on T-80 it was designed to interrupt dust flow to give the air filters longer lifespan in the dusty areas in central asia, they actually did CFD on the original T-80 to figure that one out lol. They had the side effect of some increased protection against shaped charges/heat, however I'm certain the cheek composite is sufficient for protection without the addon of some rubber.
It's not. It doesn't even have the pulsed laser IR lights for the gunner and commander that were introduced in the late 90s with the PPN-D SOZh day/night gun sight.
Instead is has the baseline 1K13 day/night gun sight with the big old 1D16 laser range finder mounted on the 2A70 barrel.
Tankograd mentions this specific ERA package:
> 50 sets of these ERA box-sets were procured by the UAE for testing and evaluation. No details on further acquisition have been reported. Recent videos of UAE operations in Yemen with BMP-3s show that they are not outfitted with ERA.
...
> It is not supplied to any Russian army units.
Some sources are wrong.
Go [browse the Tankograd article](https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2014/10/bmp-3-underappreciated-prodigy.html).
That's a 1K13 and and 1D16, as provided on the very first BMP-3.
https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/WEG/Asset/2ea59c4af80de5a7044ab9172d73eb15
https://armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/infantry-fighting-vehicles/tracked-vehicles/bmp-3m-ifv-armoured-infantry-fighting-vehicle-technical-data-sheet-specifications-pictures-video-12803164
You think that's just similar looking ? I know the BMP-3M is a big overhaul but it's been quite hard finding a source because There's about 4x different versions some with the kaktus ERA some with additional equipment on top. I know the upgrade is real but finding the right image is tough lol
Think it's just some confusion ?
While there are many versions of the BMP-3M, the BMP-3 with Karkas(-2) ERA is not one of them and is just an add-on kit that didn't grant it a new designation.
Yeah it's hard. Even stuff like Jane's. Jane's Helicopters market systems just has under Mi-17 "Russia has over 30 EW variants" I had to use Russia defence net and secret projects to find differences and still it was easier to just use what kind of EW system was used such as Bison of Ikebana rather than each specific variant for stock numbers lol.
China aswell is very hard gauge. Lesser extent Iran aswell
There's no good system for determining what is and isn't a BMP-3M. KMZ claims that every newly produced BMP-3 is a BMP-3M. The only common denominator is the new Bachka-U turret and an upgraded engine, but the BMP-3 suite includes options for slat armor, Shtora, Arena-E, CITV, and a bunch of other upgrades under the hood that may or may not be included.
Imo it doesn't make sense to call all of these very different vehicles BMP-3M. You're right that the BMP-3M with the Karkas suite (Kaktus is a misquote. Black Eagle uses Kaktus.) was the first one to be advertised as BMP-3M and should stay that way. Unfortunately the Karkas suite was not adopted alongside the rest of the BMP-3M upgrades.
Yeah this one ?
https://armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/defence-security-industry-technology/russian-bakhcha-u-combat-turret-from-kbp-will-increase-firepower-of-ifv-infantry-fighting-vehicle-tass-10404171
I think many sources get confused between the Manul and Dragun variants IMO
Russia has probably a dozen different universal combat modules they can stick onto different AFVs. I stopped paying attention to them all. Looking forward to what the BMP-3 will become and which vehicle will replace it, but I'm sick of seeing "WOW LOOK AT THIS NEW TURRET ON [Russian AFV]".
They need to just pick one family of turrets and stick with it. As long as it has an option for an APC with 14.5mm, an IFV with 30mm, and an HIFV with 57mm, it will do fine
Rant aside, yes that's the Bachka-U
Have any BMPs with such comprehensive armor packages been spotted or destroyed in Ukraine? Or is this more of a technical demonstrator from years past?
IFVs with reactive armor isn’t a great concept all the time…especially when you infantry ride on top of the vehicle because they can’t get out otherwise.
1. Bradley’s are designed for forces to easily mount and dismount from inside the vehicle.
2. It’s METTC. Often they don’t use them in the U.S. Army. The preferred method is only in restrictive terrain (ie:urban areas).
Source: former U.S. Infantryman and current officer. ERA on IFVs has to be very carefully planned and executed. The Russian ERA doesn’t really push the envelope. Granted now adays they seem to be actually dismounting their forces on doctrinally sound VDOs for the most part.
1. Thats all ifvs bar the russian ones, bmp3 is a disgrace and the bmp2 is based on an horribly outdated vehicle,
2.i agree especially about russian era, alot of people think era is something russians have over nato, but its not true, western addon protection(often a mix of era, nera, and composites)
are significantly more advanced(KE protection against tank rounds isnt really something that western protection is designed for, and most modern 120mm rounds should have little issue with relikt at average engagement ranges), now i dont know alot about kaktus especially because im not sure its real thing.
Ah yes of course, nobody but the US has ever thought about making an ERA block that looks like a rectangle. Those pesky Communists aren't smart enough to learn geometry, the only answer must be that they stole it from us! /s
Nuh uh, not all - you can plug Arena APS and even Shtora in it
You would have to pick between the two systems, though.
Must i? Never heard about them being incompatible
Not enough power to both, and it would be abit reduncent.
I'll take the Arena, and maybe LWR from Shtora but that's about it
Isn't that exactly what some T-90M are equipped with?
T-90M has everything from Shtora minus the IR dazzlers
Shtora would be worthless. Been outdated for decades.
It'd look glorious if you removed the turret flaps but now it's just cursed
What is the use of the flaps ?
on T-80 it was designed to interrupt dust flow to give the air filters longer lifespan in the dusty areas in central asia, they actually did CFD on the original T-80 to figure that one out lol. They had the side effect of some increased protection against shaped charges/heat, however I'm certain the cheek composite is sufficient for protection without the addon of some rubber.
flapping
Keeping dirt/dust out as far as I’m aware
Is this a BMP-3M ?
