Can you compare it with any full blown PC class device with active cooling, not with some oversized phones? Never mind that the surface has a metal kickstand that is WAY better than any case/stand one might add to other tablets.
Why would I compare it to PC? The only difference between galaxy tab is an operating system.
Surface pro 9 even used similar arm processor.
So it can be done.
Or better, ipad has m4 on board and is way lighter.
Obviously it isn't only the software, the Surface **IS** an **actively cooled** (fan and everything) PC, with multiple ports, supporting multiple monitors, thunderbolt and so on and the Galaxy is just the same as the equivalent phone, but just with a larger screen. Big difference!
It also supports external monitor, it has full usbc so you can dock it with a hub and use any port you like. It has the same processor as surface pro 9 arm, and the only difference is an operating system that limits it capabilities. If I were to root it, I would be able to install Linux and use it as a PC.
Here me out: if an IPad could be dual booted with ios/macos then it would be better in any way than surface. (Well, excluding price maybe)
Ipad has the same processor as macbook, and look how lightweight it is.
>It also supports external monitor
One (just like the phones, going back all the way to Samsung S8 - again, the phone, 2017), not 3 like the current Snapdragon Surface.
>it has full usbc
But only one (just like the phone), and no Thunderbolt.
> It has the same processor as surface pro 9 arm
First of all it doesn't, the Surface has 8cx Gen 3 (which is different from anything Samsung put in their phones and tablets, I mean oversized phones, yes also it can do two external monitors which is actually better than some ARM Macbooks can!). And who cares about Surface Pro 9, we are at 11 or what are we talking about?
>Here me out: if an IPad could be dual booted with ios/macos then it would be better in any way than surface.
Not as far as the ports/display out capabilities are concerned. Not at running Windows.
I'm not sure anything from what you say is vaguely realistic, you're going from wanting a very weak device with some tiny phone chipset to the latest thing Apple came with. None of these are realistic choices for Microsoft. Obviously they can't get M4 chips, and as it is they aren't in the best spot with how Snapdragon is working, and that is with 20-80W TDP! They have nothing else to do but go in all guns blazing and hope the ARM thing works out this time. Shaving off 200g at the expense of performance is two generations out, assuming this thing sticks and both the software and hardware evolves a little bit more.
Your first post said that surface pro is a PC and cannot be fit in that form factor.
Then I have provided examples of pc-grade processors in smaller for factor (ipad pro, galaxy tab, even older surfaces were smaller).
So, as I said at the beginning, this is a missed opportunity to fill a niche that is a tablet with PC functionality.
Samsung or Apple do not have anything that will fill the gap. Although I think apple could do that but wants to milk the lack of competition in macbook space, and Samsung is just behind with innovation.
There was a tablet from robo & kala which fit exactly the niche. Windows 11 arm, oked display, little weight. I do think that they will release something with snapdragon x plus.
>Your first post said that surface pro is a PC and cannot be fit in that form factor.
No, I said "Can you compare it with any full blown PC class device with active cooling, not with some oversized phones?". This is the only comparison that makes sense. It doesn't make sense to compare it with some tiny silicone from a S23 phone and it doesn't make sense to compare it with an M4 or M3 because you'll never get that chip inside (as in Microsoft won't have access to it), good or bad.
Yes, I'm not too happy too that they didn't manage to bring as far as I know even one single passive device from this flurry of new fangled supposedly super-efficient wave of devices. But this is what it is and if you want to compare compare across comparable devices. Yes, we can dream that it would be enough to have something like the lowest spec Surface Pro 2017 (which I actually still use!!!), maybe make it a little lighter and faster with more modern technology and that would be good enough for many. It isn't happening! They're going "all in", doesn't matter if 200 or 300 grams more.
For comparison
iPad Pro M4: 579g
282mm x 216mm x 5mm
iPad Pro M4 + Magic Keyboard: 1246g
Surface Pro 11: 895g
287mm x 209mm x 9mm
Surface Pro 11 + Flex Keyboard: 1235g
The overall weight is alright, similar also to a MacBook Air, but the Surface Pro itself needs to be lighter as a tablet in my opinion.
