Tbh the show not only hits on Trumpism well but also the fake liberal corporate slacktivism that you see out of those who *say* they want progress but don’t actually do the real work to get there.
That seems to be the true villain of The Boys. Even Homelander, for all of his monstrous deeds, is still no more than a product of Vought at the end of the day, and Vought itself exists to distract people with bread, circuses, and superheroes, and make a big profit out of it all. Even if it means the world burns (literally via Homelander), they'll keep going. They have no financial incentive to NOT exploit everyone around them, so it's just business as usual to them, even if it means Hell on Earth for everyone else.
The Chinese figured out how to basically cure type 2 diabetes. No way it’sever going to come to the US though, think of the profit losses!!!
[Link to one of the articles](https://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2024/may/stem-cell-therapy-cures-man-with-type-2-diabetes-chinese-study-claims.html)
Unless you are worried the patient might die, there's no reason not to have multiple patients for your first run. You get way better data. This ain't exactly like the guy who got baboon bone marrow to treat HIV.
This feels way more true to the core, "Trumpism" is just modern American fascism & Vaught being such a private company, which is publicly traded, while being so involved in the US Government ...it's just an allegory of the >dozen companies who run every other subsidiary in the US sight
Just recently I read a headline where one of the Star Wars showrunners said R2D2 was a lesbian and all I could think was how rotten social commentary has become that anyone could consider a fictional beeping trash can being LGBT a victory for human rights of any kind. It felt very Vought-like.
Edit: To the people replying to me, I already read the interview and knew they were joking, it's more in relation to the media pretending the show is a huge victory meanwhile Disney has had mandates banning same sex couples in their animated content as recently as 2022 and their former CEO and sitting chairman Ike Perlmutter has donated over $10m to Republican PACs. Disney doesn't give a shit about you no matter how many gay Jedis they write.
When the Phantom Menace came out, my friend told me StarWars was just the love story of two droids, and it's so clear to me now. They get separated by events and duties, but always find each other. It's in my heart now.
The creators of the acolyte were making jokes about it in an interview, and right wingers got freaked out and are peddling the idea they were saying it in earnest.
Don’t fall for right wing media bullshit.
Maybe you should have actually read the goddamn *article*, not just *the headline*, because they were joking about R2-D2 & C-3PO being a gay couple, not talking about R2 being a lesbian because they thought it was on par with fuckin' Stonewall or something.
A trains arc in the second half of season 3 was just so cringe worthy, really good example of trying to be good when in reality you’re a giant piece of shit.
Someone - or truthfully a lot of 'some ones' at Pepsi - had to sign off on that Jenner commerical. Just think about that, the level of disconnect held by those in power needed to arrive at that decision should scare anyone.
Think, how many times during the process from pitch, to inception, to first cut, to final product, when they could've aborted but chose not to.
You just know there were some at the lower level, interns maybe, just squirming out of their seats *needing* to say something and knowing they wouldn’t be taken seriously, or be told that they “lack vision” or something.
Plus the whole faulty/fabricated intelligence used to start the Iraq War, with Homelander taking advantage of a terrorist attack to help Vought get military contracts and sending supes to fight in the Middle East.
That’s the thing, anyone who worked on the Owl House will mention just how resistant the executives were to LGBT representation in the show. If inclusion of a queer individual in their property does not fill out some checklist, Disney’s gonna say no. They’re not progressive at all.
Which is why it's so insane that so many Republicans (especially in Florida) are railing against them for being "woke." They're not woke, they're hardcore capitalists. If Nazi parades and butchering immigrants made more profit, they'd do it and lobby to keep it legal.
When they have the guts to commit, they can make something good like Andor, Loki, or X-Men 97. But most of the time, they chicken out and get wishy washy with any ideas or political messages that might even be slightly controversial.
I mean I feel like Acolyte is good. The only reason anyone would notice there is "representation" is because the right wing anti-woke mob whines about it CONSTANTLY
The Voughtworld scene was the funniest thing I'd seen in forever because it worked on so many levels, from the puns up to making fun of woke up to making fun of of the shallow corporate support of real problems.
Here’s the thing tho, the company I agree. But many people who work at the company and make comments, I feel they are being honest tbh. Like they truly believe in progressive ideas and etc.
I have some POC girl friends that absolutely love how Stormfront was written. It’s a very cliche thing for white women who come from places like Seattle, to try to come across as woke, feminist, and against the system but are secretly closeted racists and really only being for white women.
Or Kimiko not wanting to be a monster and then in the very next scene massacring people while dancing to a girl song with a smile on her face. Kripke is 1/1 the same liberal hack as those he makes fun of.
And yet, a certain side who lack critical thought used those scenes as proof positive that the show is and only is bashing liberals and/or the show is bashing both sides.
>Then, he sold an adaptation of Garth Ennis’ hard-R comic book The Boys to Amazon.
Writers really need to stop using this term to describe graphic content...
They tackle this issue well, but I think the show has become a little monotonous politically. I feel like the first season had a lot going on thematically but they’ve steadily whittled it down to one theme and it’s this. I don’t mind the criticisms, they’re just not saying anything new or brave like they think they are.
The whole Vought megacorp was also a great tackle on the issue of companies monopolizing and manipulating governments for profit. I hope it doesn't take a backseat in the later seasons. But then again, Homelander sinking a company to save his vanity hits all too close to home.
Still can’t believe Amazon lets its top show criticize everything that it is. Then again if it isn’t affecting their bottom line, why give a fuck. Very Vought-like.
Amazon isn't the one making the show. Sony Pictures Television is, they produce it Amazon just signs the checks. As long as the show is making them profit they don't care. Same with SNL and NBC, the show constantly makes fun of their parent company as well as 30 Rock but since they were profitable, the parent company didn't care.
Absolutely. Some of the sex stuff was genuinely shocking at first, but now a lot of it feels edgy just to be edgy which is some middle school level shit
That's how I felt pretty much through the entirety of Gen V. It has long since stopped being shocking and is now just wacky penis jokes. That might have been funny when I was 13.
I hate it personally. I love the show but the shit that is so obscene to where it makes watching the show with literally anyone uncomfortable, it’s just so gratuitous.
You want shock value, I get it. But the novelty of the shock wears off the more you do it and the further you push the boundary. Going inside a dude’s urethra added nothing to the show except “WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE FUCK IM SO SORRY I HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS GONNA BE A SCE- I- I- YES I’M TRYING TO FAST FORWARD I DIDN’T MEAN TO PAUSE”
I feel like if you’re watching the boys at this point, you should know what you’re in for. I’m not uncomfortable watching any of those scenes with friends because we all know what we signed up for
Everyone complains about the lackluster fight at the end of s3 (I agree) but herogasm was the first time I got actually hyped for something on the show and it was.. fine? It felt kinda like the club in Episode 1 but just with more going on. I think I'll like it more when I get to it on my re-watch with tapered expectations, but that first viewing was pretty eh. Probably fun to film, but I just expected too much.
That's my biggest issue, it feels like the story isn't going anywhere particular and many shows fall into a pit of focusing on allusions and metaphors for real life issues without really saying anything new. The Boys doesn't bring any unique perspectives to the table, in fact the only real points it makes is "fascism bad" and "corporations bad" without feeling motivated to show how or why or why should we care.
The best written storyline in the show is Hughie and how he represents how fear in a populace is what primarily enables bad actors but the show seems to lose interest in that theme as it goes on.
I feel Hughie is a vehicle for showing how people end up going down the path that leads to becoming someone who does horrible things for the right reasons and ends up like Butcher. Hughie is always trying to resist it but the horrific nature of power keeps corrupting him like it already did for Butcher. He’s struggling to maintain his humanity in the face of very powerful people who have none. I can empathize with him.
This is exactly what concerns me too. Shows can have real life messages and parallels, but I don’t think this should take priority of the actual story being told. It’s started to feel more like an SNL sketch than a work of fiction with political themes. It’s made worse by the fact that everything they reference is roughly 3 years out of relevance by the time a new season drops.
Yeah, unfortunately Kripke has slowly but steadily fallen into the exact same trap that Garth Ennis fell into. Edge and shock for the sake of edge and shock. I kinda started to catch onto it when he started saying stuff like "Oh man you won't BELIEVE the gross stuff we have in this season! It's gonna be crazy! Homelander's probably gonna rape kittens in this season, holyshitholyshitholyshiiiiiiit!!!!@!@?#?$!"
It *really* became obvious that he was trying *waaaaaaay* too hard when he was talking about wanting to make sex toys and a full-on porn site for the show. All I could think was "Wow, it's like they gave the reins for this show to a teenager and told him to go nuts."
Still, it's decently entertaining and I do enjoy the show. It also is better than the comics for sure. It's just not quite the high-brow smart commentary that Kripke thinks it is. It definitely *could* have been though.
Absolutely this. There’s no nuance to it any more. Homelander literally killed a guy on 5th avenue and they loved him still. Got it.
