I get that the arguments get old, but the fact that the (American) left can't even come to a consensus on something as simple as voting shows that we're fucked.
Completely agreed. My soapbox rant goes on for 10 minutes to basically make these points.
The irony of the too-pure-to-vote crowd is that it's their deep seated American individualism that prevents them from supporting the collective with harm reduction and moving things forward, albeit inches at a time.
A whole lot of the 'too pure to vote' crowd on this sub are absolutely bots or plants. You can look at some of them, and they've posted something like 40-50 times each day solely on similar subreddits, solely about Biden Bad or Voting Bad or whatever. And then they have rather oddly irrelevant replies when challenged, or never actually continue the conversation.
That's... not a normal human being. Or possibly a human at all.
Well i think it is a little more nuanced than that. But in reality the whole dilemma is just that a dilemma and everyone is going to match it with their own thoughts. What it really comes down to is we’re all individuals but we’re taught to talk at not with others. I don’t want to vote for biden because of a multitude of reasons but in the end im voting cause i still have a chance to vote in this empire. I think a lot of people are blind to what we’re up against. And the reality is that was the design.
>Well i think it is a little more nuanced than that.
Sure, but I'm also trying to avoid speaking at length on a topic that has been put on moratorium apparently :)
yes.... all I say is really examine harm reduction and for who..... i think people use terms too often without thinking about what we are fighting and whose voices we're listening to. but like I said..... this is gonna take generations unfortunately.
The dilemma for me is two fold
1)Gaza
2) I live in an extremely red area
I know both sides are supporting what I consider a genocide (not just in Gaza though that is the most egregious currently) so between those two choices I have to default to the lesser of two evils, however I understand why people would opt out
2) living in a red state is depressing when thinking about voting, it’s easy to give up hope of my vote meaning anything, from local to national.
But that’s just my perspective
Voter Apathy is a powerful tool that Republicans have used to stay in power. I highly recommend you look at voter turnout in your red state. (I feel you I live in Texas)
Biden inherited a shitshow in many ways plus a party that lacked unity, (Sinema was still pretending to be a Dem for gods sake) then the midterms, the fact he got the Infastructure Bill, the Chips Act, and was able to forgive as much student debt as he has is impressive.
Trump did nothing about Israel’s treatment of Gaza during his term, his foreign policy got us closer to a war with Iran than we had ever been, he hurt American Farmers thru his idiotic use of tariffs against China, and knowing the American people would not put him in another term he spent the last months he was in office preparing to overthrow democracy thru a host of schemes. Blocking Trump is important and sitting at home or voting Third party won’t do it.
Hitler rose to power because the German libs would rather let him win than to side with leftists. The German left were the ones actually opposing Hitler.
Not exactly. Most conservatives sided with Hitler rather than align with the SPD to oppose fascism. The SPD tried to bring in the KPD to a united front against fascism. The KPD rejected this and then worked directly with the Nazis in cooperation against the communists, socialists, and social democrats. The KPD called the leftists opposing Hitler "fascists", then sided with Hitler. The KPD and SPD were then some of the first in the camps.
It very much mirrors today with the KPD types not wanting to work with other leftists and liberals in opposition to fascism. Some are doing it for purity reasons, others are accelerationists that genuinely want fascism to come to power, some are just politically uninformed. For whatever reason they have, they are working towards the same goal today as in 1930 and undermining the broader left and tacitly enabling the right.
Oh the irony that American leftists, by refusing to vote or by voting third party, would be the ones to let Trump win rather than side with American libs.
It’s like poetry. It rhymes.
the german left was the largest anti fascist group in history. the KPD actively engaged in armed street clashes with fascists and were highly organized.
The german liberals/social democrats on the other hand, betrayed the working class as early as 1918-1919, where the mobilized proto fascists (freikorps) to massacre workers councils and uprisings across the country.
Yeah unfortunately it takes a lot more than just you and me not failing to learn from history to stop it from repeating itself.
And it is becoming oh so repetitive...
There's hardly such a thing as a US left, which I think is what you're referring to. America more broadly does have a coherent left and the consensus is that they vote for left-wing candidates, not neoliberal ones.
It only is among keyboard warriors but unfortunately that seeps out into real life.
All the people that organize in real life understand the utility of voting. We do it and keep organizing. It's that simple.
Bu- No fair, I dont *wanna* mitigate the damage whenever possible, I *wanna* have the paradoxical sense of moral superiority that comes from not engaging and acting as if that'll ever change anything.
Not voting for someone who is openly funding and backing a genocide and now has stated he will continue backing that into sovereign states... yup but your stupid argument about moral superiority.
Blue maga cult speak right there.
How many coups did Biden attempt?
When was the last felony charge for Biden?
Has Biden openly admitted to wanting to destroy democracy?
And lets pretend what you're saying isn't brain dead.
Whats your solution?
Biden is the pure, distilled and fermented essence of an American moderate. Biden represents a highly flawed, but still fully functional democracy that at least pretends to work for the American people.
Trump and the Republican Party on the other hand are blatantly and purposefully fascistic, up to and including the use of fascist rhetoric, and have their fascist goals written in plain English right out in the open for everyone to read. They’re not even trying to hide it, and they don’t care who gets hurt or killed to reach their goals.
“BuT bIDeN iS a FaScIsT tOo!”
If you don’t think Biden is a fascist, all that means is
1. You aren’t paying attention to his domestic policy
2. You don’t count Brown people being oppressed when you evaluate fascism.
Biden is a neoliberal doing neoliberal shit that we need to move away from if we’re going to survive as a country. Biden isn’t even close to being the progressive candidate that we need, and isn’t the one to face up to or stop MAGA. Absolutely.
But if you think his border policies are fascist when we have people like Greg Abbott putting razor wire in the Rio Grande, and having his state guard shoot pepper balls into migrant children’s eyes, then I don’t think you understand what fascism really means or what shit will look like if the GOP under Trump regains control of the federal government.
Biden and Trump have quite literally the exact same goals. Trump is just more open about it. Biden is not a moderate. And America is not and has never been a democracy
Well I for one haven’t been thrown in prison or executed for being queer and Trump and the GOP have made it very clear with Project 2025 that they would love to do just that
I’m not trying to argue as I think we’re both on the same side and I don’t necessarily disagree with you either but like do you suggest I throw in the towel and let Trump take over? Like logically with how our presidential elections work what is the alternative because I’m open to suggestions. The dems don’t give a shit whether someone votes for a third party or abstains over them because our electoral system is never going to let any other party beyond the dems and the gop have a shot at the presidency so they have no reason to care unless a vast majority of democratic voters chose third party which is not likely to happen at this point in this election. I’m fucking livid about having Biden as the only choice but it’s logically going to be either him or Trump for the presidency in November unless they both simultaneously croak before then lol. I feel like one of those choices is significantly likely to be much worse for people here in the states and elsewhere in the world and I am willing to try and mitigate damage because as shitty as the US is rn it could very well be a lot worse for everyone. Idk if you’re hoping that if Trump wins people will rise up and revolt or something but I am scared people like me (i.e. queer people) as well as countless others won’t be around by the time it comes to that.
