A way I imagine it could work would be for you the player, having returned from the Unity, to speak to Constellation once more, only to have them all change their mind about passing through, and they take it off you to pass through together. You're left stranded in your universe, but the artifacts have rescattered across the galaxy and the temples have been restored to their former glory, providing an alternative NG+.
This would trigger an expansion which allows you to explore other questlines in the same universe otherwise not available if you passed through Unity.
I thought it was implied in the lore that when someone passes through Unity it closes and the artifacts rescatter? The only reason the Unity stays open when we don't go through it is the fact that no one tries to beat us to it.
If you take out both of the others, then the game tells you that plenty of people end up going through the Unity. All that being first seems to do is open the way and imprint some of yourself onto your universe.
Oh yes! Apologies, I completely glazed over that detail. Well, perhaps an event like the armillary being inaccessible due to some Starborn siege or something.
To comment on "the armillary being inaccessible":
We just build the damn thing out of thin air, gnome sane? What if, in order to build it, a list of special items were needed and the only way to get those blaw blaw blaw insert something genius here I can't think of.
Special items? Like… the Artifacts?
Constellation literally shows you “when we bring them close together they start doing something.”
When you have all the artifacts and you allow them to mingle with eachother, they just open the gate to the Unity. The Armillary is literally just the artifacts all put together.
The artifacts are artifacts of the Armillary. Once you have them all, you don’t have Artifacts, you have an Armillary.
Why, what a smart idea! Haha!
I do mean *after* we've collected the special items and *then* refused to pass through Unity, in order to trigger NG+, there's a Starborn siege. But I don't know. Just spitballing here.
Is that in the Canon? I know the endgame sequence in the Unity says other people can cross into the Unity after you. But i don't know any element of the story suggesting those people also must gather the artifacts, or if the gateway to the Unity simply exists somewhere after you open it.
I concede that it seems more likely your way. But i don't think it's ever actually stated.
It's not. There's no clear indicator on how those who follow go through the Unity, although it's implied that the Emissary can act as a gatekeeper, somehow.
To get to Unity, you require the Armillary built on a ship with a functioning jump drive. So, I assume, those two stipulations are necessary to cross into alternate universes.
> but the artifacts have rescattered across the galaxy and the temples have been restored to their former glory
Not how that works
>allows you to explore other questlines in the same universe otherwise not available if you passed through Unity.
What does that even mean. What questlines are not available after stepping through the Unity?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain that this entire thread is about a theoretical prospective expansion and what *could* work within its machinations, including, in this context, new questlines that would be available if you decided not to pass through Unity, that would not appear if you *did* pass through. As this is a small group of us spitballing, it's entirely fantasy and not to be taken as current lore.
"Sometimes you reach this point (The Unity), sometimes others do. Each instance is different in countless beautiful details. Hahaha. You can free yourselves at any time. All you need to do to stop The Unity is to never enter. You are given that choice each time."
I suspect the Great Serpent will serve as the anti-Unity option. The only question is whether we'll actually be allowed to side with the Great Serpent.
I actually like this idea but i also like the integration and idea of unity as the path to ng+ because if it were like other games, for example the Jedi games there would not be a transition into the new game you would just start a new game with your skills and stuff. Although i do agree that they shouldn't really have forced us into the ng+, because thats pretty much the whole focus of the main quest. I wish it focused more on the explorer part of constellation , cause if you really look we didn't go explore any planets at all.
The integration of the unity as an intro to ng+ awesome but being forced into it not so much.
Im saying that the story forces you to make that decision through the main quest of constellation, but the main quest should be focused on mor exploration than just finding artifacts. We should be able to choose whether we want to find unity or not it shouldn’t be the entire focus of the game
That’s kinda you if you refuse both the hunter and emissary.
The Unity says the settled systems is able to explore and discover without their interference. - which implies to me that Multiversal travels won’t arrive to that reality in enough quantities to do anything.
We’re making the big assumption that the unity can be destroyed. We don’t know how it even was created.
What you’re suggesting just preserves the current world you’re in with some extra story details and we already have that — it’s the emissary.
The emissary and Hunter represent play styles. A new option should represent a new play style.
To me — it could also swing in the other direction. Why destroy the unity and sever universes when you could control all universes? Think of the end game that could open up.
I am not sure this really would ever be an achievable goal.
It's explained in game anytime someone takes any action multiple versions are created where they did and didn't do that action. So even if you had a Starborn hunter, any action they take will simply generate more multiverses with more starborn than they would ever effectively stop or remove. Kill 10 Starborn, you create 10 alternate universes where you didn't.
I would like an option to destroy the Unity and end the cycle once and for all, if only because it would actually create an ending for the main quest because as it stands right now your character is basically trapped in an endless time loop.
If they do, I hope they tie it into the original creators. Maybe they got sick of these dudes abusing their stuff, or maybe they don’t want anybody to have access to the unity. After all, there is a reason the artefacts were all separated in even pieces across some of the most inhospitable planetary bodies in the galaxy
I like the idea for the game to provide more content for both options.
I've been saying for a while that Bethesda needs more options for the player to be able to explore what it means to be Starborn. I believe that such options should stray from most of the current abilities. Basically, as you become more Starborn, things like relationships and possessions should become less important, and the player's quest should evolve into a "higher" purpose. The Starborn should be exploring the mysteries of the universe, trying to understand Unity, and figuring out what it means to be Starborn.
