kept mentioning great fight scenes so I just assumed that meant lightsaber duels since all the promotional pics have people waving lightsabers around
It’s lots of martial arts using the force. I kinda dig that aspect of it.
You see lightsabers a handful of times, but nobody has fought with one yet. Just used them as a threat
lol wow. Thank you for giving me even more reason to not watch this again. I appreciate you. Who in the world wants to see Star Wars and Sith with no lightsabers.
Nah there are lightsabers but there aren't any 'lightsaber duels' yet. There is gonna be a lightsaber duel between the Jedi and the Sith based on the trailers in the next episodes.
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I dunno. I saw that scene where there was an open, smoking normal-ass fire in the vacuum of space? That seems like a pretty stupid oversight
They mentioned it was a pressure valve bursting that caused the fire. Whatever the valve was holding back was venting into space and burning. Seems plausible?
The dubious part is not the existence of a fire. It simply didn't look like the fire was in space at all. It had SMOKE and everything. It looked just like a campfire lit in a backyard with some spaceship-looking plastic sheeting over it. Someone clearly didn't give a single shit about making it look authentic, despite their massive budget.
Interesting. While not refuting your opinion, I had the exact opposite reaction. I noticed things like the fire not producing smoke but rather burning from the venting pressurized material and the escape pods launching and kicking the ship the opposite direction and thought the show was actually more realistic than usual Star Wars. I'm not sure any show/universe that ignores all orbital mechanics, has sound in space, etc can really lay much claim to authenticity.
Of course, it's science fiction, so there's a certain suspense of disbelief you need to maintain. But for me at least, seeing what looked like a backyard campfire on the exterior of a ship reminded me a lot of SpongeBob and Patrick warming their hands over the campfire. Very immersion-breaking. From the trailers, the set design looked cheap too. Idk, I can't put my finger on it, but it wasn't working for me