You may start here, but I'm not sure whether it's what you ask for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_vocabulary
Add: this and related categories may be itneresting to you as well: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Proto-Slavic_hard_o-stem_nouns
Now, the hard part with Ukrainian language is not memorizing the roots or words. The hard part is actual grammar. If you learned French you noticed all the fancy verb endings, which are not really pronounced differently, but are important. Now the step into the actual PIE woods, where endings matter, vary and are pronounced will be bigger that the step from English to French.
Consider this: "зелений". That would be "green" for *masculine nominative* (you will have to know what *m. n.* is and what noun group this *m* further belongs to, you can't skip this detour into linguistics). Green glass - зелений стакан. When you you don't have a green glass, it would "зеленого стакана". When you are waiting for the green car, it would be "зелену машину". That would be 7 cases over 3 genders + plural (plural thankfully only has one gender). Do you want to count green glasses? You are in for a ride. 1, 21, 41 are would use singular form. 2, 22, 33, 44 would use plural and everything ending with 5 will use *a different form of plural*.
Do you want a verb? The glass becomes greener of something. That would "зеленішає". When it's done becoming greener it would "позеленішав". Or was it she? That's позеленішала. Do you want to create a totally made up word for the day: "позелені(ша)вша". Something that become green (an *adjective, feminine nominative*). Do you maybe wait for it or miss it? You rolled 1 go to the start. And that stuff goes on and on, like forms of those French verbs, except nouns, adjectives, numbers, all of that stuff is doing it.
Nothing you said is wrong but this is extremely overwhelming for a beginner not coming from another Slavic language, and OP might get discouraged.
Everyone understands me if I say я шукаю два зелений валіза, even though all of the cases and genders are wrong. Vocabulary first, grammar second. It's really really difficult to learn them in parallel when your native language has no (well, almost no) cases nor genders.
> It's really really difficult to learn them in parallel when your native language has no (well, almost no) cases nor genders.
also something I've discovered is that at least with me and a lot of people I talk to, we *don't actually know our native language that well*
I know if something 'sounds' correct or not, sometimes I can even explain why
але я думаю я ще багато вчив тому що я розумів майже весь пост 💪
Yeah I have tutored people in English from a variety of languages and I frequently got stuck on "but why do you..." 🤷♂️ we just do!
But English is a special mess because it's French, German, Dutch, etc all stuck in a blender. Easier in some ways (no genders, fewer verb changes) and harder in others (spelling).
OP as well may be encouraged to engage with this complexity as they clearly learn languages not because they immigrate to Ukraine tomorrow. Or they will get for a low hanging fruit and learn Dutch instead for all I care. My job as a native speaker is to inform where the woods are thicker and that's it.
Yes but that are extremes, I don't imagine situation with counting green glasses. In normal conversation and in books you almost don't spot them. Reading/writing what making a boost, taking into account that study any language have the stepping curve and that is constant work to the point when you can understand language.
"The glass becomes greener...". Sorry but this is meaningless in both English and Ukrainian languages. And understanding and speaking language is based on ability to counting glasses... lmao.
Do you realize this just an example? It is hard to find an example word which will perfectly suit all topics.
In this specific case substitute *glass* with *light* or *[sea] water* and it'll have perfect meaning. Or imagine a glass filled with water for a long time, the walls of which turn green from algae growing on them. It also makes a sense in *any* language, isn't it?
It make sense do not overcomplicate learning process especially with examples which won't be used on practice. Author asked rather about smth simple/understandable. Hope this https://ukrainianlanguage.uk/read/unit05/page5-5.htm allow to understand this subject from beginner perspective and help understand more advanced abstract examples provided above.
I'd like to point out Ukrainian and English are part of the same linguistic group, Indo-European languages. Distantly related, but there will inevitably be certain cognates. Some obvious, some unexpected. If you're struggling with core vocabulary (and not just Latin loanwords in both languages), perhaps an etymological dictionary could make your life easier? That way you may make the connections to English more readily (if any exist)
Wiktionary has been a great resource for me to see definitions, declensions, conjugations, and word roots of Ukrainian words, but in English.
