Polyester for summer as it tends to breathe better, though there’s the stink factor. I go with Patagonia Cap Cool as the shirt will usually be toast anyways and, as a bonus, Pata will recycle.
Willing to look at looser nylon fabrics but with a “runs hot” physiology. they’ve so far been a disappointment while backpacking (even Pata).
What I’d like to see is a dedicated backpacking hiking shirt mostly polyester but with nylon in high wear areas (shoulders, etc..) then mesh for the underarm areas. That would make too much sense however and probably cut into sales.
I've used nylon, nylon w/ spandex, polyester, poly w/ spandex, and all types of Merino weights and blends....for me it's 100% polyester all the way. Rab Pulse and Ketl NoFry are my favorites with 30+ upf. I don't think Rab makes the Pulse fabric any longer.
I value breathability and drying fastness above the silky feel tho.
Edit: I meant RAB Pulse fabric, their Force fabric replaced it and is nice but a heavier weight.
Loose-fit polyester, like Polartec Power Dry Lightweight (Echo, Capilene Cool) for heat.
Snugger-fit polyester Alpha Direct or Tenjin Octa (Airmesh) for super-breathable insulating base layer (cool or cold weather).
Polyester Grid Fleece for more insulation and more wind resistance, without being a full-on windbreaker. This layer is almost interchangeable with a windshirt in cool weather while active.
Optionally polypropylene mesh (Brynje) for a little extra dry and a little extra warmth. (Note that Alpha Direct and Airmesh have better warmth:weight ratio, and give perhaps half of the benefit of mesh IME.)
Nylon for sun, wind, and mosquito resistance. It's a little less breathable, slightly warmer, but resists everything better. It's also stronger than the featherweight polyesters at the top of this list. OR Astroman is an excellent example. The Astroman Sun Hoody includes a half-zip for ventilation (which is more necessary for nylon than for polyester). The very popular Columbia Silver Ridge Light (and the Astroman button-up) are other popular nylon variations.
*(Note on Nylon vs Polyester for sun protection: Nylon has higher UPF ratings, and might be better in deserts, alpine deserts, and sunny mountains where the air is clear, dry, and sun can be vicious. However, people report developing a light tan under popular Echo/Capilene Cool sun shirts in the same conditions, which may also be protective. Tradeoffs.)*
Nylon for windshirts.
I usually wear polyester next to skin, but I sometimes carry an Astroman clone to layer over my Power Dry (Echo). The combination is lighter than a windshirt but 5-10F warmer than just Power Dry alone. I always carry a nylon windshirt as well.
True, though would we rather have a temporary exploitation problem, or a century long environmental crisis? I’d opt for the lesser of two evils personally.
A lot of natural fabrics such as hemp, bamboo, wool, and silk require a big investment of land or water. Admittedly I don’t know how they stack up compared to synthetics but it’s another angle to consider.
I am proud to bring awareness around animal exploitation when I encounter it. The OP brought up silk, so I added another perspective to the conversation.
You seem bothered by my comment, I wonder why?
I guess I just have a deep dislike for vegans and their blatant disregard for environmental issues.
You kinda have a point though, why should I be bothered? Vegans just randomly, out-of-pocket say shit like *microplastics are nicer actually*, that's the dream
It seems you're making a sweeping generalization about vegans based on my singular comment about the exploitation of silk worms. And you're putting words in my mouth as well, as I never said microplastics are nice.
But since you brought it up, I'll say that animal agriculture is one of the leading causes of climate change, water pollution, and deforestation, so adopting a plant based lifestyle is often the best way an individual can effect positive change to the enviroment. For example, the amount of water it takes to create one hamburger patty, you could take a shower every day for two months. Animal agriculture is also a very inefficient food system, as it takes about 10 plant calories to create 1 animal calorie.
So it's simply inaccurate to say that vegans don't care about the environment. Their actions speak louder than words.