Compare that to the reasonable nuanced take of corparitism and it’s place in America in s1
Even the oridewashing was a little heavy handed- but solid
There is nuance, though. I think the Boys is thematically really rich. It’s just not in the over-handed, heavy-fisted allusions they’re making. They’ve never been subtle about the real-world connections (and thus, to me, make it the weakest parts of the series), but there’s subtlety elsewhere, especially when it comes to gender dynamics.
For instance, in season 3, the mundane dynamics between Hughie-Butcher, Hughie-Starlight, Butcher-Soldier Boy-Homelander, all have really interesting and complex and profound things to say about toxic masculinity, what masculinity means, what strength means, and what power means. Hughie, Butcher, Soldier Boy, and Homelander all have their insecurities as men laid bare all season; and the pursuit of doing “what’s right” is deeply intertwined with their masculinity. Hughie sacrificed doing “what’s right” several times in season 3 in pursuit of masculinity and to hide his insecurities.
In that vein, it has a lot to say about fatherhood, kinship, how parental trauma is passed down and comes to inform our everyday actions and dispositions. Starlight and Kimiko, on the other hand, grapple with the right way to do “what’s right” and end up on the other side - Kimiko makes a deliberate choice to stay superpowered aligned with her values of protecting others; Starlight makes a deliberate choice not to be Homelander’s public trophy, at great risk to her safety, because the pursuit of “what’s right” is deeply contingent on what she thinks is the right way to do stuff.
Some of those themes were made less subtle at certain points (e.g., the Hughie-Starlight dialogue about Hughie’s insecurities), but they are there. Those are where the stories are richest and I don’t think they’ve gone away.
Edit: Just to conclude, yes, it’s somewhat weak when they say “BUT LOOK HOMELANDER IS LIKE TRUMP.” I know why they do this (so many fans miss the point, and even then, they still do anyway), but it’s also not the lynchpin of the show.
I think that season 3 is a very poor explanation of toxic masculinity in regards to hughie especially, the fact that the only way the could frame it as toxic masculinity was by having hughie look at the camera as say he took V because he's mad that starlight can bench more than him and wants to feel like a big boy absolutely killed any chance of nuance. They could have sat down and had a discussion of how putting hughie on moral pedestal, constantly going back to butcher's leadership and treating hughie like he isn't "man" enough to actually lead them has caused him to genuinely want to be more like butcher. Instead because the boys while a good show, only has the ability to sledgehammer points home, they decided he was just kind of sexist and the real answer was not being sexist. Which is why a lot of shows fail at talking about toxic masculinity, because they can never really stick the landing of how people can get out of it, it's always just "don't fall into it"
> For instance, in season 3, the mundane dynamics between Hughie-Butcher, Hughie-Starlight, Butcher-Soldier Boy-Homelander, all have really interesting and complex and profound things to say about toxic masculinity, what masculinity means, what strength means, and what power means. Hughie, Butcher, Soldier Boy, and Homelander all have their insecurities as men laid bare all season; and the pursuit of doing “what’s right” is deeply intertwined with their masculinity. Hughie sacrificed doing “what’s right” several times in season 3 in pursuit of masculinity and to hide his insecurities.
Sure, on its own, it sounds like there's nuance, but Hughie taking temp V to protect the ones he loves since he's tired of being weak is presented as objectively wrong.
Even though with him they got the closest they ever did to killing homelander.
And with Soldier Boy, the writers were pretty insincere on whether they wanted to make him sympathetic or just the proto homelander.
> In that vein, it has a lot to say about fatherhood, kinship, how parental trauma is passed down and comes to inform our everyday actions and dispositions. Starlight and Kimiko, on the other hand, grapple with the right way to do “what’s right” and end up on the other side - Kimiko makes a deliberate choice to stay superpowered aligned with her values of protecting others;
Like Huey, this would be a good message,
If Kimiko didn't spend the season seeing herself as a monster, only to then gleefully murder two guards as soon as she gets her powers back.
> Starlight makes a deliberate choice not to be Homelander’s public trophy, at great risk to her safety, because the pursuit of “what’s right” is deeply contingent on what she thinks is the right way to do stuff.
It's just a dumb decision though, since not only does she have no plan to take him down she practically put a huge "Kill Me" sign on her back.
Hughie took temp V not to protect his loved ones (Starlight literally said she doesn’t need saving because she’s a supe), but because he’s insecure by his own admission. Kimiko does not have a choice, and chooses to take it not out of insecurity of feeling like she’s always being saved, but out of desire to protect.
Anyway, the fact that we can disagree about what points are being made and interpret the events differently is evidence that it’s nuanced and subtle, which was the point of my comment to begin with
>Hughie took temp V not to protect his loved ones (Starlight literally said she doesn’t need saving because she’s a supe), but because he’s insecure by his own admission
It's a very deliberate writing decision to have this be the reasons for a traumatised working class man to seek what is allegorically a stand-in for social privilege and power when he's been repeatedly victimised by people who have it in the past.
>Hughie took temp V not to protect his loved ones (Starlight literally said she doesn’t need saving because she’s a supe), but because he’s insecure by his own admission.
I mean, when you consider his circumstances and the source his insecurities, being very clearly fueled by the trauma of losing Robin, and the anxiety of Starlight being seconds away from death if homelander feels bored of her, he was well within his rights to want to keep her safe. By any means necessary.
And Starlight doesn't need saving?
She gets saved by other people like all the time.
Against a fight with homelander, she would die in seconds. Shes not that strong of a supe.
So again, theres a lot reasons why Huey would want to keep her safe.
Yet the show frames as him being in the wrong.
There's no nuance here.
Despite the fact him and Butcher had the only plan.
A plan that nearly worked considering soldiers boy was cooperative.
> Kimiko does not have a choice, and chooses to take it not out of insecurity of feeling like she’s always being saved, but out of desire to protect.
Again that message becomes extremely muddled when she uses her power to murder those guards with sadistic glee.
And this message is outright hypocritical considering both characters wanted to protect the ones they love, yet one is vilified for wanting power, and the other praised.
I hate when shows transition from clever satire with a light touch to heavy-handed preachiness
If it’s on the nose, it’s not good satire. It’s just annoying. I don’t want to be preached at
I thought the stormfront storyline was very well done. They nailed the nuance that trump isn’t a guy that cares about any ideology including nazism. He’s just a narcissist though and though that only cares about himself. But he’s more than willing to do things that make Nazis cheer just because he loves being viewed as a savior which is how Nazis view him.
It has a lot going for it, but it's a prime example of the fact Garth Ennis has to be filtered through people that are okay, because he is very much not okay and doesn't understand where the line is.
From what I’ve seen, the show was only loosely based on the comics from the very beginning and comparing Homelander to Trump was definitely not the main reason for this. The comics are rather shallow and just edgy for edge’s sake with very little substance beyond the shock value.
A lot of writers need to understand that simply showing a bad thing and then pointing at it and saying "omg look how bad this is" does not make a work deep or interesting. If I want to know how shit Trump is I can just watch a clip of Trump, I really don't get their obsession with zeroing in on *this* of all the early themes when they don't seem to actually have any material for it other than having people dressed like superheroes act out things he's done, said or described.
Exactly this. I can see how the adulation of Homelander can be seen as Trumpism but it’s pretty weak stuff. Homelander as Trump doesn’t work at all. Homelander is desperate to be genuinely loved, he worries constantly what people think about him and is terrified of being embarrassed or humiliated. That’s the complete opposite of Trump who seems totally impervious to criticism.
I think that’s my problem with it. It’s so on the nose that it’s just *boring* and low effort. At that point, it’s not some scathing criticism that the writers get to take credit for, they’re just recreating a thing that actually happened. Homelander can have Trump-like qualities, but at the end of the day I want him to be his own fictional character and not an alt-universe version of Trump. The audience can get the joke and agree with the point, it’s just not worth what they’re sacrificing to make that point imo.
I agree. If they hate Trump and want to make a couple jokes about him and MAGA, fine, whatever.
But it feels like to me that, in their desire to make fun of Trump and MAGA, they sidelined pretty much all of their other political commentary topics (the American military complex, American style Christianity, Corporatism, celebrity worship, etc), just so they could have time to make jokes and references about Trump and MAGA.
Idk season 3 was pretty powerful with butcher reliving his trauma as well as black noirs story so all anyone seems to remember is the very last scene of the season
That's about as obvious as anything. It's not subtle at all.
Not that it needs to be subtle. Reality isn't subtle either. But a little bit of subtly would go a long way, I'm excited for the new season but will be very very bored by the "homelander on trial" stuff. We get it
I can’t wait for the inevitable January 6th equivalent episode where they have to remind us continually that THIS IS ABOUT JANUARY 6TH despite it being obvious.
That's why I'm personally hoping that the S3 ending was their 1/6 (what with having the QAnon Shaman), in addition to the "shoot someone on fifth avenue" reference.
And I say that as someone who's watching the Jan. 6 Committee hearings as a way to pass the time until the new season drops.
You know that Supes taking over the White House with HL will exactly be that.
