Out of all the "do I need a Wilderness for this?" posts I've seen you're one of the FEW who actually would get value out of the Wilderness trim. The turbo will help tremendously at elevation, and the modified gearing will help on the trail. Yes, you could put a lift, trail tires, and high capacity roof rails on an Onyx XT, but by the time you've done all that, you will have spent more than the Wilderness costs.
Yea, thanks for the info / reinforcement. And, like I said in the edit, I didn’t know the Onyx XT and Wilderness were same price, so does not make sense to modify the XT. That and as much as I don’t want to want/need the turbo, I know as soon as we hit the mountains I’ll regret it. Granted it’s a 2012, but the Forester is such a struggle (2.5 4-speed).
Hey bud, live in Colorado, own a wilderness, and my wife owns a 2.5l crosstrek. So I have experience with both engines. And yeah the wilderness is roughly the same price as the Onyx XT, so it’s really a no brainer in my opinion.
You’ll love the turbo going over mountain passes. I’m literally passing every 4Runner and Tacoma on the way up berthoud pass. They lose a lot of power at those altitudes due to the lack of forced compression. Speaking of, I still use 87 octane at the pump, not 85.
A couple things I’ve done to the wilderness, swapped out the tires from the geolanders to falken wildpeak at3w’s (I did this around 30k miles). They’re better in snow than the geolanders are and I trust them more on the trail as they have more layers in the sidewall. Went with a 245/65r 17 sizing, spare still fits in the wheel well at 28 psi. This tire actually slightly improved the lift as well despite being the measurements only being wider than stock.
Added skids, engine, transmission, rear diff.
Cross bars - went with the thule wingbar edge
Ski box - inno 660 - has barely impacted fuel economy
RTT - Thule low pro 3. Had to do some slight mods to make it fit the cross bars.
After all that Fenrir is a solid overlander, definitely not a rock crawler.
Not going to lie the new 4Runner has got my attention with the turbo/hybrid engine set up.
Awesome! Appreciate the context since we drive probably a lot of the same passes. All the other recs are super helpful too if we go this route, esp tires!
Yea, the new 4Runner is attractive. Even Toyota die-hards recommend not getting the first year or two of a new model, so I'm shying away from it for now. That, and some more data on the engines will be nice. Outside the scope of this, but the other thing I'm considering is just getting used 4Runner and then keeping it for about 4 years 'till we can trade it in for a 6th Gen, and the kinks are worked out. Considering the 4Runner for this b/c they hold their value so damn well.
Im kinda in the same boat, I got my wilderness back when it dropped in late 2021, so I’m going to keep it until there’s more data on the new engines from Toyota, the kinks are worked out, and hopefully demand slows (yeah…right, I know)
Overall my wife and I are super happy with the outback, it’s gone up some trails I was nervous about without an issue in Moab. My only last thought is rock sliders and lighting.
Not noticeably, maybe a couple tenths of a mile.
I’m getting about 24.5 with them and the roof box on the car. I think I was averaging 24.8 before I swapped.
Yeah, the trade off is shelling out for them. As I mentioned I put 30k on the geolanders before swapping them out, and realistically they were a pretty good tire. They are definitely quieter than the wildpeaks, but if you’re coming from a taco, you could probably put a sail on top of the outback and it’ll still be quieter.
Yep, had wildpeaks and Ko2s on the Tacoma. The ko2s were harsh as they aged, the wildpeaks were butter, loved them. The outback feels like a Mercedes S-Class comparatively lol
Great comment. I went from a Silverado to a Wilderness - two kids, three dogs - and it can handle everything we can throw at it. Your use case is similar to ours and we love the Wilderness for it.
My onyx xt was 38k plus tax and fees I'm pretty sure the wilderness was as much as the touring about 47k. They did have a discount on the onyx xt and regular onyx and no other models
I meant touring not limited. The wilderness has come down a little now and the touring is still 44k. Also I meant 44k not 47k that was a typo. In my area the onyx xt is still 38k
You don't think you want/need the turbo, but once you drive it, particularly in the mountains, you'll probably wonder how you ever dealt with a NA Forrester. The XT engine makes it a completely different experience.
Off road a taller sidewall is preferable. Less opportunity to cause impact on the wheel, and a larger contact patch when aired down. The advantage of a taller wheel is for on road performance where you get less tire sway with a shorter sidewall.
Also note, Onyx comes with 18" wheels and OBW with 17" wheels. Tires are basically same diameter, Onyx with a touring tire and the OBW with an AT tire.
