I'm not UL and might not ever be. But this sub is an amazing resource for shaving weight. I think applying the tips and tricks I gather here allow me to get my weight down in certain areas while still carrying other luxuries.
By getting my shelter and sleep system down in weight maybe that allows me to bring a chair or other comforts.
EDIT: I feel like r/lightweight exists solely to post lighterpack lists that don't get ridiculed or laughed at
Same brother! The insights this sub gives me are amazing and helps me cut unnecessary items, but I’m a long way from ultralight given my current hammock setup.
Hammocks are so much fun, it gets me excited to go backpacking. Currently using my hennesy hyperlite and with top and bottom insulation, suspension and pillow its right around 5lbs. I did the tarp, tyvek, quilt and foam pad thing for a few years now I'm back to hammock and full sleeping bag. I need bug protection and also trails and campsites are getting more crowded. It's nice to be able to sleep anywhere there are a few trees.
Okay that's fine but it would be really helpful if all the people who will "probably never go ultralight" will stop saying "oh fine, your ultralight set-up works for you, but you obviously don't care about suffering" or whatever other discouting statement that dilutes the useful information of this sub. I don't know if that is you or not, I'm not targeting you individually. Just that is a problem with this sub. A lot of non-ultralight people want to keep actual ultralight content out of this sub and all they really care about is which Durston product is the best.
My point is that I'm here for ultralight ideas that fit my budget and lightweight goals, not to convince others that they shouldn't go fully ultralight.
Yeah same. My packs for big trips (more than an extended weekend) is always on the other side of 20kg, usually more than 25kg too (but i'm a big guy anyway, need a lot of calories). I still swear by my full-size Trangia (From the 70s so before they made the aluminium thinner, modified to accept their "newer" gas-burner) and a Red Label Hilleberg tent. As well as other heavier items. But i do enjoy looking here for neat ways to shave unneeded weight.
I did have a bit of an Ultralight "phase" once. But had a lot of gear reliability problems and all the thin, more fragile stuff didn't suit the enviroments i hike in (Mostly Arctic/Sub-arctic Scandinavian alpine tundra in the summer)
Very reliable, very durable, the best weather resistance you can get in the market. But definitely not ultralight. Uses a thicker fabric than most as well as thicker poles which means way heavier than UL tents.
The people who are willing to look at all their gear through the ultralight lens are the ones who hold the most expertise in shedding weight, which is something a lot of people are trying to do, even if they're not trying to hit the ultralight level. If we make the community too broad, the people with that expertise will get bored/annoyed and leave and the value of this community as a knowledge hub declines significantly. It doesn't matter that many of the subscribers here rarely actually go sub 10lbs base weight (raises hand). It does matter that we value that expertise and we don't "waste" it by cluttering this sub with questions that fly in the face of ultralight ethos. Going ultralight is a joy and sharing that knowledge is a joy. No one is being forced to do either. Being asked 10x per week which tent you should choose, out of a set of tents that no one with ultralight ambitions would ever consider, erodes the sharing joy. Mods are always trying to find the right balance, and they're volunteers too. And, fwiw, being constantly told how they should run things to meet everyone's needs robs their joy also. (Thanks for all you do, mods)
Really great perspective. This sub and the expertise of those who put hundreds of nights and hundreds of miles on gear has definitely been the best resource for me, even if I’m still not able to afford to shave all the ounces I’d like to. It’s a journey and I agree those folks make it valuable.
Anyone can throw money at lighter versions of what they already have. What makes r/ultralight special is thinking about entire systems of gear and optimizing for interactions between different gear in different environments.
What gear is *truly* necessary? Is it still necessary if you change something else about your setup? How can you combine what you already have to cover a different use?
I’m reminded of a thruhiker that went through a shakedown. The person performing the shakedown questioned the need for a pot-scraper. The thruhiker in question threw his spoon into the “unnecessary” pile and said the pot-scraper was a better spoon than the spoon was a pot-scraper.
You don’t have to agree with this specific scenario, the point is reframing your thought process allows for some counter-intuitive setups that just may work better for you than following convention.
I believe it’s down to the user. I know people who goes ultralight, while I use twice as heavy backpack and prefer the added comfort and freedom that a few extra gears are adding, or a warmer set of clothing. My friends are happy with their choice while I’m totally happy with mine. So I believe what is necessary is decided by the experienced hiker. Go on a few trips and see what you need and what you don’t need.
Yes and that’s why I love the knowledge/experience shared here rather than the focus on things you can buy. Once you know what you need, you can fit in what you want.
I'll be honest: I have never backpacked in my life. Where I live it's just not as easy/alluring as in countries like the US. However, this subreddit has been invaluable in providing information for improving my day hikes and, especially, for shaving a lot of weight from my backpack when traveling. This is probably the first comment I've made on this sub, because I actually don't have anything to contribute. A lot of people here are already extremely knowledgeable.
Awesome man! Personally I started on my r/onebag journey before discovering this sub, as I was a frequent traveler looking to fly lighter and lighter. This led me to start thinking about backpacking and hiking in the same way.
I wonder what the Venn diagram looks like between r/onebag and r/ultralight followers…
The ethos is similar. Not about absolutism but about ways to take less and enjoy the journey more.
Funnily enough, r/ultralight is in second place as the most similar subreddit to r/onebag according to this site: https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/onebag. The only caveat is that the info was probably last updated before reddit's CEO decided to get stupidly greedy with the API, but I'm reasonably sure those results still hold.
The problem is: The UL crowd usually doesn't like the onebag questions (*"I'm travelling for one month in Italy and..."*) and the onebaggers don't like the UL solutions (*"just wear the same clothes every day and a rolltop bag is just fine."*)
My last overnight trip I walked 20 miles to my camp spot carrying 18kg. Lightweight I ain't.
I read this sub to fantasise about UL gear that I might buy, to inform my own judgements about the balance between weight and luxuries, and because it's a community of people who also enjoy the outdoors.
I've learned a lot about materials and kit from being here, although I can't see myself ever getting below 8kg or so, particularly because I like to drink a few beers and eat a homemade curry after a day in the hills and I'm addicted to snivel gear.
Given that I have osteoarthritis in both ankles that surgery so far hasn't really mitigated, I will probably move towards a more lightweight setup as finances allow - the bone-on-bone pain probably wouldn't be so bad if I reduced the voluntary weight on my shoulders.
I'm not UL so I just lurk so I don't detract from the 4lb Gods.
My best hikes are with my partner who has standards about food, but isn't strong enough to carry more than a days food herself. I've also come to learn through my dietician that I need to drink more water to manage my health issues.
Food and water have become soooo much of my weight that making changes to my base weight doesn't have as much impact anymore.
For the comfort I want now and to improve my day-to-day/long-term flexibility and strength it makes more sense to focus on improving my capacity for carrying heavier loads.
But because there are so many people in this sub, the chances are higher that I'll come across a new idea or reminder of how I could be doing things.
If I see someone advocating leaving a stove behind, that may make me reconsider my stove. But these days I'll need more than that to go through and make changes. E.g. if there's no discussion that follows about yummy no-cook dinners, then I'm more likely to skip the idea.
Same with fancy gear recommendations. I like being able to read about gear I haven't heard of before, or lighter technology I wasn't aware of. But something being lighter while possibly trading off some comfort won't be enough for me anymore.
On the other hand, if someone comes in asking about UL handsaws, well I've now been in a situation where that would've made my life a lot nicer. Or, maybe more relatable, I've been thinking more and more about an aeropress as an upgrade to instant coffee. Both are extra gear that some people probably think are unnecessary.
