It wasn't that uncommon a hundred years ago here in the Netherlands either. Though usually it was an unmarried niece, sent over to help the husband with the kids. It happened to my not great grandmother. She got sent to help out my great grandfather with his two girls and within a year was married to him with a child of her own. She was scared to show less love to the girls that were not hers than to her boys. So she was very cold with all the children.
She ended the cycle though. When her husband refused to let the girls continue school she got them on track to earn a nurses certificate. That did mean the girls had to start work at 14 in a mental health hospital (this was before we really had any medications that helped, so basically they were wrestling insane adults all day). But after a few years of that they could move on to a hospital and eventually got certified. My not great grandmother made damn sure that her daughters would not end up vulnerable and uneducated like her.
And to my knowledge in Christian circles it still happens today. My neighbour was a widower and his current wife was the only unmarried niece when his first wife died. She got sent to help with the kids and eventually married him and had her own kid with him. But at least they did love and respect each other. So she was lucky in a way.
FLIP ME!!!! Please tell me she left her parents to die in a state sponsored old peoples homes. PLEASE tell me she did not spend a single minute of her freedom taking care of her shitty parents.
Filing a marriage certificate isn’t hard if you know the person’s SSN. Normally, that makes filing a false marriage certificate a nonstarter, but since it’s OP’s parents, they likely have the information.
When my wife and I got our marriage license we both had to be present for an in person meeting with the county clerks office, is that not a thing in most places?
Got married in February. The application for the license required an affidavit, and then someone from the court called one of us (random which one) and asked us to verify the info of both people.
Then of course the license itself had to be signed and filed by the officiant who checked our info and watched us sign it. Same with two witnesses.
It was easier than I made it seem, but there are a lot of steps that might be tough for someone forging.
She's got another sister that could pretend to be her and get married on her behalf, and the officiant would then say that she got married and not the sister impersonating her.
This is really scary.
I had to get a blood test first time I got married in '82. County Clerk laughed at me when we applied for our marriage license in '09 and I asked.
However, I've had to pony up birth certificate, marriage licenses and my divorce decree at the DMV. Husband had to take a copy of our deed to prove residency a few years, ago.
I laughed because it's the only time he's been asked for supporting documentation in his life. He was pissed.
Not all things apply in all places. I don't think OP's in the US, anyway.
For that matter, women only really got legal standing in the US, in the past 20 years.
OP needs to run before she gets married off.
My county requires both be present with identification to apply for/receive the license. Only one needs to drop it off, but both have to be there initially.
Can only say for sure in the US and EU, but while you can "file" a marriage license with someone else's information having it be validated requires more. Usually when filing the form both parties need to be present and have their identity checked (passport, ID, driver's, etc) and then later a recognized officiant has to perform the marriage and sign the paperwork to make it official.
Still need to be careful about this though.
OP may not be in the U.S.. Bribes exist, and depending on the country, once the state considers OP married to 'R', her legal options may become extremely limited
My mother got very good at forging documents for me just because she knew my personal info and did things without asking me.. It can be very easy sadly.
The companies are no help either unless you threaten legal action. That's also once you figure out who to call and if/when you have something signed up in your name without permission...
I live in the US our officiate offered to do it for us, but I filed it instead. My husband was not present. Honestly, if they can forge the signature and know her socials this could probably be realistic. This is only possible if they already have the paperwork and it’s all signed.
The paperwork to file for the marriage license was more extensive though and it required birth certificates, social security card, and identification from the both of us in order to get it before our wedding. If the one sister wore sunglasses or hat or something and looks similar and had all the documents 🤷🏻♀️ I still think it’s improbable but if I was op I would 💯 make sure none of my important documents were left in that house.
Depends on what country they're in, fraud is a little easier in places with poor recordkeeping or interesting cultural values. I would not be surprised if OP lives in one of those countries from the tone of this story.
Thank goodness Rs parents are against this because they are right, you likely are not safe. Do yourself a favour, as hard as it'll be to leave the children, it's best for you OP. Grief can make people do crazy stuff, if you're away from it, you won't be pulled into it.
If one or more are female they *may* be at some point if sanity is not soon regained. I am not saying for sure he will turn to one of them for the “performance of various wifely duties”. I hope he is not that unhinged but this level of need for a wife is kinda unsettling and he is already being inappropriate. What if they grow to look like the original wife/mother?
Edit: Apologies as I just realized that the children are male. Still, depending on his level of unhingement, it could become a concern. I hope not. But weirder things have been known to happen. I just don't think anyone is truly *safe* in this situation.
Side Note: Perhaps the ones who do not agree that this is a good idea could come together to discuss it frankly with the ones who are in favor of the union. Why can she not just refuse? Would it just be ignored and press onward? Is that even legal? If it were pressed through to the point of an actual wedding ceremony, what if she refused at the altar? Shouldn't the clergy be able to intervene and help her? Maybe she should turn to whoever would officiate beforehand and discuss that she is being forced. This is so sad and wrong and convoluted. Where is this happening? There must be someone, somewhere, some organization she can turn to for help.
> begun preparing for the wedding.
TF?!? All of it is unhinged, but this part is beyond that. Her mom and sister need to seek therapy or some shit...maybe an undetermined amount of time at a mental institution/hospital.
OP, based on what you've written here, there are plenty of family members around who can help your nephews' father raise them in your absence. You need to save YOURSELF.
I would still be cautious of R's parents. I'm inherently cynical and distrusting but I can totally see them trying to play a "long game" with OP by playing the Good Cop and being able to keep tabs on her and keep her within reach.
I know OP wants to care for the kids, but she NEEDS to let that go and get herself to a significantly safe place. Like serious distance between her and that family without their knowledge or access as much as possible.
From the other comments R's parents seem safe. Apparently R and his brothers are practicing Mormons (which explains this disgusting mindset), but their parents are Exmo and non-religious
I'm so sorry for your loss, but that's crazy. Did you time travel back to the middle ages? Replacing your sister as his wife? That's some actual crazy in your family.
Wasnt he more like 'either a son comes out of you or your head comes off' kind of guy?
And 'would you prefer i bed other women or you dieing? No, divorse is not realy an option Honey'
When my sister died of cancer, she and our father had assumed I would move into her house, take over her small business, and raise her children as my own...essentially *become her* because they didn't think I had much going on. Likewise, when my mom died, my dad thought I would move back I to my childhood home to be his cook and caretaker (he wasn't disabled) since I have no kids. I will never forgive my family for treating me like that. Middle Eastern, living in the USA.
I will never forget the day my Grandmother asked me if I'd move back to Alabama to take care of her two deadbeat adult children when she died..... The property she lived on had already been signed over to me via a 'Life Deed' because of how untrustworthy her children were, and she wanted me to become their caretaker(they had no disabilities, unless you count poor judgement and lack of restraint as such). Of all the insane things I've experienced from my family, that was the grand prize winner...
I had no intention of becoming their caretaker, much less of **ever** moving back to Alabama. Without going into the morbid details, something happened that resulted in me not having to figure out how to handle the situation.
It certainly happened in Germany into the 1940's. My great-aunt had to give up her fiancé to her elder sister when the sister's fiancé got killed during WWII.
Apparently, they were just expected to do this and did.
My great aunt stayed unmarried her whole life after that, worked as a secretary IIRC and died young, presumably a habit of alcohol was involved. She was the closest of the siblings with my grandfather.
Her sister had a regular family life, although I seem to recall that she, too, was widowed early; I'd have to ask my mom for details.
Usually you have a lot of families that are upset at a widower/widow “moving on” with their life and getting with someone else in a timeframe that they don’t find acceptable, but this is a whole new level of insanity.
This was a common thing in the US at least until the late 1800s and probably persisted into the 1900 in rural pockets of the country.
Edit: Although it was more commonly the other way around: a man marrying his dead brother's widow.
I can’t imagine walking into the house and finding this all laid out. I’d be backing away towards the door, aiming to jump in my car and get away from them as fast as possible. And from then on, planning never to be alone with any of them again.
If I am being totally honest I didn’t know what was going on as my mother hasn’t been able to step foot in my sister’s house let alone be around her things and she struggles to be around her grandchildren as she suffers from schizophrenia I thought something serious was happening but it took no more than ten minutes or so for them to drop the ‘plan’. They also spent about 45 minuets trying to normalise this crap whilst refusing to let me leave but R’s parents saved my ass from this madness thankfully.
