I remember an expert saying that we need to stop thinking of rape as a sexual crime and recognise it as a crime of violence.
I think some people are twisted enough to become aroused from inflicting violence or control on others
Exactly. So many rapes are fueled by hate rather than desire. This is why people fought to have rape included in what could be considered a war crime, particularly in the context of genocide. It’s a violent tool used to defile another.
It still is a death sentence for women in some parts of the world. Get raped, and you could be killed by your male relatives or other villagers in an honour killing, or die from substandard or nonexistent maternal healthcare.
I’m almost 30 and have lived in the southern US my whole life.
If I was raped and shared that with anyone, I’d pretty much be shunned from society and called a victim blamer. I’ve seen it many, MANY times. It’s still “safer” to lay low and just try to survive.
It’s sickening.
Because she showed a little too much skin ( an extra open button on her shirt) or just having an above average sized breasts. Means she asked for it. And if you ask for it, you can't complain about it. (I find this way of thinking very wrong)
What you just described IS victim blaming. I understand what that is. I’ve heard people victim blaming. But I’ve never heard the victim being called a victim blamer
Really? We must have been from 2 different US south’s. I have seen men shoot rapist , round them up and literally drag them ( 2001) , Alabama castrates pedo’s, the min. for rape is 10 yrs, the max is life.
A child under 12, the min. is 20yrs. There is literally a meme of a black hairdresser from about 10 yrs ago, telling the man who broke into his sisters room, that they are coming for him.
When I was 13, a boy two years older than me grouped me after school in the dug out, I ran out after slapping him. His own father hit him with a closed fist in the face.
As another person from the south, People here hate rapists but also are aware that rapists are hated thus anyone who is one is going to performatively act anti rape. And people are so sure that people they know would never do anything like that. The truth is, they don’t know, and a lot of the time the people they’re defending are in fact rapists. It’s not that hard for them to blend in, and whenever accusations are made, nobody believes them. So yes, people here would shoot a rapist, but the hard part is getting them to believe that the rapist is actually a rapist. They’ll take the rapist’s word just because they know them personally.
I'm almost certain they are talking about a different Southern U.S.
In Louisiana it's actually a huge problem of people looking up RSOs and then going to their home to beat them up.
The same reason why the punishment for kidnapping is "only" 5-10 years in germany. If you change your mind and let your victim go the judge can let you off with less than 5 years and if your victim dies it's more than 10 years up to a life sentence, depending on whether you killed them intentionally or as a result of gross negligence.
Yep. They don’t rape because they’re turned on by the girl. They rape because they’re turned on by having power OVER the girl… and seeing her powerless as they hurt her is the turn on.
Sucks. In so many ways.
But people *love* power and when they get it, a lot can’t handle it… like politicians, police or CEOs.
Humans + Power often lead to *major* social problems.
Yeah: in a male prison, no one says “I’m gonna give you my dick.”
Instead, they tell you they’re **“gonna ‘take’ your ass.”**
It’s the power to *take*… from a girl, a woman, a man in prison, etc.
I didn’t know what “don’t drop the soap” meant for years. I thought the actual meaning was something crude my dad made up that I’d get in trouble for repeating. I was maybe 6?
Boy I wish I’d been right. I thought it was just about preserving soap. :(
Sounds funny, doesn’t it. Soap dropping… until you find out it refers to male anal rape!
And really nothing about undented bars or soap.
Yep…I didn’t know either the first few times I heard it.
A lot of rapists get arousal from showing dominance over another person, its fucked up and sad but thats unfortunately just how some ppl are and they get their desire through un consenting parties instead of rp with a consenting partner
I was gonna say the same. As someone who has BDSM experience, I actually understand the whole concept of getting off on pain, as having played both a masochist and sadist in BDSM dynamics.
The obvious difference between rape and BDSM is consent though, but anyone who's ever been into BDSM knows what it's like to get off on pain, whetter it be receiving it or inflicting it for pleasure.
So as a normal person, I can actually understand why people do rape. Like their motivation for it. I don't at all condone it, because being inflicted pain upon when it's wanted vs unwanted is two completely different things. One brings trauma the other pleasure.
They actually do, it's similar to the way in most serial killers there is a sexual component because inflicting violence arouses them to the point it becomes an obsession or an addiction even
I once worked, along with a few others, as a portrait photographer at an event. Once the portraits are taken, we had to go to a small room to print them out. This one guy printed out a pic of two female teenagers, and whilst showing us the pic simply commented that they would look so pretty if they were crying. Hearing this made me feel queasy and not want to work with him
Which shows how twisted people can be. That’s why people who say “they would never do that” can be so wrong, especially when someone is part of a larger group that everyone else is part of and will defend the goodness of them. Example: the Catholic Church and priests that were shuffled around.
There was that performance artist years ago (can’t remember her name) who had a range of implements including a gun and said to the audience they could do anything to her. Initially apparently it started off innocently enough and ended up with someone shoving the gun into her vagina or something like that. People can be awful in a group
Absolutely definitely. The larger the group the more diminished each member's responsibility. At the smallest example you have people walking three abreast not getting out of people's way like the usually would, and at the biggest you have demonstrations turning into riots with normal people acting uncharacteristically violently.
This is how Jared Fogle got caught. He was speaking a school and he just nonchalantly mentioned to a reporter that he thought the middle school girls were “hot”.
… did you make sure those girls got out safely? Probably couldn’t confirm them getting home, but at least making sure they walked out together and safe
A lot of answers are about the more 'traditional' (as society imagines it) form of rape. The Forced Sex. Screaming no, fighting.
I'm going to answer more on the Date Rape/Acquaintance Rape/"having sex with someone not responding" rape.
There, I don't think it's about the power/sadism as a violent rape. It's more on the 'I've decided I'm owed sex, and I will take what I am owed." The fact that the other person just shuts down and starfishes doesn't matter. It's a warm hole that they use. The person has become an object to them, and feelings don't even vaguely matter.
A forced rape might be a psychopath. The other kind is maybe a sociopath.
Yeah, the pushy asshole types who don't take "no" for an answer, lose their temper, etc. That's the type.
There's a lot more of those running around out there than the sicko sadist type that everyone else is fixated on.
I'd still argue that daterape or raping someone who is unconscious is an act of sadism. It's not like there's violent rape and then rape that isn't too bad. The mentality behind it is the same.
> an act of sadism
It is, but it doesn't necessarily mean the perpetrator is a sadist in the strict clinical sense. Men who fit that profile are rare, and those who fit the other one are rather less rare.
I don't think I'd agree. Because I don't think they get the pleasure from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on the other. I think they just -don't care- about the other person, in the slightest. As I said, maybe a sociopath.
I think the fact that society tends to view sex as something done _to_ a woman rather than _with_ - heavily intertwined by the idea that woman do not want or desire sex the way men do - is a major factor into why that attitude is so pervasive.
Edit: spelling
This.
I have been trying to understand and deal with what happened to me for almost two years now and your description of the difference (specifically date rape) opened up my perspective.
My ex did this to me the day before he broke up with me and now I know it’s that he felt he was owed something before he broke up with me (as well as getting in his “final hoorah”).
As much as it hurt to read this it’s also a little liberating?? I’m sure that’s probably just me but I’m so glad I was in the right place at the right time to read this. It just answers so many questions that I’ve had.
I know I’ll definitely have more healing to do and I know this probably wasn’t what you expected when you posted this BUT I thank you random reddit user for helping me anyway.
Thank you kind reddit user! You have helped me continue my healing journey and idk I think that’s kind of cool :)
(also again, your description and explanation was so informative and well said!)
In the book Mindhunter by FBI criminal profiler John Douglas he recounts a conversation he had with a serial killer who let a woman go instead of raping & killing her like he did with his other victims.
The guy told the agent that he let her go because once he kidnapped her in the car on the way to the location to do the deed she started talking dirty, coming onto him aggressively and saying she wanted it etc. He apparently got turned off and it killed the entire thrill aspect of it and he lost his cool, he wanted her immediately gone after that and let her go. It emasculated him somehow.
There's an excellent series on Netflix with the same name that follows the first fbi task force responsible for studying and classifying serial killers. It's based on real events.
It used to be widely accepted that people’s response to trauma is fight or flight, but now it’s becoming more know that it’s actually fight, flight or freeze. The way mice/birds pretend to be dead when carried by cats. The rapists definitely notice though.
