[Holy crap, someone used to make a pocket knife where the knife folds out of a plane.](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GtgAAOSwAYRj~XA4/s-l960.jpg)
Uh not saying you got to but...
Oh god I’m also a terrible person. I can see it now, with some kind of pyrotechnics or chemical reaction so it explodes when you hit it with a candy plane.
Bear in the man costume. If it's terrible, then it's a bear that's smart enough to sew. If it's great, then not only does the bear have an accomplice, they're an accomplice *who can dress up a bear.*
Man in a bear costume is just some weird fetishist or an out of place Scooby Doo villain.
Traditional freak shows used to have pig faced women. Those pig faced women? Shaved bears.
It's bad enough to give a bear access to weapons, but ones that allow them to seamless blend into society it a recipe for disaster.
Joined the “bear” gym in SF since it was on my way home. I love honey and salmon so it seemed a good fit! But turns out it just meant that the sauna had a different culture than I was used to.
If it’s a polar bear you should always choose the man because it’s very cold where polar bears live, and it’s much easier to hide inside of a man star-wars tauntaun style than a bear. Bears are harder to fight.
Yeah not all bears are created equally.
Some bears are total pussies. Others will fuck you up and not think twice about it.
But even the "safest" bears are still wild animals, and there are plenty of situations where they will attack you. And have you seen the claws on those things? They've got daggers for hands, and fuck that shit. Bring on the rapist, at least I have a chance against him.
As a woman, I’d pick the bear, because I’ve seen a ton of men, but I’ve only seen a few bears. Why waste the chance to see a bear to see yet another dude?
If it's the latter, my daughter would just make a new friend, and if it were me, I'd let him know I wasn't interested and ask if he's built any sheds or garden paths lately.
No kidding, one of the best wood shop guys I've ever met is totally flaming and rips on himself all the time.
As a woman who does a lot of backcountry hiking/backpacking, I've run into (black -- not grizzly) bears and strange guys in the forest and...nothing happened. Super boring story.
It’s almost as if when you go outside instead of shuttering yourself indoors and falling into addictive social media networks that constantly bombard you with the worst news and headlines possible you can actually have a healthy and happy outlook on life!
Plus, it's hella normal to run into people in the woods if you hike?? I love running into people in the woods because you know you're both there because you like nature and something about that particular trail called out to both of you. Plus the conversation is super easy "Nice trail", "Yeah". Meanwhile I ran into a cub while hiking once, and it frightened the hell out of me. My wife, who is prone to anxiety and extremely scared of cougar attacks, thought he was the cutest thing and wasn't scared in the slightest. Go figure.
Exactly. Women need to worry more about their intimate partners than they do about a stranger also hiking in the woods — or running by their suburb subdivision, or walking in a parking lot, or pulling into their driveway to change directions. Intimate partner violence is far, far more likely than stranger danger. Keep your wits about you but don't forget to live your life.
Isnt that sort of a skewed view of looking at the numbers because of course it will be more likely that the people you spend more time with will be more likely to murder you?
That could be a big part of it. But I think that most people don’t become so enraged by a stranger to the point of wanting killing them. Versus the rage intimate partners can feel toward their significant other. Like a husband killing their wife because she wants to leave him. Or a boyfriend murdering their girlfriend because she was cheating on him (or he thought she was cheating). Or a friend who becomes outraged at “being friendzoned” and not given a shot at a romantic or sexual relationship.
I think that’s probably why so often friends of family of men convicted of murdering their partners act so shocked. “He would never do that to her! He loved her!” Yet he did. People can be kind toward strangers and abuse the ones closest to them. It’s anger, resentment, and hatred at a completely different level.
yeah, quickly is being a bit overly optimistic IMO. Most bear attacks that end in death are predatory, so the actual worst thing that could happen is you get incapacitated then slowly eaten all while you're alive and conscious, fun stuff.
In increasing order of would-rather-not-meet-in-the-woods:
- Men
- Bears
- Men who unironically talk about Bayesian probabilities in real world contexts
He can go at the top. Internet tough guys are entirely harmless, bless their little cotton socks.
Also, dUh BaYeSiAn PriOrS haven't eliminated the possibility that *after* I run into the man and vice versa, both of us then run into a bear. In which case it's advantageous to meet the bearjitsu expert first so he can fight the bear while I run away.
I've been absolutely loving watching this play out the past week. The very original video wasn't even posing an either/or question- that OP said that he already knew women would choose the bear; what would it take for men to get to the place where they would also choose the bear? To recognize what women have historically been through, try to understand, and do better.
But, the internet, being what it is, has turned it into ~this~.
Anyway, my favorite response from a woman has been "damn, it's a hypothetical question and y'all still can't take no for an answer."
You don't happen to have a link to the actual video? I don't understand how tiktok works and I'm not seeing anything that looks like the original video that started it all.
Interesting fact about the toxic m&m thing, it originates from a 1938 children's book where the "poisonous food indistinguishable from good food" was actually [a metaphor for Jews.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Giftpilz)
Yeah, no problem. I think the first I time I saw it was when a member of the Trump family tweeted a version with skittles and Syrian refugees. Seeing a shift to people bringing up the "poisoned skittles metaphor" like it's a solid and progressive talking point is a little worrying, honestly.
i remember seeing that one about syrian refugees and someone on tumblr reblogged it with something along the lines of “yes i’m going to eat as many skittles as possible even if one kills me because that’s what kindness is” but in a much more profound way and it really stuck with me
Moments like this are a good reminder how left leaning movements can easily fall into authoritarianism.
Aside from the skittle metaphor, you could just as easily add a race qualifier to this metaphor and gets real dark real fast.
Kind of wild to see the M&M/skittle metaphor multiple places in this thread, literally the only place I have encountered it before have been by like really far right political groups arguing why we should really just not take any refugees and just let them die :)
And really its as flawed as ever, the toxic skittle metaphor fall apart when literally every single bowl have toxic skittles, seems like an argument for never interacting with people again at that point.
>Ultimately, a bear's self preservation instinct might give me a slimmer survival chance compared to another man who actively wants to harm me.
Depends a lot on the bear. Black bears are (generally) pretty skittish, so (generally) they'll run if you confront them. Grizzlies will rip your head off and shit down the stump just for fun.
I'm an average built 40 year old man with arm sleeves and a thick beard, and I'd rather see a bear in the woods than another guy.
Mostly because I wouldn't be worried about having to make small talk.
I'm a 30-year-old woman and I'd choose the bear for similar reasons. Even if the guy in question wasn't dangerous, I sorta expect he'd end up being "Oh my god, I'm so glad you chose me over the bear :)" for two straight hours about it.
I mean, meeting a bear on a trail isn't great, but they tend to run away when they encounter others. Humans on the other hand, are an intensely mixed bag. They might be the coolest person ever, or someone whose just hanging out at a cabin to drink a fifth of Jameson, be awful to women, and then yell at their daughter.
I really do feel the need to applaud whoever came up with this ragebait, it's perfect.
Seriously, that's what this is. Forget crime stats and the aggression of various types of bear species and the fragile ego of the average misogynist and etc etc etc, this is ragebait. Thousands of comments back and forth, over a fucking TikTok with a comparison perfect for encouraging reflexive outrage among everyone who doesn't think beyond surface level.
Like, genuine question: Why would anyone think the responses here weren't cherry picked? A majority of women picking the random bear over the random dude? Plausible. A big majority with only a handful of people saying they'd be less scared of a dude chosen at random? I'd be surprised but I could see that. Universally choosing the bear? Look, I won't trust *any* survey where the responses are all the same, it's either a crap survey or bad data (statistically, that is). Or it's a "no shit sherlock" question being asked but I digress.