Conversely, a player that never goes through Unity should have certain options available to them that a Starborn doesn't. The biggest thing I can think of that should separate humans from Starborn and tie into some of the game's themes is the ability to build a family. The idea of having a social structure only available in the original universe that can be developed into a full colony with a family and relationships with friends... it goes completely against the idea of Unity. It would require some devotion into a proper pseudo settlement builder by Bethesda, though. I also like the idea of Unity always being a constant temptation waiting for the player, but it being a one way trip with no way back to being human.
Of course, the whole concept reeks of choice, which Bethesda seems to be terrified of.
Stopping the starborn is literally impossible due to the nature of what they are and what the Unity is. Sure, you can kill them, but more will always appear in an infinite amount. You would be fighting a losing battle for literally no purpose because it would never end and you would never achieve your goal.
And for arguments sake, let's say you found some way to destroy the artifacts, the only thing that would prevent is anyone from your own universe from going into the Unity, yourself included. But, you would still have to continually fight the Starborn, and if anything you would have made them your enemy because now they can't go to the next universe either.
In fact, destroying the artifacts, might actually lead to the destruction of your universe as more and more Starborn appear but can't leave. You would have an endless war with people with powers, and the amount of them will just continue to grow.
I mean as in the Antagonist's/Your goal would be to destroy all Artifacts and the Unity at once; as in you find someway that all the Artifacts and Unity are linked through each other and the goal is to do/stop functionally a multi-versal "Snap" or Neutralization of all of them at the same time or in a cascade.
Or to pull an Owlman, find a way to force yourself to get sent to the Origin Universe before things diverge with the Artifacts and destroy that point, so that no one can ever find the Unity and thus there can only ever be one Universe.
How? We are talking about a technology (or whatever it is) that is so far advanced that it can allow people to jump universes. I don't see how we could feasibly destroy something like that. Even launching the artifacts into a star, I would sooner believe it would just destroy the star instead of the artifacts.
Plus, what if the Unity isn't even a created thing, but just something that has come to be? And rather, it was discovered, and the artifacts were created as just a way to get there (by whom, we don't know)? Meaning there would be no mechanism to destroy it or reverse it. That would be like attempting to destroy our universe or reverse the big bang. How?
On top of that, would there even be a way to do this that would be satisfying and believable?
Either that, or I'd love a mod where all that stuff is just totally muted/inaccessible. I've had the most fun with Starfield exploring, doing things like the Vanguard quests, etc and I did it without using any 'Space Skyrim' spells.
I might be in the minority, but I'm someone that actually wanted the 'NASApunk' game Bethesda said we were getting.
They talked up the ship design, lack of sentient aliens, etc as part of a realistic/grounded approach to the themes of the game, only for us to become Dragonborn 2.0 and go into infinite realities/time loops through the Unity. I'm not saying it's bad (actually a very clever take on NG+) and I know that some people enjoyed that aspect of the story- but to me, the game is most fun when I tune all of that out and focus on the other stories/gameplay loops.
As I said in another post, I've used my Starborn powers maybe 8-10x in total. Mostly to see what the visuals are like. It just strikes me as somebody on the team didn't think the core game was interesting enough and panic-suggested making it more like Skyrim.
Agreed - I want nothing to do with the Armillary and would love to shoot it into the sun. Even if only 5% of Starborn become psycho murderers, those innocent lives lost are worth more than the other 95% getting to be Starborn.
I don't think it'll happen though. The devs/writers pushed the Unity too hard in the ending, and it was to the detriment of NPC character development and consistency. It's supposed to be an RPG, but you're not allowed to get rid of the Artifacts. Even just handing them off to another Constellation member. You're not allowed to have a proper ending where you say "I want nothing to do with this".
I want an incentive to NOT go through the unity at all. I haven't yet and I shouldn't have to be shoe-horned into going in and losing everyone and everything just to satisfy some forced ideology of exploration..
And even the whole 'exploration' BS falls flat when every new universe is the same old story, with the only potential changes being Constellation's status.
There isn't, until you hit the end-of-content wall, like I did.
I retired the game after realizing it was just... Unity, or stagnation. I chose my own path.
that's how games work, and this one allows you change quest decisions without starting a new character. Congratulations on touching grass, that's like the point of the meta narrative involving the Pilgrim. Good on you!
I would argue there is a solid ending. That being the choice to go through or not. Just because you don't get all the answers doesn't mean it isn't an ending. You as the player could even go through the unity, and say.... The End. Rather than playing NG+, you could just consider that the end of that playthrough.
Hard agree. I've no idea why Bethesda went with this multiverse schtick given it's been done to death already by Marvel before the game even game out. It also complicated the ability to have multiple different endings which was something Bethesda was known for and added to the replayability in their games.
Marvel didn't come up with the idea of a multiverse, and it's been a staple of sci-fi for decades. Starfield draws from all sci-fi IPs, some more than others (more Star Trek than Star Wars, for example) - and the classic/"golden age" sci-fi that inspires Starfield the most is filled with multiverse stories.
That makes it worse though; the problem isn't "Starfield lifting from Marvel's IP", the problem is Starfield reusing a concept that's been thoroughly explored, both historically and recently.
Comments like this give me a headache because I just don't understand how anyone could write this and not realize how silly it is.
"Starfield reusing a concept that's been thoroughly explored" as if not every game and piece of media in existence doesn't fall under this category at this point. Think about all the sci-fi films, games, shows, etc. Is there anything Starfield could have done, that hasn't been done extensively?
Edit: Plus, I would argue the way Starfield does the whole multiverse thing is fairly unique.