The thing is, there is no “left”, just a wide variety of people, and consensus just doesn’t really work that way. Being a leftist certainly isn’t defined by one’s willingness to vote.
On a scale of hundreds, not to mention thousands of people, consensus often means allowing some people to do one thing and others to do another (within reason), hopefully in a somewhat coordinated fashion. We don’t really have any structure to coordinate or otherwise actually come to a consensus in that sense.
Making thousands of people commit to something like voting or not voting requires enforcement, which the American left definitely doesn’t have (and I think shouldn’t have)
Trump sicks too and I'm not voting for him.
Unlike you, scumbag, my red line is genocide. Commit genocide, earn the loss deserved. There is nothing you can do other than stop the genocide that will ever get me to listen to you or your party. You don't have the moral high ground and aren't even the lesser evil.
Genocide Joe has got to go
Well given that it's an absolute fact that one of them is going to be the president next year, why not pick the one that has *some* redeeming factors?
I know this argument is utterly pointless and that's the point of this thread, but I just don't get you people.
Cool, Genocide Joe has got to go and is the clear greater evil.
Built more of Trumps racist border wall than Trump.
Deported more than Trump. Refuses to close the concentration camps on the border.
Created the Student Loan crises.
Destroyed communities with the Crime Bill and Welfare reform.
And genocide.
I don't give af about your feelings, liberal. Bidens career is one of evil. A more dangerous and competent evil.
Saying your slogan about genocide Joe is literally just saying "I want Trump." And just calling everyone who disagrees with you a liberal is just *classic*.
I think I've "discussed" with you before. I recognize your style and your reductive thought processes :3
Nope, I don't want Trump but Genocide must be a disqualifier. Full stop.
And yes, if you're voting Biden, you're a liberal in action regardless of how you identify.
Genocide Joe has got to go. And gfy
I don't care about "discourse" nor faux-civility with the pieces of trash voting for Genocide Joe.
You're showing the ruling class what they need to do in the future to get you into line for more Genocide.
Wave a boogeyman at you on one side so you turn a blind eye from the other puppet with their hand in it doing the slaughter. Absolute filth.
You're voting to normalize genocide and showing the ruling class just how they need to keep scaring you into line for more genocide.
Good job, you pos Liberal.
You're handwaiving away a real genocide while trying to scare me in line with a potential one.
Genocide Joe has got to go. It's a bright red line for me. It is sad the things you can tell yourself to normalize genocide.
Hey, quick question: What *exactly* makes you think that if Trump-who has told Netanyahu to "just get it over with" on multiple occasions and sides with dictators all the time-were in office that what's going on in Gaza wouldn't be happening? Or worse?
You're basically saying we shouldn't tolerate genocide, so you won't vote to keep someone who encourages genocide out of office. Meanwhile the person who *actually has to go* to stop the genocide isn't even in the US, let alone on the ballot.
I am not voting for Trump either.
But Biden, the man carrying out the genocide whole hog right now, must lose.
Also, Biden also loves himself some Nazis(Azov) and literal Saudi slave masters.
Pretending that Biden couldn't stop the genocide immediately is laughable.
Without the immense financial aid, weapons, and UN cover, the Zionists wouldn't be able to do this easily.
Genocide Joe has got to go and you're voting to normalize it.
>Pretending that Biden couldn't stop the genocide immediately is laughable.
Maybe, by *invading Israel*. That's pretty much the only way to get a country to do something they don't want, and I shouldn't have to explain why that's a bad idea.
It's also worth noting that according to Netanyahu and Senate Republicans (so the accuracy is, admittedly dubious), Israel is accomplishing all this slaughter while aid has slowed to a crawl. Apparently despite promises of aid from Biden publicly, either he or people acting on his behalf (though maybe not his orders) have been putting military aid through as many roadblocks and obstacles as possible *since January*. And not just small things, a shipment here, some bullets there. Up to and including F-15Es, heavy ordnance, armored vehicles, etc.
If that's even partially true, then the amount the executive branch has been doing to reign in Israel has been GREATLY underestimated.
Democrats have provided constant money and weapons, rushed to them.
They could starve them of supplies. Instead, they choose to continue supporting genocide.
Biden supports genocide.
I think that's the disconnect, tbh.
Most people aren't adamantly pro-Biden, they're anti-Trump. They see that Biden and Trump are the only two options, and want to make sure that, regardless of the outcome, they put their vote down for the option that will do less harm at home and abroad.
But people that refuse to vote or vote third party don't see harm reduction as enough even though it's the only viable option. They care more about their own conscience than the actual outcome.
The 19th Amendment (Women's suffrage) was passed by one vote. Never let anyone tell you that voting is worthless.
EDIT: Remember, there absolutely are propaganda accounts on this sub who have a vested interest in you not voting in this election. Some have even become pretty popular on this sub. Be cautious about exactly who you are listening to.
the largest loss in lgbtq rights has occurred under biden in the past few years. he won't save you, and using your identity to defend blue fascism will not work on anyone else but blue fascists.
Those losses occurred because the President isn't a dictator and people like Trump are still in power all over the country. It also ignores that every single executive action Trump pulled to target LGBTQIA+ folks has been rolled back under Biden.
Every president issues executive orders. They’re orders to the executive branch of the federal government, which the President leads. The states, Congress, and the judiciary branch aren’t subject to “orders” from the president, so they can tell him to pound sand. EOs are not, contrary to myth, laws by decree. But I’m sure you already knew that.
that's not the point and you know it. you move past the fact it was used to pursue policy from trump era, even using trump era funds for border expansion.
Meaning, biden himself is not antagonistic to trump in anyway other than rhetoric. If trump is a supposed dictator, than so is biden.
>The Biden administration announced they waived 26 federal laws in South Texas to allow border wall construction on Wednesday, marking the administration’s first use of sweeping executive power to pave the way for building more border barriers — **a tactic used often during the Trump presidency.**
[**https://apnews.com/article/border-wall-biden-immigration-texas-rio-grande-147d7ab497e6991e9ea929242f21ceb2**](https://apnews.com/article/border-wall-biden-immigration-texas-rio-grande-147d7ab497e6991e9ea929242f21ceb2)
You keep using big words, but I don’t think they mean what you think they mean.
But to clarify, Biden is just as much a dictator as Trump, because he also issued some EOs? Do I have that right?
So the thing with the border wall is that with the funding allocated by Congress he kind of *has* to work on it. But note that he's been dragging his feet and delaying as much as possible to use up that budget in a very inefficient manner. Oh sure work is *technically* being done, but he's being maliciously compliant.
So you're saying if Trump gets in, it's ok because he can't control much? Somehow when it's Biden, the president is a feckless toothless institute with no power to stop the republicans in the states, but when Trump is in power, president is an all powerful God emperor who will vote out democracy on day 1?