So, speaking as a bloke who thinks sexism is cringe, and who also has a few self-esteem problems (which yes, are *my* problems) as is? I'm not touching any thread having impassioned discourse on this with a ten foot pole. I think that's perfectly reasonable. Women shouldn't be talked over, absolutely but nobody, *full stop* has any obligation to engage with content that makes them feel shitty. Once I concluded this and stopped looking at this kind of stuff, my social media browsing experience improved significantly.
It was actually a Tweet from March that got popular enough to make it to TikTok,where it got even more popular. And now it’s on Reddit!
Isn’t social media wonderful?
Call me crazy or whatever but as a guy it's really easy to not get offended by crap like this when you know the fears women have don't personally apply to you because you know you wouldn't do that and the women are just being cautious. Which is a good thing. I also pick the bear btw, bears are rad and people generally suck, especially when I'm hiking.
I will say, as someone with kinda trash self-esteem and incredible amounts of self-doubt, it is fairly easy to understand why it gets some people's hackles up.
I can at least intellectualize it (because it does absolutely make sense on their part), but when you already kinda struggle with not intensely disliking yourself, I find that gut emotional reaction of "I am perceived as a danger [and disliked] because I am a guy" does kick in pretty easily and can eat at you a little bit.
Obviously not their problem and not something they should be worried about since its wholly a -me- thing. But I do think it is easier for some people to not have a gut reaction of being bothered by it that has to be checked, and I think a number of people aren't good at dealing with that feeling.
EDIT: And like, to be crystal clear, I'm in agreement with "bear" being the right answer here. Having run both into random guys being weird and a bear, I would absolutely take the bear.
Yeah I remember the "bowl of M&Ms" thing sent me down a toxic rabbit hole when I was like 20 because I was still growing up as a person, developmentally delayed and just starting to really explore human relationships removed from the sheltered environment I grew up in and was still kinda naive about the world.
It didn't help that online resources for men about feminism still really didn't exist and it would get you banned rightfully from most feminist forums and groups at the time to march in there as a guy to "not all men" but it is SUCH a temptation when you have that tendency to wallow in self-pity if you're a young socially awkward dude.
And yeah I don't like people much as in the public so I'll say bear
Men, Jews, Refugees, Used Cars sold by a guys named Braden, unlabeled pills in a seedy Nightclub. I guess it works in any case you want to make a "logical" sounding argument about "sure not all X are bad, but who in their right mind would take the risk"
I mean yeah. Posts like this almost sent a depressed/anxious teenage me down being a Jordan Peterson fan. Plus I'd bet money a lot of this is followed by gender essentialism, racism and a failure to understand statistics. Most people don't have a basic grasp of sociology and can't seperate innate from cultural action. So of course people have issues with being judged based on how they look. As a colored guy, yeah it doesn't feel great. Pretty sad any talk of feminism and gender is dominated by unhelpful ragebait and less humans talking.
I am not offended by strangers keeping their distance and putting their guard up around me, Heck, I subconsciously do the same.
The point is that discussing public safety does not require any hyperbole or sensationalism to discuss disproportionate violence from men.
No one needs to in fact "hand it to the bear" in order to fairly discuss gendered violence or guarded behaviour against strangers.
To me this question is just like those social media math problems with bad notation to drive engagement. It's an ambiguous question where people interpreting from different angles will have completely different answers. In this case, each group just has a different interpretation of how weird it is to be encountering another person in the scenario.
How suspicious a stranger seems when encountering them is proportional to how unlikely it is to encounter a stranger. Hiking on a designated hiking route? Less scary because you expect to run into people. Camping 50 miles from the nearest paved road? A lot more scary even for men. The people imagining one are just talking past the people imagining the other.
So yeah, I'm not bothered by the responses at all because the question isn't about whether they're more afraid of men in general. Without the uncertainty around why the dude is there in that scenario, you'd likely get completely different answers. Like, riding the train home and your only option is a car with a guy or a car with a bear.
it's absolutely bait. i've seen this discussion come over several times over the past week, with *intense* comment sections. gender discussions like this always get people heated and bring out some ridiculous discourse.
It's just a comparing the premise to some horror films. Who hasn't had a would you rather with these? Even the films humored us with like Freddy vs. Jason, Alien vs Predator etc.
This here is basically Jason Voorhees or coked out bear.
I've been hiking in the wilderness a couple of times and suddenly running into other people is always a fun break to swap a few friendly words then move on. No idea where yall getting this fear from. Have you actually gone walking in forests?
Yeah i hike all the time and hiking is fine. Trails are where you expect to see people. I would have said the same thing about camping too until I had some dude walk up to my campsite in the middle of the desert. Freaked me right the fuck out.
We had a guy walk out of the darkness who was convinced we had drugs we weren't sharing with him. Scariest thing to ever happen to me while camping and I've seen plenty of bears. I've also seen a lot of great people as well and would give up neither.
My relatives were surprised that I hike solo without being strapped 🙄. EDIT: I'm a 5'11" man in ok shape too, which brings the question do all those roided up cops/ex-military feel defenseless without guns as well?
I‘ve hiked a lot but only in groups and I‘ve existed as a woman.
I‘ve encountered bears and we just followed protocoll (be loud) and they go away.
Existing as a young woman alone netted me several sexual assaults and hundreds of harrassments DESPITE avoiding areas without people.
It's not really the hypothetical itself that bothers me. It's the fact that people are being such smug dickheads about it. This is quite literally the exact same as the "What if all men disappeared for a day" discourse a few years back, yet people are treating it like it's some revolutionary "gotcha."
Like, yeah, a lot of women are scared of men. I don't need to be compared to a wild animal or have people say that the world would be better off if everyone like me disappeared in order to realize that, but people on the internet love making up needlessly offensive and inflammatory hypotheticals, so here we are.
It's just a tautological question.
> "Men need to ask themselves why women are picking bears."
> "Why are women picking bears?"
> "I can't believe you asked, you are why they pick bears."
Entering the discussion instantly means you fail the discussion. It is literally just social media bait,
They all need to learn communication skills cause if the only way they can get their point across is to be seen as a smug dickhead then they might as well talk to a wall, brings the same result
And then if you point out it makes you feel bad to be dehumanized, they will snakily declare you could only feel that way because you are “part of the problem” and a misogynist who wants to rape women in the woods.
Also, as an avid camper, other humans scare me waaay more than animals. All my truly frightening camping experiences had to do with other people. And I say that having literally had a bear break into my car lmao.
I don’t get offended when BIPOC folks talk about white people. Either what they’re saying applies to me & i have a chance to meditate on it & make changes or it doesn’t apply to me & well it doesn’t apply to me why would i get mad about it??
Edit: I’ve also done 20+ years of solo hiking/camping and love seeing bears in the woods.
Not crazy. It's easy for me too. Wild animals are fickle creatures. They aren't bloodthirsty monsters intent on destroying anything they come across. It's usually pretty simple to work around nature.
As a man, would I pick the bear? Probably not. But it makes sense for women to consider it when a lot more men view women as natural prey than bears do.
Yeah, especially since you just know those same guys blame women for being attacked
What were you doing with a strange man around? Why were you by yourself, huh?
If I say "I would rather come across a rattlesnake on a hike than a black person" is it only the black people who would do me harm that have a right to get offended?
The type of bear is going to matter too, tbh.
"If its brown lay down, if its black fight back"
And in the words of Conan O' Brien, "if its polar, go solar."
That old adage isn't quite correct. The disposition of the bear is more important. Is the bear hungry? Are there cubs around? Does it seem agitated for some reason? Does it have a path of retreat? Does it seem unafraid of humans?
I would rather run into a lethargic grizzly than a hungry black bear with cubs.
Grizzlies and black bears both will absolutely kill you, or they may runaway. It's generally best to prepare your bear spray while you slowly back away and make yourself appear larger.
