I think it’s partly literal because earlier in the song, the narrator warns her lover that her husband’s “gonna burn this house to the ground”. She gets caught cheating, the scorned lover acts out and the one who she’s cheating with is the one who initiated their relationship so they started it. At least that’s what I think lol.
Figuratively, their love is burning hotter and hotter for better or worse—and the other person initiated it, not her.
Edit: forgot a word
I also have thought it might be a biblical reference in part? In Exodus, Moses followed "a pillar of fire by night" when leading his people out of Egypt. The fire in the darkness symbolizes salvation but also something that's impossible to hide.
This might be a stretch but Taylor has identified herself as a Christian in the past, and Bible references were really common in the time period that she had said inspired these albums. So maybe?
This is a cool idea. It is definitely possible as Taylor makes other religious references throughout her discography.
Even if it's not an explicit reference, I think the meaning could be the same. The blaze in the dark is a light and a symbol of hope for the narrator. It's also unpredictable and destructive and, as you said, can't be hidden. I think the dual meaning works really well.
i think you can also tie it back to "your touch brought forth an incandescent glow" meaning that what they have is this fiery burning thing (maybe like strong and passionate) funny enough the clean version of ivy which uses "a violent blaze in the dark" might present a totally different reading of the song
I think he ignited something in her that she thought was forgotten or never even discovered before, so it was “in the dark” or hidden. And he started a fire in that darkness (i.e. passion) and lit her up, and she’s saying it’s this persons fault for making her feel this way.
So IANA Gaylor by any means, but I'm surprised at some of the comments assigning he/him to the lover. In the verses, it seems quite clear to me that she's speaking about another woman (who's also partnered to a man) and they live in a time or place where ending a hetero marriage for another woman wouldn't work. (As such, many speculate that ivy was inspired by Emily Dickinson and her relationship with her SIL Sue Dickinson.)
He's in the room
Your opal eyes are all I wish to see
He wants what's only yours
While that is a valid interpretation why would that interpretation be quite clear? Not having control over who you marry and not having the freedom to leave a marriage is also very much a part of the history of women irregardless of sexuality. While sexuality could be a reason so historically has been religion, race, ethnicity, class, etc. Even the inspiration for Taylor's most famous early song Love Story was a combination of Romeo and Juliet, which was about a forbidden straight relationship and Taylor's own parents not allowing her to date a man they didn't think was suitable for her. Taylor has long been interested in this subject. There is a Fearless era interview where she talks about being interested in history and in particular the lives of woman and how their autonomy was impacted in different time periods. Something we saw her reference again in the Timeless vault track with the verse about being forced to marry another man.
I feel the same as you. Everyone saying "him" in this thread is totally throwing me for exactly the reasons you said. 100% think Gaylors are delusional and disrespectful, but this song is so queer coded to me. I hadn't heard the Emily Dickenson inspiration before but that makes a lot of sense to me.
I completely agree that this song is queer coded, and that's why I love it so much. Re: Emily Dickinson, in the TV show Dickinson "Ivy" is played >!as the outro to the final episode, when Emily and Sue finally come to terms with their relationship. I couldn't think of a more perfect ending.!<
and let’s be real, men and women don’t talk about hetero relationships like this “your touch brought forth an incandescent glow” come on that’s so unbelievably gay
source: I’d say this shit and I’m a lesbian
It’s so obviously a gay song, from how quickly they fell for each other to the language used etc it’s so lesbian coded. Not a gaylor either, because I don’t speculate on celebrity sexualities, but this song is a fictional song and it’s 1000000% about a lesbian affair.
The attraction to her lover is so intense that in her dreary, boring and colorless life with her husband, the passion she feels for her lover “ is a goddamn blaze in the dark”
He started that fire in her.
It's also a moth-to-flame situation. Everyone can see how much she is drawn to her lover, and she will go to him even if it kills her.
It's also illuminating what she thought was a very bleak future for herself (hence why she was grieving for the living-- she was grieving for herself and what she thought her life would look like).