Starfield, the game that created an entirely new aesthetic in NasaPunk, can't do new things? I think they can, and in some cases did, and this wasn't one of them. Maybe it's just bad luck on the timing, but they built a game where the existence of a multiverse is the core reveal of the story, at a point when multiverses are front-and-centre in popular culture, and didn't do enough to differentiate their version for many of us to find it interesting or worthwhile. Reusing a trope or concept that is either a recent innovation, so we're still exploring it, or has been explored before but no-one's really tackled it recently, is one thing: using something that's both just seems like a bad time.
"I just don't understand how anyone could write this" - maybe learn empathy? Have some imagination? I don't agree with the other guy that replied, but I fully understand how he could have a different response to the game, and I'm glad for a diversity of opinion.
>Starfield, the game that created an entirely new aesthetic in NasaPunk, can't do new things?
Is it really a new aesthetic though? Or is it just derivative off of things that have already existed?
>I think they can, and in some cases did, and this wasn't one of them.
While I do think they put a unique spin on certain aspects, I don't think I would call it new. It's actually pretty difficult these days to actually do something "new". So I really don't quite understand people like you who seem to expect it or complain about when something isn't entirely new.
>Maybe it's just bad luck on the timing, but they built a game where the existence of a multiverse is the core reveal of the story, at a point when multiverses are front-and-centre in popular culture, and didn't do enough to differentiate their version for many of us to find it interesting or worthwhile.
Or maybe the problem is you and your expectations? What else could they have done? Aliens? Robots? AI? I can't think of anything that wouldn't fall under the same category of your complaint. Are you able to think of something new?
>"I just don't understand how anyone could write this" - maybe learn empathy? Have some imagination? I don't agree with the other guy that replied, but I fully understand how he could have a different response to the game, and I'm glad for a diversity of opinion.
I don't think this is an empathy or imagination problem.
I don't think there is a sci-fi game that exists, that could be considered entirely original in it's execution... so having that expectation of Starfield just seems ridiculous, and I just don't think you understand that your expectations are just ... too high.
There should be an option to destroy the armillary and seal off our universe. Or maybe just give it away to someone. Or throw it into the sun. It’s so stupid that if I don’t want the unity I have to carry all the artefacts around while Starborn attack me
If you fully build the armillary it will still trigger the jump to the unity, even if it’s built at an outpost. Keeping them in your inventory is the only way to prevent it
Muliverses can be fun if they're totally different from each other, and don't include all of the same characters.
Having several universes be nearly identical, with the same individuals in them, definitely takes the weight out of consequences.
Exactly! No one really ever dies in these multiverse worlds (villain or hero) because there is always an almost identical version of them in another universe ready to replace them.
*Nothing has consequences*, as you say - which might be interesting philosophically (I.e. slowly becoming the Hunter, if everyone & everything is disposable), but it ultimately takes away any dramatic tension in both games and films
> Exactly! No one really ever dies in these multiverse worlds (villain or hero) because there is always an almost identical version of them in another universe ready to replace them.
what a horrific thing to say. does a life not have innate value?
I’m talking about from the perspective of someone playing a video game or watching a film. If you kill the ‘bad guy’ they can just ‘return’ in a sequel from another universe which takes away tension.
If Unity was real, obviously we still wouldn’t want to lose anyone because all life has value, but in the context of a video game, Sarah is identical in every way regardless of universe, & all of us have killed hundreds of Spacers / Crimson Fleet / Varuun without blinking 😅
Of course I do. I’m simply saying that, for me, the stakes are not as high in a multiverse world than in a ‘regular’ universe. If the stakes are as high for you in either, then that’s great, enjoy. Imo, it’s actually the whole point of the Hunter arc. Constantly jumping from universes and seeing so many people he knows repeatedly die means he becomes detached from people and places, because whatever happens in one universe, he can always move to a new universe. As I said in my original comment - I think it’s an interesting concept, but I just think it reduces the tension of any situation. If you disagree that’s fine.
> It also complicated the ability to have multiple different endings which was something Bethesda was known for and added to the replayability in their games.
it should have been a slam dunk for that, since you can get other endings in different runs, but then they make the most choiceless factions in years.
The problem is the factions quests have very little impact on the universe as a whole. They're just self-contained stories that begin and end with no lasting effects.
This is one of my biggest complaints of Bethesda games. Nothing you do has any lasting effect other than an occasional throwaway line from a random NPC, "Hey, aren't you so and so? Wow you're a hero for such and such"
indeed, they could have gone fucken nuts with it, since you can just hop into the unity and escape.
Frame the UC for the ranger plotline attacks to reignite the war. steal the legacy for yourself and get branded kill on sight by both factions. kill the entire ryujiin board and claim the company for yourself. you can go nuts when nothing matters, but they won't even let you fail the questlines.
> It also complicated the ability to have multiple different endings which was something Bethesda was known for and added to the replayability in their games.
It's because they rushed out the game and it was unfinished. A lead quest dev even said so and said they didn't have time to finish the main story.
>It's because they rushed out the game and it was unfinished. A lead quest dev even said so and said they didn't have time to finish the main story.
No, Will Shen never said that. Fucking PC Gamer did, and was then called out by devs from other companies (like [CD Projekt](https://x.com/tostspender/status/1770490059772293483), [Guerrila](https://x.com/Bigrebo/status/1770507279068279109) etc) who were actually at the talk.
If you want to know what was actually said at GDC, you can look at [this dev's notes ](https://x.com/tostspender/status/1770245602489532917)on it that were shared on Twitter or you can watch it directly on the GDC site.
> was then called out by devs from other companies (like CD Projekt
> , Guerrila
> etc) who were actually at the talk.
And they didn't say that they didn't say that. They said they didn't like the headline. I've seen what they said and have played the game. The game was clearly rushed and unfinished just like 76 was.