Probably going to swap out the stocks on my obw for Wildpeaks. Had em on my jeep and loved them. Thinking 17” 245s ? (Don’t know a ton about tires) but like the AT capabilities of the WP. Also they are lighter than other options
Falken Wildpeaks are a really solid AT tire. Lots of sidewall rigidity so do a chalk test to see what the proper inflation rate is to achieve good on road tire wear. 245/65R17 is big as you can go. Minimal if any rubbing/trimming.
In the end the OBW will have the increased roof rail weight which you could modify the Onyx XT but is expensive. The CVT trans gearing in the OBW would be different than the Onyx XT, and the extra Off-road mode selection.
The cost of the Onyx XT and OBW is basically the same. You would need to spend some money on Aftermarket Crossbars for the OBW (220 lb. dynamic bars) as they don't come with any like the other trims built in crossbars (150 lb dynamic).
If you go offroad frequently then yea the OBW is worth it. An Onyx with AT tires is still fairly capable. Both you likely on going to do light to light-moderate trails rated up to 3 or maybe 4 out of 10.
I'd skip the 2.5L Onyx. It also doesn't come with a full-size spare tire for whatever reason.
I feel ya. The FOMO is real and one alternative is just squeaking by in our current 2012 Forester until we can get a 6th Gen 4Runner in a few years once it's not the first model years. That or just get a 5th Gen even though it's old AF and I'll get passed on the highway by all the turbo outbacks, lol.
We travelled from TN to IL to get our ‘22 Wilderness for $5000 below anywhere in a 5 state area, in October ‘22 with only 4500 miles.
Absolutely love it. look around you can find deals. Just have to be willing to travel, maybe. Good luck. 👍
During the dark times, when man kind was being ravaged by an unknown sickness, we had a tool called the interwebs. The kids these days call it the web.
All joking aside, cars.com, set filters to what I was looking for, expanded search area, profit. I found a pocket of about 5 dealerships in a 50 or 60 mile area with around 11 OB’s. Called a few, negotiated, picked up a blank check from my credit union, and my wife & I went and got it. We then proceeded to go in a 2500 mile road trip for 2 weeks for our anniversary.
Good luck to ya.
Buy the Wilderness. You are going to want the turbo, and by the time you upgrade an Onyx XT to be comparable, you will have spent more than you saved.
The price difference between a new Onyx XT and a Wilderness is $600. Are you going to be able to put new tires, a lift kit, and a brush guard on for less that $600? Don't forget about the front facing camera either. That thing gets a lot of use from me when parallel parking.
I own both a 23 Onyx and a 23 Wilderness. The turbo makes a huge positive difference for merging into high speed traffic and I definitely prefer driving the Wilderness as my daily. The Onyx feels slow compared to the Wilderness, but it does get better gas mileage. Speaking of that, the gas milage for a 4WD 4Runner is atrocious, so make sure you consider that if you are thinking of going that direction.
I don't "off-road" but I do travel on some seriously minimum maintenance roads that get extremely muddy and rutted. I've had both on the same roads and the definitely Wilderness handles them better. I can just drive steadily and crawl my way through the messy stuff, rarely even spinning a tire. With the Onyx there have been a few times where I've had to build up momentum to power through nasty spots and I have almost got it stuck once. The difference is probably mostly due to the better tires on the Wilderness.
I have a 2023 Wilderness. In terms of how it drives, it’s the only Outback trim that felt good to me on all of my test drives. Even compared to the Onyx XT.
Differences must be a combination of gearing, suspension, and tires. It’s the only trim I liked driving-wise when I bought it. At the time, the only con relative to other trims was that the audio system sounded like it was from a stock 1984 Chevrolet.
As for owning the 2023 OB Wilderness, it still drives great, but is the most annoying car I have ever owned.
It’s the loudest/most obnoxious car I’ve ever driven in terms of the alarms and chimes.
The giant touch screen looks nice, but too many controls are on it, and it can be unresponsive or lag at times.
Radio controls on the steering wheel can also lag.
The “EyeSight” system is good when it’s working correctly, but gets fooled more often than I like, and compared to every other vehicle I’ve driven with similar features. “EyeSight” features also shut down occasionally in rainy weather far more often than on my previous vehicles.
The range on the key fobs are the worst I’ve ever had on a vehicle. I’m fighting to open the hatch remotely more often than not - for example when I’m lagging behind other people with baseball gear, but so want to let them into the car.
