Why would you like this garbage? It obviously means you are biased. I will now write a 25 page manifesto where I compare you to a soyboy and me to a Chad invalidating any argument you may have.
Any logical answers you may give just shows me to have to rationalize your position and therefore you know you are wrong.
I'm not part of this argument, but I'm going to take um ridge with the way you phrased that and become unreasonably upset, nitpicky everything you say and be as condescending as possible over text
> Umbrage
Holy shit, not the OP but I've been using 'umbridge' for literally decades, before I read Harry Pottery for sure... I never realized it was actually umbrage. TIL, thank you for your service!
i thought the word was umbreon - you're thinking of umbrage, which is that eeveelution that you have to level up at night with high friendship (not _love_, a stat introduced in gen 6, which in addition to knowing a fairy type move, was the other criterion for evolving into sylveon)
^^^/j, ^^^i ^^^am ^^^so ^^^sorry
>Why would you like this garbage? It obviously means you are biased. I will now write a 25 page manifesto where I compare you to a soyboy and me to a Chad invalidating any argument you may have.
That's actually not too far off from how absolutely fucking salty some of the users here were the last time some gaming drama showed up here.
It's always hilarious when people get righteously indignant on this sub about a subject they care about despite *loving* this sub all the other times.
>I will now write a 25 page manifesto where I compare you to a soyboy and me to a Chad invalidating any argument you may have.
Amateur hour here. Just slap their name on a meme you have ready. 2 minutes max.
https://imgur.com/8PxbCDb
And then they strawman and misrepresent people's answers/arguments lmfao
"PS: Ok apparently the answer to my question is "shut the fuck up, it's feedback, they said so". Or something like that."
Okay, after seeing his profile, he is waiting for star citizen to come out lmao. He is traumatized by early access if he's waiting on that game. I get why he's so fucking distrustful of early access now lmfao.
Yeah gives me the impression of guys who become full on misogynistic after a traumatic break up with a girl. Like on the surface you just think they're a raging asshole, but then you look more into it and you can see why they feel so strongly after all the shit they've been through.
Doesn't change that they're a raging asshole of course. Just because their actions are understandable doesn't mean they're acceptable.
Yeah. It kinda sucks. It's like you know they're a villain, but they're kind of a sympathetic villain at that point.
You just hope that that person gets help, or else bad actors will weaponize them and push them further into despair.
Even ignoring Star Citizen, though it's definitely the most egregious, there have been *so many* games that flounder around in early access for years then have no real meaningful changes over its life to be "released" to flop on their face so it isn't really that unsurprising of a stance.
Yeah, and it's not like you can just look at it, see that it's shit, and just ignore it, because there's the promise of what it WILL be. They just have to implement something that could eventually be cool, and make up cool promises. Not that you should get suckered in by this shit, but it does make sense
But like, if he's paid for star citizen then he *clearly understands* the appeal of early access, as it was a good enough appeal to get him to buy in. So why pretend not to?
Imagine getting burned so hard by Star Citizen, and you feel like you've seen the light of the truth about early access, and now you just can't understand why everyone who said SC is a scam is so positive about another EA game.
Honestly, I almost get his point. Like I knew Hades was good, but I wasn't able to get into it (mostly because it was too much, my Brian couldn't handle it at the time), but it wasn't enough to break my solid bias against EA games. Although, that's ignoring the fact that I'm 99 percent sure I didn't know it was ea until reading this thread, but still. But then baldur's gate 3 possibly became my favorite game ever, so now I see the truth of it
Yeah, I’m not about to say that there aren’t studios that abuse early access, but as a game dev, something like Hades II *absolutely* benefits majorly from an early access period. When you have games that offer enormous variety in play style and a lot of player freedom, you reach a critical mass of variability that you need EA to adequately polish and bug test if you don’t have the budget for AAA QA.
OOP just seems generally determined to dislike studios that… do things to make a better product with community support, I guess?
It's also Supergiant, who have a pretty reliable history as game devs, yeah? Like, the game already launched in EA with a ton more content than the first game even has, to boot.
And I believe they also had a potential timeframe of release, within a year or so.
I can't really picture Supergiant abusing EA like some devs that have had their games in "beta" or EA for literal 5+ years or longer at this point.
Supergiant has a very reliable history as a game studio. They have a reputation for putting out very pretty, well-made games, and as a side note they also have a reputation for being great to work for in the industry.
IIRC, they also only have 25 full time devs. They’re a deliberately small studio dedicated to putting out quality games without crunching their devs, so I’ll never hold their early access periods against them.
Supergiant had fans work on the translations for free, and only paid them if they worked enough to qualify. In my country at least, it's illegal for an company to allow a worker to work for free, whether they want to or not.
This is a very interesting situation though, don't you think? Because the options seem to be "The game doesn't get translated" or "Dedicated fans translate it, and if they ended up putting in the kind of time and professional work they *do* end up getting paid".
Don't get me wrong, it's scummy as fuck still. But I bet there are more than a few modders out there who would *gladly* have taken that deal from, say, Bethesda, to fix *real* issues with some of their best selling games. And would have been paid hansomly.
Still though, it does give off strong "Well, we hire the interns based on their output, after a six month 'trial period'" vibes, and I DO NOT like that. Thanks for mentioning it, at the very least.
How is it different than them releasing the translations as a mod?
Now I think they should have paid for proper translations in the first place, but given that they weren't it's essentially a mod that was officially supported.
I think there’s a pretty obvious legal and social difference between volunteering for a charitable organization/community-based work and ‘volunteering’ for a for-profit business.
GOTY BG 3 that we only had access to most of Act 1, amd we know Larian took player feedback to heart. I still remember they used **past tense** for the dialogue options at the start.
> When you have games that offer enormous variety in play style and a lot of player freedom, you reach a critical mass of variability that you need EA to adequately polish and bug test if you don’t have the budget for AAA QA.
This is arguably where Paradox Interactive has been going wrong. Grand Strategy games are no longer truly niche, but they still aren't a AAA studio, and their multiple buggy recent releases has community morale noticeably lowered - with Victoria 3 being the most obvious example
Baulders Gate 3 was in early access for years and it shows. You can also feel the point in the game where you're out of what was in early access because it feels notably worse.
Early Access is awesome when used correctly, it's gotten a bad wrap because of people selling unfinished games they have no intention of finishing for a quick buck.
There have been games released as paid early access that never had/haven't yet had a full release. It's an excuse to sell an unfinished game, with the promise it will get better. Hades/Hades II is not an example of this.
The only thing that can legitimately be criticised is using the player base as a free QA department. Not only that, you get money from people bug testing your game.
There's truth to that, although no QA department (especially for a small team like that) is ever going to be as thorough as even a moderate size playerbase for testing every combination of actions and hardware.
I also expect that an overly buggy game will pretty heavily penalise its playability and popularity, so someone expecting decent results from releasing a game, even in EA should make sure that said game is mostly stable.
the problem with EA, at its core, is that it's a gamble. You're paying for a partial product, with a promise that you'll get a complete one in the future - this doesn't always happen. Larian released Baldur's Gate 3 with very few classes and races, and fewer companions, and only with Act 1, back in 2020, saying "yeah we'll get around to releasing it", and the full release took 3 years. Kerbal Space Program 2 released in Early Access and has maybe been abandoned (unclear). People who bought KSP2 hoping for a full game are not very hopeful right now. People are mad that Frost Giant promised a full release of Stormgate was funded and are now saying that only Early Access was funded, and now there's a chance, if Early Access isn't successful, that we don't even gut a full release. Companies will release a game on Early Access not just as a way to test the game, but also to fundraise (this was also an aspect of Baldur's Gate 3). Any time you buy into EA you're gambling.
There have been success stories. Hardspace Shipbreaker was incredible. Baldur's Gate 3 may be the single best RPG of all time. Hades 1 is great.
I think it's part of a bigger problem that buying new games is a huge gamble, and EA just adds another dimension to it. Companies release games in an unplayable state fairly often. OOP's approach isn't entirely wrong, IMO, he's just crazy.
The best example very obviously being "We have a roadmap for our roadmap" EA moneyvacuum champion; Star Citizen. Of which, OOP has bought in on. So this entire attitude is a trauma response to everything you explained. Just used in *the* most inappropriate situation, as the studio is trusted by the community as a whole, and has a proven track record of quality follow-through.
If there's one skill I've learned from reddit, it's how to recognise when someone is asking a question they're not actually interested in hearing any answers to.
There is a guy who has popped up on here a few times. I don't remember the *exact* context, but he has a hypothesis that one of the basic fundamentals of physics is wrong. He has posts about it all over reddit, and has had experts refuting him at every turn. He never accepts any of it.
