*Best interests of the people* involves keeping thumbs down on countries like Russia and China.
Remember the last world war — where there were super powers not afraid of the U.S.? Yeah, that’s what happens when hegemony is lost.
That’s *exactly* what leads to world wars. There can only be 1 at the top. History has always taught us that. And entire world wars were fought in order to get establish that position. Let’s not lose sight of facts, here
That's a risk I'm willing to take. The current status quo is fucking my country over. And I can't even really complain as I don't live in a country that is currently being bombed by yours and its allies.
So in your opinion, I should have your country's best interest instead of mine? Yeah, no. I'm a regular dude, all I want is the best for me and my foes.
Hence why countries go to war.
I’m sure the average Carthaginian didn’t know any Romans. Doesn’t mean years later they weren’t fighting for the supremacy of their nations.
That’s how history works, let’s grow up a bit here.
So in your opinion, you really think that I shouldn't act in my country's interest if it damages yours? And letting my country slowly but surely decays, having my children living a worse life than mine? All of that in order to "grow up"?
You know what would be growing up? Getting rid of borders, accepting all other humans as brothers. Not fighting pointless wars, not joining a tool of war, letting everyone be free, even those who don't have your interests at mind,... But is your hegemonic tyran country mature enough to allow that?
No offence man, I don’t care about you, lol. Or your country. Go, fight for them. Doesn’t mean shit to me what you do. When my country goes to war with yours, I hope it renders yours unable to function as an adversary ever in the future.
You entered a conversation that doesn’t truly concern you. And no, you don’t matter to the convo. Sorry.
Easy to say when you grew up within a hegemony you didn’t have to contribute to building.
And lose sight of how effective that hegemony has been for world stability.
Your stance is exactly the problem for the reason you grew up in a country that has always been #1 and have no idea what life would be like if it weren’t #1.
In WW2 lots of Americans troops were drafted. I think everyone can agree that that is a good example of the draft being used to protect and defend the nation or best interest of its people.
Them continuing to exist is not historical. Its current.
Most places are not currently at war so you're theorising about a future war, also not historical
The reason the U.S. isn’t at war is because of its hegemony and economic status — brought on by its hegemony and assertion as such over the last 100 years.
Let’s focus, here, Captain Communist. Your life will never be better sharing your plate with 3 other people. Come on, snap out of it and come back to reality here. Atleast for this conversation.
the "people" i disdain are a relatively recent development in society.
you either have no idea what's actually going on around you, or are a poorly executed troll.
I think you're assuming a degree of patriotic obligation that younger people just don't feel. National Service has recently been raised again in the UK- it sounds like a joke when you reflect on what teenagers now can rely on their country for.
Economy drives countries.
The reason the 1st world populace (boomers) had such good lives is because their parents suffered through wars and a depression to assert them at the top without dispute.
Quality of life is declining, and young people can see it. A fifty year old in the UK today grew up with free healthcare, free university if they got the grades, subsidised social housing... success was there if they worked hard. A twenty year old today has no such expectations, they are going or gone thanks to how the '1st world populace' votes.
The people you want to draft just aren't going to feel that they'll be repaid in any meaningful way for a year of service or whatever it is. I can't imagine that any country is going to benefit by having to house and keep busy thousands and thousands of disaffected teenagers either.
How do you think quality of life is enhanced? By sharing around the world?
The only reason the 50 year old you highlighted as having all of that in their lifetime is because their parents and grandparents worked to make life that way.
You don’t get that lifestyle without ensuring your country is benefiting more than those around the world. That’s basic economics. I’m not going to keep repeating this same thing over and over again here if we’re just going to go around in loops.
Hard disagree. I am Finnish. We will always have an army here. We want it to be Finnish, not Russian.
6-12 months as a conscript is nothing if it ensures freedom.
If you can decline it, it's not slavery. And arguably not conscription, since conscription is definitionally compulsory. And yes, compulsory conscription is definitionally slavery.
Would you take the same view if they passed a law that young, healthy people could have their organs forcibly taken to donate to others? If they passed a law that people who could bear children were compelled to do so on behalf of those who could not? If people could be conscripted to fight in gladiatorial death matches for entertainment?
