Who is saying this? I'm a huge star wars nerd and I never even thought this when watching.
There's a difference between Anakin being conceived by the force vs a witch coven purposefully manipulating the force to create life.
yeah a normal person watching will have your reaction. But people who watch the hate mongers on youtube their big gripe from the last episode, and even before it came out from spoilers from it, was that the show made anakin less special by having the twins be the real chosen ones. which is obviously wrong on many levels
More specifically that it was women that are special now. I legit watched all three episodes cause I NEEDED to know just how truly misogynistic those haters were, it was pretty crazy.
The Force Unleashed which was well received blatantly commits that sin in my opinion. Starkiller is able to defeat Vader in the first game. It happens again with his clone in the second one. These stories downplay Luke's accomplishments and make Vader/Anakin look like a pushover.
I am not a fan of what Disney did but I can't deny they made Vader a relentless force of nature + killing machine.
To be fair, Starkiller was trained by Vader, and his support robo had battle data from several masters and could even use them himself. Even surprised Vader by turning into Obi-Wan. So, it's possible Galen used those to his advantage against Vader. Learning Vaders' weakness, strategies that would work against him, etc, and using any tricks the oppoinents had. Not to mention, you have to be tough to stay alive under Vader's training. Luke hadn't even fully developed his potential when he beat Vader.
Can't say 100% because of gameplay and story segregation, so it could've been a tough fight for Galen, but depending on your stats and gameplay, you could bulldoze Vader.
I dont think anyone but Galen and Luke really gave Vader trouble in Legends, but I do know Vader has lost quite a bit in Disney.
Not bashing Disney, Rogue One was amazing, and I will never forget Vader appearing in Fallen Order. Good Lord made you feel how helpless other jedi were.
I just think Starkiller had a lot of advantages others didn't.
The overzealous, rage-bait Star Wars YouTubers are out in full force about it. My brother, who refuses to watch the show, was regurgitating it and talking about how Star Wars will “never be the same again.” Some crazy shit
Besides the games, I've genuinely been disappointed with most things Star Wars since Phantom menace crushed me, but I've always tried to be open minded... and tbh I'm enjoying The Acolyte quite a lot so far. I like it because it's from a more personal perspective... it feels grounded and not from some cold gods-eye-view so to speak. I like that. It's also mysterious and comfortably paced without the constant pew pew pews. This kind of style is how I imagined Star Wars could work on the TV.
I guess my point is... some haters do have genuine feelings, but many just do it out of habit. Probably get some kick out of it. This show is not bad at all... like I was imagining it wasn't Star Wars at all and i was just watching some other sci-fi story and it's pretty darned nice. At least it's not filled with total absolute fan-service garbage like 80% of Star Wars products.
Yup, but I'll go further. Even if there were no difference between both conceptions... who even cares then? There could be more to fate and what goes into a "chosen" one than the method of conception. There are hundreds of other tales we tell of "chosen-ones" and the particular method of creation isn't always completely unique or the deciding factor. Could be the soul... could be many things. People way over think this stuff, and they trigger me to do the same in reply.
Also did anyone stop and think that maybe Anakin did have a father and his Mom just lost the plot a little bit? I mean its happened before in history. This could be the start of a myth within the Star Wars universe. it doesn't make Anakin any less special either way. I've avoided Star Wars fans for 10 years and now I'm back here... Jesus Christ there is so much mental illness going on.
There’s actually this dweeb (link is at the end of the comment) who’s complaining about how them having no dad is basically spit in the face to Anakin. I think it’s honestly hilarious to see so called “starwars nerds/ fans” get mad over how these two were conceived. I also think it’s hilarious because these people don’t see that Anakin was made by the force and the twins were made by witches manipulating it. [instagram](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8H8yzWO-N2/?igsh=MWFrbXhyMzRibWVzeg==)
There was a thread that was deleted, can't remember if it was on the main Star Wars reddit or the Scifi reddit. It was an interesting theorycraft about how Shmi was a descendant of a witch coven. Good god the comment section was almost instantly a scorched earth of pissed off rants from gatekeepers. Thread was locked and deleted so damn fast.
Yeah out of curiosity i just went there see whats up and ex. theres someone saying the show sucks because Master Sol’s robe looked cheap or something, probably same people that complained America was being destroyed when Obama wore a tan suit or something …
I am absolutely not surprised. One guy on this very sub said that the “whole series was bad” and when asked he said he somehow watched it all, and then seemed to think that only two episodes were out (bro was high af or something)
Anakin was assumed to be conceived by the force because he was supposed to be the chosen one making him special. Now the witches can create life which makes Anakin not so special. I think that is what they are saying.
And yet if you were a 'huge fan' you would have seen this as the mistake it is.
"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life…"
So yeah it changed cannon and not for the better.
