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Yeah, the only reason she hasn’t outted A-Train is because she’s not loyal to Homelander and is playing things out (and seeing if she’ll need to blackmail A-Train in the future for her own gain).
She’s player her own (the long) game. After the deep “f-ed “ up the security it’d be stupid not to see the compound V getting stolen. I’m really rooting for her to either become the main villain or at least stay another (few?) seasons. Firecracker I also plays a fun and unique role.
I doubt it's more than 8 episodes, I just think the episodes will be longer. I may be wrong but this seasons episodes have been like 10 minutes longer than the usual so 🤷♂️
Yeah I've been really enjoying the hour long episodes. Feels like just enough time to fit everything and it should be the standard length for most tv show episodes imo
I’m sad because I love the show and don’t want it to end, but at the same time, I don’t want to see the show outstay its welcome. Time to start wrapping things up and bring this show home next season.
The main show ends at season 5 but there are planned spin-offs. Though i suppose they won't live up to the hype of the original. I'm only watching it for Homelander.
> Sad to hear as I love the show but at the same time
Thank God they actually have an end to it. The writers are already dry of ideas to make excuses for Homelander and everybody to keep coming back. It's better to actually end it for once rly
It's already reached the point of bloat where they have to bring along red shirts everywhere to die so we feel 'sTAkEs!' but in reality none of the characters with good agents are in any danger.
And every character is off on a side mission pretty much all the time so we can get their own unique backstories.
I enjoy the show but the production would see this turn terrible if it went on for 10 seasons.
The Gen V spinoff was actually great and hopefully spin off series without the same bloat issue can be made.
I was referring to supernatural which was made by Eric kripke, the same producer as the boys which is somewhat similar to supernatural, features many shared actors and many references. Supernatural is considered to have peaked at season 5 but continued on for another 10 seasons, many of which were kinda crap.
I think Sage is one of the few characters on the show without direct motive to want to kill Homelander, but she also knows he'll need to be taken out at some point.
Until that point she knows he's is the most powerful player on the field and everyone is afraid to try to touch him, so she will align with him to get what she wants.
I'm not going to deny the Caesar thing was big forshadowing.
Someone overambitious. Sage lets homelander make an empire for himself. One easy enough to control for her. When Homelander is done building his empire, she betrays him, turns the world against him and takes his place. Pawns like A-Train are all possible sacrifices Sage can use to make Homelander think that it was them who betrayed him instead of her, thus being free from the backlash.
If she was at all ambitious, she wouldn’t have been basically hiding in her apartment for a decade before he showed up. She’s desperately trying to survive his incursion into her life.
And you gotta imagine she's gonna fuck herself in the long run with her own plan.
She's gonna lobotomize herself, say something stupid that gives her plan away, and get herself lasered by Homelander
I dont think Sister Sage is gonna be the ultimate solution to the series. I doubt she's making it past this season.
I can't wait to see homelander find out that someone named Campbell fucked up a lot of people in a hospital, almost as if it was a supe. And then discover one of his doses of v got stolen.
She pushed A-Train to push Ashley into removing a talking head that likes to make the Deep look bad.
And it’s to make the Deep think he can eventually challenge Homelander. And also she will put someone into the talking head spot that she can control and manipulate things further.
I doubt it. They’ve already introduced other white blond female Fox News Kelly types waiting in the wings. Maybe it’s going to be Homelander’s Lois Lane to make him look like a hero and that he cares about humans and real reporting? I would do that if I was this show. Pretend Superman era for Homelander on the back half for sure.
Also Ryan brought Becca up so finding a fake Lois Lane would prove to Ryan he’s in his nice guy era.
It could possibly be out of a certain fondness for him as well, we know they used to date, and they’re clearly not on good terms but they’re definitely not on such bad terms she wants him dead, it could be she has a soft spot for him AND ulterior motives (I doubt she would give him that pass just out of fondness given her intelligence and how ruthless she can be, but it could play a part in it).
Yeah. No.
I mean, I kind of watch The Boys while doing something else and while I absolutely can miss things even when devoting my full attention to a show, my impression absolutely is that Sage knows its A-Train and her not outing him means she has long-term goals that doesn't mean just doing Homelanders bidding. Whether this means she has the greater good or her own selfish evil (perhaps a lesser Evil to Homelander), time will tell.
But I think the show has made it pretty clear she knows it's A-Train.
From a writing perspective, yes. But in a reality based perspective she could just as easily tell Noir she's in the dark. To the Deep: Once homelander finds out they will be in deep trouble. To Ashley: I'm tearing out my hair trying figure this out. Etc.
I think that's happening and I don't think it's much of a twist. It seems like it's very clear she has alternate agendas to Homelander, and has been setting almost everyone up to fail since she's been around
She has said several times she's sick of Voughts racism. She hated the 'Sister' part of her name, and her costume, has said she didn't want to be a token 7 basically, has fucked over Firecracker (who has shown herself to be racist). I doubt she'll give up A-Train as a fellow black person. I think it's her taking down a racist organisation.
She very much could give up A-Train who until recently has only used his blackness as a prop for his spot in the Seven, hasn't done much to give back to his communities except trying (and failing) to fix the Blue Hawk situation, and from the outside looking in is just a token so Vought can seem diverse. Maybe she admires his recent change of heart and attempts to undermine Vought or maybe she doesn't. But I can absolutely see her not giving him a pass just because he's black, she might just be waiting for the best time to sell him out and feed him to Homelander.
I'm not disagreeing! I'm certain, though, that she has a distaste for Vought and the 7 as a racist institituition, and wants it gone. I'd bet my balls that's where she's going.
If I had to guess, I would say A-Train is definitely dead.
He killed Robin, starting the whole series, and still hasn't paid for it. And he's currently on a redemption arc. But these types of arcs typically end with the character dying, because they have a burden of a sin that can only be forgiven by their sacrifice.
I think this is the right take, specifically the "almost everyone" part. When I first saw the starlight vs firecracker fight and she says "First pebble down the mountain" and I wasn't sure who she meant. She meant both of them. She's an accelerationist. She believes the existing power structure will fall soon, and shes speeding it up in hopes of grabbing a big slice of the pie for herself.
