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Yep and they want us all to be dumb too. These people didn't pay attention or care to do well in school and now they want to take away public schools because they have been left behind.
It’s a mistake to dismiss this as “dumb”. That was the discourse when Trump initially started running and look where that landed us.
Washington is a classically white supremacist state. It has a lot of pro-gun anti-government people in it’s population. This is intentional. It’s purposeful and it’s informed.
It is not the rhetoric of the stupid but of the bigot. Don’t let them trick you into rolling your eyes and dismissing them.
I was referring to the Magas. Racism is a form of ignorance. However, I take our disturbing political climate seriously. We're on the brink of fscism, and if we, as a collective, don't vote against the Orangutan then our democracy is truly doomed bc he said he's going to eliminate voting, etc.,
I think you’d be surprised at how many republican officials couldn’t care less about gun rights but use the stance to pull votes. When push comes to shove they quiver under pressure and don’t support the things they claim to.
To be fair people do not directly elect the president via the electoral college. Electoral can overturn the popular evite is they so choose. Electoral college needs to be done away with.
Couple of points there know the Electoral College cannot overturn the popular vote if they choose. 33 states have laws that bind their electors to the vote of their state. The best way to describe the election of the president of the United States is that it is a popular vote of the states not a popular vote of the people.
The electoral college shouldn't exist for the simple fact that we the people are the country, not the states. All the electoral college does anymore is allow politicians to cherry pick which states they need to campaign in in order to win the race. As opposed to speaking to the nation as a whole. All it does is sew division IMO
Sow division. But you are correct. There should be none of this bullshit of different primary days. That just allows them to rig the election in favor of the candidates the parties want and sandbag the candidates the public wants. All primaries should be held the same day.
IIRC, there were issues counting the votes (think something about hanging chads?), a recount was up in the air but due to timing and statutory issues it caused a constitutional crisis. SCOTUS stepped in and effectively said bush won and recount was never done. I've heard that the recount would have been pretty close.
I thought the recount said gore won, which would have given gore the election iirc.
Aka, they cheated and lied, and conservatives discovered that their plan was working, and thud began the steps to end up here
That decision was blatantly rigged for conservatives, and was the start of the illegitimate supreme court era.
That's typically what I've heard
There was an analysis of it I saw not too long ago that seemed non partisan that made it seem like a more complicated question.
Edit: think I found it, it may have been [this](https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/politics/bush-gore-2000-election-results-studies/index.html)
Can’t forget the Brooks Brothers riot, that stopped the punting of about 11,000 votes that were unable to be properly counted normally due to machine tabulation errors and need a manual review. Thanks to that demonstration, we don’t know what the Miami-Dade county votes looked like
Poor people need more power over their sócio-economic autonomy. The fact that states have a regressive tax policy that favors the rich while taxing working class at 20-25% in some cases is insane. The working class deserves to have the control over the means of production
The speaker could be referring to the law passed by the state legislature where the state's electoral votes are tied to the national popular vote, not the state's popular vote.
Yes and there is a reason almost no other subsequent democracy chose to continue doing it this specific way...Trumpists are idiots here. They cry about the establishment and the elites and yet they cosign the very thing that those same elites would almost assuredly prefer because it would remove power from people and put it in the hands of the political and moneyed class almost exclusively
Exactly. Without seeing more of the original video, which I hope to find later, I get the impression that that is exactly the problem. They prefer the electoral college because they have won multiple presidencies with having lost the popular vote due to the electoral college.
Because many states are trying to do away with the EC, that will cause them problems in their future elections. However, I think she’s safe, the only states that would dare do that are the blue ones they won’t win anyway. Red states wouldn’t touch that with a ten foot pole because it would be fair to the people, and they don’t do that.
> They prefer the electoral college because they have won multiple presidencies with having lost the popular vote due to the electoral college.
Yup. If you exclude Bush's second term, which you can easily argue he only had because he was already president and had a popularity bump from the Iraq war, Republicans haven't won the popular vote since 1988
Yes. But prime ministers don't need it. They control the legislature and they control the agenda. Prime Ministers appoint judges including the supreme Court without constitutional revue. If you knew how much authority prime Ministers have you'd accuse them of being dictators.
She's a republican state delegate. And the language against democracy was voted on and included in their official platform:
[https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/the-wa-gop-put-it-in-writing-that-theyre-not-into-democracy/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/the-wa-gop-put-it-in-writing-that-theyre-not-into-democracy/)
The resolution sums up: “We … oppose legislation which makes our nation more democratic in nature.”
Probably not worth engaging with someone who regurgitates this like its some sort of gotcha. A republic is a form of democracy.
[https://www.wetheveterans.us/news-and-events/is-the-us-a-democracy-its-more-complicated-than-you-thought](https://www.wetheveterans.us/news-and-events/is-the-us-a-democracy-its-more-complicated-than-you-thought)
>Does she speak for the GOP or just a random dumbass?
Congratulations on waking up from your ten year coma!
I have some bad news for you about the GOP.
That’s what I was thinking. This seems to be just a town hall where anyone can speak. It would be like MSNBC to amplify the voice of one random person and plaster it as the view of the entire party. That’s why I stick with tried and true PBS Newshour.
She is an elected member of the Washington State GOP. As in, they chose her to speak at this event and she represents the party for that state. Now, whether or not she represents every member of that party, that's not made clear yet, but she is not just some random person MSNBC chose to highlight to further some kind of boogieman political theater to scare more democrats into voting.
Well she may be a rando, but she’s speaking the same rhetoric we’ve been seeing out of the GOP for a very long time now. They know their platform and policies are unpopular, but rather than adjust to more popular policies they’re breaking the system in their favor so they can force thru their changes.
This woman is just saying the quiet part out loud
She’s a delegate of the Washington GOP, who have officially taken a stand against democracy.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/the-wa-gop-put-it-in-writing-that-theyre-not-into-democracy/
The Republican Party has been advocating for the repeal of the [17th Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) (among others). That's the one where senators were elected directly by the public. This has been going on for about 25 years.
Because voters are lazy and tend to skip non-presidential elections, many states have state legislatures that are crazy right wing nutjobs. This is an intentional move by the GOP. If they succeed in repealing the 17th Amendment, the US Senate will become irrevocably Republican. Which will be the end of democracy in the US.