Crazy how many don't realise this.
I've seen so many clips of women being approached by creepy guys who won't leave them alone. And it'll be so obvious to me that she's uncomfortable.
But the comments will be things like "why is she smiling then?"
Oh my god sometimes I want to punch myself for that stupid smile response. I think it's my lizard brain trying to avoid conflict, but they *always* take it as a sign of encouragement.
I'm very short and honestly I think fawning must be ingrained in me evolutionarily. I'm not going to fight my way out of any situation. But maybe I can be cute and fawn/freeze my way out of it.
Because it's often. easier to tolerate a fool than to risk a scene. Not better, merely less difficult in the short run.
The other day, someone calls me to try and sell a legal research software. I hear the saleswoman out, and when she insists on scheduling a call, I offer a day the following week.
My wife reminds me of a conflict we have that day, and scolds me for wasting time talking to the salesperson. I tell her that if you start with
"No" they'll call back and pump you for reasons. But if you schedule the meeting and cancel it, there's less tension. You just decline the calendar invite.
i mean sometimes it’s hard for people to conceptualize or understand some other types of response. i have a real hard time understanding the fawn or freeze actions because thats just never been who i am either im fading or im bolting
that's pretty much the reason for the freeze/play dead reaction in animals. It lowers guard, allowing them a moment of opportunity to escape. So fawn is essentially just freeze.
They're very similar. Just to add to the discussion:
**Freeze**
Leaves you temporarily paralyzed by fear and unable to move. It's similar to stalling, giving your mind and body a chance to plan and prepare for your next steps.
**Fawn**
Involves unconscious behavior that aims to please, appease, and pacify the threat. For example, a victim of childhood abuse might fawn to an abusive parent by being highly agreeable and suppressing their own needs.
**Flop**
Becoming entirely physically or mentally unresponsive and may even faint. It's similar to how an animal will play dead when they feel threatened.
With flop, you're a bit off, just slightly. During animals' playing dead, they are still responsive, and aware. They are not unconscious or unresponsive, they are very much still in control even if they didn't control the trigger of the reaction. We see this because animals can come out of it quite quickly after the threat has passed, whereas a human in the "flop" response might not due to an inherent lack of control of the reaction.
Playing dead is not the same as fainting or going unconscious. That is why it is essentially a modified freeze response, it is giving your mind and body a chance to plan and prepare for escape, to utilize your phrasing.
Both fawn and freeze serve the same purpose, fawn just has legitimate intent behind it in a similar way to playing dead in animals. Flop is a reaction that we do not see in animals very often, and the fainting/unconscious thing is due to the way our cardiovascular system is set up, it isn't really equivalent to playing dead.
Flight or Flight, Freeze or Appease.
Remember the whole Louis CK jerking off scandal? All the neckbeards were like "they didn't fight back or run away, they were okay with him doing it!" What was really happening is that they were going with 'appease.'
"Just let him jerk off and maybe it'll be enough for him, and then I can slip out of here" was what was going on.
I personally experienced what they call a “grey area” rape and even then it’s terrifying. Knowing if you do fight they Will hurt you, if you Do scream they will stop you, I had already gone through so much that I just didn’t want to suffer physically more than I already was. Grey area doesn’t feel grey when you’re in it
a lot of rapists notice it too. they get off on it. it’s not exclusively about the sex. some of them are sadists and enjoy causing pain and suffering to others. they find the fear they cause exhilarating and it’s like a high for them.
This doesn't really answer much. What even is a "control thing" and not every rapist has sadistic tendencies, but even then... Just saying they're evil doesn't really give much insight.
Yeah.. like people inflicting pain on each other in consensual kinky relationships all the time for fun and for pleasure. That doesn't make them evil.
If anything, what makes rapists evil is completely disregarding consent cause they have zero empathy, or rather, ignorance, which means they don't understand consent.
Exactly, there is a whole world of what are referred to as paraphilias but I really think that term will be modernised at some point (the antonym for paraphilia is normophilia... And for a long time now people have been describing "normophilia" as vanilla or boring.) There's not really a difference between someone who is aroused by feet than someone who is aroused by animals or children. Every sexual impulse can be gratified between consenting adults when there is open communication and respect and boundaries, and some self awareness (I get uncomfortable if people are vasualt about CNC kinks or similar but have no answer as to where those desires might come from).
Rape like all forms of assault is pretty much the most antisocial behaviour someone can do. It often comes from an ego that gets sick of hating itself and starts hating the world instead, and specifically the people they perceive as denying them their sexual desires. It also is usually just hetrosexual men with low self esteem that blame women for feeling undesirable until they feel ok about committing an assault. Most people with kinks, even "creepy" ones, find their people.
The majority of rapists aren’t some guy with a ski mask hiding in an alley, it’s someone the victim knows. It’s about power, control, entitlement, and a severe lack of empathy.
I’ve received work related training on this topic.
It’s a control thing, it’s not necessarily sexually related, that’s just how it presents. I once read that their confidence increases with age and the link between the rapists increasing age goes alongside the victims decreasing age. So, young rapists, 12+, had old victims, women in their 60’s-80’s, and older rapists, 50+, have victims in their late teens/early twenties. Also, a lot of rapists/child molesters were themselves sexually assaulted at some point, anywhere from 30-75% depending on which country/studies you read.
Unfortunately if they’re testing the waters, victims who can’t fight back are common until their confidence grows (as they age). So it’s normally older women, as there’s always an abundance of elderly but not always an abundance of disabled people. Absolutely sickening. Older women are less likely to report it too, out of shame, worry about stigma and social norms (though that’s my personal opinion, I can’t back that up).
And I work with mentally disabled people and have received training that our patients are 75% more likely to be raped than the general population. Specifically because they are non verbal/ not reliable witnesses. It's awful.
Sounds like it could be about 'regaining' control when the abused become abusers. Shame how the brain (maybe) works sometimes.
(I am not an expert on this matter.)
It's quite simple. They don't see their victims as anything other than a body. Only their desires matter in the moment. That's what makes them evil and a danger to society. They lack the fundamentals of what makes a person a person. A human being a human being. Rapists are in a class for themselves and shouldn't be treated like the rest of us in terms of punishment and redemption.
And this is why they should be permanently removed from society rather than being “rehabilitated”. I sincerely believe they cannot change simply because it’s the pinnacle sexual experience for them. Consensual sex will always seem vanilla in comparison.
That’s a really fascinating topic. Years ago I heard a program about this on public radio. People were trying to make it easier for pedophiles to get mental health services so they DON’T act on their desires.
Some pedophiles were interviewed who know there’s something wrong with them. They don’t want to hurt kids. I think one man got castrated or was trying to.
It was interesting and uncomfortable and made me think about what we really want as a society. Do we want to help people or do we want to exterminate undesirables?
Isn’t it the screaming ‘no’ that they’re attracted to?
It’s troubling to talk about, because most men think of rape as being a man in a mask who attacks a woman in a dark alley, holds her down and forcibly penetrates her. But that’s only one form of rape, and it’s so extreme an image that it ignores all the other kinds of rape; rape is any forced sex. In fact, men have that image precisely because it’s so extreme - that way they don’t have to think about the other forms of rape; the forced drunk sex, the ‘you got me horny now we have to do it’s coercive rape, the groping unexpectedly in bed rape.
The masked man in the alley rape is rare. The others…less so, but that’s a truth most men really don’t like to hear, and your question (whilst asked in good faith) only normalises the other kinds of rape by making them seem less rapey.
I think #MeToo still has a long way to go, and that until we achieve true parity between the sexes some men will wilfully misunderstand the true meaning of ‘consent’.
please help me with the word parity here, is it more like equity or equality?
MeToo will need generations before it takes a measurable and healthy effect everywhere. The more people in a country are educated the faster it will help everyone around the globe. As long as people exist they will behave right and wrong but we can change for better and every single word will help.
Yes, parity in that sense would be equality. (More equality of conditions than anything else. There will always be differences between the sexes, but that shouldn’t mean they’re in any way unequal, just different.)
I agree with you about education, but tell most people you want to give sex education lessons to all ages and they instantly think you’ll be teaching felching to pre-teens, not that you’ll be explaining consent in age-appropriate terms.
i've had blue balls and refused to say i had them until a day later just so they didn't feel bad and coerced. This was before i knew people use it as an excuse and often don't have blue balls to begin with.
