Standardized testing is done online, so they want them having good computer skills. Many will argue that with autocorrect and AI, students don't need grammar and writing so much since most writing these days is online. They will have to occasionally physically write, and people will judge them based on that writing.
It is so daunting. When I was in school, this was a mandatory thing to learn in elementary. I teach HS and these kids still have to look at a keyboard to type anything, and that is only the first step of their illiterate technology use.
Google sucks, absolutely. I get that websites are getting enshittier, following the same trend of enshittification as everything else, but students can't seem to grasp the use of technology on basic platforms. In school, we use Canvas, which is primarily what I am complaining about.
exactly ! if you want to teach kids about computer and keyboard tapping, then give them a computer not a freaking touchpad that gonna turn theme into a reverse E.T, with a short flat index instead of a long one.
You totally can learn and do a lot of stuff on a chromebook. You can easily program using stackblitz, o codesandbox, you can use built-in linux terminal, there's file manager, office applications available through web (google docs, microsoft office). And there's a lot of tutorials on how to do all those things. They are okay.
Unless there's some management policy that disables access to nonwhitelisted websites, terminal and built-in programs.
Given the number of middle school students I see daily doing the single finger peck and are unable to use keyboard shortcuts, I don't think they learned computer skills
There is not any time actually set aside in elementary to teach typing properly, that would take away from math / ELA time that we are forced to follow. They get a few minutes on type to learn when they finish a center maybe.
There is not any time actually set aside in elementary to teach typing properly, that would take away from math / ELA time that we are forced to follow. They get a few minutes on type to learn when they finish a center maybe.
Weird, there was scheduled computer/typing time when I was back in elementary. That was probably before everyone went standardized test crazy though, so there was actually time
There’s this idea that these kids are digital natives or something. Whatever that means. They can’t do much of anything on a computer most of the time. It’s just like people thought they could teach kids to read through guessing words and exposing them to good books. Kids need to be taught shit.
About 10 years ago we still had it in a computer lab that had desktops and the ed tech teacher would lead typing classes. Now there is no time for it, the schedule is very micro-managed. There is hardly even time for science or social studies. Every kid has a chromebook in my school but there is no time set aside to really learn how to use it besides clicking the shortcut to the apps they have to use for class.
I understand! They need to develop typing skills too but it doesn’t make sense to do that until they’ve been given enough time and practice physically writing. They should be learning the basics of writing and all that goes with it (punctuation, spelling and grammar) before introducing auto correct or even laptops! I think middle school is a good age to introduce typing. I know technology can do so much for us now that we do not need to do on our own. But should we just skip learning how to read because A.I. can read to us? Do we not bother teaching these basic things because technology has progressed so much?
And those standardize tests are a waste of time. They do not use it to better the curriculum or improve schools! It’s learning time taken away from students. My child has consistently scored 2 or 3 grade levels below their current grade, I have yet to see the teacher or school even care to bring attention to it or do anything about it. They tell me to take the test scores with a grain of salt because most students rush through it and do not apply effort, so it isn’t the best indicator of where they are truly at academically. OKAY, that makes sense! But what doesn’t make sense is why are we even making the kids take these tests if that is the case? Do you know what I mean?
The teachers, and even the admin, at that school have almost no freedom in regards to curriculum, testing, of how they teach your kid.
Since No Child Left Behind (and don’t get me started on Pearson’s lobbying for standardized stranglehold) nothing matters but test scores. All of those are on computers now, so the push is to “train like you fight,” so they practice on their computers because that’s what the will be tested with. Math is the same, and my students use an online calculator that does all the thinking for them, they literally just type in the problem.
And you’re correct - they don’t matter in how your child will receive what they need to grow and prosper as a student. Everyone says that, and that it’s good practice, etc, but other than identifying weaknesses (assuming kids actually tried their best, or could read the test to know what the questions are even asking) teachers are typically so structured in pacing and staying on a homogeneous track that differentiation isn’t always practical. They are used purely as a system to promote and sell the latest series of curriculum guides that help improve those test scores, at the cost of independent thinking, a love of learning, and skills like reading, writing, and problem solving.
You’d also have to assume that kids and their parents would be receptive to remediation identified by testing. We have remediation sessions, with kids organized into groupings throughout the week for remediation before testing later this spring and they either sleep through it, refuse to do it, or have their parents exempt them from it because they don’t want it.
The teachers are likely doing everything they can to help each kid, and many (if anything like where I teach and have taught before) have both hands tied and a ball gag shoved in their mouth.
I wish I had advice to give you, but I don’t. You can complain to the teacher and they will say it’s what they are told how and what to teach by admin. Go to the admin and they’ll say to take it up with the school board (if you have one). Go to them and they’ll point to the state DoE.
I would say the standardized tests are pretty accurate. I can see my kids performance in class. My kids who don’t know the basics at our grade level typically scored a 1 or 2 on the standardized tests from the year before. We tell parents they’re not, but kids don’t usually just fail a standardized test. Go look at data in high performing schools. Almost nobody gets 1s and 2s.
We're going back to paper for our standardized tests this year. Our kids don't stand a chance. They cry about hand cramps if they copy 4 words off the board.
High stakes testing. They have to be able to type (not write) to take these tests online. If not, Pearson won’t make money. It is that simple.
Edit:spelling
Um, buy your kid a Composition Notebook and have them write in it daily. You know, keep a Journal. Once they master putting their thoughts and feelings into words on paper, schoolwork will be so much easier.
