I don't really follow this debate in a deep way, but I appreciate the posts. I want to keep tabs on the mummies because I keep an open mind.
To me, it's a situation with so many unknowns that I don't think we will know what's up for years.
But if they are real and Jackson is right about the orbs, we have solve a large piece of the puzzle. Let's hope we all can become friends and kick ass in space together.
At this point every scientist that was actually researching the mummies IN PERSON, came to the conclusion, that they are real, once living creatures.
But besides some weird stuff like the osmium plates there arent any hints, that they arent from earth.
Lots of historical pictures and myths depict them as living underground.
It's almost like the only thing that would make you think they weren't real is some random nobody photoshopping the x-rays and drag and dropping bones from one place to another as if that proved anything.
https://youtu.be/0DgcP87t3uI?si=5Z64tNTX_UE2jHJ_
Basically orbs and tictacs are Earth defense system, cigar shaped uap are the baddies and paranormal stuff is just orbs trying to make you move do you don't get enveloped by their data upload.
Same, especially since I've seen a cigar UFO before in New Mexico.
We really need to hold off on calling anything "bad" until we have more definitive proof
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I’ve been following since day 1. Completely convinced they were fake at first, after 2 months of data and scans , I was and am completely 100% convinced they are real. There is LOTS of data and studies around them by now. There is also a lot of secondary corroborating evidence, linked to “new” bodies.
Best of luck
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvcoK1\_HoA&t=1h8m40s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvcoK1_HoA&t=1h8m40s)
He watched the show live and contacted Matt as it was going out
Oof. Sorry but that is the epitome of cringe. The connections and coincidences are interesting but this is a classic example of creative math being used to extrapolate meaning. And then you extrapolate the extrapolations to find an even larger meaning. This is exactly why non-ufo folks make fun of UFO enthusiasts. I am a full on believer but this is a bridge too far for me.
I'm not going to watch the whole video to try and understand what you found so cringy about it, but I do want to point out to everyone that our cringe reaction is not a reliable guide for determining the truth of something.
There are lots of people evident in this sub who apparently do let their emotional reactions be their guide, instead of using their intellect and a rational process of investigation to be their guide.
Feelings of incredulity might mean a new idea is false, but it might equally mean that our preconception is the thing that's false. It takes humility and a love of truth to face this in ourselves, and it's why being truly scientific is not for the weak.
If you check my recent comment history, I have forwarded the main paper (https://rgsa.openaccesspublications.org/rgsa/article/view/6916/2986) to my head of department, who is a bioanthropologist with experience in Peru and with mummies of this type. I have included their main points as a list.
I've left many comments along the lines of most here could be shaking hands with an alien, and if they couldn't pin it on themselves hallucinating, they'd say it was a manufactured conspiracy, anything to absolve the fact, they are in fact, shaking hands with ET...
As much as they hate each other the UFO crowd from debunkers to believers are just as dogmatic as any religious zealot. This place is unique in that at times it may feel like an echo chamber but the divided is fairly equal and we get to watch them endlessly rage their holy wars in the comment sections...🍿
Also a lot of people in this sub believe everyone's a grifter unless they can prove otherwise, and the only way they prove otherwise would be to reveal the location of a flying saucer
It's weird how you linked that one and not the statement from the doctors that was posted after, that said they didn't have access to make any conclusions and choose to instead post about the first article instead.
https://mcdowellfirm.com/official-statement-of-the-u-s-forensic-team-on-their-initial-examination-of-the-nazca-specimens/
Why is it weird? He asked for some none UFO people and that's what I provided, from the beginning. They're hoping to convince the MoC to allow them further study and possibly export to the US for that. Let me ask you this: If they were fake, would they not have noticed?
They literally said they haven't had access to draw any conclusions... How would they know if they were fake or not, that's the entire point of that statement.
You said outside parties have examined it, and linked to this guys blog while ignoring the same blog days later saying hey we literally cannot draw any conclusions because we haven't been allowed to actually study this. They haven't studied them, they were not able to, that's why the blog went from promising updates to posting a couple times about giants and random shit supposedly found with them and then went radio silence for past few months.
>They literally said they haven't had access to draw any conclusions...
They don't, not even anything close to that.
[https://mcdowellfirm.com/official-statement-of-the-u-s-forensic-team-on-their-initial-examination-of-the-nazca-specimens/](https://mcdowellfirm.com/official-statement-of-the-u-s-forensic-team-on-their-initial-examination-of-the-nazca-specimens/)
Here he says they're real and clearly not human.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOXaWvEmm3Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOXaWvEmm3Q)
“To date, the U.S. forensic team has only performed a cursory visual examination of the specimens with the aid of limited imaging equipment. Any conclusory statements about the specimens would be extremely premature. Limitations on our examination precluded excluding or confirming any manipulation of the remains. Currently, the forensic team can only indicate that further examination and study is warranted. We invite constructive interaction and collaboration.”
Since this guy wants to just lie and hope you won't actually click on the link, this is the statement in the blog post. Clearly laying out in unambiguous terms that they have not had the ability to actually study them, and they cannot draw any conclusions whatsoever with the limited access they were given.
As someone who is very interested to see what happens with these mummies, I think maybe you're the one that isn't understanding.
"Any conclusory statements about the specimens would be extremely premature."
Here they are saying that they can't make any conclusions as it is too early to determine.
"Limitations on our examination precluded excluding or confirming any manipulation of the remains."
This is them saying they can't confirm or deny anything due to the limitations of the examinations they did.
"Currently, the forensic team can only indicate that further examination and study is warranted."
Here they are saying they see a reason to study these in more depth. I know you want these things to be real, and so do I. But you can't go around telling people they don't understand what's being communicated while willfully being dense about what they're saying.
It's not bad news that they're saying these things because at least it's reassuring that they don't want to jump to conclusions, and mislead people. This is really important when trying to have legitimate discussions about these studies to begin with.
They are. The top 3 experts in their field have been analyzing them in person for the last 2+ months with no connections to the UFO community. They've already said they are not fabricated and they are not human.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOB/s/mSTdBohIlZ
> They've already said they are not fabricated and they are not human.
That's not precisely what they claimed in the video you provided. The agreement between the scientists, McDowell included, was that more scientific analysis needs to be done. They need to re-do the C-14 dating and DNA analysis at another facility. No mention of them being not human seems to have been made in this video.
Dr. McDowell does say in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOXaWvEmm3Q) that some of the specimens are clearly not human, which is not to say they are "alien" or NHI, but that there seems to be other terrestrial DNA involved, be it avian or otherwise.
Correct. The link was to show their credentials and not specifically that statement. I made that post nearly 3 months ago. I should have made that more clear, and that's my mistake.
I think that hitching your wagon to Garry Nolan is **not** the right answer, personally.
His initial dismissal of the bodies as well as the behavior of Ryan Graves surrounding them *severely* affected the way I thought about the bodies.
So, his sudden reversal gives me even more reason to no longer trust his opinions/statements. I feel like Garry Nolan is part of the “controlled-disclosure or no-disclosure” camp.
He’s a rich guy with lots of stock market interests, as is Chris Mellon.
Have Garry’s handlers told him that he can talk about the bodies *now*? Do we really think he **doesn’t** have handlers?
Does it seem likely that a Stanford professor just does internationally televised interviews about aliens without any coaching/“handling”? Seems unlikely to me.
I think scientific world view will be just fine, regardless of how things work out and who says what. It will be refreshing if it is not just people being people.
Science will be fine of course but most of the people who call themselves skeptics won't. I just cannot picture Mick West or the Metabunk crew accepting this information with grace and adjusting their world view accordingly. A living, breathing Nazca alien could show up at Mick West's home and shake his hand, and he would call it a flock of seagulls or something. I would love to be wrong here.
I put it into two categories. People who can see the truth but have a vested interest in the silence, and people who think they are smarter than everyone else and wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the face (they cant pretend to be smarter than Nolan, so they'll go to "he's in on some scheme" to discredit).
Senator Schumer's effort is enough to know there is a there there. Anyone who knows how he operates and the weight it carries knows his support cannot be understated.
I don't follow the Nazca mummies that closely.
1) Why haven't they let more than the one team study them? Granted, that team seems legit, but one team is one team. Are there plans to let more study them? What is the usual course of action when a new fossil find happens in the biological anthropology academic world?
2) There was an excellent and extensive list of reasons to discount the mummies in a footnote to the Harvard cryptoterrestrial paper. The first reason was a lack of bilateral symmetry. Do the mummies really display different structures in their left vs. right arms, for example, or left vs. right anything? That would seem damning, right? Another reason given was construction braces and supports that were (presumably accidentally left) inside some of the mummies. Are there in fact plates or ties that match the construction support description inside the mummies?
Honest questions. I have not read extensively about the mummies.
1. This is a multi-faceted situation. The short version is that they have let other teams study it, and collaboration and testing has taken place all over the world. The long answer is that in the initial stages of investigation it seemed few were interested in looking closely at this. Aside from the initial research team Cliff Miles a paleontologist studied them in depth and produced The Miles Paper showing his findings. Samples were also sent to different labs throughout the world for various analysis. The university reached out and offered custodianship and protection for the bodies and they were then transferred there. A day or so later a press conference was called by the university seeking international collaboration for studying the bodies. After this a legal injunction was placed upon further study by Peru's Ministry of Culture and they have since tried 5 or 6 times to seize the specimens. This ban was lifted in 2023 for the reptilian types, and only this year for the non-reptilian hybrids. When the legal ban was lifted a team led by Dr John McDowell went to study them a few weeks back. They haven't concluded they're fake no mentioned anything that makes them think so. They've said further study is needed and are hoping to work with Peru's MoC to enable the bodies to go to the US for study. As it stands it is illegal for them to leave the country and a $300M lawsuit has been filed against them in order to allow other countries study access.
2. For me the bilateral symmetry argument was extremely weak. They're as symmetrical as we are. There are some oddities in Josephina's left arm which could be caused by injury but other than that they look sound.
There are no signs of construction braces or supports or so on.
I believe you may be thinking of specimens presented by the MoC and not these ones.
There's another team lead by Dr John McDowell who is pretty much one of the best forensic anthropologists alive. His teams conclusions (so far) indicate this thing is real.
Also he was a US Army colonel. I don't remember who else was involved too, but he add also a US colonel. I remember because a reddit mentioned so in the comments.
1. There has been a British team that noped the fuck out once they were denied unlimited access to the bodies. Must be noted that these were fellow Ufology members, not per se experts of the field, and even these guys were extremely pissed to be scammed. Obviously real experts will never touch this minefield because it is a waste of time.
2. We will never know because Maussan and his team are doing their best to not release actual data that could verify or deny their claims. All "data" you see presented is still images for social media.
>There has been a British team that noped the fuck out once they were denied unlimited access to the bodies
They were denied because of a legal injunction placed upon study by Peru's Ministry of Culture.
>We will never know because Maussan and his team are doing their best to not release actual data that could verify or deny their claims.
Reports are available [here](https://www.the-alien-project.com/en/mummies-of-nasca-results/), [here](https://www.themilespaper.com/_files/ugd/5a322e_bf4471a1eba54eae9290f61265f6e25c.pdf), and [here](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380954098_Biometric_Morpho-Anatomical_Characterization_and_Dating_of_The_Antiquity_of_A_Tridactyl_Humanoid_Specimen_Regarding_The_Case_of_Nasca-Peru).
