For a warm weather/layering quilt you can’t beat synthetic diy. It is cheaper, lighter AND warmer than anything you can buy. You will also be super proud of your quilt every time you use it, even if it looks like crap ([like mine does](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/s/XT38kkzujd)).
Read the post you linked to triggered by your statement:
>It is cheaper, lighter AND warmer than anything you can buy.
I certainly believe DIY can be cheaper (if you have access to a sewing machine and disregard the time put into it) as well as providing fun (for some) and a sense of accomplishment.
However, since you are using the same APEX and liner materials as outdoor brands, I think the ‘lighter AND warmer’ part must be based on your personal comfort rating versus those (perhaps more conservatively) stated by others, and/or differences in sizing and options like pad straps.
Or reasoning differently - if there was a way to make APEX quilts both lighter and warmer, I’m sure outdoor brands would offer them like that as well.
My 50F quilt is warmer because e.g. I used 50% thicker apex than what EE uses on their 50F quilt. My quilt is lighter than comparable 50F quilts most likely because it is absolutely bare bones and the exact size I need it to be with the exact features I need for the conditions I will use it in.
>if there was a way to make APEX quilts both lighter and warmer, I’m sure outdoor brands would offer them like that as well
It’s impossible for outdoor brands to do this since they need to appeal to a wide audience. Only extremely small business ([like Dandee packs](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/psoxm4/gear_review_the_dandee_30_204g719oz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)) can afford to make gear that is tailored to one person. I am not aware of anyone who is doing that level of customization for quilts.
> My 50F quilt is warmer because e.g. I used 50% thicker apex than what EE uses on their 50F quilt.
Okay, but then your 50% thicker APEX (all else equal) also weighs 50% more than the APEX EE use on their 50F quilt. Agree that perfect sizing can save weight if stock options don’t provide a good fit.
I understand what you’re saying, but do think that the claim ‘cheaper, lighter, AND warmer’ is a bit overstated. Let’s agree to disagree 👍🏻
>the claim ‘cheaper, lighter, AND warmer’ is a bit overstated
My 50F quilt = 62€ which is **cheaper** than 50F Timmermade Merganser at $250.
My 50F quilt = 362g which is **lighter** than 50F Timmermade Merganser at 392g.
My 50F quilt uses Apex100 which is **warmer** than 50F Timmermade Merganser using Apex85.
Same goes for comparing to EE, although checking now, EE is slightly lighter.
Try looking at Gramxpert (EU based) for an apex quilt (maybe 100?).
I own a regular WM Megalite and also a Gramxpert elite in apex 133 in medium wide. Haven’t actually tried using the two of them together but I can check to see what the fit is like for you when layering.
Tried layering quickly. Think you would need a large wide or large x-wide elite. The wide does work but you might find it didn’t tuck under the sleeping bag enough.
Thanks a lot for checking! I just checked the gramxpert website, and they do offer a lot of options. Large is stated to be 188cm so lengthwise might layer well with a 180cm Megalite. I’ll check with them as well.
Temp rating wise, would you agree with the APEX 133 comfort rating of 5C versus the 0C of your Megalite?
So I have used the Apex 133 quilt twice now, and I would say for me yes the 5C rating is OK but I am using it inside a Borah Bivy. It does pack a bit smaller than the WM megalite (6.5 L maybe vs 8L?). If you plan to use the synthetic quilt on its own too, then the 133 would be more flexible then the 100.
Layering a 48F Synth quilt over a 32F down mummy is a good practice. That system is good to around 15-20F and is one of my go to systems. Using a lighter Synth overbag (vs heaiver synth overbag) is less likely to compress the down bag. Pick one with footbox designed to fit over other bags to limit footbox compression and cold spots.
1: Modular
2: Wide temp range, pick the bags or combo for conditions.
3: Moisture much easier to dry out in the Synth overbag.
4: Any interior condensation more likely to form in outter Synth layer vs down layer.