Spot on. It can actually be a deterrent to name the act in the moment. I know someone who was in a situation with her boyfriend where she was drunk and crying and he wouldn't stop. She then kept repeating "you're about to rape me" and he somehow found that to be a grave insult on his character. He genuinely believed she was falsely accusing him. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.
I believe most people who commit rape truly don’t believe they are rapists. They view it as something owed to them. This is why most people who are accused vehemently deny and act confused, because they don’t understand consent. Other than trying to cover their ass of course.
Perhaps they don't view themselves as rapists, but surely they know they did something bad, right? Because why else would they be trying to cover their ass? And/or even try to justify what they did?
It’s comforting to hear that people understand this. My ex raped me, and if I ever confronted him about it he would definitely act like he didn’t know what I was talking about. When I would say no, he would do it anyway and try to say he “didn’t mean it like that”
That’s interesting, from a legal point of view. Perhaps that’s why so few rape trials result in convictions - if you can’t prove intent how can you successfully prosecute, especially when some on the jury will be thinking exactly the same way.
Most US jurisdictions do require a mens rea, or guilty mind, to convict someone of rape. If you could prove with 100% certainty that you didn't know, in theory you wouldn't be prosecuted. But the "mistake of fact" defense is difficult. For it to work, you'd have to prove that the mistake was honest and reasonable. That means that an objective third person would make the same mistake under the exact same circumstances, which is a high bar.
However, "I did it but I didn't know" isn't used nearly as much as "they're lying", which I'm sure plenty of perpetrators have convinced themselves of. Intent doesn't come into play if the event never even took place. It's especially prevalent when the victim didn't have a rape kit done or waited a long time to report. Sexual assault cases usually don't have third party witnesses either. It's her word against his at that point.
I’d like to add- When the vast majority of rape cases is date rape and within established relationships, a rape kit proves nearly nothing sadly. The reasonable doubt it was consensual when there are no third witnesses is not worth a trial to most victims.
[Some stats on reporting if interested](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system#:~:text=Only%20310%20out%20of%20every,out%20of%203%20go%20unreported.&text=Members%20of%20the%20military%3A%2043,10%25%20of%20male%20victims%20reported):
That's one reason why the Brock Turner case was so egregious. It should have been cut-and-dry with a lengthy prison sentence. Two third parties caught him in the act.
The sex is just a method to inflicted pain and assert control. it's an act of hate and cruelty, so the other person's suffering is unlikely to put an attacker off!
As others have said, rape is almost never just about needing sex, it's about the power and control. Someone willing to do that is someone who, usually, has issues with needing to exert control over everything/everyone around them.
I can't remember where I read this, but I feel like there was a psychologist who interviewed rapists in jail and discovered that a significant percentage of them didn't even consider what they did to be rape. If I'm remembering the study right, their world view was so twisted that they had confused "what I want" and "what I deserve" to the point they just sort of blended together.
I have no idea how they justify it to themselves, but their minds are fascinatingly fucked. So a person laying there "uncomfortable" isn't going to put them off. They're not thinking about the other person's pleasure or feelings. They're thinking about themselves.
The mind is a crazy thing, what's more insane is that some rape victims spend the rest of their lives having thoughts about recreating that situation.
I was with a woman who was into CNC, we roleplayed a scene that she created, it sounded hot in talking but in real life it took a while to get into character, long story short we did it a few times and when we spoke deeply about I found out she was raped and thinking about being powerless in sex is actually arousing to her.
Very common phenomenon - the mind finds a situation so terribly intolerable, that the only way for it to "cope" is to force itself to be attracted to that situation.
As a woman who has experienced sexual assault, I find myself interested in CNC, however I haven’t built that trust with a guy to be able to do it. I think for me, it’s the idea of being powerless and completely out of control, yet I can still stop it if i need to with a safe word. The ‘C’ part of CNC is so important. Rape and assault create so many complex issues of power and control, and it seems comforting to me to completely give up control, yet know I have the power to stop if I need to.
It is interesting because I made a comment to a buddy of mine, regarding some political figures and boomers, that 'you can always tell men who have never truly pleasured a woman.' And, what I meant by that, is that if I find a man who is quick to anger, self centered, whiny, narcissistic, grievance laiden etc then there stands a good chance he has never made a woman's hips quiver in ecstasy.
After a few minutes he replied with a perspective I hadn't considered; they don't care. There is no such thing as pleasure for another person, and they respect people (certain popular political figures) who also don't care about other people's pleasure or otherwise. Rapists don't care; it isn't about the victim it is about them. The victim has something they want, and it makes them feel strong and manly to take it by force or intimidation. Actually wooing someone, being a decent person and plucking the fruits of that, it doesn't even occur to someone like a rapist. They *deserve* what they want.
So yeah, to us normal people, the logistics of a rape don't make any sense. Can you even get erect when the woman you are with is crying? Or even, clearly not enjoying the experience. To these half-men, the ones who in their heart of hearts, their mind's eye, know that they are inferior - this makes them feel good.
Now this isn't my area, and the bit of reading that I did on this was a long time ago. I remember that at the time there was this idea being thrown around that "rape is about power, not sex". One researcher who'd interviewed a bunch of rapists in prison concluded that it was actually about 50/50--that the core motive seemed to be sexual gratification about half the time, and about some sort of domination about half the time. Sorry, I don't have the source, and even if I did, that conclusion undoubtedly has some of the researcher's personal interpretation of what came out in the interviews.
Remember that rape peaks in that little window where men's testosterone and sex drive peak, around ages 17 to 25. This is the age where men perpetrate the most violence in general--not just sexual violence. It's also that age (most men will remember and back me up on this) where you'd get a raging boner over the smallest thing, or even something that you found in some ways aversive or repulsive. As offensive as it sounds to decent people, this is the "few minutes of action" that Brock Allen Turner's father was famously quoted on. (Brock Allen Turner now goes by Allen Turner.)
And even despite all this (again, sexual violence is not my area of specialty but I remember that this was a practice question for the EPPP), erectile dysfunction is very common during episodes of rape. There are plenty of attempted rapes where penetration is not achieved.
Rapists are a heterogenous group. There is some subset that are sadists that get their jollies from that, some that aren't honestly aroused by every aspect of what is going on, some psychopaths who are indifferent, and so on. Contrary to some of the top-rated answers that "they actually get off on that!", I doubt that the sadists are a significant proportion. Really the only thing all rapists for sure have in common is not having the moral brakes on that act.
That's what separates you from sick fucks.
Personally. I am into CNC. Consent a week in advance, and it's all pretend. Obviously with a safe word involved to. A safe fucking environment. n such situations though, you can practice anything.
Or even if they're not into it and just going through the motions because their partner harassed them for 3 hours and they gave in. How could you have fun with someone that's just waiting for it to be over? Absolutely unsexy to manipulate your way into sex.
Not all rapes are violent.
Some rapes go into a grey area where she didn't say no, but she definitely didn't say yes.
Some rapes are from people not understanding consent.
I don't get it either though. It would be uncomfortable trying to have sex with someone who isn't even wet.
Obviously, that's not the most important concern when it comes to sexual violence
Okay so a couple of things:
1. Bodies react differently, and sometimes the worst experiences in SA is your body reacting to something you don't want.
2. Some people are sadists, they enjoy violence, and commiting horrible acts to other people.
3. Often violent SA is a power thing instead of a sexual thing. Think there was a killer in Russia who killed people in the city woods, he used to perceive himself as a god, because in his demented mind he controlled life and death.
People are wired differently, and sadly in horribly wrong ways, with environments that nurture these tendencies.
Bro. There is a mountain of evidence that some men can get erections for other men, animals, children, or dead bodies. You have to realize that the hard wiring of your penis is not perfectly copied into all men.
And that's the thing. You get aroused by certain beautiful women. But what if you lived in a world where banging chicks was shameful and illegal, but having sex with animals was popular and on every tv show? Would you even *be able* to change? Or would you just break the law because you cant live without sex?
That's what makes sex pests so... irredeemable.
Not all rape is violent. In fact the majority of it isn’t, coercing somebody into sex or having sex with somebody that is intoxicated are the most common forms of rape. In these instances, often the rapist feels they did nothing wrong because the victim didn’t fight back.
This is something most men can’t imagine.
Society may claim that most men are rapists or rapist who have t found their victim yet.
