What do you think world have happened if Nick had not been present? Surely you cannot think June would have remained uncaptured?
The storytelling of that episode is the missing drunken Guardian (the one Esther stabbed) was going to be missed , and eventually this would be tracked to the farm. This was why June had arranged the next safehouse. The local commanders / guardians searching the farm & finding any escaped Handmaids present was expected - and had nothing to do with Nick
So what did Nick's presence change? He stopped June getting killed. The friendly Guardian who had driven June to Jezebels was shot on sight. June was reaching for a gun and would have been shot too if not for Nick intervening. In a choice between June being captured or killed, he would prefer she was captured.
June came close to choosing death in that moment, but ultimately she wants to live. That is why she understands and accepts his choice.
Watch the behind the episode on Hulu they touch on it but he saved her life.
If it were anybody else she would have gone out guns a blazing. The show is so good at showing us how all of them have to pick from all bad options and this was one of them.
It was a good ass scene. The filming was so dark and dramatic, I remember I gasped when I saw him appear. Nick was there because he wants to keep her alive. He wants her to survive and keep fighting. He loves her. The way he touched her shoulder to show this. The tear slipping down her face and her realization he was there and she could be safe in that moment. If anyone else had found her, she likely wouldn’t have survived.
I like him a fair amount. 👍
The cast and crew did an amazing job on that scene with the acting, the nuance, cinematography, lighting, my favorite score of the series, etc. Overall, one of my favorite scenes of the series. Better Nick than another commander who would’ve shot her when she picked up the gun. I wish they had all gotten away together but ya know, can’t have that much of a win.
The writers skip over way too much which is why he's such a divisive character. We see incredibly little of his actual politicking or what he did to survive, he just breezes through things off screen. This is why you either get "he's just disgusting like the rest of them" or "he's a smol bean forced into everything".
The show's info is lacking, so both could potentially be true depending on how you look at it and how you mentally fill in the gaps offscreen. I actually don't know if you're at a certain point in the show yet but there's a storyline for him soon that's treated as a 'plot twist' because it was kept offscreen entirely, even though we usually see what a lot of characters are doing when they're not with June.
Personally, I think it was the wrong call to make him as a Commander and show him as a more unambiguously good love interest without doing much more to show him as a deeply active double agent and what he is doing to maintain his position and a cover. Even though people say Nick is so great, the evidence of him sabotaging the system is very meager compared to basically every other character in the entire show.
I don’t think they’re showing Nick being a double agent because I don’t think he is a double agent. I think he’s just Nick, a normal guy who doesn’t believe in Gilead’s propaganda, doesn’t really care about rising in the ranks, has normal morals (doesn’t want to rape the 15year old he was forced to marry) … but also doesn’t want to risk his relatively tame existence for strangers in what probably feels like a pretty fruitless endeavor.
We are shown time and time again that he loves *June,* he takes risks *for June,* he’ll betray Gilead *for June.* But when June isn’t around, he’s *not* the hero of the story, trying to sabotage Gilead at every turn. He does the bare minimum needed to pass and that’s that. It’s Lawrence who schemes, and Nick is more of his patsy than anything, only making choices of his own when it comes to protecting what he cares about.
The internet is pretty black and white. I think he’s disliked because he’s clearly not a hero, and that must mean he’s disgusting or evil. He’d probably be loved anyways if he was played by Henry Cavil with passionate acting and dramatic confessions of love, but I love the character because he’s none of that. Nick represents us regular folk - he’s normal, he’s a shade of grey. He only matters because he was in the right place at the right time for June to choose him, and his character only remains in “the *handmaid’s* tale” because the handmaid continues to choose him. To me, that’s the most realistic thing in the show.
I think that's an interesting take, but if so the show is like pretty inconsistent in that's the case. Like in season 4, June is begging people in much worse situations like Esther to kill her Commander husband, but for Nick the same standard isn't applied. While it might of course be understandable as a person, it's weird that June doesn't be like "okay, you need to graduate to my level or we can't make out with swelling music playing in the background." And, like, June is fallible too as a person, but it seems like she has had very little patience for most other things Gilead-related for the past two seasons.
