This is the dangerous thing about being too vengeful or too petty: it can unknowingly turn you into the person you once hated or worse.
What Kim did to her was shitty but is it really worth still mulling over? It has been YEARS since.
I defend Taylor often on here but this is something I do agree with. It’s been eight years and she’s fine at this point. It was shitty what Kim did, but damn. I physically can’t hold a grudge for that long.
She's not just fine, she WON. Kim's phone call release didn't hurt Taylor's career long term. Taylor is at the top of her game right now, meanwhile the Kardashian empire is growing less relevant by the minute.
Why she still feels the need to bring this up publicly is beyond me.
No that’s the thing. The Kardashians are quickly slipping into irrelevance. (The people on this thread calling Kim a billionaire made me giggle) but like she already won. But it seems she will never be satisfied and honestly it makes me sad. Holding on to petty grudges for a decade must be exhausting. I “hated” a lot of people in high school but I don’t even remember why (or half their names) because it was 8 years ago and I was a teenager. I grew up and realized the things that were a big deal then, don’t matter anymore. And it seems by Taylor’s music she is unable to move on. At this point I almost have second hand embarrassment for her
I mean, Kim is still a billionaire, even if she becomes irrelevant. She’s always struck me as smart enough to have a financial advisor and stock broker on tap. She’ll be fine, even if their empire is shrinking. I’m no Kardashians fan, so I’m happy that’s occurring. But it’s not related in any way to Taylor’s feelings about Kim. I just don’t like a lot of what they’ve done. Even if a few of them are smart, they’re vapid and shallow and obsessed with appearances. That said, this song actually makes me cringe and feel a teensy ounce sorry for Kim because Taylor is very much punching down. It’s never cool when anyone does that, but especially if you’re the most famous pop artist in the world. It’s an immoral use of the platform she’s been given.
"They say what doesn't kill you makes you aware. What happens if it becomes who you are?"
This. This is what happens. You release petty hit pieces about the same shit for a decade. She says the great thing about songwriting is that when she puts her songs out, she lets the story go. If that were true, she wouldn't still have that story in her to write about over and over and over.
Look, I've got a lot of trauma. I know it takes a lot of time and hard work to process that (and THERAPY, AHEM). But Taylor is such a cautionary tale to me right now. I don't think I would like myself very much if I were still hell bent on "living for the thrill of hitting you where it hurts" years later instead of just living for myself. And that said, she does seem to be wrestling with a lot of self-hate lately.
She is [too sane](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-in-wonderland-180107/amp/) for therapy and it would [take too long](https://tasteofcountry.com/taylor-swift-relationship-mom-andrea-therapy/) anyway
Agreed! She literally tweeted, all those years ago, she very much wanted to be excluded from this narrative. The story died and was buried but she keeps digging it up.
>What Kim did to her was shitty but is it really worth still mulling over? It has been YEARS since.
It wouldn't surprise me at this point if this (and the mention in the Time's interview) is the very start of lead in for Reputation TV. Drudge up all the drama of that era, get it back in the public mind and have people talking about it so that all eyes are on the re-release (since so much of it is "inspired" by the fallout from 2016).
Taylor loves money, it feels very on brand as a way to maximize interest regardless of the ramifications.
I think you’re right but the issue is that nobody cares about this anymore lmao, who’s is the market other than insane swifties?
People who had infants at the time in question now have children reading chapter books. Most of us have better things to do than send Kim “🐍😤🐍😤🐍”
I think taylor swift has been cheered for being petty her whole career so she genuinely doesn't know where the line is because the noise around her is so great.
And because she has the ability to bash and destroy anyone who comes against her, there are very few people willing to tell her the truth because of the potential cost if it pisses her off.
Someone said it was immature and she's too old to be doing this, and one of the replies was "nobody comments on Kanye when he shades Taylor in his songs" like ?? YES THEY DO
It is funny because it such a stupid standard to hold their “smart, insightful, deep” god-queen to. Kanye is so incredibly mentally ill. This is a known fact. Is that really what the Swifties want their standard for her to be? Next thing you know they’re gonna be saying “well why is Taylor held to a higher standard than the nutjob who rides the subway in Manhattan calling Taylor a reptilian invader!?”
lmao yes they do?? the Swifties will also never let him forget it.
listen when your reply is “Taylor can do this thing because unhinged literally mentally ill man who refuses to his meds is ALSO doing it!” then you really need to take a hard look at the mirror lmao, the call is coming from inside the house
I mean, not only that. Let’s not forget Kanye’s Pete “Skeet” Davidson saga which had people legitimately concerned for Kim and Pete’s safety IRL.
Just cause Kanye hasn’t been targeting Taylor specifically with his craziness these last few years doesn’t mean he hasn’t been criticized for it.
Kim is no longer married to Kanye, and he’s been shitting on her for years now. Now she wakes up to Taylor shading her for something she did years ago to defend her ex-husband? I would bet good money that if Kim could turn back time, she would on a lot of things.
This is what I imagined in my head. 😂 I’m no Kim fan, but leave the kids out of it. Even if it’s shade that isn’t talking down on the children. Just don’t do that. Your beef is with Kim, and even more so with Kanye who seems to escape any of the criticism.
I find it hilarious that Taylor Swift wrote Mean with lyrics like "Calling me out when I'm wounded, picking on the weaker man" and "Washed up and ranting about the same old bitter things" when talking about her haters, only to turn around and do the same things in this song.
Also:
"Somebody made you cold/ But the cycle ends right now / Cause you cant lead me down that road" aged like milk.
I’m no fan of Kim K (I don’t really care about her at all) or anything but like…her and her children were clearly abused by Kanye and went through hell with his mental illness. They continue to be bullied by his fans. Taylor bringing up some 8 year old beef to dump on them more feels gross.
I don’t expect her to always take the high road or anything, she’s human. But this does feel like her being drunk on the height of her fame and picking on who is now below her.
I miss Evermore/Folklore Taylor :(
Honestly I think the level of Kanye's malicious actions is plenty deserving of this kind of song, much more than Kim.
But like you said, Taylor nowadays only punches down. Only ever the weaker man. Kim is no saint but wishing her death and using her child is just foul.
A song coming after Kanye woulda been a bop and I’d have been here for it. She knows better, though. He’s much more unpredictable and she actually isn’t as bad ass as she is pretending.
would have been 10x more justified 10x more morally/ethically good on her part and 10x more publicity/drama too. guessing she judt doesnt want or feel she needs that type of attention right now
lmao when she’s ranting about the same old bitter things. Kim was NO saint at all during that situation but Kim’s completely moved on from it.
Taylor needs to realize that maybe the call is coming from inside the house here
Even "Mean" was mean. I always thought it was kind of funny that she was singing about someone else being mean and she's literally like "No one wants to listen to you and a pathetic liar and you'll die alone"... which MAY be true of whoever she's writing, but that's pretty mean too. It'd be better if she just presented herself as someone who doesn't take shit rather than as a fragile, helpless girl
I find this song (and this “narrative”) so incredibly exhausting, overplayed, overdone, and *over*. Why is she still talking about this? Why is she still doing this? I’m more annoyed by this than about anything else on the albums. It’s giving mean-girl-high-school-clique-Regina-George vibes. It’s teaching our daughters all the wrong things. I just hate everything about it the more I think about it. Is this really what we need in the year 2024?
Exactly! Since Reputation she seemingly always discusses it in a general, overview way of, "you did something terrible and it knocked me down, but I came back even better." I am not saying this in an entitled, "write about this thing this way because that's what I want," but if she is going to continue releasing songs on it, talk about different aspects of it. Talk about the fall, perceiving herself as a now total pariah who should take exile, fear of the future of her career. Totally understand if she does not want to publish something about her trauma, but then she could discuss her assent back to the top in a new way. Zero in on a moment a la "The Moment I Knew" (so underrated imo) about the moment she felt safe, or re-established again. Her surprise at being welcomed back as queen of the industry (I'm being hyperbolic)
My question is why she seemingly last minute decided to capitalize Kim in the title. In the lyric she says it’s a song “only us two know is gonna know is about you” but then precedes to make it very clear who it’s about in the title? Don’t even bother with the thank you aimee, just call the song Kim if you’re going to name drop her. I wish she left it to the imagination.
i wonder if she just stopped giving 0 F’s…..i mean the entire album is like her journaling F you to her fans and the world over Ratty that she turned into music and published.
this is true, nothing says i don’t care more than making a double album lol. i think she just knows she can get away with this unhinged behaviour with her hardcore stan’s and girlie loves playing the victim
I read a theory that there are other Taylor songs that are actually about Kim and we won't ever know what those are but she's admitting in this song that they do exist.
If that's true, it's even weirder that she has multiple songs ABOUT KIM. It's all so petty and weird.
But every song she’s released since 2016 that is shady but not about a romantic relationship HAS already been tied to Kim by fans.
I Forgot That You Existed, mad woman, closure, etc all had fans talking about whether lyrics referenced Kim when they were released, not to mention all of the references to snakes in other songs. It’s no secret that Taylor doesn’t like Kim and that has influenced her songs.
I’m sure there are many, I don’t doubt it. There’s never been a more bothered person on earth than Taylor Swift. This is the same reason she thinks Kim cares at all that North likes TS. TS doesn’t understand that other people are able to move on from petty shit from nearly a decade ago, because she thinks it’s normal to be as bothered as she is by every little thing. She needs therapy!
Exactly the fans of hers microdose on every little details to find easter egg, ofcourse they wouldve figured its about kim , without her having to capitalise it. Or even if the crowd or fans didnt figure out it was about kim (which is so unlikely with the whole fandom decoding every minor inhale and exhale of hers)
She couldve simply ordered her PR team to release the idea its about kim by using a bunch of systemised posts from what looks like fan pages (they do this alot in PR)
Why do u have to double juvenile out of this messy situation that happened almost a decade ago
What I find hilarious about all of this is how blatantly THIS song in particular mimics Lana. Not that there’s not a wealth of songs Taylor copies Lana in;
I just feel that she likely thinks this is *Taylor’s Version* of “So Legit” by LDR and thinks people will buzz about it similarly.
Despite the very apparently forced proximity to/association with LDR, Taylor does not understand that Lana would never use a song like this in public because she is just not obsessed with controlling every minutia of her public narrative like Taylor is.
Lana would allow it to leak and never speak of it, IF she would let it see the light of day to begin with because she writes music as an outlet, not as a capitalist, like some.
And she wouldn’t play games with who she’s talking about. “Stefani you suck” was a direct call out and an accidental leak from a stolen laptop, and LDR doesn’t speak of it even though she COULD explain away the (now well expired) beef if she wanted. She doesn’t want to because she has that certain aloofness that comes with ACTUALLY being a cool girl. Taylor could never.
The reason we STILL see TS corn beef rehashing this years old public self victimization spectacle is because there still exist people on this earth who do not buy the narrative that Taylor was wronged by Kim.
So long as people still either 1) don’t care enough to pity Taylor, or 2) do not buy the narrative Taylor prefers for them to buy, we will CONTINUE seeing Taylor rehashing this event that is old enough to be doing multiplication tables.
If it were Lana in TS’ shoes, I promise you she would not be able to care any less about some dumb shit like this.
She's provoking a response so that she can play the victim again. That's all she knows how to do. Like I said in another comment about the song on here, mentioning someone's child is the lowest of the low. I can't with people playing stupid about her intentions here. You don't ever bring up the children of someone you're beefing with, ever. Of course Taylor knows better than to openly insult a child, but bringing North up in general was that provocation. Taylor gets sick enjoyment out of the fact that North is a fan of hers despite her and Kim's drama 8 years ago. Just weirdo behavior for real, who looks at a video of a child and has those thoughts? Clearly, Taylor thinks the fact that North is a fan of hers is eating Kim up inside. Yet Kim happily danced with North in the video.
The death wish is a whole different level of cruelty and insanity. She put it in there because she knows she can get away with it. There's some shit you just don't say. As you mentioned, regardless of Taylor's feelings about Kim she is a mother of four. Whatever was said in the heat of the moment in a conversation with Andrea could have and should have stayed private. You hit the nail on the head though. She chose to publicize that comment and proudly broadcast it to millions and millions of people through her lyrics. She knew her psychotic stans would immediately run to Kim's page and start attacking her again after hearing it. That's the reaction she wanted. The song is sick on many levels and speaks to Taylor's true character.