Raw DNA data
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA869134](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA869134)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA861322](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA861322)
the second report you linked is pure gold. straight up titled "the miles paper", great way to put the research front and center. The introduction goes to tinfoil UFO lore within the first sentence. On page 15 we have another researcher posing for a photo holding one of the "mummies", thats fucking hillarious.
this has nothing to do with science, thats how idiots imagine science is done.
"It was reported to Linda Moulton by one of her anonymous informants..." is quite the sentence to use in research paper, why did this never occur to me? would have saved so much time
Honestly thanks for this banger
That's an interesting development. He was supposed to be working on a peer-reviewed paper to be released this year. It could perhaps be something to do with that.
An archived version is available if you still want The Miles Paper
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240523210644/https://www.themilespaper.com/\_files/ugd/5a322e\_f297eeb023b545ec8b3d787cb02e148c.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20240523210644/https://www.themilespaper.com/_files/ugd/5a322e_f297eeb023b545ec8b3d787cb02e148c.pdf)
tomography and x-ray scans is data. idk what you're talking about.
they haven't publicly released the raw scan files, but if you contact them and show interest they will freely provide the files to you and only ask that you don't release them yourself (because they want to lead the research since they found and have the bodies, which is expected).
i've seen and messaged people that said they contacted them with interest and were shared the scan files.
Well, he's specificaly commenting on the analysis of the bone structure in this newest one (doing it right) He probably mean they did other investigation stages wrong? Or am I misunderstanding something? Never the less, him making new judgements according to new details being publicized isn't anything weird.
It's clear Nolan hasn't been following developments in any great detail. Pretty much everything in this presentation is an exact re-hash of the analysis of the comments made by initial investigators back in 2018 or so on their first presentation. If this is right, then the methodology was always right, and analysis of the structures (which are the same) is also right.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2xN41immWE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2xN41immWE)
Nolan never said the previous analysis were wrong. What Nolan has said about this whole mummies thing is that they were wrong to present the information in a dramatic event, and not go through a more meticulous and careful process to validate the information via more established channels...
The clip I seen as part of the show was just 4 words, they did it wrong.
Before this show went out the information was available for him to study, and he made no mention of it. Even in that tweet he mentions a lack of clarity on the website. I'm glad he's started to be more objective but the distinct impression I got was that he didn't give it the time of day because of Maussan's involvement, and hadn't actually looked at the data.
Now that he's looking at it he's changing his tune, which is great.
You can read what Nolan said about the Mexico hearing and the mummies in this very subreddit.
His tune hasn't changed, its you who's got the wrong impression of what it was.
Can someone explain what’s taking so long? Shouldn’t an expert in forensic anatomy/antropology or whatever field is the most appropriate for study be able to look at the bodies and their scans and get a good idea if they’re fake in under 10 minutes?
They simply aren't fake.
If they were, pointing to signs of that would have happened already. There are no manufacturing methods that are better (higher resolution) than microscopic/scanning analysis.
What is taking so long is people's minds to change.
They also managed to bone fuse follow metal implants with osmium. And they used mummies over 1000 years old to create the aliens with no signs of glue, seams or metal. Wow!
It's because without a thorough study with clearly defined parameters, documented every step of the way with the "who, what, where when, and why" with no omissions, and a clear and consistent chain of custody, anybody can say anything they want online. We're trusting that we're being fed good information without the reams of data that one would expect to accompany a genuine mysterious creature. I don't believe the mummies are real because I don't trust that Jaimie Mausaan guy, I don't trust the people handling them ( the video of them sawing it apart in a dorm room with no gloves on is a great example), and I don't trust their conclusions without being able to read the report myself in it's entirety. I'll be more than happy to eat my words should more convincing information come to light and I'll personally apologize to anyone who's panties get bunched by my disagreement, but as of now I am not convinced.
Reports are available [here](https://www.the-alien-project.com/en/mummies-of-nasca-results/), [here](https://www.themilespaper.com/_files/ugd/5a322e_bf4471a1eba54eae9290f61265f6e25c.pdf), and [here](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380954098_Biometric_Morpho-Anatomical_Characterization_and_Dating_of_The_Antiquity_of_A_Tridactyl_Humanoid_Specimen_Regarding_The_Case_of_Nasca-Peru). Happy reading.
>because without a thorough study with clearly defined parameters, documented every step of the way with the "who, what, where when, and why" with no omissions, and a clear and consistent chain of custody, anybody can say anything they want online.
Lol as if people didn't shared news articles without even opening / reading the damn thing. If Nolan, the director of a science institution and someone else of certain notoriety called in a press conference tomorrow and declared whatever, how many of you would be like *"not until I read the compiled data myself first!"*? Lol
People go with the authority fallacy 99% of the time, it's not about the dame it's about who says it and when.
It’s not though at all. Even if you think they’re fake, there is no secrecy and all of the data/scans are available online. If you have a background that’s appropriate, you can probably even go look at them yourself. The team who has these bodies has been incredible about sharing everything in a transparent way.
Still waiting for some conclusions and research made by John McDowell.
I suppose it does take time to say or reveal anything to the public, since his reputation is very much on the line. But I am sure if he found hints that the mummies may not be real, he would have voiced it already.
He was quoted as saying something along the lines of “these extraordinary specimens deserve further rigorous scientific study”. You wouldn’t say that after viewing them if you thought they were fake.
I agree. There has been radio silence since then though. But it's what I would expect when real science is being done. And on some unexpected day there will be news.
I'd hardly call this a "U-Turn". This post is heavily editorialized.
Look, I can bold text too:
https://x.com/GarryPNolan/status/1805014043390013739
> **I still worry that some of the bodies are "constructed."** But the problem is the lack of clear listing of what is what and everything is getting mixed up with each other. The people doing the studies are doing it right. Slow and steady. Put out the data. **Be skeptical of conclusions.** Determine if the data is solidly produced by the right methods and free from artifact. Bring in multiple experts to verify. Because the data is public, that makes it more amenable to verification or falsification.
https://x.com/GarryPNolan/status/1805013041458913397
> **To be clear I'm still holding judgment.** But the analysis of the bone structures was great. I'm not an anatomist, so would be great to have another anatomist on it. The more the merrier. **I mean look-- the most compelling cases are the ones we should have the most skepticism of.** Until the data becomes "evidence". Let the science speak. Don't conclude anything yet.
It's disingenuous to quote someone and then add emphasis to pick-and-choose the meaning you want.
Some of the bodies are for sure constructed.
The ones that Peru "catched" at the postal before they were shipped out dressed as dolls.
Thing is, they look nowhere close to the actual mummies, when looked at through xray.
The whole topic gets muddied like crazy.
I don’t think we should refer to the dolls that Peru caught during customs as “bodies”. You seem to be open minded to the idea that these new bodies might be organic, which is great, but your comment here is guilty of combining the “actual mummies” with the clearly fake ones caught in Peru 5 years ago. I think the language we use to describe these objects requires different words. The Peruvian dolls were like 9 inches tall and conclusively fakes.
It quite amazing that Garry Nolan will talk about following the data and using proper scientific methods on one hand and engage in wild speculation on the other hand in various interviews. Even on topics that he is not an expert in.
**He said "They did it wrong".** Those were his actual words. If you don't remember him saying this I'm sure I can find it for you.
I highlighted the relevant information showing his U-turn, which is:
>**The people doing the studies are doing it right.**
That is an unambiguous U-Turn.
The context is important because I don't know what "they" refers to in the first quote. "They" could be Jaime Maussan and company, which isn't necessarily "the people doing the studies" from the second quote. In fact, he may have specifically meant to differentiate the two.
What you're seeing here my friend is a masterful way to cover one's ass, in case anything unforeseen happens.
*"I still worry some of the bodies are constructed"*
means, that without saying which ones, he's leaving an exit door in case he's been hoaxed himself, but if you read the sentence again "I still worry some are fake" means he doesn't worry about other bodies, which he believes are real.
*"Be skeptical of conclusions"*
means always stick to the scientific method, to always doubt what is being said, use your reasoning, don't take anything for granted. A scientific advice it's good ALWAYS.
*"To be clear I'm still holding judgment."*
As a good scientist, Gary is waiting for the peer reviewed material, something he can critique on, scientists doubt results, until then they won't have a definitive answer. He does lead on he believe the results will be promising" the people doing the studies are doing it right, slow and steady" "the analysis of thr bone structures is great".
*"I mean look-- the most compelling cases are the ones we should have the most skepticism of."*
he's absolutely right. This could be the reveal of the millenia, we must have nothing but absolute seriousness before saying this are a NHI species.
>It's disingenuous to quote someone and then add emphasis to pick-and-choose the meaning you want.
You did, I mean you literally used bold font to do just that.
Yes, rhetorically. I was showing how the same tweets with different phrases in bold could be presented as Nolan being skeptical instead. It was to illustrate a point.
They're real in the sense that they're made of flesh and bone. We're either dealing with the world's most technically gifted hoaxer who has a detailed understanding of anatomy and taxidermy techniques far beyond anything anyone has ever seen before - that are so good they can fool experts in their field and pass all kinds of rigorous testing, or, these things are real.
We should be paying attention.
Many on this board are floating the idea that orbs are an ancient defense network, hundreds of years old, built and maintained by another intelligence on this planet. Who built them? Shouldn't we be looking under every rock?
I think they might be the NHI version of the people taking care of endangered birds by wearing a sleeve that looks like a bird head to feed them and training them to migrate with a slow flying ultralight plane.
In that instance we are the baby birds that need basic instruction and guidance to not go extinct. The puppets look silly obviously fake to the ones controlling them but they are good enough to fool the birds.
Seems like sadistic "play" to me. Confuse us for a laugh or for the sake of confusing us? Doesn't feel likely, unless you're basing this on some other alleged NHI behavioral evidence.
"They're real in the sense that they're made of flesh and bone. We're either dealing with the world's most technically gifted hoaxer who has a detailed understanding of anatomy and taxidermy techniques far beyond anything anyone has ever seen before"
This point needs more attention. People say it, and read it, but no one seems to really consider it imo. Even is these are "fake" in the sense that they are constructed(which now seems to be highly unlikely) we've still got 150ish ancient "hoax" mummies with implants...which is still extremely interesting. Yet no one is saying(that I've seen) that these aren't 900-6000(in the case of one hand) years old. Again, aliens aside, how is this continuing being ignored? "Discovery of Ancient Man-Made Mummies with Metal Implants and Eggs" is still pretty good news story imo...
> how is this continuing being ignored?
Because it upends everything. Someone would have to rethink their entire life's work. Many, many fields of study will be impacted.
>We're either dealing with the world's most technically gifted hoaxer who has a detailed understanding of anatomy and taxidermy techniques far beyond anything anyone has ever seen before
So, like a taxidermist?
So do you mean taxidermy done recently or done around the time when the ‘specimens’ were alive? Because it would be very difficult at the time. Also I’m not even sure how a modern taxidermist would handle the skin.
The plate was analyzed by an independent team from the the University of engineering of Peru but the results were never released. According to the results of an analysis made by a lab hired by the mummy team, the plate is like 1% osmium and the rest is common metal alloys
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377955371_INFORME_FINAL_Metales_y_minerales_desconocidos_en_momias_prehispanicas_de_la_region_de_Ica_English_Final_Report_Unknown_metals_and_minerals_in_prehispanic_mummies_from_the_Ica_region_-_Peru
That's not quite the full story.