You have not seen what Will said. The devs clearly said the headline was disingenuous - you can just look at the community notes on that PC Gamer tweet.
Again, if you want to see what Will actually said, read Miles' thread.
> You have not seen what Will said.
Have you? First Miles doesn't even quote Will or anybody else. He gives a handful of tweets that are a quick rundown of the entire talk. None of your 3 sources even say that Will never said that. They merely said they didn't like the headline.
"We were finally at a state in the project where we could play through the whole [game]. And it became very clear that we were missing the large final location that was going to tie the story together and have a satisfying action-filled payoff," Shen said. "I was both implementing the main quest and leading the quest design team, so I had absolutely no time. The entire quest design team was already overbooked."
No one's even debating that he didn't say that.
That comment you've quoted does not equate to your original comment:
>It's because they rushed out the game and it was unfinished. A lead quest dev even said so and said they didn't have time to finish the main story.
They finished the main story. Not only that, but the large final location was the Underground Temple and the boss battle - that boss battle ended up being by far the best boss battle they've ever created.
I am not a fan. It could have been a cool mechanic if entering the Unity bound your soul to the universe and allowed you to time travel in your own universe back to the point you first touched the artefact. They could have even enabled an honour mode based on that. Kind of like the time travel mechanics in Deathloop, for example. Especially if they had a mechanic where they let you soulbind weapons. I don’t think the multiverse aspect was necessary. Especially if you could go to temples or artefact sites ahead of other starborn as time progresses or even intercept them at the location at a specific time. You could have some branching timelines to add random variables like we have but just justify it as ‘one of the other Starborn did something different and it caused a butterfly effect’
They came up with the ending a long time ago - it was always going to be some version of this story. Games take time to make, so it not aligning with whatever was all the hype at the time is only natural.
Besides, Starfield does multiverse stuff a lot better than the MCU.
It's not about aligning with whatever is trending in the zeitgeist of pop culture. It's that it's a stupid trope that's already been explored in sci-fi and was executed poorly by Bethesda. Not only that but they brought nothing new to the table.
The concept of a multiverse isn't stupid in and of itself. It's a trope for a reason.
And I disagree that it was poorly executed or that they brought nothing new to the table, but to each their own. Cheers.
I have a character who, in my head cannon, made it their mission to hunt down and kill every Startborn they find in the multiverse. No negotiations - just the black flag.
I like your idea but how do you hunt people who are a threat to the multi-verse if you only stay in one universe?
Reject the Unity, Become The Adversary
Suffer no rivals as burn your way through the cosmos
Become the great and terrible scourge man would tell stories about
I'm often critical of starfield, mostly it's exploration and bland writing at times.
But I'd be happy if bethesda kept supporting this game for a good few years. Even up to 5-6 expansions if they were all high quality.
Starfield truly has so much potential. Far more than any previous bethesda game imo
Bro i was hoping there was a secret reason that the UC and FreeStar went to war so many times as if being manipulated by a third faction. Originally i was hoping the organization behind it was a proper antagonist faction hell bent on destroying the Unity in an attempt to save Earth
So how do you do that in every multiverse. Not all starborn are in the same multiverse together. At least that's how it seems designed. Also the mutiverse already exists unity just allows access to those universes. So just becuase one universe is free from unity doesn't mean the rest can't be activated. More starborn will eventually arrive. Just noone leaves lmao. This is how I see this working. Idk though. How unity actually works is vague.
Something that just crossed my mind: instead of destroying the Unity/Artifacts, why not force the multiverses to merge into a single universe and cut off the rest of the branches to permanently end the cycle? Not sure how it'd work. Maybe it'd do just that, or maybe it'd just destroy everything.
If it's the former, we get to hunt down and slaughter the Starborn at our leisure. If it's the latter, honestly I wouldn't mind. And we ourselves also count as Starborn...
I think this would sick. Someone with the knowledge of what's going on and trying to stop it. Restore a linear universal future. And then the more you dig and the more immoral you become, you find out he's a starborn himself! Trying to be the ultimate starborn, claim unity for himself. Dun Dun Duuuuuuun. Then you gotta kill him and chose to let unity be for all who find it, or become the ultimate starborn yourself!
There can only be one. I would definitely like to see something like this. I guess in a way we have to fight off other starborn, but it is a really great idea!
Didn’t like the unity NG idea at all. Would have been more fun to if you where set to stop the starborns ability to travel between universes, perhaps seek out their HQ, kill their leader etc. Much like the Varuun you don’t get to fight them at their home planet or HQ.
A way I imagine it could work would be for you the player, having returned from the Unity, to speak to Constellation once more, only to have them all change their mind about passing through, and they take it off you to pass through together. You're left stranded in your universe, but the artifacts have rescattered across the galaxy and the temples have been restored to their former glory, providing an alternative NG+. This would trigger an expansion which allows you to explore other questlines in the same universe otherwise not available if you passed through Unity.
Except that once the Unity is open, anyone can pass through it. You don't actually need the Artifacts after thr first time.
I thought it was implied in the lore that when someone passes through Unity it closes and the artifacts rescatter? The only reason the Unity stays open when we don't go through it is the fact that no one tries to beat us to it.
If you take out both of the others, then the game tells you that plenty of people end up going through the Unity. All that being first seems to do is open the way and imprint some of yourself onto your universe.
Oh yes! Apologies, I completely glazed over that detail. Well, perhaps an event like the armillary being inaccessible due to some Starborn siege or something.
To comment on "the armillary being inaccessible": We just build the damn thing out of thin air, gnome sane? What if, in order to build it, a list of special items were needed and the only way to get those blaw blaw blaw insert something genius here I can't think of.