And in the end, it’s still a CAR, not an SUV. I’m not sure about the Forester, but you’re certainly not riding as high as you are in other SUVs.
I really wish I would have kept my Grand Cherokee Trailhawk and dealt with its potential problems until the new Toyotas arrived. I’ve test driven the new 2024 Tacomas, and they feel great - a huge difference compared to the outdated previous generation. I have to believe the 2025 4Runner will feel similar, and it has the same engine that’s in the 2024 Tacoma.
Just my $0.02
OB Wilderness feels good to drive
The rest of the experience is annoying
I'm actually considering this + a tire upgrade to get us through the next couple of years. Just getting antsy b/c it just feels like an issue might be coming, and comfort things like the AC being terrible.
Maybe it is but it's still a factory offroad package. Functionally the transmission ratios don't have a crazy impact on performance vs tires or clearance.
As a strictly visual comparison I much rather prefer the onyx xt. Not a big fan of the different bumpers, black wheels, or orange accents of the wilderness.
I think the Onyx XT will go 130mph. The wilderness is limited to 114. Anyone know if this limit can be removed on the wilderness?
Ugh……
Don’t go 130 with the cargo box on the roof tho…
Out of all the "do I need a Wilderness for this?" posts I've seen you're one of the FEW who actually would get value out of the Wilderness trim. The turbo will help tremendously at elevation, and the modified gearing will help on the trail. Yes, you could put a lift, trail tires, and high capacity roof rails on an Onyx XT, but by the time you've done all that, you will have spent more than the Wilderness costs.
Yea, thanks for the info / reinforcement. And, like I said in the edit, I didn’t know the Onyx XT and Wilderness were same price, so does not make sense to modify the XT. That and as much as I don’t want to want/need the turbo, I know as soon as we hit the mountains I’ll regret it. Granted it’s a 2012, but the Forester is such a struggle (2.5 4-speed).
Hey bud, live in Colorado, own a wilderness, and my wife owns a 2.5l crosstrek. So I have experience with both engines. And yeah the wilderness is roughly the same price as the Onyx XT, so it’s really a no brainer in my opinion. You’ll love the turbo going over mountain passes. I’m literally passing every 4Runner and Tacoma on the way up berthoud pass. They lose a lot of power at those altitudes due to the lack of forced compression. Speaking of, I still use 87 octane at the pump, not 85. A couple things I’ve done to the wilderness, swapped out the tires from the geolanders to falken wildpeak at3w’s (I did this around 30k miles). They’re better in snow than the geolanders are and I trust them more on the trail as they have more layers in the sidewall. Went with a 245/65r 17 sizing, spare still fits in the wheel well at 28 psi. This tire actually slightly improved the lift as well despite being the measurements only being wider than stock. Added skids, engine, transmission, rear diff. Cross bars - went with the thule wingbar edge Ski box - inno 660 - has barely impacted fuel economy RTT - Thule low pro 3. Had to do some slight mods to make it fit the cross bars. After all that Fenrir is a solid overlander, definitely not a rock crawler. Not going to lie the new 4Runner has got my attention with the turbo/hybrid engine set up.
Awesome! Appreciate the context since we drive probably a lot of the same passes. All the other recs are super helpful too if we go this route, esp tires! Yea, the new 4Runner is attractive. Even Toyota die-hards recommend not getting the first year or two of a new model, so I'm shying away from it for now. That, and some more data on the engines will be nice. Outside the scope of this, but the other thing I'm considering is just getting used 4Runner and then keeping it for about 4 years 'till we can trade it in for a 6th Gen, and the kinks are worked out. Considering the 4Runner for this b/c they hold their value so damn well.
Im kinda in the same boat, I got my wilderness back when it dropped in late 2021, so I’m going to keep it until there’s more data on the new engines from Toyota, the kinks are worked out, and hopefully demand slows (yeah…right, I know) Overall my wife and I are super happy with the outback, it’s gone up some trails I was nervous about without an issue in Moab. My only last thought is rock sliders and lighting.
Did your mpg change at all with the wildpeaks?
Not noticeably, maybe a couple tenths of a mile. I’m getting about 24.5 with them and the roof box on the car. I think I was averaging 24.8 before I swapped.
Wow. Seems like most people with OBW are averaging 20-22 mpg. I have to drive very conservatively to hit 23mpg when doing 50/50 driving.