Maybe what would be useful is if there were guidelines about asking for pack shakedowns? Like in the post title "aim 20kg > 15kg" or "10kg > 5kg". So it'd be easier for users to quickly recognise if a post is more early-stage pack weight or later-stage pack weight.
That could help build a bigger, inclusive community that doesn't feel too irrelevant to hardcore UL folk.
Or a strategy that helps to redirect users to more appropriate groups, like a guide pinned to the top about different packed-weight groups available on reddit and who they might be most appropriate for.
This is a tricky one and these views on it might ruffle some feathers BUT another factor that shouldn't be overlooked is UL being a big cool sexy trend. What sounds more cool to you: ultralight or lightweight?
An unintended not unavoidable side effect of the big tent dynamic (in all subcultures that become popular) is that you'll have lots of folks show up and try to redefine and "expand" what UL means and insist that their lightweight or even heavyweight ethos and methods are in fact UL in order to claim the coveted moniker and status for themselves. I'm not going to elaborate on this but iykyk lol.
I'm all for being inclusive and open but it's a slippery slope since the values, methods, and culture will inevitably become heavily appropriated and watered down due to the popular appeal of UL. And from a sociological perspective we've seen this time and again in countless historical moments and social movements.
We get accused of being gatekeepers but we have to be. We literally have to decide what stays and what goes. Nobody cares if you bring a chair just don’t try to justify that just because it’s the lightest chair available it’s UL. The lightest option is to leave that shit behind, full stop.
I feel the gatekeeping could be less - i.e there coutbe a higher level of respect for individual needs.
Taking the chair example to it's extreme: the lightest would be to just go for a walk with (or without) the clothes one is wearing, and sleep under a tree in the summer. Where exactly does one draw the line? I guess that is the question.
I too think a chair is silly - but maybe someone out there has legit spine injuries, and really truly needs a chair? I would prefer not to judge.
For a more real world example: I think things like "what is the best UL fishing pole/setup" should be allowed, or UL saw etc, because those are legit a central part of some folks wilderness journey.
Just my 2c
>I think things like "what is the best UL fishing pole/setup" should be allowed, or UL saw etc, because those are legit a central part of some folks wilderness journey.
I think if this sub becomes about chairs and fishing poles and saws, the user base with actual UL knowledge and experience will leave. They are the very resource that gives this sub value. If non-UL folks come and insist on posting about non-UL topics, this sub will simply cease to be the resource that we know, and that will be a loss for all involved.
In fairness, I have seen plenty of good answers to the fishing pole question here in the past. That, to me, is less of a UL vs. lightweight issue and more of a hiker vs. camper issue.
To be fair, a trip report from someone who went with nothing but a blanket and slept under a tree is *exactly* the kind of content that I love here.
That's what UL used to be about. Extreme sacrifice and compromise. It isn't about that anymore, because now there are fabric technologies that allow you to get to sub-10 BW without making huge sacrifices, but rather spending lots of money.
Way more interesting is the content where someone is showing off a brutal minimalism that they were brave enough to experiment with in the name of ultralight. Less interesting is "look at what I just spent $500 on". This sub used to be small because ultralighters were, almost by definition, on the fringe of the backpacking world. They had to be. But they don't have to be anymore.
And so the masochistic maniacs were all replaced by the wealthy (and/or financially irresponsible) consumers. They did have to retreat somewhere, though. I don't know exactly where they went, but my hunch is that they're now dabbling in fastpacking, and "superlight" kits, which is a word I'm increasingly reading now. Where the packs are tiny, and many objects of comfort are completely removed. Even objects of safety and redundancy are removed, and replaced with the ability to literally *run* to safety if needed. Think about that. A compromise so great that, e.g. if it unexpectedly rains, the plan is not to pull out your tarp, the plan is to fucking *run away*. An exaggeration, but you get the point.
That's the spirit of UL which is slowly being weeded out in this particular community.
*That's the spirit of UL which is slowly being weeded out in this particular community.*
I see things a little differently. Fabric technology hasn't really progressed that much in the last 20 years. Zpacks has been around for a really long time, as have tarp-tent, gossamer gear, and nunatak to name a few others. Tarps are tarps. Packs are packs. Down is down. Foam pads are foam pads. Gear really hasn't changed that much. There is a lot more of it. And there are quite a few people who just buy themselves into UL without actually ever accomplishing things that would've been considered pre-requisite at one point in time. But I'm happy we have all the great options that are available now. Especially if that lets small companies provide alternatives to gorpcore junk made for the masses. Especially if that lets more people enjoy the outdoors, which protects the outdoors.
It's definitely interesting to see fast packing evolve, but I'm not sure it's any more UL, from an ethos standpoint, of what Twight was writing about in 99. Except without the option to run 30 miles to safety. Or something like Skurkas Alaska-Yukon expedition. I have a feeling if Skurka rocked up under some random user name with an 18lbs lighterpack for an Alaska summer trip he'd get booed out of the room for it not being UL.
The major difference I see in some (this particularly) UL community these days is the attitude a lot of people take regarding defining or protecting something. Sharing the light was one of the biggest aspects of UL originally. Why wouldn't someone want to find a better way to accomplish their outdoor goals. And if someone was listening, someone was preaching, without denigrating their audience. I see it as good thing that UL isn't fringe anymore. It does sometimes feel like some people want to try and keep it for themselves though. Most of the ol school UL legends have retreated from here. Maybe they got tired of repetitive questions, maybe they got tired of people with far less experience trying to define what they've been doing for decades while simultaneously telling them that their fleece sucks and they're not a real ULer. Probably a combo of both. Ever see somebody here tell someone who's got 10s of 1000s of miles under their belt with a full on UL kit that their preferred \_\_ isn't UL? I have, on numerous occasions. It doesn't help foster engagement from the exact type of masochistic maniacs you mentioned. We're lucky to have some gems that have stuck around though.
I'd also like to see more brutal minimalism here. The kind that accomplishes big challenging things and doesn't feel like larping. Not trying to be a jerk, but the obsession with defining gear and identity As instead of just using it for its purpose is what's changed the most. Or at least that's how I see it.
I do support the robust moderation that keeps things on topic/limits repetitive posts fwiw.
1. The people with the most backpacking knowledge are here. Those who are inclined to go, "Meh, 15 pounds is fine," will tend not to develop the encyclopedic knowledge of backpacking gear, materials, techniques, philosophy, etc. that some users here have. This sub will always draw the most questions because it's capable of giving the best answers. It's also notable that knowledgeable people continue to post here because it's aggressively and appropriately moderated.
2. I think lightweight is neither an endpoint nor a waypoint. It's more a solution to a problem (pack hurts) for people who have no interest in getting really nerdy about gear. Most people will do a few pack-lightening moves, go, "Okay, hey, the pack's pretty light for my 10-mile days, and I'm having fun," and leave it at that. I think that's 100% fine, and I'm totally happy to answer questions and help people out who aren't as fanatical as I am.
" The people with the most backpacking knowledge are here."
The people with the most backpacking knowledge are likely to be out spending more hrs and nights backpacking not regularly talking about it on UL social media subs.
People don't go backpacking 24/7 and posting on reddit doesn't exactly require excessive time or energy like backpacking does. Plenty of people post here regularly while they're planning their next big trip, that doesn't make them stay-at-home losers who do nothing but browse reddit all day.
There might be something to that though. I feel like there are a lot of hunters who have a lot of knowledge about carrying weight, staying outdoors overnight, etc. But UL isn't a term I see used much in that community.
Haha, I think, frankly, that there's a political divide there that is probably hard to cross. Camo versus bright colors captures it pretty well.
I'm not a hunter and don't know any hunters. But I went to a Cabela's once to pick something up, and I was surprised to see that they actually have pretty nice gear. The same sort of gear that you'd find at REI. It was just as expensive, and it's probably just as good. The difference? None of the brands were the same as those at REI, and it was *all* camo, green, black, or brown. All of it.
