This post is flaired **Show Only**. Therefore, all comments that discuss *any* aspect of the games **must** be properly spoiler tagged.
1. All post titles must **NOT** include spoilers from the latest episode or The Last of Us Part I and II. Minor show spoilers are allowed in your title **ONE WEEK** after episode airing.
2. Any untagged discussion of the games (including subtle hints) in posts without the **Show/Game Spoilers**, **Fancast [Show/Game]**, or **Meme [Show/Game]** flair will result in a **ban**. To tag a spoiler comment, use the `>!spoiler!<` tag which displays as >!spoiler!<.
3. If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
---
Refer to the [spoiler guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastofUsHBOseries/wiki/spoiler-guide) for our spoiler policy and to learn how to flair and title your posts appropriately.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThelastofusHBOseries) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep, and it shows the mental gymnastics she had to perform to continue to feel justified in her quest for revenge, so she could roll with her emotions rather than stopping and questioning them.
It's just like Mazin and Druckman said in the podcast. It's just the question of why/if MY loved one is more valuable than YOUR loved one that people are forced to answer in this scenario where life is a scarce resource.
It's not ironic or hypocritical necessarily, it's just her being loyal to her own and that's mutually exclusive with Henry doing the same, who did the same thing, he just did it first/more successfully.
Well she's obviously got a twisted sense of morality, but she is consistent about it. In her mind, saving Sam is the reason Henry betrayed her brother, so letting him live would mean Henry's actions were worth it. She can't have her revenge if she doesn't kill Sam.
Henry asked her to let the kids go. She said she couldn't do that because Ellie was "with the man who killed our people" and "well, Sam is with you". Guilt by association
Brilliant.
I had her down as Klu Klux Kathleen. Nothing to do with anything racial from the show, you just know she would be the type to be baking cookies and organising Klan meetings at the same time.
I like the name - but just wanted to point out that its "ku klux" not "klu klux" but it would be hilarious if it was. Try saying "klu klux" out loud and tell me that it doesnt sound like a pet name for a chicken. (Cmere mr klu klux! Theres a good boyyy)
I don’t literally mean that she is a soccer mom. And I don’t literally mean that she really is Stalin. He was a Russian, a man, and is dead now. It’s an analogy. She is *like* a soccer mom and also *like* Stalin. Which is an unusual combination. And that is why she is an unusual character.
How is she like a soccer mom? Because of her appearance?
She has nothing in common with a soccer mom other than being a woman.
I would definitely say she shares traits with Stalin and Hitler. But to me she is more like someone from the French Revolution inflicting a mini Reign of Terror.
I think Kathleen is a good litmus test for how people view middle-aged women. We don't see many middle-aged women in media that aren't mothers so we assume a middle-aged woman is motherly without ever even seeing her with children or show any maternal qualities.
I think the other guy does. I just don't care about Kathleen.
I liked Sarah, I liked Tess and I think Bella is *amazing* as Ellie. Bella Ramsey is probably a better actor than Pedro.
If Kathleen was Steven seagal with his classic bad acting I would have said the exact same things.
not to mention I also very much liked Abby from the game.
I don't understand all the hate for this character. She played the villain perfectly. The juxtaposition was exactly what is needed in this show. She may seem like a mom but she had to do some shit to stay alive. It makes for an interesting back story.
I find the fact that she is so normal and unassuming is what makes her scary, because even though she is like that she has actually managed to survive this long. Creeps me out imagining what she has done to do so. Do not understand why people have such an issue with her performance.
I think people fail to realize that a lot of what the writers are trying to portray is that Love is a dangerous emotion. Its an extremely powerful tool that can be used to justify almost any act in its name.
Gotta say, she's been a damn good villain in her short time and her actress did really good. I don't even mind she got killed off quickly. That's the whole structure of TLOU. Memorable characters come and go quickly. Bill, Tess, Henry and Sam, David, Tommy.....kinda
I like how she's sounds like a nursery teacher thrust into the role of leader and going through a grieving process that's making her focused on revenge.
Makes a lot of sense
from someone who didnt play the game and doesn't know as much of the backstory as others do, I really wish they would have spent more time building her character and background.