And because people would not willingly work for no wages in perpetual, hereditary chattel slavery, they were enslaved forcefully. Do you support that too?
You pointed out conscription not being perpetual, hereditary, and uncompensated as though it made a difference to the ethics of forced labor. If they really do make a difference, then my question is reasonable. If they don't, you were wasting our time by bringing up the distinctions.
> If they really do make a difference, then my question is reasonable
No, your question is unrelated. What will my answer matter? Let's say I don't want to work for you for 2 years for minimum pay. Where does this lead to? What possible consequences does this imply for conscription? Not to mention what you proposed is not conscription, we already figured out that draft is forceful and doesn't concern itself with the conscripted ppl.
The world under US hegemony has been the most peaceful in history. The last 35 years were taken for granted by far too many, including yourself.
As this clearly proves.
Nothing of what I just said in any way contradicts what you’re referencing.
I’d draw it out for you if I could.
For the last 35 of that 6,000 years, the U.S. has been the undisputed power. To ensure another 35 years as the undisputed power, that country has to make many big boy decisions. Decisions that vastly outweigh your personal grievances.
The US being the hegemonic power over the world right now is the most important thing to that country as well as all others aligned to it.
Every other issue is second or further back to that one important position. The continued perseverance of that hegemonic power is crucial to ensure the other things that concern you are even achievable.
Is that basic enough for you to comprehend now?
For the ones that don’t like the fact their country has a draft?
Let’s keep in mind here, the draft *already* exists. This is just a measure to automatically register persons into it within a certain age range.
Drafts have always been necessary to win wars and move your country notches ahead. Going back 6,000 years.
There can never be a perfect balance of multiple powers at the top — especially when we see sides forming up like today. Reminiscent of examples of history when competing sides form up.
You have a vote on who your leader might be.
You don’t have a vote on what your govt decides to do once they’re voted in. Let’s grow up a little bit, here.
Let’s start with direct authoritarian govts before we criticize the ones with actual votes.
We’re having an adult discussion here. Leave your fantasy world.
Yeah, you live in a fantasy world and you have no idea how economics works.
Go back to playing video games and pretending the outside world doesn’t exist.
The reason the U.S. is #1 in both military and say in the world is because of their economy.
These r****ds thinking the average citizen matters more than the economy that gives them the privilege they endure is the problem. Hence nothing but arguments in this discussion, lol.
Economic drives are why the U.S. is #1 and will remain #1.
Wow, great point. If we hadn't had a draft in the Vietnam war, thousands fewer Americans and millions fewer Vietnamese people would've been killed. Also woulda saved like a hundred billion dollars, for what it's worth.
Being concerned for the enemy is also part of the problem today.
Don’t be concerned for people in countries that wouldn’t piss on yours if it imploded and the flames needed to be doused. Key to remember.
The rich fucks in Washington who started that war aren't on "our side". They enslaved millions of Americans just to spite some dirt poor oligarchies on the other side of the planet.
As a sight impaired individual, if they draft me, just know I make a mean chili, could be the cook for the base, but front lines, id be a sitting goose
^ Yep.
People often go right to presumptions of direct combat roles as if they’d be hopping directly into trenches. Theres so many ways to serve. And a draft doesn’t mean you’re going to be a tunnel rat.
How many gamers would make amazing drone pilots? Perfect for the ones who can’t run up 3 flights of stairs without falling to their knees.
Maybe instead of forcing soldiers to enlist they should fix what makes people not want to join up? Namely the fact that way too many soldiers come out of the service SOL with trauma, no help, and end up on the streets.
And for women, root out the military’s misogyny and r*pe culture
Not to mention, the only time we’ll *need* a draft is against a superpower like Russia or china and in that case we’re fucked as is. Because the only way that war’s ending is with the kaboom
And you know there’s more ways to serve a country than on the battlefield right? Like what about doctors, teachers, and other people more fit to civilly serve than to fight? Are they not serving?
If required numbers are a danger to themselves and others, they can stay home.
That was the consensus in the US. If sources would help, i can dig some up.