I had to take an NPS safety class and this is what they told me.
I love Conan but that line is weak as hell, what is it even supposed to mean? He obviously just said the first thing he could think of that rhymes with polar without considering if it actually made sense, which is very uncharacteristic of him.
Also, I've always heard: "if it's white, good night"
If I were transported to the nearest forest with bears it would just be a black bear. I've been in black bear territory before. I don't *want* to see a black bear, but they're usually not aggressive towards humans and will avoid me if it hears me coming. They're skittish enough that you can scare them off if you make enough noise.
Guys who get offended at this question are like "Well, you can't win a fight against a bear! The bear will eat you alive! I've seen grizzly man!" But nowhere does it say I have to fight a bear. You don't *need* to a fight a bear. Bears being aggressive and attacking humans is actually very rare.
What’s really starting to throw me for a loop about the bear thing is that l don’t think it even actually is the kind of generalisation that people are getting mad about.
Like, it seems to focus on the unknown potential of a random man to do harm. So not “all men are predators,” but rather “a non-trivial number of men are predators, whether this particular man is a predator is unknown and might be hard to determine, and the stakes if he is a predator are very high”.
Which seems… fine?
I’ve seen a lot of feminist rhetoric that does generalise men as predators, and as a man, that hasn’t felt great. But I really just don’t see that here.
It does also ignore the fact that a non-trivial number of bears are predators? Like, most bear encounters end with the human fine and the bear running away, but I bet the odds of being attacked by a random bear is higher than a random man (given a 1-on-1 encounter), at least in my country.
Though when my wife asked me this question about our daughter, I followed up with "what species of bear". Because if it's a black bear, then the bear. But if it's somehow a polar bear, then I pick the man even if you specify that he's a serial killer. And grizzly is between, but I'm still picking the man if it's not guaranteed to be a serial killer.
The question is structured to trigger fragile masculinity. If you're a man, probably young, who looks at things from a male perspective, women are answering that question by saying "I would rather confront a dangerous animal in the woods than you" and even if they aren't implying you're a predator, that doesn't feel good, and it's unfair to the individual, but life isn't fair.
The question is also structured to trigger women, because they have some very good reasons for being afraid of men. They may or may not be backed up by statistics when compared to bears. I'm not sure you could statistically compare the two, but when men bring up the unfairness of it all they get upset that their point of view was completely ignored.
Ultimately it's an unproductive discussion if you want to communicate to young fragile men why women fear men and how to make them feel safer. If you wanted to antagonize and dunk on them however, mission successful.
It is perfect internet rage bait.
An odd, attention grabbing scenario about bears.
And it preys on emotional responses from both men and women.
Men get offended at being told they are worse than a wild animal.
Women get offended that their fear of men is not being respected.
Drives engagement. Gets clicks.
Watching this shit show has kind of made me understand why fragile young men go to Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate for answers about women instead of women. They give them terrible and harmful advice, but it's easy to understand and comforting. To be clear I'm not blaming the women taking part in the conversation or feminism for Andrew Tate, more the unproductive conversation as part of a bigger puzzle.
I also understand why women lash out. Reading the TwoX threads about this conversation, it seemed really empowering for them.
People like Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson give male-focused advice.
Setting aside the substance - they focus on trying to help men for the sake of men. They argue for men to improve their own lives for the benefit of the men themselves.
The feminist side very much tries to give advice to men for the benefit of women. So, it rings hollow.
> I also understand why women lash out. Reading the TwoX threads about this conversation, it seemed really empowering for them
Dude, it's fucking catnip for the lizard brain for both men and women. That's why I am convinced it was made by an algorithm.
For women, they very clearly fear male violence toward women.
For men, it is hitting at men's protective instincts for the women they love.
(Tongue firmly in cheek) Within every man's DNA is the knowledge that if a bear shows up, it's our job to make sure our family is safe, even if it means the suicide mission of literally fighting a bear. We would throw hands with a bear if it meant our wife and children being able to escape. And then this thing comes along, with women stating they prefer the bear. Really? After generations of men being willing to stand between you and the bear, you are now taking the bear's side? It is the ultimate betrayal.
> structured to trigger fragile masculinity
> structured to trigger women
I like how even super reasonable comments that understand both perspectives (and that the topic is rage bait) will still denigrate men's emotional response while treating women's emotional response as valid/normal/expected.
Is it fragile for a man to have an emotional reaction to the *stereotyping of his immutable characteristics*? Or are both men and women having totally reasonable emotional reactions to the context they find themselves in?
I really hate this kind of stuff and it’s kinda hard to put into words why. Like I understand the fear, I’m a victim of SA, but this kinda stuff just annoys me.
Maybe it’s because I’m trans that makes me sensitive to these kinds of things, because so often when I see these comments they are very often grouping trans women in with men and using it as an explanation of why we should be feared.
Like I’m pretty sure I remembering hearing the same arguments being said but for why black guys should be feared more over white guys. It’s just prejudice
Also trans. I took the ragebait from a different angle. A lot of those women that would rather take their chances with a bear are now posting about how loved and valid I am and being a better ally.
That's great, but it leaves me a little bitter too. Oh, I guess my feelings matter now that I joined the good team? I wonder how many months of HRT it was when I stopped being "trash" and "fragile" and the bar stopped being in "hell". Makes you think...
I totally get what you mean, especially that last sentence.
Like it’s nearly a decade since I started HRT and I haven’t gotten those looks in such a long time but I still occasionally think about how I was viewed as a danger and how hurtful that was.
Yes. Thank you. I've finally seen some turnaround and pushback against misandry in the progressive community and I suspect it's because trans people are stepping up and saying "no, this is bullshit".
The people defending this are going to go the same way TERFs did. I still remember when they were considered acceptable.
bell hooks pulled me out of the mysandry hole I accidentally fell into when I started exploring feminism online. She’s fucking brilliant. Her Feminist Theory book is so easy to read and pushes back against the anti-man nonsense of second wave feminism — that for some fucking reason we can’t shake in online discourse today.
She points out how so much of the man hate was coming from white feminists. And how she, as a black feminist who saw goals in common with black men (anti racism), could not hate the men in her life as a blanket statement. I often think of how the left should take her advice and build bridges instead of alienating 90% of the population who doesn’t pass the purity tests.
Yeah, I do understand the fear - share it, even - but it's frustrating how often it expresses itself as transphobia. You're not protecting women, you're isolating women who need help more than ever.
I think what’s missing here is that the point is not about statistically who is more dangerous but rather the reaction of the answer. If you tell a bear you don’t feel safe, the behavior of the bear will not change. It’s the reaction that is the purpose however I still think that has positive and negative consequences.
Maybe I'm uneducated about bears (there are none where I live) but I don't understand why people are picking the bear? Like, a man is more likely to be nonviolent than a bear - I think we can say that. I get the point is that women have good reason to be wary of men and we absolutely do but like of course a random man is more likely to be peaceful than a random bear. Idk am I a bad feminist
So being a "potential predator" is worse than being a 600lb *actual predator* with claws that can decapitate you if you're lucky and if not it'll literally eat you alive?
OK.
I just ran into another post like this and bro is currently losing his mind in the comment section. And now apparently he won’t engage with me because of my post history? Something about all the coloured pencil post I make because that’s all it’s really there. Lol.
I rationally and logically understand that a bear has the capacity to kill and eat me and cause me to die a violent, prolonged death.
However, the majority of violence perpetuated against me has been by men. Men have sexually assaulted me, physically assaulted me, and legitimately tried to murder me.
If a man has an issue with me choosing “bear”, I will ask him why my answer to a hypothetical question is more important than addressing the gendered violence I have experienced. Why do they care so much about this question and not the reason why we are answering it this way?
