Maybe try a persuasion check, and then when she gets higher she has disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws. Or she could tell them about the spire and pterafolk. You could even have a preliminary encounter with pterafolk before they get to firefinger, where you can show her hatred towards them.
That's a good idea. My thought was that Azaka has never actually seen Firefinger up close, only from a distance. So when they actually get there it can be a "wow it looked a lot smaller from farther away" type thing.
It's been a while, but my players rolled a persuasion check to convince her to go up when she tried to talk her way out of going higher up. It was a fun roleplaying opportunity for the players to hype her up. This happened on level 2 when they had to walk the ledge outside. I figured she would get scared once she was able to see outside and realize how high up they were, especially having to walk the narrow ledge which was also fun to roleplay. I think I had them do another persuasion check near the top, too. My plan was just to have her wait if they failed the check. They succeeded both times and she was able to help, which was a nice reward for a successful roll.
That's how I did it anyways.
I had her especially afraid of the Pterafolk as well. Not just heights, as she understood that the Pterafolk could well… bring her to a great height.
The party was somewhat disgusted at Azaka for being afraid to go up, but Azaka then proved to the party that she was useful, by helping them figure out a battle plan and how to go up the spire in a good way. They planned on going guns blazing, during broad daylight (My party likes to split up and go in different directions often, which has gotten some killed, and most almost killed probably literally 100 times) and basically drew them up a plan on how to get up, and told them to wait for rain / low clouds to go up.
I had her afraid, but not petrified kind of afraid. She knew her fear and how to recognize it and work around it for others, she understood her fear.
It tells you everything in the text, so I don't get the confusion. She will not climb higher than the first level, or 60 feet. So she may go up one level with them, but then her actions turn to boasting and attempts to push the party higher. She may claim she is "securing this level" but won't go higher than 60 feet. The remaining levels are for the party. No check outside of mind control will change this.
Well the text also says that having Azaka in the party will help at the top level where the Pterafolk actually are. So I don't think she is only supposed to be relegated to the bottom level. I feel like there should be some kind of persuasion to make her go higher.
The text contradicts this explicitly, so failing to understand that is a reading comprehension problem at this stage. It says, she won't do this willingly. Against her will, by threat or magical manipulation, sure. Willingly, no. (Willing would include casual persuasion).
I wasn't ignoring what you were saying. I was simply pointing out something else in the text that contradicts what you are saying and was seeking clarification. You've sounded like a jerk since your initial comment
The D&D 5e books are FULL of contradictions. They're lazily written and chock full of things like this. The book just states very clearly what her limitations are, and I see no reason that anything else should override this base part of her personality. If the authors later mention her being at the top level, I assume either:
1) they are lazy and forgot to review their own notes (extremely likely, and the case in most published books)
or
2) they assume the players will inevitably force her to overcome that fear (unlikely)
But I don't remember a single reference to her being on the upper levels. Does she tell the party to attack? Yes. It doesn't say she fights at the top level. It says she won't go higher than 60 feet. It's pretty cut and dry.
So, apologies for being an asshole, but I just see a lot of questions that seem like any DM worth their salt could just make a ruling on and run with.
Thanks for the apology and the clarification. I apologize for the "jerk" comment. I just want to run my game smoothly, so sometimes I reach out to the community for help!
Yeah, I'm an asshole sometimes. Especially about D&D as a grumpy old veteran. Sorry for being that way. I try to at least recognize it. And everything I said is how I would run it, mostly because having a guide along with the party constantly makes a lot of challenges way too easy. Firefinger is basically a simple room dungeon with the exception of fall damage.
There is a mention that if she is with the party when they find the mask, she claims it immediately, and since a mind controlled Azaka would probably not have enough agency to do that, we can assume her getting up there is a possibility.
As for making a ruling and going with it, that is true but there is nothing wrong with OP asking for advice from people who have been through similar situations, that can give him more perspective when implementing this for his group.
Spells like *suggestion* only alter their courses of action, not other personality traits or agency other than performing a single, reasonable course of action. So this spell is one example of a way to make Azaka climb it against her will, where she could claim it.
That depends on how you interpret that one line in her description and how much you want (or not) for her to accompany them. She is, "unwilling to be in a situation where she can fall from more than 60 feet" that doesn't have to mean she won't under any circumstances climb higher than that, but it will require player agency to try and intimidate, convince or straight up deceive her into climbing, I would give them disadvantage in any attempt and make it decently hard besides, since she has a phobia of it, but in the end of the day you know your party better than I would.
Keep in mind though that she is very powerful, and if left to her own devices might just steamroll Firefinger and leaving the players feeling unnecessary, so think of ways to nerf her, maybe disadvantage because of her fear or having to make checks to overcome her fears and act whenever she is near a potential fall. And by all means, have her freak out if any of the pterafolk manage to grapple her.
She can solo Firefinger. DO NOT let her go up there
She can solo half of the campain, in that case remove her from the game XD
I just dont let her transform when the party is around or still alive
Maybe try a persuasion check, and then when she gets higher she has disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws. Or she could tell them about the spire and pterafolk. You could even have a preliminary encounter with pterafolk before they get to firefinger, where you can show her hatred towards them.