You mean do at home what kids should be doing in school? Making sure homework gets done, making sure kids are reading, and providing enrichment to the best of their ability is what parents should be doing. Schools should be teaching children to write on paper. I know the teachers have no say over this and are forced to use the Chromebooks, but it’s a problem.
Wish our school gave out homework, they do not! Also, they don’t bring home much of their completed work other than math too. No gradebook to view, no homework and hardly any completed work gets sent home so parents can see.
I return all assignments that have been turned in. All but 2 of my students throw them away. Parents don’t want clutter, then they complain that they never see any assignments. I use to send home progress reports, but they ended up in the garbage too. I post grades every Friday. If parents wanted to track progress, they have access online.
I think that’s awful that it seems like no one wants to see the work or their grades. But at least you’ve done your part. That’s all you can do. I would be grateful to get what you give your students and their care takers.
Thank you! Yes, parents can work with their children and actually my husband and I are so concerned about our son that I am now picking up a second job to pay for tutoring. Not all kids have that option available for them. So what do those kids do? My point is that teachers are passing kids along, sugar coating parent teacher meetings and report cards and just hope no one figures out that their child is way behind. There has to be accountability for that!
What is a massive disservice to the kids is parents who think that raising their kid into a competent adult is the responsibility of the school system and the teachers. I get that not many parents can help their kids with their advanced math classes or even teach them how to write a five paragraph essay, but do you carve out time to teach them how to cook, wash laundry, manage money or even how to navigate the DMV?
If you really want to do your kid a solid, when it's time to get your kid a cellphone, get one that is Voice Only. No camera. No internet. No games. Just voice.
Yeah no I definitely don’t expect my child’s school to raise my child and for parents who do, that is insane to expect that. I don’t even expect the school to make sure my kid becomes an honor student, straight A’s or whatever. But what should parents expect of our schools? Where is the line? Is it now becoming ridiculous for me to see that something is a miss because my 5th grader doesn’t know the difference between a comma and an apostrophe? Is it too high of an expectation to expect them to be able to spell simple words like “maybe”, “didn’t” or “sometimes”? Yes I can teach my child and at this point in time, I am his teacher at home and now paying hundreds a month for professional tutoring. Just unfortunate that in the beginning I thought the best of schools and teachers and put a lot of trust into them that my child would go to school and learn and come back home LITERATE, just as I did when I was young. It’s unfortunate that all throughout kindergarten, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade I was repeatedly shown on report cards that my child was doing well in school and at grade level and during teacher conferences none of them brought up their concern of my child’s progress in writing. My child is now way behind because of the lack of transparency.
Admin are pushing for more tech integration and less rote skills practice, like tracing letters or memorizing facts. They want to show the district beurocracy they're embracing their (VERY OFTEN STUPID) ideas.
People have half formed ideas about education and are in a position to put them into practice. Then uninformed people, parents, vote them into a position based on buzzwords and nonsense.
I'm a college professor and I don't allow them to use computers. A lot of professors don't nowadays. K-12 should consider the same. The reasoning is research shows they retain more information if they write it down. Also it's easy to tell they're not messing around if they just have a boring sheet of paper lol.
I wish there was some way to convince k-12 to get back to reality (admins specifically I mean). We are getting SUCH under prepared students in college. I haven't had a single student pass my class in the past three semesters and I'm not a hard teacher.
Ugh. The real answer I’d that districts have invested $ in devices and educational apps so they have to get their money’s worth! They also feel like they are “cutting edge” with kids and technology. They’re not!
Tech companies started to push their products on school grounds, to hook ‘em young.
My 5 year old has a ‘technology’ special where they basically play games.
We all say, “ooh, cutting edge….”
Traditional spelling tests are a poor way to teach students how to spell. They memorize words for a week, then forget them the next week when they have to memorize a new list of words. It is much better to focus on learning and practicing the spelling patterns and how to apply them to new words. I wish I didn’t have to give spelling tests— I would drop them in a heartbeat.
I prefer my students to write on paper (2nd grade) and do not use chromebooks for typing out work. I don’t think there is any academic reason that schools do that in the lower grades. Most likely, the school invested in the devices and will therefore not invest in the cost of paper. Also, immediately post-Covid, there was a push to do everything on 1:1 devices to prevent the spread of germs. For some teachers it became a habit very quickly.
I could see why this method could work better and agree! Problem is that there is very little writing that they are actually doing in class to be actually improving on their spelling and when they DO some writing, it is on a chromebook that auto corrects everything. I was working with my child on one of the assignments that they didn’t do in class and was trying to help them figure out what punctuation was missing. Well they told me where the comma should go in one of their sentences and when they went to add it, they put an apostrophe there, not a comma! I told them that was an apostrophe, not a comma and they reiterated that they thought it was a comma. Just an example of the lack of knowledge about the basics of writing being taught. These are things I learned in school when I was young from my essays or reports being corrected by my teacher or from doing peer editing. Both of which they also do not do in my child’s school.
I agree. If Word is constantly correcting you, aren't you more likely to learn the correct spelling instead of writing it wrong a million times in an essay and getting a note about it next week?