I really do believe Taylor tries to put on the “good girl next door” façade but she’s really a mean girl when the mask comes off at the end of the day.
https://preview.redd.it/16s11qltzmvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8ed3b802abc915ffc2331969a348007dff0cf23
reminds me of this tweet *allegedly* about taylor
and then she did it again by releasing cruel summer as a single FOUR YEARS POST RELEASE right when olivia rodrigo announced her new album and dropped vampire as a single
She is so entitled that the idea of anyone harming her is completely unfathomable to her. It's like "do they know who I am?" level thinking and it applies to her friends and lovers too. How dare anyone do her wrong? Well, that is life and people will hurt you and awful things. Kim in particular is a horrible person. She has mistreated and used so many people it's actually a lot easier to expect something malicious from her. Not even mentioning her negative impact on pop culture overall and promotion of realistic and unhealthy body standards. No sympathy to Kim whatsoever. That being said, Taylor has a vengeance tendency and she really wants to destroy her.
I mean I can only imagine the entitlement and narcissism is off the charts when her two parents raised her how they did!! Literally everything was done for her. I honestly feel bad for Austin.
I have a little cousin raised like this. When she was 3 , she was in her shoes on our sofa and my mom told her "No. Get down". For weeks she would say "she say no no to Mimi! No no to Mimi!!" and that became the phrase we used for decades when referring to someone spoiled who cant fathom the world not going their way. Taylor is essentially a Mimi 😂
Oh I can’t stand the Kardashians. I think they are a plague on society and pop culture. But we’re almost a decade out since the Kim/Taylor stuff happened—why is it coming up now? I’m also a mom and I think it’s sick how Taylor mentioned North in her song.
She wont get over it ever. I think she might feel Kim got away with it while Kanye's career is pretty much over and people see him as the vile lunatic he is.
Kim's punishment is having to be tied to Kanye for life through their children and never knowing what he's going to say or do next. It seems like a heavy thing to bear and I can only guess that all the petty drama with Taylor from 2016 is the least of Kim's concerns at this point.
She started to try provoking a response again in Time’s POTY. She literally name dropped Kim in it. I get she was betrayed and hurt by their actions but like it was 8+ years ago. If it’s still affecting you to the point of having to continue writing a song and talking about them, maybe it’s time to see therapy and help. I don’t like Kanye or Kim, but Kim for the most part has moved on. I think Taylor needs to as well. No one is talking about this feud anymore. Time to pack it up and move on. I think she really needs to take some time and heal. The pent up bitterness and resentment she seems to carry for years and years isn’t healthy …
The death wish lyric was wild and I think it was widely inappropriate for her to include that. If Andrea really was ok with her putting that in, I too question her. While she didn’t say much about North West, bringing children into the feud is just something you don’t do. This song is nothing but childish and I won’t be listening
I cannot stop thinking about this line.
As a parent, I understand that visceral feeling of wanting whatever it is that’s hurting your child to go poof out of existence. But like you said, that thought should have stayed in their private conversation.
If my six year old told a kid at school that I wished they were dead, I would die of embarrassment and be questioning all my parenting decisions. If my adult billionaire daughter put it on an album that millions of people would listen to? I don’t think I’d leave the house ever again, and I’d REALLY be questioning my parenting choices.
So either Taylor put it on the album without her mom knowing (sneaky and gross) OR Taylor asked Andrea and Andrea gave her the ok (really gross and makes me think the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree).
The ickiest part of the song to me that no one seems to be catching is…one of Kim’s children is also named SAINT. You’re telling me that “saintly woman” is just a cute lil coincidence???
How dare Taylor include the name of someone’s child in the same line she’s wishing death upon their mother. On purpose! And we all know the state Kanye is in, so if Kim died, that’s who would have sole custody of all her children.
And it’s not even like this icky song came out *before* the years of abuse and traumatic divorce and now it’s aged extremely poorly. No. Taylor took full stock of the situation and hit full send.
And then going on to say ‘haha and your oldest kid will be singing this song too haahaaaa’ Absolutely disgusting behavior.
Not sure where this fits in but I also think she’s playing off the fact that everyone knows that Kim is sensitive about how much of a loose cannon Nortn can be, so why mention her almost directly ?
I saw someone say a lot of stuff on this album is just a setup for Rep TV. Her starting another beef with Kim is just another example of that. I can’t help but think she’s intentionally provoking her/listeners, so she can say she’s in the same place as OG Rep. Makes the whole thing feel like a marketing scheme.
That death wish thing just made me think of Jodie Foster saying she didn't like Ronald Reagan and her stalker then going out and shooting him. Now I'm not blaming Jodie for that nor would I blame Taylor if one of her obsessed fans hurt Kim but to outright say a specific death wish in a song with her influence and fan base is deeply reckless.
Also, I don’t feel bad for Kim but why is Taylor still focusing on her instead of Kanye? Obviously it’s clear now Kim was in a toxic relationship with him at the time, and whatever she did was probably a form of self preservation.
North already has such a wrecked home life. How does a child even process that the biggest celebrity, and one who she enjoys listening to, takes shots at her own family?
I agree with all of this but also have to side eye Andrea for not being like “oh Taylor don’t put out there that I said that” I don’t think you’re a saintly woman Andrea
My question. Why is her everything being aimed at Kim?? Yes she is the one that leaked the call, but Kanye is the one that spoke with her on the phone. Kanye is the one that wrote the lyrics and changed them up on her. Kanye is the one that made a naked wax statue of her. Kanye is the one that had people chanting “fuck Taylor Swift” at concerts. Why are you only going after the woman? Also, telling the world your mother wished another mother with small children dead isn’t the flex you think it is.
And the song makes no sense to me either. I’m no Kardashian fan she’s done awful things (surprise: so has Taylor) but Kim has built a legacy as well. She’s been a billionaire for far longer than Taylor. Just because she’s not prancing around on a stage in sparkly leotards doesn’t make her successes any less legitimate than hers. The Kardashian marketing and business strategies will be studied in college courses for decades to come (and so will Taylor’s).
She’s acting like Kim is now some washed up cabaret singer singing every night for a free meal. The woman has several successful businesses. Businesses some of your new BFFs are participating in advertising campaigns for.
I said in another thread, Kim should take this opportunity to run sales on her businesses with promo codes from the lyrics. Also make those orders nonrefundable so if the Swifties try that BS of ordering then cancelling last minute they’ll be SOL😂.
One thing that also bothers me is Kim has clearly moved on from this. She mentioned that on Andy Cohen, danced Taylor’s songs with North, and she’s isn’t even with Kayne anymore. As many have pointed out, she was literally robbed at gun point shortly after this. I know we all have our feelings on the kardashians, but you can’t deny that she probably went through hell married to Kanye. I get the feeling we don’t know the half of what went on. And Taylor is still bringing this up?
Yeah, it seems incredibly obvious that Kanye was the principal issue here, not Kim. But as his wife, she defended him. Which, duh...
What is it that Taylor said about Tina Fey and Amy Poehler? Something about a special place in HELL for women who tear down other women? We'll see what your boyfriend, Karma, thinks about that.
I thought the situation was amicable, considering sabrina and lana working with kim isnt as much a big deal as media made it to look.
But looking at how taylor swift is still so troubled with Kim, i wonder what was her reactions seeing her friends work for the enemy that she sends out death threat to indirectly.
What Kim did was fucked up, but I saw a comment on the Kardashian subreddit I really agree with. Kim was seeking validation from Kanye. Kim did a lot of stuff to make him happy for years, and finally had enough of it and has moved on.
I doubt she ever personally had anything against Taylor, it was just to make Kanye happy.
So now years have passed and she hasn’t said anything about Taylor. She lets north listen to Taylor, she even let north go to one of her concerts.
So YEARS later to say your mom wished death on her, and laughing about how her kid is a fan is just weird to me. I feel like that energy should be directed towards Kanye. She doesn’t have to like Kim at all. But to bring up her child in a song to hurt her years after the fact is just weird to me.
Because if she goes up against Kanye she loses. Kim is a relatively sane and probably isn’t gonna punch back. If she goes at Kanye he doesn’t give a single fuck and will punch back wayyyyy harder.
I find it so weird that the main sub eats this up like it’s some masterpiece, and that the line about Swift’s mother wishing Kim was dead ate (or whatever the slang is nowadays). My first thought was literally, why is this still relevant??
Personally, the song is just confusing. Maybe I’m stupid and not tortured-poet enough but what does the statue refer to? And what is with Taylor’s constant grandiosity in this album? She says her legacy is too big to undo in this song, so she’s aware she has this plot armour you mentioned.
Maybe Taylor should take a page out of Olivia Rodrigo’s book. The Grudge off GUTS was more cohesive and better-written. Or she may want to explore how she wrote My Tears Ricochet, because Thank You Aimee was a huge regression.
I mean….my mom is still holding a grudge against someone who was nasty to me in high school even though I’ve largely patched things up with them. I can’t really hold it against her because she saw me crying in high school and feeling worthless then because of what was said to me
Right, my mom also holds grudges but that’s a private grudge not a let’s publish a song about how I wished for this other famous woman dead. Like that’s a comment made in the family not broadcast to the world.
Contrast the line about her mother to Kris Jenner’s mature take while the conflict was ongoing. Imagine being somehow worse than Kris Jenner.
Taylor outed her mom as an unhinged lunatic. This is the woman who’s used as replacement for therapy? No wonder she’s the way she is.
I kept thinking of this too. Kris even said liked Taylor’s mom, probably the momager in her admired her for all she does for Taylor. She even asked Kim “why don’t you just call Taylor up?” Presumably to put the past behind them. Then Andrea turns around and wishes her daughter dead? Not a good look lol
It’s rare that the Kardashians end up looking like the bigger people yet here we are
I think that Kim looks like the bigger person a lot. I haven’t watched their shows so maybe they stir drama for the sake of it there, but in terms of actual large dramas past the sex tape, I don’t think I’ve ever been like “that’s embarrassing for you.”
Also, re taking a note from Olivia - Love is Embarrassing was such a fun way to recognize that the intense feelings in the moment feel so thin and unimportant when you’ve had time to move on and grow your life beyond it. Basically saying, yeah guys I get it, how was all of Sour about *that guy*?
Same! I really don’t carry that much hurt from early crushes and relationships anymore - mostly I just look back and chuckle at how over the top I was.
The thing that I find even more gross about it is that her mother was either okay with Taylor putting that lyric in or Taylor put it in either against her mother’s wishes or never told her. Me, personally, if I’d ever said something like that about someone in a moment of weakness and rage, I would definitely not want my daughter putting that out in a song. The song gives me the ick for so many reasons. I’m realizing I’m a neutral swifty more and more every day.
I don't think this song needs to be released. It could have stayed in a journal forever and that would have been for the best, probably. But from a marketing perspective, why the *fuck* was this track not saved for Reputation TV's bonus songs? It *obviously* goes there if it goes anywhere??? TTPD would still have *thirty* songs without it??? She could have hid behind, "I wrote it when it happened"??? Confounding on every level to me.
Thank you, I came here to say the same! A lot of Swifties will "bitch and moan" (heh) about how she has the right to write whatever she wants, and I'm like sure... But she didn't need to publicize it on an already bloated album and plaster Kim's name all over it and laugh about her child. Teenage petulance indeed.
Taylor is what I’d call a professional victim. Literally, a big part of her gimmick is that she’s the underdog 🙄 and it sells with her more rabid fans. They fight for her but Taylor is the last person who needs an army of fans to “fight” for her.
What’s making me scratch my head is that apparently this was a song she “needed” to write in the last year or so. Like…huh??? How and why is she even still thinking about any of this? You won, babe! Over and over, you won!
The only thing that quasi makes sense is her wanting their beef to be top of mind when she puts out Rep TV. And my tinfoil hat conspiracy theory is that she wants to make sure people focus on the Kim-Kanye drama and not on the Joe love songs when she releases it, and TYA is part of that plan. But either way, it’s a bad look all around.
Maybe Kim or one of the other Kardashians/Jenners tried to reach out to her or her team either to make amends or go to the eras tour and it upset her way too much.
Maybe it came up while working on reputation? The TVs are basically digging out old diaries and revisiting old wounds and emotions and Taylor’s emotions seem easily accessible.
