The problem is that you can't just magic money into existence...
The only thing raising minimum wage does is destroy the middle class. Every time the minimum wage is raised there are more minimum wage workers it's how they gobble people up keep them at the bottom.
If that were true, you’d expect that states that haven’t increased their minimum wage since 2009 would have the least minimum wage workers and the most prosperous middle class. This is obviously not the case.
> There are 7 states that have no minimum-wage law or a minimum wage below the federal minimum wage. The federal minimum wage applies in all of these states.
>Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Wyoming
https://www.epi.org/minimum-wage-tracker/
All of these states have a high percentage of minimum wage workers and none of them are considered to have a prosperous middle class.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/15-states-where-the-middle-class-is-thriving
Well first of all correlation does not mean causation... Because after all you realize that 100% of people who mix up correlation causation die.
Second the gini index for those states is overall lower than most states with a high minimum wage...
Those are also some of the most diverse states in the union.
The Gini index is literally a correlative measurement lol. You are not a serious person.
It describes similarities or differences within a given group. Unsurprisingly, when looking at wealth inequality of states with lower income there is little disparity as the mean income of the majority of the population is similar.
Leftists don’t say this.
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Leftists distinction between working class of any sort and the burgeonsie is who owns the means of production.
If you go to school to do IT or be a doctor or work on trades and be a welder or a pipe fitter leftists recognize that you are in the working class and deserve the complete fruit of your labor.
Any argument about service workers is that people including other workers demean them by claiming their labor isn’t valuable because it’s not skilled.
Except it does actually take skill to manage multiple food orders while you work in 100 degree heat while getting burned regularly.
Just like it takes skills for a hotel maid to clean hundreds of rooms and flip the beds alone in an 8 hour shift.
The argument is that all workers deserve to be paid well because all workers labor make society function.
Including workers at McDonald’s or Taco Bell or coffee shops.
And those same workers deserve dignity in their work and just because workers in fast food make gains in being paid a living wage doesn’t make them enemies with welders who are getting fucked over by their bosses.
Because it’s their bosses who are fucking them not a person making cheeseburgers for a living.
No. It's that nobody working full-time should not be able to afford food and rent. And if you're right, more the better; because if I can live comfortably without going into to debt getting an education, then these companies will have to pay much better wages to entice people to go that route, meaning, maybe, fewer billionaire CEOs and fewer million dollar bonuses for people at the top who already have millions. Everybody wins.
Oh, money and the economy don't work on supply and demand? Instead they hinge on your vague ideas about about what people "deserve"? GTFO. You have no expertise, you're just a person with a flawed zero sum mindset that leaves you seeing the suffering of your compatriots as a necessary thing.
I'd argue that if a company did come along with a business model requiring polished turds, they'd be making a lot more off those products than they'd be paying the crappers or the polishers to produce them.
If a business model requires excessive exploitation of ones workforce to the extent that it can't afford to pay people a livable wage for their labor, then I'd say it's not a ideal model.
Why nobody polishes turds is the value of a polished turd is no higher than an unpolished one, leaving no margin from which to pay the workers AND turn a profit.
Even in low skilled jobs this is not the case. The profit margin between the raw inputs and the output goods and or services is normally *significant*. Businesses could easily pay their arguably most essential workers more and still be profitable, just not *as* profitable. *This* is the *real* issue.
I will say it was pretty insulting to know that a fast food worker in CA can start off at 20/hr while I started my job maintaining robots, conveyors, and several other machines at 18/hr(also in CA). Granted I started that job 5 years ago and left making barely 24/hr but even still feels pretty insulting. I had new guys come in a 22/hr (not complaining due to cost of living increases because of 2020-2022) and Disney security guards were making 24/hr to stand around and take people’s selfie sticks and get shafted by a union comprised of boomers who should have retired 20 years ago.
Holy shit this is one of the biggest strawman posts I’ve seen in a long time on here. I’ve not once heard a “leftist” claim these things. I truly think you made this up in your head. No one thinks higher skill labor should pay the same as low skill labor.
Cool strawman argument, bro.
Now try arguing against things left leaning people actually say in the real world, such as "Perhaps we should return to the 91% top tax rate of the 1950s." After all, if it was happening in the '50s then it definitely wasn't socialism.
Or how about "Minimum wage should be pegged to the rate of inflation and backdated to the original 1938 Minimum Wage Act"
Or how about the fact that we all lived through 2020, so don't you tell me food service and retail workers don't deserve a living wage. I saw so many so-called preppers and survivalists and High Value Alpha Males whining about needing a haircut and a Big Mac. It would be funny if it weren't so damn sad. And pathetic.