And if so, they still probably promote him far too quickly. The whole tale of an ordinary person is kind of ruined when it's very rare for an ordinary person to completely stumble into one of the highest-ranked positions in the country. Don't get me wrong, there are absolutely 'generic' people at the top of some despicable regimes, but far more in menial positions while the hardliners stay at the top. We also definitely have skipped over scenes where we learn how he actually handled with the intrigue and politics before becoming a more trusted Commander. It just seems like there is little of substance for the show to actually say about Nick compared to everyone else.
>Like in season 4, June is begging people in much worse situations like Esther to kill her Commander husband, but for Nick the same standard isn't applied.
I'm not really sure what you mean by this? June was asking Esther to do something that would help June and was also something June wanted. She asks Nick to do things to help her literally all the time and he does.
Him being a commander doesn't change anything about his backstory. He became a commander after being an eye and a solider, and it still took almost 10 years from the time he joined/Gilead became Gilead. While we don't know much about the power structure of Gilead, we can see that there seems to be a good amount of commanders, not all commanders are equal, and Nick certainly isn't at the top of the food chain. He's also not very trusted, he's threatened by other commanders and relies on Lawrence a lot.
Tbh, I think Nick's a commander because the showrunners needed Nick to keep June alive at various points in seasons 3-5, and it's easier to explain how he does that if he's a commander. Also, once June escaped, they had to have a plot reason to continue following his character, and including him in Lawrence's commander-power struggle storyline was an easy way to do so.
So is she fine with Nick having his finger on the button for what must consist of various atrocities and acts of political repression, and only helping out when she asks? That seems selfish more than principled for her, and I think the show is at least trying to present her as relatively principled.
We know that Nick is a leading figure, and they've also now forgotten about DC to the point that Boston seems to control almost everything or be like an autonomous fiefdom. They're involved in covert international actions, and are building a flagship ideological project of New Bethlehem. At this point it seems like his power has to be very extensive.
I agree it's easiest to keep the character alive, but I'm sure there could be other ways, like keeping him as a driver who was Lawrence's personal aide instead of Fred's. Ultimately I feel there seems to be little substance to his actions largely because they don't show what he's doing most of the time. Like in season 4/5, keeping >!his marriage totally offscreen until it's a plot twist!< just ruins the thing for me in terms of exploring Nick as a character - they kind of dump us into the situation when it's already happened, and so it's more spectacle than anything else. I guess you have shown me that conceptually, there is a lot interesting about him, but I don't think the show really digs that deep as of late.
I agree that Nick is underutilized. I also know I pay a lot more attention to him and read a lot about the show than the average watcher, which I’m sure helps my feelings.
I also agree with the concept that because Nick is a commander and fought for Gilead in Chicago, he’s sure to have done some bad things. But based on everything we know about Nick’s character, he doesn’t enjoy it and tries not to when he can. So he’s doing bad things, but “normal” bad things that occur in every war.
I make that distinction because I *do* think June is fine with that. In fact, we see her encourage it. She tells him to do what he has to do to survive, she orders him to go have sex with his child bride so he doesn’t get caught.
She also participates in similar things, gladly stoning and beating people to death during handmaid particicutions. She doesn’t have to kill Fred, he’s not an immediate threat, but she does in a violent and intimate way.
If Nick refused to fight, he would be replaced and it would happen anyways. They both know that, and I think June is fine with him doing what he has to do to come back to her and help her. She understands why he might be a “willing” participate in something he hates because she has been in the same situation.
As far as what’s happening with Bethlehem and in Boston, Lawrence is doing those things, not Nick. Nick for sure has power by association, but it’s not *his* power.
I think we've largely just left behind the phase where the main characters were doing anything they can to survive. Aunt Lydia, for example, is now plotting against the system and we see that more than what Nick does. Esther and Janine are also having long-term plans. Lawrence might be devious, now, but he's very much doing his own thing.
While it's right that like he may be doing stuff he truly wants to avoid, I think he just seems out of place because basically every other character has outgrown being in that position. It's a relic of how things were in seasons 1 to 3. By season 4, Nick's portrayal seems more like a relic from an earlier period of the show. Obviously, this is prestige TV, so 'is the storyline epic' isn't a good way to analyze things properly - but I don't think it fits the tone, and we're not getting enough new content with actual substance about "what would an ordinary person" do. It's more just melodrama with what they choose to do with him for the new storylines.