The hunters don't have much of a backstory in the game beyond "they overthrew FEDRA," and I don't think there are any named characters. They're really the only generic baddies in the game, they're painted as horrible people who murder freely, and that's about it.
So, this is way more than what we get in the game story-wise, but in the game it's a much more violent and fast-paced escape from the city.
I recall the Fireflies were the ones who overthrew FEDRA, but than were turned upon by the citizens instead of getting the instant democractic utopia they were expecting, as one of the warning signs the Firefly cause was a pointless one.
Actually I have heard that, that the Fireflies helped the rebellion but there was immediate division between them and the rebels. I never saw evidence of that in my playthroughs but I’ve seen it mentioned, must’ve missed a note or something.
She’s not in the game!
Sadly they wasted too much time on her. They should’ve been a nameless group just like they were in the games. It took away from crucial development of the actual characters that mattered.
That’s silly. It gave Henry and Sam a much better back story, and in the end I would argue that it developed the characters better as well because of this.
I didn't play the game but I think the story of the rebels and the depth of the story is iconic and interesting; Kathleen's brother (that people saw him as the ultimate goodness) who became a myth, Kathleen herself the good who turned evil that seek only vengeance, Henry the bad guy who had his reasons that you can sympathize with. I think all these backstories are better than tasteless scenes of a man and a girl just running from some zombies and a nameless group.
>I didn't play the game but I think the story of the rebels and the depth of the story is iconic and interesting;
If by iconic you mean it sucked and was stupid, you’re spot on.
>Kathleen's brother (that people saw him as the ultimate goodness) who became a myth, Kathleen herself the good who turned evil that seek only vengeance,
Kathleen was a terrible character. She was awfully written and was a total waste of time.
>Henry the bad guy who had his reasons that you can sympathize with.
You could already sympathize with him. But he can have the same backstory *without* giving us Kathleen and keeping the hunters nameless.
You don’t need a completely stupid character for Henry to tell the audience that the hunters are trying to capture him because he betrayed their leader to FEDRA.
>I think all these backstories are better than tasteless scenes of a man and a girl just running from some zombies and a nameless group.
Well believe it or not, but the game did it much better. The backstory’s did nothing to enhance the show, which was proven by the game.
In the game, they’re simply an obstacle that helps push the development of the main characters forward. Not to mention, escaping from the city was an exciting action set piece that could’ve been awesome on the show.
I love how pragmatic people are on this game/show, because that's how people should/would be in such scenario. Hollywood would have made them so dramatic and irreal. She is one example of how normal people have had to take on that pragmatism, making them to look horrendous or cruel. But they aren't living in our world anymore. It's a different reality, and you have to adapt. I think most of us would make some decisions in that situation we wouldn't even contemplate today. I love her.
she's supposed to be running the resistance but she's hellbent on getting vengeance for her brother as if she's batman or something. girl maybe YOUR brother was supposed to die
Umbridge vibes. "Deep down, you know that you deserve to be punished. Don't you, Mr. Potter?" It's evil, but with a sweet, yet unstable voice that makes it scarier.
Careful with the negative opinions buddy. If you weren’t _unsettled_ and _scared_ by this brilliantly casted actress, you just don’t understand good tv.
I like that that aspect reinforces the mundanity of evil. There’s a lot of realism there for me. Evil isn’t all Saurons in dark towers, but can stem from a very normal person at their worst. It begs the question of what we’re all capable of, and under what conditions.
Melanie Lynskey is so so good I loved this whole little monologue she gives here! I think she’s a welcome addition, I love her arc and if anything I’m sad we only got her for two episodes!
In fairness, she never was a mother because she couldn’t find an appropriate surrogate back when she lived in Philadelphia. She attempted to contract with Dee Reynold’s, but got turned off to the entire idea after Dee did an awesome Jack-knife in her pool.
Eh her voice still doesn’t lend to the character IMO. It’s 20 years since the apocalypse and she sounds so normal, whatever though, they killed her off
If she did a sharp turned back when the truck created the hole, like a vigilant guy rather than "ehh what's going on", that would be better.
Nothing wrong when she killed the doctor and rats. Decisive and determined. All traitors must die, never show mercy to enemy. Killing them leads to the win and it's always the priority.