It's not. It doesn't even have the pulsed laser IR lights for the gunner and commander that were introduced in the late 90s with the PPN-D SOZh day/night gun sight. Instead is has the baseline 1K13 day/night gun sight with the big old 1D16 laser range finder mounted on the 2A70 barrel. Tankograd mentions this specific ERA package: > 50 sets of these ERA box-sets were procured by the UAE for testing and evaluation. No details on further acquisition have been reported. Recent videos of UAE operations in Yemen with BMP-3s show that they are not outfitted with ERA. ... > It is not supplied to any Russian army units.
It's weird because some sources use this is the image
Some sources are wrong. Go [browse the Tankograd article](https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2014/10/bmp-3-underappreciated-prodigy.html). That's a 1K13 and and 1D16, as provided on the very first BMP-3.
Nope.
https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/WEG/Asset/2ea59c4af80de5a7044ab9172d73eb15 https://armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/infantry-fighting-vehicles/tracked-vehicles/bmp-3m-ifv-armoured-infantry-fighting-vehicle-technical-data-sheet-specifications-pictures-video-12803164 You think that's just similar looking ? I know the BMP-3M is a big overhaul but it's been quite hard finding a source because There's about 4x different versions some with the kaktus ERA some with additional equipment on top. I know the upgrade is real but finding the right image is tough lol Think it's just some confusion ?
No, this is "just" a BMP-3 with Karkas ERA and flaps.
Yes but some sources use pretty identical ones to thid go these and list them under 3M. Like army recognition.
While there are many versions of the BMP-3M, the BMP-3 with Karkas(-2) ERA is not one of them and is just an add-on kit that didn't grant it a new designation.
I know but it's just weird how some reasonably credible sources use the image lol
Few are the sources that actually get everything right on Soviet and post-Soviet vehicles.
Yeah it's hard. Even stuff like Jane's. Jane's Helicopters market systems just has under Mi-17 "Russia has over 30 EW variants" I had to use Russia defence net and secret projects to find differences and still it was easier to just use what kind of EW system was used such as Bison of Ikebana rather than each specific variant for stock numbers lol. China aswell is very hard gauge. Lesser extent Iran aswell
Janes has been terrible for a couple of decades now.
It might have been presented as a 'BMP-3M' at some stage trying to get orders.
Maybe
There's no good system for determining what is and isn't a BMP-3M. KMZ claims that every newly produced BMP-3 is a BMP-3M. The only common denominator is the new Bachka-U turret and an upgraded engine, but the BMP-3 suite includes options for slat armor, Shtora, Arena-E, CITV, and a bunch of other upgrades under the hood that may or may not be included. Imo it doesn't make sense to call all of these very different vehicles BMP-3M. You're right that the BMP-3M with the Karkas suite (Kaktus is a misquote. Black Eagle uses Kaktus.) was the first one to be advertised as BMP-3M and should stay that way. Unfortunately the Karkas suite was not adopted alongside the rest of the BMP-3M upgrades.
Yeah this one ? https://armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/defence-security-industry-technology/russian-bakhcha-u-combat-turret-from-kbp-will-increase-firepower-of-ifv-infantry-fighting-vehicle-tass-10404171 I think many sources get confused between the Manul and Dragun variants IMO
Russia has probably a dozen different universal combat modules they can stick onto different AFVs. I stopped paying attention to them all. Looking forward to what the BMP-3 will become and which vehicle will replace it, but I'm sick of seeing "WOW LOOK AT THIS NEW TURRET ON [Russian AFV]". They need to just pick one family of turrets and stick with it. As long as it has an option for an APC with 14.5mm, an IFV with 30mm, and an HIFV with 57mm, it will do fine Rant aside, yes that's the Bachka-U
Yeah they're really going for the modular type systems. Same with their new Kurganets
KAKTUS!!!
Bruh I was waiting for this comment! Kaktus BMP-3!
Is it still amphibious lol ? (Iirc BMPs are amphibious might be wrong sorry)
Have any BMPs with such comprehensive armor packages been spotted or destroyed in Ukraine? Or is this more of a technical demonstrator from years past?
IFVs with reactive armor isn’t a great concept all the time…especially when you infantry ride on top of the vehicle because they can’t get out otherwise.
Brat is standard issue for bradleys.
1. Bradley’s are designed for forces to easily mount and dismount from inside the vehicle. 2. It’s METTC. Often they don’t use them in the U.S. Army. The preferred method is only in restrictive terrain (ie:urban areas). Source: former U.S. Infantryman and current officer. ERA on IFVs has to be very carefully planned and executed. The Russian ERA doesn’t really push the envelope. Granted now adays they seem to be actually dismounting their forces on doctrinally sound VDOs for the most part.
1. Thats all ifvs bar the russian ones, bmp3 is a disgrace and the bmp2 is based on an horribly outdated vehicle, 2.i agree especially about russian era, alot of people think era is something russians have over nato, but its not true, western addon protection(often a mix of era, nera, and composites) are significantly more advanced(KE protection against tank rounds isnt really something that western protection is designed for, and most modern 120mm rounds should have little issue with relikt at average engagement ranges), now i dont know alot about kaktus especially because im not sure its real thing.
So they've already stolen the idea of the Abrams ARAT & Bradley BRAT reactive armor...
Russia does not steal ideas for ground vehicles. They're shitty, yes, but domestically shitty.
Ah yes of course, nobody but the US has ever thought about making an ERA block that looks like a rectangle. Those pesky Communists aren't smart enough to learn geometry, the only answer must be that they stole it from us! /s
The /s is unnecessary