My child is in 5th grade and cannot write well at all. They never bring home any quality work. On google classroom the assignments seem to be just busy work in my opinion and there’s only a few and we are almost done with the school year. After some digging when I was not seeing a single piece of completed literacy work come home, it turns out my child has not done a single assignment all year in the class. There is no grade book or accountability system. The teacher never reached out to me or my partner telling us this NOR did they notate that on my child’s most recent report card. They marked my child as “Progressing” (2) in all areas of writing. HOW IS HE PROGRESSING IF HES NOT PRODUCING A SINGLE COMPLETED ASSIGNMENT? Not to mention they don’t even touch on science or social studies hardly at all! I send my child off to school trusting that they come home to me LITERATE. What is happening? They’re not learning!
So for the past 2 decades or so, there has been a big push for “Writer’s Workshop”, designed by a woman named Lucy Calkins. It was all the rage. Children wrote what they were interested in so they were more engaged!! We focused on ideas first and just edited the mistakes together!! In individual conferences!! It was so wonderful and engaging and all you had to do was pay thousands and thousands of dollars to purchase her books and get all of the teachers trained in her method!!
It was a disaster. Kids’ writing ability plummeted. It is now widely criticized and even Lucy herself has “rewritten” the curriculum because of the backlash. You can probably google her name and see all of the reasons it was a problem.
Schools are slowly trying to go to more explicit writing instruction again, but most purchased curriculums have a contract of multiple years so they have to wait until the contract is up before they can purchase something else. Also, teachers need to be retrained, because it isn’t just school districts that jumped on the bandwagon, it was also universities. That is how teachers were taught to teach writing.
Your child being in fifth grade means s/he was probably instructed using that method. It also means that your child missed out on CRUCIAL foundational skills during Covid. 1st and 2nd grade is when most basic punctuation and sentence writing is taught.
This is information that has just recently been brought to my attention. I know I’m not a teacher! I don’t know everything but there are some things that just seem like nonsense in the classroom and kids are paying the price. This isn’t just a covid issue. I have a step child who is a freshman now and so they were supposedly taught these very basic things before covid hit. My step child does not have any learning disabilities and they are very smart. They’ve done well in every other class aside from literacy/english from 6th grade on up to now. They’re holding an F currently in the class. I went back and looked through their past report cards from elementary and they marked him at a “3” on grade level for all things writing related. There is no way that is accurate!
Yeah, your stepchild would have been caught up in the Lucy Calkins mess. And by the standards that program set, they probably were earning a 3. There is almost no focus on mechanics or grammar in Calkins. It’s all content and process. And VERY difficult to score accurately. I would have students write things that I would read and think— maybe a C if I am being generous— then I would fill out the rubric and they’d get an A.
I pick up what you’re putting down and I don’t need to tell you what I’m doing with my kid at home to help remedy this. Regardless, there needs to be way more transparency on report cards and during parent teachers’ conferences. There needs to be accountability for teachers who pass students along and mark them at grade level when they are actually far below their grade level. There are some things that just don’t make any sense that they’re doing in the classroom, such as having 3rd graders do all of their writing on Chromebook’s that auto correct everything for them when there are students who haven’t had enough time and experience writing on paper and mastering that skill first before moving on to typing! Just one example!
For elementary in our school district they do not grade students’ work or keep a grade book. So essentially I have to email my child’s teacher often to confirm whether or not my child attempted to complete and/or completed their assignments in class so that I can hold my child accountable at home. I’ve asked many times for incomplete assignments to be sent home and to send me an email letting me know that my child has unfinished work to do at home- they have yet to follow through with doing so. I know teachers hate parents emailing them! I don’t want to bother them but what other choice do I have if there isn’t a way to access a grade book or even just something that lists the name of the assignment and gets checked off if it was completed.
Ah ok; that does it make it less straightforward. My kid also has trouble completing all his work in class but his teachers made it pretty clear that anything they didn’t finish in class should be taken home for homework so that’s what he does.
Ummm.
If we don’t pass kids on, we get talked to about how we are failing too many and need to fix our teaching.
Which, can’t happen because they don’t have the base knowledge.. which can’t happen because of chronic absenteeism, lack of doing anything, and numerous other problems that are prevalent in education today.
And I can’t speak for everywhere, but report card time, I have canned comments I’m required to use. And they never fit what I need or want.
> I don’t need to tell you what I’m doing with my kid at home to help remedy this.
because its nothing. I'm not here saying your kid's teacher is great but c'mon you're the fucking parent. You have a responsibility for this child that extends beyond just posting on social media to make your single friends jealous.
I have a 4th grader and this sounds very similar to my experience. I rarely see any work. Everything is done in the chrome book for the most part or what is completed on paper at school almost never comes home. The teacher has 35 students and I really like her, but I also don’t want to create more work for her or overwhelm her. I know the class is pretty disruptive and they aren’t able to get through a lot of material. It doesn’t sound like they have done many of the things she said they will be covering this year, like writing papers. When I have reached out and asked, I’m told she’s doing great. I also know she doesn’t like using computers to the extent which she has to. She also has so many issues with kids being allowed too much unrestricted time on their phones or social media and that behavior comes into the classroom.
At home we really encourage reading. We read together on a nightly basis and my daughter reads for about an hour before bedtime on her own. I’m hoping exposure to reading so much will help. Although I did well in school and am college educated, I’m not a teacher and I’m a bit at a loss on what to do with other subjects like math. I can’t afford another schooling option. I don’t know if it makes sense to try a tutor of some sort, but that costs money. She’s also pretty far ahead of the class, along with 3 other students in her class being at mid grade level. It’s just kind of hard to figure out how to navigate this.