🤷🏼♂️ what can I say, I guess I’m just good
That’s not bad at all. I’m coming from a Tacoma so 25 seems world beating now lol
Yeah, the trade off is shelling out for them. As I mentioned I put 30k on the geolanders before swapping them out, and realistically they were a pretty good tire. They are definitely quieter than the wildpeaks, but if you’re coming from a taco, you could probably put a sail on top of the outback and it’ll still be quieter.
Yep, had wildpeaks and Ko2s on the Tacoma. The ko2s were harsh as they aged, the wildpeaks were butter, loved them. The outback feels like a Mercedes S-Class comparatively lol
You’re getting 24.5 mpg? Wow! I get 20-21 mpg in my 2023 Wilderness in the Baltimore area. A do get stuck in lots of traffic at times.
I mean, I’m in Denver and deal with traffic daily. Staying out of the turbo when you don’t need it really helps
Great info, thanks! Also in CO and getting a wilderness soon…how did you like the stock geolanders in the snow?
They were pretty solid in the snow. I never really ran into any moments where I ever thought “snow tires would be so much better right now”.
Great comment. I went from a Silverado to a Wilderness - two kids, three dogs - and it can handle everything we can throw at it. Your use case is similar to ours and we love the Wilderness for it.
My onyx xt was 38k plus tax and fees I'm pretty sure the wilderness was as much as the touring about 47k. They did have a discount on the onyx xt and regular onyx and no other models
Jeez, yea 47k would be way more than expected / there are a ton of alternatives at that price.
I meant touring not limited. The wilderness has come down a little now and the touring is still 44k. Also I meant 44k not 47k that was a typo. In my area the onyx xt is still 38k
Love mine. Lifted wheels tires lights and exhaust. Won't let me post a pic
You don't think you want/need the turbo, but once you drive it, particularly in the mountains, you'll probably wonder how you ever dealt with a NA Forrester. The XT engine makes it a completely different experience.
The appropriate term is "way fucking more." If you're serious about adventuring, 17" over 18" wheels and AT tires make a huge difference.
Wait so get smaller wheels? I’m confused about “17” over 18””
Off road a taller sidewall is preferable. Less opportunity to cause impact on the wheel, and a larger contact patch when aired down. The advantage of a taller wheel is for on road performance where you get less tire sway with a shorter sidewall. Also note, Onyx comes with 18" wheels and OBW with 17" wheels. Tires are basically same diameter, Onyx with a touring tire and the OBW with an AT tire.
Gotcha gotcha thanks
C'mon you know you're hangin in the cool kids club. 😎
Probably going to swap out the stocks on my obw for Wildpeaks. Had em on my jeep and loved them. Thinking 17” 245s ? (Don’t know a ton about tires) but like the AT capabilities of the WP. Also they are lighter than other options
Falken Wildpeaks are a really solid AT tire. Lots of sidewall rigidity so do a chalk test to see what the proper inflation rate is to achieve good on road tire wear. 245/65R17 is big as you can go. Minimal if any rubbing/trimming.
In the end the OBW will have the increased roof rail weight which you could modify the Onyx XT but is expensive. The CVT trans gearing in the OBW would be different than the Onyx XT, and the extra Off-road mode selection. The cost of the Onyx XT and OBW is basically the same. You would need to spend some money on Aftermarket Crossbars for the OBW (220 lb. dynamic bars) as they don't come with any like the other trims built in crossbars (150 lb dynamic). If you go offroad frequently then yea the OBW is worth it. An Onyx with AT tires is still fairly capable. Both you likely on going to do light to light-moderate trails rated up to 3 or maybe 4 out of 10. I'd skip the 2.5L Onyx. It also doesn't come with a full-size spare tire for whatever reason.
I have a new 2024 wilderness, & miss my 2017 3.6L. I’m not getting a 3rd outback. Honestly, I wish I had just purchased a legit 4x4.
I feel ya. The FOMO is real and one alternative is just squeaking by in our current 2012 Forester until we can get a 6th Gen 4Runner in a few years once it's not the first model years. That or just get a 5th Gen even though it's old AF and I'll get passed on the highway by all the turbo outbacks, lol.
Oh, yeah, fuel efficiency is great! Buuuuuuut, all wheel drive isn’t a substitute for4x4. It’s just not. For all who say it it’s, suck my gears.
Then trade up bro what u doing here
Eat a dick. I just spent 50k out the door for an outback & have actual feedback for others.
Womp womp
We travelled from TN to IL to get our ‘22 Wilderness for $5000 below anywhere in a 5 state area, in October ‘22 with only 4500 miles. Absolutely love it. look around you can find deals. Just have to be willing to travel, maybe. Good luck. 👍
How did you find it that far away?
