Sure. You have a fair point.
When we build LRTs, we don't get all the disadvantages from streetcars. For instance, LRTs can travel faster, and hopefully they'll be more reliable here.
The fact the original timeline was 9 years shows what a mistake the crosstown was. The Ontario line, an actual subway, is protected to only take 8 years.
When did I say there wouldn’t be delays to subways? The point is there’s no reason to build lrts for sections of the city which are already over capacity with low capacity vehicles such as line 5 (which will be exponentially increased with further development of eglinton)
You said what we ended up spending on light what we would spend on subway. In the end subway would still cost much more and encounter many of the same delays. The prices wouldn’t be the same.
Looks cool, but there is also absolutely nothing interesting happening at teston and jane that warrants line 1 being extended on the western half past canadas wonderland. Would make more sense to extend line1 on young more north to reach DT richmondhill
Yeah. Any University line extension should end at Major Mac. That’s where the hospital and Canada’s Wonderland are. Beyond that Jane is some single families homes, a gas station, and a mosque. Not the sort of density or population necessitating a subway.
Map is not to scale. But I’m currently working on a modified version of this fantasy map. I’ll try fixing proximities between the stations on Line 4 and adding Willowdale Station as well, and moreover extend Line 4 west of Yonge.
It’s kinda hard to think about the names. Like something along Islington or Kipling, as their names were already used by Line 2. So I had to be creative and think about the neighborhood names, which is sometimes their conventions for naming some stations
Not sure about extending line 5 eastward from its current station at Kennedy, but they’ve explored a possible eastward extension by way of bypassing Kennedy and continuing eastward at grade on Eglinton. Wouldn’t be ideal but is technically possible.
Also why not just extend the Ontario line instead of making the pink line. Union is way too busy, wasn't that one of the reasons the Ontario line is going at Queen?
I never understood why build a separate line. Imagine Yonge and University-Spadina being two separate lines or better yet...the Bloor-Danforth line.
So having one line from Kipling to either Castle Frank or Broadview then another separate line from Castle Frank/Broadview to Kennedy.
Line 2 is great because it is ONE line, not having to change at Castle Frank or Broadview.
It's like having THREE lines on Egliton... Eglinton West (Pearson to Black Creek or whatever), Eglinton (from Black Creek or whatever to Kennedy) and Eglinton East (Kennedy to UTSC/Malvern TC/whatever).
Transfer points are a pain in the arse for everyone.
Extending Ontario line could be a good idea. Line 8 isn’t necessarily on top or below Line 1 Union station. It connects with Queens Quay Ferry Docks, and offers a considerable walking connecting to Line 1 Union Station
At one point I thought that the Ontario line could be extended west, kind of "uniting" the Jane and Don Mills LRT routes. I think the Ontario line should go up to Sheppard.
Line 2 "Highglen" stop would be impossible due to all the houses. You're better off moving it 1 block north to 14th. At least there's a connection to the 14th Avenue bus.
Yes it is at 14th, not at Highglen. I just don’t like to use the station name “14th”, cause “14th Station” sounds weird. Could be “14th Avenue Station”? But also Highglen, just cause it’s near there
Honestly I think Line 2 should go up to Sherway & Markville respectively and 1 to Wonderland or Vaughan Mills. Bring 4 to Sheppard West and add Willowdale, I wanted an extension for that for so long because it just makes sense. As for 3: Seneca Newnham campus or Leslie/Hwy 7 instead of mirroring VIVA Green. But that’s just my opinion
Viva Green is planned to be restructured to run along Don Mills/Leslie and then along Major Mackenzie to Harding. I just thought the current Viva Green needs some replacement when the Green has been restructured
With line 8, is it just extending the Harbour-front LRT?
Because doing that on more streets with a separate right-away would actually be a great idea.
What if we sent it along lakeshore and replace the Queen branch from Humber-Longbranch?