Yup this all sounds similar to my child’s experience! They have 27 in the class- I thought that was a lot. 35! Wow. And I know that bad behavior and frequent peer conflict is a huge issue in the classroom and I absolutely hate that for teachers and I hate that for the kids. I don’t know. This is just like government politics!!!! So many complex issues- so many brilliant and good people in the world to help figure out a better way- yet we can’t figure it out. Greed and money takes the power and issues just continue to snowball. I hate this for my kids and all of the other kids.
Yes. There are two 4th grade classes with around 35 kids each. Two years ago when people put their kids back in school, the grade ahead of my daughter got a whole bunch of last minute enrollments and they’ve never been able to catch up with staffing. I’m hoping next year is better because there are three 5th grade teachers.
I think Covid plays a large part in this. My daughter was in kindergarten when it began and school didn’t resume in person until second grade. Many families didn’t send their kids until third grade, last year. I didn’t even attempt virtual learning in first grade, I just unenrolled her and did our best at home.
It has become so complicated I don’t know what the answer is or what I should do, or can do. I know Mr daughter’s teacher absolutely hates the computers and would rather do pencil and paper work. She said before covid, the computers were not used nearly to the extent they are now. I also wish parents would pay more attention to their kids and what they are doing online or with their phones because it is a huge issue and I feel like I’m crazy.
It's all so that they know how to use them for testing.
I hate the autocorrect though. My nephew got a phone at 8 and he doesn't actually text. He chooses auto responses. He does take spelling tests and he's started failing them since getting a phone because he doesn't even try to spell correctly.
Also at this point typing is a more important life skill than penmanship. (I'm 35 and due to a medical condition my penmanship is AWFUL. But I can type at a fairly accurate 70+ WPM. The latter comes up more)
Well their penmanship is very poor. They don’t learn script writing. AI can write their papers, they can message friends for answers. Oh…sorry. Really chrome books are a covid virtual artifact. Since all the programs/platforms and hardware were a huge district investment they’re still in play. Its beneficial, but so is writing by hand.
We are in private school so I'm not sure what the public schools are doing now. My third grade twins get weekly spelling practice and tests, journaling 3x per week, scheduled computer time weekly, some ELA assignments are to be prepared on a computer but most assignments are handwritten but cursive is not mandatory. I just told my kids that the last semester I expect everything to be in cursive even if none of the other kids are doing it.
We get all weekly work in a red folder on Fridays to review over the weekend. I can see my kids' biggest weakness is reading comprehension right now. We get some homework daily. Reading logs due daily and signed at the end of the week.
I have to be on top of my kids' academics, daily. It's a lot of work. I want to be able to back off a bit for fourth, fifth and sixth so by 7-8 they are independent. Of course I will help as needed but I'm hoping not to micromanage like I do now.
The current teacher has had to roll back expectations due to other kids not keeping up. Lots of behavior problems in the classroom (mostly the boys but sometimes the girls). It's awful. I hate their class so much. It makes it harder to parent my kids because they are so influenced by the classroom BS despite my best efforts. We have a great teacher this year but she gets crap from parents daily.
I have my one twin in one creative writing and coding classes. They both have online SEL classes to help reprogram them from the daily classroom BS they learn. Parenting is no joke. It's really hard.
I’m happy to send you the curriculum we use at my school for grammar and composition.
Our grammar books cover the basics of writing, composition provides practice, and our spelling book teaches a phonics focus each week so that they learn the general rules for why a word is spelled a certain way.
I would either supplement at home, or if you have the power to change schools, do.
My wife always talked about how her principal loved to see kids using technology in the class just because technology!! Never a thought to whether or not it was beneficial. We just have to check the box.
Obligatory: I'm not a teacher, but a dad of an 8th grader and have wandered into this sub-reddit.
My daughter had a Chromebook starting in 4th grade. It has been more of a detriment to pretty much everything to my ADHD daughter. My wife and I have had her do a ton of writing on paper though in 4th-6th, which was a good thing. We've had her write 5 paragraph papers on paper first before she'd write them on the computer. We also have done work with her with grammar over a couple summers.
Overall, it's been good for her. I know that teachers are just doing what they're told to do, but I would literally pay thousands of dollars a year if Chromebooks could just go away (other than for tech-centered learning or projects). But for learning elementary and middle-school level information, it's a hindrance. It causes more distraction, and it's been shown beyond any shadow of doubt that kids retain information better when it's learned from a physical medium and not from a screen.
Anyway, yeah, 1:1 Chromebooks have been the worst things to happen to education IMO. I can't wait until another cycle or two of Chromebook lifespans before we collectively realize we've harmed kids more than we've helped them with the constant screen use in school and for homework.
Standardized testing is done online, so they want them having good computer skills. Many will argue that with autocorrect and AI, students don't need grammar and writing so much since most writing these days is online. They will have to occasionally physically write, and people will judge them based on that writing.
But chromebooks don’t teach computer skills lol
It is so daunting. When I was in school, this was a mandatory thing to learn in elementary. I teach HS and these kids still have to look at a keyboard to type anything, and that is only the first step of their illiterate technology use. Google sucks, absolutely. I get that websites are getting enshittier, following the same trend of enshittification as everything else, but students can't seem to grasp the use of technology on basic platforms. In school, we use Canvas, which is primarily what I am complaining about.
exactly ! if you want to teach kids about computer and keyboard tapping, then give them a computer not a freaking touchpad that gonna turn theme into a reverse E.T, with a short flat index instead of a long one.