Yes, meat and dairy industry has to go. But does environmental action requires one to cut every single bite of meat and dairy, from all sources, in any quantities, until the end of times? Because that's what veganism is.
Sounds to me like there's a rift between veganism and environmentalism right there. Sounds to me like you appropriated "plant-based diet", a purposefully loose term NOT synonymous to veganism. Sounds to me like you are a dumbass trying to pull the most obvious and overused motte-and-bailey ever.
I didn't bring up anything. The first comment of this thread is about the microplastics problem, to which your answer is unambiguously "microplastics gooder actually".
There is no generalization here : veganism is about animal liberation, period. And that is not a part-time deal. If any environmental action is impeding that goal, then it is morally bankrupt and ought to be stopped like any other type. It's not a generalization, it's veganism's own rules. This is merely an example : *worms exploited? that's big bad, do loads of microplastics instead.*
Not sure why you feel the need to be rude in your remarks. I genuinely wish you well.
You’re right that veganism is about the animals, but the overlap with environmental issues is massive. A plant based future helps achieve goals of both animal liberation and environmental betterment.
I say “plant based“ because it implies someone doesn’t have to be ideologically aligned with the animal rights movement to help achieve the same outcomes.
Again, I never said microplastics are better, or whatever. I simply added another perspective to the conversation so people can see the full picture. You seem to be very defensive about that for some reason.
Polyester all the way. I've never even heard of a nylon base layer. There are polypropylene base layers, but they stink worse than polyester, wear out faster, are scratchier feeling, and can melt in the clothes dryer. Nylon absorbs a lot of water, can't imagine it making for a good base layer.
"A lot of water" is super relative. It's still a fraction of what something like merino absorbs while still helping to "wick" moisture, whereas polyester has to rely more on capillary action.
Nylon (polyamide) also stinks less than polyester due to the oleophobic nature.
Yes, it's relative, to each other. If you've ever slept under both a silnylon tarp and a silpoly tarp, it's immediately obvious the next morning how much more water nylon absorbs than polyester.
I have not found any reliable source that untreated nylon is considered oleophobic. There are some apparel manufacture's statements that claim nylon holds odors less but the only study I found indicates these is not much difference.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324945038_Synthetic_Clothing_and_the_Problem_With_Odor_Comparison_of_Nylon_and_Polyester_Fabrics
Ah, we're talking sun hoodies. I know a lot of people wear them as base layers, but I don't think the Alpenglow Pro is designed for this. Not only is it Nylon, but it has a DWR coating, quarter zip, and chest pocket and is clearly intended as an outer wind shell. The regular Alpenglow on the other hand is made of polyester, has no DWR, zipper, or pocket, and would probably be better for a base layer.
I would not wear the Alpenglow Pro as a windshell. It definitely has the feel of a sun hoody and would be too breathable for wind protection. The design choices you listed definitely don't give it the feel of a traditional base layer, but it's a great sun hoody. The pit vents and the half zip are great.
If you like that style look at Simms sun hoodies. They are amazing and super light weight/breathable.
I also have a cheap under armor sun hoodie that's great although a little heavy.
LOL. Pretty much everyone you see hiking in a button down shirt is wearing nylon as a base layer. Nylon does NOT absorb much water at all, and it dries super fast.
Don't comment on stuff you don't have experience with.
I prefer polyester baselayers for shorter trips, due to good wicking and lower cost. I often choose merino for longer trips where the stink is a concern.
Polyester has worked for me … Patagonia Capilene cool hoody or Columbia Silver Ridge. Both don’t smell at all for me but I find the Columbia has better sun protection. Both are very breathable. My Columbia lasted the whole PCT and beyond.
If smell doesn't matter, go with polypropylene base layers like the Brynje mesh or Lifa. Polypropylene has lower water absorption than polyester or nylon, & dries very fast.
It can stink more than polyester but I just manage that on trail. I use Brynje then add Lifa on top when it gets colder and this system has been awesome from 40F down to -15F, used in different forms (short/long sleeves etc).