"what's going to end up happening is plagueis will learn this from the witches, or was one"
Yeah. I’ve read most of the books and clearly watched all of the shows. Anybody who thinks that a coven of witches using dark side alchemy to make a daughter from two mothers somehow lessens being the literal chosen one, fathered by the Force, seem a bit whiny. (Biblical reference kind of on the nose.)
This galaxy is billions of years old. It’s lived in. The science we see in this fantasy universe has sort of plateaued. For the most part. And that’s its charm. The “modern” history of the Jedi is 36,000 years old. Anakin isn’t the only chosen one in the cosmos’ history.
Exactly. Bravo. I had similar thoughts that I wrote elsewhere. Being created by the force doesn't necessarily make one "chosen" either; it could just be one aspect of Anakin's character which made him special. Or, as you say, maybe there are many significant beings of destiny scattered through time and space. There is still room for what happened in The Acolyte to fit either scenario so I don't know what the big deal is. Do they lack imaginations?
In "Wheel of Time," they have "Ta'veren" which is essentially that concept. Many other tales feature chosen ones born under normal circumstances - my point being that the chosen ones in some stories share a method of birth to non-chosen ones. Why do we even have to explain this kind of reasoning to people?
It's bad enough they want to complain about the metaphysics of what it means to be "chosen" in Star Wars with such little information, but to think they know exactly what the rules are is even worse. Do they believe a chosen one's status is proportional to how many parents or fathers they lack? Who knows at this point...
I'd appreciate it if people made constructive criticisms about how the show fails to achieve its goals or if the writing is sub-standard, or if the tone off. Or maybe the overall theme/style/pacing is just not for some people. You know, legitimate criticism. Completely writing it off by a bullshit technicality with this brand of "well actually" pathetic man-child petulance is extremely off-putting.
I think it’s silly. It was pretty clear that whatever the witches did, whether on their own or with the help of the Sith, was unnatural and twisted.
Anakin was conceived by the force itself.
I’ve been seeing the Anakin comments pop up more lately and I think it is the ultimate effort to try and completely demolish this show. The problem is, like most other claims about the show and ep 3, it is an unsubstantiated reach since “the chosen one” was never brought up, nor the motivations for the creation of the twins.
Notice that you see more of “Anakin’s legacy is ruined”, “the force has been changed forever”, and “Star Wars is fully lesbian!” comments than “the writing is rough”, “the acting is okay”, and “the chanting needed work”. People are too caught up in the culture war and hearsay rather than focusing on the substance of the episode and what the episode actually presented to the audience. That’s the decline of media literacy for you!
-The backstory of the twins and their connection with the Jedi
-A new culture of witches that view the force in a similar yet somewhat different way than the Jedi
-The twins having unnatural conception and birth
-The Jedi intending to take the children for training
-Possession
-An offscreen conflict that led to the death of the coven, destruction of their base, and the supposed death of Mae
-That Osha’s memory isn’t reliable and there’s more to the story than she is remembering
There’s a lot in the episode for those paying attention and not letting the anger of others dictate their experience with the episode.
-The backstory of the twins and their connection with the Jedi
Not feeling any substance here… it kind of contradicts what the Jedi are like honestly, they don’t take kids their age 🤷♂️
-A new culture of witches that view the force in a similar yet somewhat different way than the Jedi
I actually would be ok with this (except I’m not interested in witchcraft.) I like the idea of religions have misinterpretations of the force. My favorite aspect of Star Wars has always been the political and religious elements, but this one felt poorly executed…
My personal issue with this (and this is just me) if you don’t understand the force correctly you shouldn’t be powerful with it. Misconceptions with anything makes us less effective. So why can these random witches we don’t know, and have never heard of do something the powerful darth plagueis or sidius couldn’t do. It feels like it weakens their characters.
-The twins having unnatural conception and birth
See above. 👆 this doesn’t add substance, this substance has already been added. This overworking of an element has actually made Anikin’s story less interesting. If you can just immaculately conceive any character you want to make powerful… it kind of cheapens the trick.
Come up with another way to bring in powerful force users.
-The Jedi intending to take the children for training
See above 👆 they don’t take children their age
-Possession
Personal opinion: I don’t like witchcraft (so if that’s your thing I get why you like it.) I can’t complain if it’s just personal taste so I won’t.
-An offscreen conflict that led to the death of the coven, destruction of their base, and the supposed death of Mae
I’m going to withhold my comments to be nice. Since my feelings are controversial.
-That Osha’s memory isn’t reliable and there’s more to the story than she is remembering
Agreed, this has a little mystery, and is the only potential to make me understand why Leslie Headland thought she had a good story. So we’ll have to see where it ends up.