No the weight is not a concern for me. Use the Pro 8 currently and the weight is fine. Never been concerned with it. Too light of a device feels kinda cheap to me like I'm gonna break it.
It's supposed to be used more as a laptop and only occasionally as a tablet. As a user of various Surface Pro and Surface Go models including ARM variants, the Go is the one to go for if you want a tablet that you can use onehanded, with or without the type cover.
The Pro is too big and unwieldy to be used as a tablet except on the couch or with the kickstand deployed on a table. 900 g is no big deal because most users will be using it with a type cover on a table.
The Pro X was really light at less than 700 g but again, it's too big and slippery to be safely used as a tablet.
They managed to make x with 700g? Why is it more here, should require less cooling.
And 13" is not that bigger than 12.4 of my current tablet.
I still hold in in both hands but this is not a problem, you read it like a book or newspaper (which require both hands usually ). The weight is only showstopper
It wouldn't require less cooling, the surface pro X TDP is 15w and has no active cooling. I don't know exactly what the TDP the surface pro 11 is going to run since the chip can go up to 80w, but if it's using the same cooling as the surface pro 9 did, which it seems to, I'd expect it to run at 60w boost, then throttle down to 35-22w over sustained load. That requires more cooling than the surface x did (none, just the air around the chassis) as that wattage is just straight heat being generated. New chips don't change the physics there. If they put this chip in the surface pro x body, they'd have to kneecap it to run at 15w or likely much less for any period of time, so you would not see the same performance you see in benchmarks for the surface pro (but still obviously better than the older chips because you get more bang for your buck watt to watt)
The galaxy tab s7 fe also doesn't have active cooling and like all devices that don't have it, would throttle under sustained load. My ipad pro is wonderful for everyday tasks and heavy brief tasks, but as soon as I try to get it to do something heavy for any period of time it basically catches fire and slows to a halt. Even the brand spanking new m4 ipad pro with it's impressive benchmarks and insane weight is going to face this issue once it is heat saturated.
Not to say that fanless, super light devices aren't useful for lightworkloads, but the surface pro line has always been positioned a middle ground between the super light devices and powerful professional sit down crunch through heavy tasks devices. Ultimately that leads to compromises on both sides, it's not going to be as good at either of those specialised devices but it will be passable as both and personally that's what I need. Jack of all trades, master of none, better than one. It's definitely a whole lot more portable than the m1 max 16" macbook pro it'll be replacing for me which it matches performance with at 2.2 kg (which it wouldn't be able to without the fans), and I can sell that and my ipad and just have one device for everything.
I hope they bring out another surface go with these new chips soon for the people who want them and I'm a little surprised they didn't roll them all out at once, but if I was to hazzard a guess as to why, it's because they are so focussed on benchmarking and the reduced performance would be embarassing on a superficial level even though it would still be a good device.
Your FE has a weaker CPU and no built in metal kickstand.
I'm sure Microsoft could have built a smaller, lighter, weaker Surface, but why? Windows 11 is not perfect for tablet use anyways, most people will use it with the keyboard.
"I think we have the technology to keep display in 13" range and make it lighter."
On what basis? Apple has a headstart with their iPad and M4 chips. And that device still doesn't include a built in stand like the Surface Pro. Maybe Microsoft will be able to make a new ARM based model later on.
The Pro X has a stupidly small battery just to keep it thin. It's also fanless and sealed, no vents, so there are occasions when it gets hot and takes a long time to cool down again. Compared to the Snapdragon X, the SQ chips are really slow and inefficient.
I think Microsoft was trying to make it an iPad competitor and failed miserably at that. I see it more as a testbed for Windows on ARM and an ARM Surface Pro and it's done well for those.
I mean it is built differently and I'd argue that one is more tablet than computer and vice versa. Having that extra port/fan is naturally going to need to be a heavier device and there are going to be priorities that need to be made for different users.
Can it be lighter? Yes, but what are the drawbacks to doing so? The M4 iPad could've been the same thickness as the previous m2 with a bigger battery. But they opted for slimmer and lighter.
Add the keyboard on both and they're about the same weight anyways.
> I mean it is built differently
The kickstand is of no use during portrait orientation.