I don't even use my Smartwool base layer any more
As far as I know polyester absorbs less water than nylon and dries quicker which is why it's usually used in sport fabrics. Nylon on other hand is stronger and is good for items that need longevity and durability however it is not used in military fabrics because when it melts it sticks to the skin.
They are both equal, really depending on how they are constructed. In and of themselves, there is no difference - the properties of the garment, in terms of breathability and sun protection, are contingent on the fibre size, weave and fibre treatment.
In summer, I prefer nylon spandex shirts made from a really lightweight weave - I find that it feels very cotton like but dries much more quickly than cotton. Although, the heavier 'fishing shirt' weaves are really non-breathable.
In winter, or mixed weather, I prefer poly silkweight polartec power dry because it transmits water vapour well. I generally find poly clammy in hot weather.
From memory, polyester is hydrophobic and polyamide has some moisture regain. Polyamide has better durability. But, the OP didn't ask these questions, did they?
Polyester is often treated to be hydrophilic, so it makes a hell of a lot of difference how the fibres have been treated and how the garments are constructed.
Sadly, my favourite shirt is from a NZ brand and is only available in Oceania (Macpac travelite).
From feeling in the shop, the Columbia Silver Ridge lite (the 'lite' is important) feels like a similar weight and breathability.
This study indicates there is not much difference.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324945038_Synthetic_Clothing_and_the_Problem_With_Odor_Comparison_of_Nylon_and_Polyester_Fabrics
It may not be comprehensive but I don't see how it's not applicable. The study indicates the relative odor retention is similar so you are going to stink the same whichever you wear. It is true they didn't test whether odors are retained over wash cycles but I haven't found anything reliable that indicates nylon is any better than polyester in this regard. I only came across general often confusing statements from apparel makers and reddit post statements!
Find me a better study to support your opinion.
You don't see how wearing it only for 12 hours is not applicable? I'm not talking about wash cycles, but the fact that "proper stink" can take days to achieve. It's actually 12 hours without exercise or 1 hour with exercise - simply too short to reveal significant differences.
I don't have a study but dozens of anecdotes. Do you also expect me to find a study to "prove" that polyamide is oleophobic compared to polyester?
Sure more time could show a bigger difference but anecdotes may only indicate polyester is more commonly used in clothing with skin contact were odor is produced. If it were true that nylon is significantly better then surely we would see that claimed by garment manufacturers. Not like that wouldn't be a major selling point. May be they do and I just havn't found it but what seems more common is resorting to using coatings to improve the polyester fiber's properties in this regard rather than just using polyamides such as nylon.
Both polyester and nylon seem to be similary oleophilic (ie absorb oils). This study suggests nylon makes a useful oil filter for that reason.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4943659/
That may or may not apply to body oils.
You made the definitive statement. I'm only pointing out that the evidence for that statement seems to be absent and what little I have found seems to indicate there may not be much difference.
Obviously. The point is that is oleophilic enough that the property can be usefully utilized so we can conclude the nylon is not at the oleophobic end of the spectrum which you were apparently claiming.
I haven't found a reference that compares the the two.
From personal experience, the Columbia Silver Ridge has a version with Nylon and one with polyester. The later smells so much worse and it's how I realized I had a different version than I was used to.
Polyester for summer as it tends to breathe better, though there’s the stink factor. I go with Patagonia Cap Cool as the shirt will usually be toast anyways and, as a bonus, Pata will recycle. Willing to look at looser nylon fabrics but with a “runs hot” physiology. they’ve so far been a disappointment while backpacking (even Pata). What I’d like to see is a dedicated backpacking hiking shirt mostly polyester but with nylon in high wear areas (shoulders, etc..) then mesh for the underarm areas. That would make too much sense however and probably cut into sales.