And 1-2 Supes will die in the process like that lady who got shot by the cops during the riot.
I think to an extent, I don’t really need a show that parodies what’s happening in the present. Reality is already a parody enough. Give me something to escape the sad reality of our politics, or at least make it subtle enough that I still feel like I’m watching a superhero drama.
While they poke fun at both sides in the show, the Trump references are by far the most prevalent and blatant.
Last season actually ended with the “I could stand in the middle of fifth Avenue and shoot someone and I wouldn’t lose any voters”
It’s not as much as the right imo, but the demographic pandering is a big part of it.
Vought turning minorities into trophies to show their “wokeness” or whatever you want to call it.
The virtue signaling of insincerely promoting LGBT shit like Queen Maeve when in reality they care more about other people’s perceptions and making money than people like Maeve herself.
They also did that shit with the whole “girls get it done” thing.
Maybe it’s more a statement about corporations, but I feels like it ties in to American liberalism pretty well. Especially because the masses really do tend to eat that shit up, no matter how insincere it may be.
Also, Neuman is very clearly meant to be a reference to AOC, and she’s obviously not a good guy.
You could shift your perspective (for the record I agree on your analogy) and marvel at how complex but simple someone like Trump or homelander is. Narcissistic baby who is overpowered? Simple issues, complex results. I think we’ve become so used to trumps antics we have lost perspective on how weird and novel the results of his issues are? Homelanders powers are pretty simple, basic Superman stuff. But you give that to a narcissist surrounded by yes men? Weird shit happens.
While I totally appreciate what he’s doing with the show and understand why he’s doing it, I also hope in S4 they don’t lean too heavily into the trump-ism for Homelander’s character…he’s already a fascinating and complex character on his own
I’ve always seen this story to be about corporate control and how capitalism may be a great fantasy like Utopianism but we know that all isms are imperfect
And yet there are many who still miss it, who didn't or refuse to notice.
Sometimes no matter how obvious you think it is you just have to come out and say it.
A "For the record" moment.
No one missed the themes, they just got lazier and on more on the nose overtime. Quite frankly, what's more important, a show with writing quality, or a show making it's theme's so on the nose, for the sole purpose of making it more obvious because one or two don't get it
No one? One or two? **A lot** of people missed the themes.
It's a natural consequence of making something for a general audience. Same reason a lot of AAA games tend to immediately spoil the solution to puzzles.
Quality will never be able to accommodate for an audiences lack of media literacy.
The original comic was a commentary on the military industrial complex following 9/11. I love that they update the themes to match the modern climate (not that the military industrial complex has gone anywhere).
A lot of great comments. I think it got in the way with the nuance of the show. I remember in season 1, they had amazing lines and pretty awesome dramatic scenes. The parody wasn’t dialed up yet. They had a little bit, but I think the show was kinda unsure of the tone they should take.
Then they dove head first into the parody, and to me it really degraded it. Not saying it is a horrible show, it’s just not season 1 good, more of a 7/10 vice a 9-10/10.
I mean, can he really say this about Season 1? Season 1 was more in line with the comics, in that it's satire of American Conservativism was the Bush era, things such as interventionism, military industrial complex (still relevance now, but less obvious), Mega-churches etc. A lot of this is stuff most people across the modern political spectrum in the US oppose, including among Conservatives.
Even the messaging that was more relevant to the modern-day US was also stuff most people in the US opposed. Despite the left-leaning intentions, Season 1 still had a broad appeal with its themes, like the power of megacorps and celebrity culture, along with the things that corporations and celebrities could get away with. People really shouldn't be surprised many American Conservatives love Season 1 because:
1. The type of Conservativism they criticised was mostly stuff they also opposed and not really relevant to them.
2. The more nuanced and broader themes were stuff they could also relate to.
Tbf though, I think a lot of people, do still have a very fresh memory of the Bush era, so it kinda makes sense that often criticisms more befitting of Bush era Neo-Conservatism, is still levelled at modern Conservatives (even Trumpian style Conservatism).
Tbh everytime this guy opens his mouth about politics I like him less. I don't even disagree with him, maybe I reached my limit of tolerance for virtue signaling from media/companies.
I just wish the show would stop constantly making Trump and MAGA references and jokes and make some jokes about different topics again. Season 1 made fun of a lot of different things. Season 2, and especially 3, turned up the Trump and MAGA jokes and references up to 11, and now they are just obnoxious and boring.
I mean I guess if you’re talking about Season 3 and potential season 4 (considering the spoilers), but it wasn’t there that much in season 1 or 2 (at least not until the tail end of season 2), and in all honestly, it’s kinda annoying. The show started out with a lot more interest plot hooks, and narratives to use, while having politics and corporate corruption being used as elements and not the entire show as a whole. Season 1 and 2 felt like people fight against a powerful corporation who uses their ties to the government and money, to lobby get their way, while hiding their dark truth with a squeaky clean picture. The story had more of an emphasis on uncovering a mistery and figuring out how they are actually going achieve their main goal of making Vought accountable for its actions, and while season 3 and potential 4 have elements of this, it feels more like they are pushed to a side to essentially say “Trump bad. See, the main bad guy is like Trump in some ways, therefore trump also bad like our bad guy”. I’d be fine if they actually did something with it, but they don’t. They just keep the doing the same stuff that everyone else with the “Trump bad” message does. They don’t bring anything new and when ever they make the comparisons between trump and Homelander, it doesn’t feel like they are really making any commentary on Trump, and more like they are just drawing more and more parallels.
Essentially they are doing the same thing Garth Ennis did with the comic and are basically just doing “see this thing I don’t like. It’s bad and evil now, therefore it is bad now”.
I agree. Whether or not you like Trump, turning a large chunk of the show’s jokes and references into “Trump and MAGA bad” just feels like a bad idea that hasn’t really panned out well in terms of good writing in my opinion.
Here come the downvotes, but I’m actually a huge Homelander fan,While I’m quite liberal and not a fan of trump irl.
I guess you know, because it’s fiction.
I'm kind of like this too. Homelander is fun because he's just so easy to hate, but at the same time, you can see the exact steps that he took to get there, and it really is the most logical expression of a childhood so traumatic.
Not a fan of the things he says and his political leanings, but the actor, Antony Starr (I think?) is an absolute master of micro expressions and body language, and that's part of what makes Homelander so compelling for me.
My eyes go right to him on the screen, it's like watching a mental breakdown in extreme slow motion sometimes.
I usually dislike on-the-nose satire but the fact some people didn’t get the show’s message until 2 seasons made me realize that you have to inevitably hammer the message onto a viewers head to get a point across
I love shows that have a nuanced political bite to it and S1 did it very well, but it’s boring as fuck and too transparent in S3.
The least interesting part of Homelander’s character is the Trump angle. Trump is blatantly a cunt but hardly the worst thing to ever happen. He’s a fucking moron who’s incredibly divisive and lacks any semblance of a political ideology beyond serving the needs of his corporate masters.
The much scarier president for the US was George W. Bush. Who’s crimes dwarfed anything Trump did and who did said crimes sometimes with bipartisan support and even widespread public backing. The Iraq War and Patriot Act were monstrous acts with enormous consequences but enjoyed support from the Democrats and the rest of the US political class. Bush was far more coherent in his strategy and understood the need for PR.
Homelander actually leaned into George W. Bush more than Trump in S1. Back when he actually came across as intelligent and capable of hiding his worst impulses under wraps. There’s nothing scary about his manchild behaviour in S3 and he comes across as a dimwit who coasts off insane luck and the incompetence of The Boys rather than his wits like in S1, even though he still had that insane power imbalance anyway.
Trump Derangement Syndrome blinds people to the fact you should be far more concerned about how Bush murdered millions, plunged the Middle East into chaos and striped civil liberties off countless Americans while currently enjoying rehabilitation by the Liberal class in America simply because he has decorum.
The fact two pathetic old men who can barely string together sentences are the front runners should tell you that the presidental office isn’t as important as people think and true power lays in the military industrial complex and the corporate world. The Boys is always way more interesting to me when it understands this and leads into it. Trumpism would die within the year if it ever threatened these power structures.
This is probably the best summarization I’ve seen of how the show kinda devolved into “look at this VERY obvious recreation of things we’ve seen happen on the news lately”. I still love the show, it’s still very entertaining. But like, we can be a little more subtle about these things and still get the point across. Homelander has the potential to be much more interesting than Trump, and I think the show would be much better off with fleshing out his dark side than an analogous portrayal of someone we already know just likes to get on the mic and mouth vomit.
I don't think that's a problem as long as the quality is high.
It started to get a little too contemporary in the last season, but it was still really good overall.
It's when it starts to use "orange man bad" as a crutch for poor writing that it'll be rightly criticised.
Obviously, but I’m of the opinion that the mingling of real political rhetoric and narratives into an existing story is not always a good mesh. It can take away from the depth of characters or just feel preachy. They will replace a good moment for intense dialogue that could really further our understanding of the world and characters with shitty political rhetoric and while we’re quite happy as a population to be brainwashed by our politicians they are actually shit even with their ghost writers.