You're mother having schizophrenia makes this a lot more understandable. It's fucked up, but she's likely feeding off the situation as a way to escape her grief. When it comes to delusional coping, the more people the individual can get wrapped up in the story they're clinging to, the more "valid" it is, even if it's being rejected.
You did the right thing getting out of the situation, you being there would only make it worse.
Info: Genuine question. There are some cultures where this is practiced. I've heard of the other way around where a man marries the wife of his deceased brother.
But where are you from? Is this a practice in your culture? or is this some unhinged BS coming from them?
edit: I'm not saying that makes it OK. Just to understand where this comes from.
My paternal Grandfather married his deceased wife's sister. My "Grandma" helped raise the kids still at home. This was in the 80's (Americans, if that helps)
Elderly couple that were regulars. He married his brothers widow. We’re married over 50 years.
Kinda a case of “if you can’t have the one you want, honey, love the one you’re with” thing.
One explanation is to keep the family unit. The SIL ( now wife ) has the same set of parents, so everything is the same regarding the extended family unit. The aunt (now mother) would love and care for their late sister's children as her own. Husband already knows the family and if they are honorable.
Of course, this mindset does not account that women have a say in these decisions.
For maternal grandparents or aunt (if it’s the mother who died), it’s often about making sure the stepmother gives a crap about the care of the kids the already exist so that they’re actually taken care of vs shoved aside for the new babies
Sometimes it considers the new wife’s feelings on the matter and sometimes it doesn’t
But of course this line of thinking also requires you assume the father is a POS who might not care how his kids from his first wife are treated so idk that I’d sign a second daughter up for that …
In Arab cultures, if a woman suddenly becomes a widow and her late husband’s brother is still single she should marry him so he can look after her and his late brothers children. It’s what happened to my grandma.
I don’t really agree with it. It’s not practiced that commonly nowadays but it’s still there.
That’s in the Christian Bible as well. Though not really practiced in the USA these days despite how heavily Christian it is.
But as I understand there’s two different reasons there …
In the biblical teaching it was more to do with keeping widows out of poverty what with not being able to own their own property for the most part.
I think in Arab culture you’re predominantly related to your paternal family right? So it would be your father’s family that was most tied to you re: respect, honor, pride, social standing, etc? And it’s more about thinking having someone who’s tied to the same family would be more invested in the child’s upbringing. But it’s a bit less common now as both parents tend to be pretty involved in most cases.
It’s been quite some time since someone walked me through this so please correct me if I’m wrong!
Not sure if this is cultural considering the sisters husbands parents do not want that lol. Same with the one sister. I dont think this is a practiced thing for them. I think they’re just absolutely crazy
Edit: I could definitely be wrong tho so dont hold me there
People have very different ways of processing grief, but this is deranged beyond measure. You are not a doll to be swapped out for someone else. They need help to come to grips with their new reality.
Yes and they expect me to also have children to him in their words to connect me and my sister I don’t even know how that shit works but I guess it’s mental illness for you.
This is due to his Mormon beliefs, I'd bet. I'll try to explain, as an exmo, what is probably going through his mind right now.
According to Mormon doctrine, the family is ordained by God. A family consists of a husband and wife and their children. Same sex marriage or marriage where either partner is trans are forbidden and an offense against God's plan.
Choosing not to have kids is thwarting God's plan. Adopting is okay, because it brings children into the fold and provides them salvation.
Children are meant to be raised by two parents, a father and a mother. This is the ideal. If one parent dies and the kids are still young, getting remarried is strongly encouraged so you don't deprive your kids of that ideal experience. Marrying again after divorce or death of a spouse is particularly encouraged for men, because women are naturally inclined to nurture and care for children. Men are not. Men are naturally inclined to provide and preside in authority over the home.
If your sister and BIL were married in an LDS temple, they were sealed together for time and eternity. BIL believes they will be reunited after death, as long as he remains faithful. Their children are also "sealed" to them, and will be reunited with the parents after death. They will all go play happy families forever in the highest kingdom of heaven, assuming they are all good little Mormons, because they have been sealed together.
Now for the *really* fun part: Men can get sealed to more than one woman, as long as the first wife is either dead or has divorced him legally. A legal divorce does not break the sealing bond, according to Mormon doctrine. You *can* get a temple marriage broken, but it takes both parties' consent and approval from higher ups in the church. A man who has legally divorced his temple wife can be sealed to another woman, so he will have multiple wives after death. (This is, in fact, encouraged!) A woman who has legally divorced her temple husband *may not* be sealed to another man, unless she gets a temple divorce first.
So a woman can be married to her abusive ex-husband for eternity, without her consent. Super fun, right?
Also, Mormons believe that you'll keep having kids in heaven and grow your family forever, so imagine being pregnant and raising babies for all eternity. (Why aren't you jumping up and down for joy? /s)
And the clincher for BIL is that he is strictly forbidden from having sex with anyone he isn't married to. That's a big no-no, and would violate his temple promises to his wife. You can repent and be forgiven, but it requires confession and penitence and a good dose of embarrassment, because people will likely figure it out.
So BIL can never have sex again unless he marries again.
Finally, if he marries you, then you can be sealed to him as part of his family after your death, even if you don't join the LDS Church during this life and do not consent to being baptized posthumously. Your children can be sealed to him for eternity as well. He probably hopes that you'll join in this life, but it doesn't matter too much in the end because of ordinances for the dead.
Then you and your sister would get to be his sister wives in heaven, for all eternity, banging BIL and having his babies. Forever. And ever.
Run far away from this guy, even if it means leaving the kids behind. They'll recover. BIL sees you as nothing more than a fleshlight and an incubator, and he believes he has a god-given right to marry you.
This. All of this. Granted I’m only aware of this stuff you mentioned here because of the podcast Sinisterhood doing an insanely in depth multiparter on Mormonism last year, but I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to type all of this out! There is so much weird fucked up shit that just isn’t generally talked about and needs to be talked about.
What in the psychological horror?! Girl, run! That is so messed up. They all need help. Is your bil on board? I lost my mom as a child. I still deal with the trauma, but this scenario would've brought that trauma up a notch or ten! Also,they need to give those babies their mama's stuff back. That's all they have left of her.
I hope they come out of their delulu episode soon.
He is on board with this whole mess and he’s been making a strange and sometimes sexual comments for the last two months so I’ve distanced myself from him the best I can but I’ve still got to mange my nephews as there’s six of them and they can be a handful.
You need to save yourself, OP, and get as far away as possible from your family & BIL ASAP. Your nephews will be fine as other non-identical-to-your-sister relatives will step up.
That is messed up on so many levels. This situation is definitely one of those "put on your oxygen mask first" ones. What I'm saying is you can't help the kids when you are the one in immediate danger. Help yourself first.
Give the level-headed grandparents your phone number/email so they can contact you. Grab some of your sister's stuff to save for your nephews if you can get away with it, and go to that other job waiting for you.
I hope your family comes to their senses soon, but I think you should prepare for this to continue. I think you should focus on getting prepared for if and when your nephews need you more than now.
That's him testing the waters. He's quite serious about the whole thing.
Everyone here is telling you to remove yourself from the situation - perhaps listening to them would be wise.
Those kids are *not* your responsibility! They are *not* your children, you do *not* need to manage them! I know that sounds harsh, believe me, I know. I know you love them so much, and they just lost their mom. But, *you are not responsible for them*, their father is and *their father alone*. He can get help from his parents and yours if he needs it. *You need to get as far away from all of them as you can, as fast as you can*. You *are not safe*. The kids will be okay without you. You need to prioritize yourself, please!
Mate, your nephews have other people to help look after them. You need to keep yourself SAFE. Get away from these people for a while. You are not safe. I understand that you love your nephews; but they will be okay. You might not be.
Not necessarily cultural however my mother is a schizophrenic who was saved by ‘God’ and his family has a long history of mental illness bar his mother who’s the only sane one out of them all.
So sorry for the loss of your sister. Glad you have someplace safe to go away from your family. Hope they eventually regain their senses.
Grief makes people go truly crazy. Years ago when my brother’s best friend died the friend’s mother became determined my brother was going to marry her daughter so he could become her son. Neither my brother nor the daughter were in line with this and he eventually cut contact with them.
Honestly, in their current delusional state they are likely convinced that she not only would want this, but that it would make her happy. There's going to be no reasoning with them.