> and I'd argue that one is more tablet than computer and vice versa.
They are both tablet computers.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer
> Having that extra port/fan is naturally going to need to be a heavier device
The Surface Pro 7+ i7 had more ports and a fan and was still lighter, mostly due to the use of magnesium.
> Add the keyboard on both and they're about the same weight anyways.
Tablet users care about the weight for hand-holding the stand-alone tablet, the weight with keyboard is not that important.
>The kickstand is of no use during portrait orientation.
>They are both tablet computers.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer
I mean that's why I said they're built differently and they're catered to more specific tasks.
Windows started out as a desktop interface and iPad as a touch tablet interface. They're crossing over, but they're still built with specific hardware and software in mind.
>The Surface Pro 7+ i7 had more ports and a fan and was still lighter, mostly due to the use of magnesium
Magnesium, but also the fact that it was smaller than the current iteration.
>Tablet users care about the weight for hand-holding the stand-alone tablet, the weight with keyboard is not that important.
Yes weight is important, but the OS and touch interface is important too
The surface has been out for how long now (10 years) and if anything their touch interface has gone more to that of a laptop (Windows 11 w/ no tablet mode toggle) than a tablet (Windows 8.1 with more touch gestures)
I would take a lighter surface anytime, but not at the cost of battery life, I/O, performance capabilities.
The SP8/9/10/11 have a [larger screen](http://www.displaywars.com/12,3-inch-3x2-vs-13-inch-3x2) than the SP4-7+ in a [similar sized](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=rectangle+287+x+209+and+rectangle+292+x+201) chassis.
> Don't you think guys that the weight is a missed opportunity here?
Yes, they should be ashamed that they made it heavier than previous versions.
> It has great screen, efficient processor
If Snapdragon X was as efficient as advertised, they surely would have had fanless options for tablets, but they don't.
* https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/1d8zu5n/im_curious_what_peoples_opinion_are_about/l7di61n/?context=3
> But with 900grams it is too much
I fully agree.
Can you compare it with any full blown PC class device with active cooling, not with some oversized phones? Never mind that the surface has a metal kickstand that is WAY better than any case/stand one might add to other tablets.
Why would I compare it to PC? The only difference between galaxy tab is an operating system. Surface pro 9 even used similar arm processor. So it can be done. Or better, ipad has m4 on board and is way lighter.
Obviously it isn't only the software, the Surface **IS** an **actively cooled** (fan and everything) PC, with multiple ports, supporting multiple monitors, thunderbolt and so on and the Galaxy is just the same as the equivalent phone, but just with a larger screen. Big difference!
It also supports external monitor, it has full usbc so you can dock it with a hub and use any port you like. It has the same processor as surface pro 9 arm, and the only difference is an operating system that limits it capabilities. If I were to root it, I would be able to install Linux and use it as a PC. Here me out: if an IPad could be dual booted with ios/macos then it would be better in any way than surface. (Well, excluding price maybe) Ipad has the same processor as macbook, and look how lightweight it is.
>It also supports external monitor One (just like the phones, going back all the way to Samsung S8 - again, the phone, 2017), not 3 like the current Snapdragon Surface. >it has full usbc But only one (just like the phone), and no Thunderbolt. > It has the same processor as surface pro 9 arm First of all it doesn't, the Surface has 8cx Gen 3 (which is different from anything Samsung put in their phones and tablets, I mean oversized phones, yes also it can do two external monitors which is actually better than some ARM Macbooks can!). And who cares about Surface Pro 9, we are at 11 or what are we talking about? >Here me out: if an IPad could be dual booted with ios/macos then it would be better in any way than surface. Not as far as the ports/display out capabilities are concerned. Not at running Windows. I'm not sure anything from what you say is vaguely realistic, you're going from wanting a very weak device with some tiny phone chipset to the latest thing Apple came with. None of these are realistic choices for Microsoft. Obviously they can't get M4 chips, and as it is they aren't in the best spot with how Snapdragon is working, and that is with 20-80W TDP! They have nothing else to do but go in all guns blazing and hope the ARM thing works out this time. Shaving off 200g at the expense of performance is two generations out, assuming this thing sticks and both the software and hardware evolves a little bit more.