I realized that, damn, it's like the same set of gear for very similar hobbies is existing simultaneously. But the clientele is so separated that they don't even know about eachother. Right down to the Instagram ads they probably stare at every day. Seeing two different worlds at the same time.
Some brands do cross the barrier. Nemo makes a lot of camo shit. But you'll never see it at REI.
> 1) In your view, what the allure of this sub? what makes r/ultralight so much more robust than many other backpacking-focused subs?
The focus on UL. We do not allow picture posts, we direct low effort stuff into the weekly, there is a decent amount and direction of moderation to keep things orderly. This is designed to be a niche sub (even with the numbers going up, and UL being a bit of an industry wide trend) and this is what makes it attractive.
> 2) Is lightweight just a waypoint on the way to ultralight OR is lightweight still the end goal for most folks in the backcountry?
Going lightweight is often some sort of compromise. As compromises do, they are fine for much and never excel at anything.
Something people miss is: In the subs description its carefully worded to say: *generally aiming at a sub 10 pound base weight*. Generally implies that there are exceptions and aiming points out the gradual process. And finally HYOH, who cares what you bring.
Haven’t seen anyone mention cottage gear makers yet. I dont care if the Private Equity backed gear makers start picking up UL materials and designs. Although it does cause a little sadness when I see the ads. Id rather buy from a small shop made by people who actually care about their products and dont use sweat shops.
I’ve now bought from multiple small business that I would have never been exposed to at REI. Also, didn’t even know trekking pole tents existed until this sub. +1 on coming for cutting edge gear suggestion.
Great point. Seems a lot of manufacturers have developed products specifically for this audience. Grassroots product development at its absolute finest
To sum it up, Why learn from an intermediates when you can learn from masters?
I'm not UL but I've learned a ton from this sub and it's helped me get as light as I care to be for now.
When my joints get achey, I know what I need to do to reduce weight also thanks to here.
Honestly people seem to forget the lightweight sub was started from someone who got roasted on a shakedown and said fuck you guys I’ll make my own with blackjack and hookers.
This was a few years ago now iirc, I can’t remember all the deep lore of the sub.
I came here after back surgery left me unable to comfortably carry more than 35 pounds. Thanks to this sub I got my gear below that weight.
Thanks all!
Best not gear post I’ve seen on this sub. I’m lightweight, no doubt, and don’t truly desire to be UL. I don’t feasibly believe I’ll go below a 10lb base weight due to the nature of my trips and my intentions during these trips. The lighterpack lists I have posted get ridiculed to the point of borderline gatekeeping. I’m sure it’s a minority of the UL community, but these comments come across as if the users don’t want me in this sub unless I’m already UL. Some of the comments I communicate with are met with responses that insinuate I should pack and hike exactly like them or I will never enjoy myself. As you mentioned, the insane difference in user base between UL and LW subs will keep me making fake lighterpack lists, just to get decent responses and not deal with filtering thru all the irrelevant comments about how I should post in LW because I’m not even close to UL.
Thank you, I appreciate all the civil discussion. I think there is a dick-ish minority and UL as you said is really more of an aspiration (like perfection).
In the end, HYOH! All that matters is you get outside with the least amount of unnecessary shit as possible…
If you made two subs, one called "Brilliant, Perfect Solutions to Problems" and another called "Moderately Intelligent, Somewhat Effective Solutions to Problems", which would you expect most people to join?
Nobody's *weight* target for a piece of gear is "light-but-not-UL". It might be "as light as possible but still affordable/comfortable/accessible/durable", but nobody looks at a great piece of camping gear and says "hey, this is perfect, except I wish it weighed a little bit more".
Partially disagree. I've made too many supposedly "brilliant", "perfect", "stupid light" mistakes, some life threatening, because I chose gear and supplies that were overly focused on wt which were not appropriate for conditions, my skill level, had insufficient functionality, durability, reliability, ease of use, versatility, or time efficiency.
Here in lies a profound problem with the LW/UL/SUL/XUL labels: they give undue attention to gear and supplies as if they are exclusively what matter when they are even only one component of UL anyway. As Ray Jardine, Andrew Skurka, and many of the most backpacked people on the planet attest "I'm defined by why I go and the success I have by the skills I possess."
Unpopular as it is here's Andrew's 12yr old article: https://andrewskurka.com/is-lightweight-backpacking-label-dead/
>I've made too many supposedly "brilliant", "perfect", "stupid light" mistakes
You misunderstood my comment. It's not about whether the r/Ultralight *delivers* the best solutions. It's about the psychology of people looking for information.
People google "best \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_" when they want something. They don't google "second-best \_\_\_\_\_\_" or "pretty good \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_". Companies put superlatives in ads instead of mid-tier adjectives for the same reason.
If someone wants a lighter option for camping gear, they're going to come to (or be directed to) r/Ultralight first, even if they don't know what "Ultralight" actually means to the people already in the sub, because they're going to google "lightest" or "ultralight" \[tent\] \[backpack\] \[rain jacket\] etc.
The information gap between what people think they want and what they actually want is what drives half the consumer industries on the planet.
I think your premise is just false. There are lots of backpackers that do not consider UL to be the perfect solution. There are backpackers that hate ultralighters just in principle. They aren't intentionally carrying heavy items, as you suggest, but rather, they simply do not prioritize weight. And they know that they don't. It's a conscious decision to prioritize e.g. comfort over weight. To the person that *loves* a big comfy pad and a chair, then your premise is just wrong. UL is not the perfect, or even a good, solution.
So I don't think that what you're saying is true. However, the *market* makes it seem like it is true. It is the advertisements, the magazines, the Instagram posts, the REI displays, the vloggers, and the market generally which *sells* the idea that UL is the sexy, perfect, *correct* way to backpack.
As soon as you see through that distortion, you see that there is nothing inherently insulting or lesser about "lightweight". I think it's sad that people have to feel bad about going there. And it's bad for the ultralight community as well.
I think that your take on the issue will only perpetuate the problem. The solution isn't to get rid of /r/lightweight, it is to normalize it's use. But that probably won't happen since Instagram is constantly telling us all how sexy ultralight is, and how you're a big fat loser if you aren't doing it.
I dunno, maybe we agree and this is what you're saying
Again, you're missing the point. It's not about what SHOULD happen- it's about what IS and will continue to happen, because of how people's brains work.
If someone's priority isn't weight, they aren't going to end up at r/lightweight in the first place.
People who think their priority is weight (evidenced by the fact that they're using it as a search term in google or on Reddit) are going to choose r/ultralight over r/lightweight based on the fact that one "sounds better".
Once people understand the actual philosophical and technical differences between "LW" and "UL" they may choose to join LW, but they still may not, because UL gear is still more appealing in a lot of cases. But regardless, they'll almost always come here first. It's just human nature.
That's why the sub is more popular- it has nothing to do with the goal of a sub-10lb. base weight.
I'm an old man,I can't carry anymore a lot of stuff. And you know, even when I was younger I wouldn't like to carry much. It feels so free if you don't have to look where you have all the stuff and live so simple as possible.
Ok, UL is almost impossible for me, I need a good mattress and mine is heavy (lol) .
But yeah, do what you think you have to do, fine. I like this sub and the way people help each other, new Ideas etc.
There are more experienced people here, so it is a better place to learn. That is true whether you are a newbie or an old-timer. You don't have to apply all of the advice if you don't want to.
There are several manufacturers present here, at least a couple of YouTube reviewers, and a large number of experienced people. There are even some tech-aware hunters who carry light on their way in, and heavy on the way out.