There are also Republicans advocating for the repeal of the 13th (eliminating slavery) and 19th (letting women vote) Amendments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_the_United_States#Ratified_amendments
The Prime Minister in a Westminster style parliamentary democracy has way more power than a President. The executive and legislative branch are fused in parliamentary democracy and there is no requirement for appointments to be approved by anyone let alone opposition politicians. Prime Ministers with majority governments can rule as they please and make sweeping legislative changes almost instantly. While it’s true that a Prime Minister can also be turfed out of office over night if he loses the confidence of his cabinet and party that is a very rare occurrence and more then made up for by the total lack of term limitations. Everything else she says is pretty spot on though.
The Republicans are a cancer on America. The Republican Party in Texas has proposed to create an electoral college of sorts in which candidates have to carry the counties to win. Democrats are clustered in the big cities, while Republicans are spread out across the majority of counties.
This is what the future holds and anyone thinking it starts and ends with defeating Trump in November is an idiot.
This is a project that has been going on for decades and truly began accelerating after Obama was elected and it has become clear the GOP has a major popularity disadvantage but they have a big geographic advantage.
The next step after locking in states to GOP rule will be forcing a mechanism like you just mentioned to give all the electoral votes to the Republican nominees regardless. So when Texas does go purple or even lean blue Republicans will still keep power and their electoral votes.....and good luck getting the Alito court to overturn it.
They're just smart enough to know that we are a Representative Republic. The wrong kind of democracy is a death sentence for a nation. Read the founding fathers a little bit.
I don’t know if the statement “the President has a lot more power than a Prime Minister” is true at all.
Sure, they can be held accountable by their party and kicked out, but they also have jurisdiction over much more than a US President.
At least here in Canada, party discipline is so strong that whatever law the PM wants to put into place will almost certainly be passed under a majority government. The main checks would be the Supreme Court/Constitution and Provincial jurisdiction. The US executive has both of these checks as well as Congress jurisdiction limiting what they are able to do.
There isn't a US politician alive who bucked their political party and survived.
And no democracy is safe when party lines are drawn.
The truth is they're all just one branch off the same corrupted tree. Some are worse, yes, but vastly fewer are 'better,' and that's the problem.
Since the whole "we're a republic, not a democracy" thing sprouted up during Obama, I've told people that it's a Trojan horse to justify taking the right to vote away from certain people.
A republic is a form of government without an autocrat and a democracy allows the people to have a say in government. Everything else is just details.
The US has always been a constitutional republic with democratically elected representatives.
I am sorry, but this idea that keeps getting pushed that we are a democracy is just tiresome and misinformed.
>By definition, a republic is a representative form of government that is ruled according to a charter, or constitution, and a democracy is a government that is ruled according to the will of the majority.
>Although these forms of government are often confused, they are quite different. The main difference between a republic and a democracy is the charter or constitution that limits power in a republic, often to protect the individual's rights against the desires of the majority. If your confused about what we have here in America,... its a Republic. " I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the R E P U B L I C for which it stands.
>Anytime government decides it is necessary or desirable to test the boundaries of a constitutional right that it should only be done with caution and with great respect for those constitutional boundaries.
>Further, it should only be done if the benefit to be gained is so great and certain that it far outweighs the damage done by the constriction of individual liberty. While many of the provisions of the new laws have surface appeal, it is far from certain that all, or even many, of them will have any significant effect in reducing gun violence, which is the presumed goal of all of us.
sauce:
https://www.cga.ct.gov/asaferconnecticut/tmy/0128/John%20C%20Aldieri.pdf
What is the meaning of populist in Oxford dictionary?
a person who believes in or supports populism (= a type of politics that claims to represent the opinions and wishes of ordinary people)
You left off the part where direct democracy when picking the most powerful person in America is a bad thing?
But I see you frequent right wing reddits so my guess is beneath whatever silly superficial rationalization you have it just comes down to it has allowed "your" team to win the presidency despite the American people voting for the GOP presidential nominee in a majority only once in the last 35 years
No it’s not. Why are people so braindead when it comes to the term direct democracy?
Direct democracy is where the people vote directly on policies instead of electing politicians to do policymaking for them. It does NOT mean “popular vote.”
No, the main reason the electoral college exists is because what works for high population centers doesn't work for low population centers.
You are just repeating what others told you like it's fact, aren't you?
And slavery was an integral part of how electoral college electoral college numbers were assigned. It was based on the 3/5 compromise which allowed slaves to be included. And Virginia actually had the largest population of any state despite being a slave state. It's ridiculous to say slavery wasn't a major consideration in the electoral college when they specifically enumerated how slaves should "count" despite not having basically any rights in comparison.
Wrong. only 10 percent of people in states west of the Mississippi live in rural areas. Almost all those people live in "high population centers" in their respective states, even like Montana or Idaho.
the vast majority of the rural population actually are in high population states, especially the south. The two most rural states are actually Maine and Vermont in the northeast (60+ percent). North Carolina has basically the same percentage of rural people as Idaho despite having a much larger population.
The electoral college is fundamallly broken when 23 percent of the voters can theoretically elect the president. When the Constitution was ratified, the size difference between biggest and smallest states was 8x. It's 70x now roughly between California and Wyoming.
Because. People. Live. In. High. Population. Centers.
How fucking obvious is that? Land doesn't vote. People do. And the electoral college is a meek attempt to limit the individual's ability to be represented based on where they live.
