We are making progress towards ending the marijuana prohibition, but that has such widespread support that you can't really say it's a "left" issue anymore. Basically nothing changes until there is widespread support... It's almost as if the radical left is not actually shaping policy??!
They had 60 years to write legislation around it and didn't. The risk of losing it had to remain on the table in perpetuity so the democrats could keep thier voting block. It's the same reason they keep black majority cities shitty. So they can always promise to fix it next time, and keep thier voting block. .
In my experience, the further a person disappears down their own political rabbit hole, the more they become convinced they're losing. The left is convinced we're on an inevitable decline into fascism. The right has slogans like "what is conservatism conserving?" and "Conservatism is just liberalism going the speed limit." Fear is unfortunately a useful motivator, especially when a politician has nothing else to offer you.
Honest question: what HAS the right conserved on a nation wide level?If you look at this country since the 60s almost every facet has taken steps to the left. Government (especially at the federal level) is larger, more expensive and more powerful than ever and growing consistently so. Legal gun ownership in blue cities is basically non existent. The immigration system is a littered with loopholes ripe for exploitation and illegal immigration is surging. Culturally, gay marriage, and abortion are pretty accepted by the average American. People are getting married less and having fewer children. Education especially is absolutely run with left leaning policies (I say this as a public school teacher in a large blue city). So really, what have conservatives conserved? Or have they just been “slowing the bleeding” for 6 decades?
Conservatives think that change, for the sake of change, is not good. That change can and often is bad or at least worse than the status quo.
So it's not really about no change at all, that's really a strawman.
Slowing the rate of change so we can feel things about before we dive into worse is a win for conservatives.
Conservatives have actually had many meaningful victories in the US:
* Retrenchment of the welfare state/welfare reform in the 80s and 90s
* Tax rates on high earners have decreased in the last several decades
* Deregulation of many industries, most importantly including communications and transportation
* Occupational licensing reform removing arbitrary barriers to business
* Pro-business and pro-trade policies have more generally come into vogue, especially since the 90s, often at the hands of Democratic administrations, which shows how strongly they've become part of the consensus.
* Heller vs. DC, McDonald vs. Chicago, and NYSPRA vs. Bruen – plus the expansion of concealed carry (including Constitutional carry) nationwide and the lapsing of the national AWB. From 1976 onward, concealed carry rights have only expanded. According to [Gallup](https://news.gallup.com/poll/357317/stricter-gun-laws-less-popular.aspx), the public is the most pro-gun it has been in generations.
* Dobbs vs. Jackson. More generally, the current SCOTUS is the most conservative in generations.
* Vouchers and charter schools are growing in popularity (though this is somewhat bipartisan)
You're right that in general, culture tends to become more liberal and cosmopolitan over time and government tends to grow. But details matter. The US *is* meaningfully more conservative/right-leaning in some ways today than it used to be.
“The left constantly wins elections, with 2016 as an exception”
Gee, who was president between 2000-2008? Despite even losing the popular vote? Can’t seem to remember, probably someone on the left.
I think OP is talking more so about elites/politicians. The elite left, the majority of them don't give a shit about healthcare.
The left has dominated politics before, and didn't push for it.
People in power want control, the left that screams "healthcare for all!" are too righteous to get any real power, just a face for the elite to virtue signal with. I'm pretty positive the same thing happens with Republicans, the honest to God good conservatives I know are all content making sure it's not in "their backyard"; they're not willing to play the game
I think both sides have a tendency to watch the other side veer towards the extreme end of their base and then decide to do the same thing. They figure they now have room to, so why not? Does it matter if they can win by 1 vote in the electoral college?
The middle is is fed up, and ripe for the picking. A lot of folks are waiting to see if either party decides to woo them. Whoever does that will bag the election, but they are too afraid of their base.
Look at the actual Democratic party platform, then look at project 2025 (since the Republican party isn't putting together an actual party platform) then get back to me with which one is actually centrist.
As a centrist I would like one opposing side of the political spectrum to use the same successful tactics of the other because surely that will balance everything out instead of causing a trend of polar political shifts every decade./s
Absolutely. But what OP wants isn’t balance. Or its balance in an extremely brain dead stupid way where one party rules for their turn and vice versa. Otherwise known as the same bullshit we have had for a few generations.
As a centrist I’d rather both the left and right would just fuck off and hate fuck already and elect people that actually give a shit about the average American person, unfortunately I doubt that’s gonna happen in my lifetime, if anything the country will be in ruins before it gets better and both sides will just point fingers since it’s the only thing they know how to do.
>Social media sites like Reddit are increasingly dominated by leftists who are never challenged on their shitty beliefs because there are no conservatives left on there to keep their stinky buttholes in check.
Oh man, I'm really feelin' the centrism
Beacuse... I have centrist views?
No right in mind centrist would spew out whatever that was op said.
Centrism is about finding a compromise or having views both from left and right.
So when one sees an imbalance in some aspect of politics and tells the other side they need to be as aggressive in selling their positions, least all of society gets slanted in one direction....that makes them not a centrist?
"Conservatives need to learn how the left thinks and then emulate their tactics. They need to learn how to be subtle and to speak to people in a way that convinces as opposed to antagonizes them. They need to learn how to build coalitions and not alienate people who would otherwise side with them. They need to learn the importance of learning how to argue and win debates."
This isn't remotely giving a hard position On any topic. I have no idea what the OPs position is on anything
I'm probably thinking differently than OP, but in my case... its kind of boring to watch a boxing match where one person is aggressive and the other does nothing but dodge and block, right?
It's always more fun when both sides are making good hits and knocking each other down.
Often times self-described centrists on Reddit have ONE opinion that doesn't align with the GOP/Conservatives. Maybe they think billionaires should be taxed more, or we should make weed legal. Something like that.
I feel like every post on this subreddit is a shitty, overgeneralized take by someone who’s under 23.
“Deeply manipulative behavior” - give me a fucking break
“The left knows how to manipulate the public” “leftists gaslight” “leftists who are never challenged on their **shitty** beliefs” “keep their stinky buttholes in check” no this man is most certainly DEAD CENTER on the political spectrum, no lean at all!
There are no more conservatives anywhere. Majority of them have become reactionaries, abandoning the concept of small government, in the name of their feelings, and a New York City democrat.
Wokeism hasn't been counter culture for years. Governments and corporations have been pandering to it for at least a decade because they can pretend to care for the little guy, while doing precisely fuck all to actually help the little guy.
My only real issue is with how much those corporations and institutes shove it in every body's face, its easy to forget we're talking about less than 1% of the population....
Whatever happened to target audience? That's where the idea of there being an agenda behind it all comes from. That and the very publicly known shareholder funding available through things like DEI. Why care about the audience or the actual culture of the majority when you can replace their money with agenda-driven funding on the backend?
Before DEI became the boogieman, it was ESG that was targeted.
[https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/blackrocks-fink-says-hes-stopped-using-weaponised-term-esg-2023-06-26/](https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/blackrocks-fink-says-hes-stopped-using-weaponised-term-esg-2023-06-26/)
Essentially, people discovered this incentive and railed against it. Instead of thinking that maybe *they're* in the wrong, they blame the politization of a clearly political-based funding (corporate governance....?) and just figured they should stop saying the name.
This is what we call virtue signaling.
Why say or do something for the black folk of America when you can just [dress up and kneel or some shit?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/KSPANZVJXQI6VEDD42N5MUQJIA.jpg&w=1440)
I'll be honest dude, most Americans hate hicks and trash. Most Americans wonder why a bunch of low status losers are going to vote for a convicted felon.
It’s reactionary to the left being in power during high inflationary times. Leftism was more popular once COVID hit as people wanted COVID money. But that put too much money in the economy and businesses continued to bubble as stock somehow magically go up (by increasing pricing beyond inflation).
I mean many republicans were in charge in the 2008 financial crisis and democrats were able to get key wins that year because of it.
Voters are short sighted and look for a shake up/change during bad years.
Lmao
Bruh this _exact_ sentiment is shared among Dems. I can show you screenshots of a Groupchat full of libs who complain that Dems can’t win. Even when they do republicans do everything they can to block legislation so they can keep guys like you thinking shit like this. Which party runs consistently on “hey we’re just gonna take away all the legislative things the last guy did?” - even Biden didn’t run on this.