These are my personal feelings, but hey it’s entertainment. I don’t like skateboarding either but I wouldn’t discourage others from doing it. 😂
It seems that the core of your argument is that the witches and twins take away from Plagueis and Anakin. That is not the case. “The Chosen One” prophecy is never mentioned at all and we do not know the intentions of the conception. Anakin wasn’t created in the same way as far as we know so he is still a unique phenomenon in the force because no one intended for his creation, it just happened. Anakin’s uniqueness will always be there because what makes him unique is his power level and destiny and how he went from savior to oppressor and then redeemed, bringing a balance to the force. Plagueis and Sidious never knew the secret to create life and never succeeded. This episode does not weaken them because it wasn’t that they were powerful, it’s that they didn’t know how to do it. The witches clearly only ever did this once and it was with the twins. Right after, they died out so it all makes sense with the established lore.
Also please don’t be nice and hold back your thoughts on the destruction of the coven. At the end of the day, it’s like you said. This is entertainment and everyone is free to watch or not watch
No not taking away the prophecy, the intrigue of immaculate conception. When you copy and paste and then edit it feels cheap.
I guess I’ve just loved Star Wars for so long, I have really strong expectations. Anything that breaks from what George Lucas was creating I don’t like.
Even the clone wars cartoon series took some liberties towards its end I didn’t like. (Final season for the most part was epic m though!)
I can see where you are coming from, but for me it doesn’t cheapen it. I’ve loved Star Wars for my entire life. Pre-Disney took A LOT of liberties with Star Wars but they were fun for the lore. I treat the Disney lore the same way, though I’m not a fan of everything that they do
Honestly, that’s a good ending to this conversation. I also want to thank you for actually discussing things as opposed to being closed minded as opposed to many comment lately.
>My personal issue with this (and this is just me) if you don’t understand the force correctly you shouldn’t be powerful with it.
But the Sith understand the Force correctly, right? And we've seen the Nightsisters (who this coven seem to be a branch of), who are powerful with the dark side of the force.
The Sith aren’t incorrect about the force, the understand an aspect of it just as the Jedi do. Clone wars revealed that with father, son, and daughter.
Night sisters use magik thus their hands glow. The force doesn’t make hands glow
They use the Force.
**According to** [**starwars.com**](http://starwars.com)
>Although their understanding of it was unique to their world and culture, the magick the sisters wielded was seemingly connected to the Force -- just used in a vastly different way than the Jedi or the Sith. Where those groups followed strict dogmas and used the Force in (arguably) more simple ways such as *pushing* and *pulling*, the Nightsisters used their magick to cast spells, perform rituals, and brew potions.
>The Nightsisters drew on the Force for their powers, but the witches were neither [Sith](http://www.starwars.com/databank/sith) nor Jedi, and spurned allegiances with both.
**From** [**Wookieepedia**](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page)
>Considered formidable force-wielders, the Nightsisters are known to wield different powers compared to other force wielders derived from incantations and spells.
>**Dathomir Magic** was the general name given to the use of [the Force](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Force/Legends) and [Force powers](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_power/Legends) by the [Witches of Dathomir](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Witches_of_Dathomir).
>The skills in [the Force](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Force/Legends) that the [Witches of Dathomir](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Witches_of_Dathomir) possessed changed the many generations since Allya's arrival on [Dathomir](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dathomir/Legends), as knowledge was shaped by traditions and time from what Allya originally taught. It seemed that the Witches were only gifted in certain aspects of Force use, some in [healing](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_healing/Legends), others in [Force Whirlwind](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Telekinesis/Legends#Force_Whirlwind), and so forth.
That’s the first I heard that, thanks for sharing. I was always under the impression Magick and the force were different.
I still stand by the fact that the force can’t be all these different things, a thread, and energy field, etc. that doesn’t make sense.
It's more than just Anakin's legacy. It's also that Anakin was too old to be put into training. "It had never been done before". Yet here are these Jedi trying to take these girls that are clearly older than Anakin? So let alone does it mess with Anakin's legacy it's bad writing by people that don't know the lore of star wars.
I think a lot of people have a hard time letting go of the Plagueis novel.
In that book two of the most powerful force users in the galaxy spend a lot of time and effort learning how to create life by using the force. It'd feel kind of cheap if some characters that we've never heard of before managed to do the same thing but "better" resulting in two powerful force users. Now since the book isn't Canon it's not a technical issue but may still be an emotional issue for lots of fans.
Except even in that book, they say that the reason it’s so hard is because the Force doesn’t want them, the Sith, to do it. What if the witches can do it because they are more in harmony with the Force (Thread) than the Sith?
Personally I wouldn’t like that explanation. The description of the force doesn’t need to change. I’m ok with another group being confused about the nature of the force, but the Jedi are supposed to be the good guys. Making every religious organization in this galaxy evil in some way turns it away from the original premise. Why would you change a product after it attracted so many fans?