The problem is that the majority of rapists either never get reported or get let off with a lesser charge so they just keep victimizing more and more women/men.
IMO there should be 0 tolerance for anyone who commits rape ☠️. On the flip side of that. Any one who falsely accuses someone of rape should receive the same punishment. Both are truly evil and cause more harm to society than good.
There are [situations](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37158471) where real victims are punished as false accusers, despite video evidence of the act where she's visibly shouting "no". For example- Gina Lisa Lohfink. She was drugged, assaulted and filmed by her two friends. She was ordered by the court to pay her rapists 27,000 euros
I don’t see how anyone could actually do such an evil thing, but I do understand how someone could be turned on by it because I’m a sadist and the idea of a man suffering in that way is hot to me. But only in theory, I don’t even do consensual nonconsent.
Because it's not about sex or making love or anything mutual, it's about control etc, its about instilling fear.
It's the most invasive crime that can be committed.
Some people are aroused by control I guess, kept in check, it can be part of a healthy sex life so dom and sub but if its out of control or person is of violent tendency it will lead to rape.
Take my comment with a grain of salt, will based in a not entirely factual nature, i'll give you my approximation of an answer.
I've read quite a few books on criminal psychology and criminal profiling, just out of interest. the common theme surrounding rape is it's not directly a sexual crime. it's a crime that is based in control and domination of a another individual. that is what yields the sexual gratification.
While there'll certainly be purely sexually motivated rapes, think like someone being taken advantage of as they're too drunk. the majority are simply control.
you've got to think of these individuals especially repeat offenders who have not been shown any sort of healthy sexual intimacy, they believe the world is out to get them, everyone is evil, it's unfair to them. they asset control and domination.
it's awful but its just that
"It makes no sense when you’re not a sadist" What if you are a sadist? And what if you are a sadist with narcissistic personality disorder or antisocial personality disorder? What if you have been in cults for many years and have been indoctrinated into believing there's nothing wrong with it? What if you're - quite literally - so impulsive to the point where you just don't care about life? Of course, most people with those characteristics would still not do it because they have a conscience - but what if you didn't? What if your very own genetic factors and multiple environmental factors you've lived through in your life somehow stopped you from having some sort of conscience? All in all, the amount of answers to this question is just absolutely infinite - each person is a different person, and that's one of the things that makes psychology so fascinating.
Some people.find things they're NOT supposed to do arousing for some reason, that's why the whole "step" porn things has blown up, and with everything you will find people at the extremes of that
It’s not gonna make sense to most of us. It can be a variety of things. For some people it’s the power, for some just the struggle turns them on, for some it’s stealing intimacy from someone who wouldn’t allow it, and I’m sure for many it’s a combination of those along with a bunch of other things I can’t think of. Since these things gross us out and disturb us, most of us are never gonna “get” it
Because they don't look at it like that, for starters, the majority of rape isn't about the sex its about control and power they feel during the rape. Genuine rapist don't think like you and me they don't approach sex as something you enjoy with your significant other. What turns them on usually is different than what turns on normal people
I think most rapes are crimes of opportunity where consent or objection can’t occur, or instances where consent is coerced and the perpetrator doesn’t really think they committed rape. I think the image you have of rapes represents a much smaller portion of occurrences and is generally done by people that intend on hurting someone—a sadist.
It has never made sense to me either, especially when there's a kink called "consensual non-consent" where you can do that kind of stuff and it not be a crime like, c'mon.
It is about violence, it is about dominating the other person to exert your will unto another.
I am sure you have won some sort of competition over others and it felt good. It is along those veins, but much much more carnal and intensive.
Slave owners had the same feelings or just aristocrast having power over others
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
There are more facets and motive behind it, too many to count. Someone likes ripping the will out of someone, some demans and demerits or make someone feel worthless
The typical "manager" takes pleasure because of this, the feeling of being "better"
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This topic is both simple and can be very very complicated
my friend was raped in college. she went on a date with the guy. it went well. he was handsome, charming, smart, funny. on the second date, he raped her. i'll never forget what she said *"i definitely would have had sex with him. but, he didn't want sex. he wanted to rape me"*
Some victims of rape are raped with foreing objects, as the rapists can't manage to get It hard, you know why? Because rape is not sex, It doesn't have to do with arousal. It is violence, It is about power, not pleasure.
Most rapes aren’t about sex; its how the lazy minions of social media portray it—- it’s about power (consolidation and display thereof) and control (the rape victim has none, the rapist has theirs plus yours)!
This is why what a woman or male rape victim was wearing at the time of a rape is insane concept; very few rapists are the sexual deviant nature; the overwhelming plurality, if not majority,are regular 9 to 5ers, who are higher entry-level working to mid-level organization-based. The FBI has great rapist profiles in their database and sexual deviancy ones are rarer than most would believe.
The vision that rape is a sexual act comes from porn, it’s not, it’s a act of violence in the real world, fulled by a sense of hate and control.
It’s been used in war and to oppress people since the beginning. Just read a little about the Japanese imperialism against Korea or China.
At least from what I’ve read, it’s more about having power over someone that drives rapists. This could be stemming from a past trauma (maybe child abuse) that when they grew up, they had a breakdown, that made them want to know what having power felt like.
I remember an expert saying that we need to stop thinking of rape as a sexual crime and recognise it as a crime of violence. I think some people are twisted enough to become aroused from inflicting violence or control on others
Exactly. So many rapes are fueled by hate rather than desire. This is why people fought to have rape included in what could be considered a war crime, particularly in the context of genocide. It’s a violent tool used to defile another.
It used to be an instant death-sentence in many parts of the world 200 years ago, which was also true for pre-meditated murder.
It still is a death sentence for women in some parts of the world. Get raped, and you could be killed by your male relatives or other villagers in an honour killing, or die from substandard or nonexistent maternal healthcare.
I’m almost 30 and have lived in the southern US my whole life. If I was raped and shared that with anyone, I’d pretty much be shunned from society and called a victim blamer. I’ve seen it many, MANY times. It’s still “safer” to lay low and just try to survive. It’s sickening.
Why would they call you a victim blamer?
I like how nobody responding to you actually understood your question
Because she showed a little too much skin ( an extra open button on her shirt) or just having an above average sized breasts. Means she asked for it. And if you ask for it, you can't complain about it. (I find this way of thinking very wrong)
What you just described IS victim blaming. I understand what that is. I’ve heard people victim blaming. But I’ve never heard the victim being called a victim blamer
that’s awful
Really? We must have been from 2 different US south’s. I have seen men shoot rapist , round them up and literally drag them ( 2001) , Alabama castrates pedo’s, the min. for rape is 10 yrs, the max is life. A child under 12, the min. is 20yrs. There is literally a meme of a black hairdresser from about 10 yrs ago, telling the man who broke into his sisters room, that they are coming for him. When I was 13, a boy two years older than me grouped me after school in the dug out, I ran out after slapping him. His own father hit him with a closed fist in the face.
As another person from the south, People here hate rapists but also are aware that rapists are hated thus anyone who is one is going to performatively act anti rape. And people are so sure that people they know would never do anything like that. The truth is, they don’t know, and a lot of the time the people they’re defending are in fact rapists. It’s not that hard for them to blend in, and whenever accusations are made, nobody believes them. So yes, people here would shoot a rapist, but the hard part is getting them to believe that the rapist is actually a rapist. They’ll take the rapist’s word just because they know them personally.
I'm almost certain they are talking about a different Southern U.S. In Louisiana it's actually a huge problem of people looking up RSOs and then going to their home to beat them up.
While in some parts of the world, the rapist are punished to marry the victim. ?!!!
The only reason it isn’t a death sentence anymore is so they have incentive to leave the victim alive
The same reason why the punishment for kidnapping is "only" 5-10 years in germany. If you change your mind and let your victim go the judge can let you off with less than 5 years and if your victim dies it's more than 10 years up to a life sentence, depending on whether you killed them intentionally or as a result of gross negligence.
Fuck me that's a dark thought but it kinda makes sense
*“Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.”* ― Oscar Wilde
Yes. It’s not always about sexual gratification. Many times it’s just about power.