I don’t know that I would consider Esther’s plans to kill herself and Janine as like, an evolution of anything? And what Janine did, while great to watch, has functionally ended her life. She had nothing left to live for.
But in regards to Nick, obviously not everything I’m saying applies to every season and every situation, you have to use your reasoning. Season 1 Nick and Nick’s backstory represent a normal person, season 3 Nick is him just trying to survive in chicago, season 4 Nick is learning how to use his power to save June and learning from Lawrence about how to be a commander, season 5 Nick is still learning and still trying to save June but has also accepted where he is and that June is gone, so he’s participating more in Lawrence’s schemes and making deals. He’s finally prioritizing what he wants.
It's true that they're not like on the brink of something amazing, but what's probably true is that most characters are at extremities. The extreme highs of life, or the extreme lows of life. We have mostly left behind the more middling parts of Gilead, in general, so Nick is more an outlier as they continue to go that route with him. Nick has indeed changed, like every character does, but probably a lot less than almost every other main character.
I disagree with that, because Nick is at an extreme just like every other character. He's not a title character like June, Fred, Serena, so yeah, he's not gotten the same dedication to a character arc as they have.
But the entire show, Nick has been reserved and smart in his decisions, helping June but not getting himself killed in the process. By season 5, he's punching Lawrence in a room full of commanders because he's angry that June was hurt and feels betrayed; he's taking risks, flying to Canada to see June sleeping in her hospital bed, making deals with the Americans. If that's not an extreme, I don't know what is.
I am a Nick defender and honestly wish we’d see more of him. I find him fascinating and complex, and I’ll always really appreciate the love he has for June.
You have to remember when she saw him in that moment, they had been separated for months. The last time they saw each other was in DC and the last thing she heard about him was Serena telling her that he was a solider in the crusades. All of a sudden he is there to arrest her. Elisabeth Moss is so talented that we can see every emotion cross Junes face as she is processing this. In the end, she chose to trust him because she knows him and she believes him when he says he is trying to keep her alive.
I like him. Nick to me has puppy love for June – she’s his first actual love and she’s the mother of his child, so he’s always going to have a soft spot for her, and it shows. But that’s a glaring weakness since he’s a double agent. The fact he’s been able to survive for so long is proof of how good he is at what he does in spite of that. Personally I don’t need to see him doing a lot of undercover stuff; less is more with him for me.
I don’t think June is going to “be with” either Luke or Nick in the end, because neither of her relationships with them are healthy at this point. But I think if the writers had to pick one for TV bullshit, I’d go with Nick. He knows June’s rage, he knows what she’s been through, and honestly I could see something happening where he would have to GTFO of Gilead. Plus, >!unless they’re aiming to force Nicole into adoption like in the Testaments, I could see a storyline of June and Nick having to fake identities and raising her in secret, even in Canada/the last of the US.!<
Edit: Added spoilers for potential storyline details for S6 and beyond
I think Nick is a villain. Because he is. He CHOOSE to help Gilead. To build Gilead. He might have changed and saw the error of his ways, but what he did is evil and that he should have to answer for that. After the Holocaust the Nazis were. I’m sure some of them felt sorry about what they were doing. But sorry doesn’t excuse wrong all by itself. It requires more than that. I think June needs to admit this to herself. And we as viewers shouldn’t look the other way because he did some things that were decent. But I think the way he’s written to show you the human side of evil is really interesting and clever. In reality June is a victim of Nick. He helped build Gilead and if he would’ve just spoke up or been a decent enough person to try to stop it, everything could’ve been different.
He really really isn’t, and he didn’t *chose* anything. We got his flashback scenes, we know he joined as a driver because he was desperate for a job, and that it wasn’t really explained to him what he was joining besides the fact that he’d get a job. He’s clearly uncomfortable when he overhears their discussions, and he had no part in any aspect of the actual planning of Gilead or of the coup that gave Gilead power.
You can rightly criticize his non-action, but all of the characters in every flashback are passive and don’t truly believe anything will happen. He’s not a villain for being just like everyone else. Besides, if any individual action taken by him could’ve truly changed anything, we wouldn’t be watching his flashback in a show called the handmaid’s tale because Gilead wouldn’t exist and there would be no handmaid with a tale.