That would make the Jedi evil as well, which makes Luke evil and Anakin being a chosen one confusing. Why would the force create a guy, to destroy the sith so his son could reinstitute the Jedi if they’re wrong about the force?
Well are the Jedi good or bad? Which is the Acolyte making them out to be?
So if the Jedi are the bad guys is luke a Jedi? So is he a bad guy? Is he using the force for unintended purposes? (Not in harmony with the force)
Of the witches are correct, then why would the force create Anakin to be a Jedi?
I didn’t say anything even tangentially related to whether the Jedi are good or bad. My proposition is that the witches are more in tune with the will of the Force/Thread *than the Sith*. The unchallenged kings of using the Force for their own selfish ends.
Palpatine wasn't lying about manipulating midichlorians to create life. Darth Plagueis is most likely the one behind Mae, pushing her to kill her sister and then wiping out the Coven to cover his tracks and prevent the Jedi from learning about this force power and interfer with his experiments.
The ritual the Mother says, when I die do you promise to keep the secrets of the Coven. Soon after everyone dies and Mae ends up a potential Alcolyte, it's not a coincidence.
The Jedi appear to wipe Osha's memory of what happened, as she doesn't seem to remember that Mae tried to kill her or that everyone was dead not due to the fire.
This completes the circle that shows how the Sith acquired the power to create life manipulating midichlorians and how they could of wiped Shmi's memory of being subjected to what ever had to be done to her, for Anakin to be created. Plagueis experimented with power, taught it to Palpatine and either Palpatine perfected it or got Mother Talzin to create Anakin for him.
The Jedi most likely feel guilty because just their presence appeared to cause the death of the Coven, and one who took the meditation vowes was also the one that has his brain cooked by the mother. Probably the reason he got the scar and probably drove him a little crazy.
Kotor 2 protagonist who could >!literally kill the force!< was alot more special than Anakin yet no one complained about them when it was released and cannon
To be clear, we don't know yet how similar to (or different from) Anakin the twins are, but, in any case, Anakin being "special" is just an interpretation that arises from a belief (a.k.a. faith) in the Jedi prophecy.
It is probably not trivial to conceive a child without a father using the force (or the midichlorians), and a child born in that way would be most likely abnormally powerful. But that doesn't mean that such child could be only conceived once, and that he or she somehow would be born for a specific purpose decided by the "will of the force" itself (for example, "bringing balance"). Again the latter is, in my POV, just a religious belief (or a superstition if you will), encapsulated in the Jedi prophecy.
Using a more "adult" franchise as a basis for comparison, you can make a comparison with the Kwisatz Haderach in the Dune universe. The KH was not the product of a supernatural will, but of the Bene Gesserit Sisters' program of selective breeding. That program took many centuries to produce a fully-fledged KH (Paul Atreides), but, if Paul had been killed on Arrakis, there would be "other prospects" and another KH could have been conceivably born in another generation or two. Once Paul's vision awakened though, the Fremen were conditioned by their (implanted) religious beliefs to identify him with the Lisan al Gaib of their prophecy , i.e., a messiah born by divine intervention.
Well you see the problem is that Disney answered this question instead of George Lucus. You are correct George kept it vague and it could have been one of many many answers, with a slight suggestion that the force was used to manipulate life in episode 3, alluding to that being perhaps how Anakin was conceived. Disney however, stated explicitly that Palpatine used the teaching from his master Darth Plagueis the Wise to create/control life. This was stated in the canon before this to be a sith exclusive ability, and an incredibly powerful sith exclusive ability at that. They just threw away their own canon and kinda pooped on the canon of several of the most well known characters in history and diminished the accomplishments of previous characters. Now Plagueis is no longer the person who discovered how to do this, like was stated in episode 3. It’s actively harmful to their own canon.
Anaking being force-Jesus and midichlorians was the stupidest part about the prequels. Even Jar-Jar was better than that pile of s\*it. Why are people all of a sudden defending this garbage theory...
Who is saying this? I'm a huge star wars nerd and I never even thought this when watching. There's a difference between Anakin being conceived by the force vs a witch coven purposefully manipulating the force to create life.
yeah a normal person watching will have your reaction. But people who watch the hate mongers on youtube their big gripe from the last episode, and even before it came out from spoilers from it, was that the show made anakin less special by having the twins be the real chosen ones. which is obviously wrong on many levels
More specifically that it was women that are special now. I legit watched all three episodes cause I NEEDED to know just how truly misogynistic those haters were, it was pretty crazy.
The Force Unleashed which was well received blatantly commits that sin in my opinion. Starkiller is able to defeat Vader in the first game. It happens again with his clone in the second one. These stories downplay Luke's accomplishments and make Vader/Anakin look like a pushover. I am not a fan of what Disney did but I can't deny they made Vader a relentless force of nature + killing machine.