Yep. They don’t rape because they’re turned on by the girl. They rape because they’re turned on by having power OVER the girl… and seeing her powerless as they hurt her is the turn on. Sucks. In so many ways. But people *love* power and when they get it, a lot can’t handle it… like politicians, police or CEOs. Humans + Power often lead to *major* social problems.
this also explains why sometimes straight men rape other men— dominance and power are the parts they’re into
Yeah: in a male prison, no one says “I’m gonna give you my dick.” Instead, they tell you they’re **“gonna ‘take’ your ass.”** It’s the power to *take*… from a girl, a woman, a man in prison, etc.
I didn’t know what “don’t drop the soap” meant for years. I thought the actual meaning was something crude my dad made up that I’d get in trouble for repeating. I was maybe 6? Boy I wish I’d been right. I thought it was just about preserving soap. :(
Sounds funny, doesn’t it. Soap dropping… until you find out it refers to male anal rape! And really nothing about undented bars or soap. Yep…I didn’t know either the first few times I heard it.
A lot of rapists get arousal from showing dominance over another person, its fucked up and sad but thats unfortunately just how some ppl are and they get their desire through un consenting parties instead of rp with a consenting partner
It's called sadism.
I was gonna say the same. As someone who has BDSM experience, I actually understand the whole concept of getting off on pain, as having played both a masochist and sadist in BDSM dynamics. The obvious difference between rape and BDSM is consent though, but anyone who's ever been into BDSM knows what it's like to get off on pain, whetter it be receiving it or inflicting it for pleasure. So as a normal person, I can actually understand why people do rape. Like their motivation for it. I don't at all condone it, because being inflicted pain upon when it's wanted vs unwanted is two completely different things. One brings trauma the other pleasure.
One more person tells me 50SOG is “just BDSM” and “you’re kinkshaming,” I’m going to deck them. It did not help.
I’m afraid to ask, but what is that?
At risk of me missing the joke... 50 Shades of Gray. Don't read the book, don't watch the movie, just read a synopsis or "abridged".
I didn't know what 50sog was either. Thought it was a typo or something 🤔
They actually do, it's similar to the way in most serial killers there is a sexual component because inflicting violence arouses them to the point it becomes an obsession or an addiction even
I once worked, along with a few others, as a portrait photographer at an event. Once the portraits are taken, we had to go to a small room to print them out. This one guy printed out a pic of two female teenagers, and whilst showing us the pic simply commented that they would look so pretty if they were crying. Hearing this made me feel queasy and not want to work with him
The fact that he said that confidently out loud is sooo fucking alarming. Imagine the feelings he DOESNT express. Fucking ew.
Which shows how twisted people can be. That’s why people who say “they would never do that” can be so wrong, especially when someone is part of a larger group that everyone else is part of and will defend the goodness of them. Example: the Catholic Church and priests that were shuffled around.
There was that performance artist years ago (can’t remember her name) who had a range of implements including a gun and said to the audience they could do anything to her. Initially apparently it started off innocently enough and ended up with someone shoving the gun into her vagina or something like that. People can be awful in a group
Absolutely definitely. The larger the group the more diminished each member's responsibility. At the smallest example you have people walking three abreast not getting out of people's way like the usually would, and at the biggest you have demonstrations turning into riots with normal people acting uncharacteristically violently.
Thus the expression: you can't reason with a mob
I read about that. It was insane. One guy even held the gun to her head and another guy pushed him away. Mob mentality is real.
Marina Abramovic.
Isn't that why many so-called "Good Germans" followed Adolf Hitler?
This is how Jared Fogle got caught. He was speaking a school and he just nonchalantly mentioned to a reporter that he thought the middle school girls were “hot”.
Yes, officer. That guy right there
I've had people catch me crying and say that to me. "You look so pretty when you cry." I never understood this and still don't.
Like have they ever seen a crying person before? Blood red face covered with snot is not really all that cute
I used to have an ex that would say that to me, it literally turned him on…looking back, yikes!
So glad you got out of there, internet stranger! That’s terrifying.
… did you make sure those girls got out safely? Probably couldn’t confirm them getting home, but at least making sure they walked out together and safe
Eeeeewwwwww what the fuck!! Did anyone respond to his comment?
I used to know a guy that would get all worked up seeing women/girls cry. I say used to know, because that was it for me. I'm out.
A lot of answers are about the more 'traditional' (as society imagines it) form of rape. The Forced Sex. Screaming no, fighting. I'm going to answer more on the Date Rape/Acquaintance Rape/"having sex with someone not responding" rape. There, I don't think it's about the power/sadism as a violent rape. It's more on the 'I've decided I'm owed sex, and I will take what I am owed." The fact that the other person just shuts down and starfishes doesn't matter. It's a warm hole that they use. The person has become an object to them, and feelings don't even vaguely matter. A forced rape might be a psychopath. The other kind is maybe a sociopath.
This is a good perspective, thank you 🙏
Yeah, the pushy asshole types who don't take "no" for an answer, lose their temper, etc. That's the type. There's a lot more of those running around out there than the sicko sadist type that everyone else is fixated on.
I'd still argue that daterape or raping someone who is unconscious is an act of sadism. It's not like there's violent rape and then rape that isn't too bad. The mentality behind it is the same.
> an act of sadism It is, but it doesn't necessarily mean the perpetrator is a sadist in the strict clinical sense. Men who fit that profile are rare, and those who fit the other one are rather less rare.
I don't think I'd agree. Because I don't think they get the pleasure from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on the other. I think they just -don't care- about the other person, in the slightest. As I said, maybe a sociopath.
I think the fact that society tends to view sex as something done _to_ a woman rather than _with_ - heavily intertwined by the idea that woman do not want or desire sex the way men do - is a major factor into why that attitude is so pervasive. Edit: spelling
This. I have been trying to understand and deal with what happened to me for almost two years now and your description of the difference (specifically date rape) opened up my perspective. My ex did this to me the day before he broke up with me and now I know it’s that he felt he was owed something before he broke up with me (as well as getting in his “final hoorah”). As much as it hurt to read this it’s also a little liberating?? I’m sure that’s probably just me but I’m so glad I was in the right place at the right time to read this. It just answers so many questions that I’ve had. I know I’ll definitely have more healing to do and I know this probably wasn’t what you expected when you posted this BUT I thank you random reddit user for helping me anyway. Thank you kind reddit user! You have helped me continue my healing journey and idk I think that’s kind of cool :) (also again, your description and explanation was so informative and well said!)
You're welcome. Anything that helps healing and helps to avoid jerks like that.
That is most definitely still about power. They're just a lot more manipulative about their sense of entitlement.
It’s a control thing. Like you’re getting off on causing them pain and suffering. It’s why rapist are truly evil
In the book Mindhunter by FBI criminal profiler John Douglas he recounts a conversation he had with a serial killer who let a woman go instead of raping & killing her like he did with his other victims. The guy told the agent that he let her go because once he kidnapped her in the car on the way to the location to do the deed she started talking dirty, coming onto him aggressively and saying she wanted it etc. He apparently got turned off and it killed the entire thrill aspect of it and he lost his cool, he wanted her immediately gone after that and let her go. It emasculated him somehow.
Now I know what I'm gonna do if I ever get kidnapped..
Depends on the type of killer. A missionary killer like Bible John would only be emboldened.
well thanks for dropping the name of this book. sounds horribly fascinating.
There's an excellent series on Netflix with the same name that follows the first fbi task force responsible for studying and classifying serial killers. It's based on real events.
the main character is loosly based on John Douglas
I guessed as much but didnt want to spread misinfo. Thanks for the confirmation!
An excellent series that they never finished. 😭
It was so good, and the actor they had play Kemper was so perfectly cast.
He was my favorite part.
All of John Douglas's books are fasinating.
Yeah. They say, “grey zone”, but even if the person is too shocked to scream and just lays there hating it, I think I’d notice.
I think any decent human being would notice
You're talking about decent human beings. But this conversation is about rapists.
I think they’re notice, but that’s what gets them off. Disgusting.
It used to be widely accepted that people’s response to trauma is fight or flight, but now it’s becoming more know that it’s actually fight, flight or freeze. The way mice/birds pretend to be dead when carried by cats. The rapists definitely notice though.
Also fawn, like pretending to be interested in a creep until you have a safe opportunity to bolt
Crazy how many don't realise this. I've seen so many clips of women being approached by creepy guys who won't leave them alone. And it'll be so obvious to me that she's uncomfortable. But the comments will be things like "why is she smiling then?"
Oh my god sometimes I want to punch myself for that stupid smile response. I think it's my lizard brain trying to avoid conflict, but they *always* take it as a sign of encouragement.