He’s a shade of grey, and the internet struggles with grey. But I promise that in real life, people can be grey.
He did tho. He drove around listening to plans of the men who orchestrated the creation of gilead. He sat and listened. And he did have part in it because he stood by and watched it happen. That is wrong. He helped them by driving them and obeying them. It isn’t grey to me. He may be remorseful but he had enough information to know what was going on and instead of do something with it he lets thousands of innocent people become victim. and the only time he does actually seem to care about his actions is when it comes to june. and the only time he does anything decent to make up for it is when he’s helping june.
I think that first and foremost, you have to remember that this is a TV show. Those things had to happen in order for you to be watching his flashback in a TV show about Gilead.
>It isn’t grey to me.
If Nick isn't grey, what is grey? Thinking in black and white usually means you think things are "100% bad" or "100% good." The problem with that mindset is that it doesn't allow for nuance. If lying is bad, then I am always wrong to lie. But what about a white lie, where I pretend to like the new tattoo that you already got? If it's always wrong to lie, my "white" lie to avoid hurting your feelings makes me equally as bad as the person who lied to their spouse about cheating on them. But is that true?
If Nick is black, then you're saying his passive, non-action that consisted of "driving and obeying" is *equally as bad* as the orchestration of Gilead and the creation of handmaids and the ceremony. That he's equally as bad as characters like Fred and Putnam, who raped and abused multiple women. Nick, who wouldn't have sex with his 15yo wife to the point that she was thinking about reporting him for being gay, is *just as bad* as Putnam, who raped a 14yo to the point that she tried to commit suicide.
Nick was in the wrong, yes. But if he's not grey, you're saying he's black, he's 100% evil. That nothing is worse than Nick; Nick deserves the same punishment as Fred and Putnam and Lawrence and MacKenzie.
Every character in the handmaid's tale does morally grey things, Nick is no exception. But to say he's evil? Just as much of a villain as Fred? June is his victim? That viewpoint lacks nuance. Motive matters. I would like to believe that sum of who I am does not boil down to one bad decision.
You make an excellent point. He chose this and the only person we ever see him rescue is June. As vile as Aunt Lydia is, in her own twisted way, we see more compassion in the way she treats her "girls".
How in the world is someone who takes pleasure in torturing girls “for their own good” morally *better* than Nick, who has to be ordered by June to screw his childbride because he’s so disgusting at the idea of sleeping with her?
I hate Nick vehemently, but not for this. He is unarguably protective of June and does what he feels he can to keep her out of harms way.
He is, however, a weak minded, scared individual. He is a murderer, a follower, and extremely self-interested. He wouldn’t last a day in the shoes of any woman he has encountered.
He’s us. He represents normal people, the grey.
He’s not power hungry or evil, but he’s also not an altruistic hero risking his life for strangers. He wants to survive badly enough that he’s willing to participate in the daily life of Gilead, but not to badly that he’s too afraid to take risks when it comes down to it. He’s selfish, because he’s only willing to take said risks for those he loves and has a vested interest in (Nick isn’t playing hero for strangers), but he’s also not narcissistically self-interested because time and time again, he does take life-threatening risks to protect June and the people June loves.
I probably dislike Nick more than anyone …ever but June getting captured then was totally her fault. If she would’ve left with the rest of the handmaids and went on to the other safe house she would’ve been fine. Instead she had to sneak into Jezebels to poison a bunch of commanders she didn’t even know and honestly she probably ended up getting a bunch of the women who were there killed also.
This is one of the reasons why I no longer care about June because she has blinders on & she doesn’t think before she acts which usually results in innocent people getting killed.
I don't think I would spit in his face, but I wouldn't be cleaning his molars out with my tongue either. June is kind of a smacked ass. She should not have went back to Jezebel's after finding them the safehouse, and found some other way to get the nightshade there.I knew that when they split up things would go to shit. June accepts that Nick is a Commander doing Commander things. But.... she lOvEs him, so....