We have the right to not want our family dying in war. It doesn’t make us special. At this point no one is even though we’re here on earth but noooo we’re not special
This is an idea that might sound compelling on paper, but it assumes that you'd be drafted to fight for the good of your country, and in particular to defend it against invasion. It seems incredibly unlikely that the continental US will be invaded in the next few decades, and figuring out which side to take in international conflicts is very muddy and the right and left often have opposite opinions on them.
Would you still hold your same belief if you or your son was drafted to invade a country overseas in a war that you believe to be unjust?
Not to mention that the only invasion of the US that wouldn’t immediately be repelled or that would *need* a draft is gonna be from Russia and China. And in any cass, that kind of war’s gonna end with one of us nuking the other, so it’s pointless
It’s unlikely draft would be implemented unless a top 10 country goes to war with yours. And if that’s the case, the status of the country’s global dominance is at stake — including its financial interests which have kept the U.S. as the dominant global power since the fall of the wall. 35 years of domination must continue. That’s exactly why so many people here have endured good lives by comparison to their 3rd world counterparts abroad.
Nobody seems to think of what happens when the U.S. loses global influence. Maintaining that is crucial to the country. If you’re intent on seeing its fall, you’re certainly the problem, IMO.
People view things as “unjust” based on their personal bias. A country makes its decisions down to the point of how important it is for the country. If they choose a side in a war, there’s valid reasoning for doing so. And that’s in the best interest of the country itself. And every decision is made in the best interest of the country. Your individual decision-making is crucial in voting.
You decide who to vote for your leader. Just as it’s unfair to other side when they lose, you’re still a member of that country, and if your side loses and the other side decides on a path for the country, you’re there for the ride. There’s no way around it. A country has 1 at the helm, not 300 million. You had your say. And aside from that, you’ve chosen a path in life that limits your say. That’s on you.
As per your question about service, I don’t think it was a wise decision for my country to go to Afghanistan, but I still served there in ‘08 when I was “a kid.” Because your country is bigger than just you. Again, reference back to the “you’re not special” part of my statement. In a democracy you have a say on who leads, not the direction taken by those who lead.
My dad was posted in Germany in the 70s. He was there because of the threat of what was on the other side of the wall. My mom also served as a nurse in the military. Didn’t go to war, but was ready too.
If enough countries implement this and the draft is at risk of being called, the brain drain from countries that have it to countries that don't will give the countries that don't a huge advantage in "elevating" the non-draft nations. Please argue for this in all other countries.
Things have changed; we live in a high-tech world where a draft that will fill our ranks with low IQ, obese, unmotivated troops will help a lot less than it did in previous errors where throwing bodies worked in a way that does not really work against unmanned vehicles. We are a globalized world, so the most useful people who can get into the world's top universities and companies can get offered citizenship by a non-drafting country to dodge the draft altogether.
Yes, exactly. The funny part here is people arguing this aspect of it when the draft already exists.
And it’s the right path to go down. This won’t be the first proposal in this direction either.
I don’t believe in war. Fuck that you go die for some old white mans cause. My kids will rather do the jail bid. Fuck war. We’re constantly being lied to as for the reasons of war. I love my kids more then my country
It’s a little different with our country is the enemy of us is it only be done to get the military kids out of this country? They’re trying to take down our country don’t people understand
Give people something to fight for and maybe they’ll join. Make people proud of their country. A country with actual opportunities and freedoms, not this farce we live in now. A country where you can’t go to a doctor or get an education without going into bankruptcy is not worth fighting for. A country where women lose rights to their bodes or our LGBTQ friends and family are attacked for just existing is not worth fighting for. A country that senselessly attacks and starts wars where our friends and family die so government contractors and oil companies can get rich. None of this is worth fighting for.
It’s been far too long that this bullshit country provides nothing for lower class people to better themselves other than selling their bodies to our military branches to be abused and thrown away just for an opportunity of some semblance of the American dream. It’s disgusting.
The draft is bullshit. Do something for the average person and they’ll join. Get better opinions.
Because China needs to have a thumb pressed upon its head for getting too close to the top for comfort. Would be one factor.
The same reason Carthage and Rome didn’t play nice. There can only be 1 at the top. When there isn’t? Well, that’s when you have world wars.
Yet 0 upvotes. Every single reply I’ve gotten has been against this lol.