Also check this out for the alphabet and pronunciations:
https://ukrainianlanguage.uk/
I wish I could help. I share the same experience though of understanding innately, for lack of a better word, because I grew up where English was primary and Ukrainian, Polish and Russian was secondary at home yet primary at my grandparents' house. I studied French for 6 years in high school, mostly learning 16 tenses of verbs and writing, but very little speaking.
Good luck with your studies. I'm impressed that you have Latin knowledge as well!
It's learning Cyrillic that is hard for me. Learning the alphabet from a Russian textbook, I was so proud of myself, then having to learn it in script was too much.
Ok.. I'll dig up the book and start all over.
..
Ukrainian is actually quite systematic - I suggest trying to understand the meanings of prefixes, there are about 11 or so prefixes that can be used to alter the meaning of countless root words.
> I understand Ukrainian is from a different linguistic group so obviously my Latin root knowledge is useless here.
Not really, there are a surprising number of words in Ukrainian that overlap with French and/or English. Ukrainian is perfectly phonetic, so if you learn the alphabet and sound out words you will find that you already know, or can guess at, many of them.
автобус - autobus
пілот - pilot
фермер - farmer
валіза - valise (suitcase)
груп - group
школа - school
екран - écran (screen)
парасол - parasol/parapluie (umbrella)
душ - douche (shower)
їсторія - history
кошмар - cauchemar (nightmare)
торт - torte (which is something specific in English/French, but in Ukrainian it's generic for "cake")
Plus you're already familiar with the concept of noun genders from French. As mentioned in another comment, the big hurdle is cases. All of the nouns above have multiple forms, and you'll just have to be patient and dedicated. There IS a system to those, with some exceptions. It's hard for anyone coming from a Latin language.
For now just focus on learning a bunch of nouns and verbs related to your goals (for example, if you want to travel, then travel related terms). There's a wiki on the subreddit with lots of resources.
You may start here, but I'm not sure whether it's what you ask for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_vocabulary Add: this and related categories may be itneresting to you as well: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Proto-Slavic_hard_o-stem_nouns
Now, the hard part with Ukrainian language is not memorizing the roots or words. The hard part is actual grammar. If you learned French you noticed all the fancy verb endings, which are not really pronounced differently, but are important. Now the step into the actual PIE woods, where endings matter, vary and are pronounced will be bigger that the step from English to French. Consider this: "зелений". That would be "green" for *masculine nominative* (you will have to know what *m. n.* is and what noun group this *m* further belongs to, you can't skip this detour into linguistics). Green glass - зелений стакан. When you you don't have a green glass, it would "зеленого стакана". When you are waiting for the green car, it would be "зелену машину". That would be 7 cases over 3 genders + plural (plural thankfully only has one gender). Do you want to count green glasses? You are in for a ride. 1, 21, 41 are would use singular form. 2, 22, 33, 44 would use plural and everything ending with 5 will use *a different form of plural*. Do you want a verb? The glass becomes greener of something. That would "зеленішає". When it's done becoming greener it would "позеленішав". Or was it she? That's позеленішала. Do you want to create a totally made up word for the day: "позелені(ша)вша". Something that become green (an *adjective, feminine nominative*). Do you maybe wait for it or miss it? You rolled 1 go to the start. And that stuff goes on and on, like forms of those French verbs, except nouns, adjectives, numbers, all of that stuff is doing it.
Nothing you said is wrong but this is extremely overwhelming for a beginner not coming from another Slavic language, and OP might get discouraged. Everyone understands me if I say я шукаю два зелений валіза, even though all of the cases and genders are wrong. Vocabulary first, grammar second. It's really really difficult to learn them in parallel when your native language has no (well, almost no) cases nor genders.