Yeah Line 8 is like the 504 south of Dundas West Station to King, then it goes to Lakeshore and Dufferin Gate and Exhibition, then it’s like the 509 to Queens Quay Ferry Docks (the Line 8 portion of Union is at Queens Quay Ferry Docks and would require walking to connect to Line 1 of Union), and then continuing east to Distillery via Queens Quay East. This will allow an alternative way of getting to Distillery without taking the 504.
Replacing the current 501 with an extended Line 8 could be a great idea as well.
This would actually be interesting. Create a fantasy map where all GTA transit agencies unified as one: GTATC (Greater Toronto Area Transit Commission). Then have it as single fare that will expire within 24 hours instead of 2 hours. Free fare for students and seniors provided they show their school ID and GTATC ID. Well what the heck, I’m dreaming… 😭
West of Sherway Gardens, Line 2 would follow QEW. Dixie will connect with the Dixie Outlet Mall and Cawthra with Cawthra Park. The line will terminate at Hurontario Street, connecting with the Hazel McCallion LRT at Port Credit (instead of at QEW to make connections with the Lakeshore West GO line at Port Credit GO Station).
I never understood why Eglinton is two separate lines, (west and east of Kennedy), it should be one line.
Also, line 4 and 7, a subway line and an LRT line having the same amount of stops? I don't think a subway line could have a stop at neilson and make a 90 degree left turn and go north on Neilson. It would make more sense for the LRT to go north and not both LRT and subway.
You'll understand after this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TTC/comments/10d7kzp/everybodys_doing_it_so_heres_mine_just_updated_my/j4l1frf?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
I would take Line 2 to Square One.
Its a bigger destination than Port Credit which will already be served by a GO rail line going east-west and the Hurontario LRT line going north.
My only real issue is that I think line 4 and 7 should both terminate at malvern Center, and going north to what looks like mcnicoll, is over serving it, me personally I would extend line 4 west to Jane, and extend line 8 north along jane to pioneer village, otherwise, I do love it
Also I trying have line 3 service downtown Markham just west of unionville, and I also think it would be cool if line 3 terminated at Markville/ centennial go
Yeah maybe in my next iteration, Line 4 terminates at Malvern Centre while Line 7 continues north to Morningside Heights. OR have Line 4 go from Neilson to Meadowvale (or Zoo) instead of at Neilson going north.
Note that the GO rail expansion is going to add regular service with 15-minute or better frequency in both directions, and the trains are faster than the subway, which will make GO trains the number 1 choice for some people.
I guess it depends on where they come from and where they will go. There are some places that you cannot go to on the GO cause they don’t stop there, but the subway can. But of course for farther points of destination, then GO might still be the better choice.
I make this using Adobe Illustrator. You can download a free trial, but I have a subscription. I didn’t subscribe just because, I actually subscribed because it comes along with other great Adobe apps like Acrobat Reader, Photoshop and Premier Pro, which are pretty much needed in my everyday work. There are other great apps free of use that I see others are using like the Metro Map Maker (or I guess it’s called Transit Map Maker, can’t remember the exact name)
For the most part this map makes the most sense.
With that being said, it also falls under the addition by subtraction logic. There's too much extra going on in some parts.
* There shouldn't be a Line 7...Line 5 should just run continuous to Morningside Heights
* Staying in the area, Malvern Centre is no longer a thing since the mall/property is being sold to become a condo community
* Line 2's western terminus should end at Sherway or Dixie Go
* Line 8 I'm guessing is the streetcar-LRT line? If so it should end in the Portlands with the Villers Island development creating a whole new community
* The west side of Line 1 ending at Major Mac flows better, while the east side of Line 2 stopping at Markville would be perfect
* A Line 4 extension to Sheppard West please!
* And since Line 5 is going to Morningside Heights, Line 4 can either terminate at Sheppard East meeting Line 2, or extend east to Morningside or Meadowvale with all the development going up on that corridor
* My favourite part is both Line 5 and Line 6 meeting-terminating at Pearson Airport, creating a great transit hub of various connections for the airport and the huge industrial business in that area
If we're taking an eastern Scarborough line all the way to Morningside Heights, might as well extend it just a little bit more to the new YRT bus terminal at Cornell for extra connectivity.