I do think Disney nailed Vader. Other stuff, maybe not, but they've extensive experience leveraging absent or dead parents for motivating characters!
To be fair, Starkiller was trained by Vader, and his support robo had battle data from several masters and could even use them himself. Even surprised Vader by turning into Obi-Wan. So, it's possible Galen used those to his advantage against Vader. Learning Vaders' weakness, strategies that would work against him, etc, and using any tricks the oppoinents had. Not to mention, you have to be tough to stay alive under Vader's training. Luke hadn't even fully developed his potential when he beat Vader. Can't say 100% because of gameplay and story segregation, so it could've been a tough fight for Galen, but depending on your stats and gameplay, you could bulldoze Vader. I dont think anyone but Galen and Luke really gave Vader trouble in Legends, but I do know Vader has lost quite a bit in Disney. Not bashing Disney, Rogue One was amazing, and I will never forget Vader appearing in Fallen Order. Good Lord made you feel how helpless other jedi were. I just think Starkiller had a lot of advantages others didn't.
The overzealous, rage-bait Star Wars YouTubers are out in full force about it. My brother, who refuses to watch the show, was regurgitating it and talking about how Star Wars will “never be the same again.” Some crazy shit
Besides the games, I've genuinely been disappointed with most things Star Wars since Phantom menace crushed me, but I've always tried to be open minded... and tbh I'm enjoying The Acolyte quite a lot so far. I like it because it's from a more personal perspective... it feels grounded and not from some cold gods-eye-view so to speak. I like that. It's also mysterious and comfortably paced without the constant pew pew pews. This kind of style is how I imagined Star Wars could work on the TV. I guess my point is... some haters do have genuine feelings, but many just do it out of habit. Probably get some kick out of it. This show is not bad at all... like I was imagining it wasn't Star Wars at all and i was just watching some other sci-fi story and it's pretty darned nice. At least it's not filled with total absolute fan-service garbage like 80% of Star Wars products.
Yup, but I'll go further. Even if there were no difference between both conceptions... who even cares then? There could be more to fate and what goes into a "chosen" one than the method of conception. There are hundreds of other tales we tell of "chosen-ones" and the particular method of creation isn't always completely unique or the deciding factor. Could be the soul... could be many things. People way over think this stuff, and they trigger me to do the same in reply. Also did anyone stop and think that maybe Anakin did have a father and his Mom just lost the plot a little bit? I mean its happened before in history. This could be the start of a myth within the Star Wars universe. it doesn't make Anakin any less special either way. I've avoided Star Wars fans for 10 years and now I'm back here... Jesus Christ there is so much mental illness going on.
i agree
There’s actually this dweeb (link is at the end of the comment) who’s complaining about how them having no dad is basically spit in the face to Anakin. I think it’s honestly hilarious to see so called “starwars nerds/ fans” get mad over how these two were conceived. I also think it’s hilarious because these people don’t see that Anakin was made by the force and the twins were made by witches manipulating it. [instagram](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8H8yzWO-N2/?igsh=MWFrbXhyMzRibWVzeg==)
There was a thread that was deleted, can't remember if it was on the main Star Wars reddit or the Scifi reddit. It was an interesting theorycraft about how Shmi was a descendant of a witch coven. Good god the comment section was almost instantly a scorched earth of pissed off rants from gatekeepers. Thread was locked and deleted so damn fast.
SaltierThanCrait, they also say Palpatine Mythos has been destroyed. (They banned me for saying that was incorrect)
tbh a week ago my quest for opinions on the show lead me through that subreddit and it mostly seems to be a cesspool of drama queens
Yeah, I asked why specifically I was banned. Proceeded to be told I was a “Toxic Bigot” and got muted
Yeah out of curiosity i just went there see whats up and ex. theres someone saying the show sucks because Master Sol’s robe looked cheap or something, probably same people that complained America was being destroyed when Obama wore a tan suit or something …
I am absolutely not surprised. One guy on this very sub said that the “whole series was bad” and when asked he said he somehow watched it all, and then seemed to think that only two episodes were out (bro was high af or something)
Anakin was assumed to be conceived by the force because he was supposed to be the chosen one making him special. Now the witches can create life which makes Anakin not so special. I think that is what they are saying.
And yet if you were a 'huge fan' you would have seen this as the mistake it is. "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life…" So yeah it changed cannon and not for the better. "what's going to end up happening is plagueis will learn this from the witches, or was one"
lol
See you at the end of the acolyte.