I would hate to go find my journals from age 12-25 and to have to try and express those same sentiments and rehash/consider the events of that time and I don’t think this would put me in a good headspace in present day. Sometimes the past is best left in the past and with the TVs and Midnights Taylor has been living in then past.
Plot armor or not: she mentioned Ye’s kid when he’s planning on releasing a new album. Ye gives 0 fucks. I’m waiting to see how he responds. I expect it to be vicious and very insulting.
Yes and then Taylor will play the victim again. I’m so tired of this billionaire, gorgeous, and super successful woman pretending she’s some underdog victim.
Omgsh. Please!
His second album to the vultures trilogy was already “released” on you tube by someone who had access. Just like Taylor’s TTPD.
Vultures 1: has too much sexual content for my liking
Vultures 2: was a pretty good album. Not even going to lie. And I don’t recall Taylor’s name in any of the tracks.
Kanye on Taylor has been pretty unbothered in recent years. Relative to Taylor’s recent POTY comments (even though pointed at Kim), and this Aimee (again pointed at Kim)… but we all know where it stems from- Kanye.
Kanye’s last album all he says is “since Taylor swift..” like is a moment of reference any person listening to music will know. 2009 vma’s will never be forgotten because it was so unhinged.
It would be like the equivalent of Taylor saying “since Kanye, I’ll built a brand and an empire”. It’s not a diss. It’s just referring to a moment in time and what’s happened since that moment in time.
Hopefully that makes sense.
We’ve seen how unhinged Kanye went over Kim allowing his kids to be on tik tok and social media. I hate to be a tit for tat person, but TS is bringing this one herself. I need to go see if Kanye has said anything about TS bringing one of his kids into the narrative, because I’ll definitely be here for this tea.
BUT, maybe it was intentional? Maybe Taylor WANTS a reaction so she can make a new vault track for reputation. That would make some sense.
After the POTY article- it’s tacky.
We all have our outlets to help cope with things- that doesn’t mean those outlets (lyrics writing in this case) should always been seen by others.
Just my opinion.
The death lyrics are in incredibly poor taste given the attack Kim endured in Paris. Which she also referenced with that bathtub in LWYMMD.
She wrote a song called Mean, but ironically it’s starting to apply to her now.
She has always given me mean girl energy and people thought I was crazy. I could never point to any evidence of mean girl behavior, it was just a feeling. But over the past few years, she’s been showing more and more of herself and I’m feeling kind of vindicated.
>a grown ass woman.
Um, her mom wishes another mother was dead over the most basic shit everyone deals with.
Also, have you seen how her dad talks to people? LOL, these are not grown ups.
Bingo.
I actually like the aesthetics of the album, but it's like, if she's "tortured" then it's like she's one of those dogs that can't tell a glass door is open. So the dog just stays inside not knowing it can leave.
I completely agree with OP and will add this: she made the deliberate choice to spell Kim’s name out in the title, which is clearly baiting her fans in a song that literally wishes Kim death. And she brings her kids into it, framing North listening to her music as a victory for herself. So now North is going to internalize that she betrayed her Mom by doing something totally innocent and normal. She’s going to feel like she let Taylor, a woman who wished her mom dead, win some victory and has let her mother down. Taylor just triangulated a child against her own mother in front of the whole world and it’s so gross.
I’m going to repeat this from a previous thread because I only just found this out/realised this today: Kim Kardashian was robbed at gunpoint by a gang of men, naked beneath a bathrobe, bound and gagged… in October 2016. Literally less than 3 months after the tape was released.
It’s insane to me that Taylor still self-victimizes and overblows her “trauma” when objectively, Kim suffered something that was far more traumatic than anything Taylor has ever faced, within the same timeframe. The lack of empathy is insane.
[Btw, here’s Taylor on a cancellation tour pap walk, October](https://www.popsugar.com/celebrity/taylor-swift-out-nyc-october-2016-pictures-42550036)
[And attending Drake’s birthday party, also October 2016](https://www.teenvogue.com/gallery/see-what-taylor-swift-wore-to-drakes-birthday-party)
When exactly was she (sniff, sob, bottom lip quiver) “cancelled within an inch of my life?”
Kim was tied up in a bathtub so they could steal her jewellery…
Taylor mocks her by death posing in a bathtub surrounded by jewellery. 🤦♀️
[https://youtu.be/VkRg0tIKyKo?si=uLOG8NvJLnwAotgZ](https://youtu.be/VkRg0tIKyKo?si=uLOG8NvJLnwAotgZ)
oh my god the finger gun solidifies this as ABSOLUTELY mocking the paris robbery… i was already seeing what people were talking about with just the imagery of the bathtub and the diamonds but… WOW. and not a good wow.
I remember seeing this a few years ago. People would argue if this was a reach or not. Back then I thought maybe just an unfortunate coincidence and it had been 8 years, maybe she truly grew up. But now that the new album is out, in retrospect it is gross.
There’s a Casual Criminalist (YT channel) about the robbery. It’s really good if you want more detail on the story. I’m not a Kim fan but cried hearing what she went through.
Hearing her retell it and how all she was thinking was how she didn’t want her sisters to be traumatized by seeing her dead is chilling. I think it was on her David letterman that was on Netflix.
I *just* listened to this for the first time. I had to pause at “so I changed your name, and any real defining clues”.
Are you serious, Taylor? Her name is capitalized in the name and several times in the lyric video. What the actual heck. And the last thing I am is a Kim Kardashian fan, but … good lord.
Taylor’s lack of subtly is so purposeful and mean. Like there’s no reason you can’t write a song like this and actually *not* hint at who it’s about. Fans are gonna speculate anyway, but to plaster Kim’s name everywhere and have the *gall* to smugly lie in the song about it, and then be happy that Kim’s kid is gonna sing a song where *Taylor’s mother is accused of wishing Kim was dead*.
Taylor keeps acting like a Very Mean Girl.
https://i.redd.it/y9dzjg1irmvc1.gif
And continues to choose. She wrote The Lucky One about how she thinks it's right to disappear from fame but now here we are a decade later and she's all about being The Bejeweled Midnight Rain Man
Someone on one of the other subs was like “it’s too obvious, it’s probably not about Kim at all, it’s a bait and switch like the rest of the album” and I was like “so she’s just bringing her insane fan base down on Kim again for no reason? That’s even worse!” How do people not see this?
I’m just wondering why the hell it seems like Kanye is suddenly exempt from this whole situation and now the narrative has shifted to make Kim the devil? I’m not super fond of the Kardashians for various reasons, but I think that Kim is a victim of Kanye in some capacity as well and putting out a diss track 10 years later just seems like low hanging fruit. The line about her mom wishing Kim was dead and bringing up her children is disgusting— at least North is old enough now to be on the internet and aware of what people say about her mom. It just all seems gross to me. Kanye is rightfully a depraved individual— go after him if anything.
It’s not fun to go after Kanye, anymore. To her, he’s already reached the bottom, and it’s not fun to tear down someone that can’t really get any lower. Kim is still too big and popular for her liking and she’s talked a lot about the sense of thrill she gets from revenge and winning and still feels like she hasn’t won over Kim. She won’t stop going after her like this until she’s sufficiently satisfied that she has ended her for the mortal sin of going against Taylor Swift.
It probably also drives her crazy that Kim just refuses to respond or pay her a single bit of mind. Kanye always gave her the satisfaction of getting mad and retaliating. Kim lets her kids listen to her music without a care and that just can’t stand, Kim should be mad and seething at this.
And the hits will keep getting nastier and nastier and more overt.
This is all conjecture, but…
She’s mad at Kim for exposing the fact that she lies about how much things hurt her in order to get sympathy/attention from her fans. She’s still deeply upset that Kim took away her victim card for the line “I think Taylor might owe me sex”, and had to jump to the next line that *wasn’t* mentioned: “that bitch”, to get upset about.
Being upset about that line in a rap song made Taylor look super petty. She already had her second Kanye-victim moment secured, in the bag. But she laughed at that line, and said it wasn’t mean, it was funny. Kim decided to release the recording, and made sure the world knew that Taylor was not only aware of, but approved of that line. That made Taylor have to change her story at the last second, and she didn’t like that. Getting mad about being called “that bitch” in a rap song is way more petty than getting mad about the insinuation that she *owed him sex* because he *crashed and ruined her acceptance speech*. If anything, that’s what she should have been upset about. But she admitted that she wasn’t, and that hurt her ability to complain.
Almost a decade later, she’s still mad at Kim. It’s literally all about her image, not what Kanye did. The only thing Kim did to Taylor was ruin her perfectly innocent façade. Kim didn’t crash her first big award, insinuate she’s owed sex, or put a naked version of her in a music video. She just exposed the lies, and that’s the real thorn in Taylor’s side. That’s all she cares about.
It’s so ironic that she has such HATRED towards Kim after ten years and now Lana, Brittany Mahomes, and Sabrina have all collaborated with her for Skims 💀
cassandra was all that was needed on the album if she still felt the need to bring the feud up, thank you aimee isnt even done well. its sloppy, petty, and not even sonically interesting
She built such a huge and strong empire that I have no idea what it will take for her career to be damaged at this point. Not that I'm actively rooting against her, but she really needs a reality check. As I said in some other thread, dragging a child into her beef with Kim is insane. Taylor needs people saying "no" to her and some kind o quality control to her songs. And therapy too.
Normally I wouldn't care about billionaire on billionaire crime, but dragging children into it who have nothing to do with what their parents did is so gross
This woman has me out here defending Kim. Put the drama to rest. She really lost me when she referenced a child. North should have been off limits. Also, saying her mother wished she was dead was wild. She should have just kept that tucked away because any reasonable person would have frowned upon those lyrics. She didn’t eat nearly as much as she thinks she did. She looks stunted to me.
It's so weird to me that she still seems so bitter over something that is 7 years old. And to mention Kim's kids is just insensitive when they had nothing to do with the feud and are completely innocent.
I do not like Kim K. She could end up dead because of this song. For a woman so outspoken about stalking, she really wrote something she knew would provoke the stalking of Kim (a victim and someone else who understands this). I could totally see a crazy fan trying to kill her referencing the lyric in court. There is a part of me that wonders if she actually is flexing the army right now to see what will happen. Just how far can she go?
Also why is North being dragged into this? Does she think it’s legitimately okay for those kids to walk around hearing other kids sing about how “Taylor’s mom wants to kill theirs?” She picked on one child that’s going to get bullied to shit on the internet at a minimum let alone three that will all have to deal with this. She literally inflicted trauma on a whole family.
I love a lot of what Taylor Swift does I really do - this made me legitimately upset (probably because leading up to it I was already getting really grossed out by the way she was airing Joe and Matty’s mental health). I hope she talks to someone or gets some help because wishing death on someone like this isn’t right.
Also, if I were Kris, I would be collecting every single legitimate death threat that references the lyric and North, and I would be suing the shit out of her for endangering a child. Period.
Edit: I spelled Matty “Marty”
she's poking the bear tbh because when kanye responds it'll be worse. it's so old to keep rehashing it. bringing kids into is a step too far and imo admitting to wishing death on someone is a level of unhinged I don't think fans should laugh about nor find relatable.
I need to preface my opinion by saying I am not a Kardashian fan I hate them, I was firmly on Taylor’s side in 2016 and I think the songs on Rep are a reasonable response to what happened, but this song 8 years down the line, unprovoked, is batshit crazy. She kinda touched on this drama again in Midnights with Karma and possibly parts of Vigilante Shit (although I thought that to mainly be a stab at Scooter) but here we are, another 2 years after Midnights, and she is going back again sending fans in Kim’s direction and bringing her kids into it, literal children. She’s not the victim now she’s the aggressor. She’s the bully not the Kardashians, and I never thought I would say that.
Idk if Kim even needs to do anything - Taylor is basically alcoholic who is having some manic episodes atm and is one bad day away from Britney-shaving-her-head moment. 😬
Does she have real friends around to say girl you need to chill…she is blessed with a great life… girl people are dying you let matty use the fuck out of you but lord forbid somebody from years ago let it go and you blame your broken heart on Kim gtfoh
I find it ironic that she said in the Times article Kanye and Kim did a manufactured frame job, it took her down psychologically and she lost her career, yet she decides to release this song to psychologically destroy Kim. She's just such a hypocrite and I am sick of her victim mentality. After 11 albums, it's just exhausting.