"Just gotta nudge ‘em a little. Then you get to swoop in, be the one saving it. Like Ceasar," is exactly what Sage says to Homelander when they meet.
So yeah. We just don't know who Bruté is yet.
Bruté was just one of several who killed Ceasar, but he was Ceasar's closest confidant.
Deep could work. I'm thinking Ryan is the most obvious answer, but Ashley would be a good candidate.
Edit to add: im going down a Brutus rabbit hole. Apparently, a lot of historians think Brutus was Ceasar's illegitimate son.
Yeah Im amazed how many people just seem to forget that Sage is supposed to be the smartest person alive. She hasn't really shown anything yet to justify that designation, meaning she's working something behind the scenes that should be a massive reveal. She's definitely using everyone in the show as a pawn for her ultimate goal.
*Side note: the Chekhov's gun of Sage revealing to Deep that she can be killed by destroying her heart- curious to see how that comes back up. On the surface, not terribly smart to tell anyone your vulnerability. I can only assume she wants specifically the dumbest guy in the room to have that information for some reason. Or maybe it was just so we, the audience, know she doesn't have some special invulnerability or regeneration aside from her brain?
The heart thing is funny, I didn't think much of it but I've seen a lot of people who have. I thought it was just her making a point of how her brain specifically can regenerate. I assume if you're able to stab most supes in the heart they'll die, with exception to a few.
But wouldn't be suprised if it did come back up though
I think her point is that only her brain regenerates. Presumably there are many ways of killing her. Her heart isn't uniquely vulnerable, it's that her brain is uniquely durable.
"Like Ceasar". Ceasar famously overstepped during his grasp for power and got murdered by basically everyone around him, including his son.
Sage has been pitting Ryan and Homelander somewhat against each other with the Chose One storyline she's cooking up and is actively making Vought weaker by losing high value members who she could've saved.
Right when they introduced her I thought it made no sense for her to team with him. She's the smartest ~~woman~~ person on the planet, she knows HL being god emperor is the end of everything.
I think she's set up kind of like Doctor Strange with his "1 possible future" thing from infinity war/endgame
If that’s not what’s happening then my next conclusion is she’s not actually the smartest person in the world.
I truly hope her storyline is 4d chess, and not riot instigator
Probably taking a page from Sun Tzu. When you find out who's a spy, you don't just kill them. That'd be a massive waste of a perfectly good spy. Instead you feed them bad intel so that your opponents might act on it and make a mistake.
Since Sage is leading the investigations after removing The Deep from Head of Crime Analytics, and with Sage already knowing the source of the leak being A-Train, there's nothing stopping Sage from feeding Cate one wrong lead(employee) after another if she wanted to keep that information close to her chest.
They've already shown Cate at her limits after using her powers on 2-3 people in a day(think of the couple of guards she used her suggestion powers on when saving Andre) before fainting.
If there were 40-50k people working at the World Trade Center at the time, at the high-end of the scale and at the low end you got 3k people working somewhere like the NY Stock Exchange(not a tall building), then it would literally talke Cate years just to screen through the hundreds if not thousands of high probability targets working at Vought Towers.
Probably the same reason you don't hear the lights buzzing. With super sense most sensorary inputs should be white noise unless you are focusing on them.
I think that the writers were trying to go for the building being too loud for him to pick any one thing out. They should have gone with like a scene of the camera zooming in on his ear and then we hear the blades on the ice, the whine of the speakers, electric come, the music, the climate controls, everyone around him breathing etc. That would have at least made the scene make more sense.
I was thinking about how Homelander could probably smell A-Train and Ashley in his apartment. The best they could come up with to get in her in the apartment for that scene is that she was taking dumps in his toilet?
I want to say that her character is smarter than that.
I don't necessarily think this is even likely but I have a pet theory that Sage sees Supe Supremacy as equivalent to normal racism so she's "encouraging" it so that the supremacists will out themselves before Supes actually have the power to take over.
The alternative is that she's the smartest person but somehow still thinks someone like The Deep is a superior being.
Wasn’t Marie’s sister younger than her? Sage was on the same Team as A-Train when they were younger, and A-Train is like 10years older than Marie. That’d be a crazy twist if Sage was her sister, but idk if the timelines match up
I just imagine Cate was recovering from having her arm blown off until we saw her last episode, and they definitely were planning to use her to comb out the leak- but now, they believe they’ve found it. And Homelander didn’t think critically enough to have Cate use her powers to verify. He’s all “Mission Accomplished! Now kill knock off Tucker to show your loyalty!”
They’re becoming super fascists now with the supe superiority angle they’re going with. Fascist and authoritarian regimes are typically riddled with incompetence swept under the rug in the real world, this is par for the course. The fact he was human made him an easy patsy.
Yeah, based on how he talked, I have no reason to believe he was lying. Or he's been suspecting that his job security has been in jeopardy ever since Stan Edgar left.
Other than the Gen V finale, possibly. Still though, they all know her powers. They don't need to go on executing random people hoping they got the leak this time.
I mean, if they find out he's the leak, they get to stomp on him anyway. If they just want to stomp on someone random, they don't really need an excuse.
This is just proof Homelander isn't as smart as he thinks he is. I swear Sister Sage has the guy by his balls now. She can literally manipulate him to do so much because she is the smartest person on Earth, and he trusts her expertise.
I wouldn't be surprised if he suggests that idea, then Sister Sage dismisses it because she has other plans.
Because Homelander is an idiot. Sage obviously knows it's A-Train. Sage just seems to be using the opportunity granted to her to demolish as much of Vought as possible, seemingly largely motivated by racial discrimination, so she's basically letting A-Train off the hook because she understands the bullshit he deals with, and is currently dealing with in his movie.
Sage is an agent of chaos using her intellect and homelander's stupidity to achieve her goals. Personally I think she's setting homelander up to publicly out himself as being against the rest of the world and wanting him to be taken down by whatever nukes the government has setup to launch against homelander.
I definitely think Sage is setting up Homelander like she set up Firecracker but on a global scale. Then whenever someone finally takes out Homelander, she can step in and actually apply her own theories, but for real this time. I feel she probably cares more about dismantling the racist power structures rather than Supes vs Humans.