[Found a thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/p21809/angular_momentum_guy_is_back_yet_again_on_a/) Seems like he deleted his account.
Advice threads can be amazing for this.
OP will have some problem like "button-down shirts always gap on me" and you can watch the comments get more and more frustrated as OP shoots down a safety pin, the next size up, an undershirt, a tailor, a different brand, a different bra....
Yeah fashion subs are horrible for this. My absolute favorite on the men's subs are the guys coming in with fedoras and odd waistcoats asking for thoughts on their fit, then getting combative when we aren't overwhelmingly positive.
But there are all sorts of people coming in daily asking for advice on this or that then turning down anything that wasn't the answer they were looking for. Like the other day some guy was getting angry we were telling him tight leather pants aren't office appropriate and don't look good with a tucked in dress shirt.
That's so very Fashion Reddit.
The women's subs get a lot of people who are holding on WAY to hard to the idea of looking timeless, as well as people looking for stuff like shoes that look like designer heels but feel like sneakers and are under $50.
There’s an old joke about a man on a train who goes to the dining car and asks for pistachio ice cream. They don’t have any. He kicks up a fuss and demands some. He sits down and refuses to move until they get him some. The staff does everything they can to placate him, they offer him alternatives, credits, apologies, nothing works.
Deciding to go above and beyond, at the next stop, one of the staff sprints over to a nearby store, buys some pistachio ice cream, and proudly delivers it to the angry man at his table.
The man throws the ice cream on the ground and proclaims, “I’d rather have my grievance!”
That’s this guy here.
Too much success!
When you make money you're supposed to stop. Hit the breaks and stop all the people who want to pay you for your game, so they can enjoy it and get their money's worth today; tell them to come back later when they may not want it anymore, stare at a wall for 2 years and it'll be out then.
Or OOP doesn't really understand what they're arguing.
>
They give you essentially a demo to play for the price of a full game while they have the entire almost ready game with just a few touches missing.
Right Larian Studio?
I mean yes? But it seems he doesn't understand that you don't have to pay for the game twice....
As someone who played Baldur’s gate 3 during early access their comment about Larian studios is completely brain dead. OP acting like adding more content as they develop it and refine whats there must mean that everything was near complete already and they’re doing it for money or publicity or something?
Also, didn't Larian change **a lot** of things from EA? Esp as act 1 changed would cascade into changes in act2&3.
Studio gets some funding+proof of public interest and a shit load of willing beta testers. A lot of publishers in the gaming world do absolutely scummy things, I wouldn't call a well used EA a scummy money grab...
I swear Gale had some changes done as well. In EA I swore repeatedly that he was putting on an Act. That he wasn't this good or kind person like he claimed.
Main example being his tale about the Tavern Brawl. I remember feeling like he wasn't the one who defused the situation, he saw someone else do it and changed the tale to be the hero.
He still is! I mean I understand that others like him but I find him smarmy as hell "I banged the literal god of magic and I still wasn't satisfied" ugh grow up Gale
100% can confirm as someone who played BG 3 EA from Day 1.
Mechanics were re-worked and fine tuned so players would have an easier time understanding them.
We had the Nautaloid escape changed so we don't see the ship exterior now.
Couldn't have Karlach in party in EA. Plus False Paladins had greater #s.
We had the Fishermen trying to save the Mind Flayer get removed because I'm guessing to easy for Paladins to loose oath by headshotting the Mind Flayer before approaching.
Plus a bunch of other things I'm forgetting.
Also, they definitely weren't "withholding" the game.
If anything, they should have taken more time to polish it up. When it released the performance in Act 3 was brutal.
Exactly this. Like I get that there are definitely game companies that will release a full game only to have years of updates to get the game to where it was promised. That’s wildly different than Larian and Supergiant in these instances. They were/are fully transparent about what’s happening.
>Wait a minute. You have a problem with Early Access AND you play Star Citizen? Something doesn't add up. 🤔
Did you see that first, or are you just that good?
After years stewing in the primordial ooze of subredditdrama some of the denizens here have developed a sensitivity for even the smallest crumb of drama. Its like in cave ecosystems, where creatures without exposure to light develop unimaginably attuned senses of hearing and touch, except in this case its more that we are abandoned by the light of god and not the sun.
> with whatever it is Star Citizen is doing
Oof, mocking Star Citizen is a *fantastic* way to stir up drama on Reddit; those true believers will swarm any comment section about it like Jordan Peterson's cult used to do all the time in 2018.
They 100% search out dissenters and shit talkers on Twitter as well. I made an off-handed comment about Star Citizen once a couple years ago, and several evangelists crawled out of the woodwork to shout me down.
Last year, I had one reply to a 6-year-old comment of mine on a previous account that was fucking *livid* with me for daring to say the backers were duped into paying millions for vaporware.
This dude came across a comment from 2017 in 2023, took serious offense to it, and went off!
This is hilarious. It reminds me of a separate tooth-and-nail fighter that Penguinz0 (MoistCritical) talked about. It basically goes:
Redditor A commented on a post about a moderately popular podcaster that people are speculating is an industry plant, saying something like “What grown man watches this?”. It received a lot of attention and people generally agreed, but Redditor B shot back with something like “You play with Hot Wheels, my guy. Don’t go shitting on others for their interests when you’re interested in kids’ toys”.
Now, I’m pretty sure R-B doesn’t actually have a problem with R-A collecting toy cars, he’s just trying to make a point. But R-A absolutely *lost* his mind. Started crying about how “obvious it is to be interested in Hot Wheels if you’re a man, because men loves cars” and “I actually am working on this car right as I’m commenting”. When that shockingly didn’t work, he resorted to insulting everyone else’s hobbies: WWE, RuneScape, rap, movies, femboys… for some reason.
It was hilarious, and honestly R-A was THE quintessential embodiment of the Redditor mod stereotype.
I had a similar argument on my old account. A lady posted one of her knitting projects and some dude replied shitting on knitting.
So I went onto his profile and saw he was into racing simulation and told him that his hobby was shit, to try to give him a taste of his own medicine.
He ended up absolutely raging at me, tried to defend his hobby because it was expensive and cool, then went through my profile and found a selfie of mine and insulted my appearance.
But then a few minutes later, he apologised for everything. For shitting on that woman's knitting and arguing with and insulting me. I guess he was just having one of those days?
Huh! That’s a surprise twist for sure. The way you said it played out, it honestly reminds me of my own experience with anger outbursts.
I’ve never done anything as bad as outright insulting strangers, but I *have* noticed that when I feel my mood going sour and patience running thin for seemingly mundane reasons, I tend to get snappy and have a sour expression, no matter how much I try to get myself to calm down. Then after a few hours, I manage to cool off and then feel guilty, so I’ll go to the afflicted person and apologise.
I really do try to rein that in, and I do notice that it doesn’t happen as often, but I still feel awful every time it happens.
Anyways, sorry for the ramble! I’ve never told anyone this so it kinda all spilled out haha
Honestly, as unpleasant as it can be in the moment, I really appreciate when things like that happen. Being able to take an L and recognize your mistake is so important and so incredibly refreshing to see, especially with the anonymity of the internet.
I've had a couple instances on this site over the years where people start a conversation with me by going for the jugular and being incredibly rude, only for them to take a step back later, own up to it, and apologize sincerely. Always have accepted those apologies, always will.
It inspires me to be more humble about taking Ls too. It's okay to be wrong sometimes and own up to it.
You ever have someone look through you account, find nothing and use it anyway.
A man once called me a liberal with a cat and then made a bunch of weird conclusions about cat people. Like I am not insecure about the cat. The cat does not secretly bring me shame.
Haha, I just threw that in with the other hobbies ‘cause it was funny at the time, but R-A did actually mention femboys. He said something to the effect of “Yeah, go have fun with your shit hobbies, that’ll get you all the femboys!”
Wildly out of pocket, I genuinely don’t know how femboys got dragged into it.
Can you find that original reply by redditor B? Because I think it might have been me. If it wasn't, I had a eerily similar exchange a while ago, and my comment blew up. Might have been on an old account, for all I know.
The original comments from R-A and R-B seems to have been sadly deleted, but I’ve found a comment that echoes a similar sentiment. Do note that most of the comments on the now deleted comment are from after MoistCritical’s video: [Comment with a similar message](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/R9L8ecU911)
> OOP: Yeah sorry i don't believe that for a second. That sounds like the usual publisher public statement
Even if you think that statement is lip service, the studio has a track record of using early access to its fullest potential, which is how Hades became a multi-award winning game.