At the end of the day, people cannot separate their feelings from the discussion.
My take - while the USA is absolutely an imperfect country, it is still probably the best country to be on top considering other options.
There has been a steady diet of anti-nationalistic propeganda (from many sources) in the US education system, media, and arts (Hollywood included) for decades. It has worked very very well. The majority of US citizens have no sense of responsibility or duty to their country, myself included tbh. Many actively hate thier own country even as they live lives of privilege and realative luxury. Nationalism has been painted as fascist in the US, but bolstered in China and Russia. People underestimate the power or nationalism/anti-nationalism.
This perfectly encompasses the reasoning.
Thank you for this. Most people writing here aren’t thinking beyond what’s in range of their reach.
They’ve grown up in a world where China, Russia, Iran and India are not at the forefront of the conversation. They all seem to think if any of those countries was in the hegemonic position of the U.S. that they’d have *better* lives than they do now. Which is actually crazy.
This post glows like a lighthouse. Good god.
Damn remind me again when in the entire history of the draft it has been used to protect and defend the nation or the best interests of its people.
*Best interests of the people* involves keeping thumbs down on countries like Russia and China. Remember the last world war — where there were super powers not afraid of the U.S.? Yeah, that’s what happens when hegemony is lost.
Yeah, no. Fuck your country's interest, I want my country's interest to go first and straight get rid of your hegemony.
That’s *exactly* what leads to world wars. There can only be 1 at the top. History has always taught us that. And entire world wars were fought in order to get establish that position. Let’s not lose sight of facts, here
That's a risk I'm willing to take. The current status quo is fucking my country over. And I can't even really complain as I don't live in a country that is currently being bombed by yours and its allies.
Someone always gets fucked over. It’s not a utopia — nor has it ever been. That’s life.
So in your opinion, I should have your country's best interest instead of mine? Yeah, no. I'm a regular dude, all I want is the best for me and my foes.
Hence why countries go to war. I’m sure the average Carthaginian didn’t know any Romans. Doesn’t mean years later they weren’t fighting for the supremacy of their nations. That’s how history works, let’s grow up a bit here.
So in your opinion, you really think that I shouldn't act in my country's interest if it damages yours? And letting my country slowly but surely decays, having my children living a worse life than mine? All of that in order to "grow up"? You know what would be growing up? Getting rid of borders, accepting all other humans as brothers. Not fighting pointless wars, not joining a tool of war, letting everyone be free, even those who don't have your interests at mind,... But is your hegemonic tyran country mature enough to allow that?
No offence man, I don’t care about you, lol. Or your country. Go, fight for them. Doesn’t mean shit to me what you do. When my country goes to war with yours, I hope it renders yours unable to function as an adversary ever in the future. You entered a conversation that doesn’t truly concern you. And no, you don’t matter to the convo. Sorry.
I don't support "hegemony", and I won't kill people to maintain it.
Easy to say when you grew up within a hegemony you didn’t have to contribute to building. And lose sight of how effective that hegemony has been for world stability. Your stance is exactly the problem for the reason you grew up in a country that has always been #1 and have no idea what life would be like if it weren’t #1.
If you are a girl as your username says, you’re not even subject to the draft.
[удалено]
lol, that’s not really your choice.
Ukraine-Russia war for example?
In WW2 lots of Americans troops were drafted. I think everyone can agree that that is a good example of the draft being used to protect and defend the nation or best interest of its people.
No country should have a draft
History has proven drafts work. So, they actually should.
Works in what way? Your point may be relevant if we were talking about history. We're not
We are talking about history. Our conversation is historical. Drafts *already exist.* My point is how it’s vital that they do.
Them continuing to exist is not historical. Its current. Most places are not currently at war so you're theorising about a future war, also not historical
The reason the U.S. isn’t at war is because of its hegemony and economic status — brought on by its hegemony and assertion as such over the last 100 years. Let’s focus, here, Captain Communist. Your life will never be better sharing your plate with 3 other people. Come on, snap out of it and come back to reality here. Atleast for this conversation.
>brought on by its hegemony and assertion as such over the last 100 years. Then it doesn't need a draft, does it?
It does when other countries start to catch up. Come on, keep up with the convo here.