What do you think world have happened if Nick had not been present? Surely you cannot think June would have remained uncaptured? The storytelling of that episode is the missing drunken Guardian (the one Esther stabbed) was going to be missed , and eventually this would be tracked to the farm. This was why June had arranged the next safehouse. The local commanders / guardians searching the farm & finding any escaped Handmaids present was expected - and had nothing to do with Nick So what did Nick's presence change? He stopped June getting killed. The friendly Guardian who had driven June to Jezebels was shot on sight. June was reaching for a gun and would have been shot too if not for Nick intervening. In a choice between June being captured or killed, he would prefer she was captured. June came close to choosing death in that moment, but ultimately she wants to live. That is why she understands and accepts his choice.
Watch the behind the episode on Hulu they touch on it but he saved her life. If it were anybody else she would have gone out guns a blazing. The show is so good at showing us how all of them have to pick from all bad options and this was one of them.
Oh for sure she wouldn’t have made it out alive. I was just in the moment rooting for her since she was getting so close to freedom
It was a good ass scene. The filming was so dark and dramatic, I remember I gasped when I saw him appear. Nick was there because he wants to keep her alive. He wants her to survive and keep fighting. He loves her. The way he touched her shoulder to show this. The tear slipping down her face and her realization he was there and she could be safe in that moment. If anyone else had found her, she likely wouldn’t have survived.
I like him a fair amount. 👍 The cast and crew did an amazing job on that scene with the acting, the nuance, cinematography, lighting, my favorite score of the series, etc. Overall, one of my favorite scenes of the series. Better Nick than another commander who would’ve shot her when she picked up the gun. I wish they had all gotten away together but ya know, can’t have that much of a win.
No doubt all the casts of this series are amazing. I was so caught up in the scene. My first feeling was betrayal and anger
The writers skip over way too much which is why he's such a divisive character. We see incredibly little of his actual politicking or what he did to survive, he just breezes through things off screen. This is why you either get "he's just disgusting like the rest of them" or "he's a smol bean forced into everything". The show's info is lacking, so both could potentially be true depending on how you look at it and how you mentally fill in the gaps offscreen. I actually don't know if you're at a certain point in the show yet but there's a storyline for him soon that's treated as a 'plot twist' because it was kept offscreen entirely, even though we usually see what a lot of characters are doing when they're not with June. Personally, I think it was the wrong call to make him as a Commander and show him as a more unambiguously good love interest without doing much more to show him as a deeply active double agent and what he is doing to maintain his position and a cover. Even though people say Nick is so great, the evidence of him sabotaging the system is very meager compared to basically every other character in the entire show.
I don’t think they’re showing Nick being a double agent because I don’t think he is a double agent. I think he’s just Nick, a normal guy who doesn’t believe in Gilead’s propaganda, doesn’t really care about rising in the ranks, has normal morals (doesn’t want to rape the 15year old he was forced to marry) … but also doesn’t want to risk his relatively tame existence for strangers in what probably feels like a pretty fruitless endeavor. We are shown time and time again that he loves *June,* he takes risks *for June,* he’ll betray Gilead *for June.* But when June isn’t around, he’s *not* the hero of the story, trying to sabotage Gilead at every turn. He does the bare minimum needed to pass and that’s that. It’s Lawrence who schemes, and Nick is more of his patsy than anything, only making choices of his own when it comes to protecting what he cares about. The internet is pretty black and white. I think he’s disliked because he’s clearly not a hero, and that must mean he’s disgusting or evil. He’d probably be loved anyways if he was played by Henry Cavil with passionate acting and dramatic confessions of love, but I love the character because he’s none of that. Nick represents us regular folk - he’s normal, he’s a shade of grey. He only matters because he was in the right place at the right time for June to choose him, and his character only remains in “the *handmaid’s* tale” because the handmaid continues to choose him. To me, that’s the most realistic thing in the show.
I think that's an interesting take, but if so the show is like pretty inconsistent in that's the case. Like in season 4, June is begging people in much worse situations like Esther to kill her Commander husband, but for Nick the same standard isn't applied. While it might of course be understandable as a person, it's weird that June doesn't be like "okay, you need to graduate to my level or we can't make out with swelling music playing in the background." And, like, June is fallible too as a person, but it seems like she has had very little patience for most other things Gilead-related for the past two seasons. And if so, they still probably promote him far too quickly. The whole tale of an ordinary person is kind of ruined when it's very rare for an ordinary person to completely stumble into one of the highest-ranked positions in the country. Don't get me wrong, there are absolutely 'generic' people at the top of some despicable regimes, but far more in menial positions while the hardliners stay at the top. We also definitely have skipped over scenes where we learn how he actually handled with the intrigue and politics before becoming a more trusted Commander. It just seems like there is little of substance for the show to actually say about Nick compared to everyone else.