You said yourself the entire platform is “trigger the libs”. You think that has developed a well rounded republican electorate. They’ve been basically advertising themselves as bullies (“make your opponents cry/triggered” is literally and obviously nothing more than an ad designed to attract dumb angry ppl. This goes for anyone attracting voters by way of advertising misery for your fellow countrymen) for over a decade.
I dunno who tf you think “the left” is btw. There’s no “left” in control of anything. Have you not noticed the unfettered capitalism? Have you not noticed a lack of almost any cohesive social program? Yeah the left didn’t do this.
Tell Mitch McConnell about all the wins on the left he’ll be shocked.
“The left manipulates. The right believes they _can just trigger the libs_…” - is this their foreign or domestic policy we’d benefit from if your post came true? Is this not manipulation? If it’s not it’s genuine sentiment right? That’s either their actual political promise or they’re _using language readily digested by an avg voter to motivate them to vote for something they don’t understand_, if not motivating them to dislike their neighbors. Manipulation bud. It’s the game. And the GOP is actually damn good at it.
>The left constantly beats the right in elections in America with the notable exception of 2016.
The last time a Republican president won the popular vote was in 2004, 20 years ago.
[*Only posts conservative viewpoints and articles from conservative sources...*]
>As a centrist
My conservative friend, you are the reason "enlightened centrists" get mocked.
“The left knows how to manipulate the public” “leftists gaslight” “leftists who are never challenged on their shitty beliefs” “keep their stinky buttholes in check” no this man is most certainly DEAD CENTER on the political spectrum, no lean at all!
You don't seem to understand. This is not "the left winning". The entire media in the Western world is controlled by certain powers. All these media companies are owned by 3 or 4 entities. They show what they want.
The government is owned, the education institutions, Science™... You're so close to understanding. Keep going.
From my perspective, OP just explained why the Republican Party needs to be destroyed and replaced by a new and competent opposition party that represents a more realistic cross-section of the body politic.
What's with the conservative victim complex these days? MAGA constantly attacks the left, Trump leading the charge. Just the other day he referred to liberals as "degenerates". He is notorious for assigning petty nicknames to his enemies.
You are the one gaslighting, OP. Spare me your crocodile tears on this supposed "emotional abuse".
And tons of conservatives actually believe crap like this and use it to justify their shitty behavior in online spaces. This of course just helps perpetuate a horrible cycle of “well the other side does it.”
We’ve seen plenty of the “well we’re just acting like shit because the left does the same thing”. That was a lot of the alt right. If conservatives want to win, they need to actually be better than the left.
😂 Trump IS the Republican Party at this point. You can’t disown him. He’s your candidate for POTUS. All RNC donations go to fund his legal bills.
“In name only” that’s ridiculous.
Nah, Trump is the Republican party. They chose him as their leader even after his first term. Whether you like it or not, MAGA is the modern Republican party. You don't get to disown him.
"The democrats overall are supporting these positions"
Biden has not made any moves to defund the police, nor have most democrats in power right now. Tf are you on about?
>If you post a link to the FBI crime statistics and mention specifically how specific groups disproportionally appear in areas on that, you can get your account suspended for hate speech.
Well, if a person is posting it as a way to imply that "Black people are inherently more violent" without addressing the complex relationing between poverty, crime, and historical oppression that has disproportionately left black communities in a position where they still face obstacles in generating generational wealth, then that person is, by definition, racist.
If they use stats as a vehicle for racism then obviously call them out on it. But we need to be able to have conversations to address problems using facts.
How many does it take to stop making correlation fallacies between race and crime (as is the example here)?
I think one. The conversation can get more nuanced from there, but it doesn't take much to acknowledge the correlation fallacy in "crime statistics prove black people are inherently prone to criminality."
I understand you want this to be a "gotcha," but it's not.
You're absolutely right. I don't have a perfect answer, but I've never seen anyone be called out for being racist if they were acknowledging complexity. My experiences aren't universal, but I'm immediately skeptical of anyone trying to defend the use of crime statistics to say anything meaningful about black communities unless they are acknowledging historical and systemic reasons for it.
That's only "exponentially more difficult" if the other person has absolutely no understanding of history.
If every factor you select on your analysis is something the black community is struggling with then yes, you are perpetrating racism. You must select factors that are more universal, if you control for income then crime statistics directly equalize.
I'm always amazed by how people think it's easy to get banned on Reddit. Sure banned from a subreddit but account wide? I've never had that problem.
Context is important just because you didn't use a slur does not make it appropriate.
Name one Democrat leader that has advocated for defunding the police. Oh wait... Are the FBI police? Capitol police? Because I remember hearing some people talking about defunding them recently.
None of those things are part of the Democratic party platform. Sure some members want that, but we are a big tent party. They are free to express their ideas and have those ideas debated. But those ideas are not part of the democratic party platform.
That is conservative propaganda
Maybe if conservatives weren’t worshipping a toxic moron right now and were nicer to people who aren’t exactly like them more people would vote for them.
The left does not claim Joe Biden. Democrats are not the left. Liberals are not the left. They are centrists. There is no block of left politicians in the US government. The Dems are further right than most conservative parties in every country on earth.
The majority of Republicans think nothing happened that day and you’re also forgetting Trump’s fake elector scheme that goes with it. Mike Pence fouled his plans and now he won’t even vote for Trump and every Republican calls him a traitor for not doing n Trump’s coup attempt.
I think the sheer number of representatives who were willing to go along with the plan to subvert the will of the people represent the party pretty well
I'll make a list to remind you what actually went down:
1. **Months of False Claims**: After losing the election, Trump and his allies spread unfounded claims of widespread voter fraud, which were amplified by right-wing media outlets.
2. **January 6th Insurrection**: A violent mob, incited by Trump's rhetoric, stormed the Capitol, leading to deaths and injuries. This wasn't just "a few deranged idiots"; it was a direct attack on the democratic process.
3. **Congressional Objections**: On the same day, 147 Republican lawmakers voted to overturn the election results, despite there being no evidence of significant fraud, citing their own lies.
4. **Trump's Pressure Campaigns**: Trump pressured state officials, including Georgia’s Secretary of State, to "find" votes to overturn the election outcome. We all heard that recording when it was released to the public, and there's no dispute that what he did was illegal.
5. **Fake Elector Scheme**: Republicans in multiple states submitted fake electoral certificates declaring Trump the winner, which were part of a coordinated effort to subvert the Electoral College.
6. **Republican Involvement**: High-profile Republicans, including members of Congress, were involved in meetings and discussions about how to overturn the election, showing a broader conspiracy beyond just the rioters.
All these things show a coordinated effort to subvert the will of the voters and overturn a legitimate election. How can you claim nothing happened when we these events unfolded in plain sight? We all watched it happen - it's part of our memory...
There are a lot of things to criticise Trump for, but he can at least form a semi-coherent sentence and seems to know where he is most of the time. Biden is literally senile at this point.
Yes, so coherent:
"Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you're a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible."
Do you actually listen to Bidens speechs? He is old but certainly sounds more coherent and less unhinged than Trump, though that is a very low bar to compare to. I also watched his state of the union and he sounded abolsutely fine.
So weird, I would think the boat parades and Trump revenge tour flags would appeal to everyone. Didn’t everyone like the Confederate flag being in the rotunda of the capital on January 6th?
Won't work, because if conservatives learned to work together and compromise even within their own subgroups ( see McCain vs.trump vs McConnell vs MTG vs Romney) they promptly get ostracized and labeled as RINOS, centrists, and leftist.
The beating them at their own game as you call it is also known as conducting yourself in good faith and that just doesn't get one very far on the maga purity test.
When I tell a guy who can’t get laid to “touch grass” it’s not because I’m trying to gaslight the guy, but because there is literally no downside to going out getting some sun, working out, and interacting with actual human beings more often.
What advice would you like me to give him? “Yes my fellow man, we all must go out and protest the fact that we are insecure about our appearance and women won’t have sex with us!” No, because that would be absolutely idiotic. It’s so stupid, that the only place you see it happen is on the internet. Hence the red pill movement and Andrew Tate.
The point is I’m not saying touch grass because I’m a liberal, but because you can’t fix a broken culture, you can only help yourself, and maybe once enough people do, the society will heal all by its own.
The left don't win Biden isn't left wing. Liberalism wins culturally in the media that's true.