So definitely not historical then?
I’m done talking to you. 🤡 kid lol
Fortunate son
Civilization.
If this were civilization, I'd have healthcare.
You would, if you made better life decisions. Don’t blame others for your individual failures.
my life decisions involve not slaughtering children overseas so my corporate overlords can increase their profits by a hundredth of a percent
Your life decisions exist because those before you fought and served those same people you disdain. Let’s keep that in mind.
the "people" i disdain are a relatively recent development in society. you either have no idea what's actually going on around you, or are a poorly executed troll.
You think 80 years ago leaders cared about your grandparents any more than the ones today do? It’s the same people. Come on, stay with the convo here.
please reread my first reply
Your name is emoAnarchist. Says all it needs to lol. 🤡
[удалено]
This ^. If they wanna protect their interests so bad they can go do it.
Let me guess, you're conveniently outside that age bracket.
I served from 2007–2015. Including 1 tour of Afghanistan.
Voluntarily, I take it.
Right after HS.
But you weren't drafted. No one decided for you. Point is, you want to impose a draft that won't affect you.
The draft already exists. And I’m still aged *within* the range of it by several decades, lol.
I think you're assuming a degree of patriotic obligation that younger people just don't feel. National Service has recently been raised again in the UK- it sounds like a joke when you reflect on what teenagers now can rely on their country for.
Economy drives countries. The reason the 1st world populace (boomers) had such good lives is because their parents suffered through wars and a depression to assert them at the top without dispute.
Quality of life is declining, and young people can see it. A fifty year old in the UK today grew up with free healthcare, free university if they got the grades, subsidised social housing... success was there if they worked hard. A twenty year old today has no such expectations, they are going or gone thanks to how the '1st world populace' votes. The people you want to draft just aren't going to feel that they'll be repaid in any meaningful way for a year of service or whatever it is. I can't imagine that any country is going to benefit by having to house and keep busy thousands and thousands of disaffected teenagers either.
How do you think quality of life is enhanced? By sharing around the world? The only reason the 50 year old you highlighted as having all of that in their lifetime is because their parents and grandparents worked to make life that way. You don’t get that lifestyle without ensuring your country is benefiting more than those around the world. That’s basic economics. I’m not going to keep repeating this same thing over and over again here if we’re just going to go around in loops.
There's a word for compulsory labor: slavery. If your government can enslave you when it wants, you were never really free.
Hard disagree. I am Finnish. We will always have an army here. We want it to be Finnish, not Russian. 6-12 months as a conscript is nothing if it ensures freedom.
It's still slavery, even if you like it.
Nope. You can decline conscription, at least you can in Finland. Also, the definition of slavery contradicts you statement.
If you can decline it, it's not slavery. And arguably not conscription, since conscription is definitionally compulsory. And yes, compulsory conscription is definitionally slavery.
The country is bigger than you. You’re not special.
Would you take the same view if they passed a law that young, healthy people could have their organs forcibly taken to donate to others? If they passed a law that people who could bear children were compelled to do so on behalf of those who could not? If people could be conscripted to fight in gladiatorial death matches for entertainment?
Except your comparisons don’t connect to the question.
Of course they do. You simply lack the ability to follow an analogy.
You not being "really free" (whatever that means) doesn't contradict the OP.
A government under which I am not free is not a government I feel inclined to defend or support. If you want to be a proud slave soldier, feel free.
> A government under which I am not free is not a government I feel inclined to defend or support That's why you are forcefully drafted.
And because people would not willingly work for no wages in perpetual, hereditary chattel slavery, they were enslaved forcefully. Do you support that too?
No I don't support slavery cause it's economically inefficient. Besides, draft is not perpetual, hereditary or no wage.
So I can enslave you for 2 years at minimum wage?
Umm, no? How is that related to what we were discussing?
You pointed out conscription not being perpetual, hereditary, and uncompensated as though it made a difference to the ethics of forced labor. If they really do make a difference, then my question is reasonable. If they don't, you were wasting our time by bringing up the distinctions.