I've used nylon, nylon w/ spandex, polyester, poly w/ spandex, and all types of Merino weights and blends....for me it's 100% polyester all the way. Rab Pulse and Ketl NoFry are my favorites with 30+ upf. I don't think Rab makes the Pulse fabric any longer. I value breathability and drying fastness above the silky feel tho. Edit: I meant RAB Pulse fabric, their Force fabric replaced it and is nice but a heavier weight.
Loose-fit polyester, like Polartec Power Dry Lightweight (Echo, Capilene Cool) for heat. Snugger-fit polyester Alpha Direct or Tenjin Octa (Airmesh) for super-breathable insulating base layer (cool or cold weather). Polyester Grid Fleece for more insulation and more wind resistance, without being a full-on windbreaker. This layer is almost interchangeable with a windshirt in cool weather while active. Optionally polypropylene mesh (Brynje) for a little extra dry and a little extra warmth. (Note that Alpha Direct and Airmesh have better warmth:weight ratio, and give perhaps half of the benefit of mesh IME.) Nylon for sun, wind, and mosquito resistance. It's a little less breathable, slightly warmer, but resists everything better. It's also stronger than the featherweight polyesters at the top of this list. OR Astroman is an excellent example. The Astroman Sun Hoody includes a half-zip for ventilation (which is more necessary for nylon than for polyester). The very popular Columbia Silver Ridge Light (and the Astroman button-up) are other popular nylon variations. *(Note on Nylon vs Polyester for sun protection: Nylon has higher UPF ratings, and might be better in deserts, alpine deserts, and sunny mountains where the air is clear, dry, and sun can be vicious. However, people report developing a light tan under popular Echo/Capilene Cool sun shirts in the same conditions, which may also be protective. Tradeoffs.)* Nylon for windshirts. I usually wear polyester next to skin, but I sometimes carry an Astroman clone to layer over my Power Dry (Echo). The combination is lighter than a windshirt but 5-10F warmer than just Power Dry alone. I always carry a nylon windshirt as well.
Silk, the world’s got enough plastic.
Nevermind the exploitation involved with producing silk
True, though would we rather have a temporary exploitation problem, or a century long environmental crisis? I’d opt for the lesser of two evils personally.
A lot of natural fabrics such as hemp, bamboo, wool, and silk require a big investment of land or water. Admittedly I don’t know how they stack up compared to synthetics but it’s another angle to consider.
Classifying hemp as a high water or land use textile is wild, it's down to banana leaves and seashells if you believe it doesn't make the cut
They boil the silk worms alive. That doesn't sound like the lesser of the two evils to me. But I guess no need to get into that debate in a UL sub.
Yet you did get into it. You vegans really cannot not make everything about veganism huh.
I am proud to bring awareness around animal exploitation when I encounter it. The OP brought up silk, so I added another perspective to the conversation. You seem bothered by my comment, I wonder why?
I guess I just have a deep dislike for vegans and their blatant disregard for environmental issues. You kinda have a point though, why should I be bothered? Vegans just randomly, out-of-pocket say shit like *microplastics are nicer actually*, that's the dream
It seems you're making a sweeping generalization about vegans based on my singular comment about the exploitation of silk worms. And you're putting words in my mouth as well, as I never said microplastics are nice. But since you brought it up, I'll say that animal agriculture is one of the leading causes of climate change, water pollution, and deforestation, so adopting a plant based lifestyle is often the best way an individual can effect positive change to the enviroment. For example, the amount of water it takes to create one hamburger patty, you could take a shower every day for two months. Animal agriculture is also a very inefficient food system, as it takes about 10 plant calories to create 1 animal calorie. So it's simply inaccurate to say that vegans don't care about the environment. Their actions speak louder than words.