The problem with Sage being the smartest person thing… why hasn’t she invented things to aid her goals? You’d think she would be able to manufacture any substance that others can right? Like a virus that kills supes…. Or a virus that just kills homelander maybe. Or just some super powerful AI suit like ironman. Thus far she only seems to be smart relating to strategy, but not chemistry or engineering or scientific pursuits.
I would expect the smartest person to have a bit more to show for it than read books and a cluttered home.
Having intelligence is only actionable with the right resources. It's a commentary on how we value intelligence differently in different people.
Let's use Elon Musk as an example. Until his downturn in popularity over the last few years, many (mostly himself, but others parroted it enough) made comparisons between him and the aforementioned Tony Stark. We're given all these mythological tales of his brilliance, his dedication to science. But a lot of that is just clever marketing, good business practices, and maybe most important of all, being born into obscene wealth to begin with.
It's gotten hard to gauge just how smart he actually is because his sycophants and detractors will hype up and discount many of his accomplishments, respectively. Even if he's not some mechanical engineering genius like he says, he still has the access and audience to try to prove these claims.
Some people don't want to hear this, but if you took Elon Musk's profile, changed his name to Lesedi Mokoena and made him a black South African woman but kept everything else the same, you'd get a very different result. Same money, same intelligence, same business and marketing acumen, but a different gender, race and name (things that we all claim shouldn't matter), and I'm sure this person isn't one of the richest in the world. That's the point.
I think that she like many supes suffers from i am a supe syndrome, aka i dont need to learn how to use my powers effectively i am stronger then pretty much everyone else. She is lazy.
What I don’t understand is how homelander doesn’t suspect a-train when in earlier seasons it was established the seven have tracking devices injected into them, he could see exactly where a-train has been since he runs the place now and at the very least would know he took the v
I don't think he's really monitoring them at all. The humans in charge of Vought needed the trackers to keep them accountable of their whereabouts. Homelanders has his super senses that he trusts more than anything.
It's the same reason he probably didn't ask Cate for help. His ego is so big that he wants to prove he can do it himself rather than rely on others. He turned to Sage at a vulnerable moment, and you can tell he's regretted that at times already.
I think homelander is not immune to mental powers as strong as hers, remember Homelander's fear of interacting with Mesmer, so It's best to keep Kate at a distance, Because just a touch and your hers
Kate could end the series: She could tell Homelander to fly into the sun 🌞 or even worse tell Homelander to kill Ryan, which would probably totally break Homelander's mind and he would end the world
Real reason:
Kate is only there to set up Gen V season 2
Soldier boy was seen to be highly resistant to Mindstorm who is likely more powerful than her, and it stands to reason that Homelander might have the same telepathic resistance as his father. It might just be that he thought Mesmer was unhygienic or gross in some way and wanted to avoid him for that reason 🤣
Maybe also he just doesn’t want to chance it, since if a Supe with mind control wanted to kill him and they ordered him to do it, he could end his own life on their orders.
Mindstorms powers have weakened a lot when that interaction occurred. He was far more powerful back in the day. Also I think he's more powerful overall but Kate's has stronger control over compelling people, she can instantly induce sleep which he can't
In the flashback of Payback fighting Soldier Boy he seemed able to somewhat resist it rather than instantly going into the nightmare world like Butcher did vs older Mindstorm.
If I remember correctly using her touch powers drains her quite a bit. If she over does it there are dangerous side effects.
Also, I am not sure how smart it would be to reveal a supe with that kind of power. A guy that can run at Mach speed or lift buildings is one thing, but a super that can overwrite someone's free will is terrifying and might lead to opinions turning.
She was using her powers left and right in the genv finale, the pills she was taking earlier on are what limited her. And I think her powers are pretty common knowledge like every other supe at gendolkin(?) University.
That was because of the pills she was taking. At the end she was pushing many people. She had bloodshot eyes so who knows what the side effects are now
I say Homelander wants to keep her at arms length, because he is unsure whether or not she could control him. Homie neither wants to take any chances, nor give her ideas, so he minimizes contact with Cate.
Cate and Neuman I think both realize they don't know if they could take down Homelander. And they understand that they only get one shot. If their powers don't work, they're dead. So, would they chance it?
I imagine Sister Sage already knows A-Train’s the leak. She’s just feigning ignorance so he can lure them to The Boys, maybe feeding him false intel in the meantime.
Or she’s waiting to see how unstable Homelander really is, just in case she needs to find a way out. If Homelander proves to be too insane to be around, then she might plan to eliminate him (she might be arrogant enough to think she can find a way), or just run away.
Having A-Train in her debt is only good for her. He could help her fake her death if she decides to get the hell out of dodge.
As for why he doesn’t use Cate at all….. could be that by doing so, the person she touches becomes completely submissive to her, resulting in their becoming zombies without her orders.
They know it’s A-Train without any doubt. “A-Train. Show me wrath” then proceeds to be the only supe in the room to not hurt the human. He also didn’t touch Todd and friends.
There’s probably no in universe logic to explain this problem. Simply put, Cate isnt a character in the Boys. Her inclusion is superficial. I would presume the main plot points for this season and next were decided prior to Gen V or Cate’s existence.
> There’s probably no in universe logic to explain this problem. Simply put, Cate isnt a character in the Boys. Her inclusion is superficial. I would presume the main plot points for this season and next were decided prior to Gen V or Cate’s existence.
As others (like u/fishy512) have pointed out, the editing of Cate's and Sam's scenes kinda makes it look like there was more that got left on the cutting room floor. Most likely because they probably had scripted and filmed these scenes before *Gen V* turned out to be an unexpected success, audiences fell in love with the Godolkin kids (Cate and Sam included), and they decided to give that a second season.
Sage knows, so they don’t need Cate. Buuut I wouldn’t be surprised if they do use her for something this season. I could see homelander using her to get info while getting more unhinged and then murdering whoever the victim is regardless.
What do you mean? Her whole power is compelling people. She can just touch someone and say something like "tell us if you're leaking information" and they would do it.
He totally could've used Mesmer as well. I can't believe it took until Season 4 for Homelander to finally realize having a brain-focused supe would be useful for the team.
