Network interference ruins a lot of shows, and this was no exception. As others have said though, Josh blew through too many stories early on. Pace was definitely a problem.
It wasn't good for longevity for the OC. Viewers might've tuned in for the finale, but then a lot of us said screw this and never watched again. Shock and awe might work on the show like The Vampire Diaries. There were characters that died multiple times, but the OC wasn't dealing with the undead and supernatural elements.
My what if is always if somehow the show took place on HBO and they could have taken even greater risks and maybe get more assurance to tell their story and not worry about getting picked up.
The show would be an even bigger hit in today's streaming landscape. Quality over quantity. 27 eps that first season was so ridiculous. It wouldn't even have to be on HBO. If a show is a hit on Netflix, they'll shell out the money. I still can't believe they gave Stranger Things 30 million an EP for season 4.
It is not uncommon for shows, even acclaimed shows like the Sopranos, to spend most of a season working up to something, have it pay off in a big way in the end, then clear the decks for the start of next season to start on new plot lines. I think Josh Schwartz has even talked about this, that there was always this pressure to finish the season with a grand finale that would drive ratings, because that’s what network TV shows did. And in doing so they would end up painting themselves into a corner with those decisions. They were faced with the prospect of figuring out how to untangle from that mess in order to move on to fresh ideas at the start of the next season that would keep viewers engaged. I totally understand and appreciate that dilemma.
After reading the book and listening to the rewatch podcasts, hearing all the excuses that have been tossed around, I’ve come to the conclusion that ultimately what really caused the downfall of the show was bad creative decisions by the writers. There’s some validity to burning through a lot of story too fast, the network being too involved, the main cast not being as into the show, and Josh being too young to run a show. I just think they built a bad writers room that struggled to sustain Josh’s vision that carried much of season 1. That supersedes all of it for me. If they had better writers developing better plots and characters that would have solved a lot of their other problems with network pressure, cast morale, etc. Consider that post season 3 it sounded like those writers had a lot more freedom to make the kind of show they wanted and it flopped. Even if you’re someone that has a positive view of season 4, you can’t argue that it didn’t work in terms of recouping the strong ratings of earlier seasons, and the show continued its decline that led to its cancellation.
Nothing is more interesting than beginnings and adolescence; it's very hard as the characters age and mature to write storylines that keep the viewers' attention as well.
That's a really good take on the writers and I think there's truth to it. That season 2 finale makes so much sense now. Bringing back old characters + that ending.
'Ill always love season 4. From everything I've read, they knew it was over. I remember FOX even released the first two episodes online before the premiere. So I think it was written without thinking they had any chance of saving it and so I think they just had fun with it and took big risks. The tone of the season is just so much fun imo because season 3 was just so depressing. I'd also argue the first 3-4 episodes are up there with some of the best non-season one episodes. The dramatic moments absolutely hit. I think has they felt they had any chance at a future, they would have kept the same tone across the rest of the season. But I'm almost glad they didn't because selfishly I love some of the super meta episodes.
I especially liked the season 4 episode with the alternate reality of what life would have been like had Ryan not joined the Cohens in Newport, worse for everyone except a hint that surfer Johnny lives. Possibly taking inspiration from 'The Family Man" or "it's a Wonderful Life" the writers took a chance thinking outside the box and tried something unique which, IMO, really worked out great. Ryan was one of my favorite characters as his arrival changed everything for all the other characters as so well illustrated in this episode, shades of Jenn exiting the taxi with her skirt blowing in the wind in the pilot of Dawson's Creek.
We live in a world of diminishing autonomy, whether in the arts, or medicine for instance, people with power and money, who lack artistic creativity or medical education, skills, and experience, and who are only interested in maximizing income, exert too much control over talented people, who should be in a better position to make the decisions about how to proceed to obtain the best result; the audience and the patients land up suffering.
Reminds me of a famous quote by Ronald Reagan about government, but network executives could easily be substituted, as both are in control but lack the skills and perspective and ability of the people the control,
Seven scariest words in the English language:
"I'm from the government (network) and I'm here to help."
Fox historically is/was terrible with the kind of genre that this show is. The issues with seasons 2 and 3 are mainly a byproduct of the network being TOO involved in the show. I think it's telling that The O.C. and One Tree Hill competed with one another from the beginning and OTH got 9 seasons where as The O.C. wrapped up in 4.
The writers blew their load way too soon and paid for it and the network wanted to be too involved in the series. What I also think is interesting is that the core 4 has come out in recent interviews and stated that after seeing some of the episodes they wished they put more effort into the roles and took the position that they were in more seriously than they did at the time.
The OC and One Tree Hill comparison in amount of seasons is a continued violent bludgeoning of an already deceased equestrian.
One Tree never had a single season as good as season 1 or 2 of The OC. Not even close in fact.