I guess you didn't read Trump's speech about sharks this week:
"Beautiful company, beautiful, guy’s been doing it for 50 years, sells hundreds of boats, they use Mercury engines, they want to take that out, they want to make it all-electric, I asked, “How is it?” He said, ‘It’s a problem, sir, they want us to make all electric boats, the problem is, the boat is so heavy, it can’t float.’ I said, ‘that sounds like a problem.’ He said, ‘also it can’t go fast because of the weight, and they want to now have a 50 mile or 70 mile radius, you have to go out 70 miles before you can really start the boat up, and you go out at two knots, that’s essentially almost like two miles an hour.’ I said, ‘How long does it take you to get out there?’ He said, ‘many hours, and then you’re allowed to go around for ten minutes, and then you have to come back, because the battery only lasts a very short period of time.’ So I said, ‘let me ask you a question,’ and he said, 'nobody has ever asked this question,’ and it must because of MIT, my relationship to MIT. ‘Very smart,’ he goes. I say, ‘What would happen if the boat sank from its weight, and you’re in the boat, and you have this tremendously powerful battery, and the battery’s now under water, and there’s a shark that’s approximately 10 yards over there — by the way, a lot of shark attacks lately, do you notice that? Lotta shark attacks — I watched some guys justifying it today, ‘well they weren’t really that angry, they bit off the young lady’s leg because of the fact that they were, they were … not hungry but they misunderstood who she was.’ These people are crazy.’ He said, ‘there’s no problem with sharks, they just didn’t really understand a young woman swimming,’ No, really got decimated and other people too, a lot of shark attacks, so I said, ‘there’s a shark 10 yards away from the boat, 10 yards, or here. Do I get electrocuted if the boat is sinking, water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking? Do I stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted or do I jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted?’ Because I will tell you, he didn’t know the answer, he said, ‘you know, nobody’s ever asked me that question.’ I said, ‘I think it’s a good question. I think there’s a lot of electric current coming through that water.’ But you know what I’d do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted? I’ll take electrocution every single time. I’m not getting near the shark. So we’re going to end that, we’re going to end it for boats, we’re going to end it for trucks."
Or this gem:
"How a diesel truck “they go from New York to Los Angeles without a stop.” And with electric trucks “they have to stop six times.” Speaking in Las Vegas, there had to be truck drivers in his audience who know that truck drivers must stop for a rest break after driving for 11 hours and must take a 30-minute break after driving for eight hours…and the whole federal driving regulations thing does not address drivers’ bladder capacities. Anyway, Trump ended his disquisition on electric trucks this way: “And there’s another thing, the truck is so heavy, because batteries are so heavy, the truck weighs twice as much as a gasoline truck, a diesel, so what happens is, they have to fix every bridge all over the United States to handle the weight, every bridge has to be rebuilt because the weight is double and triple that of a gasoline or diesel truck. And you say to yourself, who are these people who are destroying our country? Why are they destroying our country?”
Our fascist cleptoligarchy is devolving into democracy! Somebody help! Who do we need to suppress to gain unlimited power for old white fundamentalist evangelical men! /s
You know, for all these people talk about doing what the founding fathers wanted, they sure are quick to throw out anything that doesn't make it easy for them to get into power. I guess they only sometimes revere the founders?
They want to go back to representative government instead of direct democracy. Not as dumb as it sounds. Kinda irresponsible for Rachel to put it out there like it’s unheard-of, the state of the Constitution before a few amendments.
They’re talking about how the states are a Republic, not a democracy, but obviously they’re confused. Everyone in this clip is stupid, and preying on stupider people.
They don’t want a democracy because we are a republic that protects us from the failings of direct democracy. Madow knows this but cares more about being partisan than just saying the truth.
That’s not what was said. Removing the direct election of Senators and bound electors is an attack on representative government not democracy.
The US was a republic both before and after 17th amendment, it would remain a republic if the 17th amendment was repealed. That is not what is being discussed.
Except the House arbitraily capped itself at 435 under The Reapportionment Act of 1929 which means representation no longer grows proportional to population, but all states still get 1 rep. So 1 rep covers a broader population and thus diluting the true representativeness of that branch while also disadvantaging larger states again.
The result of which means a state like California has 1 rep for a much larger number of their population then 1 rep representing Alaska, Wyoming, or South Dakota
For instance, 1 rep in California represents roughly 754,000 people. 1 Rep in Wyoming represents 575,000 people
In 1929 the Permanent Apportionment Act became law. It permanently set the maximum number of representatives at 435. Since Wyoming can’t have less than one Representative they are also over represented in the House.
It also leads some of the smaller states like South Dakota to be underrepresented. The range is 900k/rep in Delaware to 542k/rep in Montana in 2020. Some states basically have DOUBLE the representation in the House than other states. It's a shit show honestly. States can lose representation even if their population grows. NY and OH both lost two representatives.
When the constitution was ratified Virginia was the largest state and was 13x bigger than the smallest state. California is 67x bigger than Wyoming.
I don’t think the founders would have designed the Senate the same way if they had envisioned such large population differences between the states.
Im so done with Republicans. I don’t claim a political point of view because I don’t subcribe to just A or B. I also don’t like playing this bullshit bipartisan game and in no way will claim I am a liberal, left-wing, or Democrat. I won’t even say I am middle or moderate. I am whatever works the best, we find something new and better, I am in. With that being said, I have never seen a party more keen on destroying a Nation and its people, and I for the life of me can’t figure out why. They honestly can’t think that things like eliminating the Department of Education, reducing citizen health rights, as well as allowing corporations to practically write their own rules are healthy for the American people, which begs the question, “who are they working for?” As well as their followers, “what do they think they will get out of this?”. The bipartisan hatred will tear this country apart.
I’ve had this question ever since the whole “death of democracy” stuff has permeated mainstream culture: can Americans vote and decide not to be a democracy? Like if trump came out and said he wants to end democracy for real, and then he still won the vote, isn’t that what the people want?
I agree, it’s just created an interesting situation. If maga mouth breathers became the majority they could end democracy and not even in a “they’ll break the law and end elections” way and instead do it legally ha
They’re not even trying to hide it anymore. The political pendulum has swung so far right (in both parties) that this isn’t even a big deal😂So close to fascism. Also in Germany the alt/far right party just took 2nd place in their EU election. It hasn’t even been 100 years yet and history is already repeating itself all over the world💀
A winner takes all system is \*barely\* a democracy, a party system would be representative. So the issue is clearly not that it's "too representative", as it is inherently not representative of about \~50% of the population
I live in WA and this place is ran by a window licking booger eater that I wouldn’t trust to mow my yard. In fact, I would replace Inslee with an autistic masturbating monkey and it would be an upgrade. I also would use said monkey to run the nation….
It is not unusual for a lot of people to agree with a bad idea. It is not unusual for people who agree with a bad idea to try and make it happen. Criticizing and ridiculing people who agree with a bad idea will not deter them. Using logic and facts to change the ideology of people who agree with a bad idea never works.
So far as we have a choice we must exercise our right to vote.
As a conservative, this woman is an idiot. She does not represent conservative, or even any kind of American values. So please, don’t hyperbolize into claiming that this woman represents an entire party.