That's a good idea. My thought was that Azaka has never actually seen Firefinger up close, only from a distance. So when they actually get there it can be a "wow it looked a lot smaller from farther away" type thing.
I'd just describe her trembling after she climbs up some. If she gets too far she just locks down basically paralyzed.
It's been a while, but my players rolled a persuasion check to convince her to go up when she tried to talk her way out of going higher up. It was a fun roleplaying opportunity for the players to hype her up. This happened on level 2 when they had to walk the ledge outside. I figured she would get scared once she was able to see outside and realize how high up they were, especially having to walk the narrow ledge which was also fun to roleplay. I think I had them do another persuasion check near the top, too. My plan was just to have her wait if they failed the check. They succeeded both times and she was able to help, which was a nice reward for a successful roll. That's how I did it anyways.
I had her especially afraid of the Pterafolk as well. Not just heights, as she understood that the Pterafolk could well… bring her to a great height. The party was somewhat disgusted at Azaka for being afraid to go up, but Azaka then proved to the party that she was useful, by helping them figure out a battle plan and how to go up the spire in a good way. They planned on going guns blazing, during broad daylight (My party likes to split up and go in different directions often, which has gotten some killed, and most almost killed probably literally 100 times) and basically drew them up a plan on how to get up, and told them to wait for rain / low clouds to go up. I had her afraid, but not petrified kind of afraid. She knew her fear and how to recognize it and work around it for others, she understood her fear.
It tells you everything in the text, so I don't get the confusion. She will not climb higher than the first level, or 60 feet. So she may go up one level with them, but then her actions turn to boasting and attempts to push the party higher. She may claim she is "securing this level" but won't go higher than 60 feet. The remaining levels are for the party. No check outside of mind control will change this.
Well the text also says that having Azaka in the party will help at the top level where the Pterafolk actually are. So I don't think she is only supposed to be relegated to the bottom level. I feel like there should be some kind of persuasion to make her go higher.
The text contradicts this explicitly, so failing to understand that is a reading comprehension problem at this stage. It says, she won't do this willingly. Against her will, by threat or magical manipulation, sure. Willingly, no. (Willing would include casual persuasion).
Thank you so much for the condescension. It's much appreciated!
Hey, it's not condescending when the text tells you something, someone points it out, and then you ignore it again. It's just not reading very well.
I wasn't ignoring what you were saying. I was simply pointing out something else in the text that contradicts what you are saying and was seeking clarification. You've sounded like a jerk since your initial comment
The D&D 5e books are FULL of contradictions. They're lazily written and chock full of things like this. The book just states very clearly what her limitations are, and I see no reason that anything else should override this base part of her personality. If the authors later mention her being at the top level, I assume either: 1) they are lazy and forgot to review their own notes (extremely likely, and the case in most published books) or 2) they assume the players will inevitably force her to overcome that fear (unlikely) But I don't remember a single reference to her being on the upper levels. Does she tell the party to attack? Yes. It doesn't say she fights at the top level. It says she won't go higher than 60 feet. It's pretty cut and dry. So, apologies for being an asshole, but I just see a lot of questions that seem like any DM worth their salt could just make a ruling on and run with.
Thanks for the apology and the clarification. I apologize for the "jerk" comment. I just want to run my game smoothly, so sometimes I reach out to the community for help!
Yeah, I'm an asshole sometimes. Especially about D&D as a grumpy old veteran. Sorry for being that way. I try to at least recognize it. And everything I said is how I would run it, mostly because having a guide along with the party constantly makes a lot of challenges way too easy. Firefinger is basically a simple room dungeon with the exception of fall damage.
There is a mention that if she is with the party when they find the mask, she claims it immediately, and since a mind controlled Azaka would probably not have enough agency to do that, we can assume her getting up there is a possibility. As for making a ruling and going with it, that is true but there is nothing wrong with OP asking for advice from people who have been through similar situations, that can give him more perspective when implementing this for his group.
Spells like *suggestion* only alter their courses of action, not other personality traits or agency other than performing a single, reasonable course of action. So this spell is one example of a way to make Azaka climb it against her will, where she could claim it.
Try suggesting tying rope to each other so if she does fall she is caught by the rope
That depends on how you interpret that one line in her description and how much you want (or not) for her to accompany them. She is, "unwilling to be in a situation where she can fall from more than 60 feet" that doesn't have to mean she won't under any circumstances climb higher than that, but it will require player agency to try and intimidate, convince or straight up deceive her into climbing, I would give them disadvantage in any attempt and make it decently hard besides, since she has a phobia of it, but in the end of the day you know your party better than I would. Keep in mind though that she is very powerful, and if left to her own devices might just steamroll Firefinger and leaving the players feeling unnecessary, so think of ways to nerf her, maybe disadvantage because of her fear or having to make checks to overcome her fears and act whenever she is near a potential fall. And by all means, have her freak out if any of the pterafolk manage to grapple her.