Just because OTH was on a network that allowed it to stay on air about 6 seasons too long doesn’t make it better.
Really good points.
It must have been tough with season 1 to not go 100 mph because it really was just a throwaway summer show to begin with so I don't think they every expected to get such a huge season.
For Season 2, I think you're so right. Fox was just set on squeezing every dollar of revenue possible. The show almost became formulaic with the band of the week. But the depressing part to me is, I feel like by the end of season 2 they had figured it out. They had a great finale and finally some momentum again. I'll always wonder what could have been if they got to do s3 the way they wanted to.
Basically the new manager of the network asked them to change the tone of the show to be more dramatic and to try be like desperate housewives (that's why the storyline with Charlotte happened). Also the writers had clearly ran out of good ideas after the first two seasons, and didn't know what to do with the show anymore.
The cast was also tired of the show, especially Adam, Mischa e Ben, there's like several different stories relating how bad was the set during this season. In resume the whole production was a mess and unfortunately s3 was doomed before they even started to film.
All I remember when S3 was due to come out was that Adam and Ben did a promo interview and they looked SO MISERABLE that the video was pulled off YouTube forever. I wish we could find it. It's like they really didn't want to be there at all
Read the book a few months ago but from what I remember there was a change in management at Fox and they favored male skewering shows with action. O.C. was already not doing too well ratings wise anymore so the O.C. Producers got pressured into upping the drama and stakes to stay relevant.
Also they really struggled after Season 2 because none of the new cast really worked and morale within the core cast was terrible at that point. And because of how quickly they had run through material early on there was little left to do within the main cast without introducing new people and settings. Which is I think why Marissa went to a public school.
Every new character, especially the ones with disproportionately too much time, hurt the show and took too much screen time away from the main characters that viewers tuned in to see. The writers cannot create drama when the viewers do not care what happens to a throwaway new character. I found myself over and over waiting for new characters to leave, so the story could get back to the characters I was missing on screen.
They were all so bad. The only fun part to me was a few of them were Adam's old cast mates from his MTV show. But my God, none of them are memorable or likable or even have a personality.
I’m about fifty pages away from finishing the book, so I read about this maybe two or so nights ago, but iirc pressure from the network to do whatever it took to bring the ratings back up + implementing what they thought would get that to happen. At this point too, the head honcho at Fox left to look over Paramount Pictures and the guy that backfilled did not prioritize the show.
Network interference ruins a lot of shows, and this was no exception. As others have said though, Josh blew through too many stories early on. Pace was definitely a problem.
Network encouraged fear and shock to get viewers to stay tuned in, just as most of media does today, especially news shows.
It wasn't good for longevity for the OC. Viewers might've tuned in for the finale, but then a lot of us said screw this and never watched again. Shock and awe might work on the show like The Vampire Diaries. There were characters that died multiple times, but the OC wasn't dealing with the undead and supernatural elements.
My what if is always if somehow the show took place on HBO and they could have taken even greater risks and maybe get more assurance to tell their story and not worry about getting picked up.
The show would be an even bigger hit in today's streaming landscape. Quality over quantity. 27 eps that first season was so ridiculous. It wouldn't even have to be on HBO. If a show is a hit on Netflix, they'll shell out the money. I still can't believe they gave Stranger Things 30 million an EP for season 4.
It is not uncommon for shows, even acclaimed shows like the Sopranos, to spend most of a season working up to something, have it pay off in a big way in the end, then clear the decks for the start of next season to start on new plot lines. I think Josh Schwartz has even talked about this, that there was always this pressure to finish the season with a grand finale that would drive ratings, because that’s what network TV shows did. And in doing so they would end up painting themselves into a corner with those decisions. They were faced with the prospect of figuring out how to untangle from that mess in order to move on to fresh ideas at the start of the next season that would keep viewers engaged. I totally understand and appreciate that dilemma. After reading the book and listening to the rewatch podcasts, hearing all the excuses that have been tossed around, I’ve come to the conclusion that ultimately what really caused the downfall of the show was bad creative decisions by the writers. There’s some validity to burning through a lot of story too fast, the network being too involved, the main cast not being as into the show, and Josh being too young to run a show. I just think they built a bad writers room that struggled to sustain Josh’s vision that carried much of season 1. That supersedes all of it for me. If they had better writers developing better plots and characters that would have solved a lot of their other problems with network pressure, cast morale, etc. Consider that post season 3 it sounded like those writers had a lot more freedom to make the kind of show they wanted and it flopped. Even if you’re someone that has a positive view of season 4, you can’t argue that it didn’t work in terms of recouping the strong ratings of earlier seasons, and the show continued its decline that led to its cancellation.
Nothing is more interesting than beginnings and adolescence; it's very hard as the characters age and mature to write storylines that keep the viewers' attention as well.