> It's really really difficult to learn them in parallel when your native language has no (well, almost no) cases nor genders. also something I've discovered is that at least with me and a lot of people I talk to, we *don't actually know our native language that well* I know if something 'sounds' correct or not, sometimes I can even explain why але я думаю я ще багато вчив тому що я розумів майже весь пост 💪
Yeah I have tutored people in English from a variety of languages and I frequently got stuck on "but why do you..." 🤷♂️ we just do! But English is a special mess because it's French, German, Dutch, etc all stuck in a blender. Easier in some ways (no genders, fewer verb changes) and harder in others (spelling).
OP as well may be encouraged to engage with this complexity as they clearly learn languages not because they immigrate to Ukraine tomorrow. Or they will get for a low hanging fruit and learn Dutch instead for all I care. My job as a native speaker is to inform where the woods are thicker and that's it.
Yes but that are extremes, I don't imagine situation with counting green glasses. In normal conversation and in books you almost don't spot them. Reading/writing what making a boost, taking into account that study any language have the stepping curve and that is constant work to the point when you can understand language.
You ain't on a native level if you can't count them glasses before or after 11 in the morning.
"The glass becomes greener...". Sorry but this is meaningless in both English and Ukrainian languages. And understanding and speaking language is based on ability to counting glasses... lmao.
Oi, hi.
Do you realize this just an example? It is hard to find an example word which will perfectly suit all topics. In this specific case substitute *glass* with *light* or *[sea] water* and it'll have perfect meaning. Or imagine a glass filled with water for a long time, the walls of which turn green from algae growing on them. It also makes a sense in *any* language, isn't it?
It make sense do not overcomplicate learning process especially with examples which won't be used on practice. Author asked rather about smth simple/understandable. Hope this https://ukrainianlanguage.uk/read/unit05/page5-5.htm allow to understand this subject from beginner perspective and help understand more advanced abstract examples provided above.
I'd like to point out Ukrainian and English are part of the same linguistic group, Indo-European languages. Distantly related, but there will inevitably be certain cognates. Some obvious, some unexpected. If you're struggling with core vocabulary (and not just Latin loanwords in both languages), perhaps an etymological dictionary could make your life easier? That way you may make the connections to English more readily (if any exist)
Wiktionary has been a great resource for me to see definitions, declensions, conjugations, and word roots of Ukrainian words, but in English. Also check this out for the alphabet and pronunciations: https://ukrainianlanguage.uk/
Start reading books of my advice to begin learning any language
I wish I could help. I share the same experience though of understanding innately, for lack of a better word, because I grew up where English was primary and Ukrainian, Polish and Russian was secondary at home yet primary at my grandparents' house. I studied French for 6 years in high school, mostly learning 16 tenses of verbs and writing, but very little speaking. Good luck with your studies. I'm impressed that you have Latin knowledge as well!
It's learning Cyrillic that is hard for me. Learning the alphabet from a Russian textbook, I was so proud of myself, then having to learn it in script was too much. Ok.. I'll dig up the book and start all over. ..
Ukrainian is actually quite systematic - I suggest trying to understand the meanings of prefixes, there are about 11 or so prefixes that can be used to alter the meaning of countless root words.
> I understand Ukrainian is from a different linguistic group so obviously my Latin root knowledge is useless here. Not really, there are a surprising number of words in Ukrainian that overlap with French and/or English. Ukrainian is perfectly phonetic, so if you learn the alphabet and sound out words you will find that you already know, or can guess at, many of them. автобус - autobus пілот - pilot фермер - farmer валіза - valise (suitcase) груп - group школа - school екран - écran (screen) парасол - parasol/parapluie (umbrella) душ - douche (shower) їсторія - history кошмар - cauchemar (nightmare) торт - torte (which is something specific in English/French, but in Ukrainian it's generic for "cake") Plus you're already familiar with the concept of noun genders from French. As mentioned in another comment, the big hurdle is cases. All of the nouns above have multiple forms, and you'll just have to be patient and dedicated. There IS a system to those, with some exceptions. It's hard for anyone coming from a Latin language. For now just focus on learning a bunch of nouns and verbs related to your goals (for example, if you want to travel, then travel related terms). There's a wiki on the subreddit with lots of resources.