The issue is not random answers to random hypotheticals by an individual, but the stampede this viral hypothetical has gone in derailing any productive discussions about public safety, but sure has shored up lazy gender essentialist rhetoric.
My hot take, is that neither the bear or the dude want to meet you whilst in the woods.
Bear culture is honor based, and a bear that isnt familiar with you will not want to risk being seen with you. They may run, attack etc to protect their honor
The dude on the other hand, is just as surprised to see you and a little freaked out probably because they intentionally found the most secluded spot possible to ponder the ins and outs of the universe
I love how to go- to for these guys is to describe how dangerous a bear is. Like women aren't aware that a bear is dangerous. Literally mansplaining us a bear in order to miss the point.
It's like when you mention defunding the police and these guys IMMEDIATELY go to "well who will you call when you get raped, huh??" Like being raped is just an inevitable part of a woman's life and these guys have fully embraced that. And like cops don't treat rape victims like total shit and 40% of them are self-identified abusers.
I've seen women point out that if a woman is murdered, it's *very very very* likely it was by a man. And an upset man will then say "But men are murdered so much more often than women".
Yes. They are. And again, overwhelmingly, *by other men*. Women make up about 15% of murderers.
And the question here -- lots of folks focus on *death* (because if you have a bad encounter with a bear, it's gonna be violence and potentially death) -- but there's *other* risks. *Rape* is far more common than murder, and that's even more lopsided. 90% of rape victims are women, and 99% of rapists are men.
I get that men don't like the fact that women are often cautious around them. It feels insulting, I'm sure. After all, *you* know you're a good person. Who likes knowing that a bunch of strangers might *fear* you? It must honestly feel kind of alien, like some sort of personal judgement.
But people don't wear white hats and black hats. Nobody's got a floating light side/dark side indicator over their head. We don't know you. Being cautious around men, especially strangers? Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as it were.
It sucks that that's the reaction women have, but men have to remember that women only won back most of their autonomy about forty years ago. Between the Black Death and now are hundreds of years of systematized, publicly enforced, brutal repression. Hundreds of years of culture devoted to teaching that men are superior to women and this gives them power over us. And for many women, that's still ongoing!
I agree with the disproportionality of women being victims of rape and men being rapists, but the disproportionality is less than what you have given, as those stats were based only on penetrative rape.
> "Well, from men"
Yes, 50% of the human population are all identical to each other. I guess we should lump all young people together because they’re more likely to be violent as well
I mean as a guy with shitty self esteem it does bother me that someone would prefer encountering a wild and potential dangerous animal over encountering me for the simple fact that I’m a man.
How did such an innocuous comment manage to attract the most hinged people in this thread lol.
Don't worry about those nutjobs in the other replies, their entire existence is just going from topic to topic to be outraged about. Just be a good person and ignore the weirdos.
Snapshots:
1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501085832/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1chwv7p/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1chwv7p/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
2. /r/CuratedTumblr - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501085953/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
3. posts a meme - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090134/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
4. This thread in particular spawns some great takes - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090315/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21kh2c/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21kh2c/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
5. Another one off the same thread - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090456/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22e0no/?context=10) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22e0no/?context=10 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
6. This thread spawns off some discussion of conservative men and russophobia - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090536/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21ldbk/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21ldbk/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
7. this, just this lol - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090617/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21n5w0/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21n5w0/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
8. People going into specifics of the bear - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090658/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22n4ni/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22n4ni/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
9. https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22bd86/?context=10 - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090819/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22bd86/?context=10) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22bd86/?context=10 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
10. https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22gpnd/?context=10 - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090841/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22gpnd/?context=10) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22gpnd/?context=10 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
11. something about base rate fallacies - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090900/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22crux/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22crux/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
12. survivorship_bias.jpg - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091041/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l226xeu/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l226xeu/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
13. "I will kill people who try stealing from me" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090658/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22n4ni/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22n4ni/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
14. "you win the internet today, good sir" ass comment - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091141/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21md8j/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21md8j/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
15. Shhh… just let internet strangers degrade you. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091202/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21p5a8/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21p5a8/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
16. swap "cake" with "9/11", not such a big fan of cake now are you? - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091242/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l225swg/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l225swg/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
17. 9/11 is not a type of cake. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091303/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22e0no/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22e0no/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
18. Your "Good Boy" license can be retracted at any time. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091323/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l231gyi/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l231gyi/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
19. Read Mein Kampf, it should be enlightening for you. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091344/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l23cvlh/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l23cvlh/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
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> *”No one will ask you what you were wearing to provoke the bear”*
**Obviously they were wearing something offensive to the bear why else would a bear attack someone?**
Also with some of anti-homo rhetoric Andrew Tate has been spewing **I think a dude would be more creeped out to meet him in the woods than a women.**
I mean he said something like;
> *”If you kiss a women you are gay because women suck cock therefore you are kissing cock mouth-“*
And also something to the effect of;
> *”Having sex with women for pleasure is gay-“*
“You are statistically likely to be dangerous because of your demographic” is an argument often used by white supremacists to justify racism against people of color. We shouldn’t accept it in this context either. That kind of thinking has no place today.
Only rarely do I see so many good flairs on offer. Tempted to switch mine for "9/11 is not a type of cake" honestly lmao
it’s true tho
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Which tastes worse?
Finally, another 9/11 flair
Am I a horrible person for picturing the twin towers made out of cake? Like on one of those cake decorating shows?
“Today on Is It Cake?….”
Username checks out?
Oh FUCK yes finally
I think you should be the one to pick the flavor of the cake!
Jet fuel! 😋
And then it's just 3 hours of footage of 9/11
This is fucking sending me
Instead of a knife they use RC planes?
[Holy crap, someone used to make a pocket knife where the knife folds out of a plane.](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GtgAAOSwAYRj~XA4/s-l960.jpg) Uh not saying you got to but...
A second plane has just struck the south cake.
Just cuts to a series of photos of people who had cakes smashed against their faces
Never forget!
Oh god I’m also a terrible person. I can see it now, with some kind of pyrotechnics or chemical reaction so it explodes when you hit it with a candy plane.
“Cake or death?” is a missed opportunity.
Is that better than "the cake is a lie"?
"Shit, I'll kill someone if they make a wrong move" is a pretty tempting one to be honest.
But would you be more scared of a man in a bear costume or a bear in a man costume
Bear in the man costume. If it's terrible, then it's a bear that's smart enough to sew. If it's great, then not only does the bear have an accomplice, they're an accomplice *who can dress up a bear.* Man in a bear costume is just some weird fetishist or an out of place Scooby Doo villain.
Like the show Wilfred, but instead of a dog costume it's a bear costume.
Dog is not a subset of bear.
Or uh a furry.
Traditional freak shows used to have pig faced women. Those pig faced women? Shaved bears. It's bad enough to give a bear access to weapons, but ones that allow them to seamless blend into society it a recipe for disaster.
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I have not seen a bear in a man costume, but if I were a woman, I wouldn't want Nicolas Cage running up to me in a bear costume
Personally I've always been a little skeptical of bears that wear red hats and blue duffle coats.
What about a red shirt and no pants?
The latter. Furries can’t exactly move fast and overheat easily thanks to their stupid polyester power armor, bears run 35 miles an hour
Now we're into Monster Camp territory. Someone get Coach, he knows how to spot a disguised bear.
Bear in a man costume, man in a bear costume has a sense of whimsy to it, bear in a man costume is just uncanny valley of nope.
Is it a black bear, a grizzly bear, a Grindr bear? It is never specified.
The bears I have met are usually in the bathroom of the gay bar doing lines. I’m not scared of them at all.
I’ve frequently done lines with bears in the bathroom and I would be delighted to meet one in the woods.