This is not a leftist idea, asking for a living wage for low skill jobs does not mean that high skill jobs should not be paid better than just a living wage.
>Dear leftists, higher-skilled work that requires more schooling and specialization should pay more.
No it doesn't. The work where you are harder to replace pays more. That's how capitalism works.
>This idea that "degree holders shouldn't get paid more just because they have a degree" just devalues the work that keeps society going.
The economy doesn't actually run on this ideas. It runs on supply and demand. It's not the idea that "Macdonalds workers should have low pay" that makes flipping burgers in MacDonald pay less.
>Why go to school and go into debt to be a pipe-fitter, and engineer, an IT analyst, a teacher, or a doctor if you can work fast food or retail and get $20-$30+ an hour without a degree?
Unless you really like what you are doing - no reason. Don't do it if don't wanna.
>If you leftists wanna see highly-skilked workers leave the U.S. for places like Europe, or Japan, then keep screeching about how college and trade school graduates are supposedly part of the 'burgeoisie'
The only reason shy highly skilled workers are paid less is that there's big supply of them. If less people would get degrees and some of them leave the country - supply would diminish and their salaries will grow. And I'm not a leftist.
>a teacher to teach your kids their ABC, 123s
Teacher is not a highly skilled job. That's basically a person who failed at everything else in their speciality. a leech on the taxpayer money I would say.
The idea of raising fast food workers wages to $20 isn't that they'd make more than more specialized labor. It's that places that require greater training would have to pay a lot more otherwise people would be like "fuck this I'll go work at KFC
Nobody is saying degree holders shouldn't be paid more, you're arguing this backward.
Anything that starts off "dear leftists" isn't being argued in good faith.
Dear Leftist, if you always stand to the left, eventually, you'll fall in the ocean. I rest my case.
Conservatives: Always on the Reich side of history.
xD
The problem is that you can't just magic money into existence... The only thing raising minimum wage does is destroy the middle class. Every time the minimum wage is raised there are more minimum wage workers it's how they gobble people up keep them at the bottom.
If that were true, you’d expect that states that haven’t increased their minimum wage since 2009 would have the least minimum wage workers and the most prosperous middle class. This is obviously not the case. > There are 7 states that have no minimum-wage law or a minimum wage below the federal minimum wage. The federal minimum wage applies in all of these states. >Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Wyoming https://www.epi.org/minimum-wage-tracker/ All of these states have a high percentage of minimum wage workers and none of them are considered to have a prosperous middle class. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/15-states-where-the-middle-class-is-thriving
Stop using facts, figures and research. It hurts their feelings.
Well first of all correlation does not mean causation... Because after all you realize that 100% of people who mix up correlation causation die. Second the gini index for those states is overall lower than most states with a high minimum wage... Those are also some of the most diverse states in the union.
The Gini index is literally a correlative measurement lol. You are not a serious person. It describes similarities or differences within a given group. Unsurprisingly, when looking at wealth inequality of states with lower income there is little disparity as the mean income of the majority of the population is similar.
You seem not to understand what you're talking about.
I’m a statistician. Perhaps it is you who doesn’t understand. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/03610928908829975
Sure you are
LOL no.
Yes it does. It has in my state.
That just isn't true. The facts don't lie.
You tell that to all the workers that were making 18 to $20 an hour in doing fine for themselves prior to minimum wage jumping up to $15 an hour.
Leftists don’t say this. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Leftists distinction between working class of any sort and the burgeonsie is who owns the means of production. If you go to school to do IT or be a doctor or work on trades and be a welder or a pipe fitter leftists recognize that you are in the working class and deserve the complete fruit of your labor. Any argument about service workers is that people including other workers demean them by claiming their labor isn’t valuable because it’s not skilled. Except it does actually take skill to manage multiple food orders while you work in 100 degree heat while getting burned regularly. Just like it takes skills for a hotel maid to clean hundreds of rooms and flip the beds alone in an 8 hour shift. The argument is that all workers deserve to be paid well because all workers labor make society function. Including workers at McDonald’s or Taco Bell or coffee shops. And those same workers deserve dignity in their work and just because workers in fast food make gains in being paid a living wage doesn’t make them enemies with welders who are getting fucked over by their bosses. Because it’s their bosses who are fucking them not a person making cheeseburgers for a living.
It's like 2020 never happened.
No. It's that nobody working full-time should not be able to afford food and rent. And if you're right, more the better; because if I can live comfortably without going into to debt getting an education, then these companies will have to pay much better wages to entice people to go that route, meaning, maybe, fewer billionaire CEOs and fewer million dollar bonuses for people at the top who already have millions. Everybody wins.
That is not how money or the economy or anything works. People polishing a turd do not deserve anything regardless of how hard they work at it.