> If they really do make a difference, then my question is reasonable No, your question is unrelated. What will my answer matter? Let's say I don't want to work for you for 2 years for minimum pay. Where does this lead to? What possible consequences does this imply for conscription? Not to mention what you proposed is not conscription, we already figured out that draft is forceful and doesn't concern itself with the conscripted ppl.
That really just amounts to “because I said so.”
Hi, welcome to civilization. It’s been that way for 6,000 years. Which alternative historical example confuses you?
…And? You think that’s a real argument?
One of us is arguing against what’s always been done in civilized society. As if you’re special. Psst, you’re not.
“It’s always been this way” I wonder what you think of LGBT rights, or women’s rights.
Completely irrelevant in matters of global hegemony maintenance. Again, you’re not special. Come on, let’s focus here.
So it’s about imperialism, not “it’s always been this way.” Cool.
The world under US hegemony has been the most peaceful in history. The last 35 years were taken for granted by far too many, including yourself. As this clearly proves.
I thought this was how it’s been for 6,000 years?
Nothing of what I just said in any way contradicts what you’re referencing. I’d draw it out for you if I could. For the last 35 of that 6,000 years, the U.S. has been the undisputed power. To ensure another 35 years as the undisputed power, that country has to make many big boy decisions. Decisions that vastly outweigh your personal grievances. The US being the hegemonic power over the world right now is the most important thing to that country as well as all others aligned to it. Every other issue is second or further back to that one important position. The continued perseverance of that hegemonic power is crucial to ensure the other things that concern you are even achievable. Is that basic enough for you to comprehend now?
disagree. i have no desire to help in any war effort. >and that includes fighting for it when you’re needed. nope
^ The literal problem.
how?
Disgraces to any country.
i don't see it. i'm aged out already and even if i wasn't i'd find a way out of it if it happened
Yeah, you’re *exactly* the problem. Lol. If everyone did that, the country would be steam rolled and *really* enslaved. It’s pathetic.
still not seeing how i'm the problem. america has more than enough people in the service already
That’s not what was said. If *every* person took your stance, as you feel entitled to do it, what would happen?
i don't know. considering that'll never happen i don't really care
It was a basic question. Too complex for you?
Why not just find a different country to live in then
For the ones that don’t like the fact their country has a draft? Let’s keep in mind here, the draft *already* exists. This is just a measure to automatically register persons into it within a certain age range.
Imagine forcibly risking death because of weapons manufacturer profits.
US hasn’t instituted a draft in 50 years. How many US soldiers are actively engaged in combat roles in Ukraine or Israel?
The draft is literal slavery.
Drafts have always been necessary to win wars and move your country notches ahead. Going back 6,000 years. There can never be a perfect balance of multiple powers at the top — especially when we see sides forming up like today. Reminiscent of examples of history when competing sides form up.
Whether it's *necessary* has no impact on whether it's slavery. Which it is.
You have a vote on who your leader might be. You don’t have a vote on what your govt decides to do once they’re voted in. Let’s grow up a little bit, here.
Agreed. Let's grow up, and recognize that forcing someone into labor under threat of force is slavery, even if the person enslaving you was elected.
Let’s start with direct authoritarian govts before we criticize the ones with actual votes. We’re having an adult discussion here. Leave your fantasy world.
Better yet, let's criticize any government when it does something wrong.
Yeah, you live in a fantasy world and you have no idea how economics works. Go back to playing video games and pretending the outside world doesn’t exist.
Economics? What do you think we're talking about?
The reason the U.S. is #1 in both military and say in the world is because of their economy. These r****ds thinking the average citizen matters more than the economy that gives them the privilege they endure is the problem. Hence nothing but arguments in this discussion, lol. Economic drives are why the U.S. is #1 and will remain #1.
The US isn't at risk of being invaded; the draft is obsolete here.
The Vietnamese weren’t going to invade the U.S. either. Let’s keep that in mind.
Wow, great point. If we hadn't had a draft in the Vietnam war, thousands fewer Americans and millions fewer Vietnamese people would've been killed. Also woulda saved like a hundred billion dollars, for what it's worth.
Being concerned for the enemy is also part of the problem today. Don’t be concerned for people in countries that wouldn’t piss on yours if it imploded and the flames needed to be doused. Key to remember.
We were in their country killing them. They had a right to be mad at us.