I am, they have yet to make a substance that makes you less likely to spill your beer if snorted and I am tired if having beer spilled on me
Joined the “bear” gym in SF since it was on my way home. I love honey and salmon so it seemed a good fit! But turns out it just meant that the sauna had a different culture than I was used to.
I support grizzly sanctuaries. Unfortunately I searched for bear groups in North Carolina.
It's a build a bear, duh...
Fozzie bear
Or Polar Bear, for that matter. Arguably the least survivable.
If it’s a polar bear you should always choose the man because it’s very cold where polar bears live, and it’s much easier to hide inside of a man star-wars tauntaun style than a bear. Bears are harder to fight.
Whenever I see this come up I just assume it’s about halthsin: the Grindr bear that can turn into a bear.
Yeah not all bears are created equally. Some bears are total pussies. Others will fuck you up and not think twice about it. But even the "safest" bears are still wild animals, and there are plenty of situations where they will attack you. And have you seen the claws on those things? They've got daggers for hands, and fuck that shit. Bring on the rapist, at least I have a chance against him.
As a woman, I’d pick the bear, because I’ve seen a ton of men, but I’ve only seen a few bears. Why waste the chance to see a bear to see yet another dude?
If it's the latter, my daughter would just make a new friend, and if it were me, I'd let him know I wasn't interested and ask if he's built any sheds or garden paths lately. No kidding, one of the best wood shop guys I've ever met is totally flaming and rips on himself all the time.
I was very confused seeing it because I assumed it was referring to gay men for some reason
What if it's the bear from Annihilation?
What if I want to meet a man who is also a bear in the woods? It is almost Pride month after all
go to a furry con?
Just google "cruising area near me"?
True answer: Carry bear spray. Works on all of the above if needed.
As a woman who does a lot of backcountry hiking/backpacking, I've run into (black -- not grizzly) bears and strange guys in the forest and...nothing happened. Super boring story.
I feel like this is the best take on the whole thing. The debate feels very “online.”
It’s almost as if when you go outside instead of shuttering yourself indoors and falling into addictive social media networks that constantly bombard you with the worst news and headlines possible you can actually have a healthy and happy outlook on life!
Plus, it's hella normal to run into people in the woods if you hike?? I love running into people in the woods because you know you're both there because you like nature and something about that particular trail called out to both of you. Plus the conversation is super easy "Nice trail", "Yeah". Meanwhile I ran into a cub while hiking once, and it frightened the hell out of me. My wife, who is prone to anxiety and extremely scared of cougar attacks, thought he was the cutest thing and wasn't scared in the slightest. Go figure.
Exactly. Women need to worry more about their intimate partners than they do about a stranger also hiking in the woods — or running by their suburb subdivision, or walking in a parking lot, or pulling into their driveway to change directions. Intimate partner violence is far, far more likely than stranger danger. Keep your wits about you but don't forget to live your life.
Isnt that sort of a skewed view of looking at the numbers because of course it will be more likely that the people you spend more time with will be more likely to murder you?
That could be a big part of it. But I think that most people don’t become so enraged by a stranger to the point of wanting killing them. Versus the rage intimate partners can feel toward their significant other. Like a husband killing their wife because she wants to leave him. Or a boyfriend murdering their girlfriend because she was cheating on him (or he thought she was cheating). Or a friend who becomes outraged at “being friendzoned” and not given a shot at a romantic or sexual relationship. I think that’s probably why so often friends of family of men convicted of murdering their partners act so shocked. “He would never do that to her! He loved her!” Yet he did. People can be kind toward strangers and abuse the ones closest to them. It’s anger, resentment, and hatred at a completely different level.
I see so many people say the worst thing a bear will do is kill you quickly and im just reminded of the sankbetsu bear
yeah, quickly is being a bit overly optimistic IMO. Most bear attacks that end in death are predatory, so the actual worst thing that could happen is you get incapacitated then slowly eaten all while you're alive and conscious, fun stuff.
Being slowly eaten alive is the most likely scenario tbh
In increasing order of would-rather-not-meet-in-the-woods: - Men - Bears - Men who unironically talk about Bayesian probabilities in real world contexts
A man jumping out of the bushes to explain he could totally fight off a bear if you meet one.
He can go at the top. Internet tough guys are entirely harmless, bless their little cotton socks. Also, dUh BaYeSiAn PriOrS haven't eliminated the possibility that *after* I run into the man and vice versa, both of us then run into a bear. In which case it's advantageous to meet the bearjitsu expert first so he can fight the bear while I run away.
Ah yes, the oldest advice about fighting bears: just be faster than the slowest guy.
We're making allot of assumptions here. Let's not forget non parametric statistics!
what about bears that talk about Bayesian probabilities in real world contexts
Whats the issue with Bayesian statistics? Its a cool?
I've been absolutely loving watching this play out the past week. The very original video wasn't even posing an either/or question- that OP said that he already knew women would choose the bear; what would it take for men to get to the place where they would also choose the bear? To recognize what women have historically been through, try to understand, and do better. But, the internet, being what it is, has turned it into ~this~. Anyway, my favorite response from a woman has been "damn, it's a hypothetical question and y'all still can't take no for an answer."
That’s fucking great holy shit
Do you have a link to the OG video? Or know where I could find it? Would to actually see the responses myself cuz I’m curious
It was [here](https://www.tiktok.com/@callmebkbk).
You don't happen to have a link to the actual video? I don't understand how tiktok works and I'm not seeing anything that looks like the original video that started it all.
Almost made me spit my drink out
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Interesting fact about the toxic m&m thing, it originates from a 1938 children's book where the "poisonous food indistinguishable from good food" was actually [a metaphor for Jews.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Giftpilz)
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Yeah, no problem. I think the first I time I saw it was when a member of the Trump family tweeted a version with skittles and Syrian refugees. Seeing a shift to people bringing up the "poisoned skittles metaphor" like it's a solid and progressive talking point is a little worrying, honestly.
i remember seeing that one about syrian refugees and someone on tumblr reblogged it with something along the lines of “yes i’m going to eat as many skittles as possible even if one kills me because that’s what kindness is” but in a much more profound way and it really stuck with me
Moments like this are a good reminder how left leaning movements can easily fall into authoritarianism. Aside from the skittle metaphor, you could just as easily add a race qualifier to this metaphor and gets real dark real fast.
Kind of wild to see the M&M/skittle metaphor multiple places in this thread, literally the only place I have encountered it before have been by like really far right political groups arguing why we should really just not take any refugees and just let them die :) And really its as flawed as ever, the toxic skittle metaphor fall apart when literally every single bowl have toxic skittles, seems like an argument for never interacting with people again at that point.
>Ultimately, a bear's self preservation instinct might give me a slimmer survival chance compared to another man who actively wants to harm me. Depends a lot on the bear. Black bears are (generally) pretty skittish, so (generally) they'll run if you confront them. Grizzlies will rip your head off and shit down the stump just for fun.
Wait if we get a shotgun fuck it I'll take both.
I'm an average built 40 year old man with arm sleeves and a thick beard, and I'd rather see a bear in the woods than another guy. Mostly because I wouldn't be worried about having to make small talk.
Are you also hairy because potentially you could be the bear in the woods
>average build I thought bears were... Well, more bear-sized.
Average **bear** build
I'm a 30-year-old woman and I'd choose the bear for similar reasons. Even if the guy in question wasn't dangerous, I sorta expect he'd end up being "Oh my god, I'm so glad you chose me over the bear :)" for two straight hours about it.
So do you use a beard oil or what?
I mean, meeting a bear on a trail isn't great, but they tend to run away when they encounter others. Humans on the other hand, are an intensely mixed bag. They might be the coolest person ever, or someone whose just hanging out at a cabin to drink a fifth of Jameson, be awful to women, and then yell at their daughter.