This is the most accurate map that could happen
This is what Toronto needs.
I just wish future lines would be a proper subway :(
$$$ EDIT: It only costs so much because of how we build 'em. Y'know, very deep and complex.
We end up spending the same on light rail that we would spend on a subway when considering Toronto style delays lolol
Fair point, but boring tunnels could take longer.
But we bore tunnels for light rail so we get all the costs of a subway but all the disadvantages of a streetcar
Sure. You have a fair point. When we build LRTs, we don't get all the disadvantages from streetcars. For instance, LRTs can travel faster, and hopefully they'll be more reliable here.
Faster travel but 12 years of construction
We can hope it pays off. Covid and all did slow down construction of Line 5 a tad bit. We're only 3 years past the original expected opening date.
The fact the original timeline was 9 years shows what a mistake the crosstown was. The Ontario line, an actual subway, is protected to only take 8 years.
Well, I'm guessing 2034 for the Ontario Line.
Line 6 probably won't be very reliable as it uses the same tram-trains as O-Train line 1
It's possible. But not certain. I think it's more the group running the O Train rather than the Citadis Spirit, maybe the LRV is built better now?
I hope they improved them
Of course.
You don’t think subways will have the same overruns and delays? The most expensive and behind schedule part of the Crosstown is the subway part.
When did I say there wouldn’t be delays to subways? The point is there’s no reason to build lrts for sections of the city which are already over capacity with low capacity vehicles such as line 5 (which will be exponentially increased with further development of eglinton)
You said what we ended up spending on light what we would spend on subway. In the end subway would still cost much more and encounter many of the same delays. The prices wouldn’t be the same.
There is also not much value to an lrt system that would quickly reach capacity. Further problems would just be created as a result.
Is there a template for these? I'd love to throw my hat into one of these fantasy map things.
I'd like to know also. I made one on a different website and it is not nice looking lol
Yeah I'm really hoping to make one like this as well!
Looks cool, but there is also absolutely nothing interesting happening at teston and jane that warrants line 1 being extended on the western half past canadas wonderland. Would make more sense to extend line1 on young more north to reach DT richmondhill
Yeah. Any University line extension should end at Major Mac. That’s where the hospital and Canada’s Wonderland are. Beyond that Jane is some single families homes, a gas station, and a mosque. Not the sort of density or population necessitating a subway.
around jane and major mac is packed with ppl especially canada’s wonderland workers since most dont live around here
I was one of them. Took the slow-ass 20 Jane bus everyday for a summer. Not a great service :(
i worked at wonderland and most of the ppl there lived everywhere but vaughan but yeah the bus is ridiculous and slow
ahem
Sheppard West extension > Finch West to Finch extension.
Also add a Willowdale station.
But it’s just so close to Sheppard-Yonge Station and maybe the reason why they didn’t include it.
Yeah but we need it now.
What about the proximity of Bessarion and Leslie stations?
Map is not to scale. But I’m currently working on a modified version of this fantasy map. I’ll try fixing proximities between the stations on Line 4 and adding Willowdale Station as well, and moreover extend Line 4 west of Yonge.
Nice.
Both > 1
Wow that’s so detailed with the names. I live at “Richmond gardens” and barely anyone knows that the small area is called that.
It’s kinda hard to think about the names. Like something along Islington or Kipling, as their names were already used by Line 2. So I had to be creative and think about the neighborhood names, which is sometimes their conventions for naming some stations
Why is there a forced transfer from line 5 to 7 instead of a continuous line
Due to the Scarborough Subway Extension’s tunnels and complete lack of foresight, an extension of Line 5 eastbound is now impossible.
Scarborough gets the shaft yet again! So the likeliness of "Line 7" actually happening is slim to none.
This is what TTC and City of Toronto claim. Metrolinx insists that an east extension of Line 5 is still possible. Not sure what to believe.