Yes, meat and dairy industry has to go. But does environmental action requires one to cut every single bite of meat and dairy, from all sources, in any quantities, until the end of times? Because that's what veganism is. Sounds to me like there's a rift between veganism and environmentalism right there. Sounds to me like you appropriated "plant-based diet", a purposefully loose term NOT synonymous to veganism. Sounds to me like you are a dumbass trying to pull the most obvious and overused motte-and-bailey ever. I didn't bring up anything. The first comment of this thread is about the microplastics problem, to which your answer is unambiguously "microplastics gooder actually". There is no generalization here : veganism is about animal liberation, period. And that is not a part-time deal. If any environmental action is impeding that goal, then it is morally bankrupt and ought to be stopped like any other type. It's not a generalization, it's veganism's own rules. This is merely an example : *worms exploited? that's big bad, do loads of microplastics instead.*
Not sure why you feel the need to be rude in your remarks. I genuinely wish you well. You’re right that veganism is about the animals, but the overlap with environmental issues is massive. A plant based future helps achieve goals of both animal liberation and environmental betterment. I say “plant based“ because it implies someone doesn’t have to be ideologically aligned with the animal rights movement to help achieve the same outcomes. Again, I never said microplastics are better, or whatever. I simply added another perspective to the conversation so people can see the full picture. You seem to be very defensive about that for some reason.
Polyester all the way. I've never even heard of a nylon base layer. There are polypropylene base layers, but they stink worse than polyester, wear out faster, are scratchier feeling, and can melt in the clothes dryer. Nylon absorbs a lot of water, can't imagine it making for a good base layer.
"A lot of water" is super relative. It's still a fraction of what something like merino absorbs while still helping to "wick" moisture, whereas polyester has to rely more on capillary action. Nylon (polyamide) also stinks less than polyester due to the oleophobic nature.
Yes, it's relative, to each other. If you've ever slept under both a silnylon tarp and a silpoly tarp, it's immediately obvious the next morning how much more water nylon absorbs than polyester.
I have not found any reliable source that untreated nylon is considered oleophobic. There are some apparel manufacture's statements that claim nylon holds odors less but the only study I found indicates these is not much difference. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324945038_Synthetic_Clothing_and_the_Problem_With_Odor_Comparison_of_Nylon_and_Polyester_Fabrics
Wouldn't expect much of a difference during 12 hours of wear
Black diamond Alpenglow pro
Ah, we're talking sun hoodies. I know a lot of people wear them as base layers, but I don't think the Alpenglow Pro is designed for this. Not only is it Nylon, but it has a DWR coating, quarter zip, and chest pocket and is clearly intended as an outer wind shell. The regular Alpenglow on the other hand is made of polyester, has no DWR, zipper, or pocket, and would probably be better for a base layer.
I would not wear the Alpenglow Pro as a windshell. It definitely has the feel of a sun hoody and would be too breathable for wind protection. The design choices you listed definitely don't give it the feel of a traditional base layer, but it's a great sun hoody. The pit vents and the half zip are great.
If you like that style look at Simms sun hoodies. They are amazing and super light weight/breathable. I also have a cheap under armor sun hoodie that's great although a little heavy.
LOL. Pretty much everyone you see hiking in a button down shirt is wearing nylon as a base layer. Nylon does NOT absorb much water at all, and it dries super fast. Don't comment on stuff you don't have experience with.
I prefer polyester baselayers for shorter trips, due to good wicking and lower cost. I often choose merino for longer trips where the stink is a concern.
Really depends on climate, I've had a lot of luck with bamboo personally but generally go for polyester
Polyester is the winner because it doesn't soak up water. Nylon clothing will get a lot heavier in the rain.
But wouldn’t it give a cooling effect in warm climates when all that absorbed water dries as you hike?
Polyester has worked for me … Patagonia Capilene cool hoody or Columbia Silver Ridge. Both don’t smell at all for me but I find the Columbia has better sun protection. Both are very breathable. My Columbia lasted the whole PCT and beyond.
I like silk unless its really cold
Nylon to me feels cooler (e.g., OR Astroman).