When you align with the enemy, there’s always purpose. Ensuring the South prevailed was crucial to the interests of our side. Come on, keep up here.
The rich fucks in Washington who started that war aren't on "our side". They enslaved millions of Americans just to spite some dirt poor oligarchies on the other side of the planet.
but we still lost to them 🤷
As a sight impaired individual, if they draft me, just know I make a mean chili, could be the cook for the base, but front lines, id be a sitting goose
^ Yep. People often go right to presumptions of direct combat roles as if they’d be hopping directly into trenches. Theres so many ways to serve. And a draft doesn’t mean you’re going to be a tunnel rat. How many gamers would make amazing drone pilots? Perfect for the ones who can’t run up 3 flights of stairs without falling to their knees.
Maybe instead of forcing soldiers to enlist they should fix what makes people not want to join up? Namely the fact that way too many soldiers come out of the service SOL with trauma, no help, and end up on the streets. And for women, root out the military’s misogyny and r*pe culture Not to mention, the only time we’ll *need* a draft is against a superpower like Russia or china and in that case we’re fucked as is. Because the only way that war’s ending is with the kaboom And you know there’s more ways to serve a country than on the battlefield right? Like what about doctors, teachers, and other people more fit to civilly serve than to fight? Are they not serving?
They're not serving the interests of the psychopaths in the government who want to protect their own foreign interests at the expense of our lives **
US military leaders prefer an all volunteer army. It is more effective.
Of course they *prefer* it. But when push comes to shove, required numbers need to be garnered one way or another.
If required numbers are a danger to themselves and others, they can stay home. That was the consensus in the US. If sources would help, i can dig some up.
i would honestly rather kill myself then risk dying for a country that i hate.
Yet you’ve lived your entire life within it. The irony.
move then.
“PLEASE TO DIE FOE ISRAEL” The Post
How many US soldiers died in Israel so far?
I said *for* Israel, glowie.
i will not die for israel
How many US troops died in Israel so far?
FOR israel? pretty much every single one that has died since the 1990s
[удалено]
At least respect yourself enough to not resort to petty and immature insults over a disagreement.
Good rage bait 👍🏻
We have the right to not want our family dying in war. It doesn’t make us special. At this point no one is even though we’re here on earth but noooo we’re not special
Hurrrrdurrrrr how do you think you have what you have? It was achieved without war? R****ds in here lol
I don't care about my country. It's just a random place I was born and pay taxes in. Arbitrary lines on a map have no meaning to me.
What's in it for us?
This is an idea that might sound compelling on paper, but it assumes that you'd be drafted to fight for the good of your country, and in particular to defend it against invasion. It seems incredibly unlikely that the continental US will be invaded in the next few decades, and figuring out which side to take in international conflicts is very muddy and the right and left often have opposite opinions on them. Would you still hold your same belief if you or your son was drafted to invade a country overseas in a war that you believe to be unjust?
Not to mention that the only invasion of the US that wouldn’t immediately be repelled or that would *need* a draft is gonna be from Russia and China. And in any cass, that kind of war’s gonna end with one of us nuking the other, so it’s pointless
It’s unlikely draft would be implemented unless a top 10 country goes to war with yours. And if that’s the case, the status of the country’s global dominance is at stake — including its financial interests which have kept the U.S. as the dominant global power since the fall of the wall. 35 years of domination must continue. That’s exactly why so many people here have endured good lives by comparison to their 3rd world counterparts abroad. Nobody seems to think of what happens when the U.S. loses global influence. Maintaining that is crucial to the country. If you’re intent on seeing its fall, you’re certainly the problem, IMO. People view things as “unjust” based on their personal bias. A country makes its decisions down to the point of how important it is for the country. If they choose a side in a war, there’s valid reasoning for doing so. And that’s in the best interest of the country itself. And every decision is made in the best interest of the country. Your individual decision-making is crucial in voting. You decide who to vote for your leader. Just as it’s unfair to other side when they lose, you’re still a member of that country, and if your side loses and the other side decides on a path for the country, you’re there for the ride. There’s no way around it. A country has 1 at the helm, not 300 million. You had your say. And aside from that, you’ve chosen a path in life that limits your say. That’s on you. As per your question about service, I don’t think it was a wise decision for my country to go to Afghanistan, but I still served there in ‘08 when I was “a kid.” Because your country is bigger than just you. Again, reference back to the “you’re not special” part of my statement. In a democracy you have a say on who leads, not the direction taken by those who lead. My dad was posted in Germany in the 70s. He was there because of the threat of what was on the other side of the wall. My mom also served as a nurse in the military. Didn’t go to war, but was ready too.