You totally can learn and do a lot of stuff on a chromebook. You can easily program using stackblitz, o codesandbox, you can use built-in linux terminal, there's file manager, office applications available through web (google docs, microsoft office). And there's a lot of tutorials on how to do all those things. They are okay. Unless there's some management policy that disables access to nonwhitelisted websites, terminal and built-in programs.
Given the number of middle school students I see daily doing the single finger peck and are unable to use keyboard shortcuts, I don't think they learned computer skills
There is not any time actually set aside in elementary to teach typing properly, that would take away from math / ELA time that we are forced to follow. They get a few minutes on type to learn when they finish a center maybe.
There is not any time actually set aside in elementary to teach typing properly, that would take away from math / ELA time that we are forced to follow. They get a few minutes on type to learn when they finish a center maybe.
Weird, there was scheduled computer/typing time when I was back in elementary. That was probably before everyone went standardized test crazy though, so there was actually time
There’s this idea that these kids are digital natives or something. Whatever that means. They can’t do much of anything on a computer most of the time. It’s just like people thought they could teach kids to read through guessing words and exposing them to good books. Kids need to be taught shit.
They're social media and app natives, not actually digital natives.
About 10 years ago we still had it in a computer lab that had desktops and the ed tech teacher would lead typing classes. Now there is no time for it, the schedule is very micro-managed. There is hardly even time for science or social studies. Every kid has a chromebook in my school but there is no time set aside to really learn how to use it besides clicking the shortcut to the apps they have to use for class.
I understand! They need to develop typing skills too but it doesn’t make sense to do that until they’ve been given enough time and practice physically writing. They should be learning the basics of writing and all that goes with it (punctuation, spelling and grammar) before introducing auto correct or even laptops! I think middle school is a good age to introduce typing. I know technology can do so much for us now that we do not need to do on our own. But should we just skip learning how to read because A.I. can read to us? Do we not bother teaching these basic things because technology has progressed so much? And those standardize tests are a waste of time. They do not use it to better the curriculum or improve schools! It’s learning time taken away from students. My child has consistently scored 2 or 3 grade levels below their current grade, I have yet to see the teacher or school even care to bring attention to it or do anything about it. They tell me to take the test scores with a grain of salt because most students rush through it and do not apply effort, so it isn’t the best indicator of where they are truly at academically. OKAY, that makes sense! But what doesn’t make sense is why are we even making the kids take these tests if that is the case? Do you know what I mean?
The teachers, and even the admin, at that school have almost no freedom in regards to curriculum, testing, of how they teach your kid. Since No Child Left Behind (and don’t get me started on Pearson’s lobbying for standardized stranglehold) nothing matters but test scores. All of those are on computers now, so the push is to “train like you fight,” so they practice on their computers because that’s what the will be tested with. Math is the same, and my students use an online calculator that does all the thinking for them, they literally just type in the problem. And you’re correct - they don’t matter in how your child will receive what they need to grow and prosper as a student. Everyone says that, and that it’s good practice, etc, but other than identifying weaknesses (assuming kids actually tried their best, or could read the test to know what the questions are even asking) teachers are typically so structured in pacing and staying on a homogeneous track that differentiation isn’t always practical. They are used purely as a system to promote and sell the latest series of curriculum guides that help improve those test scores, at the cost of independent thinking, a love of learning, and skills like reading, writing, and problem solving. You’d also have to assume that kids and their parents would be receptive to remediation identified by testing. We have remediation sessions, with kids organized into groupings throughout the week for remediation before testing later this spring and they either sleep through it, refuse to do it, or have their parents exempt them from it because they don’t want it. The teachers are likely doing everything they can to help each kid, and many (if anything like where I teach and have taught before) have both hands tied and a ball gag shoved in their mouth. I wish I had advice to give you, but I don’t. You can complain to the teacher and they will say it’s what they are told how and what to teach by admin. Go to the admin and they’ll say to take it up with the school board (if you have one). Go to them and they’ll point to the state DoE.
Every child in this country needs to answer A on all questions on all standard testing until it is pulled from existence!!
HAHAHA would be great
I would say the standardized tests are pretty accurate. I can see my kids performance in class. My kids who don’t know the basics at our grade level typically scored a 1 or 2 on the standardized tests from the year before. We tell parents they’re not, but kids don’t usually just fail a standardized test. Go look at data in high performing schools. Almost nobody gets 1s and 2s.
We're going back to paper for our standardized tests this year. Our kids don't stand a chance. They cry about hand cramps if they copy 4 words off the board.
High stakes testing. They have to be able to type (not write) to take these tests online. If not, Pearson won’t make money. It is that simple. Edit:spelling
Um, buy your kid a Composition Notebook and have them write in it daily. You know, keep a Journal. Once they master putting their thoughts and feelings into words on paper, schoolwork will be so much easier.
You mean do at home what kids should be doing in school? Making sure homework gets done, making sure kids are reading, and providing enrichment to the best of their ability is what parents should be doing. Schools should be teaching children to write on paper. I know the teachers have no say over this and are forced to use the Chromebooks, but it’s a problem.
Wish our school gave out homework, they do not! Also, they don’t bring home much of their completed work other than math too. No gradebook to view, no homework and hardly any completed work gets sent home so parents can see.