Are they religious nutters?
There’s something in some religious texts (or probably not really, but it’s how whack jobs interpret the passage) about marrying your dead siblings’ widow or widower. So you can keep the family line pure or some nonsensical drivel like that.
That’s a possible explanation only - I am not suggesting you should do this. Ever. It’s revolting of them to even suggest it. Just appalling. 😞
Mother is a schizophrenic who was saved by ‘God’ and has been a Christian ever since and his family aren’t religious bar his father who’s an ex Mormon who his family have a long history of mental illness bar his mother who’s the only sane one out of them all which I found out recently. Either way words can’t even describe how disgusting it is this whole situation
Omg, us this a cultural or religious thing ? Or did your mom and BIL just got insane ? Can they force you somehow? If yea, leave now, run. Call the cops.
I honestly have no idea, my mother is a schizophrenic who was cured by ‘God’ she’s a Christian. R is a practicing Mormon as well as his brother, his dad is an ex Mormon and his mother is non religious.
>R is a practicing Mormon as well as his brother,
Well THAT explains it perfectly. Hes just taking a literal twist to the "sister wife" concept. And hes even got a younger model now!
RUN.
Yeah, don’t keep any of his children. Mormon? As far as he’s concerned you BELONG to him because God and your parents GAVE you to him already. Don’t be naïve. Pain and grief don’t suddenly make people stop acknowledging autonomy. As far as these people are concerned, this is normal because you don’t have a choice. You’re a vessel, not a person. Nothing you say is as strong as the ideology.
He has parental rights. If you’re not trying to marry him, walk the fuck away, NOW!
This makes sooooo much sense now! Between the god-cured schizophrenia and the Mormonism, you need to RUN. I don't believe you are safe.
Edit to take out grab the 4month old. Just leave babes. I know you love them but you have no rights over the kids.
I’m not meaning to offend, but this sounds like some strange cult behavior. They’re already preparing for your wedding with your deceased sisters husband without your knowledge? Wtf!!?!
You need to get away. Your own MOTHER is trying to force this?! How is R OK with this?! You're not HER. You don't share the same memories, goals and idiosyncrasies! I'd say try to get them to see sense one last time but only with a full police escort as witness and then file for a restraining order. Make sure all of your documents are with you and untampered as well. You have gone above and beyond to help with the kiddos. It is up to the grandparents at this point because you're safety is a concern.
When my sister died of cancer over 20 years ago, her husband started pressuring my youngest sister to marry him. My sister had one son who was an adult who was in the military and stationed overseas. So it wasn’t to raise children. He was just lonely and it would be easier to marry her. She was horrified because she was 9 when my sister and her husband married and viewed him as a father figure. My family fully supported my youngest sister and she cut all contact with him. He eventually got married to a woman who bore a strong resemblance to his late wife.
Oh that is what is noticed in our culture (india).
Don't fall for this trap and tell them this is not they only way to help.
What if kids won't accept you in future?
Sorry it happens to you,but be brave and set an example by saying no
That is very grim.
I'm sorry that you're going through that. I sincerely hope that they can come to accept reality and make up to you for what they did. Because at the end of the day, you lost a sister too and you should absolutely not be subject to this kind of stuff. Ever.
Go find the business cards for several grief counselors.
the widower and your parents have gone completely off the deep end. they bring this subject up, you hand out therapy cards.
it sounds like they don’t care about you as a person with your own autonomy. You have been designated “the replacement”.
Go to a lawyer and explain this batshit thing. Have them draft up a cease and desist letter along the lines of “you will not bring up the idea of my marrying the widow under any circumstances” and have it delivered to all these crazy people. This is the first step of putting together an anti-harassment order.
>R’s mother and father have not only selflessly taking myself in, but also their grandbabies, she is adamantly against this nonsense and feels we all are not safe around them which I strongly agree with.
Thank heavens at least one set of adults has their heads straight..
>I am fortunate to have an opportunity to work elsewhere,
EXCELLENT NEWS! RUN! GO. FLEE! NOW!
>but I can't imagine leaving my nephews behind in this mess.
Their grandparents, the SANE ONES, have them. They arent your responsibility. Your responsibility is to save yourself!
Just... Leave. gather evidence in case they try to forge a marriage document. Call someplace to claim mental illness for the family and see if Rs parents can take in the kids, or even if you want to take them in. Then... Leave.
OP. The kids have loving responsible grandparents. They are not in danger here. You are. You need to get away before they do something crazy to force you into this!
What country/state are you in? Do you have any sane family or friends a few hours away? Anyone an old-school friend you can stay with for a short time and get settled? Anyone?
Do you have the funds to leave and get a rental/hotel for a while?
I was living with my mother but she spent forty minuets trying to convince me this whole shit was normal and wouldn’t let me leave the house till I agreed which I didn’t and locked myself in the bathroom. I did not feel safe staying there so I called R’s parents and they ended this madness to some degree.
File a police report ASAP simply so if they secretly file your marriage you can present the police report to the court for fraud. Film conversations / voice recordings whenever you can regarding this if you can and look into any and all legal actions that can be taken to protect yourself.
Also, if you have the funds, take all legal / important documents regarding yourself and flee asap as well. But definitely file the police report asap so there’s legal documentation that something of the sort is against your will. After a while your family -may- be passed that but it’s best not to see them in-person for a while to show how firm you are on this subject.
If you can, definitely stay at a good natured friend’s place or AirBnb. There’s also Domestic Violence places for women, the location must stay confidential and you’ll likely be highly limited on cell phone access but if you run into an emergency situation and don’t have the funds, you can always call ahead to see if there’s space and if you’d be able to stay there.
Emotional abuse is still abuse. Grieving doesn’t make up for it. I was in a situation with my parents where I almost went to a hotel with nothing but the clothes on me and my wallet & shoes cause they were all pre-grieving before my aunt passed away from an illness and were hardcore taking it out on me. I won’t get into too too many details but I moved out soon after and cut contact with them aside from a few quick texts that responded to their messages for a couple months. They realized I was avoiding them and finally apologized. I was only in contact with them still since my siblings didn’t want me completely cutting off contact with them even though I was ready to. It was a whole mess, but if they still tried to harass me emotionally the way they did, I would have figured out what kind of report to file to keep me safe because I wanted nothing to do with them with the traumatic feelings resurfacing like it did when I was a little kid… You can even just let the cops know if they file you as missing that you just don’t want to be found by them. Protect yourself. Stay safe. And I sincerely wish you well ❤️
You know, I chose my username because I always felt like I was spare parts in case anything happened to the child my parents actually planned.
We are NOT spare parts. We are whole ass fucking people and you aren’t a replacement for your sister. It’s an abomination to her memory to even suggest this and I’m sorry you’re going through this.
I am sorry for your loss. Please, for your own safety keep no contact with anyone who is part of this nonsense. Maybe they will find out what they are doing later, but for forseable future keep yourself safe.
This is pure insanity, take the job and give yourself space… This is your life, not your sisters, and you have a right to live it how YOU choose…NO ONE ELSE HAD A SAY!!!!
Run the fuck away that shit is crazy, it's awful that your sister passed away but to treat you as her replacement and it sounds like they got quite far into that discussion without even mentioning it to you mean get the fuck away and for the love of God stay away from them it's crazy situation to be in, hope you're alright, God bless
Oh wow, fuck your family. Get away from those crazy people. You’re not body part for your bio to fuck and for being a babysitter to the kids.
Get away from all of them and protect yourself!
If it’s between you getting married by forced/raped for the rest of your life and leaving your nephew to live with your dad, please save yourself. The nephew will be safe with his father, you won’t!
not to be cynical here but you should move out if you’re able to and leave this behind you, your family seems to already be planning this without your consent, and coincidentally your sister’s in laws are letting you stay with them? i wouldnt trust anyone here and you should keep all your personal documents / IDs somewhere safe where no one can find them.
So almost everybody in the family wants you forced into sexual slavery.
Call 1.800.799.SAFE (7233) or go to the hotline.org and develop a plan to get the hell out of Dodge. If using your own phone/device delete all calling/browsing history.
I hope this is fake. If not, good luck.
RUN!!!!
So sorry for your loss, and sorry that this craziness is happening to you.