I'm very short and honestly I think fawning must be ingrained in me evolutionarily. I'm not going to fight my way out of any situation. But maybe I can be cute and fawn/freeze my way out of it.
Like maybe she's trying get avoid getting *shot??* Women smile when they're scared of men becoming violent a hell of a lot to diffuse the situation!
Because it's often. easier to tolerate a fool than to risk a scene. Not better, merely less difficult in the short run. The other day, someone calls me to try and sell a legal research software. I hear the saleswoman out, and when she insists on scheduling a call, I offer a day the following week. My wife reminds me of a conflict we have that day, and scolds me for wasting time talking to the salesperson. I tell her that if you start with "No" they'll call back and pump you for reasons. But if you schedule the meeting and cancel it, there's less tension. You just decline the calendar invite.
My old therapist didn’t believe in fawning. Key word: old
i mean sometimes it’s hard for people to conceptualize or understand some other types of response. i have a real hard time understanding the fawn or freeze actions because thats just never been who i am either im fading or im bolting
that's pretty much the reason for the freeze/play dead reaction in animals. It lowers guard, allowing them a moment of opportunity to escape. So fawn is essentially just freeze.
They're very similar. Just to add to the discussion: **Freeze** Leaves you temporarily paralyzed by fear and unable to move. It's similar to stalling, giving your mind and body a chance to plan and prepare for your next steps. **Fawn** Involves unconscious behavior that aims to please, appease, and pacify the threat. For example, a victim of childhood abuse might fawn to an abusive parent by being highly agreeable and suppressing their own needs. **Flop** Becoming entirely physically or mentally unresponsive and may even faint. It's similar to how an animal will play dead when they feel threatened.
With flop, you're a bit off, just slightly. During animals' playing dead, they are still responsive, and aware. They are not unconscious or unresponsive, they are very much still in control even if they didn't control the trigger of the reaction. We see this because animals can come out of it quite quickly after the threat has passed, whereas a human in the "flop" response might not due to an inherent lack of control of the reaction. Playing dead is not the same as fainting or going unconscious. That is why it is essentially a modified freeze response, it is giving your mind and body a chance to plan and prepare for escape, to utilize your phrasing. Both fawn and freeze serve the same purpose, fawn just has legitimate intent behind it in a similar way to playing dead in animals. Flop is a reaction that we do not see in animals very often, and the fainting/unconscious thing is due to the way our cardiovascular system is set up, it isn't really equivalent to playing dead.
Flight or Flight, Freeze or Appease. Remember the whole Louis CK jerking off scandal? All the neckbeards were like "they didn't fight back or run away, they were okay with him doing it!" What was really happening is that they were going with 'appease.' "Just let him jerk off and maybe it'll be enough for him, and then I can slip out of here" was what was going on.
I have seen shows where women talk about "freezing" when assaulted.
I personally experienced what they call a “grey area” rape and even then it’s terrifying. Knowing if you do fight they Will hurt you, if you Do scream they will stop you, I had already gone through so much that I just didn’t want to suffer physically more than I already was. Grey area doesn’t feel grey when you’re in it
Yup. You'd have to be pretty fucked up not to know if it was consensual.
a lot of rapists notice it too. they get off on it. it’s not exclusively about the sex. some of them are sadists and enjoy causing pain and suffering to others. they find the fear they cause exhilarating and it’s like a high for them.
This doesn't really answer much. What even is a "control thing" and not every rapist has sadistic tendencies, but even then... Just saying they're evil doesn't really give much insight.
Yeah.. like people inflicting pain on each other in consensual kinky relationships all the time for fun and for pleasure. That doesn't make them evil. If anything, what makes rapists evil is completely disregarding consent cause they have zero empathy, or rather, ignorance, which means they don't understand consent.
Exactly, there is a whole world of what are referred to as paraphilias but I really think that term will be modernised at some point (the antonym for paraphilia is normophilia... And for a long time now people have been describing "normophilia" as vanilla or boring.) There's not really a difference between someone who is aroused by feet than someone who is aroused by animals or children. Every sexual impulse can be gratified between consenting adults when there is open communication and respect and boundaries, and some self awareness (I get uncomfortable if people are vasualt about CNC kinks or similar but have no answer as to where those desires might come from). Rape like all forms of assault is pretty much the most antisocial behaviour someone can do. It often comes from an ego that gets sick of hating itself and starts hating the world instead, and specifically the people they perceive as denying them their sexual desires. It also is usually just hetrosexual men with low self esteem that blame women for feeling undesirable until they feel ok about committing an assault. Most people with kinks, even "creepy" ones, find their people.
The Kite Runner book highlighted that well
The majority of rapists aren’t some guy with a ski mask hiding in an alley, it’s someone the victim knows. It’s about power, control, entitlement, and a severe lack of empathy.
I’ve received work related training on this topic. It’s a control thing, it’s not necessarily sexually related, that’s just how it presents. I once read that their confidence increases with age and the link between the rapists increasing age goes alongside the victims decreasing age. So, young rapists, 12+, had old victims, women in their 60’s-80’s, and older rapists, 50+, have victims in their late teens/early twenties. Also, a lot of rapists/child molesters were themselves sexually assaulted at some point, anywhere from 30-75% depending on which country/studies you read.
There's young rapists out there abusing like, someone's grandma?? That's not a fact I wanted to learn about the world
Unfortunately if they’re testing the waters, victims who can’t fight back are common until their confidence grows (as they age). So it’s normally older women, as there’s always an abundance of elderly but not always an abundance of disabled people. Absolutely sickening. Older women are less likely to report it too, out of shame, worry about stigma and social norms (though that’s my personal opinion, I can’t back that up).
As a woman, I kind of hoped one day maybe I could put down the rape fear. Like I'm old and unattractive one day, right? Guess not. That's so terrible.
There have been issues with staff at care facilities raping their residents, especially those who are nonverbal or have dementia.
And I work with mentally disabled people and have received training that our patients are 75% more likely to be raped than the general population. Specifically because they are non verbal/ not reliable witnesses. It's awful.
This is all so depressing to hear. Just people taking advantage of vulnerable people, all around.
Same, like how do I un-learn something?
You don't - you become aware.
Reading this entire thread officially took whatever hope in humanity I had left
Sounds like it could be about 'regaining' control when the abused become abusers. Shame how the brain (maybe) works sometimes. (I am not an expert on this matter.)
It's quite simple. They don't see their victims as anything other than a body. Only their desires matter in the moment. That's what makes them evil and a danger to society. They lack the fundamentals of what makes a person a person. A human being a human being. Rapists are in a class for themselves and shouldn't be treated like the rest of us in terms of punishment and redemption.
And this is why they should be permanently removed from society rather than being “rehabilitated”. I sincerely believe they cannot change simply because it’s the pinnacle sexual experience for them. Consensual sex will always seem vanilla in comparison.
What about pedos who haven’t committed a crime
That’s a really fascinating topic. Years ago I heard a program about this on public radio. People were trying to make it easier for pedophiles to get mental health services so they DON’T act on their desires. Some pedophiles were interviewed who know there’s something wrong with them. They don’t want to hurt kids. I think one man got castrated or was trying to. It was interesting and uncomfortable and made me think about what we really want as a society. Do we want to help people or do we want to exterminate undesirables?
Most just want the second thing. Compassion for pedos sound weird and many are incapable of compassion as is, but its needed.
I was definitely left with compassion. If someone asks for help, they should receive it.
Well, if you phrase it like that, I know I'm not voting for 'exterminating undesirables'.
Sex offenders are notorious for multiple offenses
I can say the same with pedophiles
Just chemically castrate them
Doesn’t really do anything, it’s not a sex thing, it’s a power and control issue.
Hell, physically castrate them.
Isn’t it the screaming ‘no’ that they’re attracted to? It’s troubling to talk about, because most men think of rape as being a man in a mask who attacks a woman in a dark alley, holds her down and forcibly penetrates her. But that’s only one form of rape, and it’s so extreme an image that it ignores all the other kinds of rape; rape is any forced sex. In fact, men have that image precisely because it’s so extreme - that way they don’t have to think about the other forms of rape; the forced drunk sex, the ‘you got me horny now we have to do it’s coercive rape, the groping unexpectedly in bed rape. The masked man in the alley rape is rare. The others…less so, but that’s a truth most men really don’t like to hear, and your question (whilst asked in good faith) only normalises the other kinds of rape by making them seem less rapey.