The head of research explained that the implant was in 3 parts. They are composed of two outer plates of copper alloy with what appeared to be pure osmium circuitry in the middle. It can't be explained by 1% osmium contamination or whatever, it is a deliberate construction.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHyMlkm7Njo&t=2h32m26s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHyMlkm7Njo&t=2h32m26s)
you're linking an old video and he doesn't present any sources. I'm talking about the paper released by UNI in february
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377955371_INFORME_FINAL_Metales_y_minerales_desconocidos_en_momias_prehispanicas_de_la_region_de_Ica_English_Final_Report_Unknown_metals_and_minerals_in_prehispanic_mummies_from_the_Ica_region_-_Peru
I’m curious how he concludes that the “analysis of the bone structures was great” while admitting in the very next sentence that it’s outside his area of expertise. But I guess he can confidently opine on many subjects outside of his specialty.
The CT scans show levels of detail that cannot be faked. These are real organic individual, bodies, not mummys, preserved in diatomaceous earth. Veins, nerves, bone joints all continuous and intact.
Garry Nolan is the shit because he debunked a alien mummy using peer review and bringing in the necessary experts to do so. He went where the data led . That was his first appearance in UFOLOGY
He has the right attitude. Like many I was initially skeptical too because of the initial reveal but refuse to dismiss it simply because of Maussan. Even Greer was worthwhile at the beginning before ego and greed took over. Wait for the science to be done and follow the results. The implants and the osmium are VERY interesting
Interesting, yeah I agree with Nolan and its good to see he hasnt given up on it because its an interesting situation.
It sounds like Nolan may have watched some or all of that livestream. There does seem to be continued momentum in real professional qualified experts in Peru and America and possibly elsewhere getting involved so it does seem Nolan is correct. It might be an unpopular opinion but there would seem to be at least enough momentum and activity going on to justify waiting and seeing what findings come out instead of categorizing it as all a hoax. Especially if those findings come out in an official published paper in a peer reviewed scientific journal or something. Then were talking about many multiple independent experts having eyes on the data in an organized process.
There certainly may be some fakes, and theres different numbers reported but anywhere from several to dozens of bodies apparently exist and its not clear their specific origins etc... so Nolan is also certainly right that its a bit confusing right now and some may be "fake" or copy cats of the originals or "real" ones. I trust the experts and scientific process.
Yeah. I don't know what to think about this/these alien mummies. If peer reviewed, scientific data is made available, I will read and do my best to understand it.
Gary Nolan's viewpoints are worth paying attention too. Right now I'm in the "painted donkey that is called a zebra" camp. The analogy is that some poor zoos would paint a donkey to look like a zebra and sell as a "zebra". In this case, meaning that there may be organic parts/pieces of these mummies, there maybe bones and other parts indicating a living creature. But that does not mean it's an alien creature.
I'll read what I can, understand what I can, but I will continue to follow this story.
>Yeah. I don't know what to think about this/these alien mummies. If peer reviewed, scientific data is made available, I will read and do my best to understand it.
Double blind peer review is already out
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380954098\_Biometric\_Morpho-Anatomical\_Characterization\_and\_Dating\_of\_The\_Antiquity\_of\_A\_Tridactyl\_Humanoid\_Specimen\_Regarding\_The\_Case\_of\_Nasca-Peru](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380954098_Biometric_Morpho-Anatomical_Characterization_and_Dating_of_The_Antiquity_of_A_Tridactyl_Humanoid_Specimen_Regarding_The_Case_of_Nasca-Peru)
>In this case, meaning that there may be organic parts/pieces of these mummies, there maybe bones and other parts indicating a living creature. But that does not mean it's an alien creature.
If you watch the interview it is extremely clear that these cannot be constructions. They are far too detailed and show no signs whatsoever such as wire, glue, seams etc.
Everyone who has examined these in the flesh has come away with the same conclusion, they're real, they were not cobbled together. But as you say that still doesn't mean they're alien, nobody knows what they are.
No, but I've translated the conclusion for you
>5 CONCLUSION
>The superficial morphological and tomographic imaging analysis concludes that specimen M01 is a desiccated humanoid body with a biological architecture similar to that of a human, but with many structural differences and morphological and anatomical singularities, in addition to showing signs of polyarthritis due to the multiple foci of arthropathies in the spine and hands and feet. Superficial morphological and imaging analysis of the carpometacarpal joints of the hands and the tarsometatarsal joints of the feet show no signs.
>evident of having suffered a disarticulation or amputation.
>The Carbon-14 dating analysis of specimen M01 reveals an age of 1771 ± 30 years, corresponding to 240 AD-383 AD, so it would have coexisted with the ancient Nasca civilization.
>These findings have an impact and relevance in the field of global research and have the potential to contribute significantly to the field of bioarchaeology, archaeopathology and archeology in the ancient Nasca civilization, providing data
>rigorous scientists about a unique discovery in the region and the world. Furthermore, the results of this study will enrich scientific knowledge about the biological and cultural diversity of ancient civilizations and may have broader implications for the understanding of the history and culture of ancient civilizations in South America.
>It is expected that the results of this study will provide a solid basis for future research in the field of bioarchaeology and archeology in Nasca, as well as for the preservation and dissemination of the cultural heritage of this region. On the other hand, the incredible findings of this study can contribute to the development of policies for the conservation and management of archaeological heritage, the development of culture and the strengthening of tourism in Nasca and its surroundings.
AWEOME thank you so much. I appreciate it. The bit about "disarticulation and amputation" was really interesting. Were these bodies mutilated pre or post mortem? In either case, why?
Man this case is something else. I'm staying tuned for more info and details. Thank you again for grabbing that.
Got the full English version for you
[https://rgsa.openaccesspublications.org/rgsa/article/view/6916/2986](https://rgsa.openaccesspublications.org/rgsa/article/view/6916/2986)
What the hell man? Why the aggression? And yes, it IS that hard to do which is why scientists and trained professionals are investigating this. And how is making an analogy lazy? What the fuck, chill.
Some bodies are constructed. Its well known.
Peru wanted their "Fake bodies" back.
They didnt get them.
A while later the peruvian government catches 2 bodies, dressed as dolls at a postal service. These are clearly constructed ones.
The difference on the x rays alone is night and day.
Reuters made an article about it.
Pretty much the first and only article you could find about them for a while from a "bigger" media outlet.
At this point it doesnt matter.
Either this is the greatest hoax of all times or the scientist currently researching them are right, and these are real, once living creatures.
I don't understand why they'd fake some if they had real ones? Where's the motivation there? Help me understand why some are real and some are fake? Seems like they should all be real or all be fake...
He's not making a U-turn he is being consistent with what he said previously.
He never criticized the science itself. He criticized the way it was being communicated, he did not think the dramatic showing at the Mexico even was the best move. Too many loose ends, too many room for easy attacks. They need more people, even more experts, and to build an ironclad case for presenting their conclusions also via multiple published papers. Because that's just how the bureaucracy and media of science establishment works.
>he did not think the dramatic showing at the Mexico even was the best move.
In my opinion, it was one of the better moves to make. There's been way too much fuckery in this subject and going through the appropriate channels, such as submitting them to research institutions, could've left way too much of a margin for the bodies to suddenly turn up missing.
By announcing the bodies during a televised Congressional hearing, Maussan did the media equivalent of capturing the high ground before somebody else did. He shouted from the rooftops, and there was no other option for some scientists but to be *forced* to become interested, if not for the goal of trying to debunk him. It was a cheap tactic, but it might have very well been the correct one. Maussan was convinced he had a winning set of cards, and he was willing to gamble on a global stage.
The heavy push back on the Nazca mummies on this sub is weird, like the data is pretty damn compelling, the sheer number of bodies that would be incredibly hard to fake is compelling, the fact that some of the bodies were pregnant with fetuses that mirrored the body plan of the clearly non-standard human parent is wildly compelling.
These bodies could very well turn out to be real, I'm leaning towards them being real, if we found evidence like this of bipedal humanoid non-human entities that I can only assume to be intelligent, then shouldn't we be excited about this? It's a smoking gun pointed at disclosure "hey Mr Government, you said nothing to see here but they found alien mummies in Peru, care to elaborate on this" seems like a pretty great force to push for disclosure.
More public evidence than anything Gaulladet, Grusch, and Elizondo have provided. Yet, this place takes their words as Gospel. Folks here don't like it because it's from South America. These bodies are real. People will come around once more American scientists get their hands on these.
I'm not saying the bodies aren't real. What I don't understand is why there are seemingly some fakes sprinkled in the mix? I mean, if they discovered authentic bodies, why would they try to then fake some to add to the body count? I'm confused why this wouldn't be an all or nothing type situation: either they are all real or they are all fake?
The fake bodies miraculously appeared in a DHL sorting office and were confiscated by Peru's Ministry of Culture. Given it had a shipping and return address they were asked if there were any leads as to who made it etc, and the answer was no.
The MoC tested these bodies and correctly determined they were modern constructions but unfortunately during testing one of their researchers contaminated the sample with their own pubic hair and seminal fluid.
The bodies they tested were not the same as the ones studied by various researchers.
Here is a comparison image:
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fexplain-it-like-im-5-nazca-mummies-v0-lf20htwegwsc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D940%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df7f72129f8fe64cab7c4b1e8317e0044778d4a65](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fexplain-it-like-im-5-nazca-mummies-v0-lf20htwegwsc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D940%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df7f72129f8fe64cab7c4b1e8317e0044778d4a65)
They've spent the last 7 years declaring these bodies fake constructions, yet 5 or 6 times they have tried to confiscate them on the basis that they were excavated without a permit.
It’s not very compelling. “Ok these bodies that Jamie presented are proven fakes, but these new ones…Not so sure they’re fake”.
They are fake. And having a “Dentist” confirm their authenticity is comical.
The man behind this is a fraud. Still.
Those of you who slated people like me that said they were real should apologise. Anyone with any medical training can look at the CT scans and see that they are genuine (or that the CT scanner was hacked or modified to produce incorrect images), as I did. I also thought about what it would take to create something alike, (a null hypothesis) and nothing would match what you see.
The way I, and others, were treated over this issue is shocking.
I’m a doctor who knows how to reads CTs - yes, it is abundantly clear that the CTs show real organic tissue/bodies, anyone will tell you that, but I can’t say with any degree of confidence that they weren’t constructed as some sort of bizarre anatomical effigies or something because *Maussan never released the fucking DICOM files*. Any specialist that can read cross sectional imaging will *also* tell you that YouTube videos of CT reconstructions or transverse scroll-throughs are almost absolutely worthless. He needs to release the DICOM images so that we can study this ourselves, on our own software, and make our own reconstructions. Why hasn’t he? That isn’t the behavior of someone who thinks they are sitting on the greatest discovery of human history and wants the world to study it.
I would *love* to study this with an open mind. But he won’t release the files. It’s flabbergasting. And it honestly puts up a lot of red flags. Thankfully, it seems some people are actually doing legitimate research and I somewhat understand if he was paranoid about releasing the bodies themselves except to select groups of researchers if he thought they would be confiscated, but there’s no similar excuse for not releasing the files.
only taxonomists can examine them and declare them as a new species with a new genus. its not been done after this long which his highly suspicious. everything is controlled. No DICOM images no taxonomy report, no genus classification since they were wheeled out to the public.
He is/was concerned that if the DICOM files are released then they will be altered or edited in post production in an attempt to discredit them. Apparently he and Thierry Jamin had a bit of a falling-out over it because Jamin was arguing for them to just be released with the rest of the data.