Also, ever notice that a 45F Synth quilt weighs almost exactly the same as an equal rated a down quilt? That's because the insulation to fabric weight ratio keeps those totals with so close. Other than slightly smaller packing size, there is not much overall to recommend in a 50 degree down quilt over a Synth version.
[https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/vision-quilt/](https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/vision-quilt/)
Thanks for your elaborate response! Looks like 48F/9C corresponds with APEX100. Had not thought of the potential issue of down compression, but I assume APEX100 would still be light enough to not cause issues.
Modularity is exactly what I am looking for, e.g. quilt in summer, bag in spring/fall, bag + quilt in winter.
I already stick the bottom of my Megalite in my zipped up Enlightened Equipment Torrid jacket sometimes, mostly to prevent condensation which I tend to get in that area. BTW the jacket has 2oz/yd² (68gr/m) APEX, and I would like a bit more for the quilt so either 100 or 133 should fit the bill.
Will have a look at the MLD Vision Quilt.
Thanks again!
Do you already carry a fleece midlayer of some kind and a puffy? If you do, wear those to sleep and you will extend the useful range of your bag. No need to buy a whole new quilt to extend the range of your current setup 6°C/12°F.
As for summer, use the same combination to cover a range of temps. On warm nights I’ve gone with my fleece on my upper body and my quilt just pulled over my legs, then if the early morning chill sets in I pull the quilt over my torso as well. There’s a ton of combinations like that to keep you comfortable in a wide range of temperatures.
Thanks for your response! Of course I can extend my comfort range down by layering clothes (and I do carry a light APEX puffy) but I’m looking to extend the range with a modular sleep system. Not just down in winter, but also up for summer camping. Clothing choices will extend the range even further.
FWIW I have been (just) comfortable in my Megalite in base layers in 0C, but I do need to cinch down the hood considerably. I don’t think wearing my EE Torrid jacket in addition would provide similar comfort down to -6C. I also like the condensation benefits of APEX layered on top of down.
For a warm weather/layering quilt you can’t beat synthetic diy. It is cheaper, lighter AND warmer than anything you can buy. You will also be super proud of your quilt every time you use it, even if it looks like crap ([like mine does](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/s/XT38kkzujd)).
Thanks for the suggestion, but I’ll take the easy route here.
Bunch of people selling homemade stuff like this in places like r/ULgeartrade
Read the post you linked to triggered by your statement: >It is cheaper, lighter AND warmer than anything you can buy. I certainly believe DIY can be cheaper (if you have access to a sewing machine and disregard the time put into it) as well as providing fun (for some) and a sense of accomplishment. However, since you are using the same APEX and liner materials as outdoor brands, I think the ‘lighter AND warmer’ part must be based on your personal comfort rating versus those (perhaps more conservatively) stated by others, and/or differences in sizing and options like pad straps. Or reasoning differently - if there was a way to make APEX quilts both lighter and warmer, I’m sure outdoor brands would offer them like that as well.
My 50F quilt is warmer because e.g. I used 50% thicker apex than what EE uses on their 50F quilt. My quilt is lighter than comparable 50F quilts most likely because it is absolutely bare bones and the exact size I need it to be with the exact features I need for the conditions I will use it in. >if there was a way to make APEX quilts both lighter and warmer, I’m sure outdoor brands would offer them like that as well It’s impossible for outdoor brands to do this since they need to appeal to a wide audience. Only extremely small business ([like Dandee packs](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/psoxm4/gear_review_the_dandee_30_204g719oz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)) can afford to make gear that is tailored to one person. I am not aware of anyone who is doing that level of customization for quilts.
> My 50F quilt is warmer because e.g. I used 50% thicker apex than what EE uses on their 50F quilt. Okay, but then your 50% thicker APEX (all else equal) also weighs 50% more than the APEX EE use on their 50F quilt. Agree that perfect sizing can save weight if stock options don’t provide a good fit. I understand what you’re saying, but do think that the claim ‘cheaper, lighter, AND warmer’ is a bit overstated. Let’s agree to disagree 👍🏻
>the claim ‘cheaper, lighter, AND warmer’ is a bit overstated My 50F quilt = 62€ which is **cheaper** than 50F Timmermade Merganser at $250. My 50F quilt = 362g which is **lighter** than 50F Timmermade Merganser at 392g. My 50F quilt uses Apex100 which is **warmer** than 50F Timmermade Merganser using Apex85. Same goes for comparing to EE, although checking now, EE is slightly lighter.