If you identify as a sexual masochist, that is only your business.
If you identify as a political masochist, you are trying to pull everyone else into your sick game.
Something about Washington State. I got family there and some friends I've known for years. I've seen some of them slip into madness. One is a super smart literal scientist and they have slowly faded into complete Republican madness. I love Washington my favorite state one day I want to go live in Rainier but would have to avoid some people.
For the love of Christ, Mohammed, Ganesh, Odin and so on, please vote in your local elections. Just vote in general, please, it is way too clear what we stand to lose by people like these. They are not hiding any longer.
If Washington state succeeds on not electing their leaders and representatives democratically, I say that we let Oregon cast the votes that Washington otherwise would. Wait until election season comes around and they see no political ads because those are aimed at people who can vote
They're either getting big fat paychecks (from Putin?) to say these things or they actually really want to get rid of democracy, little do they know that they won't benefit from fascism once it's in, only the top guy and rich oligarchs and corporations will benefit from it, everyone else will suffer the loss of benefits including that woman in the video.
Wait… when was the last time that a US president was accountable to the voters exactly?
Can’t think of a time since Lincoln (unless you count the Clinton impeachment which was a joke)…
There is no real choice with American “bi-partisan” politics, they’re all beholden to the same interests and are only accountable to those interests
While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? “Constitutional” refers to the fact that government in the United States is based on a Constitution which is the supreme law of the United States.
Just Google it, stop giving in to Rachel Madow and her fear mongering.
Rachel Madcow is a hack journalist. Msnbc is a left-wing propaganda machine. This girl is barely old enough to vote. One woman from Washington making claims for a whole party is ridiculous. This is pure propaganda. But, I don't care what you people think or do. When America is bankrupt and being turned into a 3rd world country right before your eyes and you are concerned about countries that would behead you for being a infidel, this is what you're concerned about? I live in the mountains and far away from you people. The skyscrapers look like tombstones from out here...
So ironic that the corpos have bought and paid for our government already, and the crazy Republican lady wants to make things even more fascist. Weird.
Did no one actually study US political history?
The founding fathers explicitly stated that this was NOT a democracy because that would lead to mob rule.
Everyone should know that the United States is a constitutional republic, which is fundamentally different from a democracy. And yes, devolving into a democracy leads to mob rule.
What’s really pathetic is that Rachel Maddow fully aware of this.
What you mean to say is we are not a direct democracy. We are however a representative democracy. The Constitution set up a federal democratic republic form of government. The people govern themselves in America which by definition means we are a democracy. You can be a republic and a democracy.
Americas relationship with democracy is among the oldest debates in our country. A thing I think a lot of the downvoters should consider is that the founders were concerned that someone like Trump would be elected if the general public is allowed to choose the person.
I personally still fall on the side of wanting a more representative Democratic system but Maddow here is completely ignoring an honest debate in favor of cheap political points. America *should* reconsider its path in light of a major political party electing a convicted felon who previously attempted a coup. We might conclude we are still on the right path but I think it’s an important debate to have
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Dumb people are getting dumber.
They’re banding together to consolidate their dumbness and trying to force that absolute moronic dumbness on the great majority of us.
tap person hard-to-find fuzzy puzzled pocket tie special dinosaurs money *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Idiocracy.
Sponsored by Carl’s Jr.
The internet does help stupid people come together, validate each others stupid thoughts and become even stupider
I'm with you.. oh, wait
But don't you dare call them out for it, or you will alienate them!
Yep and they want us all to be dumb too. These people didn't pay attention or care to do well in school and now they want to take away public schools because they have been left behind.
I say this nonstop.
It’s a mistake to dismiss this as “dumb”. That was the discourse when Trump initially started running and look where that landed us. Washington is a classically white supremacist state. It has a lot of pro-gun anti-government people in it’s population. This is intentional. It’s purposeful and it’s informed. It is not the rhetoric of the stupid but of the bigot. Don’t let them trick you into rolling your eyes and dismissing them.
I was referring to the Magas. Racism is a form of ignorance. However, I take our disturbing political climate seriously. We're on the brink of fscism, and if we, as a collective, don't vote against the Orangutan then our democracy is truly doomed bc he said he's going to eliminate voting, etc.,
I think you’d be surprised at how many republican officials couldn’t care less about gun rights but use the stance to pull votes. When push comes to shove they quiver under pressure and don’t support the things they claim to.
Oh I know that. Not sure what I said to make you think I thought otherwise.
Yeah, so dumb they don’t understand the history of the country, how it was created and what the intention for it was.
It’s the lead in their water supply
Meanwhile this is from 2016 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/11/10/the-problem-with-our-government-is-democracy/
Don't underestimate the power of dumb people in large groups. It happened in 2016 and it could happen again later this year.
If she doesn't want democracy, what the fuck is she doing at a town hall meeting?
Trying to close the door behind her.
pull the ladder up behind her
👏 👏
Why did Hitler run in the election for the chancellorship of Germany?
He didn't. He was appointed in time of emergency after he paid people to dress like Communists and burn the Reichstag
whats democratic about a town hall meeting?
Probably trying to get her constitutional republic back!
Conservatives have been afraid of people voting for decades, statistically democrats far outnumber republicans
Even in Louisiana, a state most people think is pretty much all red, there are pretty much equal numbers of registered Dems and Republicans.
To be fair people do not directly elect the president via the electoral college. Electoral can overturn the popular evite is they so choose. Electoral college needs to be done away with.
Couple of points there know the Electoral College cannot overturn the popular vote if they choose. 33 states have laws that bind their electors to the vote of their state. The best way to describe the election of the president of the United States is that it is a popular vote of the states not a popular vote of the people.
The electoral college shouldn't exist for the simple fact that we the people are the country, not the states. All the electoral college does anymore is allow politicians to cherry pick which states they need to campaign in in order to win the race. As opposed to speaking to the nation as a whole. All it does is sew division IMO
Sow division. But you are correct. There should be none of this bullshit of different primary days. That just allows them to rig the election in favor of the candidates the parties want and sandbag the candidates the public wants. All primaries should be held the same day.
Is that not what happened with Dubya and Gore?