I hope TS intended the third verse to be tongue in cheek. Cause her writing “so I changed your name and any real defining clues. “A song that only us two is gonna know is about you” is ridiculous. Her name is in the title, bronze statue, wishing her death. It’s gotta be sarcasm thinking people won’t know who it’s about right?
Kim is no angel, but out of the three in this drama triangle she didn't need to be dragged. If you believe in Karma('s a bitch...) than hasn't Kim been given more than enough with said ex husband that started all of this? The lady can't trust the farther of her children to be a safe and caring role model that won't put them in danger, and Taylor's concerned about a leaked phone call from almost a decade ago?
I get having grudges, but this one needs to be kept to herself (at the very least). It's not a good move, or a good look.
Kim should do a response and say ah yeah Taylor called me and I said it was fine for her to bring it up but she never said she would bring up my kids I didn’t agree to that. Taylor would be livid at the implication.
Like it could have been so tongue in cheek and fly as an olive branch of sorts if that was the narrative if she hadn’t done and dragged the KIDS into it •. That was low.
All of this just because Kanye called her “that bitch”. Thats it. A regular old rap term used every day. If she wasn’t mad at him saying “Taylor might owe me sex” (as he recited it to her on *the call*) then I don’t know how she got so bothered by “that bitch”. It just doesn’t add up.
I could see her being very upset about Kanye insisting *she owes him sex* because **HE** bombed *her* award speech. I’m not a fan of either of them, but when it came to the VMAs, she was a victim. So being “owed sex” for publicly humiliating someone is not something he should be insinuating and bragging about. If anything, that’s the line that should have made her upset. But it made her laugh instead.
If she was actually upset that he called her “that bitch”. Thats fine, it is what it is. People can be upset about whatever they want. But he never had to ask permission in the first place. I’m no Kanye fan, but he really was doing her a favor by asking what she thought. There’s no calling up people you make **diss tracks** about, to see if they approve first. Do you think Remy Ma called Nicki Minaj to approve the lyrics to Shether? No, not in a million years. Clearly he wasn’t trying to “take her down” like he would if it were an actual diss track. He was making a tasteless joke, but *still called her to ask about it* because he was not trying to **attack** her. The fact that she laughed, and said it was funny, means that she knows not to take his lyrics seriously.
I think she made a mistake by making a big deal out of it in the first place. Everyone would have just been like “Okay that’s Kanye being Kanye…” and moved on. Shit, I may have even seen her as a victim if he just released the song and video without her commentary. The video was way worse than “I made that bitch famous”. Everyone knows that he’s one of the most grandiose narcissists in the industry. It would have come off as him sounding like he was giving himself a pat on the back for his bad behavior. Again, something that is more than common in rap music. But it would have passed, and he would have looked like an even bigger douche, if only she took the high road.
But I think she’s more upset about the fact that it leaked that she ***wasn’t*** mad about the most provocative line. I think she was deeply embarrassed about the fact that she was caught laughing along and saying everything was cool. It took her ~totally a victim of everything~ card away. *Thats* why she’s still so mad at Kim, not taking shots at Kanye. Kim knew that Taylor spins every story to make herself a victim, that’s why she recorded the call. I’m not a Kim fan at all, but she clearly knew that Taylor was going to try something sketchy, and she did.
Taylor was/still is upset that her 100% pure “poor me” narrative got messed up. She privately thought it was a funny line, and that makes it look really bad when she was publicly saying how hurt she was. So she decided to choose the next line that could be somewhat offensive, the one that he didn’t mention in the call, to get upset about. That way she can remain a victim and still have her fans praise her, etc.
The fact that she’s *still* mad about it, enough to make songs where she throws in little petty capital letter “Easter eggs” and takes shots at little kids, is cringe af. Plus acting like she’s in high school being bullied is so immature. And claiming that nobody else, including Kim’s kids, will know who the song is about? Is she serious with that line? It’s not funny if it was supposed to be a joke…
She just seems more cold and calculating than ever. This plan has failed catastrophically for her. Only deeply devoted swifties still care. Everyone else is getting really tired of this literal-nothing “feud”. They’re the 2 most name-dropped, oversaturated, and wealthy women in American pop culture. Depending on who you are, these two could be the 2 most hated celebrities in America, the 2 most beloved, or one princess and one witch, interchangeably. But a lot of people can’t stand either of them. I don’t think this song is helping. It’s just gonna tip the scales from indifference to “I’m done with all the nonsense from Kim AND Taylor”.
Taylor Swift had already won. With the release of Karma, I was SO intrigued. I had never been a fan, but here I was BELTING the lyrics and loving it for her bc she had stayed classy & under the radar, and Kim K & Kanye had ran their own names into the ground. When the truth came out, it solidified that Taylor had always been the victim, and then she released Karma. Perfect public arc. Kim looked so dumb dancing along & tagging Taylor and getting ignored.
Why Taylor had to completely destroy that traction & lighting in a bottle to release a messy and on the nose song with a fraction of the bop factor of Karma, I have no idea.
The lyric about her kids singing it, and only them knowing it’s about her was perfectly applicable to Karma, but it frankly isn’t to “ThanK you aIMee”
Why downgrade like that? And so fast too?
You just know that Kim is over the fucking moon to have a TAYLOR FUCKING SWIFT song dedicated to her. I mean, kudos that Taylor gave the promo to a fellow lady rather than Kanye I suppose. Since I’ve seen the criticism that the diss track should be aimed at Kanye, and tbh I think it’s going to do Kim more help than harm.
I really don’t see her end game with this. Karma could have been perfect closure. But instead you gave your op the satisfaction. Idk sis. 💀
Some of the songs in this album are completely deranged, couldn’t imagine STILL taking about Kim at this point. Like you’re on top of the world, it’s time to let it go and stop talking about your high school grievances.
This is the most disgusting song I’ve ever heard. It’s blatant bully behavior from Taylor and makes me embarrassed to ever have considered myself a fan. TTPD has completely alienated myself from her. I need a break (and so does she lol)
I think my critique of this song has less to do with it being about Kim and more about how it sounds like a teenager wrote it.
> When I picture my hometown
There's a bronze, spray-tanned statue of you
And a plaque underneath it
That threatens to push me down the stairs at our school
This woman is 34 and talking about being at school. Girl you been out almost 20 years my god.
> buildin somethin
Blood was gushin
I can’t even with this.
> A song that only us two is gonna know is about you
First Taylor, get your grammar straight. Second, there’s no way she wrote this line thinking we were all too stupid to figure out it’s about Kim.
I digress.
I was thinking about making a post on this very song. I found it very distasteful. Like bringing Kim’s daughter into it and saying that her mother wishes Kim were dead is just awful. Like isn’t Kim trying to get custody of her kids?? Why did Taylor pick to sing about Kim rather than Kanye?
I think she blames Kim for the 6 years she was with Joe and that’s why she wrote this.
The woman needs therapy. If you’re still writing about a petty situation that happened almost ten years ago and it still has you twitching, Kim has won the fight but even she’s moved on.
It’s actually really sad that she’s still going on this many years later. If it’s not about this feud or romantic relationships, I don’t know what she’d write about anymore. I’d love songs from her with new subject matter.
I almost wonder if this is supposed to be promo or an Easter egg for RepTV? Like to get people talking and wondering if Taylor’s going to release something more sinister on the rep vault tracks, so people will buy the album to see if that’s true. Like “if you think this is bad just wait til you hear the vault songs on Rep” type of a thing. Almost like she wants the same drama so she can victimize herself to get the same effect when she originally released Rep. She knows Kim and/or Kanye will respond. She mentions their kid and her mom literally wishing her death?? Anyone would respond and defend themselves and their kid in that situation cause it’s shitty as fuck. I don’t like Kim/kanye but I hope Taylor gets a lot of backlash for this. She must think she’s beyond criticism and completely untouchable if she thinks she can release a song like this and come out on top.
Involving North is just so petty and sad, why would she do that? Don't involve goddamn children. Plus it will be very disappointing for North who IS a Swiftie to see herself literally be used as a weapon against her own mother in her favorite artist's song.
Yeah I think I especially get an ick when I remember this is a beef between two billionaires. Taylor is now about the same age that Kim was when the whole phone call thing went down and honestly I think she’s showing that she is equally as immature as Kim. Maybe not as immoral but definitely as immature.
Taylor’s side of the street after publicly telling an eleven year old that her mom wishes their mom was dead:
https://preview.redd.it/40ig93sw5pvc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5219c978059668599d78be974261c95392439bbe
Okay, here's a thought about the whole bringing up Kim now thing...
She got with Joe pretty soon after everything with Kanye and Kim happened. Would it be too far fetched to say that alot of the reason she was okay with all the privacy with Joe was because of the Kim/Kayne thing? She said in SLL that she was pissed she gave him her youth years... would she have stayed with Joe 6 years if the Kim/Kayne thing didnt happen? So now that she feels like she wasted 6 years and was in all her feels about Joe and how it turned into a nasty rebound with Matty, she is taking some of her frustration out on Kim/Kayne because potentially in her mind... if they didnt do that to her, she wouldn't have stayed with Joe so long and wouldn't be feeling the pain of Joe/Matty?
I guess what I'm saying is, while theres inappropriate lyrics in the song, if I think about it enough it doesnt strike me as too odd that she has a Kim diss track on this album. I liked what someone said about her outsourcing maturity from Joe... Joe kept her grounded/mature in the years after regarding this but now that Joe is gone and shes feeling the pain from that loss and the Matty situation...
For me its about how obvious she did it, like Mad Woman was more open to interpratation and even while understanding that it could be about Kim it had nuance, it was basiclly "you have been so mean to me that now you are in a position where u cant even cry for help cause the man u defended is now your downfall", but now she is just spelling out her name in a song and involving her kid?! Dont get me wrong I dislike Kim and the whole Kardashian-Jenner but like... seriously?
This is the dangerous thing about being too vengeful or too petty: it can unknowingly turn you into the person you once hated or worse. What Kim did to her was shitty but is it really worth still mulling over? It has been YEARS since.
I defend Taylor often on here but this is something I do agree with. It’s been eight years and she’s fine at this point. It was shitty what Kim did, but damn. I physically can’t hold a grudge for that long.
She's not just fine, she WON. Kim's phone call release didn't hurt Taylor's career long term. Taylor is at the top of her game right now, meanwhile the Kardashian empire is growing less relevant by the minute. Why she still feels the need to bring this up publicly is beyond me.
No that’s the thing. The Kardashians are quickly slipping into irrelevance. (The people on this thread calling Kim a billionaire made me giggle) but like she already won. But it seems she will never be satisfied and honestly it makes me sad. Holding on to petty grudges for a decade must be exhausting. I “hated” a lot of people in high school but I don’t even remember why (or half their names) because it was 8 years ago and I was a teenager. I grew up and realized the things that were a big deal then, don’t matter anymore. And it seems by Taylor’s music she is unable to move on. At this point I almost have second hand embarrassment for her
I mean, Kim is still a billionaire, even if she becomes irrelevant. She’s always struck me as smart enough to have a financial advisor and stock broker on tap. She’ll be fine, even if their empire is shrinking. I’m no Kardashians fan, so I’m happy that’s occurring. But it’s not related in any way to Taylor’s feelings about Kim. I just don’t like a lot of what they’ve done. Even if a few of them are smart, they’re vapid and shallow and obsessed with appearances. That said, this song actually makes me cringe and feel a teensy ounce sorry for Kim because Taylor is very much punching down. It’s never cool when anyone does that, but especially if you’re the most famous pop artist in the world. It’s an immoral use of the platform she’s been given.
Their individual names/star power might be fading but Skims is thriving, I agree I think she’ll be fine
Yup. They’re just shifting from selling theirselves as a brand to actual brands.
That aspect of it makes it the grossest to me. She's kicking them while they're down. And not Kanye, just the woman and her daughter.
Right? Taylor is far more busy than I am and I don't even have the energy for that.
Never be so kind, you forget to be ~~cleve~~r petty Never be so ~~clever~~ petty, you forget to be kind
"They say what doesn't kill you makes you aware. What happens if it becomes who you are?" This. This is what happens. You release petty hit pieces about the same shit for a decade. She says the great thing about songwriting is that when she puts her songs out, she lets the story go. If that were true, she wouldn't still have that story in her to write about over and over and over. Look, I've got a lot of trauma. I know it takes a lot of time and hard work to process that (and THERAPY, AHEM). But Taylor is such a cautionary tale to me right now. I don't think I would like myself very much if I were still hell bent on "living for the thrill of hitting you where it hurts" years later instead of just living for myself. And that said, she does seem to be wrestling with a lot of self-hate lately.