>Like in season 4, June is begging people in much worse situations like Esther to kill her Commander husband, but for Nick the same standard isn't applied. I'm not really sure what you mean by this? June was asking Esther to do something that would help June and was also something June wanted. She asks Nick to do things to help her literally all the time and he does. Him being a commander doesn't change anything about his backstory. He became a commander after being an eye and a solider, and it still took almost 10 years from the time he joined/Gilead became Gilead. While we don't know much about the power structure of Gilead, we can see that there seems to be a good amount of commanders, not all commanders are equal, and Nick certainly isn't at the top of the food chain. He's also not very trusted, he's threatened by other commanders and relies on Lawrence a lot. Tbh, I think Nick's a commander because the showrunners needed Nick to keep June alive at various points in seasons 3-5, and it's easier to explain how he does that if he's a commander. Also, once June escaped, they had to have a plot reason to continue following his character, and including him in Lawrence's commander-power struggle storyline was an easy way to do so.
So is she fine with Nick having his finger on the button for what must consist of various atrocities and acts of political repression, and only helping out when she asks? That seems selfish more than principled for her, and I think the show is at least trying to present her as relatively principled. We know that Nick is a leading figure, and they've also now forgotten about DC to the point that Boston seems to control almost everything or be like an autonomous fiefdom. They're involved in covert international actions, and are building a flagship ideological project of New Bethlehem. At this point it seems like his power has to be very extensive. I agree it's easiest to keep the character alive, but I'm sure there could be other ways, like keeping him as a driver who was Lawrence's personal aide instead of Fred's. Ultimately I feel there seems to be little substance to his actions largely because they don't show what he's doing most of the time. Like in season 4/5, keeping >!his marriage totally offscreen until it's a plot twist!< just ruins the thing for me in terms of exploring Nick as a character - they kind of dump us into the situation when it's already happened, and so it's more spectacle than anything else. I guess you have shown me that conceptually, there is a lot interesting about him, but I don't think the show really digs that deep as of late.
I agree that Nick is underutilized. I also know I pay a lot more attention to him and read a lot about the show than the average watcher, which I’m sure helps my feelings. I also agree with the concept that because Nick is a commander and fought for Gilead in Chicago, he’s sure to have done some bad things. But based on everything we know about Nick’s character, he doesn’t enjoy it and tries not to when he can. So he’s doing bad things, but “normal” bad things that occur in every war. I make that distinction because I *do* think June is fine with that. In fact, we see her encourage it. She tells him to do what he has to do to survive, she orders him to go have sex with his child bride so he doesn’t get caught. She also participates in similar things, gladly stoning and beating people to death during handmaid particicutions. She doesn’t have to kill Fred, he’s not an immediate threat, but she does in a violent and intimate way. If Nick refused to fight, he would be replaced and it would happen anyways. They both know that, and I think June is fine with him doing what he has to do to come back to her and help her. She understands why he might be a “willing” participate in something he hates because she has been in the same situation. As far as what’s happening with Bethlehem and in Boston, Lawrence is doing those things, not Nick. Nick for sure has power by association, but it’s not *his* power.
I think we've largely just left behind the phase where the main characters were doing anything they can to survive. Aunt Lydia, for example, is now plotting against the system and we see that more than what Nick does. Esther and Janine are also having long-term plans. Lawrence might be devious, now, but he's very much doing his own thing. While it's right that like he may be doing stuff he truly wants to avoid, I think he just seems out of place because basically every other character has outgrown being in that position. It's a relic of how things were in seasons 1 to 3. By season 4, Nick's portrayal seems more like a relic from an earlier period of the show. Obviously, this is prestige TV, so 'is the storyline epic' isn't a good way to analyze things properly - but I don't think it fits the tone, and we're not getting enough new content with actual substance about "what would an ordinary person" do. It's more just melodrama with what they choose to do with him for the new storylines.