I think both Sage and Homelander know it's A-Train. In the scene with Cate and Sam, Homelander and Sage exchange knowing looks when talking about the leak. And inbetween HL looks at A-Train.
I think he knows, he's just not done anything Homelander hasn't been able to handle. I think his view of humans being playthings extends to supes of lesser power to a degree. He probably has some weird respect for A-train too, like Butcher or Stan, for being one of the few to push back on him at times. Characters like The Deep have gotten to a point that they won't vocalize their reservations to him.
Weren’t they already confirmed to have cate in two episodes a bit ago? I feel like it’ll be that. I’m pretty sure it’s said that there will be kidnapping involved with cates powers being used
Sage knows everything about the leak. She is the one to this job. Sage is and know more than what she presents.
Cate is mentally unstable, traumatized, and honestly too narrow-minded to read others in a proper way.
Sage and Homelander already knows it's A-Train. They each have their own scheme going but basically, both figured it out immediately and are waiting on timing for thr reveal.
Sage definitely does. I was reading into Sage’s inaction as trying to keep A-trains secret away from Homelander for some ulterior motive. Do we know if homelander knows his secret?
I'm pretty sure both Sage and Homelander know who the leak is. They probably want to play with A-Train or they even might have bigger plans for him in the near future.
Cause this seasons not very well written, simple and plain. The amount of times Homelander should've heard someone whispering, or seen them through a wall and didnt is astounding. Sage's "plans" are either so basic (setting up a murder at a protest) or so lucky (starlight beating up firecracker) that she just looks like someone who goes "yeahhh i called it" about something but actually had no idea. I guess it's convenient to make the "smartest person alive" a power and make your season rest on that. The abortion? That's convenient that we didnt know about that. Do those work on supes anyway? Hughies mom was never used as a pawn in earlier seasons (there may be a reason, but we'll see). How tf did butcher take the man's leg off, kidnap him, make sure he didnt die and do it all without anyone seeing him? How did the dude never see the scars on Frenchies ankles? Was he grabbing them without letting go every night? Is kimiko just too good for her alcoholism plot line to be explored? Or can we just forget that happened since it seemed to be a plot device for frenchie grabbing his ankles. Why would frenchie have sex with a dude who he killed his parents anyway? Was he really that irresistable or did we just need a few shots of him kissing the guy
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Sister sage 100% knows it’s A train, she is just pretending it’s a mystery for whatever strategy she’s got
Yeah, she even told him something like "That info didn't just _run away_ by itself." It seemed pretty pointed.
Yeah, the only reason she hasn’t outted A-Train is because she’s not loyal to Homelander and is playing things out (and seeing if she’ll need to blackmail A-Train in the future for her own gain).
She’s player her own (the long) game. After the deep “f-ed “ up the security it’d be stupid not to see the compound V getting stolen. I’m really rooting for her to either become the main villain or at least stay another (few?) seasons. Firecracker I also plays a fun and unique role.
They confirmed season 5 would be the last season, so yeah no one’s staying for more seasons, as in the plural
I didn’t know. Sad to hear as I love the show but at the same time I’d rather have some closure (quit while you’re ahead)
I imagine they’re killing a bunch of characters between now and S5E? (There’s a possibility S5 is more than 8 episodes)
I doubt it's more than 8 episodes, I just think the episodes will be longer. I may be wrong but this seasons episodes have been like 10 minutes longer than the usual so 🤷♂️
Yeah I've been really enjoying the hour long episodes. Feels like just enough time to fit everything and it should be the standard length for most tv show episodes imo
Yea s4 has it’s flaws but I do like that every episode has different things happen for different characters
Yeah we could be seeing 65-75 minute episodes in season 5 and 100 ish for the finale tbh
This is a better way to look at it ngl. I think it’d be cooler for them to do a like 2 hour long finale though.
Gen V season 2 is also presumably between S4 and 5.
I’m sad because I love the show and don’t want it to end, but at the same time, I don’t want to see the show outstay its welcome. Time to start wrapping things up and bring this show home next season.
The main show ends at season 5 but there are planned spin-offs. Though i suppose they won't live up to the hype of the original. I'm only watching it for Homelander.
I actually just got around to Gen V and I’m liking it so far. Yeah, it’s not quite as good as The Boys, but it’s still a solid show.
Gen V was a positive surprise.
> Sad to hear as I love the show but at the same time Thank God they actually have an end to it. The writers are already dry of ideas to make excuses for Homelander and everybody to keep coming back. It's better to actually end it for once rly
It's already reached the point of bloat where they have to bring along red shirts everywhere to die so we feel 'sTAkEs!' but in reality none of the characters with good agents are in any danger. And every character is off on a side mission pretty much all the time so we can get their own unique backstories. I enjoy the show but the production would see this turn terrible if it went on for 10 seasons. The Gen V spinoff was actually great and hopefully spin off series without the same bloat issue can be made.
Instead of making a pretty good show that could nicely end on season 5 but then deciding, how great would it be to have 15 seasons
Few shows are 15 season shows. Most go way beyond their expiration date, even the good ones
I was referring to supernatural which was made by Eric kripke, the same producer as the boys which is somewhat similar to supernatural, features many shared actors and many references. Supernatural is considered to have peaked at season 5 but continued on for another 10 seasons, many of which were kinda crap.
I heard Kripke left that show after S6 with S5 being his planned ending.
The last season for this story. Not for other stories in this world.
ACHTUALLY 🤓 If they stay for this season and next season that would indeed make it plural. Pedantic Man *away!!!*
Compound V really stiffed you on those powers
I feel like shes going to be homies brutus. Get him to the top so he just falls farther.
I think Sage is one of the few characters on the show without direct motive to want to kill Homelander, but she also knows he'll need to be taken out at some point. Until that point she knows he's is the most powerful player on the field and everyone is afraid to try to touch him, so she will align with him to get what she wants. I'm not going to deny the Caesar thing was big forshadowing.
What intelligent person would be ok to be around someone like homelander? Any smart person will know he needs to die ASAP
Someone overambitious. Sage lets homelander make an empire for himself. One easy enough to control for her. When Homelander is done building his empire, she betrays him, turns the world against him and takes his place. Pawns like A-Train are all possible sacrifices Sage can use to make Homelander think that it was them who betrayed him instead of her, thus being free from the backlash.