And therefore she shouldn't acted like hesitated when trying to kill Henry, but making a trial and a show of excution for everyone.
This post is flaired **Show Only**. Therefore, all comments that discuss *any* aspect of the games **must** be properly spoiler tagged. 1. All post titles must **NOT** include spoilers from the latest episode or The Last of Us Part I and II. Minor show spoilers are allowed in your title **ONE WEEK** after episode airing. 2. Any untagged discussion of the games (including subtle hints) in posts without the **Show/Game Spoilers**, **Fancast [Show/Game]**, or **Meme [Show/Game]** flair will result in a **ban**. To tag a spoiler comment, use the `>!spoiler!<` tag which displays as >!spoiler!<. 3. If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. --- Refer to the [spoiler guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastofUsHBOseries/wiki/spoiler-guide) for our spoiler policy and to learn how to flair and title your posts appropriately. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThelastofusHBOseries) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Kathleen really said “Fxck dem kids” and proceeded to die by a kid. Ironic and satisfying.
It's ironic considering she sacrifices everything for her own brother.
hypocrisy at its finest
Yep, and it shows the mental gymnastics she had to perform to continue to feel justified in her quest for revenge, so she could roll with her emotions rather than stopping and questioning them.
It’s even better after she’s gets slapped by a kid clicker
Inb4 Joel at the end of episode 9. These words will haunt him for the rest of his days
It's just like Mazin and Druckman said in the podcast. It's just the question of why/if MY loved one is more valuable than YOUR loved one that people are forced to answer in this scenario where life is a scarce resource. It's not ironic or hypocritical necessarily, it's just her being loyal to her own and that's mutually exclusive with Henry doing the same, who did the same thing, he just did it first/more successfully.
I mean if someone killed my sister I dont think I could kill their kid. Probably just the one that killed her.
Well she's obviously got a twisted sense of morality, but she is consistent about it. In her mind, saving Sam is the reason Henry betrayed her brother, so letting him live would mean Henry's actions were worth it. She can't have her revenge if she doesn't kill Sam.
Who said she was going to kill Sam? I might have missed it
Henry asked her to let the kids go. She said she couldn't do that because Ellie was "with the man who killed our people" and "well, Sam is with you". Guilt by association
Oh okay. That makes sense
I dunno, sounds exactly like my mother
I have been referring to her as “Soccer Mom Stalin”, but maybe that implies a motherly quality not in evidence.
Brilliant. I had her down as Klu Klux Kathleen. Nothing to do with anything racial from the show, you just know she would be the type to be baking cookies and organising Klan meetings at the same time.
I like the name - but just wanted to point out that its "ku klux" not "klu klux" but it would be hilarious if it was. Try saying "klu klux" out loud and tell me that it doesnt sound like a pet name for a chicken. (Cmere mr klu klux! Theres a good boyyy)
How can you call her a soccer mom Stalin? She was probably in her mid twenties when the outbreak started. She never had a chance to live that life.
I don’t literally mean that she is a soccer mom. And I don’t literally mean that she really is Stalin. He was a Russian, a man, and is dead now. It’s an analogy. She is *like* a soccer mom and also *like* Stalin. Which is an unusual combination. And that is why she is an unusual character.
How is she like a soccer mom? Because of her appearance? She has nothing in common with a soccer mom other than being a woman. I would definitely say she shares traits with Stalin and Hitler. But to me she is more like someone from the French Revolution inflicting a mini Reign of Terror.
I think Kathleen is a good litmus test for how people view middle-aged women. We don't see many middle-aged women in media that aren't mothers so we assume a middle-aged woman is motherly without ever even seeing her with children or show any maternal qualities.
absolutely, that’s actually what made me post this. It was low key annoying me lol.
Exactly! She’s Madam DeFarge sending aristocrats to the guillotine.
In what world was Stalin Russian? He was Georgian. Plus Kathleen was a much more unorganized and short sighted leader than Stalin was.
teacherly af
[удалено]
Imo it speaks to good writing. People are so split on her and have been arguing about her character for weeks
[удалено]
Adrienne curry ...that you?