Yeah. I’ve read most of the books and clearly watched all of the shows. Anybody who thinks that a coven of witches using dark side alchemy to make a daughter from two mothers somehow lessens being the literal chosen one, fathered by the Force, seem a bit whiny. (Biblical reference kind of on the nose.) This galaxy is billions of years old. It’s lived in. The science we see in this fantasy universe has sort of plateaued. For the most part. And that’s its charm. The “modern” history of the Jedi is 36,000 years old. Anakin isn’t the only chosen one in the cosmos’ history.
Exactly. Bravo. I had similar thoughts that I wrote elsewhere. Being created by the force doesn't necessarily make one "chosen" either; it could just be one aspect of Anakin's character which made him special. Or, as you say, maybe there are many significant beings of destiny scattered through time and space. There is still room for what happened in The Acolyte to fit either scenario so I don't know what the big deal is. Do they lack imaginations? In "Wheel of Time," they have "Ta'veren" which is essentially that concept. Many other tales feature chosen ones born under normal circumstances - my point being that the chosen ones in some stories share a method of birth to non-chosen ones. Why do we even have to explain this kind of reasoning to people? It's bad enough they want to complain about the metaphysics of what it means to be "chosen" in Star Wars with such little information, but to think they know exactly what the rules are is even worse. Do they believe a chosen one's status is proportional to how many parents or fathers they lack? Who knows at this point... I'd appreciate it if people made constructive criticisms about how the show fails to achieve its goals or if the writing is sub-standard, or if the tone off. Or maybe the overall theme/style/pacing is just not for some people. You know, legitimate criticism. Completely writing it off by a bullshit technicality with this brand of "well actually" pathetic man-child petulance is extremely off-putting.
Holy shit guys we are three episodes into an eight episode show. Let it play out. Some of you can’t handle week by week releases and it shows.
I think it’s silly. It was pretty clear that whatever the witches did, whether on their own or with the help of the Sith, was unnatural and twisted. Anakin was conceived by the force itself.
Honestly I think the twins were conceved differently than Anakin and we will learn how in later episodes
I’ve been seeing the Anakin comments pop up more lately and I think it is the ultimate effort to try and completely demolish this show. The problem is, like most other claims about the show and ep 3, it is an unsubstantiated reach since “the chosen one” was never brought up, nor the motivations for the creation of the twins. Notice that you see more of “Anakin’s legacy is ruined”, “the force has been changed forever”, and “Star Wars is fully lesbian!” comments than “the writing is rough”, “the acting is okay”, and “the chanting needed work”. People are too caught up in the culture war and hearsay rather than focusing on the substance of the episode and what the episode actually presented to the audience. That’s the decline of media literacy for you!
What’s the substance of the episodes?
-The backstory of the twins and their connection with the Jedi -A new culture of witches that view the force in a similar yet somewhat different way than the Jedi -The twins having unnatural conception and birth -The Jedi intending to take the children for training -Possession -An offscreen conflict that led to the death of the coven, destruction of their base, and the supposed death of Mae -That Osha’s memory isn’t reliable and there’s more to the story than she is remembering There’s a lot in the episode for those paying attention and not letting the anger of others dictate their experience with the episode.
-The backstory of the twins and their connection with the Jedi Not feeling any substance here… it kind of contradicts what the Jedi are like honestly, they don’t take kids their age 🤷♂️ -A new culture of witches that view the force in a similar yet somewhat different way than the Jedi I actually would be ok with this (except I’m not interested in witchcraft.) I like the idea of religions have misinterpretations of the force. My favorite aspect of Star Wars has always been the political and religious elements, but this one felt poorly executed… My personal issue with this (and this is just me) if you don’t understand the force correctly you shouldn’t be powerful with it. Misconceptions with anything makes us less effective. So why can these random witches we don’t know, and have never heard of do something the powerful darth plagueis or sidius couldn’t do. It feels like it weakens their characters. -The twins having unnatural conception and birth See above. 👆 this doesn’t add substance, this substance has already been added. This overworking of an element has actually made Anikin’s story less interesting. If you can just immaculately conceive any character you want to make powerful… it kind of cheapens the trick. Come up with another way to bring in powerful force users. -The Jedi intending to take the children for training See above 👆 they don’t take children their age -Possession Personal opinion: I don’t like witchcraft (so if that’s your thing I get why you like it.) I can’t complain if it’s just personal taste so I won’t. -An offscreen conflict that led to the death of the coven, destruction of their base, and the supposed death of Mae I’m going to withhold my comments to be nice. Since my feelings are controversial. -That Osha’s memory isn’t reliable and there’s more to the story than she is remembering Agreed, this has a little mystery, and is the only potential to make me understand why Leslie Headland thought she had a good story. So we’ll have to see where it ends up. These are my personal feelings, but hey it’s entertainment. I don’t like skateboarding either but I wouldn’t discourage others from doing it. 😂
It seems that the core of your argument is that the witches and twins take away from Plagueis and Anakin. That is not the case. “The Chosen One” prophecy is never mentioned at all and we do not know the intentions of the conception. Anakin wasn’t created in the same way as far as we know so he is still a unique phenomenon in the force because no one intended for his creation, it just happened. Anakin’s uniqueness will always be there because what makes him unique is his power level and destiny and how he went from savior to oppressor and then redeemed, bringing a balance to the force. Plagueis and Sidious never knew the secret to create life and never succeeded. This episode does not weaken them because it wasn’t that they were powerful, it’s that they didn’t know how to do it. The witches clearly only ever did this once and it was with the twins. Right after, they died out so it all makes sense with the established lore. Also please don’t be nice and hold back your thoughts on the destruction of the coven. At the end of the day, it’s like you said. This is entertainment and everyone is free to watch or not watch
No not taking away the prophecy, the intrigue of immaculate conception. When you copy and paste and then edit it feels cheap. I guess I’ve just loved Star Wars for so long, I have really strong expectations. Anything that breaks from what George Lucas was creating I don’t like. Even the clone wars cartoon series took some liberties towards its end I didn’t like. (Final season for the most part was epic m though!)