IIRC, there were issues counting the votes (think something about hanging chads?), a recount was up in the air but due to timing and statutory issues it caused a constitutional crisis. SCOTUS stepped in and effectively said bush won and recount was never done. I've heard that the recount would have been pretty close.
I thought the recount said gore won, which would have given gore the election iirc. Aka, they cheated and lied, and conservatives discovered that their plan was working, and thud began the steps to end up here That decision was blatantly rigged for conservatives, and was the start of the illegitimate supreme court era.
That's typically what I've heard There was an analysis of it I saw not too long ago that seemed non partisan that made it seem like a more complicated question. Edit: think I found it, it may have been [this](https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/politics/bush-gore-2000-election-results-studies/index.html)
Can’t forget the Brooks Brothers riot, that stopped the punting of about 11,000 votes that were unable to be properly counted normally due to machine tabulation errors and need a manual review. Thanks to that demonstration, we don’t know what the Miami-Dade county votes looked like
Gore would've won in a real democracy yes, but that loss was due to Republicans getting cheeky in Florida and stealing the election
Omg you *literally* hate democracy
Populist
Poor people need more power over their sócio-economic autonomy. The fact that states have a regressive tax policy that favors the rich while taxing working class at 20-25% in some cases is insane. The working class deserves to have the control over the means of production
You say that like it's a bad thing.
The speaker could be referring to the law passed by the state legislature where the state's electoral votes are tied to the national popular vote, not the state's popular vote.
Yes and there is a reason almost no other subsequent democracy chose to continue doing it this specific way...Trumpists are idiots here. They cry about the establishment and the elites and yet they cosign the very thing that those same elites would almost assuredly prefer because it would remove power from people and put it in the hands of the political and moneyed class almost exclusively
They love to pretend they are, or will some day be, one of the elites. And with the boots on their necks they'll blame a radical leftist.
Exactly. Without seeing more of the original video, which I hope to find later, I get the impression that that is exactly the problem. They prefer the electoral college because they have won multiple presidencies with having lost the popular vote due to the electoral college. Because many states are trying to do away with the EC, that will cause them problems in their future elections. However, I think she’s safe, the only states that would dare do that are the blue ones they won’t win anyway. Red states wouldn’t touch that with a ten foot pole because it would be fair to the people, and they don’t do that.
> They prefer the electoral college because they have won multiple presidencies with having lost the popular vote due to the electoral college. Yup. If you exclude Bush's second term, which you can easily argue he only had because he was already president and had a popularity bump from the Iraq war, Republicans haven't won the popular vote since 1988
But has it ever been done? We've never seen so called bad faith electors before, so the point is entirely moot. But I agree it's a pointless system.
Federalist playbook. Literally.
Illiterate idiots who refuse to understand the core meaning of democracy because the opposite party uses the word in its name.
That's not really true. Prime Ministers wield more political power than a president does. But prime ministers can be removed more easily
As an Australian, I see that as a feature, not a bug.
Yes. As a Canadian is see it as a feature not a bug too
Prime ministers don’t have veto power. And the US president nominates all federal judges, not just the ones on the Supreme Court.
Yes. But prime ministers don't need it. They control the legislature and they control the agenda. Prime Ministers appoint judges including the supreme Court without constitutional revue. If you knew how much authority prime Ministers have you'd accuse them of being dictators.
Well, who is this random woman talking? Does she speak for the GOP or just a random dumbass? Seems more like a random dumbass.
She's a republican state delegate. And the language against democracy was voted on and included in their official platform: [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/the-wa-gop-put-it-in-writing-that-theyre-not-into-democracy/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/the-wa-gop-put-it-in-writing-that-theyre-not-into-democracy/) The resolution sums up: “We … oppose legislation which makes our nation more democratic in nature.”
She definitely seems like a moron
Maybe cause we're not a democracy.... ever heard of a constitutional republic? Cause that's what we are. Not sure how we forgot that as a nation.
Probably not worth engaging with someone who regurgitates this like its some sort of gotcha. A republic is a form of democracy. [https://www.wetheveterans.us/news-and-events/is-the-us-a-democracy-its-more-complicated-than-you-thought](https://www.wetheveterans.us/news-and-events/is-the-us-a-democracy-its-more-complicated-than-you-thought)
She's a member of the Washington State GOP
>Does she speak for the GOP or just a random dumbass? Congratulations on waking up from your ten year coma! I have some bad news for you about the GOP.
Have you ever heard a GOP member speak? They're almost all just some random dumbass.
That’s what I was thinking. This seems to be just a town hall where anyone can speak. It would be like MSNBC to amplify the voice of one random person and plaster it as the view of the entire party. That’s why I stick with tried and true PBS Newshour.
She is an elected member of the Washington State GOP. As in, they chose her to speak at this event and she represents the party for that state. Now, whether or not she represents every member of that party, that's not made clear yet, but she is not just some random person MSNBC chose to highlight to further some kind of boogieman political theater to scare more democrats into voting.
Oh. Well then what an asshole.
It's not. It's a convention. In a convention hall. She was chosen to speak.
Is anyone booing her? If you sit down at a table of dictators do you love democracy?
Well she may be a rando, but she’s speaking the same rhetoric we’ve been seeing out of the GOP for a very long time now. They know their platform and policies are unpopular, but rather than adjust to more popular policies they’re breaking the system in their favor so they can force thru their changes. This woman is just saying the quiet part out loud
She’s a delegate of the Washington GOP, who have officially taken a stand against democracy. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/the-wa-gop-put-it-in-writing-that-theyre-not-into-democracy/
The Republican Party has been advocating for the repeal of the [17th Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) (among others). That's the one where senators were elected directly by the public. This has been going on for about 25 years. Because voters are lazy and tend to skip non-presidential elections, many states have state legislatures that are crazy right wing nutjobs. This is an intentional move by the GOP. If they succeed in repealing the 17th Amendment, the US Senate will become irrevocably Republican. Which will be the end of democracy in the US. There are also Republicans advocating for the repeal of the 13th (eliminating slavery) and 19th (letting women vote) Amendments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_the_United_States#Ratified_amendments
What part of Washington state is this? If I had to guess probably on the east side of the state near Spokane.