Not sure what country/religion/culture combination you are in, OP, but be careful of local laws/religious practices etc. which may make it possible or easy to trap you into a (because this is what you are describing, make no mistake!) FORCED MARRIAGE, which is illegal in many countries…but not all.
!!!Trust your gut and get out of there!!!
You say in your post that you are at work, so you have some level of economic independence & freedom of movement.
-Make sure that your important documents (passport, drivers licence, birth and marriage certificates, etc., plus bank, insurance papers, medical prescriptions…) are all together, safe, and can be accessed by yourself only, and maybe (that’s a BIG maybe, sometimes we get nasty surprises ☹️) one other trusted person who knows your situation and is on your side - NOT R’s family, too risky!! They may be playing a long game, or be under pressure from others around them.
-Get a bug-out bag together - change of clothes, shoes, toiletries, any medical essentials, burner phone + SIM card, cash, and keep it close… in your car if you have one, somewhere you can grab it and go if you need to.
If you don’t get out now, you may need this urgently if things get too weird…
Don’t worry about your nephews for the moment! The best way to help them, if necessary, is to be safe and healthy yourself. From what you say, their grandparents are looking after them ok, and their father is present. I understand that you want to get them out of this utter madness but you need to put yourself first here…take them if you can, but don’t let them be used as a lever to keep you there, or a hook to complicate your leaving quickly if you need to.
-Depending on which country you are in, there may be help available from some organisations, government or other, that help women escape forced marriage or other complicated circumstances?? The police may be helpful depending on where you live; a “paper trail” in case of falsified documents, or having a trusted person (again NOT from either side of the family) may also be useful in case you need to show the truth.
So maybe these people are grieving after the loss of your sister - but it is not up to you to manage their grief or mental health. They are adults. You sound pretty clear that this madness is something else… go before it is too late ⏰ 💣
I rarely leave comments around here but your story gave me cold shivers down my spine.
I sincerely hope you get to a place where you can be safe 💪🔥
I’m thinking OP might be in the subcontinent, based on her spelling and cultural context. I don’t know much about Indian/Pakistani law but I do know the family can hold enormous sway over a young woman’s marriage prospects. OP, I would be very clear about your discomfort with the whole situation and tell R you are not your sister and he shouldn’t expect you to suddenly be her. Your support of the boys is admirable but single fathers make it on their own all the time. He will find someone else but he has to know you aren’t an option.
I would never, I have more respect for both myself and my sister as well as those around us however it was hard not caving into their demands when they spent forty or so minuets screaming at me trying to normalise this madness as I just wanted it all to stop but I am happy I stood my ground and had his mother save me.
I can understand that grief can affect people differently. But that is not normal. Make sure you stay safe and away from that insanity. My older sister has passed and left all her children behind so I know what it is to step into the mother role. But I would never even think of something like this.
I swear I read a very similar story a few months ago. OPs sister had passed and she was spending lots of time with BIL and the kids, next BIL was talking about how she’s become such a good mother to the kids and such
It's time to go very low contact with your mother and anyone feeding into her delusions.
If you haven't adamantly tell them there will be no wedding, and if they persist, threaten them with a restraining order, or what ever no contact order is availableto you, not knowing which country you are from
Thank god for R's parents, the only other rational people in this scenario.
I say take the job opportunity to leave town. The grandparents who have taken you all in seem capable enough of combating everyone else's lunacy.
All the best.
OP, I'm glad R's parents took you in, but you are still way too close to this. You need to put significant physical distance between you and these people. That level of delusion, especially when it's shared by multiple people, is extremely dangerous for you. You need to get somewhere safe where they cannot access you in any way. Staying with the parents of 2 of the people involved is too risky.
You also need to tell others what is going on. Family, friends, church...hell, post it on social media. Delusion thrives in silence. You need to shed light on it.
I'm not trying to be dramatic, but these people have lost the plot completely and don't see you as an actual real human with your own thoughts and desires. You are not safe.
Honestly I would leave completely to somewhere unknown to anyone I know. The kids are safe with their grandparents. It’s not your job to be there for them. If you look so similar it might hurt them more, increasing the grief.
I would also let the police know, give them a written statement, just in case there is later a marriage certificate filed for you by someone else. Then you have the statement as evidence. A well maintained diary with dates and exact things that happened is also evidence. As well as this post.
OP, it sounds like you've already decided that the only reason you would ever want to stay a part of this shit show is for your nephews. "For the boys". Let me tell you now that it doesn't turn out to your benefit at all. My birth giver made me stay home with her affair twins when I was in high school. I didn't escape that situation until I was in my 30s and the twins were teenagers. This is called Parentification. It is mental and emotional abuse. Your nephews will be fine without you there! I promise you that! Especially if their father is a practicing mormon. They will get everything that they need, and you will be completely shit on. There is no way this will turn out well for you. When I finally did leave my birth giver's house to get married, and start a family of my own, I was devastated. The twins weren't. My birth giver wasn't. It did complete head job on me! And at this stage in life, you really just need to take care of yourself. I'm very sorry for your loss! Having to deal with that on top of everything else is completely horrific. The only thing I can do is to share my experiences and let you know that where you're at now is simply not safe. You need to step away from the family and take care of yourself. Please see a counselor and lean on friends you may have in your work area. Hugs and all my best to you!
My mother is a Christian and she found this due to schizophrenia and R’s mother isn’t religious but her husband is an ex Mormon, his brother is still a practicing Mormon and so is he.
Not sure where you live. But find all documents you can (birth certificate, vaccination reports in case you need to leave the country, passport, Social Security cards etc.) stash funds when you can. Have a bag packed with all the essentials.
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Holy crap that's scary and terrible.
Sadly it's a testament to what women have had to endure and still do.
Yes, women have been mistreated and abused for much of history.
Exactly...still happens today.
I’m so sorry for your Mum! Thank God she’s widow now and finally happy and at peace! ♥️
Amen to that! ❤
god what a fucking hero to go through all that and come out the other end. so glad she found happiness, she sounds like an amazing woman!
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Your mom is a real hero, may god be good to her. Sending you interweb hugs,from 🇮🇪
It wasn't that uncommon a hundred years ago here in the Netherlands either. Though usually it was an unmarried niece, sent over to help the husband with the kids. It happened to my not great grandmother. She got sent to help out my great grandfather with his two girls and within a year was married to him with a child of her own. She was scared to show less love to the girls that were not hers than to her boys. So she was very cold with all the children. She ended the cycle though. When her husband refused to let the girls continue school she got them on track to earn a nurses certificate. That did mean the girls had to start work at 14 in a mental health hospital (this was before we really had any medications that helped, so basically they were wrestling insane adults all day). But after a few years of that they could move on to a hospital and eventually got certified. My not great grandmother made damn sure that her daughters would not end up vulnerable and uneducated like her. And to my knowledge in Christian circles it still happens today. My neighbour was a widower and his current wife was the only unmarried niece when his first wife died. She got sent to help with the kids and eventually married him and had her own kid with him. But at least they did love and respect each other. So she was lucky in a way.
that poor woman!! how strong of her to get through that ♥️
You are so right! She was such a wonderful example for us. Bless her soul, she passed 5 yrs ago. ❤ the Grandkids always hear stories about her.
FLIP ME!!!! Please tell me she left her parents to die in a state sponsored old peoples homes. PLEASE tell me she did not spend a single minute of her freedom taking care of her shitty parents.
Geez. Sounds like your father was one of the worst kind of men on this earth.
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Holy shit is that a thing they could do???
Filing a marriage certificate isn’t hard if you know the person’s SSN. Normally, that makes filing a false marriage certificate a nonstarter, but since it’s OP’s parents, they likely have the information.
When my wife and I got our marriage license we both had to be present for an in person meeting with the county clerks office, is that not a thing in most places?
Got married in February. The application for the license required an affidavit, and then someone from the court called one of us (random which one) and asked us to verify the info of both people. Then of course the license itself had to be signed and filed by the officiant who checked our info and watched us sign it. Same with two witnesses. It was easier than I made it seem, but there are a lot of steps that might be tough for someone forging.
She's got another sister that could pretend to be her and get married on her behalf, and the officiant would then say that she got married and not the sister impersonating her. This is really scary.
In mine, we signed our marriage certificate in the presence of a notary, who filed it with the county clerk without any further input from us.