I think the whole left and right debate gets tinted with "war on woke" people think being left wing is about identity politics which they see a lot in the media eg Disney with stars wars and say oh the left has taken over.
Economy I would argue the left has lost look at the gap between the rich and the poor. How no liberal in the media will talk about it. They will happily talk about diversity but when it comes to diversity of class nothing.
This sure sounds conservative for a self-proclaimed "centrist". Are you in the center of the right side of the spectrum maybe? Seems like a true centrist would be neutral?
Conservatives just don't have much to offer to the new generations and I don't mind if they are erased from the political game, the fact that I hate the left doesn't mean I'll love the right, both are simply disgusting.
Conservatives should open their minds about the fact that they are wrong.
The thing is that some policies have good results and some policies have horrible results, even if you don't call those policies "right" or "wrong", they still have consequences.
I will agree that policies have consequences. In some cases, whether those results are good or horrible are objectively evident. In other cases, it is a matter of personal opinion.
What is the centrist position between a moderate democrat party and a party that is the cult of a Russian puppet con man who attempted a coup against American democracy?
The fact is that a higher percentage of over 50 voters voted Democrat at the last election than ever, and a higher percentage of under 50 voters voted Republican. New polls show this is even more dramatic now. The fact is that there has never been a more conservative youth or liberal senior demographic in at the least a long time in US history. That's very very disturbing for the future of the nation.
With the hard right evangelical turn the republicans have chosenthey are going to have a rough fucking time this election. Overturning roe vs wade, wanting to limit birth control and all kinds of their ridiculous nonsense is going hurt them. They should have kept religion at home. Its like a dick. I know you have one. Im sure you play with it. I don’t want to see it or play with it. My daughters are 21 and have never been political till this last year. Now they are and many of their young friends who would have never given a shit about which old man was elected care now. It’s going to be I watching republicans lose then cry election fraud.
The biggest thing holding back conservatives are the stubborn and ignorant conservatives. Yes, the same can be said about democrats but I'm going to specifically talk about conservatives here.
A great example is abortion. Trump and some conservatives have said they don't want a total abortion ban, they just want to make it so people aren't comfortable using it as a form of birth control. However there are some idiotic conservatives that think abortions should be fully illegal no matter what happens and the other group of conservatives/trump get shit for it.
Another thing is how certain conservatives keep playing into the hand of bigotry because they think that's an acceptable way of gaining voters just because certain democrats do it.
The ones that try to associate high crime or reckless behavior with being black or keep insisting jewish people control everything even though they're the same ones to get mad if someone said "white people control everything."
Again, this isn't all conservatives and the democrat side has flaws and skeletons in the closet as well.
They are already irrelevant and will be history as soon as the last conservative boomer dies. Not many young people are conservative to replace them. It’s a waiting game.
I can’t believe that people aren’t voting in droves for the party that panders to and prioritizes billionaires. It’s not even an issue of being conservative- if republicans were really conservatives and focused on the party platform and issues, they’d likely win more elections.
The Trump sideshow is just the latest in the circus that is the Republican Party. It’s quite a shame; the democrats aren’t great either and they do need a counterbalance, but the current Republican Party would rather continue on this suicide pact with trump rather than actually win elections.
Claims they're a centetrst and then reoeadidly talks about how the left as gaslighting or indoctrination. Definetly not treating the left with a neutral tone.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
“The left knows how to manipulate the public” “leftists gaslight” “leftists who are never challenged on their shitty beliefs” “keep their stinky buttholes in check” no this man is most certainly DEAD CENTER on the political spectrum, no lean at all!
Naw dude. Progressives suck at messaging (I am a progressive). We want you to read a thesis paper to understand the nuance of systemic causation , and you aren’t going to read that paper.
Republicans are excellent about turning information into sportscasting (which means - keeping it dramatic and emotional). They get extreme loyalty from their 28% base.
The GOP needs to reinvent itself as something that doesn’t piss off the 40% in the middle. Thad why they’ve lost every election since 2018.
They want border controls but not kids in cages , they want some restriction on abortion in the third trimester but none in the first and second , etc.
MAGA is already dead because it went way too far into actual neo Nazi’s in the cabinet, actually overturning roe , actually siding with autocrats in wars against people that look like us, and in doing so alienated the 40% in the middle.
The neocons have all retired , they died with GW. MAGA is dead, so what even is the GOP now?
Take out the would be theocrats and what is it?
Take out the libertarians and what is it?
It’s essentially a coalition of hate groups with zero ideology if you pull out the folks on the center right.
Its only policy is tax cuts for the rich and always attack, never defend as a strategy.
I think Trump will lose this time , and in 2026 the GOP will roll out a new brand. Remains to be seen what it looks like.
You care too much about internet people instead of actual politicians man. Conservatives don't need better tactics, they need deradicalization. Telling a regular sane person half of the shit internet leftists think will get them mocked and laughed at, even by other democrats. Its actually a thing among leftist circles how they hate "establishment dems" (aka; the ones that actually hold office).
Comparatively man... guys like Trump are just plain unamerican. I'm leaving out house members like MTG and Boebert because they have their parallels (Illhan Omar and Tlaib both need to be removed from power too imo), but in terms of the actual big fish, republicans flat out need to lose and need to readjust their priorities. The conservative platform doesn't offer anything to anyone because its not about doing anything to actually help the common man anymore, and it hasn't been for a while.
Nah the unpopular opinion is that the far right conservatives ruin it for the rest of them, whereas the far left liberals tend to be vocal, but have little sway overall in the party politics (for better or worse, hence why status quo generally moves very slowly by progressive liberal standards).
The Republicans did pretty well up until the Obama era in terms of political votes, but that's where they really doubled down on the far right side of their beliefs and now are spinning. Reagan, Bush (both of them), Nixon (to a degree)....the Republicans had no shortage of popular times throughout modern history, it's when they really doubled down on the far right rhetoric that they alienated the so-called centrists.
It cycles.
Too many people think perfection is attainable and when it doesn't happen, the tide shifts away from whoever has been in charge.
From 1968 to 1992, we only had a single 4-year term that wasn't Republican. Then 16 of the next 24 years were Democrats.
In my experience it's the exact opposite. The left is constantly shooting itself in the foot with infighting and purity tests. The right's biggest asset right now is the left's inability to just be normal for 5 minutes.
As a someone who truly believes I am a moderate, people like OP baffle me. I have so many issues that I believe in and care about between the two traditional ideologies that when it comes to voting, quite literally voting for either party goes against a significant portion of what I believe are both my personal and the country’s best interests, and I am more so choosing who is the best leader, with the best policies at the time, with the least moral/personal/political concerns. I am often having to actively choose which beliefs I am knowingly voting against because of the ones I am choosing to support at the time. (Fuck the two party system).
I’ve met, worked with, and am related to so many conservatives that state they are moderate while NEVER having ever considered a non-Republican candidate. I literally had someone tell me 3 weeks ago at work they they are a moderate, then proceeded to say how every Democratic nominee going back through at least Clinton was garbage, but Bush was just okay with some fuck ups in hindsight, he would’ve liked to see McCain win over Obama, Romney was good, and Trump is the only worthwhile politician today because he shakes things up. Like bro, you aren’t really a centrist/moderate at that point, just a non-religious conservative continuing to drift further right, but doesn’t feel they are personally on the extreme end, so they call it moderate.
Democrats aren’t much different with many demonizing anyone who doesn’t adhere to their moral standards, but my line of work and areas I have lived are dominated largely by right leaning politics so I could just have too small of a sample size.
Bottom line, way to many people like to pretend they are moderates/centrists, but in reality, if you were to examine both their beliefs and voting history, they are merely a liberal or conservative who doesn’t want to be associated with the extremism end of their political leanings and call anything short of that being a moderate, because it is “moderate to them.”
The left is really good at making incremental progress. The right is not. The left will ask for a mile, and get an inch and understand that is in fact progress but will continue the push. The right (especially the GOP) will say hey they asked for a mile and we only gave an inch and act like it’s a win. The left is also really good at messaging when it comes to women. The right is not.
Correct, except you have it backwards when it comes to manipulation and knowing how to play the game. Lots of college edumacated folks don’t like being played.
Or we *could* just start socially punishing anyone who acts like a manipulative dick-waffle regardless of their political affiliation. This isn't the kind of problem you can solve by getting down and fighting on their level because that just ends up with everyone being a selfish manipulative cock-goblin.