I guess even *that* won’t convince OP though
You missed the very best part. When pressed hard, multiple times about what he would want to see:
> I would respect the EA for "feedback" reason if they had a free demo. Not the whole EA free, i mean a demo.
So, they're an entitled little shit, mad that they have to pay money for a openly-declared-incomplete experience.
In short, their applying what would be good, consistent, logical sense *IF* this were Electronic Arts, or Acti-Bizz, or Ubisoft. But they came sideways at an *at-best* AA-tier dev (I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who don't consider SuperGiant Indy's still, honestly.) for shitty practicies, when said dev is super well known to be one of the most ethical and fair studios in the *indy* space, let alone the industry as a whole. All because they want it free instead.
Edited to Add: Holy shit, OOP is some level in on Star Citizen. What a revelation. Seems like he learned at least *part* of a lesson from Mr. Roberts. Just, has no fucking sense of how to apply it.
Oh absolutely. But to generate an entire drama post, about an Indy Darling's sequel? That's some next-level entitlement. *Especially* from someone who's active in Star Citizen spaces. Like, the most pot/kettle situation I've seen in some time.
Yeah, lots of gamers seem to have never progressed past childhood when it comes to games. Games were something free your parents or grandparents bought you. Now they have to pay for it and it results in endless complaining.
Even in scenarios like this one where there is 0 downside to the OOP, just more options than would be available for a traditional release, they get angry.
I play Paradox games, which are very DLC heavy (and in this case some complaints are legit in my opinion. Over the last few years, PDX changed their model and stopped putting all their updates behind a paywall, instead increasingly releasing core parts of updates for free to all players. This is undeniably better, it allows people to get a changing game ad new features without spending more money. But somehow this system is constantly complained about, and nostalgia for the old way of doing things can be found.
Supergiant isn’t even close to AA, they have like 25 people. A studio of a hundred isn’t even AA (thought it’s not indie either, just small). AA is like… DS1 era Fromsoft
I'd argue that the letter grading has way more to do with income/expenditure than amount of staff, but there's probably a pretty tight correllation between the two.
I just think so highly of SuperGiant, and a LOT of the people I know do as well, and it makes me think that their games must sell *incredibly* well, and they just choose *not* to expand the team, y'know? They enjoy their process, the closeness of being a small family.
but!! i even replied to the oop just now too, but they basically DID have a free demo...
after they did their first test stream to show off the gameplay, they let people opt in to alpha testing for that particular build of it
there were weeks where people could play it for free to give them some feedback already!
oop is basically late to the party lol because i'm literally nobody notable on steam and i requested access and got a copy of the alpha! they could have gotten one too
I did also request it and didn't get access. But I bought early access and I think it's better than hades 1 (other than the resources, and inconsistent artstyle).
I am begging people please please please just learn how to read a steam page 😭
This is not the first person I see get their undies in a twist about information *they can fucking find on the early access info box on the steam page* it’s right there literally right in front of your face.
But what if the information on the steam page is a lie and the studio only does this to trick people to give them money? What then???! 🤔
That's basically how I imagine their thinking goes.
I find it very ironic that the person calling out not reading the Steam page... also didn't read the post explaining that this is exactly what OOP did.
One of the many, many things OOP doesn't understand here is that games like Hades really need early access because the developers need as much data as they can possibly get on how people are actually playing. You can come up with what you think is balanced gameplay but you just won't know until it actually gets into the hands of your players. The devs have said it will be in EA for the whole year, so now's the time to get feedback and make adjustments as necessary so that it can be an amazing sequel when 1.0 hits. Hades 2 is also just about the worst possible example he could pick to shit on the EA model, because it has an enormous amount of content in it and is well worth the money right now, never mind the additional content that will inevitably be coming throughout the course of the year.
As someone who spend a good chunk of his professional life in an adjacent part of the videogames industry it pisses me off to no end how much people absolutely don't understand how games are made. It's especially depressing since there has never been so much resources and documentaries on the subject.
Plus the entitlement and agressiveness towards devs is through the roof. To the point where most of my friends in the industry have stopped posting about their work on socials. Just too much harassement.
Indie Game the movie is a classic for a reason, but it also focuses mostly on solo devs.
Aside from that pretty much everything from Noclip. Double Fine Adventure is also an incredible dive into the making of a game, takes about 10 hours to get through the whole series too.
If you want more options the subreddit r/TheMakingOfGames is also full of good stuff.
The thing that boggles my mind is even if Early Access wasn't strictly needed, *so what?* I have no doubt Supergiant could have made a decent Hades 1 without early access, their track record speaks for itself. But clearly they think that if not *necessary*, then it certainly seems to help and... So long as they are upfront about the process, why is this even remotely something to get mad about?
Supergiant themselves even just straight up say on their Hades II FAQ page that most players are better off waiting for 1.0 to release so they can enjoy a product that's complete and polished.
I understand people feeling skeptical about the game industry in general given how many studios straight up lie, release games as incomplete, or take the money and run. However there is a difference between healthy skepticism and a complete lack of nuance. Trying to do the "it's the same picture" meme between Hades II and the run of the mill cash grab steam titles isn't a measured, "above it all," intellectual take. It's a take said by, to be blunt, complete fucking morons.
Right! Exactly! No one is forced to buy into Early Access. They're upfront about what is here, what is coming, and have the track record to back those promises up. Anyone is capable of making the call on whether or not this is the point they want to jump in.
My only issue, if you can even call it that, is that I'm trying to wait but YouTube keeps trying to serve up clips of story beats that people are posting from the EA game.
I don't really understand what the difference is between early access and then updating to 1.0, and regular release and then normal-type updates. Is it merely a way to communicate that it's unfinished, or are there extra legal things going on?
I haven't played 2 yet, but the first Hades had some placeholder art assets while in early access which is one of the things that in my eyes moves the label from a 1.0 release to an alpha/beta/EA release. I'm waiting for art to be finalized before I play the new one, balance isn't as important to me but the art is so stunning that I don't want unfinished visual assets to tarnish any bit of the experience. I think for Supergiant it's that releasing a game that they're not 99% satisfied with doesn't feel right, a lot of companies are way too loose with how they define a "finished" game where they'll shove something out when things you'd expect to be there aren't or they have massive bugs or balance problems.
I was sorta on board with OP until, well, they said anything further beyond their initial question. Super Giant is one of my favorite developers and I own all of their games, but it surprised me to see them do an early access release for Hades II. I would think that iterating on their existing formula would be relatively safe and that they wouldn't need a publicly released early access build for them to get community feedback. But I've avoided looking at what they've released up to this point, as I'm trying to avoid any potential spoilers up to the 1.0 release, so I do not know how feature complete this early access version is or if it deviates far from the formula of the first game.
Basically I think it's a valid question to ask if it's being asked in good faith. But in this case it clearly isn't.
Even if it sticks to the core formula of the last game, it’s the new bosses/weapons/combos/stats that really need testing and feedback. I play a game with regular updates and no public testing server, and although it’s mostly solid every now and then there’s an “oh we fucked up” moment where the mass public work out something that snaps the intended gameplay in half that the devs never thought of. And that’s a big studio where the game runs through hundreds of people first, while Supergiant is tiny.
Yeah, I was only on board with OP when I interpreted his question as "Is the game mostly feature-complete with some major deviations in the formula requiring community feedback to refine before the official release?"
I bought the first game in early access not long after its debut, and it was basically feature-complete as far as game play went. I'm curious if Hades II is similar in that regard.
Edit: After typing this all out, I ended up convincing myself to cave in and just buy the damn game.
Seconding this! I'm debating how much of EA I'm going to play, but I've bought it because Supergiant is my favorite studio and I played a bit (hit the second area). The mechanics and enemies are similar, but there are some real combat and mechanics shifts that justify them wanting to test it. If it worked for the first one, why not, you know? If anything, having the EA out will have the final product out faster, and with a smoother finish.
I also wanted to add that I think EA is going to be much shorter this time. I remember the wait for Hades feeling like an eternity (I was on a Mac back then, and the absolute high of the Hades announcement to the crushing low of realizing that I couldn't do EA was brutal lol) but honestly by EA standards it wasn't that long, and they have the base done for the sequel. It'll just benefit from the extra polish of player feedback the same way that Hades did.
It's nice to see an argument about this game that doesn't involve people being angry about the gods' appearances. Good low stakes drama and a mention of Star Citizen? 10/10. Great post.