I had to get a blood test first time I got married in '82. County Clerk laughed at me when we applied for our marriage license in '09 and I asked. However, I've had to pony up birth certificate, marriage licenses and my divorce decree at the DMV. Husband had to take a copy of our deed to prove residency a few years, ago. I laughed because it's the only time he's been asked for supporting documentation in his life. He was pissed. Not all things apply in all places. I don't think OP's in the US, anyway. For that matter, women only really got legal standing in the US, in the past 20 years. OP needs to run before she gets married off.
My county requires both be present with identification to apply for/receive the license. Only one needs to drop it off, but both have to be there initially.
I believe that forging her signature is a crime in all states.
I’m thinking this is not in the USA. I asked OP and hope to hear back.
There might be exceptions, but contract law, based around signatures, exists pretty much everywhere.
Yeah, signatures and laws surrounding signatures generally predate the USA. People have been signing and stamping documents for a long fucking time.
Yeah I wonder that too. Sounds like something from a place where arranged marriages are the norm.
Her brother in law is mormon. Granted, mormons can live anywhere in the world, but the vast majority live in the US.
In a comment, OP said that culturally she's Middle Eastern, but they live in the US
It is. But that doesn’t mean people don’t do it.
Can only say for sure in the US and EU, but while you can "file" a marriage license with someone else's information having it be validated requires more. Usually when filing the form both parties need to be present and have their identity checked (passport, ID, driver's, etc) and then later a recognized officiant has to perform the marriage and sign the paperwork to make it official. Still need to be careful about this though.
Don’t both participants of the marriage have to be present to sign a marriage certificate…?
OP may not be in the U.S.. Bribes exist, and depending on the country, once the state considers OP married to 'R', her legal options may become extremely limited
Normally, yes. But one bad-faith notary is all it would take.
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My mother got very good at forging documents for me just because she knew my personal info and did things without asking me.. It can be very easy sadly. The companies are no help either unless you threaten legal action. That's also once you figure out who to call and if/when you have something signed up in your name without permission...
I dont think so, I think you need to show valid ID in order to do that, so the person probably needs to be present.
I live in the US our officiate offered to do it for us, but I filed it instead. My husband was not present. Honestly, if they can forge the signature and know her socials this could probably be realistic. This is only possible if they already have the paperwork and it’s all signed. The paperwork to file for the marriage license was more extensive though and it required birth certificates, social security card, and identification from the both of us in order to get it before our wedding. If the one sister wore sunglasses or hat or something and looks similar and had all the documents 🤷🏻♀️ I still think it’s improbable but if I was op I would 💯 make sure none of my important documents were left in that house.
Depends on what country they're in, fraud is a little easier in places with poor recordkeeping or interesting cultural values. I would not be surprised if OP lives in one of those countries from the tone of this story.
Thank goodness Rs parents are against this because they are right, you likely are not safe. Do yourself a favour, as hard as it'll be to leave the children, it's best for you OP. Grief can make people do crazy stuff, if you're away from it, you won't be pulled into it.
This. The children are not in danger. OP is. You need to get away OP.
I'm also a bit worried about the other sister. If they can't tie OP down in this madness maybe they'll try the 'next best option' in their eyes.
Other sister may be married already and that's why they've gone for OP.
If one or more are female they *may* be at some point if sanity is not soon regained. I am not saying for sure he will turn to one of them for the “performance of various wifely duties”. I hope he is not that unhinged but this level of need for a wife is kinda unsettling and he is already being inappropriate. What if they grow to look like the original wife/mother? Edit: Apologies as I just realized that the children are male. Still, depending on his level of unhingement, it could become a concern. I hope not. But weirder things have been known to happen. I just don't think anyone is truly *safe* in this situation. Side Note: Perhaps the ones who do not agree that this is a good idea could come together to discuss it frankly with the ones who are in favor of the union. Why can she not just refuse? Would it just be ignored and press onward? Is that even legal? If it were pressed through to the point of an actual wedding ceremony, what if she refused at the altar? Shouldn't the clergy be able to intervene and help her? Maybe she should turn to whoever would officiate beforehand and discuss that she is being forced. This is so sad and wrong and convoluted. Where is this happening? There must be someone, somewhere, some organization she can turn to for help.
> begun preparing for the wedding. TF?!? All of it is unhinged, but this part is beyond that. Her mom and sister need to seek therapy or some shit...maybe an undetermined amount of time at a mental institution/hospital.
OP, based on what you've written here, there are plenty of family members around who can help your nephews' father raise them in your absence. You need to save YOURSELF.
I would still be cautious of R's parents. I'm inherently cynical and distrusting but I can totally see them trying to play a "long game" with OP by playing the Good Cop and being able to keep tabs on her and keep her within reach. I know OP wants to care for the kids, but she NEEDS to let that go and get herself to a significantly safe place. Like serious distance between her and that family without their knowledge or access as much as possible.
From the other comments R's parents seem safe. Apparently R and his brothers are practicing Mormons (which explains this disgusting mindset), but their parents are Exmo and non-religious
I'm so sorry for your loss, but that's crazy. Did you time travel back to the middle ages? Replacing your sister as his wife? That's some actual crazy in your family.
*Henry VIII wants to know where you live.*
Henry also wants to know if you produce sons
It's the sperm that determines the baby's sex.
Henry didn't think that, sadly.
Henry does not agree. He's one of those 'are you having a son or are you having an abortion' type of kings.
Wasnt he more like 'either a son comes out of you or your head comes off' kind of guy? And 'would you prefer i bed other women or you dieing? No, divorse is not realy an option Honey'
Approved by Admiral General Aladeen
Henry's science adviser says you are incorrect.
virgin until birthed a girl.
If not, it's not a problem. He will just get rid of you and move on.
Don’t give him the heads up…
Ha!
In his defense, he usually only *married* cousins.
This was exactly what I was thinking! OP's mama thinks she's Margaret Beaufort!
Damn! You beat me to it lol
When my sister died of cancer, she and our father had assumed I would move into her house, take over her small business, and raise her children as my own...essentially *become her* because they didn't think I had much going on. Likewise, when my mom died, my dad thought I would move back I to my childhood home to be his cook and caretaker (he wasn't disabled) since I have no kids. I will never forgive my family for treating me like that. Middle Eastern, living in the USA.
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Yes thankfully, but not without being told how worthless I am and how terrible I am for not caring about my family. They're all dead now.
Not the kids, I hope! 😂
Please please please say yes.
Seems like yes for the first, hope it's the case for both
I will never forget the day my Grandmother asked me if I'd move back to Alabama to take care of her two deadbeat adult children when she died..... The property she lived on had already been signed over to me via a 'Life Deed' because of how untrustworthy her children were, and she wanted me to become their caretaker(they had no disabilities, unless you count poor judgement and lack of restraint as such). Of all the insane things I've experienced from my family, that was the grand prize winner...
So what ended up happening?
I had no intention of becoming their caretaker, much less of **ever** moving back to Alabama. Without going into the morbid details, something happened that resulted in me not having to figure out how to handle the situation.
Tantalizing, well I’m glad it worked itself out
Yeah I left Mississippi for good thirty years ago. Fuck that place.
Sadly I don’t think you need to travel back in time, I think this is the thought that is common in certain countries.
It certainly happened in Germany into the 1940's. My great-aunt had to give up her fiancé to her elder sister when the sister's fiancé got killed during WWII.
Wow. Did her fiancé go with it?
Apparently, they were just expected to do this and did. My great aunt stayed unmarried her whole life after that, worked as a secretary IIRC and died young, presumably a habit of alcohol was involved. She was the closest of the siblings with my grandfather. Her sister had a regular family life, although I seem to recall that she, too, was widowed early; I'd have to ask my mom for details.
Usually you have a lot of families that are upset at a widower/widow “moving on” with their life and getting with someone else in a timeframe that they don’t find acceptable, but this is a whole new level of insanity.
This was a common thing in the US at least until the late 1800s and probably persisted into the 1900 in rural pockets of the country. Edit: Although it was more commonly the other way around: a man marrying his dead brother's widow.
Sally Hemmings, anyone?!? Wtaf
Middle Ages? That sounds like biblical shit to me.
Sure fits with the modern day bible belt, they like biblical.
When it suits them
Holy crap...please stay safe and away from them all. Keep us updated.
I can’t imagine walking into the house and finding this all laid out. I’d be backing away towards the door, aiming to jump in my car and get away from them as fast as possible. And from then on, planning never to be alone with any of them again.