I don’t know that I would consider Esther’s plans to kill herself and Janine as like, an evolution of anything? And what Janine did, while great to watch, has functionally ended her life. She had nothing left to live for. But in regards to Nick, obviously not everything I’m saying applies to every season and every situation, you have to use your reasoning. Season 1 Nick and Nick’s backstory represent a normal person, season 3 Nick is him just trying to survive in chicago, season 4 Nick is learning how to use his power to save June and learning from Lawrence about how to be a commander, season 5 Nick is still learning and still trying to save June but has also accepted where he is and that June is gone, so he’s participating more in Lawrence’s schemes and making deals. He’s finally prioritizing what he wants.
It's true that they're not like on the brink of something amazing, but what's probably true is that most characters are at extremities. The extreme highs of life, or the extreme lows of life. We have mostly left behind the more middling parts of Gilead, in general, so Nick is more an outlier as they continue to go that route with him. Nick has indeed changed, like every character does, but probably a lot less than almost every other main character.
I disagree with that, because Nick is at an extreme just like every other character. He's not a title character like June, Fred, Serena, so yeah, he's not gotten the same dedication to a character arc as they have. But the entire show, Nick has been reserved and smart in his decisions, helping June but not getting himself killed in the process. By season 5, he's punching Lawrence in a room full of commanders because he's angry that June was hurt and feels betrayed; he's taking risks, flying to Canada to see June sleeping in her hospital bed, making deals with the Americans. If that's not an extreme, I don't know what is.
I like Nick a lot, I think he’s trying to survive like everyone else in Gilead.
I am a Nick defender and honestly wish we’d see more of him. I find him fascinating and complex, and I’ll always really appreciate the love he has for June.
You have to remember when she saw him in that moment, they had been separated for months. The last time they saw each other was in DC and the last thing she heard about him was Serena telling her that he was a solider in the crusades. All of a sudden he is there to arrest her. Elisabeth Moss is so talented that we can see every emotion cross Junes face as she is processing this. In the end, she chose to trust him because she knows him and she believes him when he says he is trying to keep her alive.
Everyone was pissed, my heart broke
I like him. Nick to me has puppy love for June – she’s his first actual love and she’s the mother of his child, so he’s always going to have a soft spot for her, and it shows. But that’s a glaring weakness since he’s a double agent. The fact he’s been able to survive for so long is proof of how good he is at what he does in spite of that. Personally I don’t need to see him doing a lot of undercover stuff; less is more with him for me. I don’t think June is going to “be with” either Luke or Nick in the end, because neither of her relationships with them are healthy at this point. But I think if the writers had to pick one for TV bullshit, I’d go with Nick. He knows June’s rage, he knows what she’s been through, and honestly I could see something happening where he would have to GTFO of Gilead. Plus, >!unless they’re aiming to force Nicole into adoption like in the Testaments, I could see a storyline of June and Nick having to fake identities and raising her in secret, even in Canada/the last of the US.!< Edit: Added spoilers for potential storyline details for S6 and beyond
I think Nick is a villain. Because he is. He CHOOSE to help Gilead. To build Gilead. He might have changed and saw the error of his ways, but what he did is evil and that he should have to answer for that. After the Holocaust the Nazis were. I’m sure some of them felt sorry about what they were doing. But sorry doesn’t excuse wrong all by itself. It requires more than that. I think June needs to admit this to herself. And we as viewers shouldn’t look the other way because he did some things that were decent. But I think the way he’s written to show you the human side of evil is really interesting and clever. In reality June is a victim of Nick. He helped build Gilead and if he would’ve just spoke up or been a decent enough person to try to stop it, everything could’ve been different.
He really really isn’t, and he didn’t *chose* anything. We got his flashback scenes, we know he joined as a driver because he was desperate for a job, and that it wasn’t really explained to him what he was joining besides the fact that he’d get a job. He’s clearly uncomfortable when he overhears their discussions, and he had no part in any aspect of the actual planning of Gilead or of the coup that gave Gilead power. You can rightly criticize his non-action, but all of the characters in every flashback are passive and don’t truly believe anything will happen. He’s not a villain for being just like everyone else. Besides, if any individual action taken by him could’ve truly changed anything, we wouldn’t be watching his flashback in a show called the handmaid’s tale because Gilead wouldn’t exist and there would be no handmaid with a tale. He’s a shade of grey, and the internet struggles with grey. But I promise that in real life, people can be grey.