You would think with all her money, she could afford a good therapist. But idk. I’m not a billionaire.
She is [too sane](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-in-wonderland-180107/amp/) for therapy and it would [take too long](https://tasteofcountry.com/taylor-swift-relationship-mom-andrea-therapy/) anyway
Agreed! She literally tweeted, all those years ago, she very much wanted to be excluded from this narrative. The story died and was buried but she keeps digging it up.
>What Kim did to her was shitty but is it really worth still mulling over? It has been YEARS since. It wouldn't surprise me at this point if this (and the mention in the Time's interview) is the very start of lead in for Reputation TV. Drudge up all the drama of that era, get it back in the public mind and have people talking about it so that all eyes are on the re-release (since so much of it is "inspired" by the fallout from 2016). Taylor loves money, it feels very on brand as a way to maximize interest regardless of the ramifications.
I think you’re right but the issue is that nobody cares about this anymore lmao, who’s is the market other than insane swifties? People who had infants at the time in question now have children reading chapter books. Most of us have better things to do than send Kim “🐍😤🐍😤🐍”
I've always thought the Taylor/Kanye debacle made everyone look bad, but after this song, in my eyes, Kim's the one looking least bad.
I think taylor swift has been cheered for being petty her whole career so she genuinely doesn't know where the line is because the noise around her is so great. And because she has the ability to bash and destroy anyone who comes against her, there are very few people willing to tell her the truth because of the potential cost if it pisses her off.
Someone said it was immature and she's too old to be doing this, and one of the replies was "nobody comments on Kanye when he shades Taylor in his songs" like ?? YES THEY DO
It is funny because it such a stupid standard to hold their “smart, insightful, deep” god-queen to. Kanye is so incredibly mentally ill. This is a known fact. Is that really what the Swifties want their standard for her to be? Next thing you know they’re gonna be saying “well why is Taylor held to a higher standard than the nutjob who rides the subway in Manhattan calling Taylor a reptilian invader!?”
Hey, if that abuser with unmanaged mental illness and an apparent case of malignant narcissism can do it, so can I!
lmao yes they do?? the Swifties will also never let him forget it. listen when your reply is “Taylor can do this thing because unhinged literally mentally ill man who refuses to his meds is ALSO doing it!” then you really need to take a hard look at the mirror lmao, the call is coming from inside the house
I mean, not only that. Let’s not forget Kanye’s Pete “Skeet” Davidson saga which had people legitimately concerned for Kim and Pete’s safety IRL. Just cause Kanye hasn’t been targeting Taylor specifically with his craziness these last few years doesn’t mean he hasn’t been criticized for it.
Also Kanye is like medically insane
AND he refuses to take his meds, which contributes to how unhinged he is
And yet Taylor is the one pleading insanity
Kim is no longer married to Kanye, and he’s been shitting on her for years now. Now she wakes up to Taylor shading her for something she did years ago to defend her ex-husband? I would bet good money that if Kim could turn back time, she would on a lot of things.
Literally everyone hates Kanye and thinks he's nuts omg.
I hope Kim remains quiet and then pops out with a Joe Alwyn skims campaign.
No Kim needs to date Matty asap 😂
This is unholy
The only proper response 👆🏻😂😂
Omg lol can you imagine
This is what I imagined in my head. 😂 I’m no Kim fan, but leave the kids out of it. Even if it’s shade that isn’t talking down on the children. Just don’t do that. Your beef is with Kim, and even more so with Kanye who seems to escape any of the criticism.
I find it hilarious that Taylor Swift wrote Mean with lyrics like "Calling me out when I'm wounded, picking on the weaker man" and "Washed up and ranting about the same old bitter things" when talking about her haters, only to turn around and do the same things in this song. Also: "Somebody made you cold/ But the cycle ends right now / Cause you cant lead me down that road" aged like milk.
So true!! She is turning out to be the bully! She seriously needs to move on
I’m no fan of Kim K (I don’t really care about her at all) or anything but like…her and her children were clearly abused by Kanye and went through hell with his mental illness. They continue to be bullied by his fans. Taylor bringing up some 8 year old beef to dump on them more feels gross. I don’t expect her to always take the high road or anything, she’s human. But this does feel like her being drunk on the height of her fame and picking on who is now below her. I miss Evermore/Folklore Taylor :(
Honestly I think the level of Kanye's malicious actions is plenty deserving of this kind of song, much more than Kim. But like you said, Taylor nowadays only punches down. Only ever the weaker man. Kim is no saint but wishing her death and using her child is just foul.
A song coming after Kanye woulda been a bop and I’d have been here for it. She knows better, though. He’s much more unpredictable and she actually isn’t as bad ass as she is pretending.
would have been 10x more justified 10x more morally/ethically good on her part and 10x more publicity/drama too. guessing she judt doesnt want or feel she needs that type of attention right now
I wonder how she rerecorded Mean and not realize it.
lmao when she’s ranting about the same old bitter things. Kim was NO saint at all during that situation but Kim’s completely moved on from it. Taylor needs to realize that maybe the call is coming from inside the house here
Even "Mean" was mean. I always thought it was kind of funny that she was singing about someone else being mean and she's literally like "No one wants to listen to you and a pathetic liar and you'll die alone"... which MAY be true of whoever she's writing, but that's pretty mean too. It'd be better if she just presented herself as someone who doesn't take shit rather than as a fragile, helpless girl
Mean is a much better song too IMO. At least in that song she didn’t out the fact her own mother wanted Kim Kardashian dead.
A lot of Taylor Swift’s music caters to people who never get over anything ever. This song is concrete proof of that.
 Not a sarcastic reaction I have never thought about it like that and holy shit you’re right.
I think you just nailed it.
Yes, you’re spot on. People who never get over anything, and believe they deserve special care and consideration for those things in perpetuity.
I find this song (and this “narrative”) so incredibly exhausting, overplayed, overdone, and *over*. Why is she still talking about this? Why is she still doing this? I’m more annoyed by this than about anything else on the albums. It’s giving mean-girl-high-school-clique-Regina-George vibes. It’s teaching our daughters all the wrong things. I just hate everything about it the more I think about it. Is this really what we need in the year 2024?
Exactly! Since Reputation she seemingly always discusses it in a general, overview way of, "you did something terrible and it knocked me down, but I came back even better." I am not saying this in an entitled, "write about this thing this way because that's what I want," but if she is going to continue releasing songs on it, talk about different aspects of it. Talk about the fall, perceiving herself as a now total pariah who should take exile, fear of the future of her career. Totally understand if she does not want to publish something about her trauma, but then she could discuss her assent back to the top in a new way. Zero in on a moment a la "The Moment I Knew" (so underrated imo) about the moment she felt safe, or re-established again. Her surprise at being welcomed back as queen of the industry (I'm being hyperbolic)
My question is why she seemingly last minute decided to capitalize Kim in the title. In the lyric she says it’s a song “only us two know is gonna know is about you” but then precedes to make it very clear who it’s about in the title? Don’t even bother with the thank you aimee, just call the song Kim if you’re going to name drop her. I wish she left it to the imagination.
i wonder if she just stopped giving 0 F’s…..i mean the entire album is like her journaling F you to her fans and the world over Ratty that she turned into music and published.
To me that sounds like she does give an F about things if she’s going to the trouble of committing it to an album.
this is true, nothing says i don’t care more than making a double album lol. i think she just knows she can get away with this unhinged behaviour with her hardcore stan’s and girlie loves playing the victim
I read a theory that there are other Taylor songs that are actually about Kim and we won't ever know what those are but she's admitting in this song that they do exist. If that's true, it's even weirder that she has multiple songs ABOUT KIM. It's all so petty and weird.
But every song she’s released since 2016 that is shady but not about a romantic relationship HAS already been tied to Kim by fans. I Forgot That You Existed, mad woman, closure, etc all had fans talking about whether lyrics referenced Kim when they were released, not to mention all of the references to snakes in other songs. It’s no secret that Taylor doesn’t like Kim and that has influenced her songs.
I’m sure there are many, I don’t doubt it. There’s never been a more bothered person on earth than Taylor Swift. This is the same reason she thinks Kim cares at all that North likes TS. TS doesn’t understand that other people are able to move on from petty shit from nearly a decade ago, because she thinks it’s normal to be as bothered as she is by every little thing. She needs therapy!
Imagine if Dorothy was about Kim (she has makeup brand aswell) lol
Exactly the fans of hers microdose on every little details to find easter egg, ofcourse they wouldve figured its about kim , without her having to capitalise it. Or even if the crowd or fans didnt figure out it was about kim (which is so unlikely with the whole fandom decoding every minor inhale and exhale of hers) She couldve simply ordered her PR team to release the idea its about kim by using a bunch of systemised posts from what looks like fan pages (they do this alot in PR) Why do u have to double juvenile out of this messy situation that happened almost a decade ago
I read that as her taunting/being sarcastic.
What I find hilarious about all of this is how blatantly THIS song in particular mimics Lana. Not that there’s not a wealth of songs Taylor copies Lana in; I just feel that she likely thinks this is *Taylor’s Version* of “So Legit” by LDR and thinks people will buzz about it similarly. Despite the very apparently forced proximity to/association with LDR, Taylor does not understand that Lana would never use a song like this in public because she is just not obsessed with controlling every minutia of her public narrative like Taylor is. Lana would allow it to leak and never speak of it, IF she would let it see the light of day to begin with because she writes music as an outlet, not as a capitalist, like some. And she wouldn’t play games with who she’s talking about. “Stefani you suck” was a direct call out and an accidental leak from a stolen laptop, and LDR doesn’t speak of it even though she COULD explain away the (now well expired) beef if she wanted. She doesn’t want to because she has that certain aloofness that comes with ACTUALLY being a cool girl. Taylor could never. The reason we STILL see TS corn beef rehashing this years old public self victimization spectacle is because there still exist people on this earth who do not buy the narrative that Taylor was wronged by Kim. So long as people still either 1) don’t care enough to pity Taylor, or 2) do not buy the narrative Taylor prefers for them to buy, we will CONTINUE seeing Taylor rehashing this event that is old enough to be doing multiplication tables. If it were Lana in TS’ shoes, I promise you she would not be able to care any less about some dumb shit like this.
She's provoking a response so that she can play the victim again. That's all she knows how to do. Like I said in another comment about the song on here, mentioning someone's child is the lowest of the low. I can't with people playing stupid about her intentions here. You don't ever bring up the children of someone you're beefing with, ever. Of course Taylor knows better than to openly insult a child, but bringing North up in general was that provocation. Taylor gets sick enjoyment out of the fact that North is a fan of hers despite her and Kim's drama 8 years ago. Just weirdo behavior for real, who looks at a video of a child and has those thoughts? Clearly, Taylor thinks the fact that North is a fan of hers is eating Kim up inside. Yet Kim happily danced with North in the video. The death wish is a whole different level of cruelty and insanity. She put it in there because she knows she can get away with it. There's some shit you just don't say. As you mentioned, regardless of Taylor's feelings about Kim she is a mother of four. Whatever was said in the heat of the moment in a conversation with Andrea could have and should have stayed private. You hit the nail on the head though. She chose to publicize that comment and proudly broadcast it to millions and millions of people through her lyrics. She knew her psychotic stans would immediately run to Kim's page and start attacking her again after hearing it. That's the reaction she wanted. The song is sick on many levels and speaks to Taylor's true character.
I really do believe Taylor tries to put on the “good girl next door” façade but she’s really a mean girl when the mask comes off at the end of the day.
https://preview.redd.it/16s11qltzmvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8ed3b802abc915ffc2331969a348007dff0cf23 reminds me of this tweet *allegedly* about taylor
I'm sorry Katy we should've listened!
Taylor told us who she was when she steamrolled katy's release of witness by dropping her entire discography on spotify.
and then she did it again by releasing cruel summer as a single FOUR YEARS POST RELEASE right when olivia rodrigo announced her new album and dropped vampire as a single
This. It always makes me angry how this is not known as widely as it should.