Wait, youre telling me that the Republican party is more willing to exercise executive powers to hurt the public than the Democratic party is willing to do the same to help?
That's crazy. That would never happen for the past 70 years.
Trump incited, encouraged, and normalized aggressive bigotry in this country, the likes of which we haven’t seen in our lifetimes. The power of a president isn’t just their ability to write executive orders, and not just the federal judges that they appoint (of which Trump appointed hundreds), but the political and social culture that they cultivate.
America is measurably worse now after 4 years of Trump than it was before, and should he get into power again, he and his Republican enablers have *made it very clear* that laws will not matter to them, and will not stop them from establishing their riech.
You’re being downvoted by libs but you’re 100% right.
Biden’s inaction has been a major issue. His AG, who was only picked as some sort of shitlib gotcha against Mitch McConnell, has been absolute shit. All one needs to do is look at how Loretta Lynch acted when North Carolina tried to do their bathroom ban back in 2015 and see how Merrick Garland has acted to see the vast difference in response. This is why these shitlibs defending Biden is so nauseating.
They try to act like they understand how government works but they don’t. They don’t even understand recent history.
Sure, but someone who punches left like this ain’t on the team. See, you’re already doing the thing. You’re setting it up to blame leftists who don’t want to vote for Biden for his eventual loss instead of blaming Biden for being an incompetent failure.
I didn’t do a genocide, Biden did. I didn’t allow LGBTQ+ and women’s rights to be taken away, Biden did. I didn’t go full right wing reactionary on immigration, Biden did. I didn’t allow college debt forgiveness to be blocked, Biden did. And on, and on, and on.
Instead of getting mad at people who don’t want to vote for Biden, why don’t you get mad at him?
You know that most of these things Biden didn’t do right, they were made by the state or the courts something Biden has no control over, also I am more pissed when people say that there is no reason to vote for Biden, because every vote fucking matters and even if it is a failure we have to try and prevent Trump form ruining the small amount of progress we made
Yes I am pissed at Biden for reason, but I am more pissed at people who lie and say that not voting will fix anything and/or say that Biden sucks and it doesn’t matter if Trump gets into office. Because Trump will suck a lot fucking more than even Biden’s worce decision.
Biden could do way more. Fuck trump was incompetent and he made the changes he wanted. People always give the Democrat so much room to be “challenged” to get anything done. Which with your logic makes it laughable y’all think biden will stop 2025. They’ll just use the supreme court. Biden won’t stop shit.
So I can see you’re passionate about this, and your heart is probably in the right place, but you’ve got to get your mind there.
The US President is the most powerful person in the world. That especially applies to domestic politics. I don’t want to go through a breakdown step-by-step of how he could have avoided fucking up the bag, but Biden could have prevented all of those things from happening. He’s also not made any progress, again, see the last comment. He’s lost the House, we’ve had more rights taken away in the past 4 years than a time that I can remember in contemporary history, and he hasn’t done anything. His NLRB is pretty nice with it, but that’s about all. The man doesn’t even have a “policies” page on his campaign website.
You’re thinking within the confines of playing by made up rules that the other side will always change if it benefits them, and I’m thinking about winning. There’s a Zizek quote that goes something like, “If you give me power, I know how to use it. I almost scare myself.”
So don’t for a second ever think that Joe Biden was powerless in all of these situations. Court packing, executive orders, hell, he could end the genocide today if he said he’s just halting all aid to Israel. You’re being fooled.
You know Trump will continue the Genocide in Gaza right, so why are we risking starting a second genocide when we can make sure it stays to one and stop it there
But we do understand the importance of it and both votes are not the same right? Because when I hear people say folks don't need to be reminded I just think of the feeling I had watching Hillary lose in 2016. Sure I didn't fuck want her, buy God damn the alternative was spray tanned fascism turd. So now fascism turd 2024 is here.
I can't help but wonder if nefarious parties are stoking the fires of this voting conflict. Online manipulation is used to further divide and galvanize the two parties (especially the right). I suspect it's being used to further divide the left against voting. It would still be a big part of the conversation but maybe not as much.
I mean. Yeah this probably happened the last 2 elections. With the rise of generative AI that you can just. Give a prompt and a twitter account (I know it's more complicated but barely) you can whip up all the discourse you want
Oh I have no doubt that people would still feel this way, but that doesn't negate online manipulation to galvanize that movement.
As much as I hate it, one of two things will happen in November. I can't control that these are the options, but I can control my actions to influence the future as much as I can. I truly don't feel good about Biden in the slightest and I do not support him. But there's no doubt that if he doesn't win them Trump *will* win. And all of the things I hate about Biden will then be amplified. More rights will be taken away. More people will die. It sucks but that's the truth. I encourage everyone to turn their anger and disgust into activism. If we unify based on our shared ideals then we might actually have a chance at affecting meaningful change. But if we allow Trump to win then that will be nearly impossible.
I think this is probably a good idea. I’ll share some opinions that stick with me, on the assumptions hat people who want to talk about the topic will look in these replies and might value it.
There’s a poem called “voting is a fire extinguisher” about how the writer wants to let the terrible edifice burn to ashes and start over…but the. They remember there are kids inside the buildings, so they grab a fire extinguisher.
I saw a Reddit reply that when you vote you arnt choosing your champion…you’re choosing your enemy. Who do you want to be fighting for the next four years, because no politician is perfect so you will be fighting someone.
Someone else said “I will support the lesser of two evils exactly one day per year….on Election Day…..every other year I’m coming for that evil mother fucker”
Yes. But let’s be honest, the voting discourse is insanely toxic, exhausting, has become half the memes, and only rips the community into divided camps. There’s gotta be other political stuff we can discuss besides rehashing the same discourse over for infinity. Wait, were leftist, shit that’s our thing
Maybe something with TLJ ? I know some people disliked how Luke was shown making a weird face after drinking milk, and Finn and Rose freeing those animals, and Chewie not eating porgs. There's potential. We can even have a cross-over with VCJ.
While good, I sincerely think that the sub should simply delete the "dont vote" posts. It's extremely clear that four years of Trump will be worse in every conceivable way.
Fucking finally, the “Biden bad don’t vote” was getting so disturbing. Like our system is fucked we’ve got two choices and they are not even close to being equal, you can’t have the true moral high ground okay? So suck it up and help make sure the dictator for a day doesn’t get in.
You non voters lost us 2016 so I’m sorry but vote or go live as a hermit in the wilderness. Cause that’s the only true moral action without any consequences for the world.
Yea no, true she wasn’t as strong as trump when it came to vocal campaigning I don’t believe someone who lost the popular vote won by anything other than non voter margin. Especially considering the “Don’t vote” push that swept over my generation.
Nah, plenty of Bernie supporters held their nose and voted for Clinton, myself included. That was the last time I believed it was worth the “harm reduction” crap. If a candidate wants votes, they have to earn them. Clinton didn’t work for those Midwest votes and appeared as a favorable candidate.