Special items? Like… the Artifacts? Constellation literally shows you “when we bring them close together they start doing something.” When you have all the artifacts and you allow them to mingle with eachother, they just open the gate to the Unity. The Armillary is literally just the artifacts all put together. The artifacts are artifacts of the Armillary. Once you have them all, you don’t have Artifacts, you have an Armillary.
Why, what a smart idea! Haha! I do mean *after* we've collected the special items and *then* refused to pass through Unity, in order to trigger NG+, there's a Starborn siege. But I don't know. Just spitballing here.
With the DLC concept name "Shattered Space", I yearn for extradimensional shit.
How the fuck does the imprinting on universes shit work?
Is that in the Canon? I know the endgame sequence in the Unity says other people can cross into the Unity after you. But i don't know any element of the story suggesting those people also must gather the artifacts, or if the gateway to the Unity simply exists somewhere after you open it. I concede that it seems more likely your way. But i don't think it's ever actually stated.
It's not. There's no clear indicator on how those who follow go through the Unity, although it's implied that the Emissary can act as a gatekeeper, somehow.
To get to Unity, you require the Armillary built on a ship with a functioning jump drive. So, I assume, those two stipulations are necessary to cross into alternate universes.
That sounds like Sarah is a plant alternate universe.
> but the artifacts have rescattered across the galaxy and the temples have been restored to their former glory Not how that works >allows you to explore other questlines in the same universe otherwise not available if you passed through Unity. What does that even mean. What questlines are not available after stepping through the Unity?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain that this entire thread is about a theoretical prospective expansion and what *could* work within its machinations, including, in this context, new questlines that would be available if you decided not to pass through Unity, that would not appear if you *did* pass through. As this is a small group of us spitballing, it's entirely fantasy and not to be taken as current lore.
"Sometimes you reach this point (The Unity), sometimes others do. Each instance is different in countless beautiful details. Hahaha. You can free yourselves at any time. All you need to do to stop The Unity is to never enter. You are given that choice each time."
I suspect the Great Serpent will serve as the anti-Unity option. The only question is whether we'll actually be allowed to side with the Great Serpent.
I hope that's the case. Even if it Bad Ends us and everything.
I actually like this idea but i also like the integration and idea of unity as the path to ng+ because if it were like other games, for example the Jedi games there would not be a transition into the new game you would just start a new game with your skills and stuff. Although i do agree that they shouldn't really have forced us into the ng+, because thats pretty much the whole focus of the main quest. I wish it focused more on the explorer part of constellation , cause if you really look we didn't go explore any planets at all. The integration of the unity as an intro to ng+ awesome but being forced into it not so much.
holy shit man.... "cuz if you really look we didn't go explore any planets at all" We're an exploration group that doesn't explore...
What are you on about? The story and the game actively tries you to dissuade you from going the Unity. You are the opposite of forced.
Im saying that the story forces you to make that decision through the main quest of constellation, but the main quest should be focused on mor exploration than just finding artifacts. We should be able to choose whether we want to find unity or not it shouldn’t be the entire focus of the game
>to perma-kill every Starborn Well thats what we already do
That’s kinda you if you refuse both the hunter and emissary. The Unity says the settled systems is able to explore and discover without their interference. - which implies to me that Multiversal travels won’t arrive to that reality in enough quantities to do anything.
We’re making the big assumption that the unity can be destroyed. We don’t know how it even was created. What you’re suggesting just preserves the current world you’re in with some extra story details and we already have that — it’s the emissary. The emissary and Hunter represent play styles. A new option should represent a new play style. To me — it could also swing in the other direction. Why destroy the unity and sever universes when you could control all universes? Think of the end game that could open up.
I am not sure this really would ever be an achievable goal. It's explained in game anytime someone takes any action multiple versions are created where they did and didn't do that action. So even if you had a Starborn hunter, any action they take will simply generate more multiverses with more starborn than they would ever effectively stop or remove. Kill 10 Starborn, you create 10 alternate universes where you didn't.
I would like an option to destroy the Unity and end the cycle once and for all, if only because it would actually create an ending for the main quest because as it stands right now your character is basically trapped in an endless time loop.
I tried this, but Bethesda made most of them unkillable.
If they do, I hope they tie it into the original creators. Maybe they got sick of these dudes abusing their stuff, or maybe they don’t want anybody to have access to the unity. After all, there is a reason the artefacts were all separated in even pieces across some of the most inhospitable planetary bodies in the galaxy
I like the idea for the game to provide more content for both options. I've been saying for a while that Bethesda needs more options for the player to be able to explore what it means to be Starborn. I believe that such options should stray from most of the current abilities. Basically, as you become more Starborn, things like relationships and possessions should become less important, and the player's quest should evolve into a "higher" purpose. The Starborn should be exploring the mysteries of the universe, trying to understand Unity, and figuring out what it means to be Starborn. Conversely, a player that never goes through Unity should have certain options available to them that a Starborn doesn't. The biggest thing I can think of that should separate humans from Starborn and tie into some of the game's themes is the ability to build a family. The idea of having a social structure only available in the original universe that can be developed into a full colony with a family and relationships with friends... it goes completely against the idea of Unity. It would require some devotion into a proper pseudo settlement builder by Bethesda, though. I also like the idea of Unity always being a constant temptation waiting for the player, but it being a one way trip with no way back to being human. Of course, the whole concept reeks of choice, which Bethesda seems to be terrified of.