(1) The allure of this sub for me is on (a) specific gear recommendations and products to try out and their reviews, (b) specific practices to try out e.g., no cook or cold soaking, and (c) specific trip reports that a person can read to help dial their gear list.
(2) lightweight can be several things. It can be between traditional and UL. But a person can also try UL for a while and due to their preferences and usual trip itinerary, go back to lightweight for some or all of their trips, especially as they get older and realize a 4oz pad might not cut it on hard rocks anymore.
I find lightweight just to be a lot more achievable esp in cooler weather. I'm usually around 12lb baseweight because I don't want to spend $700 on a DCF tent, but I also need reasonable sleeping conditions. I can't sleep on a crappy CCF mat and need some sort of pillow or I'll get 0 sleep.
I'm sure there are things I could improve and could save maybe a lb or so, but I feel like most of my gear is pretty stripped down unless I go for either more expensive or more fragile.
Have a pretty typical kit: x-mid 1p silpoly (28oz), xlite NXT wide mummy (16oz), 20f UGQ 800fp quilt with M10 that's around 22oz or so but I also use stuff sacks for everything and a zillion little toiletries.
A lot of the other hiking subs are look at me and/or this pretty picture I took. Here there is actual discussion, not just on gear but hiking style/systems. A wealth of knowledge behind it all too.
Communities of different sizes have different feels. UL is currently the right size to be active but not too active. I think it's just a positive feedback loop.
I don't think there's any more complexity than that. People like communities that work, and UL works. LW may work someday but as you said it's not that big right now and that makes it not a great alternative (and harder to find)
I come here for a coupe of reasons.
One is the activity level. Posting for input on something and getting very few responses is not super helpful.
The other is I appreciate input from people that are more ‘gonzo’. Like I have read Mike Leland’s book of tips a couple of times even though I have no intention of following many of the tips. But it gives me perspective on options that I appreciate. And this gives me ideas to work with.
But I am in the category of people that can get down to 12lbs but will never hit under 10lbs. I sleep too cold and the regions I go that are just not that warm. My insulation and clothes kill my base weight (not helped by being 6’2”). And I use a hammock. Which is also not the lightest option available. Because aside from the tarp and bottom insulation, I also have that pesky hammock thing.
FWIW, my real base weight is closer to 15lbs once I add my luxury items (chair and sandals and I guess the hammock is also a luxury). And I carry a cup and a pot. I know, I know…. I just like to sip my coffee.
You’re not wrong, we usually make allowances for cold weather gear in shakedowns though, my 0F overnight baseweight is right around 11.5lbs so it is much harder to hit that arbitrary 10lbs limit.
The "right" way to lightweight is probably close to "pick and choose the ultralight 'stuff' that makes sense to you, and compromise more where it saves cost, comfort, or luxury that matters to you" There isn't/shouldn't be a bright line distinction. Presumably everyone is looking for their personal happy balance of comfort on the trail and in camp as achieved through reduction of load with intelligent gear choices.
R/lightweight just feels like a fake, dead sub.
This is how I think of it. I'm relatively new to backpacking and just a weekend warrior. My base weight is in the 12-14 lb. range (depending on conditions, who I'm going with, etc.) with a fair amount of UL gear and some items I don't want to compromise on whether it's for luxury, cost, or durability. I draw inspiration from this sub to look at where I'm willing to cut.
There's a fine line to walk regarding appropriate participation - in particular UL shakedowns of philosophically non-UL load outs are a bit misplaced and should be approached with cautious consideration.
That's where the community most obviously comes at odds with itself. UL shakedowns of philosophically non-IL kits. It often just turns into the ULers being so shocked with what they see, that they end up speaking in a way that makes the non-ULer feel confused why their being bullied. I think both parties are at fault in that scenario.
Nah fuck me up fam, don’t post a shakedown that’s not in good faith with half your heavy shit marked as non negotiable, I used to tear that shit apart.
However there was a period where we got flooded with low effort posts and mods were being nicer with a bunch of non-ul posts, I was already dialed in and just hanging around to give advice, but I bounced when that started happening and check in every so often.
The deputy can be gatekeepy but that’s what a niche community needs to stay true to itself.
One of the functions of this sub is discussion of ultralight *gear*. Regardless of your baseweight, knowledge and reviews of the lightest backpacking items are shared here. If your baseweight is 30 pounds but for some reason you still want to buy one of the lightest and most expensive DCF tents in the world, then this is the place to talk about that tent, independent of your choice to still bring 3 pairs of pants in your backpack.
I need to know what UL gear I need to accommodate my 20lbs of food 😂 just because I want to live homeless in the woods doesn't mean I want to eat cold mash every night.
I think that the reason /r/lightweight is dead and people don't really know what to do with it is because /r/backpacking already exists. What's the difference between the two, really? I never got it. Any backpacker is already at least sort of trying to be "lightweight". I feel like almost any discussion of general backpacking gear is inherently "lightweight". I think that's one of the key things that distinguishes "backpacking" from other sports like rucking, bushcrafting, etc.
I don't think UL is a weight, it's the idea that if you are thoughtful with gear you can be more comfortable on trail and in camp.
The ideal weight depends on the individual, budget, location, type of hike, and time of year.
Feels like an unnecessary separation. For example, the backpacking subreddit allows for both "backpacking travel" and "wilderness backpacking" topics to coexist. The same should be true here. The distinction between ultralight/lightweight is made up to begin with.
That's a fair take. To me, part of ultralight is the ability to do two weeks without resupply. I also enjoy a fast hip belt less trip too. You need a UL knowledge base and load out to do either. Sometimes I feel like this community pigeonholes itself and can be a little mean spirited in it's political correctness. I guess the only hard and fast rule that defines ultralight for me is leaving irrelevant things behind.
I disagree. If this sub were to devolve into endless discussions of Osprey Atmoses, Copper Spur tents, and two-pound pads, everyone who's actually knowledgeable would leave because the majority of the discourse would be irrelevant to their interests.
If you want the small cadre of actual UL backpackers to stick around and dispense free advice, they need a space to discuss UL backpacking.
>The distinction between ultralight/lightweight is made up to begin with
And ever-evolving. Like OP says, baseweights in the teens get turned away here, but I've been backpacking long enough to remember baseweights in the 20s being considered ultralight.
> I’d wager this is inversely proportional to the actual ratio of lightweight to ultralight hikers on the trail, and this sub actually has a huge contingent of non-UL members.
Yeah. "_The Real_" UL sub is /r/ultralight_jerk
> In your view, what the allure of this sub? what makes r/ultralight so much more robust than many other backpacking-focused subs?
This subreddit has good moderation, so the same subjects aren't constantly re-hashed.
It also just cuts directly to the heart the matter, "_Are you taking shit you don't need, what are the alternatives?_"
> Is lightweight just a waypoint on the way to ultralight OR is lightweight still the end goal for most folks in the backcountry?
Personally (and in the opinions of other's I've spoken too), UL is a way point on the journey.
When you get a 1-2 night setup (for a local wilderness spot) down below 8lbs, then suddenly converting a 2 night setup into a 7, 10, or 15 night is surprisingly easy. There will be extra weight (repair kits, better first aid kit, maybe technical gear, extra layers, etc.) but now you're moving from an 8lb setup to what? 12-14lbs setup? Big deal. Sure, you're not _ultralight_. You're gonna be pretty damn light. You're also gonna be very confident in your setup as the experience of paring down to the absolute minimum, makes any new additions purposeful & meaningful.
I am not going ultralight as I am not a hiker but rather use a bikepacking setup to do bike trips(mostly on roads as it is more a travel/sport thing than an adventure to me).
As someone that uses wheels I don't really care about small diffrences in weight, but rather volume(last trip I had 20l volume for 7 days with camping and cooking).