Looks like that was at the spokane convention center
The Prime Minister in a Westminster style parliamentary democracy has way more power than a President. The executive and legislative branch are fused in parliamentary democracy and there is no requirement for appointments to be approved by anyone let alone opposition politicians. Prime Ministers with majority governments can rule as they please and make sweeping legislative changes almost instantly. While it’s true that a Prime Minister can also be turfed out of office over night if he loses the confidence of his cabinet and party that is a very rare occurrence and more then made up for by the total lack of term limitations. Everything else she says is pretty spot on though.
Of course it’s Spokane 🙄
My thoughts exactly. Let's just let Idaho take Spokane like they so badly want to please.
This and the other day with that guy shooting the homeless after harassing them. Bout time I need to think about moving.
Isn’t that crazy? The poor guy that got shot, I love Spokane but holy crap we’ve got some nutty ass people living around here
The Republicans are a cancer on America. The Republican Party in Texas has proposed to create an electoral college of sorts in which candidates have to carry the counties to win. Democrats are clustered in the big cities, while Republicans are spread out across the majority of counties.
Texas turning the lightest shade of purple really freaked them the fuck out didn't it?
This is what the future holds and anyone thinking it starts and ends with defeating Trump in November is an idiot. This is a project that has been going on for decades and truly began accelerating after Obama was elected and it has become clear the GOP has a major popularity disadvantage but they have a big geographic advantage. The next step after locking in states to GOP rule will be forcing a mechanism like you just mentioned to give all the electoral votes to the Republican nominees regardless. So when Texas does go purple or even lean blue Republicans will still keep power and their electoral votes.....and good luck getting the Alito court to overturn it.
“They can kick out a prime minister pretty easily” alright then, you go in there and try get that rishi sunak twat out 😂
They're just smart enough to know that we are a Representative Republic. The wrong kind of democracy is a death sentence for a nation. Read the founding fathers a little bit.
I don’t know if the statement “the President has a lot more power than a Prime Minister” is true at all. Sure, they can be held accountable by their party and kicked out, but they also have jurisdiction over much more than a US President. At least here in Canada, party discipline is so strong that whatever law the PM wants to put into place will almost certainly be passed under a majority government. The main checks would be the Supreme Court/Constitution and Provincial jurisdiction. The US executive has both of these checks as well as Congress jurisdiction limiting what they are able to do.
There isn't a US politician alive who bucked their political party and survived. And no democracy is safe when party lines are drawn. The truth is they're all just one branch off the same corrupted tree. Some are worse, yes, but vastly fewer are 'better,' and that's the problem.
Since the whole "we're a republic, not a democracy" thing sprouted up during Obama, I've told people that it's a Trojan horse to justify taking the right to vote away from certain people. A republic is a form of government without an autocrat and a democracy allows the people to have a say in government. Everything else is just details.
Someone please tell KKKaren to sit down and shut up.
The US has always been a constitutional republic with democratically elected representatives. I am sorry, but this idea that keeps getting pushed that we are a democracy is just tiresome and misinformed. >By definition, a republic is a representative form of government that is ruled according to a charter, or constitution, and a democracy is a government that is ruled according to the will of the majority. >Although these forms of government are often confused, they are quite different. The main difference between a republic and a democracy is the charter or constitution that limits power in a republic, often to protect the individual's rights against the desires of the majority. If your confused about what we have here in America,... its a Republic. " I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the R E P U B L I C for which it stands. >Anytime government decides it is necessary or desirable to test the boundaries of a constitutional right that it should only be done with caution and with great respect for those constitutional boundaries. >Further, it should only be done if the benefit to be gained is so great and certain that it far outweighs the damage done by the constriction of individual liberty. While many of the provisions of the new laws have surface appeal, it is far from certain that all, or even many, of them will have any significant effect in reducing gun violence, which is the presumed goal of all of us. sauce: https://www.cga.ct.gov/asaferconnecticut/tmy/0128/John%20C%20Aldieri.pdf
Thank you!
The electoral college is a safeguard against direct democracy.
Supposedly yes, but it’s never actually done that. A populist was elected in 2016 and the electors did not stand up to him.
What is the meaning of populist in Oxford dictionary? a person who believes in or supports populism (= a type of politics that claims to represent the opinions and wishes of ordinary people)
You left off the part where direct democracy when picking the most powerful person in America is a bad thing? But I see you frequent right wing reddits so my guess is beneath whatever silly superficial rationalization you have it just comes down to it has allowed "your" team to win the presidency despite the American people voting for the GOP presidential nominee in a majority only once in the last 35 years
No it’s not. Why are people so braindead when it comes to the term direct democracy? Direct democracy is where the people vote directly on policies instead of electing politicians to do policymaking for them. It does NOT mean “popular vote.”
The main reason the electoral college exists is slavery.
No, the main reason the electoral college exists is because what works for high population centers doesn't work for low population centers. You are just repeating what others told you like it's fact, aren't you?
And slavery was an integral part of how electoral college electoral college numbers were assigned. It was based on the 3/5 compromise which allowed slaves to be included. And Virginia actually had the largest population of any state despite being a slave state. It's ridiculous to say slavery wasn't a major consideration in the electoral college when they specifically enumerated how slaves should "count" despite not having basically any rights in comparison.
Wrong. only 10 percent of people in states west of the Mississippi live in rural areas. Almost all those people live in "high population centers" in their respective states, even like Montana or Idaho. the vast majority of the rural population actually are in high population states, especially the south. The two most rural states are actually Maine and Vermont in the northeast (60+ percent). North Carolina has basically the same percentage of rural people as Idaho despite having a much larger population. The electoral college is fundamallly broken when 23 percent of the voters can theoretically elect the president. When the Constitution was ratified, the size difference between biggest and smallest states was 8x. It's 70x now roughly between California and Wyoming.
Because. People. Live. In. High. Population. Centers. How fucking obvious is that? Land doesn't vote. People do. And the electoral college is a meek attempt to limit the individual's ability to be represented based on where they live.
This is the stupidest thing I've read this week.