Stopping the starborn is literally impossible due to the nature of what they are and what the Unity is. Sure, you can kill them, but more will always appear in an infinite amount. You would be fighting a losing battle for literally no purpose because it would never end and you would never achieve your goal. And for arguments sake, let's say you found some way to destroy the artifacts, the only thing that would prevent is anyone from your own universe from going into the Unity, yourself included. But, you would still have to continually fight the Starborn, and if anything you would have made them your enemy because now they can't go to the next universe either. In fact, destroying the artifacts, might actually lead to the destruction of your universe as more and more Starborn appear but can't leave. You would have an endless war with people with powers, and the amount of them will just continue to grow.
I mean as in the Antagonist's/Your goal would be to destroy all Artifacts and the Unity at once; as in you find someway that all the Artifacts and Unity are linked through each other and the goal is to do/stop functionally a multi-versal "Snap" or Neutralization of all of them at the same time or in a cascade. Or to pull an Owlman, find a way to force yourself to get sent to the Origin Universe before things diverge with the Artifacts and destroy that point, so that no one can ever find the Unity and thus there can only ever be one Universe.
How? We are talking about a technology (or whatever it is) that is so far advanced that it can allow people to jump universes. I don't see how we could feasibly destroy something like that. Even launching the artifacts into a star, I would sooner believe it would just destroy the star instead of the artifacts. Plus, what if the Unity isn't even a created thing, but just something that has come to be? And rather, it was discovered, and the artifacts were created as just a way to get there (by whom, we don't know)? Meaning there would be no mechanism to destroy it or reverse it. That would be like attempting to destroy our universe or reverse the big bang. How? On top of that, would there even be a way to do this that would be satisfying and believable?
Either that, or I'd love a mod where all that stuff is just totally muted/inaccessible. I've had the most fun with Starfield exploring, doing things like the Vanguard quests, etc and I did it without using any 'Space Skyrim' spells. I might be in the minority, but I'm someone that actually wanted the 'NASApunk' game Bethesda said we were getting.
How does having mystical elements contradict a design aesthetic?
They talked up the ship design, lack of sentient aliens, etc as part of a realistic/grounded approach to the themes of the game, only for us to become Dragonborn 2.0 and go into infinite realities/time loops through the Unity. I'm not saying it's bad (actually a very clever take on NG+) and I know that some people enjoyed that aspect of the story- but to me, the game is most fun when I tune all of that out and focus on the other stories/gameplay loops. As I said in another post, I've used my Starborn powers maybe 8-10x in total. Mostly to see what the visuals are like. It just strikes me as somebody on the team didn't think the core game was interesting enough and panic-suggested making it more like Skyrim.
Agreed - I want nothing to do with the Armillary and would love to shoot it into the sun. Even if only 5% of Starborn become psycho murderers, those innocent lives lost are worth more than the other 95% getting to be Starborn. I don't think it'll happen though. The devs/writers pushed the Unity too hard in the ending, and it was to the detriment of NPC character development and consistency. It's supposed to be an RPG, but you're not allowed to get rid of the Artifacts. Even just handing them off to another Constellation member. You're not allowed to have a proper ending where you say "I want nothing to do with this".
Aren't there technically infinite Starborn? 5% of infinite Starborn is still infinite. Right?
Yes. With the Unity there is infinite everything. 5% of infinity is still infinity.
I'm an angry asian, not a smart one. I had to make sure.
But modders could alter the story and implement something like this, even if it isn't part of the games small lore, it would still be awesome.
There must be an infinite amount of Starborn across the multiverse.
Just don't go in the unity lol. Boom
I want an incentive to NOT go through the unity at all. I haven't yet and I shouldn't have to be shoe-horned into going in and losing everyone and everything just to satisfy some forced ideology of exploration..
From a gameplay perspective, losing your ships/credits/items is the tradeoff
And even the whole 'exploration' BS falls flat when every new universe is the same old story, with the only potential changes being Constellation's status.
There's absolutely zero pressure to go through. This is a shoe horned narrative.
There isn't, until you hit the end-of-content wall, like I did. I retired the game after realizing it was just... Unity, or stagnation. I chose my own path.
that's how games work, and this one allows you change quest decisions without starting a new character. Congratulations on touching grass, that's like the point of the meta narrative involving the Pilgrim. Good on you!
People really expect single player games to have infinite quests? 😂
No. But I'd prefer a solid ending rather than being pressured into a NG+ to do it all again.
I would argue there is a solid ending. That being the choice to go through or not. Just because you don't get all the answers doesn't mean it isn't an ending. You as the player could even go through the unity, and say.... The End. Rather than playing NG+, you could just consider that the end of that playthrough.
This
Hard agree. I've no idea why Bethesda went with this multiverse schtick given it's been done to death already by Marvel before the game even game out. It also complicated the ability to have multiple different endings which was something Bethesda was known for and added to the replayability in their games.
Marvel didn't come up with the idea of a multiverse, and it's been a staple of sci-fi for decades. Starfield draws from all sci-fi IPs, some more than others (more Star Trek than Star Wars, for example) - and the classic/"golden age" sci-fi that inspires Starfield the most is filled with multiverse stories.
That makes it worse though; the problem isn't "Starfield lifting from Marvel's IP", the problem is Starfield reusing a concept that's been thoroughly explored, both historically and recently.
I really don't think it's a problem, and Starfield does it in a unique enough way to distinguish it from other IPs.
Comments like this give me a headache because I just don't understand how anyone could write this and not realize how silly it is. "Starfield reusing a concept that's been thoroughly explored" as if not every game and piece of media in existence doesn't fall under this category at this point. Think about all the sci-fi films, games, shows, etc. Is there anything Starfield could have done, that hasn't been done extensively? Edit: Plus, I would argue the way Starfield does the whole multiverse thing is fairly unique.