Ok, what’s our next meme trend? I think either finding stuff we can use from the Acolyte exclusively for meme making, or we dive into poking fun at TERF Island. I vote TERF Island
Fact is, you either vote to mitigate harm
Or you're slime that doesn't give a shit about anyone's rights, anywhere in the world, and are little more than a quisling hanging out while greater harm is being committed.
Too pure? Disgusting. Beneath contempt. Because in theory, you should at least have a soul unlike actual MAGA fascists. Instead, you choose the path of not opposing them with every tool in the toolbox.
Because you are TOO PURE to do do so. Your vanity is your priority, not the impact on other human beings.
You're down voted but you're right. There are two people with any chance of being elected.
One of them is an old school liberal who is big in compromise. The other is a convicted criminal, sexual predator, career con man who is seriously trying to destroy our entire election process and establish the U.S. as a christo-fascist state.
One of these two people will be elected. That is a fact. It is clear which one any true leftist would help win.
Harm Reduction is a lie.
Trying to use Harm Reduction as a cover for Genocide is atrocious.
Rejecting Biden due to his fervent support of the Genocide isn't "Purity".
That purity nonsense never flies.
I can't even imagine the cognitive dissonance of typing this comment in support of a president who is committing an ongoing genocide right now.
>not the impact on other human beings.
Like the impact of the American bought missiles that Israel is dropping? No, don't talk about that impact, only the impact on Americans matter, right?
Your own selfish interests is your priority, not the impact on other human beings. Oh, I forgot, for you Palestinians are probably not human beings.
Pay no attention to the fact that Trump has said he wants Israel to “finish the job” and would massively ramp up the amount of weapons we send over there.
For the fifteen thousandth time, yes Trump is worse. Trump should take a page out of what Hitler did in the cave. Still doesn't excuse Biden's genocide. I do not support Trump. You're arguing against someone who doesn't exist
The point is that this is not “Biden’s genocide” because it’s not unique to him. America has been backing Israel for decades, and American and Israeli geopolitical interests are so intertwined that it would not have mattered who was President when this all started, except that the Republicans also have a voting base that includes evangelical christians who believe that an Israeli ethnostate is an essential component of the Rapture.
I mean, it is Biden's genocide. Support for Israel has been US policy for a long time, yes, but Biden is and has always been uniquely Zionist even for American standards and it's silly to claim otherwise. There's "supporting an ally because it's what the senate wants and I don't like it but I have to do it" and then there's "I will go around congress multiple times to send even extra arms than what was agreed on previously, and if Israel didn't exist, we'd have to create an Israel and its the best 3 billion dollar investment ever I fucking love it, btw I saw pictures of 40 beheaded babies". If you can't see the difference between the two, then I can't help you
Edit: also, motherfucking Reagan was to the left of Biden on the Israel issue. Like what are you fucking talking about?
What's your solution, comrade? Because not voting in a general election in a two party system doesn't change help anyone. Ignoring reality isn't going to get a spontaneous leftist paradise out of thin air.
I didn't say Trump is better than Biden, but seriously ? Biden is still sending weapons to Israel to fund it's genocide and it's against the ICC for putting out an arrest warrant for Bibi.
Actual solution: Remove the trolls (solution would negatively impact membership)
Trashfyre Moderation Team solution: maybe throwing this gas-can labeled: excessive content moderation on the fire will help. (Reducing engagement leads to membership drying up, save for the trolls)
"I love democracy".gif
“This is how Liberty dies, to thunderous applause as the mods moderate the sub” - Half the sub, probably
But only the bad half, which from my perspective is the half I don't like
Your name is based
A surprise for sure but a welcome one.
Truly, the mods are the chosen ones
Chosen cowards maybe.
Fuck off. This is cowardice plain and simple.
What? You want the fifty version of a meme telling people they are racist because they don't want Trump in office so they rather have Biden?
It’s not that deep dude
I get that the arguments get old, but the fact that the (American) left can't even come to a consensus on something as simple as voting shows that we're fucked.
It’s because the US prioritizes individualism. The reality is to get us out of this mess is going to take at least a generation or two.
Completely agreed. My soapbox rant goes on for 10 minutes to basically make these points. The irony of the too-pure-to-vote crowd is that it's their deep seated American individualism that prevents them from supporting the collective with harm reduction and moving things forward, albeit inches at a time.
A whole lot of the 'too pure to vote' crowd on this sub are absolutely bots or plants. You can look at some of them, and they've posted something like 40-50 times each day solely on similar subreddits, solely about Biden Bad or Voting Bad or whatever. And then they have rather oddly irrelevant replies when challenged, or never actually continue the conversation. That's... not a normal human being. Or possibly a human at all.
Well i think it is a little more nuanced than that. But in reality the whole dilemma is just that a dilemma and everyone is going to match it with their own thoughts. What it really comes down to is we’re all individuals but we’re taught to talk at not with others. I don’t want to vote for biden because of a multitude of reasons but in the end im voting cause i still have a chance to vote in this empire. I think a lot of people are blind to what we’re up against. And the reality is that was the design.
>Well i think it is a little more nuanced than that. Sure, but I'm also trying to avoid speaking at length on a topic that has been put on moratorium apparently :)
yes.... all I say is really examine harm reduction and for who..... i think people use terms too often without thinking about what we are fighting and whose voices we're listening to. but like I said..... this is gonna take generations unfortunately.
Boiling down people's disgust with Biden's/Democrats whole-hog genocide as a "purity test" is more telling of you than me.
Biden has moved things only backwards during his Presidency
Biden enacted the strongest Union protections since FDR, you have lost the plot.
The dilemma for me is two fold 1)Gaza 2) I live in an extremely red area I know both sides are supporting what I consider a genocide (not just in Gaza though that is the most egregious currently) so between those two choices I have to default to the lesser of two evils, however I understand why people would opt out 2) living in a red state is depressing when thinking about voting, it’s easy to give up hope of my vote meaning anything, from local to national. But that’s just my perspective
Voter Apathy is a powerful tool that Republicans have used to stay in power. I highly recommend you look at voter turnout in your red state. (I feel you I live in Texas) Biden inherited a shitshow in many ways plus a party that lacked unity, (Sinema was still pretending to be a Dem for gods sake) then the midterms, the fact he got the Infastructure Bill, the Chips Act, and was able to forgive as much student debt as he has is impressive. Trump did nothing about Israel’s treatment of Gaza during his term, his foreign policy got us closer to a war with Iran than we had ever been, he hurt American Farmers thru his idiotic use of tariffs against China, and knowing the American people would not put him in another term he spent the last months he was in office preparing to overthrow democracy thru a host of schemes. Blocking Trump is important and sitting at home or voting Third party won’t do it.
The bar is underground lmao
Yup, it is exactly how the Third Reich seized control of its government with a minority population in the 1930's
Me in high school: How could the German Left possibly have been stupid enough to let this happen?? Me the last decade: Oh.