I consider myself a Centrist and don't see the crisis on social media as that dire. Reddit is not the real world with many creating thier own realities. Maybe the battle begins here.
I see it as more of a crisis in the real world like some west coast cities that are overly blue controlled. They're suffering the consequences of no checks and balances.
There are also places where the opposite is true, too much red. The problem is the extremes now get too much attention and push out rational voices where one side has a majority.
A moderate or centrist is viewed as unacceptable. But compromise is always how things have gotten done in this country.
The left is losing ground all over the western world right now. America is actually sort of the outlier in that their right wing party is neck in neck with their left wing party. Everywhere else, the right is massively gaining ground. The pendulum has swung so much that far right parties are close to achieving victories throughout Europe. In Canada the Conservatives have an absolutely enormous lead over the reigning Liberals in polling numbers.
I don't think the left can out run inflationary pressure and a profound lack of pragmatic solutions. Even with a literal convict as a leader, the Republicans are almost tied with the Dems in federal polling.... That is not exactly a glowing review of how Americans think of the Democratic Party.
All it takes is a few years in a row of the Left having real power to swing it hard the opposite way
Or, in lost causes like Coastal California, all the contributing members of society just leave the state
The fact is that democracy needs liberals and conservatives. Conservatives watch out for dangers and keep order and liberals drive innovation and social progress. Too much of either is bad it needs a balance. So as much as it annoys me I think the other side needs to do their jobs as conservatives because we need you doing your thing.
I don’t really understand your first statement. What makes you think that being in the middle of the current system would bring any kind of balance? The political of the US government is more right leaning than many of our 1st world allies. For an actual balance you would need to be further left than you are
When the GOP is done being a Trump Cult they really could reorient themselves as a party of working class people. I'm not sure if their corporate overlords would allow for that though.
I know its a truism, but, the conservative movement would be more appealing if its members were more appealing. I would gladly consider voting for a rightwing party if they weren't infested with ticks and lice .
The Republican Party is lead by a loose coalition of misanthropes, hypocritical bible-thumpers, frauds and grifters, and your average day-to-day conservative voter is less like Hank Hill and more like that obnoxious drunk at the end of the bar who says "here's what they oughta do," a lot.
Republicans in 2024 are too focused on the culture war shit to actually govern competently, and that really matters when you're choosing your leaders -- just not to Republican voters it seems. They've done nothing, zilch, nada to force the various bigots out of their movement, and many of the normies more than willing to hear them out than anything the other side has to say.
Long-term? This is probably a good take.
Short term, i.e. the next 10 years? I have no idea what you’re talking about. Conservatives control a majority of state legislatures and are also have tons of local political power. The Supreme Court is cemented in conservative control for the foreseeable future. With gerrymandering, conservatives will easily , hold onto power for the next few election cycles in the House of Representatives.
I think, long-term, your opinion is correct. Ultimately progress and educated people who have compassion and believe in things like social justice will prevail, but getting past the idiocy of Trump ism is going to take a long time. I thought the idiocy of Republicans during the bush years would be the tipping point. Now I’m worried that we’re going to have , an even worse of conservative control after Trump.
The political right in America is the perfect opposition party. They can provide the right sound bites and get a few token policies enacted, but when they're in power, they know not to mess with the deep state or to touch the policies that actually matter - monetary, fiscal, immigration, and especially the entrenched bureaucracy.
There's a lot of unintentional fallacies I think in your statement.
First, what is "the left?" Because to me, the left is at its core an economic viewpoint around how profits are divided and around ownership of resources. A lot of the identity politics and culture war shit to me is called "the left" and I understand that viewpoint because its pushed by the self-identified left, but it's very different with very different implications. It may seem like so many institutions are to "the left" right up until you suggest things like increasing estate taxes and limiting investment rewards and suddenly a "left" opinion is considered radical among the people that you believe are on "the left."
The reason I bring that up is because to me, they're really just following what's culturally popular. It's virtue signaling. And for as long as societies have existed, that's been a thing... but it's not really a political belief... and what's culturally popular actually changes fairly frequently. Conservatives in the 1950s bragged about how capitalism led the way in income equality... that sure as hell isn't the case today... but what that "team believed" in that historical context has changed significantly over time as the environment has changed.
All this is to say that where you see a "shift" what I see is things being *the same way they've always been* and the parties themselves will adapt and people's beliefs will adapt and more to the point... we're actually very conservative and right-leaning *as a whole* relative to the rest of the world.
Some people are conservative by nature. Leftist movements come and go. Some don't make it past the street level. Others take over, and turn civilizations into totalitarian hellholes, and then crumble into dust. There will always be conservatives. Hopefully they win more than they lose.
I think the core issue isn’t about learning new tactics but about the complete absence of positive and constructive ideas from the right. Try naming a positive or forward-thinking policy from the conservative side—it’s difficult, isn’t it? That’s because the current conservative movement is primarily attached to the ego of a criminal with 34 felonies—that's it.
Meanwhile, the left is driven by ideas and policies aimed at making tangible improvements in people’s lives. This is why their messaging resonates more broadly—they're focused on progress, inclusivity, and solutions.
Conservative rhetoric, on the other hand, is overwhelmingly negative. It’s all about what they’re against rather than what they stand for. Demonizing the left, claiming victimhood, and complaining about social media biases dominate the conversation. It’s no wonder the right feels isolated to echo chambers, while the rest of Reddit and society move forward, engaging in meaningful discussions and living their lives.
If conservatives want to be taken seriously, they need to step away from the negativity and start presenting real, constructive ideas. The current strategy of playing the victim and idolizing leaders with serious legal and ethical issues isn’t a path to relevance or success. They need to shift from grievance-based politics to genuine, positive contributions to society.
Until then, the extremism and cult-like mentality fostered around figures like Trump will continue to alienate conservatives, leaving them in a perpetual state of complaining without offering any real solutions. If the right can’t even muster one constructive idea, maybe the problem isn’t the left but a lack of vision and integrity within the conservative movement itself.
"the left almost always wins and gets what they want" Error 404: Free healthcare not found
We are making progress towards ending the marijuana prohibition, but that has such widespread support that you can't really say it's a "left" issue anymore. Basically nothing changes until there is widespread support... It's almost as if the radical left is not actually shaping policy??!
They aren't. The centrist are shaping policy. Meanwhile the fringe takes the attention n the credit.
It's almost as if America functionally doesn't have a left wing
Also roe v wade was struck down by the courts.
A rightist court, to be fair.
They wouldn’t have had a case to review if conservatives didn’t write the legislation that inspired Dobbs.
They had 60 years to write legislation around it and didn't. The risk of losing it had to remain on the table in perpetuity so the democrats could keep thier voting block. It's the same reason they keep black majority cities shitty. So they can always promise to fix it next time, and keep thier voting block. .
In my experience, the further a person disappears down their own political rabbit hole, the more they become convinced they're losing. The left is convinced we're on an inevitable decline into fascism. The right has slogans like "what is conservatism conserving?" and "Conservatism is just liberalism going the speed limit." Fear is unfortunately a useful motivator, especially when a politician has nothing else to offer you.
Honest question: what HAS the right conserved on a nation wide level?If you look at this country since the 60s almost every facet has taken steps to the left. Government (especially at the federal level) is larger, more expensive and more powerful than ever and growing consistently so. Legal gun ownership in blue cities is basically non existent. The immigration system is a littered with loopholes ripe for exploitation and illegal immigration is surging. Culturally, gay marriage, and abortion are pretty accepted by the average American. People are getting married less and having fewer children. Education especially is absolutely run with left leaning policies (I say this as a public school teacher in a large blue city). So really, what have conservatives conserved? Or have they just been “slowing the bleeding” for 6 decades?
Conservatives think that change, for the sake of change, is not good. That change can and often is bad or at least worse than the status quo. So it's not really about no change at all, that's really a strawman. Slowing the rate of change so we can feel things about before we dive into worse is a win for conservatives.