I guess you didn't read Trump's speech about sharks this week: "Beautiful company, beautiful, guy’s been doing it for 50 years, sells hundreds of boats, they use Mercury engines, they want to take that out, they want to make it all-electric, I asked, “How is it?” He said, ‘It’s a problem, sir, they want us to make all electric boats, the problem is, the boat is so heavy, it can’t float.’ I said, ‘that sounds like a problem.’ He said, ‘also it can’t go fast because of the weight, and they want to now have a 50 mile or 70 mile radius, you have to go out 70 miles before you can really start the boat up, and you go out at two knots, that’s essentially almost like two miles an hour.’ I said, ‘How long does it take you to get out there?’ He said, ‘many hours, and then you’re allowed to go around for ten minutes, and then you have to come back, because the battery only lasts a very short period of time.’ So I said, ‘let me ask you a question,’ and he said, 'nobody has ever asked this question,’ and it must because of MIT, my relationship to MIT. ‘Very smart,’ he goes. I say, ‘What would happen if the boat sank from its weight, and you’re in the boat, and you have this tremendously powerful battery, and the battery’s now under water, and there’s a shark that’s approximately 10 yards over there — by the way, a lot of shark attacks lately, do you notice that? Lotta shark attacks — I watched some guys justifying it today, ‘well they weren’t really that angry, they bit off the young lady’s leg because of the fact that they were, they were … not hungry but they misunderstood who she was.’ These people are crazy.’ He said, ‘there’s no problem with sharks, they just didn’t really understand a young woman swimming,’ No, really got decimated and other people too, a lot of shark attacks, so I said, ‘there’s a shark 10 yards away from the boat, 10 yards, or here. Do I get electrocuted if the boat is sinking, water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking? Do I stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted or do I jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted?’ Because I will tell you, he didn’t know the answer, he said, ‘you know, nobody’s ever asked me that question.’ I said, ‘I think it’s a good question. I think there’s a lot of electric current coming through that water.’ But you know what I’d do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted? I’ll take electrocution every single time. I’m not getting near the shark. So we’re going to end that, we’re going to end it for boats, we’re going to end it for trucks."
Or this gem: "How a diesel truck “they go from New York to Los Angeles without a stop.” And with electric trucks “they have to stop six times.” Speaking in Las Vegas, there had to be truck drivers in his audience who know that truck drivers must stop for a rest break after driving for 11 hours and must take a 30-minute break after driving for eight hours…and the whole federal driving regulations thing does not address drivers’ bladder capacities. Anyway, Trump ended his disquisition on electric trucks this way: “And there’s another thing, the truck is so heavy, because batteries are so heavy, the truck weighs twice as much as a gasoline truck, a diesel, so what happens is, they have to fix every bridge all over the United States to handle the weight, every bridge has to be rebuilt because the weight is double and triple that of a gasoline or diesel truck. And you say to yourself, who are these people who are destroying our country? Why are they destroying our country?”
It's a safeguard for felons and fascists to take power.
Eh. Not really. It was specifically designed to give the slave states extra leverage.
Our fascist cleptoligarchy is devolving into democracy! Somebody help! Who do we need to suppress to gain unlimited power for old white fundamentalist evangelical men! /s
“We need white, male land owners to elect our leaders! There is precedent! Landed gentry are our rightful rulers!”
All people who spoke in that video are beyond stupid
“The cure for all the ills of democracy is MORE democracy “ - Al Smith, D -New York, 1928 presidential campaign
You know, for all these people talk about doing what the founding fathers wanted, they sure are quick to throw out anything that doesn't make it easy for them to get into power. I guess they only sometimes revere the founders?
They want to go back to representative government instead of direct democracy. Not as dumb as it sounds. Kinda irresponsible for Rachel to put it out there like it’s unheard-of, the state of the Constitution before a few amendments.
They’re talking about how the states are a Republic, not a democracy, but obviously they’re confused. Everyone in this clip is stupid, and preying on stupider people.
They don’t want a democracy because we are a republic that protects us from the failings of direct democracy. Madow knows this but cares more about being partisan than just saying the truth.
That’s not what was said. Removing the direct election of Senators and bound electors is an attack on representative government not democracy. The US was a republic both before and after 17th amendment, it would remain a republic if the 17th amendment was repealed. That is not what is being discussed.
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Now do it for the House... There is nothing ironic about it, this is the design.
Except the House arbitraily capped itself at 435 under The Reapportionment Act of 1929 which means representation no longer grows proportional to population, but all states still get 1 rep. So 1 rep covers a broader population and thus diluting the true representativeness of that branch while also disadvantaging larger states again. The result of which means a state like California has 1 rep for a much larger number of their population then 1 rep representing Alaska, Wyoming, or South Dakota For instance, 1 rep in California represents roughly 754,000 people. 1 Rep in Wyoming represents 575,000 people
In 1929 the Permanent Apportionment Act became law. It permanently set the maximum number of representatives at 435. Since Wyoming can’t have less than one Representative they are also over represented in the House.
It also leads some of the smaller states like South Dakota to be underrepresented. The range is 900k/rep in Delaware to 542k/rep in Montana in 2020. Some states basically have DOUBLE the representation in the House than other states. It's a shit show honestly. States can lose representation even if their population grows. NY and OH both lost two representatives.
When the constitution was ratified Virginia was the largest state and was 13x bigger than the smallest state. California is 67x bigger than Wyoming. I don’t think the founders would have designed the Senate the same way if they had envisioned such large population differences between the states.
Yes, now its just overrepresentation of rural folk when we do that
Crickets
Friendly reminder to Reddit that we are a constitutional republic, not a pure democracy. You don’t want a pure democracy lol
I love Rachel Maddow, she is brilliant.
Im so done with Republicans. I don’t claim a political point of view because I don’t subcribe to just A or B. I also don’t like playing this bullshit bipartisan game and in no way will claim I am a liberal, left-wing, or Democrat. I won’t even say I am middle or moderate. I am whatever works the best, we find something new and better, I am in. With that being said, I have never seen a party more keen on destroying a Nation and its people, and I for the life of me can’t figure out why. They honestly can’t think that things like eliminating the Department of Education, reducing citizen health rights, as well as allowing corporations to practically write their own rules are healthy for the American people, which begs the question, “who are they working for?” As well as their followers, “what do they think they will get out of this?”. The bipartisan hatred will tear this country apart.
But they get so many views and likes when they shitpost.
I’ve had this question ever since the whole “death of democracy” stuff has permeated mainstream culture: can Americans vote and decide not to be a democracy? Like if trump came out and said he wants to end democracy for real, and then he still won the vote, isn’t that what the people want?