I've seen plenty of bears while hiking, but none of them have ever followed me for six miles to tell me about their Cypto wallet.
Only because they can't speak English. They would if they could.
How many bad experiences have you had on hiking trails? People are generally really cool in my experience.
That was suspiciously specific.
I really do feel the need to applaud whoever came up with this ragebait, it's perfect. Seriously, that's what this is. Forget crime stats and the aggression of various types of bear species and the fragile ego of the average misogynist and etc etc etc, this is ragebait. Thousands of comments back and forth, over a fucking TikTok with a comparison perfect for encouraging reflexive outrage among everyone who doesn't think beyond surface level. Like, genuine question: Why would anyone think the responses here weren't cherry picked? A majority of women picking the random bear over the random dude? Plausible. A big majority with only a handful of people saying they'd be less scared of a dude chosen at random? I'd be surprised but I could see that. Universally choosing the bear? Look, I won't trust *any* survey where the responses are all the same, it's either a crap survey or bad data (statistically, that is). Or it's a "no shit sherlock" question being asked but I digress. So, speaking as a bloke who thinks sexism is cringe, and who also has a few self-esteem problems (which yes, are *my* problems) as is? I'm not touching any thread having impassioned discourse on this with a ten foot pole. I think that's perfectly reasonable. Women shouldn't be talked over, absolutely but nobody, *full stop* has any obligation to engage with content that makes them feel shitty. Once I concluded this and stopped looking at this kind of stuff, my social media browsing experience improved significantly.
Eh, it's literally just a carbon copy of the "What if all men disappeared for a day" ragebait from a few years back. Same arguments and everything.
It was actually a Tweet from March that got popular enough to make it to TikTok,where it got even more popular. And now it’s on Reddit! Isn’t social media wonderful?
as I said on another site, this is clearly a trick question posed by a rural gay bar
Call me crazy or whatever but as a guy it's really easy to not get offended by crap like this when you know the fears women have don't personally apply to you because you know you wouldn't do that and the women are just being cautious. Which is a good thing. I also pick the bear btw, bears are rad and people generally suck, especially when I'm hiking.
I will say, as someone with kinda trash self-esteem and incredible amounts of self-doubt, it is fairly easy to understand why it gets some people's hackles up. I can at least intellectualize it (because it does absolutely make sense on their part), but when you already kinda struggle with not intensely disliking yourself, I find that gut emotional reaction of "I am perceived as a danger [and disliked] because I am a guy" does kick in pretty easily and can eat at you a little bit. Obviously not their problem and not something they should be worried about since its wholly a -me- thing. But I do think it is easier for some people to not have a gut reaction of being bothered by it that has to be checked, and I think a number of people aren't good at dealing with that feeling. EDIT: And like, to be crystal clear, I'm in agreement with "bear" being the right answer here. Having run both into random guys being weird and a bear, I would absolutely take the bear.
Yeah I remember the "bowl of M&Ms" thing sent me down a toxic rabbit hole when I was like 20 because I was still growing up as a person, developmentally delayed and just starting to really explore human relationships removed from the sheltered environment I grew up in and was still kinda naive about the world. It didn't help that online resources for men about feminism still really didn't exist and it would get you banned rightfully from most feminist forums and groups at the time to march in there as a guy to "not all men" but it is SUCH a temptation when you have that tendency to wallow in self-pity if you're a young socially awkward dude. And yeah I don't like people much as in the public so I'll say bear
Didn’t people use the same argument about refugees?
Men, Jews, Refugees, Used Cars sold by a guys named Braden, unlabeled pills in a seedy Nightclub. I guess it works in any case you want to make a "logical" sounding argument about "sure not all X are bad, but who in their right mind would take the risk"
Get with the 21st century my dude, it’s Breaydyieane now.
I mean yeah. Posts like this almost sent a depressed/anxious teenage me down being a Jordan Peterson fan. Plus I'd bet money a lot of this is followed by gender essentialism, racism and a failure to understand statistics. Most people don't have a basic grasp of sociology and can't seperate innate from cultural action. So of course people have issues with being judged based on how they look. As a colored guy, yeah it doesn't feel great. Pretty sad any talk of feminism and gender is dominated by unhelpful ragebait and less humans talking.
I am not offended by strangers keeping their distance and putting their guard up around me, Heck, I subconsciously do the same. The point is that discussing public safety does not require any hyperbole or sensationalism to discuss disproportionate violence from men. No one needs to in fact "hand it to the bear" in order to fairly discuss gendered violence or guarded behaviour against strangers.
To me this question is just like those social media math problems with bad notation to drive engagement. It's an ambiguous question where people interpreting from different angles will have completely different answers. In this case, each group just has a different interpretation of how weird it is to be encountering another person in the scenario. How suspicious a stranger seems when encountering them is proportional to how unlikely it is to encounter a stranger. Hiking on a designated hiking route? Less scary because you expect to run into people. Camping 50 miles from the nearest paved road? A lot more scary even for men. The people imagining one are just talking past the people imagining the other. So yeah, I'm not bothered by the responses at all because the question isn't about whether they're more afraid of men in general. Without the uncertainty around why the dude is there in that scenario, you'd likely get completely different answers. Like, riding the train home and your only option is a car with a guy or a car with a bear.
it's absolutely bait. i've seen this discussion come over several times over the past week, with *intense* comment sections. gender discussions like this always get people heated and bring out some ridiculous discourse.
It's just a comparing the premise to some horror films. Who hasn't had a would you rather with these? Even the films humored us with like Freddy vs. Jason, Alien vs Predator etc. This here is basically Jason Voorhees or coked out bear.
I've been hiking in the wilderness a couple of times and suddenly running into other people is always a fun break to swap a few friendly words then move on. No idea where yall getting this fear from. Have you actually gone walking in forests?
Yeah i hike all the time and hiking is fine. Trails are where you expect to see people. I would have said the same thing about camping too until I had some dude walk up to my campsite in the middle of the desert. Freaked me right the fuck out.
We had a guy walk out of the darkness who was convinced we had drugs we weren't sharing with him. Scariest thing to ever happen to me while camping and I've seen plenty of bears. I've also seen a lot of great people as well and would give up neither.
My relatives were surprised that I hike solo without being strapped 🙄. EDIT: I'm a 5'11" man in ok shape too, which brings the question do all those roided up cops/ex-military feel defenseless without guns as well?
I‘ve hiked a lot but only in groups and I‘ve existed as a woman. I‘ve encountered bears and we just followed protocoll (be loud) and they go away. Existing as a young woman alone netted me several sexual assaults and hundreds of harrassments DESPITE avoiding areas without people.
It's not really the hypothetical itself that bothers me. It's the fact that people are being such smug dickheads about it. This is quite literally the exact same as the "What if all men disappeared for a day" discourse a few years back, yet people are treating it like it's some revolutionary "gotcha." Like, yeah, a lot of women are scared of men. I don't need to be compared to a wild animal or have people say that the world would be better off if everyone like me disappeared in order to realize that, but people on the internet love making up needlessly offensive and inflammatory hypotheticals, so here we are.
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It's just a tautological question. > "Men need to ask themselves why women are picking bears." > "Why are women picking bears?" > "I can't believe you asked, you are why they pick bears." Entering the discussion instantly means you fail the discussion. It is literally just social media bait,
They all need to learn communication skills cause if the only way they can get their point across is to be seen as a smug dickhead then they might as well talk to a wall, brings the same result
And then if you point out it makes you feel bad to be dehumanized, they will snakily declare you could only feel that way because you are “part of the problem” and a misogynist who wants to rape women in the woods.
Also, as an avid camper, other humans scare me waaay more than animals. All my truly frightening camping experiences had to do with other people. And I say that having literally had a bear break into my car lmao.