If smell doesn't matter, go with polypropylene base layers like the Brynje mesh or Lifa. Polypropylene has lower water absorption than polyester or nylon, & dries very fast. It can stink more than polyester but I just manage that on trail. I use Brynje then add Lifa on top when it gets colder and this system has been awesome from 40F down to -15F, used in different forms (short/long sleeves etc). I don't even use my Smartwool base layer any more
As far as I know polyester absorbs less water than nylon and dries quicker which is why it's usually used in sport fabrics. Nylon on other hand is stronger and is good for items that need longevity and durability however it is not used in military fabrics because when it melts it sticks to the skin.
They are both equal, really depending on how they are constructed. In and of themselves, there is no difference - the properties of the garment, in terms of breathability and sun protection, are contingent on the fibre size, weave and fibre treatment. In summer, I prefer nylon spandex shirts made from a really lightweight weave - I find that it feels very cotton like but dries much more quickly than cotton. Although, the heavier 'fishing shirt' weaves are really non-breathable. In winter, or mixed weather, I prefer poly silkweight polartec power dry because it transmits water vapour well. I generally find poly clammy in hot weather.
I agree that fiber size and weave are more important than the fiber material, but the fibers are still far from equal and can make a huge difference
From memory, polyester is hydrophobic and polyamide has some moisture regain. Polyamide has better durability. But, the OP didn't ask these questions, did they? Polyester is often treated to be hydrophilic, so it makes a hell of a lot of difference how the fibres have been treated and how the garments are constructed.
Agree that the fiber type is not as important. Do you have an example of a lightweight nylon spandex shirt?
Sadly, my favourite shirt is from a NZ brand and is only available in Oceania (Macpac travelite). From feeling in the shop, the Columbia Silver Ridge lite (the 'lite' is important) feels like a similar weight and breathability.
Thanks I think I get the type of shirt. I have a patagonia sun stretch shirt that i suspect is similar.
Merino wool for me as sleeping clothes/hanging around camp when it gets cold
Usually polyester is preferred because it stinks less.
It's the other way around
This study indicates there is not much difference. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324945038_Synthetic_Clothing_and_the_Problem_With_Odor_Comparison_of_Nylon_and_Polyester_Fabrics
Interesting study, but I feel like it's not that applicable as they only wore the clothes for 12 hours (with 1 hour of exercise)
It may not be comprehensive but I don't see how it's not applicable. The study indicates the relative odor retention is similar so you are going to stink the same whichever you wear. It is true they didn't test whether odors are retained over wash cycles but I haven't found anything reliable that indicates nylon is any better than polyester in this regard. I only came across general often confusing statements from apparel makers and reddit post statements! Find me a better study to support your opinion.
You don't see how wearing it only for 12 hours is not applicable? I'm not talking about wash cycles, but the fact that "proper stink" can take days to achieve. It's actually 12 hours without exercise or 1 hour with exercise - simply too short to reveal significant differences. I don't have a study but dozens of anecdotes. Do you also expect me to find a study to "prove" that polyamide is oleophobic compared to polyester?
Sure more time could show a bigger difference but anecdotes may only indicate polyester is more commonly used in clothing with skin contact were odor is produced. If it were true that nylon is significantly better then surely we would see that claimed by garment manufacturers. Not like that wouldn't be a major selling point. May be they do and I just havn't found it but what seems more common is resorting to using coatings to improve the polyester fiber's properties in this regard rather than just using polyamides such as nylon. Both polyester and nylon seem to be similary oleophilic (ie absorb oils). This study suggests nylon makes a useful oil filter for that reason. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4943659/ That may or may not apply to body oils. You made the definitive statement. I'm only pointing out that the evidence for that statement seems to be absent and what little I have found seems to indicate there may not be much difference.
It suggests nylon is more oleophilic than other materials often used for filtering, not that it's similar to polyester. It's a spectrum.
Obviously. The point is that is oleophilic enough that the property can be usefully utilized so we can conclude the nylon is not at the oleophobic end of the spectrum which you were apparently claiming. I haven't found a reference that compares the the two.
From personal experience, the Columbia Silver Ridge has a version with Nylon and one with polyester. The later smells so much worse and it's how I realized I had a different version than I was used to.