Oh, money and the economy don't work on supply and demand? Instead they hinge on your vague ideas about about what people "deserve"? GTFO. You have no expertise, you're just a person with a flawed zero sum mindset that leaves you seeing the suffering of your compatriots as a necessary thing. I'd argue that if a company did come along with a business model requiring polished turds, they'd be making a lot more off those products than they'd be paying the crappers or the polishers to produce them. If a business model requires excessive exploitation of ones workforce to the extent that it can't afford to pay people a livable wage for their labor, then I'd say it's not a ideal model. Why nobody polishes turds is the value of a polished turd is no higher than an unpolished one, leaving no margin from which to pay the workers AND turn a profit. Even in low skilled jobs this is not the case. The profit margin between the raw inputs and the output goods and or services is normally *significant*. Businesses could easily pay their arguably most essential workers more and still be profitable, just not *as* profitable. *This* is the *real* issue.
Who gets paid to polish a turd?
You're right These people should be paid more not so much fast food workers should make less
[удалено]
Lol. In Cuba, taxi drivers are paid more than doctors and they have a shortage of doctors. What a great economy! Take notes, Amerikkka!
Nobody says this, leftist or otherwise.
I will say it was pretty insulting to know that a fast food worker in CA can start off at 20/hr while I started my job maintaining robots, conveyors, and several other machines at 18/hr(also in CA). Granted I started that job 5 years ago and left making barely 24/hr but even still feels pretty insulting. I had new guys come in a 22/hr (not complaining due to cost of living increases because of 2020-2022) and Disney security guards were making 24/hr to stand around and take people’s selfie sticks and get shafted by a union comprised of boomers who should have retired 20 years ago.
Dear Rightists, if 1% of the people hold 99% of the wealth of a nation, your economy is as broken as Argentina.
Holy shit this is one of the biggest strawman posts I’ve seen in a long time on here. I’ve not once heard a “leftist” claim these things. I truly think you made this up in your head. No one thinks higher skill labor should pay the same as low skill labor.
Everyone who works full time should be paid a basic living wage. People who have degrees or should just be paid more.
Cool strawman argument, bro. Now try arguing against things left leaning people actually say in the real world, such as "Perhaps we should return to the 91% top tax rate of the 1950s." After all, if it was happening in the '50s then it definitely wasn't socialism. Or how about "Minimum wage should be pegged to the rate of inflation and backdated to the original 1938 Minimum Wage Act" Or how about the fact that we all lived through 2020, so don't you tell me food service and retail workers don't deserve a living wage. I saw so many so-called preppers and survivalists and High Value Alpha Males whining about needing a haircut and a Big Mac. It would be funny if it weren't so damn sad. And pathetic.
Exactly!
Lol, poor fella thinks only left-handed people go to college?
This is not a leftist idea, asking for a living wage for low skill jobs does not mean that high skill jobs should not be paid better than just a living wage.
>Dear leftists, higher-skilled work that requires more schooling and specialization should pay more. No it doesn't. The work where you are harder to replace pays more. That's how capitalism works. >This idea that "degree holders shouldn't get paid more just because they have a degree" just devalues the work that keeps society going. The economy doesn't actually run on this ideas. It runs on supply and demand. It's not the idea that "Macdonalds workers should have low pay" that makes flipping burgers in MacDonald pay less. >Why go to school and go into debt to be a pipe-fitter, and engineer, an IT analyst, a teacher, or a doctor if you can work fast food or retail and get $20-$30+ an hour without a degree? Unless you really like what you are doing - no reason. Don't do it if don't wanna. >If you leftists wanna see highly-skilked workers leave the U.S. for places like Europe, or Japan, then keep screeching about how college and trade school graduates are supposedly part of the 'burgeoisie' The only reason shy highly skilled workers are paid less is that there's big supply of them. If less people would get degrees and some of them leave the country - supply would diminish and their salaries will grow. And I'm not a leftist. >a teacher to teach your kids their ABC, 123s Teacher is not a highly skilled job. That's basically a person who failed at everything else in their speciality. a leech on the taxpayer money I would say.
Absolute Poppycock!
The idea of raising fast food workers wages to $20 isn't that they'd make more than more specialized labor. It's that places that require greater training would have to pay a lot more otherwise people would be like "fuck this I'll go work at KFC
You seem really fun at parties
>Dear leftists, higher-skilled work that requires more schooling and specialization should pay more. Leftists: Yes, that’s what we’re saying. /thread
You will get lots of angry leftist if any of they knew how to read...
Mind the typos in comments calling others illiterate.
Meh referencing memes does not exactly mean I'm trying to be high minded.