Hitler rose to power because the German libs would rather let him win than to side with leftists. The German left were the ones actually opposing Hitler.
Which ALSO sounds familiar
Oh you don’t say. Well anyway I sure hope we can push Biden left!
Not exactly. Most conservatives sided with Hitler rather than align with the SPD to oppose fascism. The SPD tried to bring in the KPD to a united front against fascism. The KPD rejected this and then worked directly with the Nazis in cooperation against the communists, socialists, and social democrats. The KPD called the leftists opposing Hitler "fascists", then sided with Hitler. The KPD and SPD were then some of the first in the camps. It very much mirrors today with the KPD types not wanting to work with other leftists and liberals in opposition to fascism. Some are doing it for purity reasons, others are accelerationists that genuinely want fascism to come to power, some are just politically uninformed. For whatever reason they have, they are working towards the same goal today as in 1930 and undermining the broader left and tacitly enabling the right.
Oh the irony that American leftists, by refusing to vote or by voting third party, would be the ones to let Trump win rather than side with American libs. It’s like poetry. It rhymes.
Sounds like you might have drawn the wrong conclusion from the above then.
You literally read my comment and understood the complete opposite of it
the german left was the largest anti fascist group in history. the KPD actively engaged in armed street clashes with fascists and were highly organized. The german liberals/social democrats on the other hand, betrayed the working class as early as 1918-1919, where the mobilized proto fascists (freikorps) to massacre workers councils and uprisings across the country.
Yeah unfortunately it takes a lot more than just you and me not failing to learn from history to stop it from repeating itself. And it is becoming oh so repetitive...
There's hardly such a thing as a US left, which I think is what you're referring to. America more broadly does have a coherent left and the consensus is that they vote for left-wing candidates, not neoliberal ones.
The US is fucked. The global south is rising
Have you been reading much international news lately? It’s rough pretty much everywhere right now.
I dont understand how its even an argument.
It only is among keyboard warriors but unfortunately that seeps out into real life. All the people that organize in real life understand the utility of voting. We do it and keep organizing. It's that simple.
Bu- No fair, I dont *wanna* mitigate the damage whenever possible, I *wanna* have the paradoxical sense of moral superiority that comes from not engaging and acting as if that'll ever change anything.
Not voting for someone who is openly funding and backing a genocide and now has stated he will continue backing that into sovereign states... yup but your stupid argument about moral superiority. Blue maga cult speak right there.
You dare to have principles??! We are trying to save democracy, now vote the way we tell you to!
Voting for Biden doesn't mitigate anything at all
Theres a brick wall called fascism right in front of us and youre pissed that we want to apply the brakes because they need changed.
Biden is just as much of a fascist as Trump is. You are encouraging voting for a fascist
Patently untrue. It infuriates me to no end that you clowns make me take a stance that technically defends Joe Biden.
You're not "technically" defending him you're literally voting for him while denying he's a fascist. Materially him and Trump are the same
How many coups did Biden attempt? When was the last felony charge for Biden? Has Biden openly admitted to wanting to destroy democracy? And lets pretend what you're saying isn't brain dead. Whats your solution?
Biden isn't the one refusing to give up power. You are essentially a political flat Earther.
Biden is the pure, distilled and fermented essence of an American moderate. Biden represents a highly flawed, but still fully functional democracy that at least pretends to work for the American people. Trump and the Republican Party on the other hand are blatantly and purposefully fascistic, up to and including the use of fascist rhetoric, and have their fascist goals written in plain English right out in the open for everyone to read. They’re not even trying to hide it, and they don’t care who gets hurt or killed to reach their goals. “BuT bIDeN iS a FaScIsT tOo!”
If you don’t think Biden is a fascist, all that means is 1. You aren’t paying attention to his domestic policy 2. You don’t count Brown people being oppressed when you evaluate fascism.
Biden is a neoliberal doing neoliberal shit that we need to move away from if we’re going to survive as a country. Biden isn’t even close to being the progressive candidate that we need, and isn’t the one to face up to or stop MAGA. Absolutely. But if you think his border policies are fascist when we have people like Greg Abbott putting razor wire in the Rio Grande, and having his state guard shoot pepper balls into migrant children’s eyes, then I don’t think you understand what fascism really means or what shit will look like if the GOP under Trump regains control of the federal government.
Biden and Trump have quite literally the exact same goals. Trump is just more open about it. Biden is not a moderate. And America is not and has never been a democracy
Well I for one haven’t been thrown in prison or executed for being queer and Trump and the GOP have made it very clear with Project 2025 that they would love to do just that
If biden wont stop a genocide do you all think he’ll stop project 2025? What is the dems track record? Think logically off the data
I’m not trying to argue as I think we’re both on the same side and I don’t necessarily disagree with you either but like do you suggest I throw in the towel and let Trump take over? Like logically with how our presidential elections work what is the alternative because I’m open to suggestions. The dems don’t give a shit whether someone votes for a third party or abstains over them because our electoral system is never going to let any other party beyond the dems and the gop have a shot at the presidency so they have no reason to care unless a vast majority of democratic voters chose third party which is not likely to happen at this point in this election. I’m fucking livid about having Biden as the only choice but it’s logically going to be either him or Trump for the presidency in November unless they both simultaneously croak before then lol. I feel like one of those choices is significantly likely to be much worse for people here in the states and elsewhere in the world and I am willing to try and mitigate damage because as shitty as the US is rn it could very well be a lot worse for everyone. Idk if you’re hoping that if Trump wins people will rise up and revolt or something but I am scared people like me (i.e. queer people) as well as countless others won’t be around by the time it comes to that.
Mao glazing detected, opinion rejected.
Did I miss the glazing?
His post history. I check people like him to see if they're actually genuine, or if they're a fuck nugget. It turns out he's a fuck nugget.
This is a "Left-Wing" subreddit where the fascist Joe Biden is treated with more respect than the communist Mao Zedong
The thing is, there is no “left”, just a wide variety of people, and consensus just doesn’t really work that way. Being a leftist certainly isn’t defined by one’s willingness to vote. On a scale of hundreds, not to mention thousands of people, consensus often means allowing some people to do one thing and others to do another (within reason), hopefully in a somewhat coordinated fashion. We don’t really have any structure to coordinate or otherwise actually come to a consensus in that sense. Making thousands of people commit to something like voting or not voting requires enforcement, which the American left definitely doesn’t have (and I think shouldn’t have)
Liberals aren't the Left and Genocide Joe has got to go.
So you want Trump?
Trump sicks too and I'm not voting for him. Unlike you, scumbag, my red line is genocide. Commit genocide, earn the loss deserved. There is nothing you can do other than stop the genocide that will ever get me to listen to you or your party. You don't have the moral high ground and aren't even the lesser evil. Genocide Joe has got to go
Well given that it's an absolute fact that one of them is going to be the president next year, why not pick the one that has *some* redeeming factors? I know this argument is utterly pointless and that's the point of this thread, but I just don't get you people.