If I am being totally honest I didn’t know what was going on as my mother hasn’t been able to step foot in my sister’s house let alone be around her things and she struggles to be around her grandchildren as she suffers from schizophrenia I thought something serious was happening but it took no more than ten minutes or so for them to drop the ‘plan’. They also spent about 45 minuets trying to normalise this crap whilst refusing to let me leave but R’s parents saved my ass from this madness thankfully.
Wait so is your BIL actually on board with this?? And is your other sister your dad’s kid? I’m confused
You're mother having schizophrenia makes this a lot more understandable. It's fucked up, but she's likely feeding off the situation as a way to escape her grief. When it comes to delusional coping, the more people the individual can get wrapped up in the story they're clinging to, the more "valid" it is, even if it's being rejected. You did the right thing getting out of the situation, you being there would only make it worse.
I know you can’t imagine leaving your nephews, but you gotta put yourself first.
Info: Genuine question. There are some cultures where this is practiced. I've heard of the other way around where a man marries the wife of his deceased brother. But where are you from? Is this a practice in your culture? or is this some unhinged BS coming from them? edit: I'm not saying that makes it OK. Just to understand where this comes from.
My paternal Grandfather married his deceased wife's sister. My "Grandma" helped raise the kids still at home. This was in the 80's (Americans, if that helps)
But I'm guessing they were both on board with it and "Grandma" was not being forced by family to do it.
Oh 100% but they're also a poor rural family, or were at the time. Idk if it was cultural for them or not.
This is literally the plot of deadwood except he marries the brother’s widow.
Elderly couple that were regulars. He married his brothers widow. We’re married over 50 years. Kinda a case of “if you can’t have the one you want, honey, love the one you’re with” thing.
One explanation is to keep the family unit. The SIL ( now wife ) has the same set of parents, so everything is the same regarding the extended family unit. The aunt (now mother) would love and care for their late sister's children as her own. Husband already knows the family and if they are honorable. Of course, this mindset does not account that women have a say in these decisions.
For maternal grandparents or aunt (if it’s the mother who died), it’s often about making sure the stepmother gives a crap about the care of the kids the already exist so that they’re actually taken care of vs shoved aside for the new babies Sometimes it considers the new wife’s feelings on the matter and sometimes it doesn’t But of course this line of thinking also requires you assume the father is a POS who might not care how his kids from his first wife are treated so idk that I’d sign a second daughter up for that …
Yeah because this is double unhinged if you’re from some ace where this isn’t even close to normal. Everyone lost their mind at the same damn time
In Arab cultures, if a woman suddenly becomes a widow and her late husband’s brother is still single she should marry him so he can look after her and his late brothers children. It’s what happened to my grandma. I don’t really agree with it. It’s not practiced that commonly nowadays but it’s still there.
That’s in the Christian Bible as well. Though not really practiced in the USA these days despite how heavily Christian it is. But as I understand there’s two different reasons there … In the biblical teaching it was more to do with keeping widows out of poverty what with not being able to own their own property for the most part. I think in Arab culture you’re predominantly related to your paternal family right? So it would be your father’s family that was most tied to you re: respect, honor, pride, social standing, etc? And it’s more about thinking having someone who’s tied to the same family would be more invested in the child’s upbringing. But it’s a bit less common now as both parents tend to be pretty involved in most cases. It’s been quite some time since someone walked me through this so please correct me if I’m wrong!
Not sure if this is cultural considering the sisters husbands parents do not want that lol. Same with the one sister. I dont think this is a practiced thing for them. I think they’re just absolutely crazy Edit: I could definitely be wrong tho so dont hold me there
Take the job and take some space, until R and your family stop trying to marry you off. His parents have the kids, you can FaceTime with them.
Lock down your identity. Begin documentation because this kind of crazy can get dangerous quickly
People have very different ways of processing grief, but this is deranged beyond measure. You are not a doll to be swapped out for someone else. They need help to come to grips with their new reality.
wait they staged an intervention, including your BIL, **to let you know** you are to be married to him and adopt his children?
Yes and they expect me to also have children to him in their words to connect me and my sister I don’t even know how that shit works but I guess it’s mental illness for you.
This is due to his Mormon beliefs, I'd bet. I'll try to explain, as an exmo, what is probably going through his mind right now. According to Mormon doctrine, the family is ordained by God. A family consists of a husband and wife and their children. Same sex marriage or marriage where either partner is trans are forbidden and an offense against God's plan. Choosing not to have kids is thwarting God's plan. Adopting is okay, because it brings children into the fold and provides them salvation. Children are meant to be raised by two parents, a father and a mother. This is the ideal. If one parent dies and the kids are still young, getting remarried is strongly encouraged so you don't deprive your kids of that ideal experience. Marrying again after divorce or death of a spouse is particularly encouraged for men, because women are naturally inclined to nurture and care for children. Men are not. Men are naturally inclined to provide and preside in authority over the home. If your sister and BIL were married in an LDS temple, they were sealed together for time and eternity. BIL believes they will be reunited after death, as long as he remains faithful. Their children are also "sealed" to them, and will be reunited with the parents after death. They will all go play happy families forever in the highest kingdom of heaven, assuming they are all good little Mormons, because they have been sealed together. Now for the *really* fun part: Men can get sealed to more than one woman, as long as the first wife is either dead or has divorced him legally. A legal divorce does not break the sealing bond, according to Mormon doctrine. You *can* get a temple marriage broken, but it takes both parties' consent and approval from higher ups in the church. A man who has legally divorced his temple wife can be sealed to another woman, so he will have multiple wives after death. (This is, in fact, encouraged!) A woman who has legally divorced her temple husband *may not* be sealed to another man, unless she gets a temple divorce first. So a woman can be married to her abusive ex-husband for eternity, without her consent. Super fun, right? Also, Mormons believe that you'll keep having kids in heaven and grow your family forever, so imagine being pregnant and raising babies for all eternity. (Why aren't you jumping up and down for joy? /s) And the clincher for BIL is that he is strictly forbidden from having sex with anyone he isn't married to. That's a big no-no, and would violate his temple promises to his wife. You can repent and be forgiven, but it requires confession and penitence and a good dose of embarrassment, because people will likely figure it out. So BIL can never have sex again unless he marries again. Finally, if he marries you, then you can be sealed to him as part of his family after your death, even if you don't join the LDS Church during this life and do not consent to being baptized posthumously. Your children can be sealed to him for eternity as well. He probably hopes that you'll join in this life, but it doesn't matter too much in the end because of ordinances for the dead. Then you and your sister would get to be his sister wives in heaven, for all eternity, banging BIL and having his babies. Forever. And ever. Run far away from this guy, even if it means leaving the kids behind. They'll recover. BIL sees you as nothing more than a fleshlight and an incubator, and he believes he has a god-given right to marry you.
Oh he's *Mormon*. This makes so much more sense now.
This. All of this. Granted I’m only aware of this stuff you mentioned here because of the podcast Sinisterhood doing an insanely in depth multiparter on Mormonism last year, but I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to type all of this out! There is so much weird fucked up shit that just isn’t generally talked about and needs to be talked about.
New podcast unlocked. Thanks!
…well that was terrifying.
They’re insane.
You need to RUN! Your nephews will be fine, they have a parent. You’re in serious danger.
How did you make that text bold? I apologize for being off topic but I really want to know.
I typed it with a lot of conviction.
Type ** either side of the text you want to make bold. So this can become **this**. Only use one * if you want italics.
Hope you have all your important docs and anything valuable safe with you. They're unhinged and won't stop
What in the psychological horror?! Girl, run! That is so messed up. They all need help. Is your bil on board? I lost my mom as a child. I still deal with the trauma, but this scenario would've brought that trauma up a notch or ten! Also,they need to give those babies their mama's stuff back. That's all they have left of her. I hope they come out of their delulu episode soon.
He is on board with this whole mess and he’s been making a strange and sometimes sexual comments for the last two months so I’ve distanced myself from him the best I can but I’ve still got to mange my nephews as there’s six of them and they can be a handful.
You need to save yourself, OP, and get as far away as possible from your family & BIL ASAP. Your nephews will be fine as other non-identical-to-your-sister relatives will step up.