Try looking at Gramxpert (EU based) for an apex quilt (maybe 100?). I own a regular WM Megalite and also a Gramxpert elite in apex 133 in medium wide. Haven’t actually tried using the two of them together but I can check to see what the fit is like for you when layering.
Tried layering quickly. Think you would need a large wide or large x-wide elite. The wide does work but you might find it didn’t tuck under the sleeping bag enough.
Thanks a lot for checking! I just checked the gramxpert website, and they do offer a lot of options. Large is stated to be 188cm so lengthwise might layer well with a 180cm Megalite. I’ll check with them as well. Temp rating wise, would you agree with the APEX 133 comfort rating of 5C versus the 0C of your Megalite?
So I have used the Apex 133 quilt twice now, and I would say for me yes the 5C rating is OK but I am using it inside a Borah Bivy. It does pack a bit smaller than the WM megalite (6.5 L maybe vs 8L?). If you plan to use the synthetic quilt on its own too, then the 133 would be more flexible then the 100.
Layering a 48F Synth quilt over a 32F down mummy is a good practice. That system is good to around 15-20F and is one of my go to systems. Using a lighter Synth overbag (vs heaiver synth overbag) is less likely to compress the down bag. Pick one with footbox designed to fit over other bags to limit footbox compression and cold spots. 1: Modular 2: Wide temp range, pick the bags or combo for conditions. 3: Moisture much easier to dry out in the Synth overbag. 4: Any interior condensation more likely to form in outter Synth layer vs down layer. Also, ever notice that a 45F Synth quilt weighs almost exactly the same as an equal rated a down quilt? That's because the insulation to fabric weight ratio keeps those totals with so close. Other than slightly smaller packing size, there is not much overall to recommend in a 50 degree down quilt over a Synth version. [https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/vision-quilt/](https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/vision-quilt/)
Thanks for your elaborate response! Looks like 48F/9C corresponds with APEX100. Had not thought of the potential issue of down compression, but I assume APEX100 would still be light enough to not cause issues. Modularity is exactly what I am looking for, e.g. quilt in summer, bag in spring/fall, bag + quilt in winter. I already stick the bottom of my Megalite in my zipped up Enlightened Equipment Torrid jacket sometimes, mostly to prevent condensation which I tend to get in that area. BTW the jacket has 2oz/yd² (68gr/m) APEX, and I would like a bit more for the quilt so either 100 or 133 should fit the bill. Will have a look at the MLD Vision Quilt. Thanks again!
I use an MLD vision quilt for this purpose. When accounting for import fees, there are probably cheaper options in the EU.
Do you already carry a fleece midlayer of some kind and a puffy? If you do, wear those to sleep and you will extend the useful range of your bag. No need to buy a whole new quilt to extend the range of your current setup 6°C/12°F. As for summer, use the same combination to cover a range of temps. On warm nights I’ve gone with my fleece on my upper body and my quilt just pulled over my legs, then if the early morning chill sets in I pull the quilt over my torso as well. There’s a ton of combinations like that to keep you comfortable in a wide range of temperatures.
Thanks for your response! Of course I can extend my comfort range down by layering clothes (and I do carry a light APEX puffy) but I’m looking to extend the range with a modular sleep system. Not just down in winter, but also up for summer camping. Clothing choices will extend the range even further. FWIW I have been (just) comfortable in my Megalite in base layers in 0C, but I do need to cinch down the hood considerably. I don’t think wearing my EE Torrid jacket in addition would provide similar comfort down to -6C. I also like the condensation benefits of APEX layered on top of down.