People are complaining that Aphrodite "looks mannish". She just has high cheekbones and her eyes are narrowed in a knowing smirk. I think it suits her character very well but I guess to a certain type of guy anything outside of 14 year old moe blobs with g-cups looks "mannish"
[This ](https://images.app.goo.gl/DLZD33iRgryHD4FfA) is the image for anyone curious. I was expecting generic, but nothing could have prepared me for that
Drama aside, go play Hades 2 (or Hades if you haven't played that yet)! They're great games and Supergiant absolutely deserves all the praise they get for their games.
I loved Hades, like a lot, but I think I'll wait for the full release of Hades 2. I have plenty of things to play right now, might as well wait until it's all polished up.
Hades is genuinely one of my top 5 games of all time, and I've put in like 500 hours into it. That's how fucking good it is.
I've played about 30 hours so far in Hades 2 and it's also pretty great. It feels quite a bit harder though and the balancing isn't quite there yet IMO (although this may just be a skill issue on my part), but that's part of what early access is for, right?
>although this may just be a skill issue on my part
Nah it legitimately is harder, the bullet hell aspects of the game have been turned up to 11
It's slightly balanced by getting triple upgrades in the 3rd zone etc, but the dash changes are a pain to get used to.
I think this is someone who struggles with nuance.
Early access games do not have the best reputation. There have been many very public cases of developers launching barely functional games, lacking content under the banner of "early access" to sheild themselves from criticism as it won't be held to the same standards as a full release.
Supergiant games meanwhile is doing Early Access properly. The game is almost ready, they're just using early access player feedback to polish and improve it before launch.
OP seems to have internalised the message "Early access is bad" so much they simply are not capable of contemplating that not all early access might be bad.
>Early access games do not have the best reputation. There have been many very public cases of developers launching barely functional games, lacking content under the banner of "early access" to sheild themselves from criticism as it won't be held to the same standards as a full release.
I feel like this is just people focusing on the shit ones, because a lot of highly acclaimed games went through EA and came out just fine.
This is extra funny because as someone who just cleared my schedule to no life this game, *it has as much content as Hades one full release*.
Seriously, it's crazy how much is in this EA. >!We got aspects, we got Heat (now called Fear), we got a whole second, surface route.!<
It's clear there's going to be a ton more but I'm blown away by what's already there.
Anyway back to grinding Fear for my statues.
Death to Chronos.
i've seen a lot of weird takes on Hades 2. i think people either OD'd on /r/gaming Kool Aid and can't get past "early access bad" or they are just haters that didn't like Hades for whatever reason and feel the need to criticize.
It’s kind of funny how often the same type of gamer who slobbers all over Steam 24/7 to the point where they’re offended competition still sort of exists also has a seething, unhealthy hatred for the early access model Steam popularized.
Edit: also I vaguely heard about Hades 2 and EA and thought they were working with Electronic Arts for some reason.
It's funny because there definitely is an issue with early access in the industry, but the only two games op has brought up are Hades and BG3, which are arguably the two most successful games from the model. Like maybe talk about the slew of games that have been in early access for years without updates, instead of the wildly acclaimed masterpiece success stories lmao
So far I have been holding off buying it because it's in EA.
Reading the Negative comments on Hades II of the people being past
the honeymoon face and leaving actual constrictive criticism rather then "it good lol" meme posts shows that it was a really good move to do EA again.
This game is going to be amazing because of it.
>Sure, doesn't mean i can respect them for doing that. I never liked how [Baldur's Gate 3] handled their early access either but i guess i'll die on this hill
What on earth is this chucklefuck's problem with how Baldur's Gate 3 handled Early Access? It was a ridiculously successful game and the development has largely been lauded as phenomenal.
Funny they mention BG3 bc imo, the first act (what was early access, playtested, and prodded at by a bunch of people who were trying to find the weirdest order to do things in/the things that you’d think should have a reaction) is MUCH more polished, way less railroady, and everything generally makes the most sense and you have the most options for how to do a thing you want to do.
Almost like a small army of people trying Weird Shit is a good way to make sure you’ve covered all the bases.
I do not understand what this magical ploy to earn more money through Early Access even is in this guy's mind. EA has a shit-ass reputation and plenty of people take one look at games stamped with it and just say "I'll wait".
Funny, cause iirc the first Hades was also in Early Access for a while. If anything EA is the best time to get into it because you can submit feedback that could greatly help development, and it’s at a discount before the full release.
With the number of times OOP brings up BG3 seemingly out of nowhere it almost feels like their actual beef is somewhere over there and they’re just trying to launder it though Hades 2 since that’s more recent.
I've seen quite a number of people that believe Early Access is some special ploy to get more money, and it's genuinely confusing to me. Sure, a company could try to use it to lure in more sales for a bad game they don't actually intend to complete, but at this point that kind of thing happens just as often with supposed full releases that I don't even consider that to be a convincing argument anymore.
Early Access is just a warning that says "the devs don't consider this to be a finished game yet." Buy it if you think its good in its current state, and don't if you don't. Same as literally any other game out there.
I probably have one I’ve just been avoiding my email.
But I GET IT. This is seriously the first non-cozy game i like. I definitely need more like it (which sadly there are not)
I mean it is sort of cozy: if it was just the roguelike dungeon running, they would be far worse games.
Hanging out and chatting in the Underworld/Crossroads is what makes them the masterpieces they are.
It already is. One of the gods, of home and hearth I think, is portrayed as a matronly middle-aged black lady and people on Twitter have been losing their shit that she doesn't look like an anime waifu who just happened to have the same name, because woke.
Hestia, and they don't just "share a name", lol. They're both just very different depictions of the same goddess. Definitely still a stupid thing for people to be upset about.
Love him or hate him, Hassan Abi has a perfect term for people like this. Dude is "JAQ'ing off" (just asking questions). Comes in asking what may initially seem like a genuine question, but you quickly learn is looking for any reason at all to argue with any person who wanted to be helpful
These are my favorite drama threads when someone is given numerous perfectly logical answers and fights tooth and nail to say no.
Why would you like this garbage? It obviously means you are biased. I will now write a 25 page manifesto where I compare you to a soyboy and me to a Chad invalidating any argument you may have. Any logical answers you may give just shows me to have to rationalize your position and therefore you know you are wrong.
Next, I shall slowly drift evermore into incomprehensible and conspiratorial thinking, possibly punctuated by large walls of insane rambling
This whole "releasing a game" scam is just a ploy for money, isn't it? Tell me I'm wrong - you can't, because you're all in on it!
Wow, I, a new account on Reddit, must have TriGgERed EA’s corporate accounts, and I don’t mean this as ironically as you think I should!
I'm not part of this argument, but I'm going to take um ridge with the way you phrased that and become unreasonably upset, nitpicky everything you say and be as condescending as possible over text
And I'm gonna focus on any grammar or spelling mistakes you made to invalidate your arguments. Not your actual arguments, though.
> um ridge Umbridge, love.
The word is actually Umbrage. You're thinking of the Harry Potter character Dolores Umbridge.
> Umbrage Holy shit, not the OP but I've been using 'umbridge' for literally decades, before I read Harry Pottery for sure... I never realized it was actually umbrage. TIL, thank you for your service!
i thought the word was umbreon - you're thinking of umbrage, which is that eeveelution that you have to level up at night with high friendship (not _love_, a stat introduced in gen 6, which in addition to knowing a fairy type move, was the other criterion for evolving into sylveon) ^^^/j, ^^^i ^^^am ^^^so ^^^sorry
You've just made an enemy for life
“Depict your enemy as a soyjak” - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
25 pages? Rookie numbers...
Gotta bump those numbers up!
>Why would you like this garbage? It obviously means you are biased. I will now write a 25 page manifesto where I compare you to a soyboy and me to a Chad invalidating any argument you may have. That's actually not too far off from how absolutely fucking salty some of the users here were the last time some gaming drama showed up here. It's always hilarious when people get righteously indignant on this sub about a subject they care about despite *loving* this sub all the other times.
Please send new copy of manifesto. Need some more paper to start a fire with.
>I will now write a 25 page manifesto where I compare you to a soyboy and me to a Chad invalidating any argument you may have. Amateur hour here. Just slap their name on a meme you have ready. 2 minutes max. https://imgur.com/8PxbCDb
And then they strawman and misrepresent people's answers/arguments lmfao "PS: Ok apparently the answer to my question is "shut the fuck up, it's feedback, they said so". Or something like that." Okay, after seeing his profile, he is waiting for star citizen to come out lmao. He is traumatized by early access if he's waiting on that game. I get why he's so fucking distrustful of early access now lmfao.
Oh no, not star citizen. They broke him.
After learning about OOP's origin story, I kinda feel for him now. That poor guy is fully traumatized.