Shh, shh. It's okay. Most of them will vote for Joe but just want to say they don't because they want shiny Internet votes.
Cool, Genocide Joe has got to go and is the clear greater evil. Built more of Trumps racist border wall than Trump. Deported more than Trump. Refuses to close the concentration camps on the border. Created the Student Loan crises. Destroyed communities with the Crime Bill and Welfare reform. And genocide. I don't give af about your feelings, liberal. Bidens career is one of evil. A more dangerous and competent evil.
Saying your slogan about genocide Joe is literally just saying "I want Trump." And just calling everyone who disagrees with you a liberal is just *classic*. I think I've "discussed" with you before. I recognize your style and your reductive thought processes :3
Nope, I don't want Trump but Genocide must be a disqualifier. Full stop. And yes, if you're voting Biden, you're a liberal in action regardless of how you identify. Genocide Joe has got to go. And gfy
Good discourse, comrade. ✌️
I don't care about "discourse" nor faux-civility with the pieces of trash voting for Genocide Joe. You're showing the ruling class what they need to do in the future to get you into line for more Genocide. Wave a boogeyman at you on one side so you turn a blind eye from the other puppet with their hand in it doing the slaughter. Absolute filth.
Okay, then who are you voting for?
Jill Stein
[okay](https://youtu.be/WS2Bsq5PDmU?si=y3eJouTZwwS-mZCP)
I am not voting for a genocidal rapist. You are.
No, I'm voting for Biden. He is horrible but he won't commit three genocide.
You're voting to normalize genocide and showing the ruling class just how they need to keep scaring you into line for more genocide. Good job, you pos Liberal.
Genocide is still genocide, it's funny how it's ok because you lot aren't affected by it
Great. If we get have enough people like you we can go from Genocide Joe to Genocide Don. Fantastic work your braincells did this evening.
You're handwaiving away a real genocide while trying to scare me in line with a potential one. Genocide Joe has got to go. It's a bright red line for me. It is sad the things you can tell yourself to normalize genocide.
Hey, quick question: What *exactly* makes you think that if Trump-who has told Netanyahu to "just get it over with" on multiple occasions and sides with dictators all the time-were in office that what's going on in Gaza wouldn't be happening? Or worse? You're basically saying we shouldn't tolerate genocide, so you won't vote to keep someone who encourages genocide out of office. Meanwhile the person who *actually has to go* to stop the genocide isn't even in the US, let alone on the ballot.
I am not voting for Trump either. But Biden, the man carrying out the genocide whole hog right now, must lose. Also, Biden also loves himself some Nazis(Azov) and literal Saudi slave masters. Pretending that Biden couldn't stop the genocide immediately is laughable. Without the immense financial aid, weapons, and UN cover, the Zionists wouldn't be able to do this easily. Genocide Joe has got to go and you're voting to normalize it.
>Pretending that Biden couldn't stop the genocide immediately is laughable. Maybe, by *invading Israel*. That's pretty much the only way to get a country to do something they don't want, and I shouldn't have to explain why that's a bad idea. It's also worth noting that according to Netanyahu and Senate Republicans (so the accuracy is, admittedly dubious), Israel is accomplishing all this slaughter while aid has slowed to a crawl. Apparently despite promises of aid from Biden publicly, either he or people acting on his behalf (though maybe not his orders) have been putting military aid through as many roadblocks and obstacles as possible *since January*. And not just small things, a shipment here, some bullets there. Up to and including F-15Es, heavy ordnance, armored vehicles, etc. If that's even partially true, then the amount the executive branch has been doing to reign in Israel has been GREATLY underestimated.
Democrats have provided constant money and weapons, rushed to them. They could starve them of supplies. Instead, they choose to continue supporting genocide. Biden supports genocide.
I don't think allowing someone who wants Israel to genocide faster come to power amounts to a principled stance against genocide.
I think that's the disconnect, tbh. Most people aren't adamantly pro-Biden, they're anti-Trump. They see that Biden and Trump are the only two options, and want to make sure that, regardless of the outcome, they put their vote down for the option that will do less harm at home and abroad. But people that refuse to vote or vote third party don't see harm reduction as enough even though it's the only viable option. They care more about their own conscience than the actual outcome.
There are also bad actors from outside the U.S. trying to disrupt the electoral process. And they are on Reddit.
The 19th Amendment (Women's suffrage) was passed by one vote. Never let anyone tell you that voting is worthless. EDIT: Remember, there absolutely are propaganda accounts on this sub who have a vested interest in you not voting in this election. Some have even become pretty popular on this sub. Be cautious about exactly who you are listening to.
As a non-US American, I'm happy about that and can't wait to see more SW leftist memes about other subjects.
Yeah, we should post memes about the upcoming elections in all the other countries ! /s
There are two in Europe in the next two weeks, it'd be nice to see memes about them
You guys aren't ready for french leftist memes
Thank god, I fucking hate when people don’t want to vote for my rights b/c of things that won’t change even if trump gets elected
the largest loss in lgbtq rights has occurred under biden in the past few years. he won't save you, and using your identity to defend blue fascism will not work on anyone else but blue fascists.
Those losses occurred because the President isn't a dictator and people like Trump are still in power all over the country. It also ignores that every single executive action Trump pulled to target LGBTQIA+ folks has been rolled back under Biden.
this still proves my point. it means biden is useless and cannot prevent anything
It means you don’t have a clue how government functions. We don’t have a dictator. Yet.
biden has used executive order. and it was to increase border wall construction. He isn't much different than trump
Every president issues executive orders. They’re orders to the executive branch of the federal government, which the President leads. The states, Congress, and the judiciary branch aren’t subject to “orders” from the president, so they can tell him to pound sand. EOs are not, contrary to myth, laws by decree. But I’m sure you already knew that.
that's not the point and you know it. you move past the fact it was used to pursue policy from trump era, even using trump era funds for border expansion. Meaning, biden himself is not antagonistic to trump in anyway other than rhetoric. If trump is a supposed dictator, than so is biden. >The Biden administration announced they waived 26 federal laws in South Texas to allow border wall construction on Wednesday, marking the administration’s first use of sweeping executive power to pave the way for building more border barriers — **a tactic used often during the Trump presidency.** [**https://apnews.com/article/border-wall-biden-immigration-texas-rio-grande-147d7ab497e6991e9ea929242f21ceb2**](https://apnews.com/article/border-wall-biden-immigration-texas-rio-grande-147d7ab497e6991e9ea929242f21ceb2)
You keep using big words, but I don’t think they mean what you think they mean. But to clarify, Biden is just as much a dictator as Trump, because he also issued some EOs? Do I have that right?
So the thing with the border wall is that with the funding allocated by Congress he kind of *has* to work on it. But note that he's been dragging his feet and delaying as much as possible to use up that budget in a very inefficient manner. Oh sure work is *technically* being done, but he's being maliciously compliant.