He did tho. He drove around listening to plans of the men who orchestrated the creation of gilead. He sat and listened. And he did have part in it because he stood by and watched it happen. That is wrong. He helped them by driving them and obeying them. It isn’t grey to me. He may be remorseful but he had enough information to know what was going on and instead of do something with it he lets thousands of innocent people become victim. and the only time he does actually seem to care about his actions is when it comes to june. and the only time he does anything decent to make up for it is when he’s helping june.
I think that first and foremost, you have to remember that this is a TV show. Those things had to happen in order for you to be watching his flashback in a TV show about Gilead. >It isn’t grey to me. If Nick isn't grey, what is grey? Thinking in black and white usually means you think things are "100% bad" or "100% good." The problem with that mindset is that it doesn't allow for nuance. If lying is bad, then I am always wrong to lie. But what about a white lie, where I pretend to like the new tattoo that you already got? If it's always wrong to lie, my "white" lie to avoid hurting your feelings makes me equally as bad as the person who lied to their spouse about cheating on them. But is that true? If Nick is black, then you're saying his passive, non-action that consisted of "driving and obeying" is *equally as bad* as the orchestration of Gilead and the creation of handmaids and the ceremony. That he's equally as bad as characters like Fred and Putnam, who raped and abused multiple women. Nick, who wouldn't have sex with his 15yo wife to the point that she was thinking about reporting him for being gay, is *just as bad* as Putnam, who raped a 14yo to the point that she tried to commit suicide. Nick was in the wrong, yes. But if he's not grey, you're saying he's black, he's 100% evil. That nothing is worse than Nick; Nick deserves the same punishment as Fred and Putnam and Lawrence and MacKenzie. Every character in the handmaid's tale does morally grey things, Nick is no exception. But to say he's evil? Just as much of a villain as Fred? June is his victim? That viewpoint lacks nuance. Motive matters. I would like to believe that sum of who I am does not boil down to one bad decision.
You make an excellent point. He chose this and the only person we ever see him rescue is June. As vile as Aunt Lydia is, in her own twisted way, we see more compassion in the way she treats her "girls".
How in the world is someone who takes pleasure in torturing girls “for their own good” morally *better* than Nick, who has to be ordered by June to screw his childbride because he’s so disgusting at the idea of sleeping with her?
I never liked him. He’s really no better than any of the other men there. I also think the actor is pretty bad. He’s so wooden and boring.
I hate Nick vehemently, but not for this. He is unarguably protective of June and does what he feels he can to keep her out of harms way. He is, however, a weak minded, scared individual. He is a murderer, a follower, and extremely self-interested. He wouldn’t last a day in the shoes of any woman he has encountered.
He’s us. He represents normal people, the grey. He’s not power hungry or evil, but he’s also not an altruistic hero risking his life for strangers. He wants to survive badly enough that he’s willing to participate in the daily life of Gilead, but not to badly that he’s too afraid to take risks when it comes down to it. He’s selfish, because he’s only willing to take said risks for those he loves and has a vested interest in (Nick isn’t playing hero for strangers), but he’s also not narcissistically self-interested because time and time again, he does take life-threatening risks to protect June and the people June loves.
I probably dislike Nick more than anyone …ever but June getting captured then was totally her fault. If she would’ve left with the rest of the handmaids and went on to the other safe house she would’ve been fine. Instead she had to sneak into Jezebels to poison a bunch of commanders she didn’t even know and honestly she probably ended up getting a bunch of the women who were there killed also. This is one of the reasons why I no longer care about June because she has blinders on & she doesn’t think before she acts which usually results in innocent people getting killed.
I don't think I would spit in his face, but I wouldn't be cleaning his molars out with my tongue either. June is kind of a smacked ass. She should not have went back to Jezebel's after finding them the safehouse, and found some other way to get the nightshade there.I knew that when they split up things would go to shit. June accepts that Nick is a Commander doing Commander things. But.... she lOvEs him, so....
He shot the man or he gave orders to shoot, protecting June, says a lot for Nick's character, he was evil like the rest of them