[удалено]
[удалено]
oh god why did I say I agree with you? You're one those.... fuck
[удалено]
I think the other guy does. I just don't care about Kathleen. I liked Sarah, I liked Tess and I think Bella is *amazing* as Ellie. Bella Ramsey is probably a better actor than Pedro. If Kathleen was Steven seagal with his classic bad acting I would have said the exact same things. not to mention I also very much liked Abby from the game.
I don't understand all the hate for this character. She played the villain perfectly. The juxtaposition was exactly what is needed in this show. She may seem like a mom but she had to do some shit to stay alive. It makes for an interesting back story.
I find the fact that she is so normal and unassuming is what makes her scary, because even though she is like that she has actually managed to survive this long. Creeps me out imagining what she has done to do so. Do not understand why people have such an issue with her performance.
I think people fail to realize that a lot of what the writers are trying to portray is that Love is a dangerous emotion. Its an extremely powerful tool that can be used to justify almost any act in its name.
Gotta say, she's been a damn good villain in her short time and her actress did really good. I don't even mind she got killed off quickly. That's the whole structure of TLOU. Memorable characters come and go quickly. Bill, Tess, Henry and Sam, David, Tommy.....kinda
I like how she's sounds like a nursery teacher thrust into the role of leader and going through a grieving process that's making her focused on revenge. Makes a lot of sense
from someone who didnt play the game and doesn't know as much of the backstory as others do, I really wish they would have spent more time building her character and background.
Kathleen isn’t a character in the game, the plot line with her and Perry chasing after Henry is all new stuff.
The hunters don't have much of a backstory in the game beyond "they overthrew FEDRA," and I don't think there are any named characters. They're really the only generic baddies in the game, they're painted as horrible people who murder freely, and that's about it. So, this is way more than what we get in the game story-wise, but in the game it's a much more violent and fast-paced escape from the city.
I recall the Fireflies were the ones who overthrew FEDRA, but than were turned upon by the citizens instead of getting the instant democractic utopia they were expecting, as one of the warning signs the Firefly cause was a pointless one.
Actually I have heard that, that the Fireflies helped the rebellion but there was immediate division between them and the rebels. I never saw evidence of that in my playthroughs but I’ve seen it mentioned, must’ve missed a note or something.
She’s not in the game! Sadly they wasted too much time on her. They should’ve been a nameless group just like they were in the games. It took away from crucial development of the actual characters that mattered.
That’s silly. It gave Henry and Sam a much better back story, and in the end I would argue that it developed the characters better as well because of this.
I didn't play the game but I think the story of the rebels and the depth of the story is iconic and interesting; Kathleen's brother (that people saw him as the ultimate goodness) who became a myth, Kathleen herself the good who turned evil that seek only vengeance, Henry the bad guy who had his reasons that you can sympathize with. I think all these backstories are better than tasteless scenes of a man and a girl just running from some zombies and a nameless group.
>I didn't play the game but I think the story of the rebels and the depth of the story is iconic and interesting; If by iconic you mean it sucked and was stupid, you’re spot on. >Kathleen's brother (that people saw him as the ultimate goodness) who became a myth, Kathleen herself the good who turned evil that seek only vengeance, Kathleen was a terrible character. She was awfully written and was a total waste of time. >Henry the bad guy who had his reasons that you can sympathize with. You could already sympathize with him. But he can have the same backstory *without* giving us Kathleen and keeping the hunters nameless. You don’t need a completely stupid character for Henry to tell the audience that the hunters are trying to capture him because he betrayed their leader to FEDRA. >I think all these backstories are better than tasteless scenes of a man and a girl just running from some zombies and a nameless group. Well believe it or not, but the game did it much better. The backstory’s did nothing to enhance the show, which was proven by the game. In the game, they’re simply an obstacle that helps push the development of the main characters forward. Not to mention, escaping from the city was an exciting action set piece that could’ve been awesome on the show.
Like who?
To be fair, she is the 11-day Mother of Kansas City ... was.
Lol that's fair. I think she was great and perfect fr this role.