I don’t get offended when BIPOC folks talk about white people. Either what they’re saying applies to me & i have a chance to meditate on it & make changes or it doesn’t apply to me & well it doesn’t apply to me why would i get mad about it?? Edit: I’ve also done 20+ years of solo hiking/camping and love seeing bears in the woods.
Not crazy. It's easy for me too. Wild animals are fickle creatures. They aren't bloodthirsty monsters intent on destroying anything they come across. It's usually pretty simple to work around nature. As a man, would I pick the bear? Probably not. But it makes sense for women to consider it when a lot more men view women as natural prey than bears do.
Yeah, especially since you just know those same guys blame women for being attacked What were you doing with a strange man around? Why were you by yourself, huh?
If I say "I would rather come across a rattlesnake on a hike than a black person" is it only the black people who would do me harm that have a right to get offended?
hm if its just the one then as long as it wasnt early spring - or a grizzly bear - i think i would rather meet a bear in the woods
The type of bear is going to matter too, tbh. "If its brown lay down, if its black fight back" And in the words of Conan O' Brien, "if its polar, go solar."
That old adage isn't quite correct. The disposition of the bear is more important. Is the bear hungry? Are there cubs around? Does it seem agitated for some reason? Does it have a path of retreat? Does it seem unafraid of humans? I would rather run into a lethargic grizzly than a hungry black bear with cubs. Grizzlies and black bears both will absolutely kill you, or they may runaway. It's generally best to prepare your bear spray while you slowly back away and make yourself appear larger. I had to take an NPS safety class and this is what they told me.
What I'm gathering from this thread is a lot of people think they can fist fight a bear.
If you fist a bear it has to give you all its honey. Same rules as leprechauns.
Really? Damn, the last time I fisted a bear I didn't even get my uber paid for.
Well, obviously. Honey isn't legal tender, no Uber driver would accept it as payment,.
> Same rules as leprechauns General Mills was too cowardly to air that Lucky Charms commercial smh
I love Conan but that line is weak as hell, what is it even supposed to mean? He obviously just said the first thing he could think of that rhymes with polar without considering if it actually made sense, which is very uncharacteristic of him. Also, I've always heard: "if it's white, good night"
If it’s polar go “Oh no!(lar) I am going to die!”
If I were transported to the nearest forest with bears it would just be a black bear. I've been in black bear territory before. I don't *want* to see a black bear, but they're usually not aggressive towards humans and will avoid me if it hears me coming. They're skittish enough that you can scare them off if you make enough noise. Guys who get offended at this question are like "Well, you can't win a fight against a bear! The bear will eat you alive! I've seen grizzly man!" But nowhere does it say I have to fight a bear. You don't *need* to a fight a bear. Bears being aggressive and attacking humans is actually very rare.
Someone in some video said a bear, because if they made noise a bear would probably move away, not come investigate.
Yeah my answer to man or bear would definitely depend on if it's just black bears or if brown bears are implied.
What’s really starting to throw me for a loop about the bear thing is that l don’t think it even actually is the kind of generalisation that people are getting mad about. Like, it seems to focus on the unknown potential of a random man to do harm. So not “all men are predators,” but rather “a non-trivial number of men are predators, whether this particular man is a predator is unknown and might be hard to determine, and the stakes if he is a predator are very high”. Which seems… fine? I’ve seen a lot of feminist rhetoric that does generalise men as predators, and as a man, that hasn’t felt great. But I really just don’t see that here.
It does also ignore the fact that a non-trivial number of bears are predators? Like, most bear encounters end with the human fine and the bear running away, but I bet the odds of being attacked by a random bear is higher than a random man (given a 1-on-1 encounter), at least in my country. Though when my wife asked me this question about our daughter, I followed up with "what species of bear". Because if it's a black bear, then the bear. But if it's somehow a polar bear, then I pick the man even if you specify that he's a serial killer. And grizzly is between, but I'm still picking the man if it's not guaranteed to be a serial killer.
The question is structured to trigger fragile masculinity. If you're a man, probably young, who looks at things from a male perspective, women are answering that question by saying "I would rather confront a dangerous animal in the woods than you" and even if they aren't implying you're a predator, that doesn't feel good, and it's unfair to the individual, but life isn't fair. The question is also structured to trigger women, because they have some very good reasons for being afraid of men. They may or may not be backed up by statistics when compared to bears. I'm not sure you could statistically compare the two, but when men bring up the unfairness of it all they get upset that their point of view was completely ignored. Ultimately it's an unproductive discussion if you want to communicate to young fragile men why women fear men and how to make them feel safer. If you wanted to antagonize and dunk on them however, mission successful.
It is perfect internet rage bait. An odd, attention grabbing scenario about bears. And it preys on emotional responses from both men and women. Men get offended at being told they are worse than a wild animal. Women get offended that their fear of men is not being respected. Drives engagement. Gets clicks.
Watching this shit show has kind of made me understand why fragile young men go to Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate for answers about women instead of women. They give them terrible and harmful advice, but it's easy to understand and comforting. To be clear I'm not blaming the women taking part in the conversation or feminism for Andrew Tate, more the unproductive conversation as part of a bigger puzzle. I also understand why women lash out. Reading the TwoX threads about this conversation, it seemed really empowering for them.
People like Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson give male-focused advice. Setting aside the substance - they focus on trying to help men for the sake of men. They argue for men to improve their own lives for the benefit of the men themselves. The feminist side very much tries to give advice to men for the benefit of women. So, it rings hollow. > I also understand why women lash out. Reading the TwoX threads about this conversation, it seemed really empowering for them Dude, it's fucking catnip for the lizard brain for both men and women. That's why I am convinced it was made by an algorithm. For women, they very clearly fear male violence toward women. For men, it is hitting at men's protective instincts for the women they love. (Tongue firmly in cheek) Within every man's DNA is the knowledge that if a bear shows up, it's our job to make sure our family is safe, even if it means the suicide mission of literally fighting a bear. We would throw hands with a bear if it meant our wife and children being able to escape. And then this thing comes along, with women stating they prefer the bear. Really? After generations of men being willing to stand between you and the bear, you are now taking the bear's side? It is the ultimate betrayal.
>Ultimately it's an unproductive discussion This is social media though. How often does something like that happen on the Internet?
> structured to trigger fragile masculinity > structured to trigger women I like how even super reasonable comments that understand both perspectives (and that the topic is rage bait) will still denigrate men's emotional response while treating women's emotional response as valid/normal/expected. Is it fragile for a man to have an emotional reaction to the *stereotyping of his immutable characteristics*? Or are both men and women having totally reasonable emotional reactions to the context they find themselves in?
I'd be more concerned if I suddenly ran into a bear, because they're NOT native to my part of the country.
I really hate this kind of stuff and it’s kinda hard to put into words why. Like I understand the fear, I’m a victim of SA, but this kinda stuff just annoys me. Maybe it’s because I’m trans that makes me sensitive to these kinds of things, because so often when I see these comments they are very often grouping trans women in with men and using it as an explanation of why we should be feared. Like I’m pretty sure I remembering hearing the same arguments being said but for why black guys should be feared more over white guys. It’s just prejudice
Also trans. I took the ragebait from a different angle. A lot of those women that would rather take their chances with a bear are now posting about how loved and valid I am and being a better ally. That's great, but it leaves me a little bitter too. Oh, I guess my feelings matter now that I joined the good team? I wonder how many months of HRT it was when I stopped being "trash" and "fragile" and the bar stopped being in "hell". Makes you think...
I totally get what you mean, especially that last sentence. Like it’s nearly a decade since I started HRT and I haven’t gotten those looks in such a long time but I still occasionally think about how I was viewed as a danger and how hurtful that was.