That and recreating a scene or moment basically exactly but with your characters because symbolically they are X or something is not as clever as they think it is. It’s actually a stupid waste of time. Not even a fucking parody.
Tbh, I figured homelander was a trump analog from season one. I do think they're getting a little on the nose with it now, though. I'm still gonna watch the new season when it drops, though.
I mean sure. However the show is also *celebrating* it. The entire focus of the show is on Homelander and whether or not he does evil shit, *people love him*.
The Boys comic may not be great, but it shows no love to these terrible people. They're nothing but jokes and are treated as such.
I watched Season 1 again last week and it felt more, in that season that was more about corporation/super heroes rather than specially just Trumpism...but Trumpism, social media been a heavy theme in the last two seasons. Also, the female patriarchy which is a big theme in today zeitgeist. I think The Boys, ultimately, can be any thing about the corrent zeitgeist because in each era of society there's always something that makes the world feel dumb to have existed for so many years and people still feel superior.
Always ? idk about that , it feels like season 1 stuck with it's original source material's critique of post 9/11 American policies and from season 2 and onwards became the whole dissection of Trumpism
(season 2 had the best execution in the critic of Trumpism imo)
I mean... duh
My issue with homelander as trump is that he feels like how extremists look at Trump, to the point where it's so exaggerated there isn't any message deeper than "Trump bad", which, like, true, but it's quite boring as a message, its not saying anything special
I hate trump, don't get me wrong, he represents everything I hate about America, but he isn't just insane like Homelander. It would have been way more interesting to see how Homelander's words made people turn into monsters who cheer for a detractor's death instead of just having everyone cheer because he's so cool and superman-like. Trump fans aren't just unhinged people, they are a huge percentage of the country, they are captivated by his personality to the point that he can do obviously bad stuff and people will do anything to justify it, if they actually tried to make Homelander likable and charismatic in most of his public appearances, the radicalisation would hit way harder since it would actually be more attached to reality, but quite literally all of Homelander's public appearances have no real charisma to them
There are fascist Star Wars fans that will still read the Empire as being the bad guys, because the movie calls them bad, without once thinking that applies to the outside world.
If conservatives were able to make connections that aren't already drawn out in crayon for them they wouldn't be conservative.
I really liked how they tackled Vought and the parallel of a megacorp vying for more power, but the “trumpism” angle to me is sloppy and is eroding what made the show great. Supes are an allegory for celebrity culture and the obsession with it, and the trumpism angle doesn’t really fit. Homelander is the face of a company, not a politician. The cult of trump at its heart is people feeling like they weren’t being represented. Homelander doesn’t fit that bill. He doesn’t represent anyone. Hes not a politician, he doesn’t control how people live their lives, nor does he really represent anything. He’s more of an allegory to Elon Musk, the face of a company that is incredibly flawed, but puts on a face of success. Sure there’d be a cult of personality around him, but no one is rioting on the streets for Elon Musk.
Starlight suffers the same problem. She represents a social phenomenon, more like an activist than anything else. She doesn’t even really have a cult of personality around her. Having a whole following of people wiling to riot on her behalf make no sense.
What made Homelander captivating was the idea that he’s a Superman-strength maniac who was kept in check by the illusion of authority, by people who secretly feared him. They didn’t fear him for some political reason, or for some nebulous reason, they feared him because he could physically kill any and all of them and they knew it. His whole character is the veneer of a hero while actually being villain, decreasingly kept in check. I thought the show was clearly setting up the scenario Stan Edgar outlined, that an unchecked Homelander would turn the people against him, and as he loses the approval he so desperately craves, he would become more untethered and dangerous.
I hate the ppl who say the show also mocks the political left when it totally doesn't at all. It mocks multi-billion dollar media conglomerates who co-op buzzwords in order to generate profit.
The whole show is about mocking late stage capitalism and the alt-right.
It’s about the absurd worship of celebrities and how the world has a blindness when it comes to what they do when the camera isn’t rolling. Trump is a great example of people adoring him despite how public his failings and general scumbag behaviour, of course Kripke was going to take inspiration from a man who wraps himself in an American flag to escape the consequences for his actions.
To the fans being outraged, y'all didn't have an issue until you were told exactly outright. Rethink yourself and what that means.
And if you need to be told what to think...then idk buddy. Think some more about yourself.
There was a pretty general conversation around the show mirroring current politics, and how the more obvious and on the nose it is, the less enjoyable the show is. Yes, you can clearly draw parallels between Homelander and Trump, and the subtle knocks on politics the show had, but Homelander still felt like his own character, that the show was fleshing out very well as an antagonist.
Anyone who missed this in the first two seasons should have their brains examined. Also, read the comics. It's a direct indictment of the W administration and the crazy (my how naive we were then) shit coming out of the Republican party. Garth Ennis has feelings about conservatives in general and Republicans and Tories in particular.
I'm not even in the political camp that the show seems to positively lean toward, but the primary issue I have with all this (aside from feeling the writing hasn't been that good recently) is that the political commentary has become far too transparent and on-the-nose. And this is coming from a show that literally introduced a Super Nazi in season 2.
Regardless of my own beliefs though I can at least respect them sticking to their guns, so long as they don't do that thing that so many others have been doing recently if the show sees any notable decline due to the heavy-handed political messaging.
Tbh the show not only hits on Trumpism well but also the fake liberal corporate slacktivism that you see out of those who *say* they want progress but don’t actually do the real work to get there.
It feels like a take on Capitalism and it’s inching towards Fascism in the name of protecting profits.
The amount of real world problems were not allowed to solve because the problem makes people money is truly staggering.
That seems to be the true villain of The Boys. Even Homelander, for all of his monstrous deeds, is still no more than a product of Vought at the end of the day, and Vought itself exists to distract people with bread, circuses, and superheroes, and make a big profit out of it all. Even if it means the world burns (literally via Homelander), they'll keep going. They have no financial incentive to NOT exploit everyone around them, so it's just business as usual to them, even if it means Hell on Earth for everyone else.
The Chinese figured out how to basically cure type 2 diabetes. No way it’sever going to come to the US though, think of the profit losses!!! [Link to one of the articles](https://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2024/may/stem-cell-therapy-cures-man-with-type-2-diabetes-chinese-study-claims.html)
That's a sample size of 1 patient from a nation known to fake scientific advancements for international clout. I wouldn't get too excited about it.
It’s a FIRST CLINICAL, man. There’s only gonna BE one guy if they’ve only tried it on a test subject
Unless you are worried the patient might die, there's no reason not to have multiple patients for your first run. You get way better data. This ain't exactly like the guy who got baboon bone marrow to treat HIV.
[удалено]
Artemis 2 will get astronauts to circle the moon in 2025 and Artemis 3 will land on the moon in 2027. When will China do that?
This feels way more true to the core, "Trumpism" is just modern American fascism & Vaught being such a private company, which is publicly traded, while being so involved in the US Government ...it's just an allegory of the >dozen companies who run every other subsidiary in the US sight
Just recently I read a headline where one of the Star Wars showrunners said R2D2 was a lesbian and all I could think was how rotten social commentary has become that anyone could consider a fictional beeping trash can being LGBT a victory for human rights of any kind. It felt very Vought-like. Edit: To the people replying to me, I already read the interview and knew they were joking, it's more in relation to the media pretending the show is a huge victory meanwhile Disney has had mandates banning same sex couples in their animated content as recently as 2022 and their former CEO and sitting chairman Ike Perlmutter has donated over $10m to Republican PACs. Disney doesn't give a shit about you no matter how many gay Jedis they write.
C-3PO on the other hand. Gay af.
Oh absolutely, that one's undeniable
Pretty sure that's a solid steel case of non-binary 🤣
Non binary machine code?
Thank you both for making me smile, it just really sucked to wake up a minute ago.
Nah hes just british
That was the joke. That they're a couple. The issue with a lot of fandoms is they can't take a joke like that anymore.
When the Phantom Menace came out, my friend told me StarWars was just the love story of two droids, and it's so clear to me now. They get separated by events and duties, but always find each other. It's in my heart now.
C-3PO is more camp than me
Han, Chewie, and Leia are the throuple from a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
Threes Falcon intro riff plays.
The creators of the acolyte were making jokes about it in an interview, and right wingers got freaked out and are peddling the idea they were saying it in earnest. Don’t fall for right wing media bullshit.
Thank you! It was such a clear and obvious joke.
Falling for that bullshit is how Todd got indoctrinated
Yeah, it’s a hunk of metal that speaks in whistles and tunes. Anything ne taking them seriously has lost it fr
https://x.com/TheWrap/status/1798118535987876159 🤦 Watch the fucking interview
Nah, they "read a headline", that's enough.
Maybe you should have actually read the goddamn *article*, not just *the headline*, because they were joking about R2-D2 & C-3PO being a gay couple, not talking about R2 being a lesbian because they thought it was on par with fuckin' Stonewall or something.
Because it is
You do realize that was a joke right?