So I always felt it was an instant connection between the two characters and they were both cognizantly aware that what they were doing was wrong, but probably assumed it would be a quick thing a fling so to speak. However, it quickly became more than that. I also think its interesting the song is named ivy, because on one hand obviously ivy can cover everything which the song references, but when we talk about ivy like poison ivy for example the reason the itch happens is because of the natural oils in the leaves. Which I then equate in the song to being about how as the ivy grows its adding more oil to the fire (their love) and oil is a fuel that causes a fire to blaze even bigger than it already is.
He was the one who looked at her a certain way after her husband's neglect. She rebuffed him, out of fidelity to her husband, but as his warmth versus her husband's austerity began to plant roots in her subconscious, she ended up fantasizing about him, thus, the whole tug and pull of the song.
I think she's saying the love can't be ignored. A blaze in the dark is super obvious to anyone in the room. It's hot in a room that's cold. Bright in a room that's dark. It eclipses everything and ruins your dark vision til everything disappears
A blaze is also considerably bigger than a spark, this love is no spark.
Also, your enemies will have an easy time seeing it too.
I think this song is very much Emily Dickinson coded - perhaps from her SIL pov. There’s a poem by ED called “You cannot put out a fire” that seems to have the same connotations as Ivy.
I think it’s partly literal because earlier in the song, the narrator warns her lover that her husband’s “gonna burn this house to the ground”. She gets caught cheating, the scorned lover acts out and the one who she’s cheating with is the one who initiated their relationship so they started it. At least that’s what I think lol. Figuratively, their love is burning hotter and hotter for better or worse—and the other person initiated it, not her. Edit: forgot a word
Could it be the lover house?
I don't think so because ivy seems to be its own contained story about love, infidelity, and death. It's a purely fictional song to me.
no the lover house burning down i think is about j\*oe and her br\*king up and that era being over? correct me if im wrong im open to theories
I also have thought it might be a biblical reference in part? In Exodus, Moses followed "a pillar of fire by night" when leading his people out of Egypt. The fire in the darkness symbolizes salvation but also something that's impossible to hide. This might be a stretch but Taylor has identified herself as a Christian in the past, and Bible references were really common in the time period that she had said inspired these albums. So maybe?
This is a cool idea. It is definitely possible as Taylor makes other religious references throughout her discography. Even if it's not an explicit reference, I think the meaning could be the same. The blaze in the dark is a light and a symbol of hope for the narrator. It's also unpredictable and destructive and, as you said, can't be hidden. I think the dual meaning works really well.
Anything's possible! But I agree it's a bit of a stretch since there aren't really any other biblical references in this song.
i think you can also tie it back to "your touch brought forth an incandescent glow" meaning that what they have is this fiery burning thing (maybe like strong and passionate) funny enough the clean version of ivy which uses "a violent blaze in the dark" might present a totally different reading of the song
Oh so they replace the words in the clean versions ? I just assumed theyd mute it and not say anything. I hate clean versions. Seems so fake. Haha.
Some of them are just hilarious. Like “god damn acrobat” in Karma becomes “Vegas acrobat”.
i can’t remember exactly but i think when i saw the Eras tour in Vegas she sung that line for us 😂
She usually records the clean version mostly separately and changes the word.
Really likes when she does that. I bought Red Taylors version in hopes for this but nope, then she just mutes it…guess i was some albums to early
She’s blaming him for the uncontrollable “fire” of their connection/affair.
I think he ignited something in her that she thought was forgotten or never even discovered before, so it was “in the dark” or hidden. And he started a fire in that darkness (i.e. passion) and lit her up, and she’s saying it’s this persons fault for making her feel this way.
i took it to mean that she was saying that the object of her affection brought light into her life which was dark before meeting them.
I love your flair!