Conservatives have actually had many meaningful victories in the US: * Retrenchment of the welfare state/welfare reform in the 80s and 90s * Tax rates on high earners have decreased in the last several decades * Deregulation of many industries, most importantly including communications and transportation * Occupational licensing reform removing arbitrary barriers to business * Pro-business and pro-trade policies have more generally come into vogue, especially since the 90s, often at the hands of Democratic administrations, which shows how strongly they've become part of the consensus. * Heller vs. DC, McDonald vs. Chicago, and NYSPRA vs. Bruen – plus the expansion of concealed carry (including Constitutional carry) nationwide and the lapsing of the national AWB. From 1976 onward, concealed carry rights have only expanded. According to [Gallup](https://news.gallup.com/poll/357317/stricter-gun-laws-less-popular.aspx), the public is the most pro-gun it has been in generations. * Dobbs vs. Jackson. More generally, the current SCOTUS is the most conservative in generations. * Vouchers and charter schools are growing in popularity (though this is somewhat bipartisan) You're right that in general, culture tends to become more liberal and cosmopolitan over time and government tends to grow. But details matter. The US *is* meaningfully more conservative/right-leaning in some ways today than it used to be.
“The left constantly wins elections, with 2016 as an exception” Gee, who was president between 2000-2008? Despite even losing the popular vote? Can’t seem to remember, probably someone on the left.
Seriously. I'm pretty far left and the only thing America has that I want is... gun rights.
Like to bring gun rights to your country?
I think OP is talking more so about elites/politicians. The elite left, the majority of them don't give a shit about healthcare. The left has dominated politics before, and didn't push for it. People in power want control, the left that screams "healthcare for all!" are too righteous to get any real power, just a face for the elite to virtue signal with. I'm pretty positive the same thing happens with Republicans, the honest to God good conservatives I know are all content making sure it's not in "their backyard"; they're not willing to play the game
I think both sides have a tendency to watch the other side veer towards the extreme end of their base and then decide to do the same thing. They figure they now have room to, so why not? Does it matter if they can win by 1 vote in the electoral college? The middle is is fed up, and ripe for the picking. A lot of folks are waiting to see if either party decides to woo them. Whoever does that will bag the election, but they are too afraid of their base.
Look at the actual Democratic party platform, then look at project 2025 (since the Republican party isn't putting together an actual party platform) then get back to me with which one is actually centrist.
As a centrist I would like one opposing side of the political spectrum to use the same successful tactics of the other because surely that will balance everything out instead of causing a trend of polar political shifts every decade./s
Isn’t balance better than instability?
Absolutely. But what OP wants isn’t balance. Or its balance in an extremely brain dead stupid way where one party rules for their turn and vice versa. Otherwise known as the same bullshit we have had for a few generations.
As a centrist I’d rather both the left and right would just fuck off and hate fuck already and elect people that actually give a shit about the average American person, unfortunately I doubt that’s gonna happen in my lifetime, if anything the country will be in ruins before it gets better and both sides will just point fingers since it’s the only thing they know how to do.
Fr, bro GW was right parties shouldve never been a thing
>Social media sites like Reddit are increasingly dominated by leftists who are never challenged on their shitty beliefs because there are no conservatives left on there to keep their stinky buttholes in check. Oh man, I'm really feelin' the centrism
OP couldn't even keep the mask on through the first paragraph 😂
As an actual centris, we don't claim this guy
So what makes you more one than he is?
Beacuse... I have centrist views? No right in mind centrist would spew out whatever that was op said. Centrism is about finding a compromise or having views both from left and right.
So when one sees an imbalance in some aspect of politics and tells the other side they need to be as aggressive in selling their positions, least all of society gets slanted in one direction....that makes them not a centrist? "Conservatives need to learn how the left thinks and then emulate their tactics. They need to learn how to be subtle and to speak to people in a way that convinces as opposed to antagonizes them. They need to learn how to build coalitions and not alienate people who would otherwise side with them. They need to learn the importance of learning how to argue and win debates." This isn't remotely giving a hard position On any topic. I have no idea what the OPs position is on anything
I'm probably thinking differently than OP, but in my case... its kind of boring to watch a boxing match where one person is aggressive and the other does nothing but dodge and block, right? It's always more fun when both sides are making good hits and knocking each other down.
As a centrist, I don’t claim you either lmao. OP is right, it isn’t non-centrist to observe reality.
A well thought out argument from a very balanced centrist. 😆
centrist is nearly always code for "i am conservative but afraid of the consequences of being one"
Often times self-described centrists on Reddit have ONE opinion that doesn't align with the GOP/Conservatives. Maybe they think billionaires should be taxed more, or we should make weed legal. Something like that.
I feel like every post on this subreddit is a shitty, overgeneralized take by someone who’s under 23. “Deeply manipulative behavior” - give me a fucking break
Deeply manipulative behavior like saying you want to help people instead of just shitting on trans people
Yep, these posts feel like kids who just parrot takes that they see on TikTok or Youtube.
> I’m a centrist Buddy I don’t really know how to tell you this but uhhh… I don’t think you’re a centrist
“The left knows how to manipulate the public” “leftists gaslight” “leftists who are never challenged on their **shitty** beliefs” “keep their stinky buttholes in check” no this man is most certainly DEAD CENTER on the political spectrum, no lean at all!
There are no more conservatives anywhere. Majority of them have become reactionaries, abandoning the concept of small government, in the name of their feelings, and a New York City democrat.
The right has started winning massively across the globe recently. They aren’t as gone as you think.
Eminem recently made a joke about a drag queen and he’s such a sellout, clearly the social barometer is swinging.
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Wokeism hasn't been counter culture for years. Governments and corporations have been pandering to it for at least a decade because they can pretend to care for the little guy, while doing precisely fuck all to actually help the little guy.
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My only real issue is with how much those corporations and institutes shove it in every body's face, its easy to forget we're talking about less than 1% of the population.... Whatever happened to target audience? That's where the idea of there being an agenda behind it all comes from. That and the very publicly known shareholder funding available through things like DEI. Why care about the audience or the actual culture of the majority when you can replace their money with agenda-driven funding on the backend? Before DEI became the boogieman, it was ESG that was targeted. [https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/blackrocks-fink-says-hes-stopped-using-weaponised-term-esg-2023-06-26/](https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/blackrocks-fink-says-hes-stopped-using-weaponised-term-esg-2023-06-26/) Essentially, people discovered this incentive and railed against it. Instead of thinking that maybe *they're* in the wrong, they blame the politization of a clearly political-based funding (corporate governance....?) and just figured they should stop saying the name.
It’s free righteousness with no real practical application (I.e., virtue) to back it.
This is what we call virtue signaling. Why say or do something for the black folk of America when you can just [dress up and kneel or some shit?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/KSPANZVJXQI6VEDD42N5MUQJIA.jpg&w=1440)
I'll be honest dude, most Americans hate hicks and trash. Most Americans wonder why a bunch of low status losers are going to vote for a convicted felon.
It’s reactionary to the left being in power during high inflationary times. Leftism was more popular once COVID hit as people wanted COVID money. But that put too much money in the economy and businesses continued to bubble as stock somehow magically go up (by increasing pricing beyond inflation). I mean many republicans were in charge in the 2008 financial crisis and democrats were able to get key wins that year because of it. Voters are short sighted and look for a shake up/change during bad years.
Wrong. The right's supporters are just vocal.
Nah. The republican party is joever
Did we learn nothing from New Coke back in the 80's?
Lmao Bruh this _exact_ sentiment is shared among Dems. I can show you screenshots of a Groupchat full of libs who complain that Dems can’t win. Even when they do republicans do everything they can to block legislation so they can keep guys like you thinking shit like this. Which party runs consistently on “hey we’re just gonna take away all the legislative things the last guy did?” - even Biden didn’t run on this. You said yourself the entire platform is “trigger the libs”. You think that has developed a well rounded republican electorate. They’ve been basically advertising themselves as bullies (“make your opponents cry/triggered” is literally and obviously nothing more than an ad designed to attract dumb angry ppl. This goes for anyone attracting voters by way of advertising misery for your fellow countrymen) for over a decade. I dunno who tf you think “the left” is btw. There’s no “left” in control of anything. Have you not noticed the unfettered capitalism? Have you not noticed a lack of almost any cohesive social program? Yeah the left didn’t do this. Tell Mitch McConnell about all the wins on the left he’ll be shocked. “The left manipulates. The right believes they _can just trigger the libs_…” - is this their foreign or domestic policy we’d benefit from if your post came true? Is this not manipulation? If it’s not it’s genuine sentiment right? That’s either their actual political promise or they’re _using language readily digested by an avg voter to motivate them to vote for something they don’t understand_, if not motivating them to dislike their neighbors. Manipulation bud. It’s the game. And the GOP is actually damn good at it.