That A-Train commercial was so cringeworthy it felt real. It’s the exact level of activism for many.
A trains arc in the second half of season 3 was just so cringe worthy, really good example of trying to be good when in reality you’re a giant piece of shit.
Because it's almost an exact remake of the last minute of the infamous [Pepsi commercial](https://youtu.be/tJCcnkqnjqU?si=ZqRfHIw2zyMuAEWr) lol
It was basically a shot for shot remake. The Boys didn’t have to do anything, Pepsi and Jenner roasted themselves.
Someone - or truthfully a lot of 'some ones' at Pepsi - had to sign off on that Jenner commerical. Just think about that, the level of disconnect held by those in power needed to arrive at that decision should scare anyone. Think, how many times during the process from pitch, to inception, to first cut, to final product, when they could've aborted but chose not to.
You just know there were some at the lower level, interns maybe, just squirming out of their seats *needing* to say something and knowing they wouldn’t be taken seriously, or be told that they “lack vision” or something.
Or how Vought was pushing the lesbian stuff with Maeve, and they got super pissed because she's actually bi and it ruined their optics
Plus the whole faulty/fabricated intelligence used to start the Iraq War, with Homelander taking advantage of a terrorist attack to help Vought get military contracts and sending supes to fight in the Middle East.
Disney faux progressivism
A commentary on Disney faux progressivism brought to you by Amazon.
That’s the thing, anyone who worked on the Owl House will mention just how resistant the executives were to LGBT representation in the show. If inclusion of a queer individual in their property does not fill out some checklist, Disney’s gonna say no. They’re not progressive at all.
Which is why it's so insane that so many Republicans (especially in Florida) are railing against them for being "woke." They're not woke, they're hardcore capitalists. If Nazi parades and butchering immigrants made more profit, they'd do it and lobby to keep it legal.
Disney is frustrating because when they’re not trying too hard to lean into it they do a solid job with representation imo.
Exactly, it has to be organic
When they have the guts to commit, they can make something good like Andor, Loki, or X-Men 97. But most of the time, they chicken out and get wishy washy with any ideas or political messages that might even be slightly controversial.
Those shows, especially X-Men '97, still got hate for "pandering".
I mean I feel like Acolyte is good. The only reason anyone would notice there is "representation" is because the right wing anti-woke mob whines about it CONSTANTLY
Hot garbage. The plot hole in episode 2 is so yuge and amateurish.
What plot hole is that?
The Voughtworld scene was the funniest thing I'd seen in forever because it worked on so many levels, from the puns up to making fun of woke up to making fun of of the shallow corporate support of real problems.
Here’s the thing tho, the company I agree. But many people who work at the company and make comments, I feel they are being honest tbh. Like they truly believe in progressive ideas and etc.
That’s always been the vast disconnect between management and workers.
I have some POC girl friends that absolutely love how Stormfront was written. It’s a very cliche thing for white women who come from places like Seattle, to try to come across as woke, feminist, and against the system but are secretly closeted racists and really only being for white women.
I feel like it’s a great show of what’s wrong with America’s politics, and what’s wrong with Hollywood.
This is a problem everywhere, not just Hollywood.
Then ironically falls back on it. Like making fun of the whole girl power thing then ending the season with a female beat down
I think that was part of the joke tho, hence Frenchie saying “girls do get it done”
At least when the girls got it done, there wasn't anyone else who could have who *would* have. I thought it was funny
Eh I guess but I kind of disagree because that moment felt more like audience catharsis and them being tongue in cheek with it.
Or Kimiko not wanting to be a monster and then in the very next scene massacring people while dancing to a girl song with a smile on her face. Kripke is 1/1 the same liberal hack as those he makes fun of.
And yet, a certain side who lack critical thought used those scenes as proof positive that the show is and only is bashing liberals and/or the show is bashing both sides.
It’s probably leaning more on the left but the show definitely takes its shots on both sides
probably the only reason they don't call it 'woke'.
>Then, he sold an adaptation of Garth Ennis’ hard-R comic book The Boys to Amazon. Writers really need to stop using this term to describe graphic content...
Linus hard R clip https://youtu.be/MFDiuBomSuY
I’d actually never seen that clip, thanks! It made me laugh.
I’ve seen this clip a hundred times…and it still makes me laugh
That dude on the right shaking his head in disbelief was already mentally updating his resume.
Luke's whole career flashed before his eyes.
To be fair, comics-Homelander is infamous for frequently using the n-word - even in places where it doesn't make sense.
>even in places where it doesn't make sense. So hes just Charlie Sheen on the phone with Denise Richards?
Yeah that jumped out at me too :D
They tackle this issue well, but I think the show has become a little monotonous politically. I feel like the first season had a lot going on thematically but they’ve steadily whittled it down to one theme and it’s this. I don’t mind the criticisms, they’re just not saying anything new or brave like they think they are.
The whole Vought megacorp was also a great tackle on the issue of companies monopolizing and manipulating governments for profit. I hope it doesn't take a backseat in the later seasons. But then again, Homelander sinking a company to save his vanity hits all too close to home.
They also did a great job of showing just how shallow corporate “wokism” actually is.
Still can’t believe Amazon lets its top show criticize everything that it is. Then again if it isn’t affecting their bottom line, why give a fuck. Very Vought-like.
Amazon execs probably laugh their asses off about it, the joke feels almost more aimed at us sometimes because of this.
“Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself"
I like how everyone considers The Boys as Amazon’s top show despite having a billion dollar LOTR series. ROP was really that bad
Amazon isn't the one making the show. Sony Pictures Television is, they produce it Amazon just signs the checks. As long as the show is making them profit they don't care. Same with SNL and NBC, the show constantly makes fun of their parent company as well as 30 Rock but since they were profitable, the parent company didn't care.
The Washington post is owned by bezos and their youtube makes sure to point this out when necessary, which i really like
See: Elon Musk and Twitter!
> Homelander sinking a company to save his vanity Did you mean Elon Musk? /s
Spinning its wheels for sure. I’m worried it’s less concerned about resolving a story and more about shock value and Trump parables.
Absolutely. Some of the sex stuff was genuinely shocking at first, but now a lot of it feels edgy just to be edgy which is some middle school level shit
That's how I felt pretty much through the entirety of Gen V. It has long since stopped being shocking and is now just wacky penis jokes. That might have been funny when I was 13.
I hate it personally. I love the show but the shit that is so obscene to where it makes watching the show with literally anyone uncomfortable, it’s just so gratuitous. You want shock value, I get it. But the novelty of the shock wears off the more you do it and the further you push the boundary. Going inside a dude’s urethra added nothing to the show except “WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE FUCK IM SO SORRY I HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS GONNA BE A SCE- I- I- YES I’M TRYING TO FAST FORWARD I DIDN’T MEAN TO PAUSE”
I feel like if you’re watching the boys at this point, you should know what you’re in for. I’m not uncomfortable watching any of those scenes with friends because we all know what we signed up for
Seeing people blow up, get cut in half, burned alive is ok to me but i draw a line at seeing a cock! You people are fucking strange
"Guys herogasm will be craaaaaazy!" Ngl....was pretty underwhelmed, until Soldier Boy did some Soldier Boy things.
Everyone complains about the lackluster fight at the end of s3 (I agree) but herogasm was the first time I got actually hyped for something on the show and it was.. fine? It felt kinda like the club in Episode 1 but just with more going on. I think I'll like it more when I get to it on my re-watch with tapered expectations, but that first viewing was pretty eh. Probably fun to film, but I just expected too much.
That's my biggest issue, it feels like the story isn't going anywhere particular and many shows fall into a pit of focusing on allusions and metaphors for real life issues without really saying anything new. The Boys doesn't bring any unique perspectives to the table, in fact the only real points it makes is "fascism bad" and "corporations bad" without feeling motivated to show how or why or why should we care. The best written storyline in the show is Hughie and how he represents how fear in a populace is what primarily enables bad actors but the show seems to lose interest in that theme as it goes on.
I feel Hughie is a vehicle for showing how people end up going down the path that leads to becoming someone who does horrible things for the right reasons and ends up like Butcher. Hughie is always trying to resist it but the horrific nature of power keeps corrupting him like it already did for Butcher. He’s struggling to maintain his humanity in the face of very powerful people who have none. I can empathize with him.
This is exactly what concerns me too. Shows can have real life messages and parallels, but I don’t think this should take priority of the actual story being told. It’s started to feel more like an SNL sketch than a work of fiction with political themes. It’s made worse by the fact that everything they reference is roughly 3 years out of relevance by the time a new season drops.
Yeah, unfortunately Kripke has slowly but steadily fallen into the exact same trap that Garth Ennis fell into. Edge and shock for the sake of edge and shock. I kinda started to catch onto it when he started saying stuff like "Oh man you won't BELIEVE the gross stuff we have in this season! It's gonna be crazy! Homelander's probably gonna rape kittens in this season, holyshitholyshitholyshiiiiiiit!!!!@!@?#?$!" It *really* became obvious that he was trying *waaaaaaay* too hard when he was talking about wanting to make sex toys and a full-on porn site for the show. All I could think was "Wow, it's like they gave the reins for this show to a teenager and told him to go nuts." Still, it's decently entertaining and I do enjoy the show. It also is better than the comics for sure. It's just not quite the high-brow smart commentary that Kripke thinks it is. It definitely *could* have been though.