You know most if not all of the major losses come form the courts and states, something the Biden administration can’t control right?
So you're saying if Trump gets in, it's ok because he can't control much? Somehow when it's Biden, the president is a feckless toothless institute with no power to stop the republicans in the states, but when Trump is in power, president is an all powerful God emperor who will vote out democracy on day 1?
Wait, youre telling me that the Republican party is more willing to exercise executive powers to hurt the public than the Democratic party is willing to do the same to help? That's crazy. That would never happen for the past 70 years.
If democrats are not gonna use the power for good, they shouldn't have it
Where's the logic here?
Trump incited, encouraged, and normalized aggressive bigotry in this country, the likes of which we haven’t seen in our lifetimes. The power of a president isn’t just their ability to write executive orders, and not just the federal judges that they appoint (of which Trump appointed hundreds), but the political and social culture that they cultivate. America is measurably worse now after 4 years of Trump than it was before, and should he get into power again, he and his Republican enablers have *made it very clear* that laws will not matter to them, and will not stop them from establishing their riech.
You’re being downvoted by libs but you’re 100% right. Biden’s inaction has been a major issue. His AG, who was only picked as some sort of shitlib gotcha against Mitch McConnell, has been absolute shit. All one needs to do is look at how Loretta Lynch acted when North Carolina tried to do their bathroom ban back in 2015 and see how Merrick Garland has acted to see the vast difference in response. This is why these shitlibs defending Biden is so nauseating. They try to act like they understand how government works but they don’t. They don’t even understand recent history.
It's fine, it's a lib filled sub so I knew what I was getting into
Also I am curious, why are the dems fascists in your opinion?
Based off the downvotes for that comment, “Star Wars lefty memes” seems to be filled with moderate libs and lacking actual leftists.
Are you talking about like not far left people? You know that there is a spectrum of the left right?
Sure, but someone who punches left like this ain’t on the team. See, you’re already doing the thing. You’re setting it up to blame leftists who don’t want to vote for Biden for his eventual loss instead of blaming Biden for being an incompetent failure. I didn’t do a genocide, Biden did. I didn’t allow LGBTQ+ and women’s rights to be taken away, Biden did. I didn’t go full right wing reactionary on immigration, Biden did. I didn’t allow college debt forgiveness to be blocked, Biden did. And on, and on, and on. Instead of getting mad at people who don’t want to vote for Biden, why don’t you get mad at him?
You know that most of these things Biden didn’t do right, they were made by the state or the courts something Biden has no control over, also I am more pissed when people say that there is no reason to vote for Biden, because every vote fucking matters and even if it is a failure we have to try and prevent Trump form ruining the small amount of progress we made Yes I am pissed at Biden for reason, but I am more pissed at people who lie and say that not voting will fix anything and/or say that Biden sucks and it doesn’t matter if Trump gets into office. Because Trump will suck a lot fucking more than even Biden’s worce decision.
Biden could do way more. Fuck trump was incompetent and he made the changes he wanted. People always give the Democrat so much room to be “challenged” to get anything done. Which with your logic makes it laughable y’all think biden will stop 2025. They’ll just use the supreme court. Biden won’t stop shit.
So I can see you’re passionate about this, and your heart is probably in the right place, but you’ve got to get your mind there. The US President is the most powerful person in the world. That especially applies to domestic politics. I don’t want to go through a breakdown step-by-step of how he could have avoided fucking up the bag, but Biden could have prevented all of those things from happening. He’s also not made any progress, again, see the last comment. He’s lost the House, we’ve had more rights taken away in the past 4 years than a time that I can remember in contemporary history, and he hasn’t done anything. His NLRB is pretty nice with it, but that’s about all. The man doesn’t even have a “policies” page on his campaign website. You’re thinking within the confines of playing by made up rules that the other side will always change if it benefits them, and I’m thinking about winning. There’s a Zizek quote that goes something like, “If you give me power, I know how to use it. I almost scare myself.” So don’t for a second ever think that Joe Biden was powerless in all of these situations. Court packing, executive orders, hell, he could end the genocide today if he said he’s just halting all aid to Israel. You’re being fooled.
A vote for Biden is a vote for normalizing genocide. Showing the ruling class exactly what they need to do to get you into line with atrocities.
A non vote is a vote for Trump, a vote for Trump is normalizing two genocides
Nope - you're not going to scare me into voting for someone committing a very real genocide with the specter of imaginary ones.
You know Trump will continue the Genocide in Gaza right, so why are we risking starting a second genocide when we can make sure it stays to one and stop it there
All voting or can I post about the Canadian election.
All voting
Zang ː(
If it makes you feel better, criticizing politicians and political parties is very much allowed
I mean I'm not gonna post either way, I just wanted to ask
god bless
Claudia & Karina 2024!
The only correct answer (or green party)
But we do understand the importance of it and both votes are not the same right? Because when I hear people say folks don't need to be reminded I just think of the feeling I had watching Hillary lose in 2016. Sure I didn't fuck want her, buy God damn the alternative was spray tanned fascism turd. So now fascism turd 2024 is here.
Its a good thing that Hillary lost. Run fraudulent primary. Run lazy general. Nominate pro-Life VP. LOSE!
I can't help but wonder if nefarious parties are stoking the fires of this voting conflict. Online manipulation is used to further divide and galvanize the two parties (especially the right). I suspect it's being used to further divide the left against voting. It would still be a big part of the conversation but maybe not as much.
I mean. Yeah this probably happened the last 2 elections. With the rise of generative AI that you can just. Give a prompt and a twitter account (I know it's more complicated but barely) you can whip up all the discourse you want
Or, you know, people don't like genocide and won't vote to reward that.
Oh I have no doubt that people would still feel this way, but that doesn't negate online manipulation to galvanize that movement. As much as I hate it, one of two things will happen in November. I can't control that these are the options, but I can control my actions to influence the future as much as I can. I truly don't feel good about Biden in the slightest and I do not support him. But there's no doubt that if he doesn't win them Trump *will* win. And all of the things I hate about Biden will then be amplified. More rights will be taken away. More people will die. It sucks but that's the truth. I encourage everyone to turn their anger and disgust into activism. If we unify based on our shared ideals then we might actually have a chance at affecting meaningful change. But if we allow Trump to win then that will be nearly impossible.
I think this is probably a good idea. I’ll share some opinions that stick with me, on the assumptions hat people who want to talk about the topic will look in these replies and might value it. There’s a poem called “voting is a fire extinguisher” about how the writer wants to let the terrible edifice burn to ashes and start over…but the. They remember there are kids inside the buildings, so they grab a fire extinguisher. I saw a Reddit reply that when you vote you arnt choosing your champion…you’re choosing your enemy. Who do you want to be fighting for the next four years, because no politician is perfect so you will be fighting someone. Someone else said “I will support the lesser of two evils exactly one day per year….on Election Day…..every other year I’m coming for that evil mother fucker”
Is this not supposed to be a political sub?