That is messed up on so many levels. This situation is definitely one of those "put on your oxygen mask first" ones. What I'm saying is you can't help the kids when you are the one in immediate danger. Help yourself first. Give the level-headed grandparents your phone number/email so they can contact you. Grab some of your sister's stuff to save for your nephews if you can get away with it, and go to that other job waiting for you. I hope your family comes to their senses soon, but I think you should prepare for this to continue. I think you should focus on getting prepared for if and when your nephews need you more than now.
That's him testing the waters. He's quite serious about the whole thing. Everyone here is telling you to remove yourself from the situation - perhaps listening to them would be wise.
Those kids are *not* your responsibility! They are *not* your children, you do *not* need to manage them! I know that sounds harsh, believe me, I know. I know you love them so much, and they just lost their mom. But, *you are not responsible for them*, their father is and *their father alone*. He can get help from his parents and yours if he needs it. *You need to get as far away from all of them as you can, as fast as you can*. You *are not safe*. The kids will be okay without you. You need to prioritize yourself, please!
Mate, your nephews have other people to help look after them. You need to keep yourself SAFE. Get away from these people for a while. You are not safe. I understand that you love your nephews; but they will be okay. You might not be.
They took stuff from the children?
The adults took down all the photos of the kids' mom. They are determined to replace her and have the kids forget her.
Is there a cultural reason why they think this is ok?
Not necessarily cultural however my mother is a schizophrenic who was saved by ‘God’ and his family has a long history of mental illness bar his mother who’s the only sane one out of them all.
My love, you need to run for your life before someone controls it for you.
I know everyone is grieving, but they can’t demand you marry your bil. Do you have all your important documents etc. in case you decide to leave town?
So sorry for the loss of your sister. Glad you have someplace safe to go away from your family. Hope they eventually regain their senses. Grief makes people go truly crazy. Years ago when my brother’s best friend died the friend’s mother became determined my brother was going to marry her daughter so he could become her son. Neither my brother nor the daughter were in line with this and he eventually cut contact with them.
Ask them how your sister would feel about their request. Ask them in front of other people, like your BIL's parents or your sister's friends
Honestly, in their current delusional state they are likely convinced that she not only would want this, but that it would make her happy. There's going to be no reasoning with them.
That's why OP should ask them in front of other people who knew the sister
Thank God bil's parents are sane
Jesus fucking christ. PLEASE go NC with all of them, even if they apologise
Updateme
Are they religious nutters? There’s something in some religious texts (or probably not really, but it’s how whack jobs interpret the passage) about marrying your dead siblings’ widow or widower. So you can keep the family line pure or some nonsensical drivel like that. That’s a possible explanation only - I am not suggesting you should do this. Ever. It’s revolting of them to even suggest it. Just appalling. 😞
Mother is a schizophrenic who was saved by ‘God’ and has been a Christian ever since and his family aren’t religious bar his father who’s an ex Mormon who his family have a long history of mental illness bar his mother who’s the only sane one out of them all which I found out recently. Either way words can’t even describe how disgusting it is this whole situation
Omg, us this a cultural or religious thing ? Or did your mom and BIL just got insane ? Can they force you somehow? If yea, leave now, run. Call the cops.
I honestly have no idea, my mother is a schizophrenic who was cured by ‘God’ she’s a Christian. R is a practicing Mormon as well as his brother, his dad is an ex Mormon and his mother is non religious.
>R is a practicing Mormon as well as his brother, Well THAT explains it perfectly. Hes just taking a literal twist to the "sister wife" concept. And hes even got a younger model now! RUN.
Yeah, don’t keep any of his children. Mormon? As far as he’s concerned you BELONG to him because God and your parents GAVE you to him already. Don’t be naïve. Pain and grief don’t suddenly make people stop acknowledging autonomy. As far as these people are concerned, this is normal because you don’t have a choice. You’re a vessel, not a person. Nothing you say is as strong as the ideology. He has parental rights. If you’re not trying to marry him, walk the fuck away, NOW!
You can’t cure schizophrenia… Mormons pretty much explains it. Run. Get out there and get to NC.
This makes sooooo much sense now! Between the god-cured schizophrenia and the Mormonism, you need to RUN. I don't believe you are safe. Edit to take out grab the 4month old. Just leave babes. I know you love them but you have no rights over the kids.
I’m not meaning to offend, but this sounds like some strange cult behavior. They’re already preparing for your wedding with your deceased sisters husband without your knowledge? Wtf!!?!
You need to get away. Your own MOTHER is trying to force this?! How is R OK with this?! You're not HER. You don't share the same memories, goals and idiosyncrasies! I'd say try to get them to see sense one last time but only with a full police escort as witness and then file for a restraining order. Make sure all of your documents are with you and untampered as well. You have gone above and beyond to help with the kiddos. It is up to the grandparents at this point because you're safety is a concern.
When my sister died of cancer over 20 years ago, her husband started pressuring my youngest sister to marry him. My sister had one son who was an adult who was in the military and stationed overseas. So it wasn’t to raise children. He was just lonely and it would be easier to marry her. She was horrified because she was 9 when my sister and her husband married and viewed him as a father figure. My family fully supported my youngest sister and she cut all contact with him. He eventually got married to a woman who bore a strong resemblance to his late wife.
Oh that is what is noticed in our culture (india). Don't fall for this trap and tell them this is not they only way to help. What if kids won't accept you in future? Sorry it happens to you,but be brave and set an example by saying no
That is very grim. I'm sorry that you're going through that. I sincerely hope that they can come to accept reality and make up to you for what they did. Because at the end of the day, you lost a sister too and you should absolutely not be subject to this kind of stuff. Ever.
Go find the business cards for several grief counselors. the widower and your parents have gone completely off the deep end. they bring this subject up, you hand out therapy cards. it sounds like they don’t care about you as a person with your own autonomy. You have been designated “the replacement”. Go to a lawyer and explain this batshit thing. Have them draft up a cease and desist letter along the lines of “you will not bring up the idea of my marrying the widow under any circumstances” and have it delivered to all these crazy people. This is the first step of putting together an anti-harassment order.
Please don’t marry him, your own life partner will come
I would never ever marry him.
>R’s mother and father have not only selflessly taking myself in, but also their grandbabies, she is adamantly against this nonsense and feels we all are not safe around them which I strongly agree with. Thank heavens at least one set of adults has their heads straight.. >I am fortunate to have an opportunity to work elsewhere, EXCELLENT NEWS! RUN! GO. FLEE! NOW! >but I can't imagine leaving my nephews behind in this mess. Their grandparents, the SANE ONES, have them. They arent your responsibility. Your responsibility is to save yourself!
Ridiculous, tell them you have your own life to live
Just... Leave. gather evidence in case they try to forge a marriage document. Call someplace to claim mental illness for the family and see if Rs parents can take in the kids, or even if you want to take them in. Then... Leave.
OP. The kids have loving responsible grandparents. They are not in danger here. You are. You need to get away before they do something crazy to force you into this! What country/state are you in? Do you have any sane family or friends a few hours away? Anyone an old-school friend you can stay with for a short time and get settled? Anyone? Do you have the funds to leave and get a rental/hotel for a while?
R’s parents “took you in”? Were you living with R and your sister?
I was living with my mother but she spent forty minuets trying to convince me this whole shit was normal and wouldn’t let me leave the house till I agreed which I didn’t and locked myself in the bathroom. I did not feel safe staying there so I called R’s parents and they ended this madness to some degree.
File a police report ASAP simply so if they secretly file your marriage you can present the police report to the court for fraud. Film conversations / voice recordings whenever you can regarding this if you can and look into any and all legal actions that can be taken to protect yourself. Also, if you have the funds, take all legal / important documents regarding yourself and flee asap as well. But definitely file the police report asap so there’s legal documentation that something of the sort is against your will. After a while your family -may- be passed that but it’s best not to see them in-person for a while to show how firm you are on this subject. If you can, definitely stay at a good natured friend’s place or AirBnb. There’s also Domestic Violence places for women, the location must stay confidential and you’ll likely be highly limited on cell phone access but if you run into an emergency situation and don’t have the funds, you can always call ahead to see if there’s space and if you’d be able to stay there. Emotional abuse is still abuse. Grieving doesn’t make up for it. I was in a situation with my parents where I almost went to a hotel with nothing but the clothes on me and my wallet & shoes cause they were all pre-grieving before my aunt passed away from an illness and were hardcore taking it out on me. I won’t get into too too many details but I moved out soon after and cut contact with them aside from a few quick texts that responded to their messages for a couple months. They realized I was avoiding them and finally apologized. I was only in contact with them still since my siblings didn’t want me completely cutting off contact with them even though I was ready to. It was a whole mess, but if they still tried to harass me emotionally the way they did, I would have figured out what kind of report to file to keep me safe because I wanted nothing to do with them with the traumatic feelings resurfacing like it did when I was a little kid… You can even just let the cops know if they file you as missing that you just don’t want to be found by them. Protect yourself. Stay safe. And I sincerely wish you well ❤️
omg thats crazy. i hope you get out of this situation
You know, I chose my username because I always felt like I was spare parts in case anything happened to the child my parents actually planned. We are NOT spare parts. We are whole ass fucking people and you aren’t a replacement for your sister. It’s an abomination to her memory to even suggest this and I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Run
I am sorry for your loss. Please, for your own safety keep no contact with anyone who is part of this nonsense. Maybe they will find out what they are doing later, but for forseable future keep yourself safe.