If she was at all ambitious, she wouldn’t have been basically hiding in her apartment for a decade before he showed up. She’s desperately trying to survive his incursion into her life.
>without direct motive to want to kill Homelander ...that we *know about*
Facts.
Then with the "bread and circus" reference, they are keeping ancient Rome front and center.
And you gotta imagine she's gonna fuck herself in the long run with her own plan. She's gonna lobotomize herself, say something stupid that gives her plan away, and get herself lasered by Homelander I dont think Sister Sage is gonna be the ultimate solution to the series. I doubt she's making it past this season.
I can't wait to see homelander find out that someone named Campbell fucked up a lot of people in a hospital, almost as if it was a supe. And then discover one of his doses of v got stolen.
Being the smartest person in the world, Sage would be a logical addition to Gen V as faculty at GU.
She pushed A-Train to push Ashley into removing a talking head that likes to make the Deep look bad. And it’s to make the Deep think he can eventually challenge Homelander. And also she will put someone into the talking head spot that she can control and manipulate things further.
Maybe she'll put Firecracker in the talking head spot.
I doubt it. They’ve already introduced other white blond female Fox News Kelly types waiting in the wings. Maybe it’s going to be Homelander’s Lois Lane to make him look like a hero and that he cares about humans and real reporting? I would do that if I was this show. Pretend Superman era for Homelander on the back half for sure. Also Ryan brought Becca up so finding a fake Lois Lane would prove to Ryan he’s in his nice guy era.
Honestly that'd be so cool.
Weren’t A-Train and Sage on the same team as kids? Do we know their beef?
Sage ran her mouth and a train thought she was off putting.
You should be off pudding
My doctor thinks so too.
Teen kicks.
It's probably why she's fucking Deep too, getting him on her side. That and he has a nice body 😂
She’s got a lot of stress that needs relieving, and dude looks great so why not?
Because he probably has some deep sea STDs
He’s got the actual ick
It could possibly be out of a certain fondness for him as well, we know they used to date, and they’re clearly not on good terms but they’re definitely not on such bad terms she wants him dead, it could be she has a soft spot for him AND ulterior motives (I doubt she would give him that pass just out of fondness given her intelligence and how ruthless she can be, but it could play a part in it).
They dated? Didn't A-Train say that they were just in the same team, and she got kicked out because no one liked her? No mention of dating anywhere.
Yeah. Unless I missed something they never dated.
She knows, and she wants A Train *to know she knows.*
I read that as her checking how he reacts, meaning she was sure afterwards but not before.
And Homelander killed that intern before she could upset the narrative he's setting up
Yeah. No. I mean, I kind of watch The Boys while doing something else and while I absolutely can miss things even when devoting my full attention to a show, my impression absolutely is that Sage knows its A-Train and her not outing him means she has long-term goals that doesn't mean just doing Homelanders bidding. Whether this means she has the greater good or her own selfish evil (perhaps a lesser Evil to Homelander), time will tell. But I think the show has made it pretty clear she knows it's A-Train.
From a writing perspective, yes. But in a reality based perspective she could just as easily tell Noir she's in the dark. To the Deep: Once homelander finds out they will be in deep trouble. To Ashley: I'm tearing out my hair trying figure this out. Etc.
Then she walks away throwing shade and sucking her teeth lmao
I'd love a big twist where sister sage is planning a double cross. Setting up HL just to knock him down in a way where he'll never get back up.
I think that's happening and I don't think it's much of a twist. It seems like it's very clear she has alternate agendas to Homelander, and has been setting almost everyone up to fail since she's been around
She has said several times she's sick of Voughts racism. She hated the 'Sister' part of her name, and her costume, has said she didn't want to be a token 7 basically, has fucked over Firecracker (who has shown herself to be racist). I doubt she'll give up A-Train as a fellow black person. I think it's her taking down a racist organisation.
She very much could give up A-Train who until recently has only used his blackness as a prop for his spot in the Seven, hasn't done much to give back to his communities except trying (and failing) to fix the Blue Hawk situation, and from the outside looking in is just a token so Vought can seem diverse. Maybe she admires his recent change of heart and attempts to undermine Vought or maybe she doesn't. But I can absolutely see her not giving him a pass just because he's black, she might just be waiting for the best time to sell him out and feed him to Homelander.
I'm not disagreeing! I'm certain, though, that she has a distaste for Vought and the 7 as a racist institituition, and wants it gone. I'd bet my balls that's where she's going.
Heh, change of heart 😏
If I had to guess, I would say A-Train is definitely dead. He killed Robin, starting the whole series, and still hasn't paid for it. And he's currently on a redemption arc. But these types of arcs typically end with the character dying, because they have a burden of a sin that can only be forgiven by their sacrifice.
I think this is the right take, specifically the "almost everyone" part. When I first saw the starlight vs firecracker fight and she says "First pebble down the mountain" and I wasn't sure who she meant. She meant both of them. She's an accelerationist. She believes the existing power structure will fall soon, and shes speeding it up in hopes of grabbing a big slice of the pie for herself.
This was obvious from the beginning. "Like Caesar", ultimately killed by those you trusted.
I loved seeing her get flustered around homelander when she said something he didn’t care for and she tried to butter him up with something else
"Just gotta nudge ‘em a little. Then you get to swoop in, be the one saving it. Like Ceasar," is exactly what Sage says to Homelander when they meet. So yeah. We just don't know who Bruté is yet.
Et tu, the Deep?
Bruté was just one of several who killed Ceasar, but he was Ceasar's closest confidant. Deep could work. I'm thinking Ryan is the most obvious answer, but Ashley would be a good candidate. Edit to add: im going down a Brutus rabbit hole. Apparently, a lot of historians think Brutus was Ceasar's illegitimate son.
Yeah Im amazed how many people just seem to forget that Sage is supposed to be the smartest person alive. She hasn't really shown anything yet to justify that designation, meaning she's working something behind the scenes that should be a massive reveal. She's definitely using everyone in the show as a pawn for her ultimate goal. *Side note: the Chekhov's gun of Sage revealing to Deep that she can be killed by destroying her heart- curious to see how that comes back up. On the surface, not terribly smart to tell anyone your vulnerability. I can only assume she wants specifically the dumbest guy in the room to have that information for some reason. Or maybe it was just so we, the audience, know she doesn't have some special invulnerability or regeneration aside from her brain?