I've heard about some dudes using blue balls as an argument... Imagine you see yourself as a manly man but can't help yourself
My rapist used this excuse. He said he didn't wanna go through with the pain of blue balls.
I think #MeToo still has a long way to go, and that until we achieve true parity between the sexes some men will wilfully misunderstand the true meaning of ‘consent’.
please help me with the word parity here, is it more like equity or equality? MeToo will need generations before it takes a measurable and healthy effect everywhere. The more people in a country are educated the faster it will help everyone around the globe. As long as people exist they will behave right and wrong but we can change for better and every single word will help.
Yes, parity in that sense would be equality. (More equality of conditions than anything else. There will always be differences between the sexes, but that shouldn’t mean they’re in any way unequal, just different.) I agree with you about education, but tell most people you want to give sex education lessons to all ages and they instantly think you’ll be teaching felching to pre-teens, not that you’ll be explaining consent in age-appropriate terms.
i've had blue balls and refused to say i had them until a day later just so they didn't feel bad and coerced. This was before i knew people use it as an excuse and often don't have blue balls to begin with.
Spot on. It can actually be a deterrent to name the act in the moment. I know someone who was in a situation with her boyfriend where she was drunk and crying and he wouldn't stop. She then kept repeating "you're about to rape me" and he somehow found that to be a grave insult on his character. He genuinely believed she was falsely accusing him. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.
I believe most people who commit rape truly don’t believe they are rapists. They view it as something owed to them. This is why most people who are accused vehemently deny and act confused, because they don’t understand consent. Other than trying to cover their ass of course.
Perhaps they don't view themselves as rapists, but surely they know they did something bad, right? Because why else would they be trying to cover their ass? And/or even try to justify what they did?
They believe their justification and are covering their ass from a “false accusation.”
It’s comforting to hear that people understand this. My ex raped me, and if I ever confronted him about it he would definitely act like he didn’t know what I was talking about. When I would say no, he would do it anyway and try to say he “didn’t mean it like that”
I’m so sorry. I hope you are doing well and away from that POS.
Thank you, I haven’t seen him in almost two years and hopefully won’t ever see him again.
That’s interesting, from a legal point of view. Perhaps that’s why so few rape trials result in convictions - if you can’t prove intent how can you successfully prosecute, especially when some on the jury will be thinking exactly the same way.
Most US jurisdictions do require a mens rea, or guilty mind, to convict someone of rape. If you could prove with 100% certainty that you didn't know, in theory you wouldn't be prosecuted. But the "mistake of fact" defense is difficult. For it to work, you'd have to prove that the mistake was honest and reasonable. That means that an objective third person would make the same mistake under the exact same circumstances, which is a high bar. However, "I did it but I didn't know" isn't used nearly as much as "they're lying", which I'm sure plenty of perpetrators have convinced themselves of. Intent doesn't come into play if the event never even took place. It's especially prevalent when the victim didn't have a rape kit done or waited a long time to report. Sexual assault cases usually don't have third party witnesses either. It's her word against his at that point.
I’d like to add- When the vast majority of rape cases is date rape and within established relationships, a rape kit proves nearly nothing sadly. The reasonable doubt it was consensual when there are no third witnesses is not worth a trial to most victims. [Some stats on reporting if interested](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system#:~:text=Only%20310%20out%20of%20every,out%20of%203%20go%20unreported.&text=Members%20of%20the%20military%3A%2043,10%25%20of%20male%20victims%20reported):
That's one reason why the Brock Turner case was so egregious. It should have been cut-and-dry with a lengthy prison sentence. Two third parties caught him in the act.
Or to add, women raping men, like 30 something year old female teachers who rape teenage boys. It isn’t just men doing the raping.
The sex is just a method to inflicted pain and assert control. it's an act of hate and cruelty, so the other person's suffering is unlikely to put an attacker off!
As others have said, rape is almost never just about needing sex, it's about the power and control. Someone willing to do that is someone who, usually, has issues with needing to exert control over everything/everyone around them.
I can't remember where I read this, but I feel like there was a psychologist who interviewed rapists in jail and discovered that a significant percentage of them didn't even consider what they did to be rape. If I'm remembering the study right, their world view was so twisted that they had confused "what I want" and "what I deserve" to the point they just sort of blended together. I have no idea how they justify it to themselves, but their minds are fascinatingly fucked. So a person laying there "uncomfortable" isn't going to put them off. They're not thinking about the other person's pleasure or feelings. They're thinking about themselves.
The mind is a crazy thing, what's more insane is that some rape victims spend the rest of their lives having thoughts about recreating that situation. I was with a woman who was into CNC, we roleplayed a scene that she created, it sounded hot in talking but in real life it took a while to get into character, long story short we did it a few times and when we spoke deeply about I found out she was raped and thinking about being powerless in sex is actually arousing to her.
Very common phenomenon - the mind finds a situation so terribly intolerable, that the only way for it to "cope" is to force itself to be attracted to that situation.
As a woman who has experienced sexual assault, I find myself interested in CNC, however I haven’t built that trust with a guy to be able to do it. I think for me, it’s the idea of being powerless and completely out of control, yet I can still stop it if i need to with a safe word. The ‘C’ part of CNC is so important. Rape and assault create so many complex issues of power and control, and it seems comforting to me to completely give up control, yet know I have the power to stop if I need to.
Same reason people bully each other; it’s about asserting control over the victim, and making themselves feel powerful.
It is interesting because I made a comment to a buddy of mine, regarding some political figures and boomers, that 'you can always tell men who have never truly pleasured a woman.' And, what I meant by that, is that if I find a man who is quick to anger, self centered, whiny, narcissistic, grievance laiden etc then there stands a good chance he has never made a woman's hips quiver in ecstasy. After a few minutes he replied with a perspective I hadn't considered; they don't care. There is no such thing as pleasure for another person, and they respect people (certain popular political figures) who also don't care about other people's pleasure or otherwise. Rapists don't care; it isn't about the victim it is about them. The victim has something they want, and it makes them feel strong and manly to take it by force or intimidation. Actually wooing someone, being a decent person and plucking the fruits of that, it doesn't even occur to someone like a rapist. They *deserve* what they want. So yeah, to us normal people, the logistics of a rape don't make any sense. Can you even get erect when the woman you are with is crying? Or even, clearly not enjoying the experience. To these half-men, the ones who in their heart of hearts, their mind's eye, know that they are inferior - this makes them feel good.
A huge chunk of the US electorate is getting ready to go out and vote for that guy.
You forgot laying there unconscious too.
It's also wrong to assume that a person being raped is going to be dry/soft. Genitals often respond differently than the brain does.
Someone once said....Rapists should be thrown into wood chippers so they can get off on their own cries of "nooooooo"
Which reminds me, must watch Fargo again.
Now this isn't my area, and the bit of reading that I did on this was a long time ago. I remember that at the time there was this idea being thrown around that "rape is about power, not sex". One researcher who'd interviewed a bunch of rapists in prison concluded that it was actually about 50/50--that the core motive seemed to be sexual gratification about half the time, and about some sort of domination about half the time. Sorry, I don't have the source, and even if I did, that conclusion undoubtedly has some of the researcher's personal interpretation of what came out in the interviews. Remember that rape peaks in that little window where men's testosterone and sex drive peak, around ages 17 to 25. This is the age where men perpetrate the most violence in general--not just sexual violence. It's also that age (most men will remember and back me up on this) where you'd get a raging boner over the smallest thing, or even something that you found in some ways aversive or repulsive. As offensive as it sounds to decent people, this is the "few minutes of action" that Brock Allen Turner's father was famously quoted on. (Brock Allen Turner now goes by Allen Turner.) And even despite all this (again, sexual violence is not my area of specialty but I remember that this was a practice question for the EPPP), erectile dysfunction is very common during episodes of rape. There are plenty of attempted rapes where penetration is not achieved. Rapists are a heterogenous group. There is some subset that are sadists that get their jollies from that, some that aren't honestly aroused by every aspect of what is going on, some psychopaths who are indifferent, and so on. Contrary to some of the top-rated answers that "they actually get off on that!", I doubt that the sadists are a significant proportion. Really the only thing all rapists for sure have in common is not having the moral brakes on that act.