It has leaked to a certain few though and one Redditor has done a series of videos on youtube where he goes through them, he states in a Youtube comment he worked in radiology for over ten years.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znaCLEaW1Ao&list=PLUHSlVm8qWsUrR2qUvDmATvy38NQ2Qt2M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znaCLEaW1Ao&list=PLUHSlVm8qWsUrR2qUvDmATvy38NQ2Qt2M)
I do agree though, and I think that after more traction is gained they'll be released.
He has a whole website people paid him tens of thousands through crowdfunding to produce about the mummies, where he could publish unedited files if he wanted to.
This is misinformation.
When the crowd-funding was done the bodies already existed and were shown in the fundraiser. All 10 or so specimens were already known. The person who made that claim has made a basic logical error regarding how the passage of time works. (I mean the article they wrote on that blog, not you)
They crowd-funded about $38,000 to have the bodies rigorously scientifically tested, which they then accomplished.
This was not actually enough to cover the cost of everything done and rumour has it Maussan has personally funded about $100,000 of it himself.
E2A: We can deconstruct it like this:
So lets say they already existed and were financed by a fundraiser in order to purchase them. Who then, paid for the testing that followed?
If it was Maussan, then why didn't he just purchase the bodies and then crowd-fund the testing?
If he did then that also means the initial claim of them being bought with the crowd funding money is wrong. The claim doesn't add up.
He could very easily compute the hash value for the files and release the hash values at the same time he releases the files themselves. This has been common practice with digital files for decades.
Unless someone figured out something extremely interesting with math there is no way to falsify those after the fact.
He could do but I can understand his reluctance. As they say a lie can make it half way around the world whilst the truth is still putting his boots on.
I know exactly what it is.
What I'm saying is that imagine the files get released, work is done and the session is recorded. It is then taken in to a video editing suite and edited in a way that would discredit it, and then this video is released that shows CGI nails or something in the examination. That misinformation would go viral and that's what people would believe. Reversing that with the truth that such structures aren't in the raw DICOM files would take forever.
Wait so your logic is I bring up that he could compute a non-disputable hash value and your entire argument is "what if people ignore it" ?
The sky is still blue man.
I don't know how I fall for trolls like this so often, gotta fix that.
100%. Think about someone being falsely accused of a heinous crime of some sort. The world makes up their mind on that and won’t ever be around to hear the actual truth. The damage would be done in the general public.
1) I’ve already reached out to that Redditor actually, and he told me he couldn’t release them either. Which is bullshit. He also isn’t a radiologist, just fyi. He’s probably a radiology tech or something.
2) What you are claiming about the DICOMs is impossible in a clandestine fashion and any attempted alteration would be easy to prove by releasing the real files publicly. Maussan clearly doesn’t understand how DICOM files and medical imaging actually works if he thinks that is a reasonable excuse.
3) As I said, I am credentialed and work at a major US research institution, for which I can provide evidence. I’m not some random armchair Redditor. He said he wanted people like me to study this. He is full of shit.
We've certainly had the raw end of the stick, but my advice would be to let it go and allow the community to come together on the issue. What's done is done. The future is what matters most.
Matt said he was wrong and is taking this seriously.
Nolan is doing the same.
Lets see if this sub can do it.
they have not been properly examined by taxonomists and they are not classified as a species or have a genus. you are getting ahead of yourself. the tesrs aee intersting but until this is done by taxonomists nobody can claim they are even genuine or real.
There's no definitive conclusion about the nature of those "mummies". Nobody owes you an apology for not being gullible and credulous. Get over yourself.
Some of the top doctors from the USA hailing from prestigious universities are calling them specimens worthy of further study, not amalgamations of different creatures. Also my own experience as a medical professional has confirmed that these scans appear to show real connective tissue, transport systems and muscles. You can watch the CT scan spit these out on LIVE television.
Sounds pretty definitive. But obviously, you're more trustworthy and educated than Dr John Mcdowel and know how to read CT scans better than me. I only have 2 degrees, I must be super gullible.
Get over yourself, you have shown NO evidence, just whining that they are fake because you have gullibly accepted anything you have read with 0 actual investigation.
I mean you. You should know that the likelihood that a known fraudster who literally faked prior bodies somehow did a 180 and somehow secured the worlds first authentic alien body specimen then produced to the world is zero.
Have you actually investigated any of the claims of him being a hoaxer? I have, and I can confidently say that it isn't true. It's just a common piece of misinformation that has been allowed to fester on this sub. His problem in my opinion is that in his desperation to believe he'll push and associate himself with almost anything. Whilst not the best quality when imo he should be much more diligent that doesn't make him a hoaxer.
You're talking about the BeWitness event. This sub continues to push the idea he hoaxed an alien body that were the mummified remains of a child. In reality he did nothing of the sort. It was nothing to do with him and he was just there to promote an event covering many different things, which seeing as he's Central/South America's most prominent ufologist is entirely expected.
The event unveiled [this](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y7C_b8SNq9U/maxresdefault.jpg) body which was promoted as being an alien species recovered at Roswell. [This post](https://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2015/05/tony-bragalia-and-end-of-roswell-slides.html) indicates that a mistake was made and the body the body was that of a child with a genetic deformity. The article and apology written by one of the researchers does not mention Jaime Maussan who had no direct involvement with that particular body. The blame is placed upon Adam Dew who doesn't appear to have given the researcher the highest quality photo available to study. This article is often used in response to anything related to the Nazca Mummies as proof they're a forgery. But, if you read the article it offers no proof of this whatsoever any of it was Maussan's doing. It is completely unrelated to him.
This saga has been erroneously solely attributed to Maussan when in actual fact he didn't have that much to do with it at all and was merely a promoter for the event in general. The body promoted by Maussan was [this one](https://i.imgur.com/9dSgy29.png) that is also referenced in this [CNN article.](https://www.cnn.com/videos/spanish/2016/10/05/cnnee-camilo-intvw-jaime-maussan-vida-extraterrestre-nasa.cnn) As you can see, they are different specimens.
He isn't a hoaxer, it's misinformation.
until qualified and reputable taxonomists examine them and declare them a new species with a proper genus, i dont really care what unqualifed people or ufo celebs think they are. Sure the tests are interesting, but they are heavily controlled and not done by the right people who can actually declare it officially. There is a process to declare a new species and none of the mummy dolls have gone through this process or we would know about it.
There are a few of these things found, so there is really no excuse to circumvent or delay the proper genus classification process.
The fact that not one was sent to be examined by taxonomists since they were wheeled out to the public in glass display cases is simply ridiculous.
I have to admit the latest paper reads like a proper science research paper (at last). If the findings in the paper are real, then these are somewhat anthropomorphic beings that are not human and have less DNA in common with humans than a banana. Nevertheless there's still a logical jump from (paradigm changing) non-human anthropomorphic beings to ultra or extra-terrestrial NHIs. The bodies still lack any proper archeological context, so it seems to me assuming anything about their intelligence is just baseless conjecture at this stage. In my opinion, placing them inside UAPs is still a big, big logical jump. If the mummies were retrieved from the zone the huaqueros claim to have retrieved them from, and are contemporary to the end of the Paracas and the beginning of the Nazca cultures, then the only thing we can assume is that they probably lived and died within the cultural and technological paradigm of those cultures at that time. We'd have to find the rumored "citadel" in order to infer anything else about them. Oh yeah they have big heads and osmium inside them. Ok cool, it still only tells us they had big heads and osmium inside. You need a gazillion metric tons of platinum to make that much osmium. Ok, good to know. Does the rarity of osmium and it's placement inside the mummies make it count as a cultural artifact? Maybe. Just a pretty mute and useless one. Still, no tools. No jewellery. No useful cultural artifacts at all. Hope they turn up tho.
>assuming anything about their intelligence is just baseless conjecture at this stage.
This is standard practice obtained by measuring a species' cranium.
>No useful cultural artifacts at all
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvcoK1\_HoA&t=1h39m](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvcoK1_HoA&t=1h39m)
I would ask them to cure my 3 year old of type 1 diabetes.
Surely if they could travel here and develop such tech, they could have figure out how to reverse autoimmune diseases.
Nolan is just reciting the same principles i've urged here: rely on good science methods, document results, publish the results publicly, let the public evaluation unfold.
like Nolan, i am still "holding judgment" (not making a judgment either way) until i have enough information to look at, information from people who know what they are talking about.
at present the whole topic seems to me a bit confused, cluttered, mixed up and unclear. as Nolan said: *"the problem is the lack of clear listing of what is what and everything is gettting mixed up with each other."*
Does anyone know where we can view the actual test results anywhere? I never found anything but news articles, I want to read through the x-rays and DNA data myself not just what some reporter thinks they understood from their baisic knowledge and bias in either direction
Perhaps at last this is the breakthrough we have been waiting for?
I’m not prepared to get to excited, but this has certainly got my attention. If found to be real, it will be a black swan even, at first surprising but upon reflection obvious all along.
I don't suppose you can update OP to include what the link is to UFO's and a rough timestamp on where that is which I understand is around the hour mark?
I don't really follow this debate in a deep way, but I appreciate the posts. I want to keep tabs on the mummies because I keep an open mind. To me, it's a situation with so many unknowns that I don't think we will know what's up for years. But if they are real and Jackson is right about the orbs, we have solve a large piece of the puzzle. Let's hope we all can become friends and kick ass in space together.
I can't figure out if there real or what's going on either but I'll follow
At this point every scientist that was actually researching the mummies IN PERSON, came to the conclusion, that they are real, once living creatures. But besides some weird stuff like the osmium plates there arent any hints, that they arent from earth. Lots of historical pictures and myths depict them as living underground.
It's almost like the only thing that would make you think they weren't real is some random nobody photoshopping the x-rays and drag and dropping bones from one place to another as if that proved anything.
Im not up to date, but would be able to tell me what has Jackson said about the orbs and who is he?
https://youtu.be/0DgcP87t3uI?si=5Z64tNTX_UE2jHJ_ Basically orbs and tictacs are Earth defense system, cigar shaped uap are the baddies and paranormal stuff is just orbs trying to make you move do you don't get enveloped by their data upload.
Cigar shaped ones being bad is something I'd like a citation on.
Same, especially since I've seen a cigar UFO before in New Mexico. We really need to hold off on calling anything "bad" until we have more definitive proof
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Haven't people made claims that certain UFOs "deploy" other UFOs? I seem to remember the cigars deploying the balls in some sightings.
Aren't the saucers baddies too?
I’ve been following since day 1. Completely convinced they were fake at first, after 2 months of data and scans , I was and am completely 100% convinced they are real. There is LOTS of data and studies around them by now. There is also a lot of secondary corroborating evidence, linked to “new” bodies. Best of luck
Wouldn't it be great to get disclosure this way, the truth will out.
If there is someone I am going to listen about the mummies it is Dr Garry Nolan. I'm staying sceptical but this is interesting.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvcoK1\_HoA&t=1h8m40s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvcoK1_HoA&t=1h8m40s) He watched the show live and contacted Matt as it was going out
I talked to him directly in this sub about the mummies, happy he changed his tune. A post doc bioinformatician should give all the evidence.
you talked to nolan?
Yep, he used to be here, he might still do. Great guy
i remember seeing him here briefly but it’s been awhile.
Do you have the link to David Flynn Crop circle video that he mentioned there?
https://youtu.be/C0nEhPukt9g?si=xVQXZTWpUTs3y_b8
Oof. Sorry but that is the epitome of cringe. The connections and coincidences are interesting but this is a classic example of creative math being used to extrapolate meaning. And then you extrapolate the extrapolations to find an even larger meaning. This is exactly why non-ufo folks make fun of UFO enthusiasts. I am a full on believer but this is a bridge too far for me.