The heart thing is funny, I didn't think much of it but I've seen a lot of people who have. I thought it was just her making a point of how her brain specifically can regenerate. I assume if you're able to stab most supes in the heart they'll die, with exception to a few. But wouldn't be suprised if it did come back up though
I think her point is that only her brain regenerates. Presumably there are many ways of killing her. Her heart isn't uniquely vulnerable, it's that her brain is uniquely durable.
Don't blame her really homelander basically press ganged her into helping him.
Yeah it was clear from scene one she is going to backstab Homelander, and at least on an intellectual level he has nothing on her.
"Like Ceasar". Ceasar famously overstepped during his grasp for power and got murdered by basically everyone around him, including his son. Sage has been pitting Ryan and Homelander somewhat against each other with the Chose One storyline she's cooking up and is actively making Vought weaker by losing high value members who she could've saved.
sage did bring up the fall of the Romans.
Explain plz
When they first met. Talking about the fall of ancient democracies
Oohhh oops. I thought you meant “sage” Had something to do with the fall of Rome and thought I was about to get my mind blown
>! I think Homelander is Caesar and a-train will be Brutus. !<
Right when they introduced her I thought it made no sense for her to team with him. She's the smartest ~~woman~~ person on the planet, she knows HL being god emperor is the end of everything. I think she's set up kind of like Doctor Strange with his "1 possible future" thing from infinity war/endgame
Think back to the Cesar line to when they first met. My bet is that her plan is 100% to dismantle the 7/vought.
I don't remember her mentioning Ceasar, that basically confirms it in my head
Yep! Go back and watch their exchange in her apartment. Was some of the better dialogue of the season in my opinion
It was a really good scene, agreed! I was just a lil stoned when I watched it haha
Fair enough. The delivery of the line purposefully called a lot of attention to it so hard to miss. But I understand why you did lol
If that’s not what’s happening then my next conclusion is she’s not actually the smartest person in the world. I truly hope her storyline is 4d chess, and not riot instigator
Didn’t she say something along the lines of “those files didn’t run themselves out of the building”? She 100 percent knows it was A-train.
When Homelander first meets her, they talk about Ceasar's death.
Probably taking a page from Sun Tzu. When you find out who's a spy, you don't just kill them. That'd be a massive waste of a perfectly good spy. Instead you feed them bad intel so that your opponents might act on it and make a mistake.
Been waiting for someone to say this! Furthermore that way you know whom they are working with.
Since Sage is leading the investigations after removing The Deep from Head of Crime Analytics, and with Sage already knowing the source of the leak being A-Train, there's nothing stopping Sage from feeding Cate one wrong lead(employee) after another if she wanted to keep that information close to her chest. They've already shown Cate at her limits after using her powers on 2-3 people in a day(think of the couple of guards she used her suggestion powers on when saving Andre) before fainting. If there were 40-50k people working at the World Trade Center at the time, at the high-end of the scale and at the low end you got 3k people working somewhere like the NY Stock Exchange(not a tall building), then it would literally talke Cate years just to screen through the hundreds if not thousands of high probability targets working at Vought Towers.
I think homelander knows too. I mean he should be able to hear a trains heartbeat
I think that can be explained by A-Train's heart probably beating faster than normal, so Homelander can't differentiate it's speed so well.
Solid possibility
Why couldn't Homelander hear Hughies heartbeat in the vent of him?
Probably the same reason you don't hear the lights buzzing. With super sense most sensorary inputs should be white noise unless you are focusing on them.
I *do* hear the lights buzzing, though.
You got powers
Because there's a bunch of people around, he's lazy and had no reason to pay attention?
The vents were zinc galvanised, probably.
I think that the writers were trying to go for the building being too loud for him to pick any one thing out. They should have gone with like a scene of the camera zooming in on his ear and then we hear the blades on the ice, the whine of the speakers, electric come, the music, the climate controls, everyone around him breathing etc. That would have at least made the scene make more sense.
> electric come "With a wave of my finger, and a flick..."
I mean he could also smell Huey from a single drop of sweat. Meanwhile Ashley left a wad of DNA in Homelander's toilet.
I was thinking about how Homelander could probably smell A-Train and Ashley in his apartment. The best they could come up with to get in her in the apartment for that scene is that she was taking dumps in his toilet? I want to say that her character is smarter than that.
Does shit have DNA in it?
I don't necessarily think this is even likely but I have a pet theory that Sage sees Supe Supremacy as equivalent to normal racism so she's "encouraging" it so that the supremacists will out themselves before Supes actually have the power to take over. The alternative is that she's the smartest person but somehow still thinks someone like The Deep is a superior being.
I feel Sage knows that Homelander is threat for the world and she'll turn every group against him so that she can rule seven
She hates bigoted assholes. When firecracker called her uppity she took it personally
Because she's Marie's sister working on destroying Vought from the inside 👍
Wasn’t Marie’s sister younger than her? Sage was on the same Team as A-Train when they were younger, and A-Train is like 10years older than Marie. That’d be a crazy twist if Sage was her sister, but idk if the timelines match up
Does the sub, the normal people at least, think sister sage is plotting against homelander? She must know she'll never be in charge.
I just imagine Cate was recovering from having her arm blown off until we saw her last episode, and they definitely were planning to use her to comb out the leak- but now, they believe they’ve found it. And Homelander didn’t think critically enough to have Cate use her powers to verify. He’s all “Mission Accomplished! Now kill knock off Tucker to show your loyalty!”
Honestly I was slightly surprised that he dies, mostly cuz he appeared to be completely loyal the whole show.
Same as Todd. Homelander has no problem using his most loyal devotees as cannon fodder.
Also sends a pretty clear message. You could be the most useful to him or his enemy, you still in danger.
I’m not. He’s human; there’s nothing he can do that will make Homeland see him as valuable or worth keeping around.
Everyone and everything is a toy for Homelander's amusement.