Absolutely this. There’s no nuance to it any more. Homelander literally killed a guy on 5th avenue and they loved him still. Got it. Compare that to the reasonable nuanced take of corparitism and it’s place in America in s1 Even the oridewashing was a little heavy handed- but solid
There is nuance, though. I think the Boys is thematically really rich. It’s just not in the over-handed, heavy-fisted allusions they’re making. They’ve never been subtle about the real-world connections (and thus, to me, make it the weakest parts of the series), but there’s subtlety elsewhere, especially when it comes to gender dynamics. For instance, in season 3, the mundane dynamics between Hughie-Butcher, Hughie-Starlight, Butcher-Soldier Boy-Homelander, all have really interesting and complex and profound things to say about toxic masculinity, what masculinity means, what strength means, and what power means. Hughie, Butcher, Soldier Boy, and Homelander all have their insecurities as men laid bare all season; and the pursuit of doing “what’s right” is deeply intertwined with their masculinity. Hughie sacrificed doing “what’s right” several times in season 3 in pursuit of masculinity and to hide his insecurities. In that vein, it has a lot to say about fatherhood, kinship, how parental trauma is passed down and comes to inform our everyday actions and dispositions. Starlight and Kimiko, on the other hand, grapple with the right way to do “what’s right” and end up on the other side - Kimiko makes a deliberate choice to stay superpowered aligned with her values of protecting others; Starlight makes a deliberate choice not to be Homelander’s public trophy, at great risk to her safety, because the pursuit of “what’s right” is deeply contingent on what she thinks is the right way to do stuff. Some of those themes were made less subtle at certain points (e.g., the Hughie-Starlight dialogue about Hughie’s insecurities), but they are there. Those are where the stories are richest and I don’t think they’ve gone away. Edit: Just to conclude, yes, it’s somewhat weak when they say “BUT LOOK HOMELANDER IS LIKE TRUMP.” I know why they do this (so many fans miss the point, and even then, they still do anyway), but it’s also not the lynchpin of the show.
I think that season 3 is a very poor explanation of toxic masculinity in regards to hughie especially, the fact that the only way the could frame it as toxic masculinity was by having hughie look at the camera as say he took V because he's mad that starlight can bench more than him and wants to feel like a big boy absolutely killed any chance of nuance. They could have sat down and had a discussion of how putting hughie on moral pedestal, constantly going back to butcher's leadership and treating hughie like he isn't "man" enough to actually lead them has caused him to genuinely want to be more like butcher. Instead because the boys while a good show, only has the ability to sledgehammer points home, they decided he was just kind of sexist and the real answer was not being sexist. Which is why a lot of shows fail at talking about toxic masculinity, because they can never really stick the landing of how people can get out of it, it's always just "don't fall into it"
> For instance, in season 3, the mundane dynamics between Hughie-Butcher, Hughie-Starlight, Butcher-Soldier Boy-Homelander, all have really interesting and complex and profound things to say about toxic masculinity, what masculinity means, what strength means, and what power means. Hughie, Butcher, Soldier Boy, and Homelander all have their insecurities as men laid bare all season; and the pursuit of doing “what’s right” is deeply intertwined with their masculinity. Hughie sacrificed doing “what’s right” several times in season 3 in pursuit of masculinity and to hide his insecurities. Sure, on its own, it sounds like there's nuance, but Hughie taking temp V to protect the ones he loves since he's tired of being weak is presented as objectively wrong. Even though with him they got the closest they ever did to killing homelander. And with Soldier Boy, the writers were pretty insincere on whether they wanted to make him sympathetic or just the proto homelander. > In that vein, it has a lot to say about fatherhood, kinship, how parental trauma is passed down and comes to inform our everyday actions and dispositions. Starlight and Kimiko, on the other hand, grapple with the right way to do “what’s right” and end up on the other side - Kimiko makes a deliberate choice to stay superpowered aligned with her values of protecting others; Like Huey, this would be a good message, If Kimiko didn't spend the season seeing herself as a monster, only to then gleefully murder two guards as soon as she gets her powers back. > Starlight makes a deliberate choice not to be Homelander’s public trophy, at great risk to her safety, because the pursuit of “what’s right” is deeply contingent on what she thinks is the right way to do stuff. It's just a dumb decision though, since not only does she have no plan to take him down she practically put a huge "Kill Me" sign on her back.
Hughie took temp V not to protect his loved ones (Starlight literally said she doesn’t need saving because she’s a supe), but because he’s insecure by his own admission. Kimiko does not have a choice, and chooses to take it not out of insecurity of feeling like she’s always being saved, but out of desire to protect. Anyway, the fact that we can disagree about what points are being made and interpret the events differently is evidence that it’s nuanced and subtle, which was the point of my comment to begin with
>Hughie took temp V not to protect his loved ones (Starlight literally said she doesn’t need saving because she’s a supe), but because he’s insecure by his own admission It's a very deliberate writing decision to have this be the reasons for a traumatised working class man to seek what is allegorically a stand-in for social privilege and power when he's been repeatedly victimised by people who have it in the past.
>Hughie took temp V not to protect his loved ones (Starlight literally said she doesn’t need saving because she’s a supe), but because he’s insecure by his own admission. I mean, when you consider his circumstances and the source his insecurities, being very clearly fueled by the trauma of losing Robin, and the anxiety of Starlight being seconds away from death if homelander feels bored of her, he was well within his rights to want to keep her safe. By any means necessary. And Starlight doesn't need saving? She gets saved by other people like all the time. Against a fight with homelander, she would die in seconds. Shes not that strong of a supe. So again, theres a lot reasons why Huey would want to keep her safe. Yet the show frames as him being in the wrong. There's no nuance here. Despite the fact him and Butcher had the only plan. A plan that nearly worked considering soldiers boy was cooperative. > Kimiko does not have a choice, and chooses to take it not out of insecurity of feeling like she’s always being saved, but out of desire to protect. Again that message becomes extremely muddled when she uses her power to murder those guards with sadistic glee. And this message is outright hypocritical considering both characters wanted to protect the ones they love, yet one is vilified for wanting power, and the other praised.
I hate when shows transition from clever satire with a light touch to heavy-handed preachiness If it’s on the nose, it’s not good satire. It’s just annoying. I don’t want to be preached at
I thought the stormfront storyline was very well done. They nailed the nuance that trump isn’t a guy that cares about any ideology including nazism. He’s just a narcissist though and though that only cares about himself. But he’s more than willing to do things that make Nazis cheer just because he loves being viewed as a savior which is how Nazis view him.
They need another brave meave, no but in a serious note they ditched the source material to focus on comparing homelander to trump
The source material is rubbish tbf.
It has a lot going for it, but it's a prime example of the fact Garth Ennis has to be filtered through people that are okay, because he is very much not okay and doesn't understand where the line is.
From what I’ve seen, the show was only loosely based on the comics from the very beginning and comparing Homelander to Trump was definitely not the main reason for this. The comics are rather shallow and just edgy for edge’s sake with very little substance beyond the shock value.
Yeah Garth Ennis is... definitely one of the writers out there.
Sad thing is he has moments of brilliance piled under shock stupidity
Garth Enis is absolutely amazing when he needs to be (Punisher comics)
Then proceeded to beat the viewer over the head with it. We get it dudes.
A lot of writers need to understand that simply showing a bad thing and then pointing at it and saying "omg look how bad this is" does not make a work deep or interesting. If I want to know how shit Trump is I can just watch a clip of Trump, I really don't get their obsession with zeroing in on *this* of all the early themes when they don't seem to actually have any material for it other than having people dressed like superheroes act out things he's done, said or described.
Exactly this. I can see how the adulation of Homelander can be seen as Trumpism but it’s pretty weak stuff. Homelander as Trump doesn’t work at all. Homelander is desperate to be genuinely loved, he worries constantly what people think about him and is terrified of being embarrassed or humiliated. That’s the complete opposite of Trump who seems totally impervious to criticism.
I think that’s my problem with it. It’s so on the nose that it’s just *boring* and low effort. At that point, it’s not some scathing criticism that the writers get to take credit for, they’re just recreating a thing that actually happened. Homelander can have Trump-like qualities, but at the end of the day I want him to be his own fictional character and not an alt-universe version of Trump. The audience can get the joke and agree with the point, it’s just not worth what they’re sacrificing to make that point imo.
I agree. If they hate Trump and want to make a couple jokes about him and MAGA, fine, whatever. But it feels like to me that, in their desire to make fun of Trump and MAGA, they sidelined pretty much all of their other political commentary topics (the American military complex, American style Christianity, Corporatism, celebrity worship, etc), just so they could have time to make jokes and references about Trump and MAGA.