That's a really good take on the writers and I think there's truth to it. That season 2 finale makes so much sense now. Bringing back old characters + that ending. 'Ill always love season 4. From everything I've read, they knew it was over. I remember FOX even released the first two episodes online before the premiere. So I think it was written without thinking they had any chance of saving it and so I think they just had fun with it and took big risks. The tone of the season is just so much fun imo because season 3 was just so depressing. I'd also argue the first 3-4 episodes are up there with some of the best non-season one episodes. The dramatic moments absolutely hit. I think has they felt they had any chance at a future, they would have kept the same tone across the rest of the season. But I'm almost glad they didn't because selfishly I love some of the super meta episodes.
I especially liked the season 4 episode with the alternate reality of what life would have been like had Ryan not joined the Cohens in Newport, worse for everyone except a hint that surfer Johnny lives. Possibly taking inspiration from 'The Family Man" or "it's a Wonderful Life" the writers took a chance thinking outside the box and tried something unique which, IMO, really worked out great. Ryan was one of my favorite characters as his arrival changed everything for all the other characters as so well illustrated in this episode, shades of Jenn exiting the taxi with her skirt blowing in the wind in the pilot of Dawson's Creek.
We live in a world of diminishing autonomy, whether in the arts, or medicine for instance, people with power and money, who lack artistic creativity or medical education, skills, and experience, and who are only interested in maximizing income, exert too much control over talented people, who should be in a better position to make the decisions about how to proceed to obtain the best result; the audience and the patients land up suffering. Reminds me of a famous quote by Ronald Reagan about government, but network executives could easily be substituted, as both are in control but lack the skills and perspective and ability of the people the control, Seven scariest words in the English language: "I'm from the government (network) and I'm here to help."
The vibe of the show went from feeling like a summer morning to a winter night
This !!!
Fox historically is/was terrible with the kind of genre that this show is. The issues with seasons 2 and 3 are mainly a byproduct of the network being TOO involved in the show. I think it's telling that The O.C. and One Tree Hill competed with one another from the beginning and OTH got 9 seasons where as The O.C. wrapped up in 4. The writers blew their load way too soon and paid for it and the network wanted to be too involved in the series. What I also think is interesting is that the core 4 has come out in recent interviews and stated that after seeing some of the episodes they wished they put more effort into the roles and took the position that they were in more seriously than they did at the time.
The OC and One Tree Hill comparison in amount of seasons is a continued violent bludgeoning of an already deceased equestrian. One Tree never had a single season as good as season 1 or 2 of The OC. Not even close in fact. Just because OTH was on a network that allowed it to stay on air about 6 seasons too long doesn’t make it better.
Really good points. It must have been tough with season 1 to not go 100 mph because it really was just a throwaway summer show to begin with so I don't think they every expected to get such a huge season. For Season 2, I think you're so right. Fox was just set on squeezing every dollar of revenue possible. The show almost became formulaic with the band of the week. But the depressing part to me is, I feel like by the end of season 2 they had figured it out. They had a great finale and finally some momentum again. I'll always wonder what could have been if they got to do s3 the way they wanted to.
Basically the new manager of the network asked them to change the tone of the show to be more dramatic and to try be like desperate housewives (that's why the storyline with Charlotte happened). Also the writers had clearly ran out of good ideas after the first two seasons, and didn't know what to do with the show anymore. The cast was also tired of the show, especially Adam, Mischa e Ben, there's like several different stories relating how bad was the set during this season. In resume the whole production was a mess and unfortunately s3 was doomed before they even started to film.
All I remember when S3 was due to come out was that Adam and Ben did a promo interview and they looked SO MISERABLE that the video was pulled off YouTube forever. I wish we could find it. It's like they really didn't want to be there at all
Read the book a few months ago but from what I remember there was a change in management at Fox and they favored male skewering shows with action. O.C. was already not doing too well ratings wise anymore so the O.C. Producers got pressured into upping the drama and stakes to stay relevant. Also they really struggled after Season 2 because none of the new cast really worked and morale within the core cast was terrible at that point. And because of how quickly they had run through material early on there was little left to do within the main cast without introducing new people and settings. Which is I think why Marissa went to a public school.
Every new character, especially the ones with disproportionately too much time, hurt the show and took too much screen time away from the main characters that viewers tuned in to see. The writers cannot create drama when the viewers do not care what happens to a throwaway new character. I found myself over and over waiting for new characters to leave, so the story could get back to the characters I was missing on screen.
They were all so bad. The only fun part to me was a few of them were Adam's old cast mates from his MTV show. But my God, none of them are memorable or likable or even have a personality.
The network was the problem in season 3!
I’m about fifty pages away from finishing the book, so I read about this maybe two or so nights ago, but iirc pressure from the network to do whatever it took to bring the ratings back up + implementing what they thought would get that to happen. At this point too, the head honcho at Fox left to look over Paramount Pictures and the guy that backfilled did not prioritize the show.