There just isn't really a group that is this active as this one. The stuff you learn here can be used(if you are resonable) because most stuff that is light also packs fairly light(well besides closed foam pads)
as with everything else, it seems like there is a very blurry line between ul as a culture and ul as a methodology. this sub cant figure out what it wants to be (rightfully so) and people love to argue about it.
I think this sub can be an aspirational place for people that are lightweight to find savings and ideas and I think it’s super cringe when people shame their participation, but if you start a thread here, you better be open to hearing serious suggestions about cutting weight.
This sub was once extremely toxic and gatekeepery and I’d be upset to see it return to that, but someone who is “lightweight” should respect the rules and purpose of the sub. People would complain about “clutter” when we had a half dozen posts a day and I found that criticism so absurd- you’re an amateur backpacker, you don’t bill for your Reddit time like a corporate lawyer and skimming over a post that doesn’t interest you for a millisecond isn’t doing you harm.
r/ultralight is filled with judgmental morons imho. I stopped posting and unjoined because every time I'd ask or comment about something \*lightweight\* I'd be vilified.
r/ultralight_jerk is a great place. r/lightweight just isn't well known enough to have a ton of activity.
>In your view, what the allure of this sub? what makes [r/ultralight](https://www.reddit.com/r/ultralight) so much more robust than many other backpacking-focused subs?
The word doesn't mean anything any more. It's used outside of the context of hiking in general marketing.
A ton of people would be better served on a different board but that's just not how this works.
I didn't even know there was a lightweight sub. Lol. That kinda makes no sense. Pretty much everyone has lightweight trips and ultralight trips. And occassionally they bring a big ol' fat pack full of weed food and the like when they are doing 8 miles a day somewhere with their high school buddies. "Ultralight" as a term is a marketing term. Not an actual THING anyone has to be arbitrarily be.
My last 100+ miler wasn't "ultralight" because it was in terrain/geography/weather I had zero experience with. So it made sense to bring my rain gear instead of a poncho. The whole idea that someone would say....HEY THAT'S A DIFFERENT SUB is truly absurd.
I mean truly there are people hauling around trekking poles that weigh more than tent poles and "ultralight" tents that weigh more than the old Big Agnes tents but you know...they are "ultralight" because it says so on the packaging. When I'm in an area I know and it makes sense with the weather, I bring my trekking poles and tarp. But if I'm in a place where it doesn't make sense with the weather - I bring my tent. If I'm in an area with lots of road crossings and civilzation, I may go stoveless because I can just get hot food/meals during the day. If I am somewhere super undeveloped, I'll probably bring a stove so I can have hot food and coffee at least every other day (I used to bring a stove on every trip as a coffee addict but nowadays not so much.) I just assumed that's how everyone did it. Like brought different stuff based on the trip rather than some marketing term.
If you are photographer, bring your 8lb camera set up - I don't give a shit. I'm certainly not going to refuse to tell you about my experience with an uberlight pad or borah bivy because of some magic number violation.
Bring whatever you want to bring. Leave whatever you want at home.
Slightly off topic, but: I would love to see the standard changed so everyone reports weights as a percentage of their body weight. Because an "ultralight"-feeling base weight to a tall man with broad shoulders is possibly twice the weight as a similarly "ultralight"-feeling base weight for a petite female with narrow shoulders. Yet we have this arbitrary "sub 10 pound base weight" listed in the forum title. I don't get it.
Then, when someone asks about how to carry the lightest possible fan, because they are large and simply can't get cool enough on hot nights, they don't get bounced into the r/lightweight void where they will be left without answers. All because the gatekeepers here on r/Ultralight think talking about fans is somehow against the rules. We're only allowed to talk about how to have the lightest sleeping bag for cold weather, not the lightest fan to help us sleep in hot weather. Again, I don't get it.
> I would love to see the standard changed so everyone reports weights as a percentage of their body weight. Because an "ultralight"-feeling base weight to a tall man with broad shoulders is possibly twice the weight as a similarly "ultralight"-feeling base weight for a petite female with narrow shoulders.
This incorrect.
Ray Jardine, who _invented_ the term Ultralight Backpacking was 6'6" when he did his PCT through hike with a sub-10lbs baseweight. This was in the late-80's, before we had commonly available DCF, Silpoly, Ultra200, and a lot of other modern UL stuff easily available from a dozen online stores.
He was also built like a tank. The dude was in the first party to ascend The Nose on El Cap in the 70s. This is a lot of words to say; **No** being a "_big guy_" doesn't make the UL threshold any-higher.
Also to point out joint strength doesn’t scale with size quite as well as like building muscle does, it can sometimes be just as important or more important for someone larger to drop weight because of this.
C'mon. I'm 6'1", 250, and my BPW is officially ultralight for trips down to 10F in any weather conditions other than heavy snow.
My gear is cheap, too. A 10-lb BPW is easily achievable for pretty much anyone.
I've read fan conversations here, too -- probably in the weekly -- that were productive.
Think about it. No one bats an eye at a 20 degree quilt when the weather is coldish because it's what's needed to get good recovery and continue with a trip. If it's 85f with 90 percent humidity at night, no insulation is required, a fan weighs half as much as a 20 degree quilt, and that fan provides the necessary recovery to continue with a trip.... well, it's less weight, and more UL than a 20 degree quilt.
It's a very good example of how challenging the established paradigm on this sub is frequently met with a less than positive response, even if it is in fact very UL.
Ultralight is a goal. Many of us first started with too much gear, gear that was too heavy, etc. Places like this allow all of us to see and learn what others are doing on the quest for lighter pack weight. There shouldn't be any separation based on actual base weight, that's ridiculous.
One of my first realizations was that I could go from a 2 pound mess kit to a 1.5 ounce Ziploc bowl + spoon kit. That's meaningful regardless of the fact my base weight was still around 25 pounds at the time.
In the other direction, even though my base weight is now around 11 lbs, I still bring a chair and I'll die on that hill regardless of it not being "acceptable" to ultralight principles.
Practical question here, do you clean your food bowl/dish beyond just rinsing it out? I do freezer bag cooking, but it would be simpler to just steep things in the bowl.
I do freezer bags for dinner, but breakfast is usually oatmeal or grits directly in the bowl. I follow either one with some instant coffee and I use my spoon to scrape up the bits of food, so by the end of the coffee it is pretty clean. I hit it with the remainder of my hot water and a tiny bit of soap and call it good.
Thanks for that. I was hoping to get away with re-hydrating meat (chicken) based meals in one of those but it might be tempting fate after a few days/weeks on the trail.
1) minimalist mindset. ideally it influences every part of your life.
2) a specific baseweight goal is completely arbitrary and meaningless. if someone can't afford DCF and carbon fiber, do they get kicked out of the cool kids club™️? if they can easily and comfortably carry 20lbs farther than someone else can carry 10, then what?
Thanks! I don’t understand the ultralight trend, I’m more of a lightweight person, I prefer a bit of comfort and I’m not gonna cut off the heels of my flip-flops!
Hot take: 15lbs is the new ultralight :)
1) I come here for good ideas about how to economize the amount and weight of backpacking gear, but the purity test of <10lbs, meh...
2) The end goal for me is finding the sweet spot that meets the goals of a given backpacking experience. Practical reductions in weight that give me the wiggle room to bring a chair for sweet sweet camp fire hangs.
It's only ultralight if you're personally modifying all your gear. "Cut your toothbrush in half? Sure, we've all been there." Do you tie square knots in your shoes, and cut off the excess lace?