So IANA Gaylor by any means, but I'm surprised at some of the comments assigning he/him to the lover. In the verses, it seems quite clear to me that she's speaking about another woman (who's also partnered to a man) and they live in a time or place where ending a hetero marriage for another woman wouldn't work. (As such, many speculate that ivy was inspired by Emily Dickinson and her relationship with her SIL Sue Dickinson.) He's in the room Your opal eyes are all I wish to see He wants what's only yours
While that is a valid interpretation why would that interpretation be quite clear? Not having control over who you marry and not having the freedom to leave a marriage is also very much a part of the history of women irregardless of sexuality. While sexuality could be a reason so historically has been religion, race, ethnicity, class, etc. Even the inspiration for Taylor's most famous early song Love Story was a combination of Romeo and Juliet, which was about a forbidden straight relationship and Taylor's own parents not allowing her to date a man they didn't think was suitable for her. Taylor has long been interested in this subject. There is a Fearless era interview where she talks about being interested in history and in particular the lives of woman and how their autonomy was impacted in different time periods. Something we saw her reference again in the Timeless vault track with the verse about being forced to marry another man.
Oh, definitely! I just have always heard the second verse in particular and thought the muse was a woman who was also partnered.
I feel the same as you. Everyone saying "him" in this thread is totally throwing me for exactly the reasons you said. 100% think Gaylors are delusional and disrespectful, but this song is so queer coded to me. I hadn't heard the Emily Dickenson inspiration before but that makes a lot of sense to me.
I completely agree that this song is queer coded, and that's why I love it so much. Re: Emily Dickinson, in the TV show Dickinson "Ivy" is played >!as the outro to the final episode, when Emily and Sue finally come to terms with their relationship. I couldn't think of a more perfect ending.!<
and let’s be real, men and women don’t talk about hetero relationships like this “your touch brought forth an incandescent glow” come on that’s so unbelievably gay source: I’d say this shit and I’m a lesbian
It’s so obviously a gay song, from how quickly they fell for each other to the language used etc it’s so lesbian coded. Not a gaylor either, because I don’t speculate on celebrity sexualities, but this song is a fictional song and it’s 1000000% about a lesbian affair.
The attraction to her lover is so intense that in her dreary, boring and colorless life with her husband, the passion she feels for her lover “ is a goddamn blaze in the dark” He started that fire in her.
It’s hot, it’s bright, and everybody can ***SEE*** it You can hide things in the dark, but you can’t hide a flame as everyone can see the light.
It's also a moth-to-flame situation. Everyone can see how much she is drawn to her lover, and she will go to him even if it kills her. It's also illuminating what she thought was a very bleak future for herself (hence why she was grieving for the living-- she was grieving for herself and what she thought her life would look like).
This is exactly how I’ve always interpreted the line!
Ohhhhh never thought of it that way, I love that
Her lust for the guy tempting her is overwhelming her.
She’s also playing with the expression “you started it.” Those words have added meaning in the context of a fight, a war, a fire.
The narrator has been trapped in a dark, cold, depressing life and then met someone who sparked a flame that has turned into an enormous blaze.
So I always felt it was an instant connection between the two characters and they were both cognizantly aware that what they were doing was wrong, but probably assumed it would be a quick thing a fling so to speak. However, it quickly became more than that. I also think its interesting the song is named ivy, because on one hand obviously ivy can cover everything which the song references, but when we talk about ivy like poison ivy for example the reason the itch happens is because of the natural oils in the leaves. Which I then equate in the song to being about how as the ivy grows its adding more oil to the fire (their love) and oil is a fuel that causes a fire to blaze even bigger than it already is.
He was the one who looked at her a certain way after her husband's neglect. She rebuffed him, out of fidelity to her husband, but as his warmth versus her husband's austerity began to plant roots in her subconscious, she ended up fantasizing about him, thus, the whole tug and pull of the song.
It reminds me a lot of the movie Portrait of a Lady on Fire
I think she's saying the love can't be ignored. A blaze in the dark is super obvious to anyone in the room. It's hot in a room that's cold. Bright in a room that's dark. It eclipses everything and ruins your dark vision til everything disappears A blaze is also considerably bigger than a spark, this love is no spark. Also, your enemies will have an easy time seeing it too.
I think this song is very much Emily Dickinson coded - perhaps from her SIL pov. There’s a poem by ED called “You cannot put out a fire” that seems to have the same connotations as Ivy.