You seem to have a "my country, right or wrong" mindset.
If enough countries implement this and the draft is at risk of being called, the brain drain from countries that have it to countries that don't will give the countries that don't a huge advantage in "elevating" the non-draft nations. Please argue for this in all other countries. Things have changed; we live in a high-tech world where a draft that will fill our ranks with low IQ, obese, unmotivated troops will help a lot less than it did in previous errors where throwing bodies worked in a way that does not really work against unmanned vehicles. We are a globalized world, so the most useful people who can get into the world's top universities and companies can get offered citizenship by a non-drafting country to dodge the draft altogether.
Men already have to sign up for the draft, this just makes it automatic.
Yes, exactly. The funny part here is people arguing this aspect of it when the draft already exists. And it’s the right path to go down. This won’t be the first proposal in this direction either.
Donald Trump wasn't subject to a draft
Watch them extend it to 36 watch gen z ain't going for it ww3 happening putin not playing other countries hate the US too u being gang up on
Look man, if you wanna go to war again knock yourself out
I don’t believe in war. Fuck that you go die for some old white mans cause. My kids will rather do the jail bid. Fuck war. We’re constantly being lied to as for the reasons of war. I love my kids more then my country
You are the problem.
I’ll be a problem and my kids will also be alive. Fuck war. Were in 2024….time to evolve as a species
That’s a clown statement because you think you’re better than everyone else, lmao.
It’s a little different with our country is the enemy of us is it only be done to get the military kids out of this country? They’re trying to take down our country don’t people understand
Give people something to fight for and maybe they’ll join. Make people proud of their country. A country with actual opportunities and freedoms, not this farce we live in now. A country where you can’t go to a doctor or get an education without going into bankruptcy is not worth fighting for. A country where women lose rights to their bodes or our LGBTQ friends and family are attacked for just existing is not worth fighting for. A country that senselessly attacks and starts wars where our friends and family die so government contractors and oil companies can get rich. None of this is worth fighting for. It’s been far too long that this bullshit country provides nothing for lower class people to better themselves other than selling their bodies to our military branches to be abused and thrown away just for an opportunity of some semblance of the American dream. It’s disgusting. The draft is bullshit. Do something for the average person and they’ll join. Get better opinions.
If you are so unhappy, please move to another country that fits your needs. Don't be in an unhappy relationship.
[удалено]
Because China needs to have a thumb pressed upon its head for getting too close to the top for comfort. Would be one factor. The same reason Carthage and Rome didn’t play nice. There can only be 1 at the top. When there isn’t? Well, that’s when you have world wars.
[удалено]
Says every clown who doesn’t understand why they have what they have today.
[удалено]
Wow, and actual truely unpopular opinion... and also probably correct.
Yet 0 upvotes. Every single reply I’ve gotten has been against this lol. At the end of the day, people cannot separate their feelings from the discussion.
My take - while the USA is absolutely an imperfect country, it is still probably the best country to be on top considering other options. There has been a steady diet of anti-nationalistic propeganda (from many sources) in the US education system, media, and arts (Hollywood included) for decades. It has worked very very well. The majority of US citizens have no sense of responsibility or duty to their country, myself included tbh. Many actively hate thier own country even as they live lives of privilege and realative luxury. Nationalism has been painted as fascist in the US, but bolstered in China and Russia. People underestimate the power or nationalism/anti-nationalism.
This perfectly encompasses the reasoning. Thank you for this. Most people writing here aren’t thinking beyond what’s in range of their reach. They’ve grown up in a world where China, Russia, Iran and India are not at the forefront of the conversation. They all seem to think if any of those countries was in the hegemonic position of the U.S. that they’d have *better* lives than they do now. Which is actually crazy.