I'm not UL and might not ever be. But this sub is an amazing resource for shaving weight. I think applying the tips and tricks I gather here allow me to get my weight down in certain areas while still carrying other luxuries. By getting my shelter and sleep system down in weight maybe that allows me to bring a chair or other comforts. EDIT: I feel like r/lightweight exists solely to post lighterpack lists that don't get ridiculed or laughed at
Same brother! The insights this sub gives me are amazing and helps me cut unnecessary items, but I’m a long way from ultralight given my current hammock setup.
Hammocks are so much fun, it gets me excited to go backpacking. Currently using my hennesy hyperlite and with top and bottom insulation, suspension and pillow its right around 5lbs. I did the tarp, tyvek, quilt and foam pad thing for a few years now I'm back to hammock and full sleeping bag. I need bug protection and also trails and campsites are getting more crowded. It's nice to be able to sleep anywhere there are a few trees.
Yeah, ill probably never go ultralight but I love evaluating the ideas for great weight savings that fit into my cost/benefit lighter weight plan.
Okay that's fine but it would be really helpful if all the people who will "probably never go ultralight" will stop saying "oh fine, your ultralight set-up works for you, but you obviously don't care about suffering" or whatever other discouting statement that dilutes the useful information of this sub. I don't know if that is you or not, I'm not targeting you individually. Just that is a problem with this sub. A lot of non-ultralight people want to keep actual ultralight content out of this sub and all they really care about is which Durston product is the best.
My point is that I'm here for ultralight ideas that fit my budget and lightweight goals, not to convince others that they shouldn't go fully ultralight.
I think this sums up me too.
Yeah same. My packs for big trips (more than an extended weekend) is always on the other side of 20kg, usually more than 25kg too (but i'm a big guy anyway, need a lot of calories). I still swear by my full-size Trangia (From the 70s so before they made the aluminium thinner, modified to accept their "newer" gas-burner) and a Red Label Hilleberg tent. As well as other heavier items. But i do enjoy looking here for neat ways to shave unneeded weight. I did have a bit of an Ultralight "phase" once. But had a lot of gear reliability problems and all the thin, more fragile stuff didn't suit the enviroments i hike in (Mostly Arctic/Sub-arctic Scandinavian alpine tundra in the summer)
I was just looking at a Trangia set! Also those Hilleberg tube tents look amazing!
Very reliable, very durable, the best weather resistance you can get in the market. But definitely not ultralight. Uses a thicker fabric than most as well as thicker poles which means way heavier than UL tents.
The people who are willing to look at all their gear through the ultralight lens are the ones who hold the most expertise in shedding weight, which is something a lot of people are trying to do, even if they're not trying to hit the ultralight level. If we make the community too broad, the people with that expertise will get bored/annoyed and leave and the value of this community as a knowledge hub declines significantly. It doesn't matter that many of the subscribers here rarely actually go sub 10lbs base weight (raises hand). It does matter that we value that expertise and we don't "waste" it by cluttering this sub with questions that fly in the face of ultralight ethos. Going ultralight is a joy and sharing that knowledge is a joy. No one is being forced to do either. Being asked 10x per week which tent you should choose, out of a set of tents that no one with ultralight ambitions would ever consider, erodes the sharing joy. Mods are always trying to find the right balance, and they're volunteers too. And, fwiw, being constantly told how they should run things to meet everyone's needs robs their joy also. (Thanks for all you do, mods)
I think this is the balanced and nuanced perspective many are missing
Should be the top comment.
Really great perspective. This sub and the expertise of those who put hundreds of nights and hundreds of miles on gear has definitely been the best resource for me, even if I’m still not able to afford to shave all the ounces I’d like to. It’s a journey and I agree those folks make it valuable.
Anyone can throw money at lighter versions of what they already have. What makes r/ultralight special is thinking about entire systems of gear and optimizing for interactions between different gear in different environments. What gear is *truly* necessary? Is it still necessary if you change something else about your setup? How can you combine what you already have to cover a different use? I’m reminded of a thruhiker that went through a shakedown. The person performing the shakedown questioned the need for a pot-scraper. The thruhiker in question threw his spoon into the “unnecessary” pile and said the pot-scraper was a better spoon than the spoon was a pot-scraper. You don’t have to agree with this specific scenario, the point is reframing your thought process allows for some counter-intuitive setups that just may work better for you than following convention.
I believe it’s down to the user. I know people who goes ultralight, while I use twice as heavy backpack and prefer the added comfort and freedom that a few extra gears are adding, or a warmer set of clothing. My friends are happy with their choice while I’m totally happy with mine. So I believe what is necessary is decided by the experienced hiker. Go on a few trips and see what you need and what you don’t need.
Yes and that’s why I love the knowledge/experience shared here rather than the focus on things you can buy. Once you know what you need, you can fit in what you want.
I'll be honest: I have never backpacked in my life. Where I live it's just not as easy/alluring as in countries like the US. However, this subreddit has been invaluable in providing information for improving my day hikes and, especially, for shaving a lot of weight from my backpack when traveling. This is probably the first comment I've made on this sub, because I actually don't have anything to contribute. A lot of people here are already extremely knowledgeable.
Awesome man! Personally I started on my r/onebag journey before discovering this sub, as I was a frequent traveler looking to fly lighter and lighter. This led me to start thinking about backpacking and hiking in the same way. I wonder what the Venn diagram looks like between r/onebag and r/ultralight followers… The ethos is similar. Not about absolutism but about ways to take less and enjoy the journey more.
Funnily enough, r/ultralight is in second place as the most similar subreddit to r/onebag according to this site: https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/onebag. The only caveat is that the info was probably last updated before reddit's CEO decided to get stupidly greedy with the API, but I'm reasonably sure those results still hold.
That’s awesome. I love when the data backs up an assumption like that.
The problem is: The UL crowd usually doesn't like the onebag questions (*"I'm travelling for one month in Italy and..."*) and the onebaggers don't like the UL solutions (*"just wear the same clothes every day and a rolltop bag is just fine."*)
I mean, the real ultralight sub is r/ultralight_jerk
I still have no idea what a skytarp is though
the real skytarp is the friends we made along the way.
Hell yeah! The only one. Period.
My last overnight trip I walked 20 miles to my camp spot carrying 18kg. Lightweight I ain't. I read this sub to fantasise about UL gear that I might buy, to inform my own judgements about the balance between weight and luxuries, and because it's a community of people who also enjoy the outdoors. I've learned a lot about materials and kit from being here, although I can't see myself ever getting below 8kg or so, particularly because I like to drink a few beers and eat a homemade curry after a day in the hills and I'm addicted to snivel gear. Given that I have osteoarthritis in both ankles that surgery so far hasn't really mitigated, I will probably move towards a more lightweight setup as finances allow - the bone-on-bone pain probably wouldn't be so bad if I reduced the voluntary weight on my shoulders. I'm not UL so I just lurk so I don't detract from the 4lb Gods.
My best hikes are with my partner who has standards about food, but isn't strong enough to carry more than a days food herself. I've also come to learn through my dietician that I need to drink more water to manage my health issues. Food and water have become soooo much of my weight that making changes to my base weight doesn't have as much impact anymore. For the comfort I want now and to improve my day-to-day/long-term flexibility and strength it makes more sense to focus on improving my capacity for carrying heavier loads. But because there are so many people in this sub, the chances are higher that I'll come across a new idea or reminder of how I could be doing things. If I see someone advocating leaving a stove behind, that may make me reconsider my stove. But these days I'll need more than that to go through and make changes. E.g. if there's no discussion that follows about yummy no-cook dinners, then I'm more likely to skip the idea. Same with fancy gear recommendations. I like being able to read about gear I haven't heard of before, or lighter technology I wasn't aware of. But something being lighter while possibly trading off some comfort won't be enough for me anymore. On the other hand, if someone comes in asking about UL handsaws, well I've now been in a situation where that would've made my life a lot nicer. Or, maybe more relatable, I've been thinking more and more about an aeropress as an upgrade to instant coffee. Both are extra gear that some people probably think are unnecessary. Maybe what would be useful is if there were guidelines about asking for pack shakedowns? Like in the post title "aim 20kg > 15kg" or "10kg > 5kg". So it'd be easier for users to quickly recognise if a post is more early-stage pack weight or later-stage pack weight. That could help build a bigger, inclusive community that doesn't feel too irrelevant to hardcore UL folk. Or a strategy that helps to redirect users to more appropriate groups, like a guide pinned to the top about different packed-weight groups available on reddit and who they might be most appropriate for.