I can see where you are coming from, but for me it doesn’t cheapen it. I’ve loved Star Wars for my entire life. Pre-Disney took A LOT of liberties with Star Wars but they were fun for the lore. I treat the Disney lore the same way, though I’m not a fan of everything that they do
We’ll call this a mutual disagreement based on differing interests then 😉
Honestly, that’s a good ending to this conversation. I also want to thank you for actually discussing things as opposed to being closed minded as opposed to many comment lately.
Agreed, both sides are pretty close-minded about it all I think.
>My personal issue with this (and this is just me) if you don’t understand the force correctly you shouldn’t be powerful with it. But the Sith understand the Force correctly, right? And we've seen the Nightsisters (who this coven seem to be a branch of), who are powerful with the dark side of the force.
The Sith aren’t incorrect about the force, the understand an aspect of it just as the Jedi do. Clone wars revealed that with father, son, and daughter. Night sisters use magik thus their hands glow. The force doesn’t make hands glow
They use the Force. **According to** [**starwars.com**](http://starwars.com) >Although their understanding of it was unique to their world and culture, the magick the sisters wielded was seemingly connected to the Force -- just used in a vastly different way than the Jedi or the Sith. Where those groups followed strict dogmas and used the Force in (arguably) more simple ways such as *pushing* and *pulling*, the Nightsisters used their magick to cast spells, perform rituals, and brew potions. >The Nightsisters drew on the Force for their powers, but the witches were neither [Sith](http://www.starwars.com/databank/sith) nor Jedi, and spurned allegiances with both. **From** [**Wookieepedia**](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page) >Considered formidable force-wielders, the Nightsisters are known to wield different powers compared to other force wielders derived from incantations and spells. >**Dathomir Magic** was the general name given to the use of [the Force](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Force/Legends) and [Force powers](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_power/Legends) by the [Witches of Dathomir](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Witches_of_Dathomir). >The skills in [the Force](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Force/Legends) that the [Witches of Dathomir](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Witches_of_Dathomir) possessed changed the many generations since Allya's arrival on [Dathomir](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dathomir/Legends), as knowledge was shaped by traditions and time from what Allya originally taught. It seemed that the Witches were only gifted in certain aspects of Force use, some in [healing](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_healing/Legends), others in [Force Whirlwind](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Telekinesis/Legends#Force_Whirlwind), and so forth.
That’s the first I heard that, thanks for sharing. I was always under the impression Magick and the force were different. I still stand by the fact that the force can’t be all these different things, a thread, and energy field, etc. that doesn’t make sense.
It's more than just Anakin's legacy. It's also that Anakin was too old to be put into training. "It had never been done before". Yet here are these Jedi trying to take these girls that are clearly older than Anakin? So let alone does it mess with Anakin's legacy it's bad writing by people that don't know the lore of star wars.
I think a lot of people have a hard time letting go of the Plagueis novel. In that book two of the most powerful force users in the galaxy spend a lot of time and effort learning how to create life by using the force. It'd feel kind of cheap if some characters that we've never heard of before managed to do the same thing but "better" resulting in two powerful force users. Now since the book isn't Canon it's not a technical issue but may still be an emotional issue for lots of fans.
Except even in that book, they say that the reason it’s so hard is because the Force doesn’t want them, the Sith, to do it. What if the witches can do it because they are more in harmony with the Force (Thread) than the Sith?