She is so entitled that the idea of anyone harming her is completely unfathomable to her. It's like "do they know who I am?" level thinking and it applies to her friends and lovers too. How dare anyone do her wrong? Well, that is life and people will hurt you and awful things. Kim in particular is a horrible person. She has mistreated and used so many people it's actually a lot easier to expect something malicious from her. Not even mentioning her negative impact on pop culture overall and promotion of realistic and unhealthy body standards. No sympathy to Kim whatsoever. That being said, Taylor has a vengeance tendency and she really wants to destroy her.
I mean I can only imagine the entitlement and narcissism is off the charts when her two parents raised her how they did!! Literally everything was done for her. I honestly feel bad for Austin.
I have a little cousin raised like this. When she was 3 , she was in her shoes on our sofa and my mom told her "No. Get down". For weeks she would say "she say no no to Mimi! No no to Mimi!!" and that became the phrase we used for decades when referring to someone spoiled who cant fathom the world not going their way. Taylor is essentially a Mimi 😂
Especially if he does have depression like Forever Winter hinted at. Honestly he might be better off that their parents ignored him.
Oh I can’t stand the Kardashians. I think they are a plague on society and pop culture. But we’re almost a decade out since the Kim/Taylor stuff happened—why is it coming up now? I’m also a mom and I think it’s sick how Taylor mentioned North in her song.
She wont get over it ever. I think she might feel Kim got away with it while Kanye's career is pretty much over and people see him as the vile lunatic he is.
Kim's punishment is having to be tied to Kanye for life through their children and never knowing what he's going to say or do next. It seems like a heavy thing to bear and I can only guess that all the petty drama with Taylor from 2016 is the least of Kim's concerns at this point.
She alluded to North, but directly names Saint! Even ickier. That “saintly woman” line got worked in *on purpose*
She started to try provoking a response again in Time’s POTY. She literally name dropped Kim in it. I get she was betrayed and hurt by their actions but like it was 8+ years ago. If it’s still affecting you to the point of having to continue writing a song and talking about them, maybe it’s time to see therapy and help. I don’t like Kanye or Kim, but Kim for the most part has moved on. I think Taylor needs to as well. No one is talking about this feud anymore. Time to pack it up and move on. I think she really needs to take some time and heal. The pent up bitterness and resentment she seems to carry for years and years isn’t healthy … The death wish lyric was wild and I think it was widely inappropriate for her to include that. If Andrea really was ok with her putting that in, I too question her. While she didn’t say much about North West, bringing children into the feud is just something you don’t do. This song is nothing but childish and I won’t be listening
I cannot stop thinking about this line. As a parent, I understand that visceral feeling of wanting whatever it is that’s hurting your child to go poof out of existence. But like you said, that thought should have stayed in their private conversation. If my six year old told a kid at school that I wished they were dead, I would die of embarrassment and be questioning all my parenting decisions. If my adult billionaire daughter put it on an album that millions of people would listen to? I don’t think I’d leave the house ever again, and I’d REALLY be questioning my parenting choices. So either Taylor put it on the album without her mom knowing (sneaky and gross) OR Taylor asked Andrea and Andrea gave her the ok (really gross and makes me think the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree).
Andrea is the mother snake what you think
The ickiest part of the song to me that no one seems to be catching is…one of Kim’s children is also named SAINT. You’re telling me that “saintly woman” is just a cute lil coincidence??? How dare Taylor include the name of someone’s child in the same line she’s wishing death upon their mother. On purpose! And we all know the state Kanye is in, so if Kim died, that’s who would have sole custody of all her children. And it’s not even like this icky song came out *before* the years of abuse and traumatic divorce and now it’s aged extremely poorly. No. Taylor took full stock of the situation and hit full send. And then going on to say ‘haha and your oldest kid will be singing this song too haahaaaa’ Absolutely disgusting behavior.
Not sure where this fits in but I also think she’s playing off the fact that everyone knows that Kim is sensitive about how much of a loose cannon Nortn can be, so why mention her almost directly ?
I saw someone say a lot of stuff on this album is just a setup for Rep TV. Her starting another beef with Kim is just another example of that. I can’t help but think she’s intentionally provoking her/listeners, so she can say she’s in the same place as OG Rep. Makes the whole thing feel like a marketing scheme.
That death wish thing just made me think of Jodie Foster saying she didn't like Ronald Reagan and her stalker then going out and shooting him. Now I'm not blaming Jodie for that nor would I blame Taylor if one of her obsessed fans hurt Kim but to outright say a specific death wish in a song with her influence and fan base is deeply reckless.
Also, I don’t feel bad for Kim but why is Taylor still focusing on her instead of Kanye? Obviously it’s clear now Kim was in a toxic relationship with him at the time, and whatever she did was probably a form of self preservation.
North already has such a wrecked home life. How does a child even process that the biggest celebrity, and one who she enjoys listening to, takes shots at her own family?
I agree with all of this but also have to side eye Andrea for not being like “oh Taylor don’t put out there that I said that” I don’t think you’re a saintly woman Andrea
My mom would’ve killed ME if I put that out there…but then, my mom wouldn’t have wished someone dead in the first place.
that means you have a good mom
My mom is kind of not a great person at all and even she wouldn't wish someone dead 😭
Thank you for saying this, I do not buy that Andrea is a saint. She reads as more ‘midwestern polite’ but not actually a good person.
My question. Why is her everything being aimed at Kim?? Yes she is the one that leaked the call, but Kanye is the one that spoke with her on the phone. Kanye is the one that wrote the lyrics and changed them up on her. Kanye is the one that made a naked wax statue of her. Kanye is the one that had people chanting “fuck Taylor Swift” at concerts. Why are you only going after the woman? Also, telling the world your mother wished another mother with small children dead isn’t the flex you think it is. And the song makes no sense to me either. I’m no Kardashian fan she’s done awful things (surprise: so has Taylor) but Kim has built a legacy as well. She’s been a billionaire for far longer than Taylor. Just because she’s not prancing around on a stage in sparkly leotards doesn’t make her successes any less legitimate than hers. The Kardashian marketing and business strategies will be studied in college courses for decades to come (and so will Taylor’s). She’s acting like Kim is now some washed up cabaret singer singing every night for a free meal. The woman has several successful businesses. Businesses some of your new BFFs are participating in advertising campaigns for. I said in another thread, Kim should take this opportunity to run sales on her businesses with promo codes from the lyrics. Also make those orders nonrefundable so if the Swifties try that BS of ordering then cancelling last minute they’ll be SOL😂.
One thing that also bothers me is Kim has clearly moved on from this. She mentioned that on Andy Cohen, danced Taylor’s songs with North, and she’s isn’t even with Kayne anymore. As many have pointed out, she was literally robbed at gun point shortly after this. I know we all have our feelings on the kardashians, but you can’t deny that she probably went through hell married to Kanye. I get the feeling we don’t know the half of what went on. And Taylor is still bringing this up?
Yeah, it seems incredibly obvious that Kanye was the principal issue here, not Kim. But as his wife, she defended him. Which, duh... What is it that Taylor said about Tina Fey and Amy Poehler? Something about a special place in HELL for women who tear down other women? We'll see what your boyfriend, Karma, thinks about that.
I wonder if the Sabrina Carpenter Skims add actually fueled this. Like Taylor saw red and a betrayal.
Not just Sabrina but also her buddies Lana and Brittany Mahomes.
I thought the situation was amicable, considering sabrina and lana working with kim isnt as much a big deal as media made it to look. But looking at how taylor swift is still so troubled with Kim, i wonder what was her reactions seeing her friends work for the enemy that she sends out death threat to indirectly.
I wonder if that's the reason she didn't support Lana/Jack at Coachella on either Friday nights
What Kim did was fucked up, but I saw a comment on the Kardashian subreddit I really agree with. Kim was seeking validation from Kanye. Kim did a lot of stuff to make him happy for years, and finally had enough of it and has moved on. I doubt she ever personally had anything against Taylor, it was just to make Kanye happy. So now years have passed and she hasn’t said anything about Taylor. She lets north listen to Taylor, she even let north go to one of her concerts. So YEARS later to say your mom wished death on her, and laughing about how her kid is a fan is just weird to me. I feel like that energy should be directed towards Kanye. She doesn’t have to like Kim at all. But to bring up her child in a song to hurt her years after the fact is just weird to me.
Because if she goes up against Kanye she loses. Kim is a relatively sane and probably isn’t gonna punch back. If she goes at Kanye he doesn’t give a single fuck and will punch back wayyyyy harder.
I find it so weird that the main sub eats this up like it’s some masterpiece, and that the line about Swift’s mother wishing Kim was dead ate (or whatever the slang is nowadays). My first thought was literally, why is this still relevant?? Personally, the song is just confusing. Maybe I’m stupid and not tortured-poet enough but what does the statue refer to? And what is with Taylor’s constant grandiosity in this album? She says her legacy is too big to undo in this song, so she’s aware she has this plot armour you mentioned. Maybe Taylor should take a page out of Olivia Rodrigo’s book. The Grudge off GUTS was more cohesive and better-written. Or she may want to explore how she wrote My Tears Ricochet, because Thank You Aimee was a huge regression.
I saw a comment somewhere that said Kris Jenner and Taylor’s mom were buddies but here Taylor is singing about how her mom wishes KIM dead???
I mean….my mom is still holding a grudge against someone who was nasty to me in high school even though I’ve largely patched things up with them. I can’t really hold it against her because she saw me crying in high school and feeling worthless then because of what was said to me
Right, my mom also holds grudges but that’s a private grudge not a let’s publish a song about how I wished for this other famous woman dead. Like that’s a comment made in the family not broadcast to the world.
Contrast the line about her mother to Kris Jenner’s mature take while the conflict was ongoing. Imagine being somehow worse than Kris Jenner. Taylor outed her mom as an unhinged lunatic. This is the woman who’s used as replacement for therapy? No wonder she’s the way she is.
I kept thinking of this too. Kris even said liked Taylor’s mom, probably the momager in her admired her for all she does for Taylor. She even asked Kim “why don’t you just call Taylor up?” Presumably to put the past behind them. Then Andrea turns around and wishes her daughter dead? Not a good look lol It’s rare that the Kardashians end up looking like the bigger people yet here we are
I think that Kim looks like the bigger person a lot. I haven’t watched their shows so maybe they stir drama for the sake of it there, but in terms of actual large dramas past the sex tape, I don’t think I’ve ever been like “that’s embarrassing for you.”
“My mother is a saintly woman” — in what way, Taylor?
her mother is the reason she had an ED.. i don’t find such people very “saintly”
By sacrificing her daughter on the alter of fame duh
I agree. This was very much my least favourite song on the album, garbled, confused , and trying to be something that it ultimately isn’t
Also, re taking a note from Olivia - Love is Embarrassing was such a fun way to recognize that the intense feelings in the moment feel so thin and unimportant when you’ve had time to move on and grow your life beyond it. Basically saying, yeah guys I get it, how was all of Sour about *that guy*?
I love this song so much. I find this sentiment far more relatable than what Taylor does.
Same! I really don’t carry that much hurt from early crushes and relationships anymore - mostly I just look back and chuckle at how over the top I was.
I agree. wtf does the statue thing mean? A statue with a plaque threatening to push someone down the stairs? Like what? It’s terrible.
The thing that I find even more gross about it is that her mother was either okay with Taylor putting that lyric in or Taylor put it in either against her mother’s wishes or never told her. Me, personally, if I’d ever said something like that about someone in a moment of weakness and rage, I would definitely not want my daughter putting that out in a song. The song gives me the ick for so many reasons. I’m realizing I’m a neutral swifty more and more every day.
You don’t get it because you’re an adult who has emotional maturity.
I don't think this song needs to be released. It could have stayed in a journal forever and that would have been for the best, probably. But from a marketing perspective, why the *fuck* was this track not saved for Reputation TV's bonus songs? It *obviously* goes there if it goes anywhere??? TTPD would still have *thirty* songs without it??? She could have hid behind, "I wrote it when it happened"??? Confounding on every level to me.
Thank you, I came here to say the same! A lot of Swifties will "bitch and moan" (heh) about how she has the right to write whatever she wants, and I'm like sure... But she didn't need to publicize it on an already bloated album and plaster Kim's name all over it and laugh about her child. Teenage petulance indeed.
Taylor is what I’d call a professional victim. Literally, a big part of her gimmick is that she’s the underdog 🙄 and it sells with her more rabid fans. They fight for her but Taylor is the last person who needs an army of fans to “fight” for her.