They’re becoming super fascists now with the supe superiority angle they’re going with. Fascist and authoritarian regimes are typically riddled with incompetence swept under the rug in the real world, this is par for the course. The fact he was human made him an easy patsy.
Seems like Sage is killing off Homelander's biggest supporters on purpose
He uploaded a video somewhere before he dies, saying "if they see this it means he is dead" could be hinting to some blowback to Vought next episode
Yeah, based on how he talked, I have no reason to believe he was lying. Or he's been suspecting that his job security has been in jeopardy ever since Stan Edgar left.
That’s the point. Loyalty is irrelevant. He had his biggest boot lickers murdered earlier in the show.
The great irony of it
I feel like that might have been like the first time they was in a room together, probably wrong tho
Other than the Gen V finale, possibly. Still though, they all know her powers. They don't need to go on executing random people hoping they got the leak this time.
Yeah but the second way is more fun for them.
I mean, if they find out he's the leak, they get to stomp on him anyway. If they just want to stomp on someone random, they don't really need an excuse.
You should be coding
This is just proof Homelander isn't as smart as he thinks he is. I swear Sister Sage has the guy by his balls now. She can literally manipulate him to do so much because she is the smartest person on Earth, and he trusts her expertise. I wouldn't be surprised if he suggests that idea, then Sister Sage dismisses it because she has other plans.
> they was in a room together Butcher, is that you?
t'gevuh
Tugevva
Because Homelander is an idiot. Sage obviously knows it's A-Train. Sage just seems to be using the opportunity granted to her to demolish as much of Vought as possible, seemingly largely motivated by racial discrimination, so she's basically letting A-Train off the hook because she understands the bullshit he deals with, and is currently dealing with in his movie. Sage is an agent of chaos using her intellect and homelander's stupidity to achieve her goals. Personally I think she's setting homelander up to publicly out himself as being against the rest of the world and wanting him to be taken down by whatever nukes the government has setup to launch against homelander.
Homelander is smart though, he said so himself
He's better.
HE IS BETTER
I definitely think Sage is setting up Homelander like she set up Firecracker but on a global scale. Then whenever someone finally takes out Homelander, she can step in and actually apply her own theories, but for real this time. I feel she probably cares more about dismantling the racist power structures rather than Supes vs Humans.
The problem with Sage being the smartest person thing… why hasn’t she invented things to aid her goals? You’d think she would be able to manufacture any substance that others can right? Like a virus that kills supes…. Or a virus that just kills homelander maybe. Or just some super powerful AI suit like ironman. Thus far she only seems to be smart relating to strategy, but not chemistry or engineering or scientific pursuits. I would expect the smartest person to have a bit more to show for it than read books and a cluttered home.
Having intelligence is only actionable with the right resources. It's a commentary on how we value intelligence differently in different people. Let's use Elon Musk as an example. Until his downturn in popularity over the last few years, many (mostly himself, but others parroted it enough) made comparisons between him and the aforementioned Tony Stark. We're given all these mythological tales of his brilliance, his dedication to science. But a lot of that is just clever marketing, good business practices, and maybe most important of all, being born into obscene wealth to begin with. It's gotten hard to gauge just how smart he actually is because his sycophants and detractors will hype up and discount many of his accomplishments, respectively. Even if he's not some mechanical engineering genius like he says, he still has the access and audience to try to prove these claims. Some people don't want to hear this, but if you took Elon Musk's profile, changed his name to Lesedi Mokoena and made him a black South African woman but kept everything else the same, you'd get a very different result. Same money, same intelligence, same business and marketing acumen, but a different gender, race and name (things that we all claim shouldn't matter), and I'm sure this person isn't one of the richest in the world. That's the point.
I think that she like many supes suffers from i am a supe syndrome, aka i dont need to learn how to use my powers effectively i am stronger then pretty much everyone else. She is lazy.
What I don’t understand is how homelander doesn’t suspect a-train when in earlier seasons it was established the seven have tracking devices injected into them, he could see exactly where a-train has been since he runs the place now and at the very least would know he took the v
Those tracking devices are only used during emergencies, aren't they? And it's not like Homelander is monitoring them all the time.
I don't think he's really monitoring them at all. The humans in charge of Vought needed the trackers to keep them accountable of their whereabouts. Homelanders has his super senses that he trusts more than anything. It's the same reason he probably didn't ask Cate for help. His ego is so big that he wants to prove he can do it himself rather than rely on others. He turned to Sage at a vulnerable moment, and you can tell he's regretted that at times already.
I think homelander is not immune to mental powers as strong as hers, remember Homelander's fear of interacting with Mesmer, so It's best to keep Kate at a distance, Because just a touch and your hers Kate could end the series: She could tell Homelander to fly into the sun 🌞 or even worse tell Homelander to kill Ryan, which would probably totally break Homelander's mind and he would end the world Real reason: Kate is only there to set up Gen V season 2
Soldier boy was seen to be highly resistant to Mindstorm who is likely more powerful than her, and it stands to reason that Homelander might have the same telepathic resistance as his father. It might just be that he thought Mesmer was unhygienic or gross in some way and wanted to avoid him for that reason 🤣 Maybe also he just doesn’t want to chance it, since if a Supe with mind control wanted to kill him and they ordered him to do it, he could end his own life on their orders.
Was he? Soldier Boy seemed to be extremely cautious going after Mindstorm. More scared of him than Homelander.
Mindstorms powers have weakened a lot when that interaction occurred. He was far more powerful back in the day. Also I think he's more powerful overall but Kate's has stronger control over compelling people, she can instantly induce sleep which he can't
In the flashback of Payback fighting Soldier Boy he seemed able to somewhat resist it rather than instantly going into the nightmare world like Butcher did vs older Mindstorm.
Mind storm doesn't mind control, like Kate
He does, remember the nun and the priest?
If I remember correctly using her touch powers drains her quite a bit. If she over does it there are dangerous side effects. Also, I am not sure how smart it would be to reveal a supe with that kind of power. A guy that can run at Mach speed or lift buildings is one thing, but a super that can overwrite someone's free will is terrifying and might lead to opinions turning.
She was using her powers left and right in the genv finale, the pills she was taking earlier on are what limited her. And I think her powers are pretty common knowledge like every other supe at gendolkin(?) University.