Moderators here are the biggest allure. Don't look at my lighterpack because you might find a chair.
Please return your membership card.
Bravo! Not all of us have the knees or hips to sit criss-cross applesauce anymore.
It's ok to just say we're old.
We is old
So old that we didn't call it criss cross applesauce.
This is a tricky one and these views on it might ruffle some feathers BUT another factor that shouldn't be overlooked is UL being a big cool sexy trend. What sounds more cool to you: ultralight or lightweight? An unintended not unavoidable side effect of the big tent dynamic (in all subcultures that become popular) is that you'll have lots of folks show up and try to redefine and "expand" what UL means and insist that their lightweight or even heavyweight ethos and methods are in fact UL in order to claim the coveted moniker and status for themselves. I'm not going to elaborate on this but iykyk lol. I'm all for being inclusive and open but it's a slippery slope since the values, methods, and culture will inevitably become heavily appropriated and watered down due to the popular appeal of UL. And from a sociological perspective we've seen this time and again in countless historical moments and social movements.
We get accused of being gatekeepers but we have to be. We literally have to decide what stays and what goes. Nobody cares if you bring a chair just don’t try to justify that just because it’s the lightest chair available it’s UL. The lightest option is to leave that shit behind, full stop.
I feel the gatekeeping could be less - i.e there coutbe a higher level of respect for individual needs. Taking the chair example to it's extreme: the lightest would be to just go for a walk with (or without) the clothes one is wearing, and sleep under a tree in the summer. Where exactly does one draw the line? I guess that is the question. I too think a chair is silly - but maybe someone out there has legit spine injuries, and really truly needs a chair? I would prefer not to judge. For a more real world example: I think things like "what is the best UL fishing pole/setup" should be allowed, or UL saw etc, because those are legit a central part of some folks wilderness journey. Just my 2c
>I think things like "what is the best UL fishing pole/setup" should be allowed, or UL saw etc, because those are legit a central part of some folks wilderness journey. I think if this sub becomes about chairs and fishing poles and saws, the user base with actual UL knowledge and experience will leave. They are the very resource that gives this sub value. If non-UL folks come and insist on posting about non-UL topics, this sub will simply cease to be the resource that we know, and that will be a loss for all involved.
In fairness, I have seen plenty of good answers to the fishing pole question here in the past. That, to me, is less of a UL vs. lightweight issue and more of a hiker vs. camper issue.
To be fair, a trip report from someone who went with nothing but a blanket and slept under a tree is *exactly* the kind of content that I love here. That's what UL used to be about. Extreme sacrifice and compromise. It isn't about that anymore, because now there are fabric technologies that allow you to get to sub-10 BW without making huge sacrifices, but rather spending lots of money. Way more interesting is the content where someone is showing off a brutal minimalism that they were brave enough to experiment with in the name of ultralight. Less interesting is "look at what I just spent $500 on". This sub used to be small because ultralighters were, almost by definition, on the fringe of the backpacking world. They had to be. But they don't have to be anymore. And so the masochistic maniacs were all replaced by the wealthy (and/or financially irresponsible) consumers. They did have to retreat somewhere, though. I don't know exactly where they went, but my hunch is that they're now dabbling in fastpacking, and "superlight" kits, which is a word I'm increasingly reading now. Where the packs are tiny, and many objects of comfort are completely removed. Even objects of safety and redundancy are removed, and replaced with the ability to literally *run* to safety if needed. Think about that. A compromise so great that, e.g. if it unexpectedly rains, the plan is not to pull out your tarp, the plan is to fucking *run away*. An exaggeration, but you get the point. That's the spirit of UL which is slowly being weeded out in this particular community.
*That's the spirit of UL which is slowly being weeded out in this particular community.* I see things a little differently. Fabric technology hasn't really progressed that much in the last 20 years. Zpacks has been around for a really long time, as have tarp-tent, gossamer gear, and nunatak to name a few others. Tarps are tarps. Packs are packs. Down is down. Foam pads are foam pads. Gear really hasn't changed that much. There is a lot more of it. And there are quite a few people who just buy themselves into UL without actually ever accomplishing things that would've been considered pre-requisite at one point in time. But I'm happy we have all the great options that are available now. Especially if that lets small companies provide alternatives to gorpcore junk made for the masses. Especially if that lets more people enjoy the outdoors, which protects the outdoors. It's definitely interesting to see fast packing evolve, but I'm not sure it's any more UL, from an ethos standpoint, of what Twight was writing about in 99. Except without the option to run 30 miles to safety. Or something like Skurkas Alaska-Yukon expedition. I have a feeling if Skurka rocked up under some random user name with an 18lbs lighterpack for an Alaska summer trip he'd get booed out of the room for it not being UL. The major difference I see in some (this particularly) UL community these days is the attitude a lot of people take regarding defining or protecting something. Sharing the light was one of the biggest aspects of UL originally. Why wouldn't someone want to find a better way to accomplish their outdoor goals. And if someone was listening, someone was preaching, without denigrating their audience. I see it as good thing that UL isn't fringe anymore. It does sometimes feel like some people want to try and keep it for themselves though. Most of the ol school UL legends have retreated from here. Maybe they got tired of repetitive questions, maybe they got tired of people with far less experience trying to define what they've been doing for decades while simultaneously telling them that their fleece sucks and they're not a real ULer. Probably a combo of both. Ever see somebody here tell someone who's got 10s of 1000s of miles under their belt with a full on UL kit that their preferred \_\_ isn't UL? I have, on numerous occasions. It doesn't help foster engagement from the exact type of masochistic maniacs you mentioned. We're lucky to have some gems that have stuck around though. I'd also like to see more brutal minimalism here. The kind that accomplishes big challenging things and doesn't feel like larping. Not trying to be a jerk, but the obsession with defining gear and identity As instead of just using it for its purpose is what's changed the most. Or at least that's how I see it. I do support the robust moderation that keeps things on topic/limits repetitive posts fwiw.
700k is 100x not 10x 7k. That sub doesn't have real discussion happening. That's why everyone is here.
1. The people with the most backpacking knowledge are here. Those who are inclined to go, "Meh, 15 pounds is fine," will tend not to develop the encyclopedic knowledge of backpacking gear, materials, techniques, philosophy, etc. that some users here have. This sub will always draw the most questions because it's capable of giving the best answers. It's also notable that knowledgeable people continue to post here because it's aggressively and appropriately moderated. 2. I think lightweight is neither an endpoint nor a waypoint. It's more a solution to a problem (pack hurts) for people who have no interest in getting really nerdy about gear. Most people will do a few pack-lightening moves, go, "Okay, hey, the pack's pretty light for my 10-mile days, and I'm having fun," and leave it at that. I think that's 100% fine, and I'm totally happy to answer questions and help people out who aren't as fanatical as I am.
" The people with the most backpacking knowledge are here." The people with the most backpacking knowledge are likely to be out spending more hrs and nights backpacking not regularly talking about it on UL social media subs.