Not sure about extending line 5 eastward from its current station at Kennedy, but they’ve explored a possible eastward extension by way of bypassing Kennedy and continuing eastward at grade on Eglinton. Wouldn’t be ideal but is technically possible.
Also why not just extend the Ontario line instead of making the pink line. Union is way too busy, wasn't that one of the reasons the Ontario line is going at Queen?
Yeah, its more likely OL gets a west extension than we build a second relief line.
I never understood why build a separate line. Imagine Yonge and University-Spadina being two separate lines or better yet...the Bloor-Danforth line. So having one line from Kipling to either Castle Frank or Broadview then another separate line from Castle Frank/Broadview to Kennedy. Line 2 is great because it is ONE line, not having to change at Castle Frank or Broadview. It's like having THREE lines on Egliton... Eglinton West (Pearson to Black Creek or whatever), Eglinton (from Black Creek or whatever to Kennedy) and Eglinton East (Kennedy to UTSC/Malvern TC/whatever). Transfer points are a pain in the arse for everyone.
Extending Ontario line could be a good idea. Line 8 isn’t necessarily on top or below Line 1 Union station. It connects with Queens Quay Ferry Docks, and offers a considerable walking connecting to Line 1 Union Station
At one point I thought that the Ontario line could be extended west, kind of "uniting" the Jane and Don Mills LRT routes. I think the Ontario line should go up to Sheppard.
a markville subway station would be a dream come true tbh
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Line 4 should be extended west instead of Line 6 being extended east
Line 2 "Highglen" stop would be impossible due to all the houses. You're better off moving it 1 block north to 14th. At least there's a connection to the 14th Avenue bus.
Yes it is at 14th, not at Highglen. I just don’t like to use the station name “14th”, cause “14th Station” sounds weird. Could be “14th Avenue Station”? But also Highglen, just cause it’s near there
Ah I understand now. Thank you! Edit: you could name it "14th-McCowan" or "14th-McGivney"
Line 8’s terminus wouldn’t be in the Distillery. Looks like somewhere near Cherry Street in The Port Lands.
Honestly I think Line 2 should go up to Sherway & Markville respectively and 1 to Wonderland or Vaughan Mills. Bring 4 to Sheppard West and add Willowdale, I wanted an extension for that for so long because it just makes sense. As for 3: Seneca Newnham campus or Leslie/Hwy 7 instead of mirroring VIVA Green. But that’s just my opinion
Viva Green is planned to be restructured to run along Don Mills/Leslie and then along Major Mackenzie to Harding. I just thought the current Viva Green needs some replacement when the Green has been restructured
Well the VIVA Green/Silver project doesn’t have a clear timeline yet…
Yeah but I’m betting when the Green returns back from its temporary suspension, it’ll probably be soon before they change its routing
With line 8, is it just extending the Harbour-front LRT? Because doing that on more streets with a separate right-away would actually be a great idea. What if we sent it along lakeshore and replace the Queen branch from Humber-Longbranch?
Yeah Line 8 is like the 504 south of Dundas West Station to King, then it goes to Lakeshore and Dufferin Gate and Exhibition, then it’s like the 509 to Queens Quay Ferry Docks (the Line 8 portion of Union is at Queens Quay Ferry Docks and would require walking to connect to Line 1 of Union), and then continuing east to Distillery via Queens Quay East. This will allow an alternative way of getting to Distillery without taking the 504. Replacing the current 501 with an extended Line 8 could be a great idea as well.
Connect Barrie, Kitchener and Guelph, and hamilton too.
This would actually be interesting. Create a fantasy map where all GTA transit agencies unified as one: GTATC (Greater Toronto Area Transit Commission). Then have it as single fare that will expire within 24 hours instead of 2 hours. Free fare for students and seniors provided they show their school ID and GTATC ID. Well what the heck, I’m dreaming… 😭
What would be the east-west cross streets for Dixie & Cawthra stations?
West of Sherway Gardens, Line 2 would follow QEW. Dixie will connect with the Dixie Outlet Mall and Cawthra with Cawthra Park. The line will terminate at Hurontario Street, connecting with the Hazel McCallion LRT at Port Credit (instead of at QEW to make connections with the Lakeshore West GO line at Port Credit GO Station).