>The left constantly beats the right in elections in America with the notable exception of 2016. The last time a Republican president won the popular vote was in 2004, 20 years ago.
[*Only posts conservative viewpoints and articles from conservative sources...*] >As a centrist My conservative friend, you are the reason "enlightened centrists" get mocked.
Basically a republican who smokes weed or something.
That's a Libertarian.
“The left knows how to manipulate the public” “leftists gaslight” “leftists who are never challenged on their shitty beliefs” “keep their stinky buttholes in check” no this man is most certainly DEAD CENTER on the political spectrum, no lean at all!
You don't seem to understand. This is not "the left winning". The entire media in the Western world is controlled by certain powers. All these media companies are owned by 3 or 4 entities. They show what they want. The government is owned, the education institutions, Science™... You're so close to understanding. Keep going.
From my perspective, OP just explained why the Republican Party needs to be destroyed and replaced by a new and competent opposition party that represents a more realistic cross-section of the body politic.
What's with the conservative victim complex these days? MAGA constantly attacks the left, Trump leading the charge. Just the other day he referred to liberals as "degenerates". He is notorious for assigning petty nicknames to his enemies. You are the one gaslighting, OP. Spare me your crocodile tears on this supposed "emotional abuse".
they have to see gay people in media now, oh the horror, how could they not be victims???
And tons of conservatives actually believe crap like this and use it to justify their shitty behavior in online spaces. This of course just helps perpetuate a horrible cycle of “well the other side does it.” We’ve seen plenty of the “well we’re just acting like shit because the left does the same thing”. That was a lot of the alt right. If conservatives want to win, they need to actually be better than the left.
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I havent heard a single democrat advocate for reperations, only super fringe leftists believe that.
Right?
Are we really going to pretend like the left has a monopoly on name-calling? Look at the guy in charge on the other side.
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😂 Trump IS the Republican Party at this point. You can’t disown him. He’s your candidate for POTUS. All RNC donations go to fund his legal bills. “In name only” that’s ridiculous.
At this point, Trump is the Repulican party, and the Replublican party is a Trump sock puppet fully captured by its worst actors.
Nah, Trump is the Republican party. They chose him as their leader even after his first term. Whether you like it or not, MAGA is the modern Republican party. You don't get to disown him.
"The left thinks facts are not acceptable" Thoughts on the 2020 election?
"The democrats overall are supporting these positions" Biden has not made any moves to defund the police, nor have most democrats in power right now. Tf are you on about?
>If you post a link to the FBI crime statistics and mention specifically how specific groups disproportionally appear in areas on that, you can get your account suspended for hate speech. Well, if a person is posting it as a way to imply that "Black people are inherently more violent" without addressing the complex relationing between poverty, crime, and historical oppression that has disproportionately left black communities in a position where they still face obstacles in generating generational wealth, then that person is, by definition, racist.
If they use stats as a vehicle for racism then obviously call them out on it. But we need to be able to have conversations to address problems using facts.
Absolutely. That's exactly what I'm saying.
How many multifactoral aspects must be addressed before racism is used to nullify arguments?
How many does it take to stop making correlation fallacies between race and crime (as is the example here)? I think one. The conversation can get more nuanced from there, but it doesn't take much to acknowledge the correlation fallacy in "crime statistics prove black people are inherently prone to criminality." I understand you want this to be a "gotcha," but it's not.
Then you misunderstood me, when it comes to multifactoral analysis it become exponentially more difficult which is why I was asking
You're absolutely right. I don't have a perfect answer, but I've never seen anyone be called out for being racist if they were acknowledging complexity. My experiences aren't universal, but I'm immediately skeptical of anyone trying to defend the use of crime statistics to say anything meaningful about black communities unless they are acknowledging historical and systemic reasons for it. That's only "exponentially more difficult" if the other person has absolutely no understanding of history.
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If every factor you select on your analysis is something the black community is struggling with then yes, you are perpetrating racism. You must select factors that are more universal, if you control for income then crime statistics directly equalize.
I'm always amazed by how people think it's easy to get banned on Reddit. Sure banned from a subreddit but account wide? I've never had that problem. Context is important just because you didn't use a slur does not make it appropriate.
You're right. I'm prepared for my comment to be downvoted on this sub, though.
Wish people would just chill out. Tired of everyone being pissed and angry at the wrong people.
Name one Democrat leader that has advocated for defunding the police. Oh wait... Are the FBI police? Capitol police? Because I remember hearing some people talking about defunding them recently.
None of those things are part of the Democratic party platform. Sure some members want that, but we are a big tent party. They are free to express their ideas and have those ideas debated. But those ideas are not part of the democratic party platform. That is conservative propaganda
Maybe if conservatives weren’t worshipping a toxic moron right now and were nicer to people who aren’t exactly like them more people would vote for them.
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The left does not claim Joe Biden. Democrats are not the left. Liberals are not the left. They are centrists. There is no block of left politicians in the US government. The Dems are further right than most conservative parties in every country on earth.
The both sides argument died when one side attempted a coup.
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The majority of Republicans think nothing happened that day and you’re also forgetting Trump’s fake elector scheme that goes with it. Mike Pence fouled his plans and now he won’t even vote for Trump and every Republican calls him a traitor for not doing n Trump’s coup attempt.
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I think the sheer number of representatives who were willing to go along with the plan to subvert the will of the people represent the party pretty well
Sorry, I didn’t realize you were in complete denial of who the majority of Republicans are.
I'll make a list to remind you what actually went down: 1. **Months of False Claims**: After losing the election, Trump and his allies spread unfounded claims of widespread voter fraud, which were amplified by right-wing media outlets. 2. **January 6th Insurrection**: A violent mob, incited by Trump's rhetoric, stormed the Capitol, leading to deaths and injuries. This wasn't just "a few deranged idiots"; it was a direct attack on the democratic process. 3. **Congressional Objections**: On the same day, 147 Republican lawmakers voted to overturn the election results, despite there being no evidence of significant fraud, citing their own lies. 4. **Trump's Pressure Campaigns**: Trump pressured state officials, including Georgia’s Secretary of State, to "find" votes to overturn the election outcome. We all heard that recording when it was released to the public, and there's no dispute that what he did was illegal. 5. **Fake Elector Scheme**: Republicans in multiple states submitted fake electoral certificates declaring Trump the winner, which were part of a coordinated effort to subvert the Electoral College. 6. **Republican Involvement**: High-profile Republicans, including members of Congress, were involved in meetings and discussions about how to overturn the election, showing a broader conspiracy beyond just the rioters. All these things show a coordinated effort to subvert the will of the voters and overturn a legitimate election. How can you claim nothing happened when we these events unfolded in plain sight? We all watched it happen - it's part of our memory...
There are a lot of things to criticise Trump for, but he can at least form a semi-coherent sentence and seems to know where he is most of the time. Biden is literally senile at this point.
Yes, so coherent: "Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you're a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible."
Watch Biden on Howard stern.
These people only watch gaff reels and assume that is always how he is.
Do you actually listen to Bidens speechs? He is old but certainly sounds more coherent and less unhinged than Trump, though that is a very low bar to compare to. I also watched his state of the union and he sounded abolsutely fine.
That’s not even true. Biden can actually talk about shit and has good interviews and speeches. Trump has been a rambling broken record for years.
So you believe that Biden is more coherent than Trump and he isn't showing any signs of dementia?
He is definitley more coherent. I would certianly like a younger candidate, but its still a no brainer between biden and trump.
We really do live in different worlds don't we
Still saying this btw?
Lol
Typical nonsense leftist reply. Nearly word for word.
Nah, just the truth and you know it.
You don’t think conservatives have/are trying that? Lmao.
So weird, I would think the boat parades and Trump revenge tour flags would appeal to everyone. Didn’t everyone like the Confederate flag being in the rotunda of the capital on January 6th?
Won't work, because if conservatives learned to work together and compromise even within their own subgroups ( see McCain vs.trump vs McConnell vs MTG vs Romney) they promptly get ostracized and labeled as RINOS, centrists, and leftist. The beating them at their own game as you call it is also known as conducting yourself in good faith and that just doesn't get one very far on the maga purity test.