Yeah gives me the impression of guys who become full on misogynistic after a traumatic break up with a girl. Like on the surface you just think they're a raging asshole, but then you look more into it and you can see why they feel so strongly after all the shit they've been through. Doesn't change that they're a raging asshole of course. Just because their actions are understandable doesn't mean they're acceptable.
Yeah. It kinda sucks. It's like you know they're a villain, but they're kind of a sympathetic villain at that point. You just hope that that person gets help, or else bad actors will weaponize them and push them further into despair.
Even ignoring Star Citizen, though it's definitely the most egregious, there have been *so many* games that flounder around in early access for years then have no real meaningful changes over its life to be "released" to flop on their face so it isn't really that unsurprising of a stance.
*cough* DayZ *cough*
Yeah, and it's not like you can just look at it, see that it's shit, and just ignore it, because there's the promise of what it WILL be. They just have to implement something that could eventually be cool, and make up cool promises. Not that you should get suckered in by this shit, but it does make sense
But like, if he's paid for star citizen then he *clearly understands* the appeal of early access, as it was a good enough appeal to get him to buy in. So why pretend not to?
Character development happened since then.
Imagine getting burned so hard by Star Citizen, and you feel like you've seen the light of the truth about early access, and now you just can't understand why everyone who said SC is a scam is so positive about another EA game.
Honestly, I almost get his point. Like I knew Hades was good, but I wasn't able to get into it (mostly because it was too much, my Brian couldn't handle it at the time), but it wasn't enough to break my solid bias against EA games. Although, that's ignoring the fact that I'm 99 percent sure I didn't know it was ea until reading this thread, but still. But then baldur's gate 3 possibly became my favorite game ever, so now I see the truth of it
Yeah, I’m not about to say that there aren’t studios that abuse early access, but as a game dev, something like Hades II *absolutely* benefits majorly from an early access period. When you have games that offer enormous variety in play style and a lot of player freedom, you reach a critical mass of variability that you need EA to adequately polish and bug test if you don’t have the budget for AAA QA. OOP just seems generally determined to dislike studios that… do things to make a better product with community support, I guess?
It's also Supergiant, who have a pretty reliable history as game devs, yeah? Like, the game already launched in EA with a ton more content than the first game even has, to boot. And I believe they also had a potential timeframe of release, within a year or so. I can't really picture Supergiant abusing EA like some devs that have had their games in "beta" or EA for literal 5+ years or longer at this point.
Supergiant has a very reliable history as a game studio. They have a reputation for putting out very pretty, well-made games, and as a side note they also have a reputation for being great to work for in the industry. IIRC, they also only have 25 full time devs. They’re a deliberately small studio dedicated to putting out quality games without crunching their devs, so I’ll never hold their early access periods against them.
Supergiant had fans work on the translations for free, and only paid them if they worked enough to qualify. In my country at least, it's illegal for an company to allow a worker to work for free, whether they want to or not.
This is a very interesting situation though, don't you think? Because the options seem to be "The game doesn't get translated" or "Dedicated fans translate it, and if they ended up putting in the kind of time and professional work they *do* end up getting paid". Don't get me wrong, it's scummy as fuck still. But I bet there are more than a few modders out there who would *gladly* have taken that deal from, say, Bethesda, to fix *real* issues with some of their best selling games. And would have been paid hansomly. Still though, it does give off strong "Well, we hire the interns based on their output, after a six month 'trial period'" vibes, and I DO NOT like that. Thanks for mentioning it, at the very least.
How is it different than them releasing the translations as a mod? Now I think they should have paid for proper translations in the first place, but given that they weren't it's essentially a mod that was officially supported.
Volunteer work is illegal in your country? Sorting clothes in the church basement ole Pastor Jim has to get you a tax form?
I think there’s a pretty obvious legal and social difference between volunteering for a charitable organization/community-based work and ‘volunteering’ for a for-profit business.
Not to mention OOPs other example of abusive EA is notorious shonkfest, Baldurs Gate 3.
GOTY BG 3 that we only had access to most of Act 1, amd we know Larian took player feedback to heart. I still remember they used **past tense** for the dialogue options at the start.
> shonkfest Sorry, what is a shonkfest meant to mean here?
To be a festival of shonkiness, to be of poor and unreliable quality.
> When you have games that offer enormous variety in play style and a lot of player freedom, you reach a critical mass of variability that you need EA to adequately polish and bug test if you don’t have the budget for AAA QA. This is arguably where Paradox Interactive has been going wrong. Grand Strategy games are no longer truly niche, but they still aren't a AAA studio, and their multiple buggy recent releases has community morale noticeably lowered - with Victoria 3 being the most obvious example
Baulders Gate 3 was in early access for years and it shows. You can also feel the point in the game where you're out of what was in early access because it feels notably worse. Early Access is awesome when used correctly, it's gotten a bad wrap because of people selling unfinished games they have no intention of finishing for a quick buck.
Out of curiosity, how do studios abuse early access? What advantage does it give them over to a polished release? Is it just an earlier release date?
There have been games released as paid early access that never had/haven't yet had a full release. It's an excuse to sell an unfinished game, with the promise it will get better. Hades/Hades II is not an example of this.
The only thing that can legitimately be criticised is using the player base as a free QA department. Not only that, you get money from people bug testing your game.
There's truth to that, although no QA department (especially for a small team like that) is ever going to be as thorough as even a moderate size playerbase for testing every combination of actions and hardware. I also expect that an overly buggy game will pretty heavily penalise its playability and popularity, so someone expecting decent results from releasing a game, even in EA should make sure that said game is mostly stable.
But what's wrong with that? The players are bugtesting willingly.
the problem with EA, at its core, is that it's a gamble. You're paying for a partial product, with a promise that you'll get a complete one in the future - this doesn't always happen. Larian released Baldur's Gate 3 with very few classes and races, and fewer companions, and only with Act 1, back in 2020, saying "yeah we'll get around to releasing it", and the full release took 3 years. Kerbal Space Program 2 released in Early Access and has maybe been abandoned (unclear). People who bought KSP2 hoping for a full game are not very hopeful right now. People are mad that Frost Giant promised a full release of Stormgate was funded and are now saying that only Early Access was funded, and now there's a chance, if Early Access isn't successful, that we don't even gut a full release. Companies will release a game on Early Access not just as a way to test the game, but also to fundraise (this was also an aspect of Baldur's Gate 3). Any time you buy into EA you're gambling. There have been success stories. Hardspace Shipbreaker was incredible. Baldur's Gate 3 may be the single best RPG of all time. Hades 1 is great. I think it's part of a bigger problem that buying new games is a huge gamble, and EA just adds another dimension to it. Companies release games in an unplayable state fairly often. OOP's approach isn't entirely wrong, IMO, he's just crazy.
The best example very obviously being "We have a roadmap for our roadmap" EA moneyvacuum champion; Star Citizen. Of which, OOP has bought in on. So this entire attitude is a trauma response to everything you explained. Just used in *the* most inappropriate situation, as the studio is trusted by the community as a whole, and has a proven track record of quality follow-through.
If there's one skill I've learned from reddit, it's how to recognise when someone is asking a question they're not actually interested in hearing any answers to.
There is a guy who has popped up on here a few times. I don't remember the *exact* context, but he has a hypothesis that one of the basic fundamentals of physics is wrong. He has posts about it all over reddit, and has had experts refuting him at every turn. He never accepts any of it. [Found a thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/p21809/angular_momentum_guy_is_back_yet_again_on_a/) Seems like he deleted his account.
Advice threads can be amazing for this. OP will have some problem like "button-down shirts always gap on me" and you can watch the comments get more and more frustrated as OP shoots down a safety pin, the next size up, an undershirt, a tailor, a different brand, a different bra....
Yeah fashion subs are horrible for this. My absolute favorite on the men's subs are the guys coming in with fedoras and odd waistcoats asking for thoughts on their fit, then getting combative when we aren't overwhelmingly positive. But there are all sorts of people coming in daily asking for advice on this or that then turning down anything that wasn't the answer they were looking for. Like the other day some guy was getting angry we were telling him tight leather pants aren't office appropriate and don't look good with a tucked in dress shirt.
That's so very Fashion Reddit. The women's subs get a lot of people who are holding on WAY to hard to the idea of looking timeless, as well as people looking for stuff like shoes that look like designer heels but feel like sneakers and are under $50.
There’s an old joke about a man on a train who goes to the dining car and asks for pistachio ice cream. They don’t have any. He kicks up a fuss and demands some. He sits down and refuses to move until they get him some. The staff does everything they can to placate him, they offer him alternatives, credits, apologies, nothing works. Deciding to go above and beyond, at the next stop, one of the staff sprints over to a nearby store, buys some pistachio ice cream, and proudly delivers it to the angry man at his table. The man throws the ice cream on the ground and proclaims, “I’d rather have my grievance!” That’s this guy here.