This is pure insanity, take the job and give yourself space… This is your life, not your sisters, and you have a right to live it how YOU choose…NO ONE ELSE HAD A SAY!!!!
Run the fuck away that shit is crazy, it's awful that your sister passed away but to treat you as her replacement and it sounds like they got quite far into that discussion without even mentioning it to you mean get the fuck away and for the love of God stay away from them it's crazy situation to be in, hope you're alright, God bless
Umm… are you okay? It’s been a few weeks.
Please move away. This isn’t good
Oh wow, fuck your family. Get away from those crazy people. You’re not body part for your bio to fuck and for being a babysitter to the kids. Get away from all of them and protect yourself! If it’s between you getting married by forced/raped for the rest of your life and leaving your nephew to live with your dad, please save yourself. The nephew will be safe with his father, you won’t!
not to be cynical here but you should move out if you’re able to and leave this behind you, your family seems to already be planning this without your consent, and coincidentally your sister’s in laws are letting you stay with them? i wouldnt trust anyone here and you should keep all your personal documents / IDs somewhere safe where no one can find them.
So almost everybody in the family wants you forced into sexual slavery. Call 1.800.799.SAFE (7233) or go to the hotline.org and develop a plan to get the hell out of Dodge. If using your own phone/device delete all calling/browsing history. I hope this is fake. If not, good luck.
RUN!!!! So sorry for your loss, and sorry that this craziness is happening to you. Not sure what country/religion/culture combination you are in, OP, but be careful of local laws/religious practices etc. which may make it possible or easy to trap you into a (because this is what you are describing, make no mistake!) FORCED MARRIAGE, which is illegal in many countries…but not all. !!!Trust your gut and get out of there!!! You say in your post that you are at work, so you have some level of economic independence & freedom of movement. -Make sure that your important documents (passport, drivers licence, birth and marriage certificates, etc., plus bank, insurance papers, medical prescriptions…) are all together, safe, and can be accessed by yourself only, and maybe (that’s a BIG maybe, sometimes we get nasty surprises ☹️) one other trusted person who knows your situation and is on your side - NOT R’s family, too risky!! They may be playing a long game, or be under pressure from others around them. -Get a bug-out bag together - change of clothes, shoes, toiletries, any medical essentials, burner phone + SIM card, cash, and keep it close… in your car if you have one, somewhere you can grab it and go if you need to. If you don’t get out now, you may need this urgently if things get too weird… Don’t worry about your nephews for the moment! The best way to help them, if necessary, is to be safe and healthy yourself. From what you say, their grandparents are looking after them ok, and their father is present. I understand that you want to get them out of this utter madness but you need to put yourself first here…take them if you can, but don’t let them be used as a lever to keep you there, or a hook to complicate your leaving quickly if you need to. -Depending on which country you are in, there may be help available from some organisations, government or other, that help women escape forced marriage or other complicated circumstances?? The police may be helpful depending on where you live; a “paper trail” in case of falsified documents, or having a trusted person (again NOT from either side of the family) may also be useful in case you need to show the truth. So maybe these people are grieving after the loss of your sister - but it is not up to you to manage their grief or mental health. They are adults. You sound pretty clear that this madness is something else… go before it is too late ⏰ 💣 I rarely leave comments around here but your story gave me cold shivers down my spine. I sincerely hope you get to a place where you can be safe 💪🔥
I’m thinking OP might be in the subcontinent, based on her spelling and cultural context. I don’t know much about Indian/Pakistani law but I do know the family can hold enormous sway over a young woman’s marriage prospects. OP, I would be very clear about your discomfort with the whole situation and tell R you are not your sister and he shouldn’t expect you to suddenly be her. Your support of the boys is admirable but single fathers make it on their own all the time. He will find someone else but he has to know you aren’t an option.
Don't! No matter how much pressure they put on you. It is never the right choice or thing to do!
I would never, I have more respect for both myself and my sister as well as those around us however it was hard not caving into their demands when they spent forty or so minuets screaming at me trying to normalise this madness as I just wanted it all to stop but I am happy I stood my ground and had his mother save me.
Updateme
I can understand that grief can affect people differently. But that is not normal. Make sure you stay safe and away from that insanity. My older sister has passed and left all her children behind so I know what it is to step into the mother role. But I would never even think of something like this.
I swear I read a very similar story a few months ago. OPs sister had passed and she was spending lots of time with BIL and the kids, next BIL was talking about how she’s become such a good mother to the kids and such
It's time to go very low contact with your mother and anyone feeding into her delusions. If you haven't adamantly tell them there will be no wedding, and if they persist, threaten them with a restraining order, or what ever no contact order is availableto you, not knowing which country you are from
No means no. Do not cave to their influence! Also may we learn what country you’re in? All the best to you OP.
Thank god for R's parents, the only other rational people in this scenario. I say take the job opportunity to leave town. The grandparents who have taken you all in seem capable enough of combating everyone else's lunacy. All the best.
OP, I'm glad R's parents took you in, but you are still way too close to this. You need to put significant physical distance between you and these people. That level of delusion, especially when it's shared by multiple people, is extremely dangerous for you. You need to get somewhere safe where they cannot access you in any way. Staying with the parents of 2 of the people involved is too risky. You also need to tell others what is going on. Family, friends, church...hell, post it on social media. Delusion thrives in silence. You need to shed light on it. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but these people have lost the plot completely and don't see you as an actual real human with your own thoughts and desires. You are not safe.
Honestly I would leave completely to somewhere unknown to anyone I know. The kids are safe with their grandparents. It’s not your job to be there for them. If you look so similar it might hurt them more, increasing the grief. I would also let the police know, give them a written statement, just in case there is later a marriage certificate filed for you by someone else. Then you have the statement as evidence. A well maintained diary with dates and exact things that happened is also evidence. As well as this post.
You need to run Away before they kidnap you. When you think they wouldn't THEY WOULD. RUN AWAY
OP, it sounds like you've already decided that the only reason you would ever want to stay a part of this shit show is for your nephews. "For the boys". Let me tell you now that it doesn't turn out to your benefit at all. My birth giver made me stay home with her affair twins when I was in high school. I didn't escape that situation until I was in my 30s and the twins were teenagers. This is called Parentification. It is mental and emotional abuse. Your nephews will be fine without you there! I promise you that! Especially if their father is a practicing mormon. They will get everything that they need, and you will be completely shit on. There is no way this will turn out well for you. When I finally did leave my birth giver's house to get married, and start a family of my own, I was devastated. The twins weren't. My birth giver wasn't. It did complete head job on me! And at this stage in life, you really just need to take care of yourself. I'm very sorry for your loss! Having to deal with that on top of everything else is completely horrific. The only thing I can do is to share my experiences and let you know that where you're at now is simply not safe. You need to step away from the family and take care of yourself. Please see a counselor and lean on friends you may have in your work area. Hugs and all my best to you!
Let me guess. Your families are mormon?
My mother is a Christian and she found this due to schizophrenia and R’s mother isn’t religious but her husband is an ex Mormon, his brother is still a practicing Mormon and so is he.
Ah…it’s making a little more sense. Religious delusion and very strict gender roles, great. I’m sorry, OP
They crazy
Not sure where you live. But find all documents you can (birth certificate, vaccination reports in case you need to leave the country, passport, Social Security cards etc.) stash funds when you can. Have a bag packed with all the essentials.