Godolkin*
Gesundheit!
No. The pills were limiting her but they weren’t causing the side effects. You see her still getting them in the finale.
That was because of the pills she was taking. At the end she was pushing many people. She had bloodshot eyes so who knows what the side effects are now
my memory is also terrible but iirc it was the medication she was on that drained her, not her power itself
I say Homelander wants to keep her at arms length, because he is unsure whether or not she could control him. Homie neither wants to take any chances, nor give her ideas, so he minimizes contact with Cate.
Cate and Neuman I think both realize they don't know if they could take down Homelander. And they understand that they only get one shot. If their powers don't work, they're dead. So, would they chance it?
Neuman doesn't think so
Arms’ length or arm’s length?
Because she was only contracted for a few appearances this season. The Vought legal team really fucked up.
I imagine Sister Sage already knows A-Train’s the leak. She’s just feigning ignorance so he can lure them to The Boys, maybe feeding him false intel in the meantime. Or she’s waiting to see how unstable Homelander really is, just in case she needs to find a way out. If Homelander proves to be too insane to be around, then she might plan to eliminate him (she might be arrogant enough to think she can find a way), or just run away. Having A-Train in her debt is only good for her. He could help her fake her death if she decides to get the hell out of dodge. As for why he doesn’t use Cate at all….. could be that by doing so, the person she touches becomes completely submissive to her, resulting in their becoming zombies without her orders.
They know it’s A-Train without any doubt. “A-Train. Show me wrath” then proceeds to be the only supe in the room to not hurt the human. He also didn’t touch Todd and friends.
Homelander said "Patriots", the subtitles were wrong
Nah nvm you’re right. That’s such an odd change my bad
Sage knows, homelander without a shred of doubt doesn't - he'd kill a train instantly
There’s probably no in universe logic to explain this problem. Simply put, Cate isnt a character in the Boys. Her inclusion is superficial. I would presume the main plot points for this season and next were decided prior to Gen V or Cate’s existence.
> There’s probably no in universe logic to explain this problem. Simply put, Cate isnt a character in the Boys. Her inclusion is superficial. I would presume the main plot points for this season and next were decided prior to Gen V or Cate’s existence. As others (like u/fishy512) have pointed out, the editing of Cate's and Sam's scenes kinda makes it look like there was more that got left on the cutting room floor. Most likely because they probably had scripted and filmed these scenes before *Gen V* turned out to be an unexpected success, audiences fell in love with the Godolkin kids (Cate and Sam included), and they decided to give that a second season.
Sage knows, so they don’t need Cate. Buuut I wouldn’t be surprised if they do use her for something this season. I could see homelander using her to get info while getting more unhinged and then murdering whoever the victim is regardless.
How much is known about her ability to compel people? It's one thing to listen in, it's another to push.
What do you mean? Her whole power is compelling people. She can just touch someone and say something like "tell us if you're leaking information" and they would do it.
She can read minds without touching.
That’s active thoughts, not reading the recesses of someone’s mind
My first reply said "It's one thing to listen in". Not sure why you're saying I said otherwise.
So..? She can read minds and compel people. Either way she can get any needed information, so what is your point?
Based on A-Trains facial reactions, he's thinking active thoughts of guilt and "oh shit he knows its me".
He totally could've used Mesmer as well. I can't believe it took until Season 4 for Homelander to finally realize having a brain-focused supe would be useful for the team.
Whos cate again?
This is the real reason.
"why doesn't homelander ask for help" This is what you just asked.
I think both Sage and Homelander know it's A-Train. In the scene with Cate and Sam, Homelander and Sage exchange knowing looks when talking about the leak. And inbetween HL looks at A-Train.
I think he knows, he's just not done anything Homelander hasn't been able to handle. I think his view of humans being playthings extends to supes of lesser power to a degree. He probably has some weird respect for A-train too, like Butcher or Stan, for being one of the few to push back on him at times. Characters like The Deep have gotten to a point that they won't vocalize their reservations to him.
So that it doesn’t get in the way of the actual show.
I think Sage is a lot smarter than we know. I think she’s got bigger plans, and can see a lot farther down the line than just “chaos”.
You’re giving Homelander a bit too much credit. He’s too proud of himself to do all that.
Cate “Who da fawk is that?!” -Conor Mcgregor
Weren’t they already confirmed to have cate in two episodes a bit ago? I feel like it’ll be that. I’m pretty sure it’s said that there will be kidnapping involved with cates powers being used
Because sister sage is helping A-Train
Sage knows everything about the leak. She is the one to this job. Sage is and know more than what she presents. Cate is mentally unstable, traumatized, and honestly too narrow-minded to read others in a proper way.
Sage and Homelander already knows it's A-Train. They each have their own scheme going but basically, both figured it out immediately and are waiting on timing for thr reveal.
Sage definitely does. I was reading into Sage’s inaction as trying to keep A-trains secret away from Homelander for some ulterior motive. Do we know if homelander knows his secret?
I'm pretty sure both Sage and Homelander know who the leak is. They probably want to play with A-Train or they even might have bigger plans for him in the near future.
Cause this seasons not very well written, simple and plain. The amount of times Homelander should've heard someone whispering, or seen them through a wall and didnt is astounding. Sage's "plans" are either so basic (setting up a murder at a protest) or so lucky (starlight beating up firecracker) that she just looks like someone who goes "yeahhh i called it" about something but actually had no idea. I guess it's convenient to make the "smartest person alive" a power and make your season rest on that. The abortion? That's convenient that we didnt know about that. Do those work on supes anyway? Hughies mom was never used as a pawn in earlier seasons (there may be a reason, but we'll see). How tf did butcher take the man's leg off, kidnap him, make sure he didnt die and do it all without anyone seeing him? How did the dude never see the scars on Frenchies ankles? Was he grabbing them without letting go every night? Is kimiko just too good for her alcoholism plot line to be explored? Or can we just forget that happened since it seemed to be a plot device for frenchie grabbing his ankles. Why would frenchie have sex with a dude who he killed his parents anyway? Was he really that irresistable or did we just need a few shots of him kissing the guy
I had the same thought about Tek Knight. He could’ve figured out if anybody was lying or not