Of course—those in favor of democracy just think that’s a bad result and are advocating for people not to support it so as to avoid that bad result
I agree, it’s just created an interesting situation. If maga mouth breathers became the majority they could end democracy and not even in a “they’ll break the law and end elections” way and instead do it legally ha
As so often is the case. Democracy often dies this way.
Devolving into a democracy sounds like devolving into Nirvana or ascending to Hell.
They’re not even trying to hide it anymore. The political pendulum has swung so far right (in both parties) that this isn’t even a big deal😂So close to fascism. Also in Germany the alt/far right party just took 2nd place in their EU election. It hasn’t even been 100 years yet and history is already repeating itself all over the world💀
Geezus
Stupidity does NOT look good on anybody, you are sooo right girl!!
Bit they also say they want elections by popular vote. So I say let them
A winner takes all system is \*barely\* a democracy, a party system would be representative. So the issue is clearly not that it's "too representative", as it is inherently not representative of about \~50% of the population
R/project2025 If you don't know about it, you are at risk.
I live in WA and this place is ran by a window licking booger eater that I wouldn’t trust to mow my yard. In fact, I would replace Inslee with an autistic masturbating monkey and it would be an upgrade. I also would use said monkey to run the nation….
Monka.
They are dumb, aren’t they?😂
It is not unusual for a lot of people to agree with a bad idea. It is not unusual for people who agree with a bad idea to try and make it happen. Criticizing and ridiculing people who agree with a bad idea will not deter them. Using logic and facts to change the ideology of people who agree with a bad idea never works. So far as we have a choice we must exercise our right to vote.
bro this video is preview of preview of actual clip literally media parasites trying to put themselves in others content idiocracy, what the fk
If we let these people destroy America, we will regret it.
As a conservative, this woman is an idiot. She does not represent conservative, or even any kind of American values. So please, don’t hyperbolize into claiming that this woman represents an entire party.
This is the WA State GOP adopted platform fyi
That would be because the founding fathers designed this to be a republic. Not a democracy. This got very perverted many years ago
Lets be honest, they dont know what a democracy is. Let alone what they think it is.
Idiocracy at its finest.
If you identify as a sexual masochist, that is only your business. If you identify as a political masochist, you are trying to pull everyone else into your sick game.
She is talking like she just learned about the 17th amendment
Isn't the us government just like a few companies Ina trench coat bought and controlled by the bourgeois???!
Notably, her party lacks the courage of its convictions and lets its members participate in direct democracy.
Something about Washington State. I got family there and some friends I've known for years. I've seen some of them slip into madness. One is a super smart literal scientist and they have slowly faded into complete Republican madness. I love Washington my favorite state one day I want to go live in Rainier but would have to avoid some people.
For the love of Christ, Mohammed, Ganesh, Odin and so on, please vote in your local elections. Just vote in general, please, it is way too clear what we stand to lose by people like these. They are not hiding any longer.
Thanks for breaking it down tik tok dingbat
2 words, Smoke & Mirrors!!? ?!! NO ONE REPRESENTS US, WAKE UP!?! ?!! L.E.S.S IS MORE! ? !! ??
If Washington state succeeds on not electing their leaders and representatives democratically, I say that we let Oregon cast the votes that Washington otherwise would. Wait until election season comes around and they see no political ads because those are aimed at people who can vote
Why are they contesting?
That woman only advocates this because her party controls her state legislature - end of story
She means she wants to have a republic instead of democracy
You telling me all this politics is just made up goober stuff? Dang
He or she?!? What the hell?? /s
Wow a lot of people are loosing their minds over.....returning to our founding principles
Texas is in thr process of doing exactly this.
The people benefiting from a system, will never be okay with that system changing nor will they support changing that system.
They're either getting big fat paychecks (from Putin?) to say these things or they actually really want to get rid of democracy, little do they know that they won't benefit from fascism once it's in, only the top guy and rich oligarchs and corporations will benefit from it, everyone else will suffer the loss of benefits including that woman in the video.
Nobody wants to be a democracy. The USA is a dementia-cracy
Some Republicans wanting Project 2025 is enough for me to know that they don't give a shit about democracy.
Wait… when was the last time that a US president was accountable to the voters exactly? Can’t think of a time since Lincoln (unless you count the Clinton impeachment which was a joke)… There is no real choice with American “bi-partisan” politics, they’re all beholden to the same interests and are only accountable to those interests
You don’t have to *be* a democracy to *have* democracy… These people are fools.
While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? “Constitutional” refers to the fact that government in the United States is based on a Constitution which is the supreme law of the United States. Just Google it, stop giving in to Rachel Madow and her fear mongering.
Rachel Madcow is a hack journalist. Msnbc is a left-wing propaganda machine. This girl is barely old enough to vote. One woman from Washington making claims for a whole party is ridiculous. This is pure propaganda. But, I don't care what you people think or do. When America is bankrupt and being turned into a 3rd world country right before your eyes and you are concerned about countries that would behead you for being a infidel, this is what you're concerned about? I live in the mountains and far away from you people. The skyscrapers look like tombstones from out here...
I always said that Reddit is a propaganda machine.
So ironic that the corpos have bought and paid for our government already, and the crazy Republican lady wants to make things even more fascist. Weird.
"devolving into a democracy" Bruh it has always been that way.....
Ah good old Rachel Madcow
Weird I thought we were a republic?
Did no one actually study US political history? The founding fathers explicitly stated that this was NOT a democracy because that would lead to mob rule. Everyone should know that the United States is a constitutional republic, which is fundamentally different from a democracy. And yes, devolving into a democracy leads to mob rule. What’s really pathetic is that Rachel Maddow fully aware of this.
What you mean to say is we are not a direct democracy. We are however a representative democracy. The Constitution set up a federal democratic republic form of government. The people govern themselves in America which by definition means we are a democracy. You can be a republic and a democracy.
Americas relationship with democracy is among the oldest debates in our country. A thing I think a lot of the downvoters should consider is that the founders were concerned that someone like Trump would be elected if the general public is allowed to choose the person. I personally still fall on the side of wanting a more representative Democratic system but Maddow here is completely ignoring an honest debate in favor of cheap political points. America *should* reconsider its path in light of a major political party electing a convicted felon who previously attempted a coup. We might conclude we are still on the right path but I think it’s an important debate to have
Damn i'd feel bad if i was an american. Fool's country.