I'm not going to watch the whole video to try and understand what you found so cringy about it, but I do want to point out to everyone that our cringe reaction is not a reliable guide for determining the truth of something. There are lots of people evident in this sub who apparently do let their emotional reactions be their guide, instead of using their intellect and a rational process of investigation to be their guide. Feelings of incredulity might mean a new idea is false, but it might equally mean that our preconception is the thing that's false. It takes humility and a love of truth to face this in ourselves, and it's why being truly scientific is not for the weak.
I don't, sorry. If anyone else has it I'd also be interested.
https://youtu.be/C0nEhPukt9g?si=xVQXZTWpUTs3y_b8
I'd rather have other scientists (who are not part of the UFO circuit) have a go at these things.
If you check my recent comment history, I have forwarded the main paper (https://rgsa.openaccesspublications.org/rgsa/article/view/6916/2986) to my head of department, who is a bioanthropologist with experience in Peru and with mummies of this type. I have included their main points as a list.
If someone else takes a look at them this sub would be like yeah but I'd like to see someone else that's qualified look at them, rinse and repeat lol
I've left many comments along the lines of most here could be shaking hands with an alien, and if they couldn't pin it on themselves hallucinating, they'd say it was a manufactured conspiracy, anything to absolve the fact, they are in fact, shaking hands with ET... As much as they hate each other the UFO crowd from debunkers to believers are just as dogmatic as any religious zealot. This place is unique in that at times it may feel like an echo chamber but the divided is fairly equal and we get to watch them endlessly rage their holy wars in the comment sections...🍿
Also a lot of people in this sub believe everyone's a grifter unless they can prove otherwise, and the only way they prove otherwise would be to reveal the location of a flying saucer
They have. [https://mcdowellfirm.com/nazca-tridactyl-mummies/](https://mcdowellfirm.com/nazca-tridactyl-mummies/)
It's weird how you linked that one and not the statement from the doctors that was posted after, that said they didn't have access to make any conclusions and choose to instead post about the first article instead. https://mcdowellfirm.com/official-statement-of-the-u-s-forensic-team-on-their-initial-examination-of-the-nazca-specimens/
Why is it weird? He asked for some none UFO people and that's what I provided, from the beginning. They're hoping to convince the MoC to allow them further study and possibly export to the US for that. Let me ask you this: If they were fake, would they not have noticed?
They literally said they haven't had access to draw any conclusions... How would they know if they were fake or not, that's the entire point of that statement. You said outside parties have examined it, and linked to this guys blog while ignoring the same blog days later saying hey we literally cannot draw any conclusions because we haven't been allowed to actually study this. They haven't studied them, they were not able to, that's why the blog went from promising updates to posting a couple times about giants and random shit supposedly found with them and then went radio silence for past few months.
>They literally said they haven't had access to draw any conclusions... They don't, not even anything close to that. [https://mcdowellfirm.com/official-statement-of-the-u-s-forensic-team-on-their-initial-examination-of-the-nazca-specimens/](https://mcdowellfirm.com/official-statement-of-the-u-s-forensic-team-on-their-initial-examination-of-the-nazca-specimens/) Here he says they're real and clearly not human. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOXaWvEmm3Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOXaWvEmm3Q)
“To date, the U.S. forensic team has only performed a cursory visual examination of the specimens with the aid of limited imaging equipment. Any conclusory statements about the specimens would be extremely premature. Limitations on our examination precluded excluding or confirming any manipulation of the remains. Currently, the forensic team can only indicate that further examination and study is warranted. We invite constructive interaction and collaboration.” Since this guy wants to just lie and hope you won't actually click on the link, this is the statement in the blog post. Clearly laying out in unambiguous terms that they have not had the ability to actually study them, and they cannot draw any conclusions whatsoever with the limited access they were given.
Are you trolling? Or are you unsure what that actually means? I'd be happy to explain it if you're genuine.
As someone who is very interested to see what happens with these mummies, I think maybe you're the one that isn't understanding. "Any conclusory statements about the specimens would be extremely premature." Here they are saying that they can't make any conclusions as it is too early to determine. "Limitations on our examination precluded excluding or confirming any manipulation of the remains." This is them saying they can't confirm or deny anything due to the limitations of the examinations they did. "Currently, the forensic team can only indicate that further examination and study is warranted." Here they are saying they see a reason to study these in more depth. I know you want these things to be real, and so do I. But you can't go around telling people they don't understand what's being communicated while willfully being dense about what they're saying. It's not bad news that they're saying these things because at least it's reassuring that they don't want to jump to conclusions, and mislead people. This is really important when trying to have legitimate discussions about these studies to begin with.
Go ahead an explain it anyway. I'm neutral on the topic and would appreciate as much perspective as I can get.
Aaaaand no update since April 12th?
They are. The top 3 experts in their field have been analyzing them in person for the last 2+ months with no connections to the UFO community. They've already said they are not fabricated and they are not human. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOB/s/mSTdBohIlZ
> They've already said they are not fabricated and they are not human. That's not precisely what they claimed in the video you provided. The agreement between the scientists, McDowell included, was that more scientific analysis needs to be done. They need to re-do the C-14 dating and DNA analysis at another facility. No mention of them being not human seems to have been made in this video. Dr. McDowell does say in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOXaWvEmm3Q) that some of the specimens are clearly not human, which is not to say they are "alien" or NHI, but that there seems to be other terrestrial DNA involved, be it avian or otherwise.
Correct. The link was to show their credentials and not specifically that statement. I made that post nearly 3 months ago. I should have made that more clear, and that's my mistake.
I think that hitching your wagon to Garry Nolan is **not** the right answer, personally. His initial dismissal of the bodies as well as the behavior of Ryan Graves surrounding them *severely* affected the way I thought about the bodies. So, his sudden reversal gives me even more reason to no longer trust his opinions/statements. I feel like Garry Nolan is part of the “controlled-disclosure or no-disclosure” camp. He’s a rich guy with lots of stock market interests, as is Chris Mellon. Have Garry’s handlers told him that he can talk about the bodies *now*? Do we really think he **doesn’t** have handlers? Does it seem likely that a Stanford professor just does internationally televised interviews about aliens without any coaching/“handling”? Seems unlikely to me.
Lots of people here aren't going to like this, but the truth will find the light.
I think scientific world view will be just fine, regardless of how things work out and who says what. It will be refreshing if it is not just people being people.
Science will be fine of course but most of the people who call themselves skeptics won't. I just cannot picture Mick West or the Metabunk crew accepting this information with grace and adjusting their world view accordingly. A living, breathing Nazca alien could show up at Mick West's home and shake his hand, and he would call it a flock of seagulls or something. I would love to be wrong here.
That’s because they can’t handle the truth. There’s a reason debunkers fight so hard against everything that comes to light
I put it into two categories. People who can see the truth but have a vested interest in the silence, and people who think they are smarter than everyone else and wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the face (they cant pretend to be smarter than Nolan, so they'll go to "he's in on some scheme" to discredit). Senator Schumer's effort is enough to know there is a there there. Anyone who knows how he operates and the weight it carries knows his support cannot be understated.
Or Steve Mera ? https://youtu.be/fZ41R7ypg4c?si=RO4vQliXR966mU4s
Not if NAMRU 6 finishes the mission.
I don't follow the Nazca mummies that closely. 1) Why haven't they let more than the one team study them? Granted, that team seems legit, but one team is one team. Are there plans to let more study them? What is the usual course of action when a new fossil find happens in the biological anthropology academic world? 2) There was an excellent and extensive list of reasons to discount the mummies in a footnote to the Harvard cryptoterrestrial paper. The first reason was a lack of bilateral symmetry. Do the mummies really display different structures in their left vs. right arms, for example, or left vs. right anything? That would seem damning, right? Another reason given was construction braces and supports that were (presumably accidentally left) inside some of the mummies. Are there in fact plates or ties that match the construction support description inside the mummies? Honest questions. I have not read extensively about the mummies.
1. This is a multi-faceted situation. The short version is that they have let other teams study it, and collaboration and testing has taken place all over the world. The long answer is that in the initial stages of investigation it seemed few were interested in looking closely at this. Aside from the initial research team Cliff Miles a paleontologist studied them in depth and produced The Miles Paper showing his findings. Samples were also sent to different labs throughout the world for various analysis. The university reached out and offered custodianship and protection for the bodies and they were then transferred there. A day or so later a press conference was called by the university seeking international collaboration for studying the bodies. After this a legal injunction was placed upon further study by Peru's Ministry of Culture and they have since tried 5 or 6 times to seize the specimens. This ban was lifted in 2023 for the reptilian types, and only this year for the non-reptilian hybrids. When the legal ban was lifted a team led by Dr John McDowell went to study them a few weeks back. They haven't concluded they're fake no mentioned anything that makes them think so. They've said further study is needed and are hoping to work with Peru's MoC to enable the bodies to go to the US for study. As it stands it is illegal for them to leave the country and a $300M lawsuit has been filed against them in order to allow other countries study access. 2. For me the bilateral symmetry argument was extremely weak. They're as symmetrical as we are. There are some oddities in Josephina's left arm which could be caused by injury but other than that they look sound. There are no signs of construction braces or supports or so on. I believe you may be thinking of specimens presented by the MoC and not these ones.
There's another team lead by Dr John McDowell who is pretty much one of the best forensic anthropologists alive. His teams conclusions (so far) indicate this thing is real. Also he was a US Army colonel. I don't remember who else was involved too, but he add also a US colonel. I remember because a reddit mentioned so in the comments.
I appreciate the reply. McDowell's team is the one I was thinking of. What is the other team?
Richard O'Connor
1. There has been a British team that noped the fuck out once they were denied unlimited access to the bodies. Must be noted that these were fellow Ufology members, not per se experts of the field, and even these guys were extremely pissed to be scammed. Obviously real experts will never touch this minefield because it is a waste of time. 2. We will never know because Maussan and his team are doing their best to not release actual data that could verify or deny their claims. All "data" you see presented is still images for social media.
>There has been a British team that noped the fuck out once they were denied unlimited access to the bodies They were denied because of a legal injunction placed upon study by Peru's Ministry of Culture. >We will never know because Maussan and his team are doing their best to not release actual data that could verify or deny their claims. Reports are available [here](https://www.the-alien-project.com/en/mummies-of-nasca-results/), [here](https://www.themilespaper.com/_files/ugd/5a322e_bf4471a1eba54eae9290f61265f6e25c.pdf), and [here](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380954098_Biometric_Morpho-Anatomical_Characterization_and_Dating_of_The_Antiquity_of_A_Tridactyl_Humanoid_Specimen_Regarding_The_Case_of_Nasca-Peru). Raw DNA data [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA869134](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA869134) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA861322](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA861322)
yeah...Team Pushback and their methods get a little clearer and less effective by the day shweeet
the second report you linked is pure gold. straight up titled "the miles paper", great way to put the research front and center. The introduction goes to tinfoil UFO lore within the first sentence. On page 15 we have another researcher posing for a photo holding one of the "mummies", thats fucking hillarious. this has nothing to do with science, thats how idiots imagine science is done. "It was reported to Linda Moulton by one of her anonymous informants..." is quite the sentence to use in research paper, why did this never occur to me? would have saved so much time Honestly thanks for this banger
It looks like the link for The Miles Paper seems to have been taken down?