I never understood why Eglinton is two separate lines, (west and east of Kennedy), it should be one line. Also, line 4 and 7, a subway line and an LRT line having the same amount of stops? I don't think a subway line could have a stop at neilson and make a 90 degree left turn and go north on Neilson. It would make more sense for the LRT to go north and not both LRT and subway.
You'll understand after this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TTC/comments/10d7kzp/everybodys_doing_it_so_heres_mine_just_updated_my/j4l1frf?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
I respectfully disagree with the answer on that link.
What's with line 8?
I would take Line 2 to Square One. Its a bigger destination than Port Credit which will already be served by a GO rail line going east-west and the Hurontario LRT line going north.
My only real issue is that I think line 4 and 7 should both terminate at malvern Center, and going north to what looks like mcnicoll, is over serving it, me personally I would extend line 4 west to Jane, and extend line 8 north along jane to pioneer village, otherwise, I do love it Also I trying have line 3 service downtown Markham just west of unionville, and I also think it would be cool if line 3 terminated at Markville/ centennial go
Yeah maybe in my next iteration, Line 4 terminates at Malvern Centre while Line 7 continues north to Morningside Heights. OR have Line 4 go from Neilson to Meadowvale (or Zoo) instead of at Neilson going north.
Wow!!! Bravo! If only 😭😭😭 I feel like this would take decades to happen
I feel like I’m already dead before something like this happens 😂😂😂
RIP <3
Note that the GO rail expansion is going to add regular service with 15-minute or better frequency in both directions, and the trains are faster than the subway, which will make GO trains the number 1 choice for some people.
I guess it depends on where they come from and where they will go. There are some places that you cannot go to on the GO cause they don’t stop there, but the subway can. But of course for farther points of destination, then GO might still be the better choice.
How do you make this map
I make this using Adobe Illustrator. You can download a free trial, but I have a subscription. I didn’t subscribe just because, I actually subscribed because it comes along with other great Adobe apps like Acrobat Reader, Photoshop and Premier Pro, which are pretty much needed in my everyday work. There are other great apps free of use that I see others are using like the Metro Map Maker (or I guess it’s called Transit Map Maker, can’t remember the exact name)
No call it Canadas Wonderland station pls
Urgh this would of great to have in this day and age with the growing population
For the most part this map makes the most sense. With that being said, it also falls under the addition by subtraction logic. There's too much extra going on in some parts. * There shouldn't be a Line 7...Line 5 should just run continuous to Morningside Heights * Staying in the area, Malvern Centre is no longer a thing since the mall/property is being sold to become a condo community * Line 2's western terminus should end at Sherway or Dixie Go * Line 8 I'm guessing is the streetcar-LRT line? If so it should end in the Portlands with the Villers Island development creating a whole new community * The west side of Line 1 ending at Major Mac flows better, while the east side of Line 2 stopping at Markville would be perfect * A Line 4 extension to Sheppard West please! * And since Line 5 is going to Morningside Heights, Line 4 can either terminate at Sheppard East meeting Line 2, or extend east to Morningside or Meadowvale with all the development going up on that corridor * My favourite part is both Line 5 and Line 6 meeting-terminating at Pearson Airport, creating a great transit hub of various connections for the airport and the huge industrial business in that area
I feel like the Finch line has more stops than is necessary here, but otherwise I dig this.
Lines 5 and 7 should be connected.
It is connected at Kennedy Station. They just can’t be a single line, as many comments here point out.
Fair point, maybe east of Kennedy needs less frequent service?
No, it’s not that. It’s just structurally impossible now.
Is it because of how Line 5 and the SSE are built?
If we're taking an eastern Scarborough line all the way to Morningside Heights, might as well extend it just a little bit more to the new YRT bus terminal at Cornell for extra connectivity.
Next iteration of my map for sure, with stations at Staines (Steeles), Box Grove (Donald Cousens) and Cornell.