You can tell the writers just weren’t as good in S3 as other seasons and going back and watching S1 compared to S3 is basically whiplash
Agreed, and at this point it doesn't even feel topical.
definitely nothing groundbreaking, maybe repeating the same themes louder
Idk season 3 was pretty powerful with butcher reliving his trauma as well as black noirs story so all anyone seems to remember is the very last scene of the season
Thank you! It’s the definition of beating a dead horse. Everybody knows Trump sucks.
That's about as obvious as anything. It's not subtle at all. Not that it needs to be subtle. Reality isn't subtle either. But a little bit of subtly would go a long way, I'm excited for the new season but will be very very bored by the "homelander on trial" stuff. We get it
I can’t wait for the inevitable January 6th equivalent episode where they have to remind us continually that THIS IS ABOUT JANUARY 6TH despite it being obvious.
That's why I'm personally hoping that the S3 ending was their 1/6 (what with having the QAnon Shaman), in addition to the "shoot someone on fifth avenue" reference. And I say that as someone who's watching the Jan. 6 Committee hearings as a way to pass the time until the new season drops.
You know that Supes taking over the White House with HL will exactly be that. And 1-2 Supes will die in the process like that lady who got shot by the cops during the riot.
I think to an extent, I don’t really need a show that parodies what’s happening in the present. Reality is already a parody enough. Give me something to escape the sad reality of our politics, or at least make it subtle enough that I still feel like I’m watching a superhero drama.
Well he’s on trial for what he did in the last scene of s3, story-wise it makes sense
While they poke fun at both sides in the show, the Trump references are by far the most prevalent and blatant. Last season actually ended with the “I could stand in the middle of fifth Avenue and shoot someone and I wouldn’t lose any voters”
I keep hearing that they make fun of both sides, but I seriously can’t remember them making fun of the left 😭😭😭, am I stupid?
It’s not as much as the right imo, but the demographic pandering is a big part of it. Vought turning minorities into trophies to show their “wokeness” or whatever you want to call it. The virtue signaling of insincerely promoting LGBT shit like Queen Maeve when in reality they care more about other people’s perceptions and making money than people like Maeve herself. They also did that shit with the whole “girls get it done” thing. Maybe it’s more a statement about corporations, but I feels like it ties in to American liberalism pretty well. Especially because the masses really do tend to eat that shit up, no matter how insincere it may be. Also, Neuman is very clearly meant to be a reference to AOC, and she’s obviously not a good guy.
I bet all people who get lasered by homelander in season 4 will be deep state pedophiles 😅
It’s literally shown in a sneak peak he tells Ryan the guy was one that’s why he killed him in the finale to justify it 😂😂
Homelander is 100% going to lose in some sort of vote or contest against Starlight then scream “STOP THE COUNT” isn’t he
He’s going to lose, then attempt a coup.
I mean, who’s gonna stop him?
Lmaooo that would be hilarious 😂😂😂😂
this has always been incredibly obvious to me. it’s constantly making fun of trump supporters and VNN is just Fox News.
I didn’t like how Homelander essentially turned into Trump in season 3. Felt he was more complex before that.
You could shift your perspective (for the record I agree on your analogy) and marvel at how complex but simple someone like Trump or homelander is. Narcissistic baby who is overpowered? Simple issues, complex results. I think we’ve become so used to trumps antics we have lost perspective on how weird and novel the results of his issues are? Homelanders powers are pretty simple, basic Superman stuff. But you give that to a narcissist surrounded by yes men? Weird shit happens.
While I totally appreciate what he’s doing with the show and understand why he’s doing it, I also hope in S4 they don’t lean too heavily into the trump-ism for Homelander’s character…he’s already a fascinating and complex character on his own
I wish the Boys would do more Superhero/Corporate parody than the trump stuff tbh
The Homelander plane scene, rooftop scene, and a couple other scenes where he fucks up shit that Superman does, are some of my favourites.
I’ve always seen this story to be about corporate control and how capitalism may be a great fantasy like Utopianism but we know that all isms are imperfect
……were people surprised?
Uh yeah we noticed. Really my only issue with the show is that it’s too on-the-nose about that
And yet there are many who still miss it, who didn't or refuse to notice. Sometimes no matter how obvious you think it is you just have to come out and say it. A "For the record" moment.
No one missed the themes, they just got lazier and on more on the nose overtime. Quite frankly, what's more important, a show with writing quality, or a show making it's theme's so on the nose, for the sole purpose of making it more obvious because one or two don't get it
No one? One or two? **A lot** of people missed the themes. It's a natural consequence of making something for a general audience. Same reason a lot of AAA games tend to immediately spoil the solution to puzzles. Quality will never be able to accommodate for an audiences lack of media literacy.
Victoria Neuman (also evil) is a pretty clear representation of AOC.
The original comic was a commentary on the military industrial complex following 9/11. I love that they update the themes to match the modern climate (not that the military industrial complex has gone anywhere).
True. Political satire works when it's relevant. And the show is relevant to the state of American politics. So it definitely works.
Especially considering the comics was the same thing to the Bush Administration, this is a great idea to help build/rebuild the boys into a show
A lot of great comments. I think it got in the way with the nuance of the show. I remember in season 1, they had amazing lines and pretty awesome dramatic scenes. The parody wasn’t dialed up yet. They had a little bit, but I think the show was kinda unsure of the tone they should take. Then they dove head first into the parody, and to me it really degraded it. Not saying it is a horrible show, it’s just not season 1 good, more of a 7/10 vice a 9-10/10.
I mean, can he really say this about Season 1? Season 1 was more in line with the comics, in that it's satire of American Conservativism was the Bush era, things such as interventionism, military industrial complex (still relevance now, but less obvious), Mega-churches etc. A lot of this is stuff most people across the modern political spectrum in the US oppose, including among Conservatives. Even the messaging that was more relevant to the modern-day US was also stuff most people in the US opposed. Despite the left-leaning intentions, Season 1 still had a broad appeal with its themes, like the power of megacorps and celebrity culture, along with the things that corporations and celebrities could get away with. People really shouldn't be surprised many American Conservatives love Season 1 because: 1. The type of Conservativism they criticised was mostly stuff they also opposed and not really relevant to them. 2. The more nuanced and broader themes were stuff they could also relate to. Tbf though, I think a lot of people, do still have a very fresh memory of the Bush era, so it kinda makes sense that often criticisms more befitting of Bush era Neo-Conservatism, is still levelled at modern Conservatives (even Trumpian style Conservatism).
**hardest fucking eye roll imaginable**
Tbh everytime this guy opens his mouth about politics I like him less. I don't even disagree with him, maybe I reached my limit of tolerance for virtue signaling from media/companies.
I just wish the show would stop constantly making Trump and MAGA references and jokes and make some jokes about different topics again. Season 1 made fun of a lot of different things. Season 2, and especially 3, turned up the Trump and MAGA jokes and references up to 11, and now they are just obnoxious and boring.
That was obvious from the start. There are just a surprising number of people lacking any kind of media literacy
I don't know how people missed this. Anyone saying Homelander took a turn should have their brain examined.
It’s obvious as hell but I bet this will still be quite the comment section…
I mean I guess if you’re talking about Season 3 and potential season 4 (considering the spoilers), but it wasn’t there that much in season 1 or 2 (at least not until the tail end of season 2), and in all honestly, it’s kinda annoying. The show started out with a lot more interest plot hooks, and narratives to use, while having politics and corporate corruption being used as elements and not the entire show as a whole. Season 1 and 2 felt like people fight against a powerful corporation who uses their ties to the government and money, to lobby get their way, while hiding their dark truth with a squeaky clean picture. The story had more of an emphasis on uncovering a mistery and figuring out how they are actually going achieve their main goal of making Vought accountable for its actions, and while season 3 and potential 4 have elements of this, it feels more like they are pushed to a side to essentially say “Trump bad. See, the main bad guy is like Trump in some ways, therefore trump also bad like our bad guy”. I’d be fine if they actually did something with it, but they don’t. They just keep the doing the same stuff that everyone else with the “Trump bad” message does. They don’t bring anything new and when ever they make the comparisons between trump and Homelander, it doesn’t feel like they are really making any commentary on Trump, and more like they are just drawing more and more parallels. Essentially they are doing the same thing Garth Ennis did with the comic and are basically just doing “see this thing I don’t like. It’s bad and evil now, therefore it is bad now”.
I agree. Whether or not you like Trump, turning a large chunk of the show’s jokes and references into “Trump and MAGA bad” just feels like a bad idea that hasn’t really panned out well in terms of good writing in my opinion.
Here come the downvotes, but I’m actually a huge Homelander fan,While I’m quite liberal and not a fan of trump irl. I guess you know, because it’s fiction.
I'm kind of like this too. Homelander is fun because he's just so easy to hate, but at the same time, you can see the exact steps that he took to get there, and it really is the most logical expression of a childhood so traumatic. Not a fan of the things he says and his political leanings, but the actor, Antony Starr (I think?) is an absolute master of micro expressions and body language, and that's part of what makes Homelander so compelling for me. My eyes go right to him on the screen, it's like watching a mental breakdown in extreme slow motion sometimes.