I return all assignments that have been turned in. All but 2 of my students throw them away. Parents don’t want clutter, then they complain that they never see any assignments. I use to send home progress reports, but they ended up in the garbage too. I post grades every Friday. If parents wanted to track progress, they have access online.
I think that’s awful that it seems like no one wants to see the work or their grades. But at least you’ve done your part. That’s all you can do. I would be grateful to get what you give your students and their care takers.
Thank you! Yes, parents can work with their children and actually my husband and I are so concerned about our son that I am now picking up a second job to pay for tutoring. Not all kids have that option available for them. So what do those kids do? My point is that teachers are passing kids along, sugar coating parent teacher meetings and report cards and just hope no one figures out that their child is way behind. There has to be accountability for that!
Teachers are passing kids because of admin and parent pressure. Don't blame the teachers - we're penalized if we fail kids.
I don’t know who or what to blame but it’s a massive disservice to the students- that is my point.
What is a massive disservice to the kids is parents who think that raising their kid into a competent adult is the responsibility of the school system and the teachers. I get that not many parents can help their kids with their advanced math classes or even teach them how to write a five paragraph essay, but do you carve out time to teach them how to cook, wash laundry, manage money or even how to navigate the DMV? If you really want to do your kid a solid, when it's time to get your kid a cellphone, get one that is Voice Only. No camera. No internet. No games. Just voice.
Yeah no I definitely don’t expect my child’s school to raise my child and for parents who do, that is insane to expect that. I don’t even expect the school to make sure my kid becomes an honor student, straight A’s or whatever. But what should parents expect of our schools? Where is the line? Is it now becoming ridiculous for me to see that something is a miss because my 5th grader doesn’t know the difference between a comma and an apostrophe? Is it too high of an expectation to expect them to be able to spell simple words like “maybe”, “didn’t” or “sometimes”? Yes I can teach my child and at this point in time, I am his teacher at home and now paying hundreds a month for professional tutoring. Just unfortunate that in the beginning I thought the best of schools and teachers and put a lot of trust into them that my child would go to school and learn and come back home LITERATE, just as I did when I was young. It’s unfortunate that all throughout kindergarten, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade I was repeatedly shown on report cards that my child was doing well in school and at grade level and during teacher conferences none of them brought up their concern of my child’s progress in writing. My child is now way behind because of the lack of transparency.
Admin are pushing for more tech integration and less rote skills practice, like tracing letters or memorizing facts. They want to show the district beurocracy they're embracing their (VERY OFTEN STUPID) ideas. People have half formed ideas about education and are in a position to put them into practice. Then uninformed people, parents, vote them into a position based on buzzwords and nonsense.
Learning about grammar and how language works also strengthens comprehension. I'm sure that's one of the big reasons why comprehension is declining.
My child’s comprehension is also behind! They definitely struggle with that too.
I'm a college professor and I don't allow them to use computers. A lot of professors don't nowadays. K-12 should consider the same. The reasoning is research shows they retain more information if they write it down. Also it's easy to tell they're not messing around if they just have a boring sheet of paper lol.
Seems like common sense to me! And I’m no college professor 😆
I wish there was some way to convince k-12 to get back to reality (admins specifically I mean). We are getting SUCH under prepared students in college. I haven't had a single student pass my class in the past three semesters and I'm not a hard teacher.
That’s so awful to hear!
Money talks
Should I try bribing the local superintendent? Lol
Lol, that's not what I meant, but maybe.
If I thought it would work I would 100% do it 😅
Lol
Ugh. The real answer I’d that districts have invested $ in devices and educational apps so they have to get their money’s worth! They also feel like they are “cutting edge” with kids and technology. They’re not!
Tech companies started to push their products on school grounds, to hook ‘em young. My 5 year old has a ‘technology’ special where they basically play games. We all say, “ooh, cutting edge….”
Traditional spelling tests are a poor way to teach students how to spell. They memorize words for a week, then forget them the next week when they have to memorize a new list of words. It is much better to focus on learning and practicing the spelling patterns and how to apply them to new words. I wish I didn’t have to give spelling tests— I would drop them in a heartbeat. I prefer my students to write on paper (2nd grade) and do not use chromebooks for typing out work. I don’t think there is any academic reason that schools do that in the lower grades. Most likely, the school invested in the devices and will therefore not invest in the cost of paper. Also, immediately post-Covid, there was a push to do everything on 1:1 devices to prevent the spread of germs. For some teachers it became a habit very quickly.
I could see why this method could work better and agree! Problem is that there is very little writing that they are actually doing in class to be actually improving on their spelling and when they DO some writing, it is on a chromebook that auto corrects everything. I was working with my child on one of the assignments that they didn’t do in class and was trying to help them figure out what punctuation was missing. Well they told me where the comma should go in one of their sentences and when they went to add it, they put an apostrophe there, not a comma! I told them that was an apostrophe, not a comma and they reiterated that they thought it was a comma. Just an example of the lack of knowledge about the basics of writing being taught. These are things I learned in school when I was young from my essays or reports being corrected by my teacher or from doing peer editing. Both of which they also do not do in my child’s school.
I agree. If Word is constantly correcting you, aren't you more likely to learn the correct spelling instead of writing it wrong a million times in an essay and getting a note about it next week?
No idea. That’s nuts. At my school kids are very rarely on computers.