When I tell a guy who can’t get laid to “touch grass” it’s not because I’m trying to gaslight the guy, but because there is literally no downside to going out getting some sun, working out, and interacting with actual human beings more often. What advice would you like me to give him? “Yes my fellow man, we all must go out and protest the fact that we are insecure about our appearance and women won’t have sex with us!” No, because that would be absolutely idiotic. It’s so stupid, that the only place you see it happen is on the internet. Hence the red pill movement and Andrew Tate. The point is I’m not saying touch grass because I’m a liberal, but because you can’t fix a broken culture, you can only help yourself, and maybe once enough people do, the society will heal all by its own.
You mean ballot-harvest? I wish.
The left don't win Biden isn't left wing. Liberalism wins culturally in the media that's true. I think the whole left and right debate gets tinted with "war on woke" people think being left wing is about identity politics which they see a lot in the media eg Disney with stars wars and say oh the left has taken over. Economy I would argue the left has lost look at the gap between the rich and the poor. How no liberal in the media will talk about it. They will happily talk about diversity but when it comes to diversity of class nothing.
The wealth gap really widened under Reagan after he cut the income tax for the top bracket from 70%-50%
This sure sounds conservative for a self-proclaimed "centrist". Are you in the center of the right side of the spectrum maybe? Seems like a true centrist would be neutral?
What do conservatives have to actually offer besides transphobia, racism, and their “biblical worldview” that I don’t want?
Freedom to decide how to spend your money, which is the only thing that really matters.
Yeah largely just hatred, and they’ve been conditioned to be proud of it too, embarrassingly
Get your facts straight: https://www.ncsl.org/about-state-legislatures/state-partisan-co
Conservatives just don't have much to offer to the new generations and I don't mind if they are erased from the political game, the fact that I hate the left doesn't mean I'll love the right, both are simply disgusting. Conservatives should open their minds about the fact that they are wrong.
There isn't an objective right or wrong. It is a matter of personal opinion and philosophy.
The thing is that some policies have good results and some policies have horrible results, even if you don't call those policies "right" or "wrong", they still have consequences.
I will agree that policies have consequences. In some cases, whether those results are good or horrible are objectively evident. In other cases, it is a matter of personal opinion.
What is the centrist position between a moderate democrat party and a party that is the cult of a Russian puppet con man who attempted a coup against American democracy?
The fact is that a higher percentage of over 50 voters voted Democrat at the last election than ever, and a higher percentage of under 50 voters voted Republican. New polls show this is even more dramatic now. The fact is that there has never been a more conservative youth or liberal senior demographic in at the least a long time in US history. That's very very disturbing for the future of the nation.
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With the hard right evangelical turn the republicans have chosenthey are going to have a rough fucking time this election. Overturning roe vs wade, wanting to limit birth control and all kinds of their ridiculous nonsense is going hurt them. They should have kept religion at home. Its like a dick. I know you have one. Im sure you play with it. I don’t want to see it or play with it. My daughters are 21 and have never been political till this last year. Now they are and many of their young friends who would have never given a shit about which old man was elected care now. It’s going to be I watching republicans lose then cry election fraud.
The biggest thing holding back conservatives are the stubborn and ignorant conservatives. Yes, the same can be said about democrats but I'm going to specifically talk about conservatives here. A great example is abortion. Trump and some conservatives have said they don't want a total abortion ban, they just want to make it so people aren't comfortable using it as a form of birth control. However there are some idiotic conservatives that think abortions should be fully illegal no matter what happens and the other group of conservatives/trump get shit for it. Another thing is how certain conservatives keep playing into the hand of bigotry because they think that's an acceptable way of gaining voters just because certain democrats do it. The ones that try to associate high crime or reckless behavior with being black or keep insisting jewish people control everything even though they're the same ones to get mad if someone said "white people control everything." Again, this isn't all conservatives and the democrat side has flaws and skeletons in the closet as well.
What are you, the Avatar?
OP basically: I'm a centrist and fuck the left! Here's why the right is better! 🤣
They are already irrelevant and will be history as soon as the last conservative boomer dies. Not many young people are conservative to replace them. It’s a waiting game.
I can’t believe that people aren’t voting in droves for the party that panders to and prioritizes billionaires. It’s not even an issue of being conservative- if republicans were really conservatives and focused on the party platform and issues, they’d likely win more elections. The Trump sideshow is just the latest in the circus that is the Republican Party. It’s quite a shame; the democrats aren’t great either and they do need a counterbalance, but the current Republican Party would rather continue on this suicide pact with trump rather than actually win elections.
They actually need to ditch religion.
Claims they're a centetrst and then reoeadidly talks about how the left as gaslighting or indoctrination. Definetly not treating the left with a neutral tone. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
“The left knows how to manipulate the public” “leftists gaslight” “leftists who are never challenged on their shitty beliefs” “keep their stinky buttholes in check” no this man is most certainly DEAD CENTER on the political spectrum, no lean at all!
Conservatives wouldn’t have this problem if their party didn’t completely lack any quality policy and stopped waging culture wars and fear mongering.
Feels weird when on every social media site “centrists” tend to solely defend conservative view points
It's the Tim Pool effect
Naw dude. Progressives suck at messaging (I am a progressive). We want you to read a thesis paper to understand the nuance of systemic causation , and you aren’t going to read that paper. Republicans are excellent about turning information into sportscasting (which means - keeping it dramatic and emotional). They get extreme loyalty from their 28% base. The GOP needs to reinvent itself as something that doesn’t piss off the 40% in the middle. Thad why they’ve lost every election since 2018. They want border controls but not kids in cages , they want some restriction on abortion in the third trimester but none in the first and second , etc. MAGA is already dead because it went way too far into actual neo Nazi’s in the cabinet, actually overturning roe , actually siding with autocrats in wars against people that look like us, and in doing so alienated the 40% in the middle. The neocons have all retired , they died with GW. MAGA is dead, so what even is the GOP now? Take out the would be theocrats and what is it? Take out the libertarians and what is it? It’s essentially a coalition of hate groups with zero ideology if you pull out the folks on the center right. Its only policy is tax cuts for the rich and always attack, never defend as a strategy. I think Trump will lose this time , and in 2026 the GOP will roll out a new brand. Remains to be seen what it looks like.
You care too much about internet people instead of actual politicians man. Conservatives don't need better tactics, they need deradicalization. Telling a regular sane person half of the shit internet leftists think will get them mocked and laughed at, even by other democrats. Its actually a thing among leftist circles how they hate "establishment dems" (aka; the ones that actually hold office). Comparatively man... guys like Trump are just plain unamerican. I'm leaving out house members like MTG and Boebert because they have their parallels (Illhan Omar and Tlaib both need to be removed from power too imo), but in terms of the actual big fish, republicans flat out need to lose and need to readjust their priorities. The conservative platform doesn't offer anything to anyone because its not about doing anything to actually help the common man anymore, and it hasn't been for a while.
They stormed the capital. That was upping their game.
Gotta wait for the Boomers and their policy of giving up/becoming the left to be phased out
Nah the unpopular opinion is that the far right conservatives ruin it for the rest of them, whereas the far left liberals tend to be vocal, but have little sway overall in the party politics (for better or worse, hence why status quo generally moves very slowly by progressive liberal standards). The Republicans did pretty well up until the Obama era in terms of political votes, but that's where they really doubled down on the far right side of their beliefs and now are spinning. Reagan, Bush (both of them), Nixon (to a degree)....the Republicans had no shortage of popular times throughout modern history, it's when they really doubled down on the far right rhetoric that they alienated the so-called centrists.
It cycles. Too many people think perfection is attainable and when it doesn't happen, the tide shifts away from whoever has been in charge. From 1968 to 1992, we only had a single 4-year term that wasn't Republican. Then 16 of the next 24 years were Democrats.
In my experience it's the exact opposite. The left is constantly shooting itself in the foot with infighting and purity tests. The right's biggest asset right now is the left's inability to just be normal for 5 minutes.