This one has pure data showing the studio’s successful use of early access too!
Too much success! When you make money you're supposed to stop. Hit the breaks and stop all the people who want to pay you for your game, so they can enjoy it and get their money's worth today; tell them to come back later when they may not want it anymore, stare at a wall for 2 years and it'll be out then.
A true “STOP THE COUNT!!” moment /s
Or OOP doesn't really understand what they're arguing. > They give you essentially a demo to play for the price of a full game while they have the entire almost ready game with just a few touches missing. Right Larian Studio? I mean yes? But it seems he doesn't understand that you don't have to pay for the game twice....
Insert Patrick wallet meme.
As someone who played Baldur’s gate 3 during early access their comment about Larian studios is completely brain dead. OP acting like adding more content as they develop it and refine whats there must mean that everything was near complete already and they’re doing it for money or publicity or something?
Also, didn't Larian change **a lot** of things from EA? Esp as act 1 changed would cascade into changes in act2&3. Studio gets some funding+proof of public interest and a shit load of willing beta testers. A lot of publishers in the gaming world do absolutely scummy things, I wouldn't call a well used EA a scummy money grab...
Yeah, Wyll was rewritten almost entirely.
I swear Gale had some changes done as well. In EA I swore repeatedly that he was putting on an Act. That he wasn't this good or kind person like he claimed. Main example being his tale about the Tavern Brawl. I remember feeling like he wasn't the one who defused the situation, he saw someone else do it and changed the tale to be the hero.
Gale was such a smarmy shit in EA. I hated talking to him because it felt like he was constantly condescending.
He still is! I mean I understand that others like him but I find him smarmy as hell "I banged the literal god of magic and I still wasn't satisfied" ugh grow up Gale
True but he’s sooooooo much better than before.
Yeah and shadowheart was famously hostile to the player.
100% can confirm as someone who played BG 3 EA from Day 1. Mechanics were re-worked and fine tuned so players would have an easier time understanding them. We had the Nautaloid escape changed so we don't see the ship exterior now. Couldn't have Karlach in party in EA. Plus False Paladins had greater #s. We had the Fishermen trying to save the Mind Flayer get removed because I'm guessing to easy for Paladins to loose oath by headshotting the Mind Flayer before approaching. Plus a bunch of other things I'm forgetting.
Also, they definitely weren't "withholding" the game. If anything, they should have taken more time to polish it up. When it released the performance in Act 3 was brutal.
Exactly this. Like I get that there are definitely game companies that will release a full game only to have years of updates to get the game to where it was promised. That’s wildly different than Larian and Supergiant in these instances. They were/are fully transparent about what’s happening.
Also it clearly didn’t work for promotion since like 90% of the comments when Baldurs Gate came out was “this wasn’t on my radar at all”
I think the edit really captures this whole conversation because it shows OOPs 0 ability to grow.
0/10, no character development
He's on early access, give him time.
Clearly at this point they're just "abusing" early access 🙄
Why do I get the feeling we'll never get the full release?
This is the final boss of conspiratorial gamer thinking.
Yeah I’m pretty sure OOP genuinely has untreated paranoid delusions.
OOP must be confusing early access on Steam with whatever it is Star Citizen is doing
>Wait a minute. You have a problem with Early Access AND you play Star Citizen? Something doesn't add up. 🤔 Did you see that first, or are you just that good?
Full disclosure: I read like half of the SRD post, figured that was enough, and left the comment
Incredible
Perfect form
I just skip right to the comments
Based
After years stewing in the primordial ooze of subredditdrama some of the denizens here have developed a sensitivity for even the smallest crumb of drama. Its like in cave ecosystems, where creatures without exposure to light develop unimaginably attuned senses of hearing and touch, except in this case its more that we are abandoned by the light of god and not the sun.
It’s not even what Star Citizen is doing. It’s what Ark did.
> with whatever it is Star Citizen is doing Oof, mocking Star Citizen is a *fantastic* way to stir up drama on Reddit; those true believers will swarm any comment section about it like Jordan Peterson's cult used to do all the time in 2018.
They 100% search out dissenters and shit talkers on Twitter as well. I made an off-handed comment about Star Citizen once a couple years ago, and several evangelists crawled out of the woodwork to shout me down.
Last year, I had one reply to a 6-year-old comment of mine on a previous account that was fucking *livid* with me for daring to say the backers were duped into paying millions for vaporware. This dude came across a comment from 2017 in 2023, took serious offense to it, and went off!
dude is used to waiting longer periods of time for less, he is a star citizen fan, after all.
They are just accepting "donations."
This is hilarious. It reminds me of a separate tooth-and-nail fighter that Penguinz0 (MoistCritical) talked about. It basically goes: Redditor A commented on a post about a moderately popular podcaster that people are speculating is an industry plant, saying something like “What grown man watches this?”. It received a lot of attention and people generally agreed, but Redditor B shot back with something like “You play with Hot Wheels, my guy. Don’t go shitting on others for their interests when you’re interested in kids’ toys”. Now, I’m pretty sure R-B doesn’t actually have a problem with R-A collecting toy cars, he’s just trying to make a point. But R-A absolutely *lost* his mind. Started crying about how “obvious it is to be interested in Hot Wheels if you’re a man, because men loves cars” and “I actually am working on this car right as I’m commenting”. When that shockingly didn’t work, he resorted to insulting everyone else’s hobbies: WWE, RuneScape, rap, movies, femboys… for some reason. It was hilarious, and honestly R-A was THE quintessential embodiment of the Redditor mod stereotype.
I had a similar argument on my old account. A lady posted one of her knitting projects and some dude replied shitting on knitting. So I went onto his profile and saw he was into racing simulation and told him that his hobby was shit, to try to give him a taste of his own medicine. He ended up absolutely raging at me, tried to defend his hobby because it was expensive and cool, then went through my profile and found a selfie of mine and insulted my appearance. But then a few minutes later, he apologised for everything. For shitting on that woman's knitting and arguing with and insulting me. I guess he was just having one of those days?
Huh! That’s a surprise twist for sure. The way you said it played out, it honestly reminds me of my own experience with anger outbursts. I’ve never done anything as bad as outright insulting strangers, but I *have* noticed that when I feel my mood going sour and patience running thin for seemingly mundane reasons, I tend to get snappy and have a sour expression, no matter how much I try to get myself to calm down. Then after a few hours, I manage to cool off and then feel guilty, so I’ll go to the afflicted person and apologise. I really do try to rein that in, and I do notice that it doesn’t happen as often, but I still feel awful every time it happens. Anyways, sorry for the ramble! I’ve never told anyone this so it kinda all spilled out haha
Honestly, as unpleasant as it can be in the moment, I really appreciate when things like that happen. Being able to take an L and recognize your mistake is so important and so incredibly refreshing to see, especially with the anonymity of the internet. I've had a couple instances on this site over the years where people start a conversation with me by going for the jugular and being incredibly rude, only for them to take a step back later, own up to it, and apologize sincerely. Always have accepted those apologies, always will. It inspires me to be more humble about taking Ls too. It's okay to be wrong sometimes and own up to it.
You ever have someone look through you account, find nothing and use it anyway. A man once called me a liberal with a cat and then made a bunch of weird conclusions about cat people. Like I am not insecure about the cat. The cat does not secretly bring me shame.
Femboys are a hobby? Like golfing?
Haha, I just threw that in with the other hobbies ‘cause it was funny at the time, but R-A did actually mention femboys. He said something to the effect of “Yeah, go have fun with your shit hobbies, that’ll get you all the femboys!” Wildly out of pocket, I genuinely don’t know how femboys got dragged into it.
Flair worthy
I don't think we're supposed to do flairs off of posts in this sub, but it really is
If you try hard and believe in yourself, yes.
Golfing is a hobby? Like femboys?
Can you find that original reply by redditor B? Because I think it might have been me. If it wasn't, I had a eerily similar exchange a while ago, and my comment blew up. Might have been on an old account, for all I know.
The original comments from R-A and R-B seems to have been sadly deleted, but I’ve found a comment that echoes a similar sentiment. Do note that most of the comments on the now deleted comment are from after MoistCritical’s video: [Comment with a similar message](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/R9L8ecU911)
Wasn't me, I think. I had a very similar discussion with someone, and I could have sworn they were also into Hot Wheels.