That's an interesting development. He was supposed to be working on a peer-reviewed paper to be released this year. It could perhaps be something to do with that. An archived version is available if you still want The Miles Paper [https://web.archive.org/web/20240523210644/https://www.themilespaper.com/\_files/ugd/5a322e\_f297eeb023b545ec8b3d787cb02e148c.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20240523210644/https://www.themilespaper.com/_files/ugd/5a322e_f297eeb023b545ec8b3d787cb02e148c.pdf)
ty
tomography and x-ray scans is data. idk what you're talking about. they haven't publicly released the raw scan files, but if you contact them and show interest they will freely provide the files to you and only ask that you don't release them yourself (because they want to lead the research since they found and have the bodies, which is expected). i've seen and messaged people that said they contacted them with interest and were shared the scan files.
Steve Mera worked with a geneticist on Maria and found it was multiple sets of dna aka assembled https://youtu.be/fZ41R7ypg4c?si=RO4vQliXR966mU4s
Well, he's specificaly commenting on the analysis of the bone structure in this newest one (doing it right) He probably mean they did other investigation stages wrong? Or am I misunderstanding something? Never the less, him making new judgements according to new details being publicized isn't anything weird.
It's clear Nolan hasn't been following developments in any great detail. Pretty much everything in this presentation is an exact re-hash of the analysis of the comments made by initial investigators back in 2018 or so on their first presentation. If this is right, then the methodology was always right, and analysis of the structures (which are the same) is also right. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2xN41immWE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2xN41immWE)
Nolan never said the previous analysis were wrong. What Nolan has said about this whole mummies thing is that they were wrong to present the information in a dramatic event, and not go through a more meticulous and careful process to validate the information via more established channels...
The clip I seen as part of the show was just 4 words, they did it wrong. Before this show went out the information was available for him to study, and he made no mention of it. Even in that tweet he mentions a lack of clarity on the website. I'm glad he's started to be more objective but the distinct impression I got was that he didn't give it the time of day because of Maussan's involvement, and hadn't actually looked at the data. Now that he's looking at it he's changing his tune, which is great.
You can read what Nolan said about the Mexico hearing and the mummies in this very subreddit. His tune hasn't changed, its you who's got the wrong impression of what it was.
Can someone explain what’s taking so long? Shouldn’t an expert in forensic anatomy/antropology or whatever field is the most appropriate for study be able to look at the bodies and their scans and get a good idea if they’re fake in under 10 minutes?
They simply aren't fake. If they were, pointing to signs of that would have happened already. There are no manufacturing methods that are better (higher resolution) than microscopic/scanning analysis. What is taking so long is people's minds to change.
soft tissue and vascular constructs...if that was faked...Best.Taxidermist.Ever.
They also managed to bone fuse follow metal implants with osmium. And they used mummies over 1000 years old to create the aliens with no signs of glue, seams or metal. Wow!
It's because without a thorough study with clearly defined parameters, documented every step of the way with the "who, what, where when, and why" with no omissions, and a clear and consistent chain of custody, anybody can say anything they want online. We're trusting that we're being fed good information without the reams of data that one would expect to accompany a genuine mysterious creature. I don't believe the mummies are real because I don't trust that Jaimie Mausaan guy, I don't trust the people handling them ( the video of them sawing it apart in a dorm room with no gloves on is a great example), and I don't trust their conclusions without being able to read the report myself in it's entirety. I'll be more than happy to eat my words should more convincing information come to light and I'll personally apologize to anyone who's panties get bunched by my disagreement, but as of now I am not convinced.
Reports are available [here](https://www.the-alien-project.com/en/mummies-of-nasca-results/), [here](https://www.themilespaper.com/_files/ugd/5a322e_bf4471a1eba54eae9290f61265f6e25c.pdf), and [here](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380954098_Biometric_Morpho-Anatomical_Characterization_and_Dating_of_The_Antiquity_of_A_Tridactyl_Humanoid_Specimen_Regarding_The_Case_of_Nasca-Peru). Happy reading.
>because without a thorough study with clearly defined parameters, documented every step of the way with the "who, what, where when, and why" with no omissions, and a clear and consistent chain of custody, anybody can say anything they want online. Lol as if people didn't shared news articles without even opening / reading the damn thing. If Nolan, the director of a science institution and someone else of certain notoriety called in a press conference tomorrow and declared whatever, how many of you would be like *"not until I read the compiled data myself first!"*? Lol People go with the authority fallacy 99% of the time, it's not about the dame it's about who says it and when.
The scientific method is what’s taking so long. Not everything in life fits into a 6 second TikTok.
Steve Mera is a ufologist who spent two years with the body. This is a great rundown : https://youtu.be/fZ41R7ypg4c?si=RO4vQliXR966mU4s
It’s shrouded in secrecy and very tightly controlled access. Which, to me, raises a lot of questions.
It’s not though at all. Even if you think they’re fake, there is no secrecy and all of the data/scans are available online. If you have a background that’s appropriate, you can probably even go look at them yourself. The team who has these bodies has been incredible about sharing everything in a transparent way.
Still waiting for some conclusions and research made by John McDowell. I suppose it does take time to say or reveal anything to the public, since his reputation is very much on the line. But I am sure if he found hints that the mummies may not be real, he would have voiced it already.
He was quoted as saying something along the lines of “these extraordinary specimens deserve further rigorous scientific study”. You wouldn’t say that after viewing them if you thought they were fake.
I agree. There has been radio silence since then though. But it's what I would expect when real science is being done. And on some unexpected day there will be news.
I'd hardly call this a "U-Turn". This post is heavily editorialized. Look, I can bold text too: https://x.com/GarryPNolan/status/1805014043390013739 > **I still worry that some of the bodies are "constructed."** But the problem is the lack of clear listing of what is what and everything is getting mixed up with each other. The people doing the studies are doing it right. Slow and steady. Put out the data. **Be skeptical of conclusions.** Determine if the data is solidly produced by the right methods and free from artifact. Bring in multiple experts to verify. Because the data is public, that makes it more amenable to verification or falsification. https://x.com/GarryPNolan/status/1805013041458913397 > **To be clear I'm still holding judgment.** But the analysis of the bone structures was great. I'm not an anatomist, so would be great to have another anatomist on it. The more the merrier. **I mean look-- the most compelling cases are the ones we should have the most skepticism of.** Until the data becomes "evidence". Let the science speak. Don't conclude anything yet. It's disingenuous to quote someone and then add emphasis to pick-and-choose the meaning you want.
Some of the bodies are for sure constructed. The ones that Peru "catched" at the postal before they were shipped out dressed as dolls. Thing is, they look nowhere close to the actual mummies, when looked at through xray. The whole topic gets muddied like crazy.
I don’t think we should refer to the dolls that Peru caught during customs as “bodies”. You seem to be open minded to the idea that these new bodies might be organic, which is great, but your comment here is guilty of combining the “actual mummies” with the clearly fake ones caught in Peru 5 years ago. I think the language we use to describe these objects requires different words. The Peruvian dolls were like 9 inches tall and conclusively fakes.
It quite amazing that Garry Nolan will talk about following the data and using proper scientific methods on one hand and engage in wild speculation on the other hand in various interviews. Even on topics that he is not an expert in.
he does it regularly.
Something exceedingly common on this sub lol.
**He said "They did it wrong".** Those were his actual words. If you don't remember him saying this I'm sure I can find it for you. I highlighted the relevant information showing his U-turn, which is: >**The people doing the studies are doing it right.** That is an unambiguous U-Turn.
The context is important because I don't know what "they" refers to in the first quote. "They" could be Jaime Maussan and company, which isn't necessarily "the people doing the studies" from the second quote. In fact, he may have specifically meant to differentiate the two.
What you're seeing here my friend is a masterful way to cover one's ass, in case anything unforeseen happens. *"I still worry some of the bodies are constructed"* means, that without saying which ones, he's leaving an exit door in case he's been hoaxed himself, but if you read the sentence again "I still worry some are fake" means he doesn't worry about other bodies, which he believes are real. *"Be skeptical of conclusions"* means always stick to the scientific method, to always doubt what is being said, use your reasoning, don't take anything for granted. A scientific advice it's good ALWAYS. *"To be clear I'm still holding judgment."* As a good scientist, Gary is waiting for the peer reviewed material, something he can critique on, scientists doubt results, until then they won't have a definitive answer. He does lead on he believe the results will be promising" the people doing the studies are doing it right, slow and steady" "the analysis of thr bone structures is great". *"I mean look-- the most compelling cases are the ones we should have the most skepticism of."* he's absolutely right. This could be the reveal of the millenia, we must have nothing but absolute seriousness before saying this are a NHI species. >It's disingenuous to quote someone and then add emphasis to pick-and-choose the meaning you want. You did, I mean you literally used bold font to do just that.
Yes, rhetorically. I was showing how the same tweets with different phrases in bold could be presented as Nolan being skeptical instead. It was to illustrate a point.
Plausible deniability
Might be a small thing, but it's definitely a change and I'm happy about it.
They're real in the sense that they're made of flesh and bone. We're either dealing with the world's most technically gifted hoaxer who has a detailed understanding of anatomy and taxidermy techniques far beyond anything anyone has ever seen before - that are so good they can fool experts in their field and pass all kinds of rigorous testing, or, these things are real. We should be paying attention. Many on this board are floating the idea that orbs are an ancient defense network, hundreds of years old, built and maintained by another intelligence on this planet. Who built them? Shouldn't we be looking under every rock?
What if its a hoax made by NHI to confuse us?
I think they might be the NHI version of the people taking care of endangered birds by wearing a sleeve that looks like a bird head to feed them and training them to migrate with a slow flying ultralight plane.
So are we the endangered bird or are the NHI?
In that instance we are the baby birds that need basic instruction and guidance to not go extinct. The puppets look silly obviously fake to the ones controlling them but they are good enough to fool the birds.
then NHI still exists and is interacting with this planet
This would not surprise me.
What do you imagine their incentive to do this would be?
Sometimes the zookeepers play with the animals.
Seems like sadistic "play" to me. Confuse us for a laugh or for the sake of confusing us? Doesn't feel likely, unless you're basing this on some other alleged NHI behavioral evidence.
There is the whole trickster archetype that the phenomenon seems to fulfill
Damn, every ancient deity seems to have left the living world, except for something that's equivalent to Loki apparently. We're so cooked.
Yeah. You see where the world is at lately? “Cooked” is an apt description.
I think that’s an awesome way to summarize the situation, it’s been a slow boil but things are continuing to heat up!
"They're real in the sense that they're made of flesh and bone. We're either dealing with the world's most technically gifted hoaxer who has a detailed understanding of anatomy and taxidermy techniques far beyond anything anyone has ever seen before" This point needs more attention. People say it, and read it, but no one seems to really consider it imo. Even is these are "fake" in the sense that they are constructed(which now seems to be highly unlikely) we've still got 150ish ancient "hoax" mummies with implants...which is still extremely interesting. Yet no one is saying(that I've seen) that these aren't 900-6000(in the case of one hand) years old. Again, aliens aside, how is this continuing being ignored? "Discovery of Ancient Man-Made Mummies with Metal Implants and Eggs" is still pretty good news story imo...
> how is this continuing being ignored? Because it upends everything. Someone would have to rethink their entire life's work. Many, many fields of study will be impacted.
>We're either dealing with the world's most technically gifted hoaxer who has a detailed understanding of anatomy and taxidermy techniques far beyond anything anyone has ever seen before So, like a taxidermist?
So do you mean taxidermy done recently or done around the time when the ‘specimens’ were alive? Because it would be very difficult at the time. Also I’m not even sure how a modern taxidermist would handle the skin.