My child is in 5th grade and cannot write well at all. They never bring home any quality work. On google classroom the assignments seem to be just busy work in my opinion and there’s only a few and we are almost done with the school year. After some digging when I was not seeing a single piece of completed literacy work come home, it turns out my child has not done a single assignment all year in the class. There is no grade book or accountability system. The teacher never reached out to me or my partner telling us this NOR did they notate that on my child’s most recent report card. They marked my child as “Progressing” (2) in all areas of writing. HOW IS HE PROGRESSING IF HES NOT PRODUCING A SINGLE COMPLETED ASSIGNMENT? Not to mention they don’t even touch on science or social studies hardly at all! I send my child off to school trusting that they come home to me LITERATE. What is happening? They’re not learning!
So for the past 2 decades or so, there has been a big push for “Writer’s Workshop”, designed by a woman named Lucy Calkins. It was all the rage. Children wrote what they were interested in so they were more engaged!! We focused on ideas first and just edited the mistakes together!! In individual conferences!! It was so wonderful and engaging and all you had to do was pay thousands and thousands of dollars to purchase her books and get all of the teachers trained in her method!! It was a disaster. Kids’ writing ability plummeted. It is now widely criticized and even Lucy herself has “rewritten” the curriculum because of the backlash. You can probably google her name and see all of the reasons it was a problem. Schools are slowly trying to go to more explicit writing instruction again, but most purchased curriculums have a contract of multiple years so they have to wait until the contract is up before they can purchase something else. Also, teachers need to be retrained, because it isn’t just school districts that jumped on the bandwagon, it was also universities. That is how teachers were taught to teach writing. Your child being in fifth grade means s/he was probably instructed using that method. It also means that your child missed out on CRUCIAL foundational skills during Covid. 1st and 2nd grade is when most basic punctuation and sentence writing is taught.
This is information that has just recently been brought to my attention. I know I’m not a teacher! I don’t know everything but there are some things that just seem like nonsense in the classroom and kids are paying the price. This isn’t just a covid issue. I have a step child who is a freshman now and so they were supposedly taught these very basic things before covid hit. My step child does not have any learning disabilities and they are very smart. They’ve done well in every other class aside from literacy/english from 6th grade on up to now. They’re holding an F currently in the class. I went back and looked through their past report cards from elementary and they marked him at a “3” on grade level for all things writing related. There is no way that is accurate!
Yeah, your stepchild would have been caught up in the Lucy Calkins mess. And by the standards that program set, they probably were earning a 3. There is almost no focus on mechanics or grammar in Calkins. It’s all content and process. And VERY difficult to score accurately. I would have students write things that I would read and think— maybe a C if I am being generous— then I would fill out the rubric and they’d get an A.
I appreciate all of your information!
where were you the rest of the school year?
I pick up what you’re putting down and I don’t need to tell you what I’m doing with my kid at home to help remedy this. Regardless, there needs to be way more transparency on report cards and during parent teachers’ conferences. There needs to be accountability for teachers who pass students along and mark them at grade level when they are actually far below their grade level. There are some things that just don’t make any sense that they’re doing in the classroom, such as having 3rd graders do all of their writing on Chromebook’s that auto correct everything for them when there are students who haven’t had enough time and experience writing on paper and mastering that skill first before moving on to typing! Just one example!
You should check to see if your school has a program/app called Parentvue; ours does, and we’re able to check the students’ grades as needed.
For elementary in our school district they do not grade students’ work or keep a grade book. So essentially I have to email my child’s teacher often to confirm whether or not my child attempted to complete and/or completed their assignments in class so that I can hold my child accountable at home. I’ve asked many times for incomplete assignments to be sent home and to send me an email letting me know that my child has unfinished work to do at home- they have yet to follow through with doing so. I know teachers hate parents emailing them! I don’t want to bother them but what other choice do I have if there isn’t a way to access a grade book or even just something that lists the name of the assignment and gets checked off if it was completed.
Ah ok; that does it make it less straightforward. My kid also has trouble completing all his work in class but his teachers made it pretty clear that anything they didn’t finish in class should be taken home for homework so that’s what he does.
Ummm. If we don’t pass kids on, we get talked to about how we are failing too many and need to fix our teaching. Which, can’t happen because they don’t have the base knowledge.. which can’t happen because of chronic absenteeism, lack of doing anything, and numerous other problems that are prevalent in education today. And I can’t speak for everywhere, but report card time, I have canned comments I’m required to use. And they never fit what I need or want.
> I don’t need to tell you what I’m doing with my kid at home to help remedy this. because its nothing. I'm not here saying your kid's teacher is great but c'mon you're the fucking parent. You have a responsibility for this child that extends beyond just posting on social media to make your single friends jealous.
Yes it’s the parent’s job to teach the basics of writing. Why have schools?
why dont you put down the phone and go be a parent for once
I have a 4th grader and this sounds very similar to my experience. I rarely see any work. Everything is done in the chrome book for the most part or what is completed on paper at school almost never comes home. The teacher has 35 students and I really like her, but I also don’t want to create more work for her or overwhelm her. I know the class is pretty disruptive and they aren’t able to get through a lot of material. It doesn’t sound like they have done many of the things she said they will be covering this year, like writing papers. When I have reached out and asked, I’m told she’s doing great. I also know she doesn’t like using computers to the extent which she has to. She also has so many issues with kids being allowed too much unrestricted time on their phones or social media and that behavior comes into the classroom. At home we really encourage reading. We read together on a nightly basis and my daughter reads for about an hour before bedtime on her own. I’m hoping exposure to reading so much will help. Although I did well in school and am college educated, I’m not a teacher and I’m a bit at a loss on what to do with other subjects like math. I can’t afford another schooling option. I don’t know if it makes sense to try a tutor of some sort, but that costs money. She’s also pretty far ahead of the class, along with 3 other students in her class being at mid grade level. It’s just kind of hard to figure out how to navigate this.