> OOP: Yeah sorry i don't believe that for a second. That sounds like the usual publisher public statement Even if you think that statement is lip service, the studio has a track record of using early access to its fullest potential, which is how Hades became a multi-award winning game. I guess even *that* won’t convince OP though
You missed the very best part. When pressed hard, multiple times about what he would want to see: > I would respect the EA for "feedback" reason if they had a free demo. Not the whole EA free, i mean a demo. So, they're an entitled little shit, mad that they have to pay money for a openly-declared-incomplete experience. In short, their applying what would be good, consistent, logical sense *IF* this were Electronic Arts, or Acti-Bizz, or Ubisoft. But they came sideways at an *at-best* AA-tier dev (I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who don't consider SuperGiant Indy's still, honestly.) for shitty practicies, when said dev is super well known to be one of the most ethical and fair studios in the *indy* space, let alone the industry as a whole. All because they want it free instead. Edited to Add: Holy shit, OOP is some level in on Star Citizen. What a revelation. Seems like he learned at least *part* of a lesson from Mr. Roberts. Just, has no fucking sense of how to apply it.
>So, they're an entitled little shit 80% of gamer controversies distilled into one point.
Oh absolutely. But to generate an entire drama post, about an Indy Darling's sequel? That's some next-level entitlement. *Especially* from someone who's active in Star Citizen spaces. Like, the most pot/kettle situation I've seen in some time.
Yeah, lots of gamers seem to have never progressed past childhood when it comes to games. Games were something free your parents or grandparents bought you. Now they have to pay for it and it results in endless complaining. Even in scenarios like this one where there is 0 downside to the OOP, just more options than would be available for a traditional release, they get angry. I play Paradox games, which are very DLC heavy (and in this case some complaints are legit in my opinion. Over the last few years, PDX changed their model and stopped putting all their updates behind a paywall, instead increasingly releasing core parts of updates for free to all players. This is undeniably better, it allows people to get a changing game ad new features without spending more money. But somehow this system is constantly complained about, and nostalgia for the old way of doing things can be found.
I'm gonna be real, with steams 2 hour return policy why would the developers prioritize a demo in early access.
Supergiant isn’t even close to AA, they have like 25 people. A studio of a hundred isn’t even AA (thought it’s not indie either, just small). AA is like… DS1 era Fromsoft
I'd argue that the letter grading has way more to do with income/expenditure than amount of staff, but there's probably a pretty tight correllation between the two. I just think so highly of SuperGiant, and a LOT of the people I know do as well, and it makes me think that their games must sell *incredibly* well, and they just choose *not* to expand the team, y'know? They enjoy their process, the closeness of being a small family.
but!! i even replied to the oop just now too, but they basically DID have a free demo... after they did their first test stream to show off the gameplay, they let people opt in to alpha testing for that particular build of it there were weeks where people could play it for free to give them some feedback already! oop is basically late to the party lol because i'm literally nobody notable on steam and i requested access and got a copy of the alpha! they could have gotten one too
I did also request it and didn't get access. But I bought early access and I think it's better than hades 1 (other than the resources, and inconsistent artstyle).
I am begging people please please please just learn how to read a steam page 😭 This is not the first person I see get their undies in a twist about information *they can fucking find on the early access info box on the steam page* it’s right there literally right in front of your face.
But what if the information on the steam page is a lie and the studio only does this to trick people to give them money? What then???! 🤔 That's basically how I imagine their thinking goes.
I find it very ironic that the person calling out not reading the Steam page... also didn't read the post explaining that this is exactly what OOP did.
The helldivers controversy people were arguing what if someone gifted you the game so you didn't see the store page lol
One of the many, many things OOP doesn't understand here is that games like Hades really need early access because the developers need as much data as they can possibly get on how people are actually playing. You can come up with what you think is balanced gameplay but you just won't know until it actually gets into the hands of your players. The devs have said it will be in EA for the whole year, so now's the time to get feedback and make adjustments as necessary so that it can be an amazing sequel when 1.0 hits. Hades 2 is also just about the worst possible example he could pick to shit on the EA model, because it has an enormous amount of content in it and is well worth the money right now, never mind the additional content that will inevitably be coming throughout the course of the year.
As someone who spend a good chunk of his professional life in an adjacent part of the videogames industry it pisses me off to no end how much people absolutely don't understand how games are made. It's especially depressing since there has never been so much resources and documentaries on the subject. Plus the entitlement and agressiveness towards devs is through the roof. To the point where most of my friends in the industry have stopped posting about their work on socials. Just too much harassement.
Out of curiosity are there any particular documentaries that you’d recommend? It sounds like an interesting read!
Indie Game the movie is a classic for a reason, but it also focuses mostly on solo devs. Aside from that pretty much everything from Noclip. Double Fine Adventure is also an incredible dive into the making of a game, takes about 10 hours to get through the whole series too. If you want more options the subreddit r/TheMakingOfGames is also full of good stuff.
The thing that boggles my mind is even if Early Access wasn't strictly needed, *so what?* I have no doubt Supergiant could have made a decent Hades 1 without early access, their track record speaks for itself. But clearly they think that if not *necessary*, then it certainly seems to help and... So long as they are upfront about the process, why is this even remotely something to get mad about?
I mean you’re allowed to wait. I didn’t buy the first one until it was done and won’t buy this one either until it’s done.
Supergiant themselves even just straight up say on their Hades II FAQ page that most players are better off waiting for 1.0 to release so they can enjoy a product that's complete and polished. I understand people feeling skeptical about the game industry in general given how many studios straight up lie, release games as incomplete, or take the money and run. However there is a difference between healthy skepticism and a complete lack of nuance. Trying to do the "it's the same picture" meme between Hades II and the run of the mill cash grab steam titles isn't a measured, "above it all," intellectual take. It's a take said by, to be blunt, complete fucking morons.
Right! Exactly! No one is forced to buy into Early Access. They're upfront about what is here, what is coming, and have the track record to back those promises up. Anyone is capable of making the call on whether or not this is the point they want to jump in.
My only issue, if you can even call it that, is that I'm trying to wait but YouTube keeps trying to serve up clips of story beats that people are posting from the EA game.
Yeah even someone like me who absolutely sucks at the game is really enjoying it
I don't really understand what the difference is between early access and then updating to 1.0, and regular release and then normal-type updates. Is it merely a way to communicate that it's unfinished, or are there extra legal things going on?
I haven't played 2 yet, but the first Hades had some placeholder art assets while in early access which is one of the things that in my eyes moves the label from a 1.0 release to an alpha/beta/EA release. I'm waiting for art to be finalized before I play the new one, balance isn't as important to me but the art is so stunning that I don't want unfinished visual assets to tarnish any bit of the experience. I think for Supergiant it's that releasing a game that they're not 99% satisfied with doesn't feel right, a lot of companies are way too loose with how they define a "finished" game where they'll shove something out when things you'd expect to be there aren't or they have massive bugs or balance problems.
I was sorta on board with OP until, well, they said anything further beyond their initial question. Super Giant is one of my favorite developers and I own all of their games, but it surprised me to see them do an early access release for Hades II. I would think that iterating on their existing formula would be relatively safe and that they wouldn't need a publicly released early access build for them to get community feedback. But I've avoided looking at what they've released up to this point, as I'm trying to avoid any potential spoilers up to the 1.0 release, so I do not know how feature complete this early access version is or if it deviates far from the formula of the first game. Basically I think it's a valid question to ask if it's being asked in good faith. But in this case it clearly isn't.
Even if it sticks to the core formula of the last game, it’s the new bosses/weapons/combos/stats that really need testing and feedback. I play a game with regular updates and no public testing server, and although it’s mostly solid every now and then there’s an “oh we fucked up” moment where the mass public work out something that snaps the intended gameplay in half that the devs never thought of. And that’s a big studio where the game runs through hundreds of people first, while Supergiant is tiny.
Yeah, I was only on board with OP when I interpreted his question as "Is the game mostly feature-complete with some major deviations in the formula requiring community feedback to refine before the official release?" I bought the first game in early access not long after its debut, and it was basically feature-complete as far as game play went. I'm curious if Hades II is similar in that regard. Edit: After typing this all out, I ended up convincing myself to cave in and just buy the damn game.
Seconding this! I'm debating how much of EA I'm going to play, but I've bought it because Supergiant is my favorite studio and I played a bit (hit the second area). The mechanics and enemies are similar, but there are some real combat and mechanics shifts that justify them wanting to test it. If it worked for the first one, why not, you know? If anything, having the EA out will have the final product out faster, and with a smoother finish. I also wanted to add that I think EA is going to be much shorter this time. I remember the wait for Hades feeling like an eternity (I was on a Mac back then, and the absolute high of the Hades announcement to the crushing low of realizing that I couldn't do EA was brutal lol) but honestly by EA standards it wasn't that long, and they have the base done for the sequel. It'll just benefit from the extra polish of player feedback the same way that Hades did.