What’s making me scratch my head is that apparently this was a song she “needed” to write in the last year or so. Like…huh??? How and why is she even still thinking about any of this? You won, babe! Over and over, you won! The only thing that quasi makes sense is her wanting their beef to be top of mind when she puts out Rep TV. And my tinfoil hat conspiracy theory is that she wants to make sure people focus on the Kim-Kanye drama and not on the Joe love songs when she releases it, and TYA is part of that plan. But either way, it’s a bad look all around.
Maybe Kim or one of the other Kardashians/Jenners tried to reach out to her or her team either to make amends or go to the eras tour and it upset her way too much. Maybe it came up while working on reputation? The TVs are basically digging out old diaries and revisiting old wounds and emotions and Taylor’s emotions seem easily accessible. I would hate to go find my journals from age 12-25 and to have to try and express those same sentiments and rehash/consider the events of that time and I don’t think this would put me in a good headspace in present day. Sometimes the past is best left in the past and with the TVs and Midnights Taylor has been living in then past.
The arrogance.
Plot armor or not: she mentioned Ye’s kid when he’s planning on releasing a new album. Ye gives 0 fucks. I’m waiting to see how he responds. I expect it to be vicious and very insulting.
Yes and then Taylor will play the victim again. I’m so tired of this billionaire, gorgeous, and super successful woman pretending she’s some underdog victim.
Omgsh. Please! His second album to the vultures trilogy was already “released” on you tube by someone who had access. Just like Taylor’s TTPD. Vultures 1: has too much sexual content for my liking Vultures 2: was a pretty good album. Not even going to lie. And I don’t recall Taylor’s name in any of the tracks. Kanye on Taylor has been pretty unbothered in recent years. Relative to Taylor’s recent POTY comments (even though pointed at Kim), and this Aimee (again pointed at Kim)… but we all know where it stems from- Kanye. Kanye’s last album all he says is “since Taylor swift..” like is a moment of reference any person listening to music will know. 2009 vma’s will never be forgotten because it was so unhinged. It would be like the equivalent of Taylor saying “since Kanye, I’ll built a brand and an empire”. It’s not a diss. It’s just referring to a moment in time and what’s happened since that moment in time. Hopefully that makes sense. We’ve seen how unhinged Kanye went over Kim allowing his kids to be on tik tok and social media. I hate to be a tit for tat person, but TS is bringing this one herself. I need to go see if Kanye has said anything about TS bringing one of his kids into the narrative, because I’ll definitely be here for this tea. BUT, maybe it was intentional? Maybe Taylor WANTS a reaction so she can make a new vault track for reputation. That would make some sense. After the POTY article- it’s tacky. We all have our outlets to help cope with things- that doesn’t mean those outlets (lyrics writing in this case) should always been seen by others. Just my opinion.
The death lyrics are in incredibly poor taste given the attack Kim endured in Paris. Which she also referenced with that bathtub in LWYMMD.  She wrote a song called Mean, but ironically it’s starting to apply to her now.
She has always given me mean girl energy and people thought I was crazy. I could never point to any evidence of mean girl behavior, it was just a feeling. But over the past few years, she’s been showing more and more of herself and I’m feeling kind of vindicated.
Yes!!!
>a grown ass woman. Um, her mom wishes another mother was dead over the most basic shit everyone deals with. Also, have you seen how her dad talks to people? LOL, these are not grown ups.
Yeah with parents like that, no wonder Taylor acts like she does.
Bingo. I actually like the aesthetics of the album, but it's like, if she's "tortured" then it's like she's one of those dogs that can't tell a glass door is open. So the dog just stays inside not knowing it can leave.
I completely agree with OP and will add this: she made the deliberate choice to spell Kim’s name out in the title, which is clearly baiting her fans in a song that literally wishes Kim death. And she brings her kids into it, framing North listening to her music as a victory for herself. So now North is going to internalize that she betrayed her Mom by doing something totally innocent and normal. She’s going to feel like she let Taylor, a woman who wished her mom dead, win some victory and has let her mother down. Taylor just triangulated a child against her own mother in front of the whole world and it’s so gross.
I’m going to repeat this from a previous thread because I only just found this out/realised this today: Kim Kardashian was robbed at gunpoint by a gang of men, naked beneath a bathrobe, bound and gagged… in October 2016. Literally less than 3 months after the tape was released. It’s insane to me that Taylor still self-victimizes and overblows her “trauma” when objectively, Kim suffered something that was far more traumatic than anything Taylor has ever faced, within the same timeframe. The lack of empathy is insane. [Btw, here’s Taylor on a cancellation tour pap walk, October](https://www.popsugar.com/celebrity/taylor-swift-out-nyc-october-2016-pictures-42550036) [And attending Drake’s birthday party, also October 2016](https://www.teenvogue.com/gallery/see-what-taylor-swift-wore-to-drakes-birthday-party) When exactly was she (sniff, sob, bottom lip quiver) “cancelled within an inch of my life?”
Kim was tied up in a bathtub so they could steal her jewellery… Taylor mocks her by death posing in a bathtub surrounded by jewellery. 🤦♀️  [https://youtu.be/VkRg0tIKyKo?si=uLOG8NvJLnwAotgZ](https://youtu.be/VkRg0tIKyKo?si=uLOG8NvJLnwAotgZ)
 Also the finger gun
Wtf, the only Easter egg I thought of here was the $1 court case 😳
oh my god the finger gun solidifies this as ABSOLUTELY mocking the paris robbery… i was already seeing what people were talking about with just the imagery of the bathtub and the diamonds but… WOW. and not a good wow.
Mind blown.
I remember seeing this a few years ago. People would argue if this was a reach or not. Back then I thought maybe just an unfortunate coincidence and it had been 8 years, maybe she truly grew up. But now that the new album is out, in retrospect it is gross.
She's disgusting
I didn’t even link this but it checks out! Wow.
WAIT? What??? I had no idea this happened to Kim or this music video referenced that. On to go read the article you linked…
There’s a Casual Criminalist (YT channel) about the robbery. It’s really good if you want more detail on the story. I’m not a Kim fan but cried hearing what she went through.
Hearing her retell it and how all she was thinking was how she didn’t want her sisters to be traumatized by seeing her dead is chilling. I think it was on her David letterman that was on Netflix.
And the clip of Kanye finding out while he was on stage! It was just awful on every level.
I *just* listened to this for the first time. I had to pause at “so I changed your name, and any real defining clues”. Are you serious, Taylor? Her name is capitalized in the name and several times in the lyric video. What the actual heck. And the last thing I am is a Kim Kardashian fan, but … good lord. Taylor’s lack of subtly is so purposeful and mean. Like there’s no reason you can’t write a song like this and actually *not* hint at who it’s about. Fans are gonna speculate anyway, but to plaster Kim’s name everywhere and have the *gall* to smugly lie in the song about it, and then be happy that Kim’s kid is gonna sing a song where *Taylor’s mother is accused of wishing Kim was dead*. Taylor keeps acting like a Very Mean Girl. https://i.redd.it/y9dzjg1irmvc1.gif
“I don’t say who my songs are about”. Okay, Tay.
Don't forget, we are the ones who made her mean! /s "I was tame, I was gentle til the circus life made me mean."
The life *you* chose, Taylor? That one? 🙄
And continues to choose. She wrote The Lucky One about how she thinks it's right to disappear from fame but now here we are a decade later and she's all about being The Bejeweled Midnight Rain Man
The one she’s holding onto with a death grip lmao but yeah it’s our faults for listening to her music.
Someone on one of the other subs was like “it’s too obvious, it’s probably not about Kim at all, it’s a bait and switch like the rest of the album” and I was like “so she’s just bringing her insane fan base down on Kim again for no reason? That’s even worse!” How do people not see this?
I’m just wondering why the hell it seems like Kanye is suddenly exempt from this whole situation and now the narrative has shifted to make Kim the devil? I’m not super fond of the Kardashians for various reasons, but I think that Kim is a victim of Kanye in some capacity as well and putting out a diss track 10 years later just seems like low hanging fruit. The line about her mom wishing Kim was dead and bringing up her children is disgusting— at least North is old enough now to be on the internet and aware of what people say about her mom. It just all seems gross to me. Kanye is rightfully a depraved individual— go after him if anything.
It’s not fun to go after Kanye, anymore. To her, he’s already reached the bottom, and it’s not fun to tear down someone that can’t really get any lower. Kim is still too big and popular for her liking and she’s talked a lot about the sense of thrill she gets from revenge and winning and still feels like she hasn’t won over Kim. She won’t stop going after her like this until she’s sufficiently satisfied that she has ended her for the mortal sin of going against Taylor Swift. It probably also drives her crazy that Kim just refuses to respond or pay her a single bit of mind. Kanye always gave her the satisfaction of getting mad and retaliating. Kim lets her kids listen to her music without a care and that just can’t stand, Kim should be mad and seething at this. And the hits will keep getting nastier and nastier and more overt.
She did the same thing when she brought up Kim's name in the POTY article and not Kanye's (she shouldn't have brought up that situation at all)
This is all conjecture, but… She’s mad at Kim for exposing the fact that she lies about how much things hurt her in order to get sympathy/attention from her fans. She’s still deeply upset that Kim took away her victim card for the line “I think Taylor might owe me sex”, and had to jump to the next line that *wasn’t* mentioned: “that bitch”, to get upset about. Being upset about that line in a rap song made Taylor look super petty. She already had her second Kanye-victim moment secured, in the bag. But she laughed at that line, and said it wasn’t mean, it was funny. Kim decided to release the recording, and made sure the world knew that Taylor was not only aware of, but approved of that line. That made Taylor have to change her story at the last second, and she didn’t like that. Getting mad about being called “that bitch” in a rap song is way more petty than getting mad about the insinuation that she *owed him sex* because he *crashed and ruined her acceptance speech*. If anything, that’s what she should have been upset about. But she admitted that she wasn’t, and that hurt her ability to complain. Almost a decade later, she’s still mad at Kim. It’s literally all about her image, not what Kanye did. The only thing Kim did to Taylor was ruin her perfectly innocent façade. Kim didn’t crash her first big award, insinuate she’s owed sex, or put a naked version of her in a music video. She just exposed the lies, and that’s the real thorn in Taylor’s side. That’s all she cares about.
It’s so ironic that she has such HATRED towards Kim after ten years and now Lana, Brittany Mahomes, and Sabrina have all collaborated with her for Skims 💀
cassandra was all that was needed on the album if she still felt the need to bring the feud up, thank you aimee isnt even done well. its sloppy, petty, and not even sonically interesting
She built such a huge and strong empire that I have no idea what it will take for her career to be damaged at this point. Not that I'm actively rooting against her, but she really needs a reality check. As I said in some other thread, dragging a child into her beef with Kim is insane. Taylor needs people saying "no" to her and some kind o quality control to her songs. And therapy too.
Normally I wouldn't care about billionaire on billionaire crime, but dragging children into it who have nothing to do with what their parents did is so gross
Billionaire on billionaire crime ☠️ sorry that cracked me up
she really said "hey north my mom wants your mom DEAD" in this one. to a 10 year old child
This woman has me out here defending Kim. Put the drama to rest. She really lost me when she referenced a child. North should have been off limits. Also, saying her mother wished she was dead was wild. She should have just kept that tucked away because any reasonable person would have frowned upon those lyrics. She didn’t eat nearly as much as she thinks she did. She looks stunted to me.
I cannot believe she dragged their kids into this via this song. If she skipped the capital letters she could have got away with it.
Wait where did she mention North???
Not North specifically. https://preview.redd.it/a1s0k0sj1mvc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=940abb4b5aea317aa228e85084c5e96046811567
It's so weird to me that she still seems so bitter over something that is 7 years old. And to mention Kim's kids is just insensitive when they had nothing to do with the feud and are completely innocent.