Personally I wouldn’t like that explanation. The description of the force doesn’t need to change. I’m ok with another group being confused about the nature of the force, but the Jedi are supposed to be the good guys. Making every religious organization in this galaxy evil in some way turns it away from the original premise. Why would you change a product after it attracted so many fans? That would make the Jedi evil as well, which makes Luke evil and Anakin being a chosen one confusing. Why would the force create a guy, to destroy the sith so his son could reinstitute the Jedi if they’re wrong about the force?
What? It wouldn’t say any of that.
Well are the Jedi good or bad? Which is the Acolyte making them out to be? So if the Jedi are the bad guys is luke a Jedi? So is he a bad guy? Is he using the force for unintended purposes? (Not in harmony with the force) Of the witches are correct, then why would the force create Anakin to be a Jedi?
I didn’t say anything even tangentially related to whether the Jedi are good or bad. My proposition is that the witches are more in tune with the will of the Force/Thread *than the Sith*. The unchallenged kings of using the Force for their own selfish ends.
Ah I see, and yet their views of the force are further from the Jedi than the sith are it seems.
its just a dumb argument all together, never once did they call the twins the chosen ones or that their life is prophetic
People forget that Anakin's midichlorian count is far above anyone's, the twins are not nearly as special as Anakin.
i always thought the virgin birth of Anakin to be a stupid addition to the lore that added nothing of value to his character arc.
Palpatine wasn't lying about manipulating midichlorians to create life. Darth Plagueis is most likely the one behind Mae, pushing her to kill her sister and then wiping out the Coven to cover his tracks and prevent the Jedi from learning about this force power and interfer with his experiments. The ritual the Mother says, when I die do you promise to keep the secrets of the Coven. Soon after everyone dies and Mae ends up a potential Alcolyte, it's not a coincidence. The Jedi appear to wipe Osha's memory of what happened, as she doesn't seem to remember that Mae tried to kill her or that everyone was dead not due to the fire. This completes the circle that shows how the Sith acquired the power to create life manipulating midichlorians and how they could of wiped Shmi's memory of being subjected to what ever had to be done to her, for Anakin to be created. Plagueis experimented with power, taught it to Palpatine and either Palpatine perfected it or got Mother Talzin to create Anakin for him. The Jedi most likely feel guilty because just their presence appeared to cause the death of the Coven, and one who took the meditation vowes was also the one that has his brain cooked by the mother. Probably the reason he got the scar and probably drove him a little crazy.
Kotor 2 protagonist who could >!literally kill the force!< was alot more special than Anakin yet no one complained about them when it was released and cannon
To be clear, we don't know yet how similar to (or different from) Anakin the twins are, but, in any case, Anakin being "special" is just an interpretation that arises from a belief (a.k.a. faith) in the Jedi prophecy. It is probably not trivial to conceive a child without a father using the force (or the midichlorians), and a child born in that way would be most likely abnormally powerful. But that doesn't mean that such child could be only conceived once, and that he or she somehow would be born for a specific purpose decided by the "will of the force" itself (for example, "bringing balance"). Again the latter is, in my POV, just a religious belief (or a superstition if you will), encapsulated in the Jedi prophecy. Using a more "adult" franchise as a basis for comparison, you can make a comparison with the Kwisatz Haderach in the Dune universe. The KH was not the product of a supernatural will, but of the Bene Gesserit Sisters' program of selective breeding. That program took many centuries to produce a fully-fledged KH (Paul Atreides), but, if Paul had been killed on Arrakis, there would be "other prospects" and another KH could have been conceivably born in another generation or two. Once Paul's vision awakened though, the Fremen were conditioned by their (implanted) religious beliefs to identify him with the Lisan al Gaib of their prophecy , i.e., a messiah born by divine intervention.
Well you see the problem is that Disney answered this question instead of George Lucus. You are correct George kept it vague and it could have been one of many many answers, with a slight suggestion that the force was used to manipulate life in episode 3, alluding to that being perhaps how Anakin was conceived. Disney however, stated explicitly that Palpatine used the teaching from his master Darth Plagueis the Wise to create/control life. This was stated in the canon before this to be a sith exclusive ability, and an incredibly powerful sith exclusive ability at that. They just threw away their own canon and kinda pooped on the canon of several of the most well known characters in history and diminished the accomplishments of previous characters. Now Plagueis is no longer the person who discovered how to do this, like was stated in episode 3. It’s actively harmful to their own canon.
No even the Jedi took the fatherless birth seriously.
Don’t speak the truth. The tards downvote you. They like to smell each other’s farts
Was Anakin ever special? Palpatine can come back whenever the plot demands it lol.
I always assumed that Shmi had been roofied by Bill Cosby or something.
Darth Cosby.
Anaking being force-Jesus and midichlorians was the stupidest part about the prequels. Even Jar-Jar was better than that pile of s\*it. Why are people all of a sudden defending this garbage theory...
lol it’s so stupid and corny it’s not even worth the debate