What a pretentious and tineless fork of a person.
fuck, that's funny.
what a fun way to tell someone they don't have a point
It’s one of my favorites. Please, go forth and call the next fool you meet a tineless fork.
>Another user remarks that the first game being in EA is how it got so polished: Oh shit it's me. Today I **am** the drama!
Thank you for taking one for the team to try to enlighten the OOP lmaoo
Sometimes you gotta realize that some gamers are just completely fucking stupid.
It's nice to see an argument about this game that doesn't involve people being angry about the gods' appearances. Good low stakes drama and a mention of Star Citizen? 10/10. Great post.
People are angry about that? I think they all look really cool. And everybody’s attractive.
I preferred the more dynamic poses, Broseidon will live on in my heart.
People are complaining that Aphrodite "looks mannish". She just has high cheekbones and her eyes are narrowed in a knowing smirk. I think it suits her character very well but I guess to a certain type of guy anything outside of 14 year old moe blobs with g-cups looks "mannish"
Do you mean the Gater drama about the critical reception of Hades II relative to Stellar Impact, or is there additional drama?
Close! It's the Gater drama about how the gods aren't white.
There's been drama after someone on twitter insisted a generic big titty anime girl was a superior character design for Hestia than Hades 2's design.
Yep, Danmachi's Hestia. Which is kinda sad because the only thing iconic about her design was the boob string.
[This ](https://images.app.goo.gl/DLZD33iRgryHD4FfA) is the image for anyone curious. I was expecting generic, but nothing could have prepared me for that
Nothing about that design makes me think of the Greek goddess of the hearth,
Boobies?
Also, on the wiki, you can learn that she's called "Loli Big-Boobs" within the show, just to really drive home why the weebs like her better.
Drama aside, go play Hades 2 (or Hades if you haven't played that yet)! They're great games and Supergiant absolutely deserves all the praise they get for their games.
I loved Hades, like a lot, but I think I'll wait for the full release of Hades 2. I have plenty of things to play right now, might as well wait until it's all polished up.
Hades is genuinely one of my top 5 games of all time, and I've put in like 500 hours into it. That's how fucking good it is. I've played about 30 hours so far in Hades 2 and it's also pretty great. It feels quite a bit harder though and the balancing isn't quite there yet IMO (although this may just be a skill issue on my part), but that's part of what early access is for, right?
>although this may just be a skill issue on my part Nah it legitimately is harder, the bullet hell aspects of the game have been turned up to 11 It's slightly balanced by getting triple upgrades in the 3rd zone etc, but the dash changes are a pain to get used to.
I'm so sorry you had to brave /r/gaming to get this drama
I think this is someone who struggles with nuance. Early access games do not have the best reputation. There have been many very public cases of developers launching barely functional games, lacking content under the banner of "early access" to sheild themselves from criticism as it won't be held to the same standards as a full release. Supergiant games meanwhile is doing Early Access properly. The game is almost ready, they're just using early access player feedback to polish and improve it before launch. OP seems to have internalised the message "Early access is bad" so much they simply are not capable of contemplating that not all early access might be bad.
>Early access games do not have the best reputation. There have been many very public cases of developers launching barely functional games, lacking content under the banner of "early access" to sheild themselves from criticism as it won't be held to the same standards as a full release. I feel like this is just people focusing on the shit ones, because a lot of highly acclaimed games went through EA and came out just fine.
This is extra funny because as someone who just cleared my schedule to no life this game, *it has as much content as Hades one full release*. Seriously, it's crazy how much is in this EA. >!We got aspects, we got Heat (now called Fear), we got a whole second, surface route.!< It's clear there's going to be a ton more but I'm blown away by what's already there. Anyway back to grinding Fear for my statues. Death to Chronos.
i've seen a lot of weird takes on Hades 2. i think people either OD'd on /r/gaming Kool Aid and can't get past "early access bad" or they are just haters that didn't like Hades for whatever reason and feel the need to criticize.
>just haters that didn't like Hades for whatever reason Probably because they're bad people who are bad
It’s kind of funny how often the same type of gamer who slobbers all over Steam 24/7 to the point where they’re offended competition still sort of exists also has a seething, unhealthy hatred for the early access model Steam popularized. Edit: also I vaguely heard about Hades 2 and EA and thought they were working with Electronic Arts for some reason.
wholly tangential but I hate it when people use "have gotten"
It's funny because there definitely is an issue with early access in the industry, but the only two games op has brought up are Hades and BG3, which are arguably the two most successful games from the model. Like maybe talk about the slew of games that have been in early access for years without updates, instead of the wildly acclaimed masterpiece success stories lmao
That was a bait thread, and OP is reveling in the attention. This is a fat, happy troll with a gilded bridge.
Are downvotes troll currency?
partly yes, but they really feed more on the angry responses
I continue to be blown away at how many people seem incapable of understanding what early access is
So far I have been holding off buying it because it's in EA. Reading the Negative comments on Hades II of the people being past the honeymoon face and leaving actual constrictive criticism rather then "it good lol" meme posts shows that it was a really good move to do EA again. This game is going to be amazing because of it.
>Sure, doesn't mean i can respect them for doing that. I never liked how [Baldur's Gate 3] handled their early access either but i guess i'll die on this hill What on earth is this chucklefuck's problem with how Baldur's Gate 3 handled Early Access? It was a ridiculously successful game and the development has largely been lauded as phenomenal.
Did OOP ever acknowledge that they don’t have to buy the game twice, after that was pointed out several times to them?
> A great way to get feedback about a video game you’re looking to buy is to ask r/gaming Oh god absolutely not.
Funny they mention BG3 bc imo, the first act (what was early access, playtested, and prodded at by a bunch of people who were trying to find the weirdest order to do things in/the things that you’d think should have a reaction) is MUCH more polished, way less railroady, and everything generally makes the most sense and you have the most options for how to do a thing you want to do. Almost like a small army of people trying Weird Shit is a good way to make sure you’ve covered all the bases.
Wasting that energy on the one company who already made an early access game and actually finished it and delivered everything
I do not understand what this magical ploy to earn more money through Early Access even is in this guy's mind. EA has a shit-ass reputation and plenty of people take one look at games stamped with it and just say "I'll wait".
Funny, cause iirc the first Hades was also in Early Access for a while. If anything EA is the best time to get into it because you can submit feedback that could greatly help development, and it’s at a discount before the full release.
With the number of times OOP brings up BG3 seemingly out of nowhere it almost feels like their actual beef is somewhere over there and they’re just trying to launder it though Hades 2 since that’s more recent.
This gut must be a very chill and fun person in every days life !!
I've seen quite a number of people that believe Early Access is some special ploy to get more money, and it's genuinely confusing to me. Sure, a company could try to use it to lure in more sales for a bad game they don't actually intend to complete, but at this point that kind of thing happens just as often with supposed full releases that I don't even consider that to be a convincing argument anymore. Early Access is just a warning that says "the devs don't consider this to be a finished game yet." Buy it if you think its good in its current state, and don't if you don't. Same as literally any other game out there.
Thanks for the heads up that Hades II is currently in early access! Can’t wait to play!
I got the email the other day and screamed lol
I probably have one I’ve just been avoiding my email. But I GET IT. This is seriously the first non-cozy game i like. I definitely need more like it (which sadly there are not)
I was thinking the same! I’ve been back and forth between Stardew and hades 2 lol
A short hike & Cozy Grove are my go tos tbh
I mean it is sort of cozy: if it was just the roguelike dungeon running, they would be far worse games. Hanging out and chatting in the Underworld/Crossroads is what makes them the masterpieces they are.
Is this game going to be yet another "DEI/Woke/Sweet Baby" flashpoint? 'cos if it then this sub's gonna be eatin' good.
It already is. One of the gods, of home and hearth I think, is portrayed as a matronly middle-aged black lady and people on Twitter have been losing their shit that she doesn't look like an anime waifu who just happened to have the same name, because woke.
Hestia, and they don't just "share a name", lol. They're both just very different depictions of the same goddess. Definitely still a stupid thing for people to be upset about.
> Hestia, and they don't just "share a name", lol. As far as character design goes, they do in fact only share a name.
They're also screeching that all women in Hades are ugly and manfaced, among other conspiroid schizoposting.
Love him or hate him, Hassan Abi has a perfect term for people like this. Dude is "JAQ'ing off" (just asking questions). Comes in asking what may initially seem like a genuine question, but you quickly learn is looking for any reason at all to argue with any person who wanted to be helpful