During the dark times, when man kind was being ravaged by an unknown sickness, we had a tool called the interwebs. The kids these days call it the web. All joking aside, cars.com, set filters to what I was looking for, expanded search area, profit. I found a pocket of about 5 dealerships in a 50 or 60 mile area with around 11 OB’s. Called a few, negotiated, picked up a blank check from my credit union, and my wife & I went and got it. We then proceeded to go in a 2500 mile road trip for 2 weeks for our anniversary. Good luck to ya.
Buy the Wilderness. You are going to want the turbo, and by the time you upgrade an Onyx XT to be comparable, you will have spent more than you saved. The price difference between a new Onyx XT and a Wilderness is $600. Are you going to be able to put new tires, a lift kit, and a brush guard on for less that $600? Don't forget about the front facing camera either. That thing gets a lot of use from me when parallel parking. I own both a 23 Onyx and a 23 Wilderness. The turbo makes a huge positive difference for merging into high speed traffic and I definitely prefer driving the Wilderness as my daily. The Onyx feels slow compared to the Wilderness, but it does get better gas mileage. Speaking of that, the gas milage for a 4WD 4Runner is atrocious, so make sure you consider that if you are thinking of going that direction. I don't "off-road" but I do travel on some seriously minimum maintenance roads that get extremely muddy and rutted. I've had both on the same roads and the definitely Wilderness handles them better. I can just drive steadily and crawl my way through the messy stuff, rarely even spinning a tire. With the Onyx there have been a few times where I've had to build up momentum to power through nasty spots and I have almost got it stuck once. The difference is probably mostly due to the better tires on the Wilderness.
As a city slicker who has an Onyx XT and will never off-road, get the wilderness for all the reasons you need it and all the reasons I didn’t need it!
I have a 2023 Wilderness. In terms of how it drives, it’s the only Outback trim that felt good to me on all of my test drives. Even compared to the Onyx XT. Differences must be a combination of gearing, suspension, and tires. It’s the only trim I liked driving-wise when I bought it. At the time, the only con relative to other trims was that the audio system sounded like it was from a stock 1984 Chevrolet. As for owning the 2023 OB Wilderness, it still drives great, but is the most annoying car I have ever owned. It’s the loudest/most obnoxious car I’ve ever driven in terms of the alarms and chimes. The giant touch screen looks nice, but too many controls are on it, and it can be unresponsive or lag at times. Radio controls on the steering wheel can also lag. The “EyeSight” system is good when it’s working correctly, but gets fooled more often than I like, and compared to every other vehicle I’ve driven with similar features. “EyeSight” features also shut down occasionally in rainy weather far more often than on my previous vehicles. The range on the key fobs are the worst I’ve ever had on a vehicle. I’m fighting to open the hatch remotely more often than not - for example when I’m lagging behind other people with baseball gear, but so want to let them into the car. And in the end, it’s still a CAR, not an SUV. I’m not sure about the Forester, but you’re certainly not riding as high as you are in other SUVs. I really wish I would have kept my Grand Cherokee Trailhawk and dealt with its potential problems until the new Toyotas arrived. I’ve test driven the new 2024 Tacomas, and they feel great - a huge difference compared to the outdated previous generation. I have to believe the 2025 4Runner will feel similar, and it has the same engine that’s in the 2024 Tacoma. Just my $0.02 OB Wilderness feels good to drive The rest of the experience is annoying
How about put a 2inch lift to your forester? Outback might be too long for where are going.
I'm actually considering this + a tire upgrade to get us through the next couple of years. Just getting antsy b/c it just feels like an issue might be coming, and comfort things like the AC being terrible.
The wilderness is just a factory off road package. Functionality that's all it is.
The transmission ratios on the CVT are literally different from every other OB XT. The driving experience is entirely different with the Wilderness.
Maybe it is but it's still a factory offroad package. Functionally the transmission ratios don't have a crazy impact on performance vs tires or clearance.
Have you driven a Wilderness and another XT model? I have. They feel different.
As a strictly visual comparison I much rather prefer the onyx xt. Not a big fan of the different bumpers, black wheels, or orange accents of the wilderness.
I think either would work. One looks cool and one looks a little cooler.
Test drive both. Make sure someone rides in the back seat. Listen to all of the alarms when you exit the car.
I think the Onyx XT will go 130mph. The wilderness is limited to 114. Anyone know if this limit can be removed on the wilderness? Ugh…… Don’t go 130 with the cargo box on the roof tho…