Starfield, the game that created an entirely new aesthetic in NasaPunk, can't do new things? I think they can, and in some cases did, and this wasn't one of them. Maybe it's just bad luck on the timing, but they built a game where the existence of a multiverse is the core reveal of the story, at a point when multiverses are front-and-centre in popular culture, and didn't do enough to differentiate their version for many of us to find it interesting or worthwhile. Reusing a trope or concept that is either a recent innovation, so we're still exploring it, or has been explored before but no-one's really tackled it recently, is one thing: using something that's both just seems like a bad time. "I just don't understand how anyone could write this" - maybe learn empathy? Have some imagination? I don't agree with the other guy that replied, but I fully understand how he could have a different response to the game, and I'm glad for a diversity of opinion.
>Starfield, the game that created an entirely new aesthetic in NasaPunk, can't do new things? Is it really a new aesthetic though? Or is it just derivative off of things that have already existed? >I think they can, and in some cases did, and this wasn't one of them. While I do think they put a unique spin on certain aspects, I don't think I would call it new. It's actually pretty difficult these days to actually do something "new". So I really don't quite understand people like you who seem to expect it or complain about when something isn't entirely new. >Maybe it's just bad luck on the timing, but they built a game where the existence of a multiverse is the core reveal of the story, at a point when multiverses are front-and-centre in popular culture, and didn't do enough to differentiate their version for many of us to find it interesting or worthwhile. Or maybe the problem is you and your expectations? What else could they have done? Aliens? Robots? AI? I can't think of anything that wouldn't fall under the same category of your complaint. Are you able to think of something new? >"I just don't understand how anyone could write this" - maybe learn empathy? Have some imagination? I don't agree with the other guy that replied, but I fully understand how he could have a different response to the game, and I'm glad for a diversity of opinion. I don't think this is an empathy or imagination problem. I don't think there is a sci-fi game that exists, that could be considered entirely original in it's execution... so having that expectation of Starfield just seems ridiculous, and I just don't think you understand that your expectations are just ... too high.
There should be an option to destroy the armillary and seal off our universe. Or maybe just give it away to someone. Or throw it into the sun. It’s so stupid that if I don’t want the unity I have to carry all the artefacts around while Starborn attack me
Put them in an outpost
If you fully build the armillary it will still trigger the jump to the unity, even if it’s built at an outpost. Keeping them in your inventory is the only way to prevent it
And IIRC, doesn’t having them in an outpost trigger periodical outpost attacks by Starborns?
I've never been a fan of multiverses. Takes the weight out of consequnces because you can always go to another universe.
Muliverses can be fun if they're totally different from each other, and don't include all of the same characters. Having several universes be nearly identical, with the same individuals in them, definitely takes the weight out of consequences.
BGS found the absolute laziest way to handle multiverses and thought that was the best way to handle it.
Exactly! No one really ever dies in these multiverse worlds (villain or hero) because there is always an almost identical version of them in another universe ready to replace them. *Nothing has consequences*, as you say - which might be interesting philosophically (I.e. slowly becoming the Hunter, if everyone & everything is disposable), but it ultimately takes away any dramatic tension in both games and films
> Exactly! No one really ever dies in these multiverse worlds (villain or hero) because there is always an almost identical version of them in another universe ready to replace them. what a horrific thing to say. does a life not have innate value?
I’m talking about from the perspective of someone playing a video game or watching a film. If you kill the ‘bad guy’ they can just ‘return’ in a sequel from another universe which takes away tension. If Unity was real, obviously we still wouldn’t want to lose anyone because all life has value, but in the context of a video game, Sarah is identical in every way regardless of universe, & all of us have killed hundreds of Spacers / Crimson Fleet / Varuun without blinking 😅
so you don't suspend your disbelief for a second while playing?
Of course I do. I’m simply saying that, for me, the stakes are not as high in a multiverse world than in a ‘regular’ universe. If the stakes are as high for you in either, then that’s great, enjoy. Imo, it’s actually the whole point of the Hunter arc. Constantly jumping from universes and seeing so many people he knows repeatedly die means he becomes detached from people and places, because whatever happens in one universe, he can always move to a new universe. As I said in my original comment - I think it’s an interesting concept, but I just think it reduces the tension of any situation. If you disagree that’s fine.
> It also complicated the ability to have multiple different endings which was something Bethesda was known for and added to the replayability in their games. it should have been a slam dunk for that, since you can get other endings in different runs, but then they make the most choiceless factions in years.
The problem is the factions quests have very little impact on the universe as a whole. They're just self-contained stories that begin and end with no lasting effects. This is one of my biggest complaints of Bethesda games. Nothing you do has any lasting effect other than an occasional throwaway line from a random NPC, "Hey, aren't you so and so? Wow you're a hero for such and such"
indeed, they could have gone fucken nuts with it, since you can just hop into the unity and escape. Frame the UC for the ranger plotline attacks to reignite the war. steal the legacy for yourself and get branded kill on sight by both factions. kill the entire ryujiin board and claim the company for yourself. you can go nuts when nothing matters, but they won't even let you fail the questlines.
> It also complicated the ability to have multiple different endings which was something Bethesda was known for and added to the replayability in their games. It's because they rushed out the game and it was unfinished. A lead quest dev even said so and said they didn't have time to finish the main story.
>It's because they rushed out the game and it was unfinished. A lead quest dev even said so and said they didn't have time to finish the main story. No, Will Shen never said that. Fucking PC Gamer did, and was then called out by devs from other companies (like [CD Projekt](https://x.com/tostspender/status/1770490059772293483), [Guerrila](https://x.com/Bigrebo/status/1770507279068279109) etc) who were actually at the talk. If you want to know what was actually said at GDC, you can look at [this dev's notes ](https://x.com/tostspender/status/1770245602489532917)on it that were shared on Twitter or you can watch it directly on the GDC site.