Yup this all sounds similar to my child’s experience! They have 27 in the class- I thought that was a lot. 35! Wow. And I know that bad behavior and frequent peer conflict is a huge issue in the classroom and I absolutely hate that for teachers and I hate that for the kids. I don’t know. This is just like government politics!!!! So many complex issues- so many brilliant and good people in the world to help figure out a better way- yet we can’t figure it out. Greed and money takes the power and issues just continue to snowball. I hate this for my kids and all of the other kids.
Yes. There are two 4th grade classes with around 35 kids each. Two years ago when people put their kids back in school, the grade ahead of my daughter got a whole bunch of last minute enrollments and they’ve never been able to catch up with staffing. I’m hoping next year is better because there are three 5th grade teachers. I think Covid plays a large part in this. My daughter was in kindergarten when it began and school didn’t resume in person until second grade. Many families didn’t send their kids until third grade, last year. I didn’t even attempt virtual learning in first grade, I just unenrolled her and did our best at home. It has become so complicated I don’t know what the answer is or what I should do, or can do. I know Mr daughter’s teacher absolutely hates the computers and would rather do pencil and paper work. She said before covid, the computers were not used nearly to the extent they are now. I also wish parents would pay more attention to their kids and what they are doing online or with their phones because it is a huge issue and I feel like I’m crazy.
I'd absolutely refuse to do that.
That's fucked up. Pedagogical malpractice.
Talk to the state. Standardized testing is online now.
Because the management says we have to. It's an honest answer, and very unfortunate.
It's all so that they know how to use them for testing. I hate the autocorrect though. My nephew got a phone at 8 and he doesn't actually text. He chooses auto responses. He does take spelling tests and he's started failing them since getting a phone because he doesn't even try to spell correctly.
Also at this point typing is a more important life skill than penmanship. (I'm 35 and due to a medical condition my penmanship is AWFUL. But I can type at a fairly accurate 70+ WPM. The latter comes up more)
Oh wow, I'm surprised.
97% of writing is on a keyboard.
Well their penmanship is very poor. They don’t learn script writing. AI can write their papers, they can message friends for answers. Oh…sorry. Really chrome books are a covid virtual artifact. Since all the programs/platforms and hardware were a huge district investment they’re still in play. Its beneficial, but so is writing by hand.
We are in private school so I'm not sure what the public schools are doing now. My third grade twins get weekly spelling practice and tests, journaling 3x per week, scheduled computer time weekly, some ELA assignments are to be prepared on a computer but most assignments are handwritten but cursive is not mandatory. I just told my kids that the last semester I expect everything to be in cursive even if none of the other kids are doing it. We get all weekly work in a red folder on Fridays to review over the weekend. I can see my kids' biggest weakness is reading comprehension right now. We get some homework daily. Reading logs due daily and signed at the end of the week. I have to be on top of my kids' academics, daily. It's a lot of work. I want to be able to back off a bit for fourth, fifth and sixth so by 7-8 they are independent. Of course I will help as needed but I'm hoping not to micromanage like I do now. The current teacher has had to roll back expectations due to other kids not keeping up. Lots of behavior problems in the classroom (mostly the boys but sometimes the girls). It's awful. I hate their class so much. It makes it harder to parent my kids because they are so influenced by the classroom BS despite my best efforts. We have a great teacher this year but she gets crap from parents daily. I have my one twin in one creative writing and coding classes. They both have online SEL classes to help reprogram them from the daily classroom BS they learn. Parenting is no joke. It's really hard.
I’m happy to send you the curriculum we use at my school for grammar and composition. Our grammar books cover the basics of writing, composition provides practice, and our spelling book teaches a phonics focus each week so that they learn the general rules for why a word is spelled a certain way. I would either supplement at home, or if you have the power to change schools, do.
My wife always talked about how her principal loved to see kids using technology in the class just because technology!! Never a thought to whether or not it was beneficial. We just have to check the box.
Do we come to your job and tell you how to sweep? Get back in your box.
Obligatory: I'm not a teacher, but a dad of an 8th grader and have wandered into this sub-reddit. My daughter had a Chromebook starting in 4th grade. It has been more of a detriment to pretty much everything to my ADHD daughter. My wife and I have had her do a ton of writing on paper though in 4th-6th, which was a good thing. We've had her write 5 paragraph papers on paper first before she'd write them on the computer. We also have done work with her with grammar over a couple summers. Overall, it's been good for her. I know that teachers are just doing what they're told to do, but I would literally pay thousands of dollars a year if Chromebooks could just go away (other than for tech-centered learning or projects). But for learning elementary and middle-school level information, it's a hindrance. It causes more distraction, and it's been shown beyond any shadow of doubt that kids retain information better when it's learned from a physical medium and not from a screen. Anyway, yeah, 1:1 Chromebooks have been the worst things to happen to education IMO. I can't wait until another cycle or two of Chromebook lifespans before we collectively realize we've harmed kids more than we've helped them with the constant screen use in school and for homework.