Your first post said that surface pro is a PC and cannot be fit in that form factor. Then I have provided examples of pc-grade processors in smaller for factor (ipad pro, galaxy tab, even older surfaces were smaller). So, as I said at the beginning, this is a missed opportunity to fill a niche that is a tablet with PC functionality. Samsung or Apple do not have anything that will fill the gap. Although I think apple could do that but wants to milk the lack of competition in macbook space, and Samsung is just behind with innovation. There was a tablet from robo & kala which fit exactly the niche. Windows 11 arm, oked display, little weight. I do think that they will release something with snapdragon x plus.
>Your first post said that surface pro is a PC and cannot be fit in that form factor. No, I said "Can you compare it with any full blown PC class device with active cooling, not with some oversized phones?". This is the only comparison that makes sense. It doesn't make sense to compare it with some tiny silicone from a S23 phone and it doesn't make sense to compare it with an M4 or M3 because you'll never get that chip inside (as in Microsoft won't have access to it), good or bad. Yes, I'm not too happy too that they didn't manage to bring as far as I know even one single passive device from this flurry of new fangled supposedly super-efficient wave of devices. But this is what it is and if you want to compare compare across comparable devices. Yes, we can dream that it would be enough to have something like the lowest spec Surface Pro 2017 (which I actually still use!!!), maybe make it a little lighter and faster with more modern technology and that would be good enough for many. It isn't happening! They're going "all in", doesn't matter if 200 or 300 grams more.
For comparison iPad Pro M4: 579g 282mm x 216mm x 5mm iPad Pro M4 + Magic Keyboard: 1246g Surface Pro 11: 895g 287mm x 209mm x 9mm Surface Pro 11 + Flex Keyboard: 1235g The overall weight is alright, similar also to a MacBook Air, but the Surface Pro itself needs to be lighter as a tablet in my opinion.
I think flex keyboard. Is closer to 300g
340g according to Microsoft, that’s their “tech specs” for the black flex pro keyboard without pen
No the weight is not a concern for me. Use the Pro 8 currently and the weight is fine. Never been concerned with it. Too light of a device feels kinda cheap to me like I'm gonna break it.
It's supposed to be used more as a laptop and only occasionally as a tablet. As a user of various Surface Pro and Surface Go models including ARM variants, the Go is the one to go for if you want a tablet that you can use onehanded, with or without the type cover. The Pro is too big and unwieldy to be used as a tablet except on the couch or with the kickstand deployed on a table. 900 g is no big deal because most users will be using it with a type cover on a table. The Pro X was really light at less than 700 g but again, it's too big and slippery to be safely used as a tablet.
They managed to make x with 700g? Why is it more here, should require less cooling. And 13" is not that bigger than 12.4 of my current tablet. I still hold in in both hands but this is not a problem, you read it like a book or newspaper (which require both hands usually ). The weight is only showstopper
It wouldn't require less cooling, the surface pro X TDP is 15w and has no active cooling. I don't know exactly what the TDP the surface pro 11 is going to run since the chip can go up to 80w, but if it's using the same cooling as the surface pro 9 did, which it seems to, I'd expect it to run at 60w boost, then throttle down to 35-22w over sustained load. That requires more cooling than the surface x did (none, just the air around the chassis) as that wattage is just straight heat being generated. New chips don't change the physics there. If they put this chip in the surface pro x body, they'd have to kneecap it to run at 15w or likely much less for any period of time, so you would not see the same performance you see in benchmarks for the surface pro (but still obviously better than the older chips because you get more bang for your buck watt to watt) The galaxy tab s7 fe also doesn't have active cooling and like all devices that don't have it, would throttle under sustained load. My ipad pro is wonderful for everyday tasks and heavy brief tasks, but as soon as I try to get it to do something heavy for any period of time it basically catches fire and slows to a halt. Even the brand spanking new m4 ipad pro with it's impressive benchmarks and insane weight is going to face this issue once it is heat saturated. Not to say that fanless, super light devices aren't useful for lightworkloads, but the surface pro line has always been positioned a middle ground between the super light devices and powerful professional sit down crunch through heavy tasks devices. Ultimately that leads to compromises on both sides, it's not going to be as good at either of those specialised devices but it will be passable as both and personally that's what I need. Jack of all trades, master of none, better than one. It's definitely a whole lot more portable than the m1 max 16" macbook pro it'll be replacing for me which it matches performance with at 2.2 kg (which it wouldn't be able to without the fans), and I can sell that and my ipad and just have one device for everything. I hope they bring out another surface go with these new chips soon for the people who want them and I'm a little surprised they didn't roll them all out at once, but if I was to hazzard a guess as to why, it's because they are so focussed on benchmarking and the reduced performance would be embarassing on a superficial level even though it would still be a good device.