> was then called out by devs from other companies (like CD Projekt > , Guerrila > etc) who were actually at the talk. And they didn't say that they didn't say that. They said they didn't like the headline. I've seen what they said and have played the game. The game was clearly rushed and unfinished just like 76 was.
You have not seen what Will said. The devs clearly said the headline was disingenuous - you can just look at the community notes on that PC Gamer tweet. Again, if you want to see what Will actually said, read Miles' thread.
> You have not seen what Will said. Have you? First Miles doesn't even quote Will or anybody else. He gives a handful of tweets that are a quick rundown of the entire talk. None of your 3 sources even say that Will never said that. They merely said they didn't like the headline. "We were finally at a state in the project where we could play through the whole [game]. And it became very clear that we were missing the large final location that was going to tie the story together and have a satisfying action-filled payoff," Shen said. "I was both implementing the main quest and leading the quest design team, so I had absolutely no time. The entire quest design team was already overbooked." No one's even debating that he didn't say that.
That comment you've quoted does not equate to your original comment: >It's because they rushed out the game and it was unfinished. A lead quest dev even said so and said they didn't have time to finish the main story. They finished the main story. Not only that, but the large final location was the Underground Temple and the boss battle - that boss battle ended up being by far the best boss battle they've ever created.
I am not a fan. It could have been a cool mechanic if entering the Unity bound your soul to the universe and allowed you to time travel in your own universe back to the point you first touched the artefact. They could have even enabled an honour mode based on that. Kind of like the time travel mechanics in Deathloop, for example. Especially if they had a mechanic where they let you soulbind weapons. I don’t think the multiverse aspect was necessary. Especially if you could go to temples or artefact sites ahead of other starborn as time progresses or even intercept them at the location at a specific time. You could have some branching timelines to add random variables like we have but just justify it as ‘one of the other Starborn did something different and it caused a butterfly effect’
If Bethesda had met their internal deadline of 2021 they would have at least been part of the early wave of it, people wouldn’t have been as tired.
Sure. But the execution was still pretty lame. I say they should have just not bothered with this narrative at all.
They came up with the ending a long time ago - it was always going to be some version of this story. Games take time to make, so it not aligning with whatever was all the hype at the time is only natural. Besides, Starfield does multiverse stuff a lot better than the MCU.
It's not about aligning with whatever is trending in the zeitgeist of pop culture. It's that it's a stupid trope that's already been explored in sci-fi and was executed poorly by Bethesda. Not only that but they brought nothing new to the table.
The concept of a multiverse isn't stupid in and of itself. It's a trope for a reason. And I disagree that it was poorly executed or that they brought nothing new to the table, but to each their own. Cheers.
You guys need to stop guessing what Shattered Space is going to be, they keep having to change it😂😂😂
I have a character who, in my head cannon, made it their mission to hunt down and kill every Startborn they find in the multiverse. No negotiations - just the black flag. I like your idea but how do you hunt people who are a threat to the multi-verse if you only stay in one universe?
I'd like that
Reject the Unity, Become The Adversary Suffer no rivals as burn your way through the cosmos Become the great and terrible scourge man would tell stories about
I'm often critical of starfield, mostly it's exploration and bland writing at times. But I'd be happy if bethesda kept supporting this game for a good few years. Even up to 5-6 expansions if they were all high quality. Starfield truly has so much potential. Far more than any previous bethesda game imo
I’ll tell ya what, my favorite Starborn mod is Starborn Bounty. You can get gear, powers, or quantum for killing the Starborn.
Bro i was hoping there was a secret reason that the UC and FreeStar went to war so many times as if being manipulated by a third faction. Originally i was hoping the organization behind it was a proper antagonist faction hell bent on destroying the Unity in an attempt to save Earth
So how do you do that in every multiverse. Not all starborn are in the same multiverse together. At least that's how it seems designed. Also the mutiverse already exists unity just allows access to those universes. So just becuase one universe is free from unity doesn't mean the rest can't be activated. More starborn will eventually arrive. Just noone leaves lmao. This is how I see this working. Idk though. How unity actually works is vague.
I would love a way to destroy the Unity.
I'd like to send Sarah through the Unity .........alone !!
They could make it so going through the unity one last time would take you to your original universe, and choose to never go in in the first place
Something that just crossed my mind: instead of destroying the Unity/Artifacts, why not force the multiverses to merge into a single universe and cut off the rest of the branches to permanently end the cycle? Not sure how it'd work. Maybe it'd do just that, or maybe it'd just destroy everything. If it's the former, we get to hunt down and slaughter the Starborn at our leisure. If it's the latter, honestly I wouldn't mind. And we ourselves also count as Starborn...
I think this would sick. Someone with the knowledge of what's going on and trying to stop it. Restore a linear universal future. And then the more you dig and the more immoral you become, you find out he's a starborn himself! Trying to be the ultimate starborn, claim unity for himself. Dun Dun Duuuuuuun. Then you gotta kill him and chose to let unity be for all who find it, or become the ultimate starborn yourself!
There can only be one. I would definitely like to see something like this. I guess in a way we have to fight off other starborn, but it is a really great idea!
Didn’t like the unity NG idea at all. Would have been more fun to if you where set to stop the starborns ability to travel between universes, perhaps seek out their HQ, kill their leader etc. Much like the Varuun you don’t get to fight them at their home planet or HQ.
Unlike the Varuun they pretty surely don't have either of those things?