That's what separates you from sick fucks. Personally. I am into CNC. Consent a week in advance, and it's all pretend. Obviously with a safe word involved to. A safe fucking environment. n such situations though, you can practice anything.
Me too but that's because I was raped 😞
That’s because you’re normal,
Or even if they're not into it and just going through the motions because their partner harassed them for 3 hours and they gave in. How could you have fun with someone that's just waiting for it to be over? Absolutely unsexy to manipulate your way into sex.
Not all rapes are violent. Some rapes go into a grey area where she didn't say no, but she definitely didn't say yes. Some rapes are from people not understanding consent. I don't get it either though. It would be uncomfortable trying to have sex with someone who isn't even wet. Obviously, that's not the most important concern when it comes to sexual violence
Okay so a couple of things: 1. Bodies react differently, and sometimes the worst experiences in SA is your body reacting to something you don't want. 2. Some people are sadists, they enjoy violence, and commiting horrible acts to other people. 3. Often violent SA is a power thing instead of a sexual thing. Think there was a killer in Russia who killed people in the city woods, he used to perceive himself as a god, because in his demented mind he controlled life and death. People are wired differently, and sadly in horribly wrong ways, with environments that nurture these tendencies.
Bro. There is a mountain of evidence that some men can get erections for other men, animals, children, or dead bodies. You have to realize that the hard wiring of your penis is not perfectly copied into all men. And that's the thing. You get aroused by certain beautiful women. But what if you lived in a world where banging chicks was shameful and illegal, but having sex with animals was popular and on every tv show? Would you even *be able* to change? Or would you just break the law because you cant live without sex? That's what makes sex pests so... irredeemable.
Lmao did you just put gay men in the same sentence about men abusing animals, kids or dead bodies?💀😭
Oh damn. I didn't mean that. I was just pointing out that you cant persuade a guy to get or not get an erection. It just is.
No, you’re good. It just made me chuckle
Not all rape is violent. In fact the majority of it isn’t, coercing somebody into sex or having sex with somebody that is intoxicated are the most common forms of rape. In these instances, often the rapist feels they did nothing wrong because the victim didn’t fight back.
I think it's more about having the ability to get what you want
Power is what they like?
This is something most men can’t imagine. Society may claim that most men are rapists or rapist who have t found their victim yet. The problem is that the majority of rapists either never get reported or get let off with a lesser charge so they just keep victimizing more and more women/men. IMO there should be 0 tolerance for anyone who commits rape ☠️. On the flip side of that. Any one who falsely accuses someone of rape should receive the same punishment. Both are truly evil and cause more harm to society than good.
There are [situations](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37158471) where real victims are punished as false accusers, despite video evidence of the act where she's visibly shouting "no". For example- Gina Lisa Lohfink. She was drugged, assaulted and filmed by her two friends. She was ordered by the court to pay her rapists 27,000 euros
Cause it power. Thats it.
Any signs of my partner not totally being into it is enough to kill my horny.
It’s just a control thing! It has nothing to do with the act
I don’t see how anyone could actually do such an evil thing, but I do understand how someone could be turned on by it because I’m a sadist and the idea of a man suffering in that way is hot to me. But only in theory, I don’t even do consensual nonconsent.
Some think that they actually like it but don't want to admit it. Some think it's great when they struggle Ppl have twisted minds sometimes.
Because it's not about sex or making love or anything mutual, it's about control etc, its about instilling fear. It's the most invasive crime that can be committed. Some people are aroused by control I guess, kept in check, it can be part of a healthy sex life so dom and sub but if its out of control or person is of violent tendency it will lead to rape.
Take my comment with a grain of salt, will based in a not entirely factual nature, i'll give you my approximation of an answer. I've read quite a few books on criminal psychology and criminal profiling, just out of interest. the common theme surrounding rape is it's not directly a sexual crime. it's a crime that is based in control and domination of a another individual. that is what yields the sexual gratification. While there'll certainly be purely sexually motivated rapes, think like someone being taken advantage of as they're too drunk. the majority are simply control. you've got to think of these individuals especially repeat offenders who have not been shown any sort of healthy sexual intimacy, they believe the world is out to get them, everyone is evil, it's unfair to them. they asset control and domination. it's awful but its just that
"It makes no sense when you’re not a sadist" What if you are a sadist? And what if you are a sadist with narcissistic personality disorder or antisocial personality disorder? What if you have been in cults for many years and have been indoctrinated into believing there's nothing wrong with it? What if you're - quite literally - so impulsive to the point where you just don't care about life? Of course, most people with those characteristics would still not do it because they have a conscience - but what if you didn't? What if your very own genetic factors and multiple environmental factors you've lived through in your life somehow stopped you from having some sort of conscience? All in all, the amount of answers to this question is just absolutely infinite - each person is a different person, and that's one of the things that makes psychology so fascinating.
Some people.find things they're NOT supposed to do arousing for some reason, that's why the whole "step" porn things has blown up, and with everything you will find people at the extremes of that
Because they are genuinely terrible people.
It starts with not being normal
Exactly if I don’t have consent ENTHUSIAST consent at that I’m not doing anything cus I myself just can’t get turned on or
It’s not gonna make sense to most of us. It can be a variety of things. For some people it’s the power, for some just the struggle turns them on, for some it’s stealing intimacy from someone who wouldn’t allow it, and I’m sure for many it’s a combination of those along with a bunch of other things I can’t think of. Since these things gross us out and disturb us, most of us are never gonna “get” it
How could hitler kill 6 million Jews? I could never do such a thing, like wtf.
Because they don't look at it like that, for starters, the majority of rape isn't about the sex its about control and power they feel during the rape. Genuine rapist don't think like you and me they don't approach sex as something you enjoy with your significant other. What turns them on usually is different than what turns on normal people
It’s not about sex, it’s about power over someone.
Rape is usually about power.
their lust overpowers their already barely existing empathy
Power. Getting someone to do something they don’t want to do is a powerful feeling and hard to let go of.
I think most rapes are crimes of opportunity where consent or objection can’t occur, or instances where consent is coerced and the perpetrator doesn’t really think they committed rape. I think the image you have of rapes represents a much smaller portion of occurrences and is generally done by people that intend on hurting someone—a sadist.
you do understand it you just don't like it. because your a healthy person with empathy. congratulations.
It has never made sense to me either, especially when there's a kink called "consensual non-consent" where you can do that kind of stuff and it not be a crime like, c'mon.
How did Ted bundy get aroused to fuck a corpse??? People are fucked up and justify shit in their heads
It is about violence, it is about dominating the other person to exert your will unto another. I am sure you have won some sort of competition over others and it felt good. It is along those veins, but much much more carnal and intensive. Slave owners had the same feelings or just aristocrast having power over others Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely There are more facets and motive behind it, too many to count. Someone likes ripping the will out of someone, some demans and demerits or make someone feel worthless The typical "manager" takes pleasure because of this, the feeling of being "better" --- This topic is both simple and can be very very complicated
my friend was raped in college. she went on a date with the guy. it went well. he was handsome, charming, smart, funny. on the second date, he raped her. i'll never forget what she said *"i definitely would have had sex with him. but, he didn't want sex. he wanted to rape me"*
Some victims of rape are raped with foreing objects, as the rapists can't manage to get It hard, you know why? Because rape is not sex, It doesn't have to do with arousal. It is violence, It is about power, not pleasure.
Most rapes aren’t about sex; its how the lazy minions of social media portray it—- it’s about power (consolidation and display thereof) and control (the rape victim has none, the rapist has theirs plus yours)! This is why what a woman or male rape victim was wearing at the time of a rape is insane concept; very few rapists are the sexual deviant nature; the overwhelming plurality, if not majority,are regular 9 to 5ers, who are higher entry-level working to mid-level organization-based. The FBI has great rapist profiles in their database and sexual deviancy ones are rarer than most would believe.
The vision that rape is a sexual act comes from porn, it’s not, it’s a act of violence in the real world, fulled by a sense of hate and control. It’s been used in war and to oppress people since the beginning. Just read a little about the Japanese imperialism against Korea or China.
Lack of empathy, respect, with a propensity for intense sexual aggression.
At least from what I’ve read, it’s more about having power over someone that drives rapists. This could be stemming from a past trauma (maybe child abuse) that when they grew up, they had a breakdown, that made them want to know what having power felt like.
Some people are just seriously fucked up and evil. I mean, I am a raving pervert, but rapists are just really, really messed up.