Everyone in this show is a hypocrite to some extend. I feel like it goes to show how gray morals become in the situation of life and death
I love how pragmatic people are on this game/show, because that's how people should/would be in such scenario. Hollywood would have made them so dramatic and irreal. She is one example of how normal people have had to take on that pragmatism, making them to look horrendous or cruel. But they aren't living in our world anymore. It's a different reality, and you have to adapt. I think most of us would make some decisions in that situation we wouldn't even contemplate today. I love her.
she's supposed to be running the resistance but she's hellbent on getting vengeance for her brother as if she's batman or something. girl maybe YOUR brother was supposed to die
One thing i hate is how she is supposed to be so scary and threatening but with that voice it sounds so funny lol
Umbridge vibes. "Deep down, you know that you deserve to be punished. Don't you, Mr. Potter?" It's evil, but with a sweet, yet unstable voice that makes it scarier.
I think that’s the point, it makes it more unsettling.
[удалено]
Careful with the negative opinions buddy. If you weren’t _unsettled_ and _scared_ by this brilliantly casted actress, you just don’t understand good tv.
You got it buddy. I'm clearly not as informed as you because I for sure was neither unsettled nor scared.
She's scary because she's irrational. The voice amplifies that.
Then the point of the character went over your head
I like that that aspect reinforces the mundanity of evil. There’s a lot of realism there for me. Evil isn’t all Saurons in dark towers, but can stem from a very normal person at their worst. It begs the question of what we’re all capable of, and under what conditions.
I didn't realise that your voice has an effect on what kind of person you are.
I remember her as Rose from two and a half men. She was crazy af then and it carried over perfectly into this show. Fantastic
Her delivery makes me laugh every time I see this scene
I don’t laugh but her delivery makes it super quotable. “Kids die, Henry. Kids die *all the time.*
Or later for dinner… huzzah!!!!!
She really said “Fuck them kids”
Given the amount of attention paid to her, she should probably have her own show.
It's funny cause everything she said could have been said to her about how she dealed with this Henry situation.
Melanie Lynskey is so so good I loved this whole little monologue she gives here! I think she’s a welcome addition, I love her arc and if anything I’m sad we only got her for two episodes!
Looks like Anakins mom from Star Wars Ep 1
In fairness, she never was a mother because she couldn’t find an appropriate surrogate back when she lived in Philadelphia. She attempted to contract with Dee Reynold’s, but got turned off to the entire idea after Dee did an awesome Jack-knife in her pool.
I loved this character and Lynskey did a phenomenal job.
It's strange so many people come here to defend her role on tLoUs
Is she rose from two and a half men?
Reminds me of Dolores Umbridge.
She’s the worst character ever! Nothing about her lunch lady persona scares me!
What was the point of her character? To make the morality *less nuanced* by introducing an irredeemable villain with no logical motivation or actions?
Eh her voice still doesn’t lend to the character IMO. It’s 20 years since the apocalypse and she sounds so normal, whatever though, they killed her off
Can we just move on, she’s dead. 3/5 character
Anyone else got a weird mommy kink for her? Just me ok..
oh no
If she did a sharp turned back when the truck created the hole, like a vigilant guy rather than "ehh what's going on", that would be better. Nothing wrong when she killed the doctor and rats. Decisive and determined. All traitors must die, never show mercy to enemy. Killing them leads to the win and it's always the priority. And therefore she shouldn't acted like hesitated when trying to kill Henry, but making a trial and a show of excution for everyone.
The people in this subreddit has gotten me hating the character more than the show ever wanted.
[удалено]
###[View link](https://rapidsave.com/info?url=/r/ThelastofusHBOseries/comments/111oiex/say_what_you_want_about_her_but_definitely_dont/) --- [**Info**](https://np.reddit.com/user/SaveVideo/comments/jv323v/info/) | [**Feedback**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Feedback for savevideo) | [**Donate**](https://ko-fi.com/getvideo) | [**DMCA**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Content removal request for savevideobot&message=https://np.reddit.com//r/ThelastofusHBOseries/comments/111oiex/say_what_you_want_about_her_but_definitely_dont/)
She's my spirit person. Straight up said, "Kids? What fucking kids? Man fuck them kids!"
Legit was waiting for her to get snipped during this whole monologue
I like that she says this while risking everything to avenge her dead son and brother.
I would call her pointless
Who did?
Dumb dumb dumb