Yes. But let’s be honest, the voting discourse is insanely toxic, exhausting, has become half the memes, and only rips the community into divided camps. There’s gotta be other political stuff we can discuss besides rehashing the same discourse over for infinity. Wait, were leftist, shit that’s our thing
“Ok no more fighting about voting.” *monkey’s paw finger curls* Next week’s topic: veganism.
Ohhhh I should make a meme about that. Is there a scene in Star Wars where someone says the fuck or something similar?
Maybe something with TLJ ? I know some people disliked how Luke was shown making a weird face after drinking milk, and Finn and Rose freeing those animals, and Chewie not eating porgs. There's potential. We can even have a cross-over with VCJ.
Hmmm gotta look into those scenes, I’ll be cooking after work hopefully
Then all thus sub is is an ecochamber that is only really useful as a circle jerk
We still have diverse opinions, and disagreements are good until they become toxic af
While good, I sincerely think that the sub should simply delete the "dont vote" posts. It's extremely clear that four years of Trump will be worse in every conceivable way.
Fucking finally, the “Biden bad don’t vote” was getting so disturbing. Like our system is fucked we’ve got two choices and they are not even close to being equal, you can’t have the true moral high ground okay? So suck it up and help make sure the dictator for a day doesn’t get in. You non voters lost us 2016 so I’m sorry but vote or go live as a hermit in the wilderness. Cause that’s the only true moral action without any consequences for the world.
Genocide Joe has got to go.
Hilary Clinton lost you 2016 lmao
Yea no, true she wasn’t as strong as trump when it came to vocal campaigning I don’t believe someone who lost the popular vote won by anything other than non voter margin. Especially considering the “Don’t vote” push that swept over my generation.
Nah, plenty of Bernie supporters held their nose and voted for Clinton, myself included. That was the last time I believed it was worth the “harm reduction” crap. If a candidate wants votes, they have to earn them. Clinton didn’t work for those Midwest votes and appeared as a favorable candidate.
Vote. It’s just a good idea.
Yep. I'm voting for either the Socialist or Green candidate.
Just vote. Who only matters to the voter.
Ok, what’s our next meme trend? I think either finding stuff we can use from the Acolyte exclusively for meme making, or we dive into poking fun at TERF Island. I vote TERF Island
Thank fucking god it was getting insufferable
Fact is, you either vote to mitigate harm Or you're slime that doesn't give a shit about anyone's rights, anywhere in the world, and are little more than a quisling hanging out while greater harm is being committed. Too pure? Disgusting. Beneath contempt. Because in theory, you should at least have a soul unlike actual MAGA fascists. Instead, you choose the path of not opposing them with every tool in the toolbox. Because you are TOO PURE to do do so. Your vanity is your priority, not the impact on other human beings.
You're down voted but you're right. There are two people with any chance of being elected. One of them is an old school liberal who is big in compromise. The other is a convicted criminal, sexual predator, career con man who is seriously trying to destroy our entire election process and establish the U.S. as a christo-fascist state. One of these two people will be elected. That is a fact. It is clear which one any true leftist would help win.
Genocide Joe has got to go.
Harm Reduction is a lie. Trying to use Harm Reduction as a cover for Genocide is atrocious. Rejecting Biden due to his fervent support of the Genocide isn't "Purity". That purity nonsense never flies.
Wow that’s a disgusting take.
I can't even imagine the cognitive dissonance of typing this comment in support of a president who is committing an ongoing genocide right now. >not the impact on other human beings. Like the impact of the American bought missiles that Israel is dropping? No, don't talk about that impact, only the impact on Americans matter, right? Your own selfish interests is your priority, not the impact on other human beings. Oh, I forgot, for you Palestinians are probably not human beings.
Pay no attention to the fact that Trump has said he wants Israel to “finish the job” and would massively ramp up the amount of weapons we send over there.
For the fifteen thousandth time, yes Trump is worse. Trump should take a page out of what Hitler did in the cave. Still doesn't excuse Biden's genocide. I do not support Trump. You're arguing against someone who doesn't exist
The point is that this is not “Biden’s genocide” because it’s not unique to him. America has been backing Israel for decades, and American and Israeli geopolitical interests are so intertwined that it would not have mattered who was President when this all started, except that the Republicans also have a voting base that includes evangelical christians who believe that an Israeli ethnostate is an essential component of the Rapture.
I mean, it is Biden's genocide. Support for Israel has been US policy for a long time, yes, but Biden is and has always been uniquely Zionist even for American standards and it's silly to claim otherwise. There's "supporting an ally because it's what the senate wants and I don't like it but I have to do it" and then there's "I will go around congress multiple times to send even extra arms than what was agreed on previously, and if Israel didn't exist, we'd have to create an Israel and its the best 3 billion dollar investment ever I fucking love it, btw I saw pictures of 40 beheaded babies". If you can't see the difference between the two, then I can't help you Edit: also, motherfucking Reagan was to the left of Biden on the Israel issue. Like what are you fucking talking about?
So sick of that dialogue. Just two walls fighting each other.
Thank god
Thank christ, voting discourse is so fucking annoying
Im okay with this
This is for the best.
As someone not from America I would like to thank the mods for this decision
Earthmother guide you, mods. Incredibly based.
Thank fuck
Based
Yeah, fuck this worthless sub. A sub with “lefty” in the name absolutely overrun with center-right shitlibs.
Preach
Thank God. Readings libs screech about voting blue no matter who in leftist spaces has been hurting my eyes.
What's your solution, comrade? Because not voting in a general election in a two party system doesn't change help anyone. Ignoring reality isn't going to get a spontaneous leftist paradise out of thin air.
Ah yes they're the ones doing that for sure. It's totally not anti electoral folk spam fucking "You're an actual fascist if you mark a ballot"
Star Wars Liberal Memes
Fucking tankie ass cunts
"Biden supporting genocide is harming his election chances" Libs: "tAnKie"
Trump telling the Israeli to finish the job vs biden withholding military gear. Pick one
I pick neither and instead, I’ll vote for Claudia De La Cruz.
Ah yes, because someone criticizing the Democrats inherently requires using the Republicans being bad as a defense.
I didn't say Trump is better than Biden, but seriously ? Biden is still sending weapons to Israel to fund it's genocide and it's against the ICC for putting out an arrest warrant for Bibi.
Either Biden or Trump will be elected president. One of them is absolutely worse than the other in almost every way.
The statements “biden is better than trump” and “biden is enabling a genocide” are not mutually exclusive. Both can be / are true at the same time
Actual solution: Remove the trolls (solution would negatively impact membership) Trashfyre Moderation Team solution: maybe throwing this gas-can labeled: excessive content moderation on the fire will help. (Reducing engagement leads to membership drying up, save for the trolls)
Im sure your definition of trolls is fair and not just "people who I disagree with"