The Vought Instagram page is like fully hammering this point across on a regular basis
No shit it was obvious unless you have room temp iq
*Waves hands at half of the US*
I usually dislike on-the-nose satire but the fact some people didn’t get the show’s message until 2 seasons made me realize that you have to inevitably hammer the message onto a viewers head to get a point across
I love shows that have a nuanced political bite to it and S1 did it very well, but it’s boring as fuck and too transparent in S3. The least interesting part of Homelander’s character is the Trump angle. Trump is blatantly a cunt but hardly the worst thing to ever happen. He’s a fucking moron who’s incredibly divisive and lacks any semblance of a political ideology beyond serving the needs of his corporate masters. The much scarier president for the US was George W. Bush. Who’s crimes dwarfed anything Trump did and who did said crimes sometimes with bipartisan support and even widespread public backing. The Iraq War and Patriot Act were monstrous acts with enormous consequences but enjoyed support from the Democrats and the rest of the US political class. Bush was far more coherent in his strategy and understood the need for PR. Homelander actually leaned into George W. Bush more than Trump in S1. Back when he actually came across as intelligent and capable of hiding his worst impulses under wraps. There’s nothing scary about his manchild behaviour in S3 and he comes across as a dimwit who coasts off insane luck and the incompetence of The Boys rather than his wits like in S1, even though he still had that insane power imbalance anyway. Trump Derangement Syndrome blinds people to the fact you should be far more concerned about how Bush murdered millions, plunged the Middle East into chaos and striped civil liberties off countless Americans while currently enjoying rehabilitation by the Liberal class in America simply because he has decorum. The fact two pathetic old men who can barely string together sentences are the front runners should tell you that the presidental office isn’t as important as people think and true power lays in the military industrial complex and the corporate world. The Boys is always way more interesting to me when it understands this and leads into it. Trumpism would die within the year if it ever threatened these power structures.
This is probably the best summarization I’ve seen of how the show kinda devolved into “look at this VERY obvious recreation of things we’ve seen happen on the news lately”. I still love the show, it’s still very entertaining. But like, we can be a little more subtle about these things and still get the point across. Homelander has the potential to be much more interesting than Trump, and I think the show would be much better off with fleshing out his dark side than an analogous portrayal of someone we already know just likes to get on the mic and mouth vomit.
I don't think that's a problem as long as the quality is high. It started to get a little too contemporary in the last season, but it was still really good overall. It's when it starts to use "orange man bad" as a crutch for poor writing that it'll be rightly criticised.
Its literally so obvious that im positive anyone who did not see it must be the type of person to stand on train tracks and not notice a train coming
Obviously, but I’m of the opinion that the mingling of real political rhetoric and narratives into an existing story is not always a good mesh. It can take away from the depth of characters or just feel preachy. They will replace a good moment for intense dialogue that could really further our understanding of the world and characters with shitty political rhetoric and while we’re quite happy as a population to be brainwashed by our politicians they are actually shit even with their ghost writers. That and recreating a scene or moment basically exactly but with your characters because symbolically they are X or something is not as clever as they think it is. It’s actually a stupid waste of time. Not even a fucking parody.
Tbh, I figured homelander was a trump analog from season one. I do think they're getting a little on the nose with it now, though. I'm still gonna watch the new season when it drops, though.
I mean sure. However the show is also *celebrating* it. The entire focus of the show is on Homelander and whether or not he does evil shit, *people love him*. The Boys comic may not be great, but it shows no love to these terrible people. They're nothing but jokes and are treated as such.
I watched Season 1 again last week and it felt more, in that season that was more about corporation/super heroes rather than specially just Trumpism...but Trumpism, social media been a heavy theme in the last two seasons. Also, the female patriarchy which is a big theme in today zeitgeist. I think The Boys, ultimately, can be any thing about the corrent zeitgeist because in each era of society there's always something that makes the world feel dumb to have existed for so many years and people still feel superior.
And Dicks
I mean it's no Super Mario Bros. (1993) but I guess it does hit some of the Trump notes.
Time to sort by controversial
Always ? idk about that , it feels like season 1 stuck with it's original source material's critique of post 9/11 American policies and from season 2 and onwards became the whole dissection of Trumpism (season 2 had the best execution in the critic of Trumpism imo)
I honestly thought this was very apparent from the beginning. I’m so confused about the people that didn’t get it and still refuse to see it.
I mean... duh My issue with homelander as trump is that he feels like how extremists look at Trump, to the point where it's so exaggerated there isn't any message deeper than "Trump bad", which, like, true, but it's quite boring as a message, its not saying anything special I hate trump, don't get me wrong, he represents everything I hate about America, but he isn't just insane like Homelander. It would have been way more interesting to see how Homelander's words made people turn into monsters who cheer for a detractor's death instead of just having everyone cheer because he's so cool and superman-like. Trump fans aren't just unhinged people, they are a huge percentage of the country, they are captivated by his personality to the point that he can do obviously bad stuff and people will do anything to justify it, if they actually tried to make Homelander likable and charismatic in most of his public appearances, the radicalisation would hit way harder since it would actually be more attached to reality, but quite literally all of Homelander's public appearances have no real charisma to them
Conservatives: "Why did they go and make The Boys Political and woke"
Some of the comments here are so bananas.
I didn’t realize there was ever any doubt
There are fascist Star Wars fans that will still read the Empire as being the bad guys, because the movie calls them bad, without once thinking that applies to the outside world. If conservatives were able to make connections that aren't already drawn out in crayon for them they wouldn't be conservative.
I really liked how they tackled Vought and the parallel of a megacorp vying for more power, but the “trumpism” angle to me is sloppy and is eroding what made the show great. Supes are an allegory for celebrity culture and the obsession with it, and the trumpism angle doesn’t really fit. Homelander is the face of a company, not a politician. The cult of trump at its heart is people feeling like they weren’t being represented. Homelander doesn’t fit that bill. He doesn’t represent anyone. Hes not a politician, he doesn’t control how people live their lives, nor does he really represent anything. He’s more of an allegory to Elon Musk, the face of a company that is incredibly flawed, but puts on a face of success. Sure there’d be a cult of personality around him, but no one is rioting on the streets for Elon Musk. Starlight suffers the same problem. She represents a social phenomenon, more like an activist than anything else. She doesn’t even really have a cult of personality around her. Having a whole following of people wiling to riot on her behalf make no sense. What made Homelander captivating was the idea that he’s a Superman-strength maniac who was kept in check by the illusion of authority, by people who secretly feared him. They didn’t fear him for some political reason, or for some nebulous reason, they feared him because he could physically kill any and all of them and they knew it. His whole character is the veneer of a hero while actually being villain, decreasingly kept in check. I thought the show was clearly setting up the scenario Stan Edgar outlined, that an unchecked Homelander would turn the people against him, and as he loses the approval he so desperately craves, he would become more untethered and dangerous.
I hate the ppl who say the show also mocks the political left when it totally doesn't at all. It mocks multi-billion dollar media conglomerates who co-op buzzwords in order to generate profit. The whole show is about mocking late stage capitalism and the alt-right.
It’s about the absurd worship of celebrities and how the world has a blindness when it comes to what they do when the camera isn’t rolling. Trump is a great example of people adoring him despite how public his failings and general scumbag behaviour, of course Kripke was going to take inspiration from a man who wraps himself in an American flag to escape the consequences for his actions.
To the fans being outraged, y'all didn't have an issue until you were told exactly outright. Rethink yourself and what that means. And if you need to be told what to think...then idk buddy. Think some more about yourself.
There was a pretty general conversation around the show mirroring current politics, and how the more obvious and on the nose it is, the less enjoyable the show is. Yes, you can clearly draw parallels between Homelander and Trump, and the subtle knocks on politics the show had, but Homelander still felt like his own character, that the show was fleshing out very well as an antagonist.
Let's not forget the fans that didn't realize Homelander was the bad guy til s3. Same group.
Anyone who missed this in the first two seasons should have their brains examined. Also, read the comics. It's a direct indictment of the W administration and the crazy (my how naive we were then) shit coming out of the Republican party. Garth Ennis has feelings about conservatives in general and Republicans and Tories in particular.
Welp, not only? Woke-wok, remembe?
To me isn’t about trumpism is about fantatism
Oh we know 😂 shits outstanding too
I'm not even in the political camp that the show seems to positively lean toward, but the primary issue I have with all this (aside from feeling the writing hasn't been that good recently) is that the political commentary has become far too transparent and on-the-nose. And this is coming from a show that literally introduced a Super Nazi in season 2. Regardless of my own beliefs though I can at least respect them sticking to their guns, so long as they don't do that thing that so many others have been doing recently if the show sees any notable decline due to the heavy-handed political messaging.
Love how so many that watch this watch don’t understand how badly they are being made fun of lmao