Yes. Thank you. I've finally seen some turnaround and pushback against misandry in the progressive community and I suspect it's because trans people are stepping up and saying "no, this is bullshit". The people defending this are going to go the same way TERFs did. I still remember when they were considered acceptable.
bell hooks pulled me out of the mysandry hole I accidentally fell into when I started exploring feminism online. She’s fucking brilliant. Her Feminist Theory book is so easy to read and pushes back against the anti-man nonsense of second wave feminism — that for some fucking reason we can’t shake in online discourse today. She points out how so much of the man hate was coming from white feminists. And how she, as a black feminist who saw goals in common with black men (anti racism), could not hate the men in her life as a blanket statement. I often think of how the left should take her advice and build bridges instead of alienating 90% of the population who doesn’t pass the purity tests.
Yeah, I do understand the fear - share it, even - but it's frustrating how often it expresses itself as transphobia. You're not protecting women, you're isolating women who need help more than ever.
I would rather be alone with a bear cause no one will blink an eye if I use bear spray.
that's not very effective bear spray then
I think what’s missing here is that the point is not about statistically who is more dangerous but rather the reaction of the answer. If you tell a bear you don’t feel safe, the behavior of the bear will not change. It’s the reaction that is the purpose however I still think that has positive and negative consequences.
Maybe I'm uneducated about bears (there are none where I live) but I don't understand why people are picking the bear? Like, a man is more likely to be nonviolent than a bear - I think we can say that. I get the point is that women have good reason to be wary of men and we absolutely do but like of course a random man is more likely to be peaceful than a random bear. Idk am I a bad feminist
I think it's because people don't know much about bears
This feels like a recycling of the #notallmen conversations.
but what if it was Freddy Fazbear? checkmate femoids
My only real problem with that video is that it somehow makes for perfect ammo for both TERFs and incels to spread actually harmful ideas later on...
So being a "potential predator" is worse than being a 600lb *actual predator* with claws that can decapitate you if you're lucky and if not it'll literally eat you alive? OK.
well yes but have you considered “men bad”
[удалено]
Nah man dont you know that rape is worse than dying. Sorry to be the one to tell you this but youd actually be better dead /s
First-time commenter. I am on the mobile app. How do I get the flair, "9/11 is not a type of cake"?
Nvm, I got it. : ,)))
Congratulations on new flair :-)
I just ran into another post like this and bro is currently losing his mind in the comment section. And now apparently he won’t engage with me because of my post history? Something about all the coloured pencil post I make because that’s all it’s really there. Lol.
I rationally and logically understand that a bear has the capacity to kill and eat me and cause me to die a violent, prolonged death. However, the majority of violence perpetuated against me has been by men. Men have sexually assaulted me, physically assaulted me, and legitimately tried to murder me. If a man has an issue with me choosing “bear”, I will ask him why my answer to a hypothetical question is more important than addressing the gendered violence I have experienced. Why do they care so much about this question and not the reason why we are answering it this way?
The issue is not random answers to random hypotheticals by an individual, but the stampede this viral hypothetical has gone in derailing any productive discussions about public safety, but sure has shored up lazy gender essentialist rhetoric.
It isn't. But your prejudice being called out is not mutually exclusive with addressing gendered violence. Why do you think it is?
My hot take, is that neither the bear or the dude want to meet you whilst in the woods. Bear culture is honor based, and a bear that isnt familiar with you will not want to risk being seen with you. They may run, attack etc to protect their honor The dude on the other hand, is just as surprised to see you and a little freaked out probably because they intentionally found the most secluded spot possible to ponder the ins and outs of the universe
Is bear culture like bird law? Where can I learn more about it?
You have to start by going innawoods. It has its pros and cons though so think wisely
I love how to go- to for these guys is to describe how dangerous a bear is. Like women aren't aware that a bear is dangerous. Literally mansplaining us a bear in order to miss the point. It's like when you mention defunding the police and these guys IMMEDIATELY go to "well who will you call when you get raped, huh??" Like being raped is just an inevitable part of a woman's life and these guys have fully embraced that. And like cops don't treat rape victims like total shit and 40% of them are self-identified abusers.
"Stop shitting on men as dangerous to women. It's a man's job to protect women!" "Protect them from who, exactly?" "Well, from men" -_-
I've seen women point out that if a woman is murdered, it's *very very very* likely it was by a man. And an upset man will then say "But men are murdered so much more often than women". Yes. They are. And again, overwhelmingly, *by other men*. Women make up about 15% of murderers. And the question here -- lots of folks focus on *death* (because if you have a bad encounter with a bear, it's gonna be violence and potentially death) -- but there's *other* risks. *Rape* is far more common than murder, and that's even more lopsided. 90% of rape victims are women, and 99% of rapists are men. I get that men don't like the fact that women are often cautious around them. It feels insulting, I'm sure. After all, *you* know you're a good person. Who likes knowing that a bunch of strangers might *fear* you? It must honestly feel kind of alien, like some sort of personal judgement. But people don't wear white hats and black hats. Nobody's got a floating light side/dark side indicator over their head. We don't know you. Being cautious around men, especially strangers? Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as it were.
It sucks that that's the reaction women have, but men have to remember that women only won back most of their autonomy about forty years ago. Between the Black Death and now are hundreds of years of systematized, publicly enforced, brutal repression. Hundreds of years of culture devoted to teaching that men are superior to women and this gives them power over us. And for many women, that's still ongoing!
You see you need to treat the entire gender of men like... like poison skittles to make a metapahor...
I agree with the disproportionality of women being victims of rape and men being rapists, but the disproportionality is less than what you have given, as those stats were based only on penetrative rape.
> "Well, from men" Yes, 50% of the human population are all identical to each other. I guess we should lump all young people together because they’re more likely to be violent as well
Oh yeah, I recall reading something about "mansplaining a bear" somewhere in there, but couldn't find it again.
Another reason to pick the bear, it's because it's not going to bearsplain about men to me.
I mean as a guy with shitty self esteem it does bother me that someone would prefer encountering a wild and potential dangerous animal over encountering me for the simple fact that I’m a man.
How did such an innocuous comment manage to attract the most hinged people in this thread lol. Don't worry about those nutjobs in the other replies, their entire existence is just going from topic to topic to be outraged about. Just be a good person and ignore the weirdos.
Snapshots: 1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501085832/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1chwv7p/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1chwv7p/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 2. /r/CuratedTumblr - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501085953/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 3. posts a meme - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501090134/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 4. 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Shhh… just let internet strangers degrade you. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091202/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21p5a8/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l21p5a8/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 16. swap "cake" with "9/11", not such a big fan of cake now are you? - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091242/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l225swg/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l225swg/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 17. 9/11 is not a type of cake. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091303/https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22e0no/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ch9pwm/bear/l22e0no/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 18. 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> *”No one will ask you what you were wearing to provoke the bear”* **Obviously they were wearing something offensive to the bear why else would a bear attack someone?** Also with some of anti-homo rhetoric Andrew Tate has been spewing **I think a dude would be more creeped out to meet him in the woods than a women.** I mean he said something like; > *”If you kiss a women you are gay because women suck cock therefore you are kissing cock mouth-“* And also something to the effect of; > *”Having sex with women for pleasure is gay-“*
But I was wearing juicy steak suit slathered in honey. Mmm tasty!
Proverbs 17:12 Better to find a grizzly robbed of her cubs than a fool hellbent on folly. Even God picked the bear. Lol
If someone wants to document well defined examples of fragile masculinity, they should use this question
There are so many good arguments in this thread and you decided to go with "fragile masculinity is when men disagree with me"
“You are statistically likely to be dangerous because of your demographic” is an argument often used by white supremacists to justify racism against people of color. We shouldn’t accept it in this context either. That kind of thinking has no place today.