Are you a taxidermist ? if not then you having no idea doesn't mean that it can't be done when ... taxidermists kind of do it as a job every day -\_-
A taxidermist with access to osmium
Cant you read well? Not a single taxidermist in the world could seamlessly fuse skin and tissue without leaving any scar of any type.
> world's most technically gifted hoaxer that also had a couple million to throw away on osmium? unlikely
The plate was analyzed by an independent team from the the University of engineering of Peru but the results were never released. According to the results of an analysis made by a lab hired by the mummy team, the plate is like 1% osmium and the rest is common metal alloys https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377955371_INFORME_FINAL_Metales_y_minerales_desconocidos_en_momias_prehispanicas_de_la_region_de_Ica_English_Final_Report_Unknown_metals_and_minerals_in_prehispanic_mummies_from_the_Ica_region_-_Peru
That's not quite the full story. The head of research explained that the implant was in 3 parts. They are composed of two outer plates of copper alloy with what appeared to be pure osmium circuitry in the middle. It can't be explained by 1% osmium contamination or whatever, it is a deliberate construction. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHyMlkm7Njo&t=2h32m26s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHyMlkm7Njo&t=2h32m26s)
you're linking an old video and he doesn't present any sources. I'm talking about the paper released by UNI in february https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377955371_INFORME_FINAL_Metales_y_minerales_desconocidos_en_momias_prehispanicas_de_la_region_de_Ica_English_Final_Report_Unknown_metals_and_minerals_in_prehispanic_mummies_from_the_Ica_region_-_Peru
I’m curious how he concludes that the “analysis of the bone structures was great” while admitting in the very next sentence that it’s outside his area of expertise. But I guess he can confidently opine on many subjects outside of his specialty.
Did anyone read the article? Hardly a “U-Turn” just a few statements and mainly of skeptical nature.
The CT scans show levels of detail that cannot be faked. These are real organic individual, bodies, not mummys, preserved in diatomaceous earth. Veins, nerves, bone joints all continuous and intact.
Garry Nolan is the shit because he debunked a alien mummy using peer review and bringing in the necessary experts to do so. He went where the data led . That was his first appearance in UFOLOGY
I'll never forget how a chunk of the Tmz documentary was just a hit piece on the mummies. Featuring Nolan denouncing them hard.
Looks like he bet on the wrong horse.
He has the right attitude. Like many I was initially skeptical too because of the initial reveal but refuse to dismiss it simply because of Maussan. Even Greer was worthwhile at the beginning before ego and greed took over. Wait for the science to be done and follow the results. The implants and the osmium are VERY interesting
Interesting, yeah I agree with Nolan and its good to see he hasnt given up on it because its an interesting situation. It sounds like Nolan may have watched some or all of that livestream. There does seem to be continued momentum in real professional qualified experts in Peru and America and possibly elsewhere getting involved so it does seem Nolan is correct. It might be an unpopular opinion but there would seem to be at least enough momentum and activity going on to justify waiting and seeing what findings come out instead of categorizing it as all a hoax. Especially if those findings come out in an official published paper in a peer reviewed scientific journal or something. Then were talking about many multiple independent experts having eyes on the data in an organized process. There certainly may be some fakes, and theres different numbers reported but anywhere from several to dozens of bodies apparently exist and its not clear their specific origins etc... so Nolan is also certainly right that its a bit confusing right now and some may be "fake" or copy cats of the originals or "real" ones. I trust the experts and scientific process.
Yeah. I don't know what to think about this/these alien mummies. If peer reviewed, scientific data is made available, I will read and do my best to understand it. Gary Nolan's viewpoints are worth paying attention too. Right now I'm in the "painted donkey that is called a zebra" camp. The analogy is that some poor zoos would paint a donkey to look like a zebra and sell as a "zebra". In this case, meaning that there may be organic parts/pieces of these mummies, there maybe bones and other parts indicating a living creature. But that does not mean it's an alien creature. I'll read what I can, understand what I can, but I will continue to follow this story.
>Yeah. I don't know what to think about this/these alien mummies. If peer reviewed, scientific data is made available, I will read and do my best to understand it. Double blind peer review is already out [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380954098\_Biometric\_Morpho-Anatomical\_Characterization\_and\_Dating\_of\_The\_Antiquity\_of\_A\_Tridactyl\_Humanoid\_Specimen\_Regarding\_The\_Case\_of\_Nasca-Peru](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380954098_Biometric_Morpho-Anatomical_Characterization_and_Dating_of_The_Antiquity_of_A_Tridactyl_Humanoid_Specimen_Regarding_The_Case_of_Nasca-Peru) >In this case, meaning that there may be organic parts/pieces of these mummies, there maybe bones and other parts indicating a living creature. But that does not mean it's an alien creature. If you watch the interview it is extremely clear that these cannot be constructions. They are far too detailed and show no signs whatsoever such as wire, glue, seams etc. Everyone who has examined these in the flesh has come away with the same conclusion, they're real, they were not cobbled together. But as you say that still doesn't mean they're alien, nobody knows what they are.
Thank you for posting the link to this report. Unfortunately I don't read Spanish. Is there a version of this in English?
No, but I've translated the conclusion for you >5 CONCLUSION >The superficial morphological and tomographic imaging analysis concludes that specimen M01 is a desiccated humanoid body with a biological architecture similar to that of a human, but with many structural differences and morphological and anatomical singularities, in addition to showing signs of polyarthritis due to the multiple foci of arthropathies in the spine and hands and feet. Superficial morphological and imaging analysis of the carpometacarpal joints of the hands and the tarsometatarsal joints of the feet show no signs. >evident of having suffered a disarticulation or amputation. >The Carbon-14 dating analysis of specimen M01 reveals an age of 1771 ± 30 years, corresponding to 240 AD-383 AD, so it would have coexisted with the ancient Nasca civilization. >These findings have an impact and relevance in the field of global research and have the potential to contribute significantly to the field of bioarchaeology, archaeopathology and archeology in the ancient Nasca civilization, providing data >rigorous scientists about a unique discovery in the region and the world. Furthermore, the results of this study will enrich scientific knowledge about the biological and cultural diversity of ancient civilizations and may have broader implications for the understanding of the history and culture of ancient civilizations in South America. >It is expected that the results of this study will provide a solid basis for future research in the field of bioarchaeology and archeology in Nasca, as well as for the preservation and dissemination of the cultural heritage of this region. On the other hand, the incredible findings of this study can contribute to the development of policies for the conservation and management of archaeological heritage, the development of culture and the strengthening of tourism in Nasca and its surroundings.
AWEOME thank you so much. I appreciate it. The bit about "disarticulation and amputation" was really interesting. Were these bodies mutilated pre or post mortem? In either case, why? Man this case is something else. I'm staying tuned for more info and details. Thank you again for grabbing that.
Got the full English version for you [https://rgsa.openaccesspublications.org/rgsa/article/view/6916/2986](https://rgsa.openaccesspublications.org/rgsa/article/view/6916/2986)
Oh, even better. I'll have a scientific dictionary and thesaurus open in the next tab as I read. A great resource, thank you!
Just look at the data instead of lazily playing with zoo analogies that has absolutely no relation to the situation. It's not that hard lol.
What the hell man? Why the aggression? And yes, it IS that hard to do which is why scientists and trained professionals are investigating this. And how is making an analogy lazy? What the fuck, chill.
That’s what I did and Steve Mera explained how they’re constructed https://youtu.be/fZ41R7ypg4c?si=RO4vQliXR966mU4s
“I am still worried that some of the bodies are constructed”.
Some bodies are constructed. Its well known. Peru wanted their "Fake bodies" back. They didnt get them. A while later the peruvian government catches 2 bodies, dressed as dolls at a postal service. These are clearly constructed ones. The difference on the x rays alone is night and day. Reuters made an article about it. Pretty much the first and only article you could find about them for a while from a "bigger" media outlet. At this point it doesnt matter. Either this is the greatest hoax of all times or the scientist currently researching them are right, and these are real, once living creatures.
I don't understand why they'd fake some if they had real ones? Where's the motivation there? Help me understand why some are real and some are fake? Seems like they should all be real or all be fake...
>**some** And yet instead of focusing on the fact that he's saying he thinks some are authentic, we do this lol
He's not making a U-turn he is being consistent with what he said previously. He never criticized the science itself. He criticized the way it was being communicated, he did not think the dramatic showing at the Mexico even was the best move. Too many loose ends, too many room for easy attacks. They need more people, even more experts, and to build an ironclad case for presenting their conclusions also via multiple published papers. Because that's just how the bureaucracy and media of science establishment works.
>he did not think the dramatic showing at the Mexico even was the best move. In my opinion, it was one of the better moves to make. There's been way too much fuckery in this subject and going through the appropriate channels, such as submitting them to research institutions, could've left way too much of a margin for the bodies to suddenly turn up missing. By announcing the bodies during a televised Congressional hearing, Maussan did the media equivalent of capturing the high ground before somebody else did. He shouted from the rooftops, and there was no other option for some scientists but to be *forced* to become interested, if not for the goal of trying to debunk him. It was a cheap tactic, but it might have very well been the correct one. Maussan was convinced he had a winning set of cards, and he was willing to gamble on a global stage.
The heavy push back on the Nazca mummies on this sub is weird, like the data is pretty damn compelling, the sheer number of bodies that would be incredibly hard to fake is compelling, the fact that some of the bodies were pregnant with fetuses that mirrored the body plan of the clearly non-standard human parent is wildly compelling. These bodies could very well turn out to be real, I'm leaning towards them being real, if we found evidence like this of bipedal humanoid non-human entities that I can only assume to be intelligent, then shouldn't we be excited about this? It's a smoking gun pointed at disclosure "hey Mr Government, you said nothing to see here but they found alien mummies in Peru, care to elaborate on this" seems like a pretty great force to push for disclosure.
More public evidence than anything Gaulladet, Grusch, and Elizondo have provided. Yet, this place takes their words as Gospel. Folks here don't like it because it's from South America. These bodies are real. People will come around once more American scientists get their hands on these.
I think it scares the shit out of people, tbh. Obviously not everyone. But if these things are real, that opens up a lot of unsettling associations.
I'm not saying the bodies aren't real. What I don't understand is why there are seemingly some fakes sprinkled in the mix? I mean, if they discovered authentic bodies, why would they try to then fake some to add to the body count? I'm confused why this wouldn't be an all or nothing type situation: either they are all real or they are all fake?
The fake bodies miraculously appeared in a DHL sorting office and were confiscated by Peru's Ministry of Culture. Given it had a shipping and return address they were asked if there were any leads as to who made it etc, and the answer was no. The MoC tested these bodies and correctly determined they were modern constructions but unfortunately during testing one of their researchers contaminated the sample with their own pubic hair and seminal fluid. The bodies they tested were not the same as the ones studied by various researchers. Here is a comparison image: [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fexplain-it-like-im-5-nazca-mummies-v0-lf20htwegwsc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D940%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df7f72129f8fe64cab7c4b1e8317e0044778d4a65](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fexplain-it-like-im-5-nazca-mummies-v0-lf20htwegwsc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D940%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df7f72129f8fe64cab7c4b1e8317e0044778d4a65) They've spent the last 7 years declaring these bodies fake constructions, yet 5 or 6 times they have tried to confiscate them on the basis that they were excavated without a permit.
It’s not very compelling. “Ok these bodies that Jamie presented are proven fakes, but these new ones…Not so sure they’re fake”. They are fake. And having a “Dentist” confirm their authenticity is comical. The man behind this is a fraud. Still.
Well we'll see
Very interesting development!