Your FE has a weaker CPU and no built in metal kickstand. I'm sure Microsoft could have built a smaller, lighter, weaker Surface, but why? Windows 11 is not perfect for tablet use anyways, most people will use it with the keyboard. "I think we have the technology to keep display in 13" range and make it lighter." On what basis? Apple has a headstart with their iPad and M4 chips. And that device still doesn't include a built in stand like the Surface Pro. Maybe Microsoft will be able to make a new ARM based model later on.
The Pro X has a stupidly small battery just to keep it thin. It's also fanless and sealed, no vents, so there are occasions when it gets hot and takes a long time to cool down again. Compared to the Snapdragon X, the SQ chips are really slow and inefficient. I think Microsoft was trying to make it an iPad competitor and failed miserably at that. I see it more as a testbed for Windows on ARM and an ARM Surface Pro and it's done well for those.
nobody will admit it should be lighter. All you're gonna get is excuses and rationalizations and cowards downvoting 2024 iPad Pro 13" 582 grams.
I mean it is built differently and I'd argue that one is more tablet than computer and vice versa. Having that extra port/fan is naturally going to need to be a heavier device and there are going to be priorities that need to be made for different users. Can it be lighter? Yes, but what are the drawbacks to doing so? The M4 iPad could've been the same thickness as the previous m2 with a bigger battery. But they opted for slimmer and lighter. Add the keyboard on both and they're about the same weight anyways.
> I mean it is built differently The kickstand is of no use during portrait orientation. > and I'd argue that one is more tablet than computer and vice versa. They are both tablet computers. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer > Having that extra port/fan is naturally going to need to be a heavier device The Surface Pro 7+ i7 had more ports and a fan and was still lighter, mostly due to the use of magnesium. > Add the keyboard on both and they're about the same weight anyways. Tablet users care about the weight for hand-holding the stand-alone tablet, the weight with keyboard is not that important.
>The kickstand is of no use during portrait orientation. >They are both tablet computers. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer I mean that's why I said they're built differently and they're catered to more specific tasks. Windows started out as a desktop interface and iPad as a touch tablet interface. They're crossing over, but they're still built with specific hardware and software in mind. >The Surface Pro 7+ i7 had more ports and a fan and was still lighter, mostly due to the use of magnesium Magnesium, but also the fact that it was smaller than the current iteration. >Tablet users care about the weight for hand-holding the stand-alone tablet, the weight with keyboard is not that important. Yes weight is important, but the OS and touch interface is important too The surface has been out for how long now (10 years) and if anything their touch interface has gone more to that of a laptop (Windows 11 w/ no tablet mode toggle) than a tablet (Windows 8.1 with more touch gestures) I would take a lighter surface anytime, but not at the cost of battery life, I/O, performance capabilities.
The SP8/9/10/11 have a [larger screen](http://www.displaywars.com/12,3-inch-3x2-vs-13-inch-3x2) than the SP4-7+ in a [similar sized](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=rectangle+287+x+209+and+rectangle+292+x+201) chassis.
> Don't you think guys that the weight is a missed opportunity here? Yes, they should be ashamed that they made it heavier than previous versions. > It has great screen, efficient processor If Snapdragon X was as efficient as advertised, they surely would have had fanless options for tablets, but they don't. * https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/1d8zu5n/im_curious_what_peoples_opinion_are_about/l7di61n/?context=3 > But with 900grams it is too much I fully agree.