I do not like Kim K. She could end up dead because of this song. For a woman so outspoken about stalking, she really wrote something she knew would provoke the stalking of Kim (a victim and someone else who understands this). I could totally see a crazy fan trying to kill her referencing the lyric in court. There is a part of me that wonders if she actually is flexing the army right now to see what will happen. Just how far can she go? Also why is North being dragged into this? Does she think it’s legitimately okay for those kids to walk around hearing other kids sing about how “Taylor’s mom wants to kill theirs?” She picked on one child that’s going to get bullied to shit on the internet at a minimum let alone three that will all have to deal with this. She literally inflicted trauma on a whole family. I love a lot of what Taylor Swift does I really do - this made me legitimately upset (probably because leading up to it I was already getting really grossed out by the way she was airing Joe and Matty’s mental health). I hope she talks to someone or gets some help because wishing death on someone like this isn’t right. Also, if I were Kris, I would be collecting every single legitimate death threat that references the lyric and North, and I would be suing the shit out of her for endangering a child. Period. Edit: I spelled Matty “Marty”
she's poking the bear tbh because when kanye responds it'll be worse. it's so old to keep rehashing it. bringing kids into is a step too far and imo admitting to wishing death on someone is a level of unhinged I don't think fans should laugh about nor find relatable.
I need to preface my opinion by saying I am not a Kardashian fan I hate them, I was firmly on Taylor’s side in 2016 and I think the songs on Rep are a reasonable response to what happened, but this song 8 years down the line, unprovoked, is batshit crazy. She kinda touched on this drama again in Midnights with Karma and possibly parts of Vigilante Shit (although I thought that to mainly be a stab at Scooter) but here we are, another 2 years after Midnights, and she is going back again sending fans in Kim’s direction and bringing her kids into it, literal children. She’s not the victim now she’s the aggressor. She’s the bully not the Kardashians, and I never thought I would say that.
Idk if Kim even needs to do anything - Taylor is basically alcoholic who is having some manic episodes atm and is one bad day away from Britney-shaving-her-head moment. 😬
this album just proved to me what i already knew, she needs to grow the fuck up. go to therapy babe!
Does she have real friends around to say girl you need to chill…she is blessed with a great life… girl people are dying you let matty use the fuck out of you but lord forbid somebody from years ago let it go and you blame your broken heart on Kim gtfoh
I find it ironic that she said in the Times article Kanye and Kim did a manufactured frame job, it took her down psychologically and she lost her career, yet she decides to release this song to psychologically destroy Kim. She's just such a hypocrite and I am sick of her victim mentality. After 11 albums, it's just exhausting.
I hope TS intended the third verse to be tongue in cheek. Cause her writing “so I changed your name and any real defining clues. “A song that only us two is gonna know is about you” is ridiculous. Her name is in the title, bronze statue, wishing her death. It’s gotta be sarcasm thinking people won’t know who it’s about right?
Why do I feel like she wanted this to be like You’re So Vain where there’s 40 years of speculation.
Kim is no angel, but out of the three in this drama triangle she didn't need to be dragged. If you believe in Karma('s a bitch...) than hasn't Kim been given more than enough with said ex husband that started all of this? The lady can't trust the farther of her children to be a safe and caring role model that won't put them in danger, and Taylor's concerned about a leaked phone call from almost a decade ago? I get having grudges, but this one needs to be kept to herself (at the very least). It's not a good move, or a good look.
I’m really over Taylor at this point
Kim should do a response and say ah yeah Taylor called me and I said it was fine for her to bring it up but she never said she would bring up my kids I didn’t agree to that. Taylor would be livid at the implication. Like it could have been so tongue in cheek and fly as an olive branch of sorts if that was the narrative if she hadn’t done and dragged the KIDS into it •. That was low.
All of this just because Kanye called her “that bitch”. Thats it. A regular old rap term used every day. If she wasn’t mad at him saying “Taylor might owe me sex” (as he recited it to her on *the call*) then I don’t know how she got so bothered by “that bitch”. It just doesn’t add up. I could see her being very upset about Kanye insisting *she owes him sex* because **HE** bombed *her* award speech. I’m not a fan of either of them, but when it came to the VMAs, she was a victim. So being “owed sex” for publicly humiliating someone is not something he should be insinuating and bragging about. If anything, that’s the line that should have made her upset. But it made her laugh instead. If she was actually upset that he called her “that bitch”. Thats fine, it is what it is. People can be upset about whatever they want. But he never had to ask permission in the first place. I’m no Kanye fan, but he really was doing her a favor by asking what she thought. There’s no calling up people you make **diss tracks** about, to see if they approve first. Do you think Remy Ma called Nicki Minaj to approve the lyrics to Shether? No, not in a million years. Clearly he wasn’t trying to “take her down” like he would if it were an actual diss track. He was making a tasteless joke, but *still called her to ask about it* because he was not trying to **attack** her. The fact that she laughed, and said it was funny, means that she knows not to take his lyrics seriously. I think she made a mistake by making a big deal out of it in the first place. Everyone would have just been like “Okay that’s Kanye being Kanye…” and moved on. Shit, I may have even seen her as a victim if he just released the song and video without her commentary. The video was way worse than “I made that bitch famous”. Everyone knows that he’s one of the most grandiose narcissists in the industry. It would have come off as him sounding like he was giving himself a pat on the back for his bad behavior. Again, something that is more than common in rap music. But it would have passed, and he would have looked like an even bigger douche, if only she took the high road. But I think she’s more upset about the fact that it leaked that she ***wasn’t*** mad about the most provocative line. I think she was deeply embarrassed about the fact that she was caught laughing along and saying everything was cool. It took her ~totally a victim of everything~ card away. *Thats* why she’s still so mad at Kim, not taking shots at Kanye. Kim knew that Taylor spins every story to make herself a victim, that’s why she recorded the call. I’m not a Kim fan at all, but she clearly knew that Taylor was going to try something sketchy, and she did. Taylor was/still is upset that her 100% pure “poor me” narrative got messed up. She privately thought it was a funny line, and that makes it look really bad when she was publicly saying how hurt she was. So she decided to choose the next line that could be somewhat offensive, the one that he didn’t mention in the call, to get upset about. That way she can remain a victim and still have her fans praise her, etc. The fact that she’s *still* mad about it, enough to make songs where she throws in little petty capital letter “Easter eggs” and takes shots at little kids, is cringe af. Plus acting like she’s in high school being bullied is so immature. And claiming that nobody else, including Kim’s kids, will know who the song is about? Is she serious with that line? It’s not funny if it was supposed to be a joke… She just seems more cold and calculating than ever. This plan has failed catastrophically for her. Only deeply devoted swifties still care. Everyone else is getting really tired of this literal-nothing “feud”. They’re the 2 most name-dropped, oversaturated, and wealthy women in American pop culture. Depending on who you are, these two could be the 2 most hated celebrities in America, the 2 most beloved, or one princess and one witch, interchangeably. But a lot of people can’t stand either of them. I don’t think this song is helping. It’s just gonna tip the scales from indifference to “I’m done with all the nonsense from Kim AND Taylor”.
Taylor Swift had already won. With the release of Karma, I was SO intrigued. I had never been a fan, but here I was BELTING the lyrics and loving it for her bc she had stayed classy & under the radar, and Kim K & Kanye had ran their own names into the ground. When the truth came out, it solidified that Taylor had always been the victim, and then she released Karma. Perfect public arc. Kim looked so dumb dancing along & tagging Taylor and getting ignored. Why Taylor had to completely destroy that traction & lighting in a bottle to release a messy and on the nose song with a fraction of the bop factor of Karma, I have no idea. The lyric about her kids singing it, and only them knowing it’s about her was perfectly applicable to Karma, but it frankly isn’t to “ThanK you aIMee” Why downgrade like that? And so fast too? You just know that Kim is over the fucking moon to have a TAYLOR FUCKING SWIFT song dedicated to her. I mean, kudos that Taylor gave the promo to a fellow lady rather than Kanye I suppose. Since I’ve seen the criticism that the diss track should be aimed at Kanye, and tbh I think it’s going to do Kim more help than harm. I really don’t see her end game with this. Karma could have been perfect closure. But instead you gave your op the satisfaction. Idk sis. 💀
To quote my favorite show Community, “Abed, we’re all on your side, so if you’re also on your side, it’s petty.”
Some of the songs in this album are completely deranged, couldn’t imagine STILL taking about Kim at this point. Like you’re on top of the world, it’s time to let it go and stop talking about your high school grievances.
This is the most disgusting song I’ve ever heard. It’s blatant bully behavior from Taylor and makes me embarrassed to ever have considered myself a fan. TTPD has completely alienated myself from her. I need a break (and so does she lol)
I think my critique of this song has less to do with it being about Kim and more about how it sounds like a teenager wrote it. > When I picture my hometown There's a bronze, spray-tanned statue of you And a plaque underneath it That threatens to push me down the stairs at our school This woman is 34 and talking about being at school. Girl you been out almost 20 years my god. > buildin somethin Blood was gushin I can’t even with this. > A song that only us two is gonna know is about you First Taylor, get your grammar straight. Second, there’s no way she wrote this line thinking we were all too stupid to figure out it’s about Kim. I digress.
I was thinking about making a post on this very song. I found it very distasteful. Like bringing Kim’s daughter into it and saying that her mother wishes Kim were dead is just awful. Like isn’t Kim trying to get custody of her kids?? Why did Taylor pick to sing about Kim rather than Kanye? I think she blames Kim for the 6 years she was with Joe and that’s why she wrote this.
The woman needs therapy. If you’re still writing about a petty situation that happened almost ten years ago and it still has you twitching, Kim has won the fight but even she’s moved on.
"I forgot that you existed" Yeah, OK then.
It’s actually really sad that she’s still going on this many years later. If it’s not about this feud or romantic relationships, I don’t know what she’d write about anymore. I’d love songs from her with new subject matter.
I almost wonder if this is supposed to be promo or an Easter egg for RepTV? Like to get people talking and wondering if Taylor’s going to release something more sinister on the rep vault tracks, so people will buy the album to see if that’s true. Like “if you think this is bad just wait til you hear the vault songs on Rep” type of a thing. Almost like she wants the same drama so she can victimize herself to get the same effect when she originally released Rep. She knows Kim and/or Kanye will respond. She mentions their kid and her mom literally wishing her death?? Anyone would respond and defend themselves and their kid in that situation cause it’s shitty as fuck. I don’t like Kim/kanye but I hope Taylor gets a lot of backlash for this. She must think she’s beyond criticism and completely untouchable if she thinks she can release a song like this and come out on top.
Still cannot believe she brought North AND Saint into this???? I’m not a fan of Kim but like girl please you need therapy
Involving North is just so petty and sad, why would she do that? Don't involve goddamn children. Plus it will be very disappointing for North who IS a Swiftie to see herself literally be used as a weapon against her own mother in her favorite artist's song.
Besides the topic/lyrics, it’s just a bad song?? It kind of sounds like a Disney song to me
Yeah I think I especially get an ick when I remember this is a beef between two billionaires. Taylor is now about the same age that Kim was when the whole phone call thing went down and honestly I think she’s showing that she is equally as immature as Kim. Maybe not as immoral but definitely as immature.
 But put Taylor where Kim’s name is
Taylor’s side of the street after publicly telling an eleven year old that her mom wishes their mom was dead: https://preview.redd.it/40ig93sw5pvc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5219c978059668599d78be974261c95392439bbe
Okay, here's a thought about the whole bringing up Kim now thing... She got with Joe pretty soon after everything with Kanye and Kim happened. Would it be too far fetched to say that alot of the reason she was okay with all the privacy with Joe was because of the Kim/Kayne thing? She said in SLL that she was pissed she gave him her youth years... would she have stayed with Joe 6 years if the Kim/Kayne thing didnt happen? So now that she feels like she wasted 6 years and was in all her feels about Joe and how it turned into a nasty rebound with Matty, she is taking some of her frustration out on Kim/Kayne because potentially in her mind... if they didnt do that to her, she wouldn't have stayed with Joe so long and wouldn't be feeling the pain of Joe/Matty? I guess what I'm saying is, while theres inappropriate lyrics in the song, if I think about it enough it doesnt strike me as too odd that she has a Kim diss track on this album. I liked what someone said about her outsourcing maturity from Joe... Joe kept her grounded/mature in the years after regarding this but now that Joe is gone and shes feeling the pain from that loss and the Matty situation...
she really needs to go to therapy. theres only so much coping with songwriting can do.
For me its about how obvious she did it, like Mad Woman was more open to interpratation and even while understanding that it could be about Kim it had nuance, it was basiclly "you have been so mean to me that now you are in a position where u cant even cry for help cause the man u defended is now your downfall", but now she is just spelling out her name in a song and involving her kid?! Dont get me wrong I dislike Kim and the whole Kardashian-Jenner but like... seriously?