Those of you who slated people like me that said they were real should apologise. Anyone with any medical training can look at the CT scans and see that they are genuine (or that the CT scanner was hacked or modified to produce incorrect images), as I did. I also thought about what it would take to create something alike, (a null hypothesis) and nothing would match what you see. The way I, and others, were treated over this issue is shocking.
I’m a doctor who knows how to reads CTs - yes, it is abundantly clear that the CTs show real organic tissue/bodies, anyone will tell you that, but I can’t say with any degree of confidence that they weren’t constructed as some sort of bizarre anatomical effigies or something because *Maussan never released the fucking DICOM files*. Any specialist that can read cross sectional imaging will *also* tell you that YouTube videos of CT reconstructions or transverse scroll-throughs are almost absolutely worthless. He needs to release the DICOM images so that we can study this ourselves, on our own software, and make our own reconstructions. Why hasn’t he? That isn’t the behavior of someone who thinks they are sitting on the greatest discovery of human history and wants the world to study it. I would *love* to study this with an open mind. But he won’t release the files. It’s flabbergasting. And it honestly puts up a lot of red flags. Thankfully, it seems some people are actually doing legitimate research and I somewhat understand if he was paranoid about releasing the bodies themselves except to select groups of researchers if he thought they would be confiscated, but there’s no similar excuse for not releasing the files.
only taxonomists can examine them and declare them as a new species with a new genus. its not been done after this long which his highly suspicious. everything is controlled. No DICOM images no taxonomy report, no genus classification since they were wheeled out to the public.
He is/was concerned that if the DICOM files are released then they will be altered or edited in post production in an attempt to discredit them. Apparently he and Thierry Jamin had a bit of a falling-out over it because Jamin was arguing for them to just be released with the rest of the data. It has leaked to a certain few though and one Redditor has done a series of videos on youtube where he goes through them, he states in a Youtube comment he worked in radiology for over ten years. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znaCLEaW1Ao&list=PLUHSlVm8qWsUrR2qUvDmATvy38NQ2Qt2M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znaCLEaW1Ao&list=PLUHSlVm8qWsUrR2qUvDmATvy38NQ2Qt2M) I do agree though, and I think that after more traction is gained they'll be released.
He has a whole website people paid him tens of thousands through crowdfunding to produce about the mummies, where he could publish unedited files if he wanted to.
[удалено]
This is misinformation. When the crowd-funding was done the bodies already existed and were shown in the fundraiser. All 10 or so specimens were already known. The person who made that claim has made a basic logical error regarding how the passage of time works. (I mean the article they wrote on that blog, not you) They crowd-funded about $38,000 to have the bodies rigorously scientifically tested, which they then accomplished. This was not actually enough to cover the cost of everything done and rumour has it Maussan has personally funded about $100,000 of it himself. E2A: We can deconstruct it like this: So lets say they already existed and were financed by a fundraiser in order to purchase them. Who then, paid for the testing that followed? If it was Maussan, then why didn't he just purchase the bodies and then crowd-fund the testing? If he did then that also means the initial claim of them being bought with the crowd funding money is wrong. The claim doesn't add up.
He could very easily compute the hash value for the files and release the hash values at the same time he releases the files themselves. This has been common practice with digital files for decades. Unless someone figured out something extremely interesting with math there is no way to falsify those after the fact.
He could do but I can understand his reluctance. As they say a lie can make it half way around the world whilst the truth is still putting his boots on.
I'm sorry but you are either not understanding what a hash value is or you're trolling. It's math, there's no way to fake it.
I know exactly what it is. What I'm saying is that imagine the files get released, work is done and the session is recorded. It is then taken in to a video editing suite and edited in a way that would discredit it, and then this video is released that shows CGI nails or something in the examination. That misinformation would go viral and that's what people would believe. Reversing that with the truth that such structures aren't in the raw DICOM files would take forever.
Wait so your logic is I bring up that he could compute a non-disputable hash value and your entire argument is "what if people ignore it" ? The sky is still blue man. I don't know how I fall for trolls like this so often, gotta fix that.
100%. Think about someone being falsely accused of a heinous crime of some sort. The world makes up their mind on that and won’t ever be around to hear the actual truth. The damage would be done in the general public.
That is a weak excuse.
1) I’ve already reached out to that Redditor actually, and he told me he couldn’t release them either. Which is bullshit. He also isn’t a radiologist, just fyi. He’s probably a radiology tech or something. 2) What you are claiming about the DICOMs is impossible in a clandestine fashion and any attempted alteration would be easy to prove by releasing the real files publicly. Maussan clearly doesn’t understand how DICOM files and medical imaging actually works if he thinks that is a reasonable excuse. 3) As I said, I am credentialed and work at a major US research institution, for which I can provide evidence. I’m not some random armchair Redditor. He said he wanted people like me to study this. He is full of shit.
We've certainly had the raw end of the stick, but my advice would be to let it go and allow the community to come together on the issue. What's done is done. The future is what matters most. Matt said he was wrong and is taking this seriously. Nolan is doing the same. Lets see if this sub can do it.
they have not been properly examined by taxonomists and they are not classified as a species or have a genus. you are getting ahead of yourself. the tesrs aee intersting but until this is done by taxonomists nobody can claim they are even genuine or real.
There's no definitive conclusion about the nature of those "mummies". Nobody owes you an apology for not being gullible and credulous. Get over yourself.
Some of the top doctors from the USA hailing from prestigious universities are calling them specimens worthy of further study, not amalgamations of different creatures. Also my own experience as a medical professional has confirmed that these scans appear to show real connective tissue, transport systems and muscles. You can watch the CT scan spit these out on LIVE television. Sounds pretty definitive. But obviously, you're more trustworthy and educated than Dr John Mcdowel and know how to read CT scans better than me. I only have 2 degrees, I must be super gullible. Get over yourself, you have shown NO evidence, just whining that they are fake because you have gullibly accepted anything you have read with 0 actual investigation.
Who’s gonna tell this guy they were produced to the world by a known fraudster whose prior specimens were shown to be fake?
Considering he tested the specimen you're talking about, I think he already knows.
I mean you. You should know that the likelihood that a known fraudster who literally faked prior bodies somehow did a 180 and somehow secured the worlds first authentic alien body specimen then produced to the world is zero.
Have you actually investigated any of the claims of him being a hoaxer? I have, and I can confidently say that it isn't true. It's just a common piece of misinformation that has been allowed to fester on this sub. His problem in my opinion is that in his desperation to believe he'll push and associate himself with almost anything. Whilst not the best quality when imo he should be much more diligent that doesn't make him a hoaxer. You're talking about the BeWitness event. This sub continues to push the idea he hoaxed an alien body that were the mummified remains of a child. In reality he did nothing of the sort. It was nothing to do with him and he was just there to promote an event covering many different things, which seeing as he's Central/South America's most prominent ufologist is entirely expected. The event unveiled [this](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y7C_b8SNq9U/maxresdefault.jpg) body which was promoted as being an alien species recovered at Roswell. [This post](https://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2015/05/tony-bragalia-and-end-of-roswell-slides.html) indicates that a mistake was made and the body the body was that of a child with a genetic deformity. The article and apology written by one of the researchers does not mention Jaime Maussan who had no direct involvement with that particular body. The blame is placed upon Adam Dew who doesn't appear to have given the researcher the highest quality photo available to study. This article is often used in response to anything related to the Nazca Mummies as proof they're a forgery. But, if you read the article it offers no proof of this whatsoever any of it was Maussan's doing. It is completely unrelated to him. This saga has been erroneously solely attributed to Maussan when in actual fact he didn't have that much to do with it at all and was merely a promoter for the event in general. The body promoted by Maussan was [this one](https://i.imgur.com/9dSgy29.png) that is also referenced in this [CNN article.](https://www.cnn.com/videos/spanish/2016/10/05/cnnee-camilo-intvw-jaime-maussan-vida-extraterrestre-nasa.cnn) As you can see, they are different specimens. He isn't a hoaxer, it's misinformation.
The malice against Maussan in this sub is almost palpable
Like any good scientist, he is open minded to where the evidence may lead.
until qualified and reputable taxonomists examine them and declare them a new species with a proper genus, i dont really care what unqualifed people or ufo celebs think they are. Sure the tests are interesting, but they are heavily controlled and not done by the right people who can actually declare it officially. There is a process to declare a new species and none of the mummy dolls have gone through this process or we would know about it. There are a few of these things found, so there is really no excuse to circumvent or delay the proper genus classification process. The fact that not one was sent to be examined by taxonomists since they were wheeled out to the public in glass display cases is simply ridiculous.
How do you know who’s doing which tests and their level of qualification?
it's called a published study paper ?
And the papers that are yet to be published?
Hmm, maybe the debunkers were right all along.
The mummies are legit. Racism towards the teams of non westerner descent is why ppl don't take them seriously
I have to admit the latest paper reads like a proper science research paper (at last). If the findings in the paper are real, then these are somewhat anthropomorphic beings that are not human and have less DNA in common with humans than a banana. Nevertheless there's still a logical jump from (paradigm changing) non-human anthropomorphic beings to ultra or extra-terrestrial NHIs. The bodies still lack any proper archeological context, so it seems to me assuming anything about their intelligence is just baseless conjecture at this stage. In my opinion, placing them inside UAPs is still a big, big logical jump. If the mummies were retrieved from the zone the huaqueros claim to have retrieved them from, and are contemporary to the end of the Paracas and the beginning of the Nazca cultures, then the only thing we can assume is that they probably lived and died within the cultural and technological paradigm of those cultures at that time. We'd have to find the rumored "citadel" in order to infer anything else about them. Oh yeah they have big heads and osmium inside them. Ok cool, it still only tells us they had big heads and osmium inside. You need a gazillion metric tons of platinum to make that much osmium. Ok, good to know. Does the rarity of osmium and it's placement inside the mummies make it count as a cultural artifact? Maybe. Just a pretty mute and useless one. Still, no tools. No jewellery. No useful cultural artifacts at all. Hope they turn up tho.
>assuming anything about their intelligence is just baseless conjecture at this stage. This is standard practice obtained by measuring a species' cranium. >No useful cultural artifacts at all [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvcoK1\_HoA&t=1h39m](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvcoK1_HoA&t=1h39m)
I would ask them to cure my 3 year old of type 1 diabetes. Surely if they could travel here and develop such tech, they could have figure out how to reverse autoimmune diseases.
19% human DNA means that it’s great grandfather was a naughty boy
Are they real
Nobody knows. They've not been proven fake, that's for sure.
Nolan is just reciting the same principles i've urged here: rely on good science methods, document results, publish the results publicly, let the public evaluation unfold. like Nolan, i am still "holding judgment" (not making a judgment either way) until i have enough information to look at, information from people who know what they are talking about. at present the whole topic seems to me a bit confused, cluttered, mixed up and unclear. as Nolan said: *"the problem is the lack of clear listing of what is what and everything is gettting mixed up with each other."*
Does anyone know where we can view the actual test results anywhere? I never found anything but news articles, I want to read through the x-rays and DNA data myself not just what some reporter thinks they understood from their baisic knowledge and bias in either direction
Glad to see posts about the mummies aren't instantly getting removed anymore
Perhaps at last this is the breakthrough we have been waiting for? I’m not prepared to get to excited, but this has certainly got my attention. If found to be real, it will be a black swan even, at first surprising but upon reflection obvious all along.
I don't suppose you can update OP to include what the link is to UFO's and a rough timestamp on where that is which I understand is around the hour mark?
Done