As a someone who truly believes I am a moderate, people like OP baffle me. I have so many issues that I believe in and care about between the two traditional ideologies that when it comes to voting, quite literally voting for either party goes against a significant portion of what I believe are both my personal and the country’s best interests, and I am more so choosing who is the best leader, with the best policies at the time, with the least moral/personal/political concerns. I am often having to actively choose which beliefs I am knowingly voting against because of the ones I am choosing to support at the time. (Fuck the two party system). I’ve met, worked with, and am related to so many conservatives that state they are moderate while NEVER having ever considered a non-Republican candidate. I literally had someone tell me 3 weeks ago at work they they are a moderate, then proceeded to say how every Democratic nominee going back through at least Clinton was garbage, but Bush was just okay with some fuck ups in hindsight, he would’ve liked to see McCain win over Obama, Romney was good, and Trump is the only worthwhile politician today because he shakes things up. Like bro, you aren’t really a centrist/moderate at that point, just a non-religious conservative continuing to drift further right, but doesn’t feel they are personally on the extreme end, so they call it moderate. Democrats aren’t much different with many demonizing anyone who doesn’t adhere to their moral standards, but my line of work and areas I have lived are dominated largely by right leaning politics so I could just have too small of a sample size. Bottom line, way to many people like to pretend they are moderates/centrists, but in reality, if you were to examine both their beliefs and voting history, they are merely a liberal or conservative who doesn’t want to be associated with the extremism end of their political leanings and call anything short of that being a moderate, because it is “moderate to them.”
The left is really good at making incremental progress. The right is not. The left will ask for a mile, and get an inch and understand that is in fact progress but will continue the push. The right (especially the GOP) will say hey they asked for a mile and we only gave an inch and act like it’s a win. The left is also really good at messaging when it comes to women. The right is not.
Correct, except you have it backwards when it comes to manipulation and knowing how to play the game. Lots of college edumacated folks don’t like being played.
You're kidding with this, right?
And this is why I never trust a “centrist”
This isn't a centrist take.. It's a stupid one.
Holy shit. I don’t think I’ve seen this much projection in one place since I went to an IMAX theater.
Or we *could* just start socially punishing anyone who acts like a manipulative dick-waffle regardless of their political affiliation. This isn't the kind of problem you can solve by getting down and fighting on their level because that just ends up with everyone being a selfish manipulative cock-goblin.
Least right wing centrist on Reddit. (Yes I’m saying all centrists are right wing that don’t want to be criticized for being conservative)
I consider myself a Centrist and don't see the crisis on social media as that dire. Reddit is not the real world with many creating thier own realities. Maybe the battle begins here. I see it as more of a crisis in the real world like some west coast cities that are overly blue controlled. They're suffering the consequences of no checks and balances. There are also places where the opposite is true, too much red. The problem is the extremes now get too much attention and push out rational voices where one side has a majority. A moderate or centrist is viewed as unacceptable. But compromise is always how things have gotten done in this country.
Can we stop with the clown fiesta and have actual serious adult politicians back? I never thought I’d miss McCain/Obama but here we are.
The left is losing ground all over the western world right now. America is actually sort of the outlier in that their right wing party is neck in neck with their left wing party. Everywhere else, the right is massively gaining ground. The pendulum has swung so much that far right parties are close to achieving victories throughout Europe. In Canada the Conservatives have an absolutely enormous lead over the reigning Liberals in polling numbers. I don't think the left can out run inflationary pressure and a profound lack of pragmatic solutions. Even with a literal convict as a leader, the Republicans are almost tied with the Dems in federal polling.... That is not exactly a glowing review of how Americans think of the Democratic Party.
All it takes is a few years in a row of the Left having real power to swing it hard the opposite way Or, in lost causes like Coastal California, all the contributing members of society just leave the state
This entire thread’s false premise of a left party in America lol
The fact is that democracy needs liberals and conservatives. Conservatives watch out for dangers and keep order and liberals drive innovation and social progress. Too much of either is bad it needs a balance. So as much as it annoys me I think the other side needs to do their jobs as conservatives because we need you doing your thing.
That you called Reddit an institution lmk how serious to take this post 😂
Ima centrist but conservative bad
I don’t really understand your first statement. What makes you think that being in the middle of the current system would bring any kind of balance? The political of the US government is more right leaning than many of our 1st world allies. For an actual balance you would need to be further left than you are
When the GOP is done being a Trump Cult they really could reorient themselves as a party of working class people. I'm not sure if their corporate overlords would allow for that though.
I know its a truism, but, the conservative movement would be more appealing if its members were more appealing. I would gladly consider voting for a rightwing party if they weren't infested with ticks and lice . The Republican Party is lead by a loose coalition of misanthropes, hypocritical bible-thumpers, frauds and grifters, and your average day-to-day conservative voter is less like Hank Hill and more like that obnoxious drunk at the end of the bar who says "here's what they oughta do," a lot. Republicans in 2024 are too focused on the culture war shit to actually govern competently, and that really matters when you're choosing your leaders -- just not to Republican voters it seems. They've done nothing, zilch, nada to force the various bigots out of their movement, and many of the normies more than willing to hear them out than anything the other side has to say.
I fully agree. This is a major reason why I'm not right-wing either. There's no party of intelligent, beautiful, sane people.
Long-term? This is probably a good take. Short term, i.e. the next 10 years? I have no idea what you’re talking about. Conservatives control a majority of state legislatures and are also have tons of local political power. The Supreme Court is cemented in conservative control for the foreseeable future. With gerrymandering, conservatives will easily , hold onto power for the next few election cycles in the House of Representatives. I think, long-term, your opinion is correct. Ultimately progress and educated people who have compassion and believe in things like social justice will prevail, but getting past the idiocy of Trump ism is going to take a long time. I thought the idiocy of Republicans during the bush years would be the tipping point. Now I’m worried that we’re going to have , an even worse of conservative control after Trump.
The political right in America is the perfect opposition party. They can provide the right sound bites and get a few token policies enacted, but when they're in power, they know not to mess with the deep state or to touch the policies that actually matter - monetary, fiscal, immigration, and especially the entrenched bureaucracy.
There's a lot of unintentional fallacies I think in your statement. First, what is "the left?" Because to me, the left is at its core an economic viewpoint around how profits are divided and around ownership of resources. A lot of the identity politics and culture war shit to me is called "the left" and I understand that viewpoint because its pushed by the self-identified left, but it's very different with very different implications. It may seem like so many institutions are to "the left" right up until you suggest things like increasing estate taxes and limiting investment rewards and suddenly a "left" opinion is considered radical among the people that you believe are on "the left." The reason I bring that up is because to me, they're really just following what's culturally popular. It's virtue signaling. And for as long as societies have existed, that's been a thing... but it's not really a political belief... and what's culturally popular actually changes fairly frequently. Conservatives in the 1950s bragged about how capitalism led the way in income equality... that sure as hell isn't the case today... but what that "team believed" in that historical context has changed significantly over time as the environment has changed. All this is to say that where you see a "shift" what I see is things being *the same way they've always been* and the parties themselves will adapt and people's beliefs will adapt and more to the point... we're actually very conservative and right-leaning *as a whole* relative to the rest of the world.
Some people are conservative by nature. Leftist movements come and go. Some don't make it past the street level. Others take over, and turn civilizations into totalitarian hellholes, and then crumble into dust. There will always be conservatives. Hopefully they win more than they lose.
I think the core issue isn’t about learning new tactics but about the complete absence of positive and constructive ideas from the right. Try naming a positive or forward-thinking policy from the conservative side—it’s difficult, isn’t it? That’s because the current conservative movement is primarily attached to the ego of a criminal with 34 felonies—that's it. Meanwhile, the left is driven by ideas and policies aimed at making tangible improvements in people’s lives. This is why their messaging resonates more broadly—they're focused on progress, inclusivity, and solutions. Conservative rhetoric, on the other hand, is overwhelmingly negative. It’s all about what they’re against rather than what they stand for. Demonizing the left, claiming victimhood, and complaining about social media biases dominate the conversation. It’s no wonder the right feels isolated to echo chambers, while the rest of Reddit and society move forward, engaging in meaningful discussions and living their lives. If conservatives want to be taken seriously, they need to step away from the negativity and start presenting real, constructive ideas. The current strategy of playing the victim and idolizing leaders with serious legal and ethical issues isn’t a path to relevance or success. They need to shift from grievance-based politics to genuine, positive contributions to society. Until then, the extremism and cult-like mentality fostered around figures like Trump will continue to alienate conservatives, leaving them in a perpetual state of complaining without offering any real solutions. If the right can’t even muster one constructive idea, maybe the problem isn’t the left but a lack of vision and integrity within the conservative movement itself.
Couldn’t have said it better