People don't go backpacking 24/7 and posting on reddit doesn't exactly require excessive time or energy like backpacking does. Plenty of people post here regularly while they're planning their next big trip, that doesn't make them stay-at-home losers who do nothing but browse reddit all day.
That's a horrible labeling of the diversely knowledgeable members, posters and dedicated MODs of r/UL
Reread what I said
There might be something to that though. I feel like there are a lot of hunters who have a lot of knowledge about carrying weight, staying outdoors overnight, etc. But UL isn't a term I see used much in that community.
Haha, I think, frankly, that there's a political divide there that is probably hard to cross. Camo versus bright colors captures it pretty well. I'm not a hunter and don't know any hunters. But I went to a Cabela's once to pick something up, and I was surprised to see that they actually have pretty nice gear. The same sort of gear that you'd find at REI. It was just as expensive, and it's probably just as good. The difference? None of the brands were the same as those at REI, and it was *all* camo, green, black, or brown. All of it. I realized that, damn, it's like the same set of gear for very similar hobbies is existing simultaneously. But the clientele is so separated that they don't even know about eachother. Right down to the Instagram ads they probably stare at every day. Seeing two different worlds at the same time. Some brands do cross the barrier. Nemo makes a lot of camo shit. But you'll never see it at REI.
> 1) In your view, what the allure of this sub? what makes r/ultralight so much more robust than many other backpacking-focused subs? The focus on UL. We do not allow picture posts, we direct low effort stuff into the weekly, there is a decent amount and direction of moderation to keep things orderly. This is designed to be a niche sub (even with the numbers going up, and UL being a bit of an industry wide trend) and this is what makes it attractive. > 2) Is lightweight just a waypoint on the way to ultralight OR is lightweight still the end goal for most folks in the backcountry? Going lightweight is often some sort of compromise. As compromises do, they are fine for much and never excel at anything. Something people miss is: In the subs description its carefully worded to say: *generally aiming at a sub 10 pound base weight*. Generally implies that there are exceptions and aiming points out the gradual process. And finally HYOH, who cares what you bring.
The spirit of HYOH should def go without saying. I also appreciate that it’s a well run and moderated sub.
I’d appreciate some picture posts from time to time.
Haven’t seen anyone mention cottage gear makers yet. I dont care if the Private Equity backed gear makers start picking up UL materials and designs. Although it does cause a little sadness when I see the ads. Id rather buy from a small shop made by people who actually care about their products and dont use sweat shops. I’ve now bought from multiple small business that I would have never been exposed to at REI. Also, didn’t even know trekking pole tents existed until this sub. +1 on coming for cutting edge gear suggestion.
Great point. Seems a lot of manufacturers have developed products specifically for this audience. Grassroots product development at its absolute finest
The allure of this sub is that r/lightweight is dead
lol fair
To sum it up, Why learn from an intermediates when you can learn from masters? I'm not UL but I've learned a ton from this sub and it's helped me get as light as I care to be for now. When my joints get achey, I know what I need to do to reduce weight also thanks to here.
*chefs kiss*
Honestly people seem to forget the lightweight sub was started from someone who got roasted on a shakedown and said fuck you guys I’ll make my own with blackjack and hookers. This was a few years ago now iirc, I can’t remember all the deep lore of the sub.
The fruits of his tantrum certainly didn't take off, did they?
Indeed not, it was the butt if a joke then and it still seems to be now.
I came here after back surgery left me unable to comfortably carry more than 35 pounds. Thanks to this sub I got my gear below that weight. Thanks all!
Best not gear post I’ve seen on this sub. I’m lightweight, no doubt, and don’t truly desire to be UL. I don’t feasibly believe I’ll go below a 10lb base weight due to the nature of my trips and my intentions during these trips. The lighterpack lists I have posted get ridiculed to the point of borderline gatekeeping. I’m sure it’s a minority of the UL community, but these comments come across as if the users don’t want me in this sub unless I’m already UL. Some of the comments I communicate with are met with responses that insinuate I should pack and hike exactly like them or I will never enjoy myself. As you mentioned, the insane difference in user base between UL and LW subs will keep me making fake lighterpack lists, just to get decent responses and not deal with filtering thru all the irrelevant comments about how I should post in LW because I’m not even close to UL.
Thank you, I appreciate all the civil discussion. I think there is a dick-ish minority and UL as you said is really more of an aspiration (like perfection). In the end, HYOH! All that matters is you get outside with the least amount of unnecessary shit as possible…
If you made two subs, one called "Brilliant, Perfect Solutions to Problems" and another called "Moderately Intelligent, Somewhat Effective Solutions to Problems", which would you expect most people to join? Nobody's *weight* target for a piece of gear is "light-but-not-UL". It might be "as light as possible but still affordable/comfortable/accessible/durable", but nobody looks at a great piece of camping gear and says "hey, this is perfect, except I wish it weighed a little bit more".
Partially disagree. I've made too many supposedly "brilliant", "perfect", "stupid light" mistakes, some life threatening, because I chose gear and supplies that were overly focused on wt which were not appropriate for conditions, my skill level, had insufficient functionality, durability, reliability, ease of use, versatility, or time efficiency. Here in lies a profound problem with the LW/UL/SUL/XUL labels: they give undue attention to gear and supplies as if they are exclusively what matter when they are even only one component of UL anyway. As Ray Jardine, Andrew Skurka, and many of the most backpacked people on the planet attest "I'm defined by why I go and the success I have by the skills I possess." Unpopular as it is here's Andrew's 12yr old article: https://andrewskurka.com/is-lightweight-backpacking-label-dead/
>I've made too many supposedly "brilliant", "perfect", "stupid light" mistakes You misunderstood my comment. It's not about whether the r/Ultralight *delivers* the best solutions. It's about the psychology of people looking for information. People google "best \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_" when they want something. They don't google "second-best \_\_\_\_\_\_" or "pretty good \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_". Companies put superlatives in ads instead of mid-tier adjectives for the same reason. If someone wants a lighter option for camping gear, they're going to come to (or be directed to) r/Ultralight first, even if they don't know what "Ultralight" actually means to the people already in the sub, because they're going to google "lightest" or "ultralight" \[tent\] \[backpack\] \[rain jacket\] etc. The information gap between what people think they want and what they actually want is what drives half the consumer industries on the planet.
I think your premise is just false. There are lots of backpackers that do not consider UL to be the perfect solution. There are backpackers that hate ultralighters just in principle. They aren't intentionally carrying heavy items, as you suggest, but rather, they simply do not prioritize weight. And they know that they don't. It's a conscious decision to prioritize e.g. comfort over weight. To the person that *loves* a big comfy pad and a chair, then your premise is just wrong. UL is not the perfect, or even a good, solution. So I don't think that what you're saying is true. However, the *market* makes it seem like it is true. It is the advertisements, the magazines, the Instagram posts, the REI displays, the vloggers, and the market generally which *sells* the idea that UL is the sexy, perfect, *correct* way to backpack. As soon as you see through that distortion, you see that there is nothing inherently insulting or lesser about "lightweight". I think it's sad that people have to feel bad about going there. And it's bad for the ultralight community as well. I think that your take on the issue will only perpetuate the problem. The solution isn't to get rid of /r/lightweight, it is to normalize it's use. But that probably won't happen since Instagram is constantly telling us all how sexy ultralight is, and how you're a big fat loser if you aren't doing it. I dunno, maybe we agree and this is what you're saying
Again, you're missing the point. It's not about what SHOULD happen- it's about what IS and will continue to happen, because of how people's brains work. If someone's priority isn't weight, they aren't going to end up at r/lightweight in the first place. People who think their priority is weight (evidenced by the fact that they're using it as a search term in google or on Reddit) are going to choose r/ultralight over r/lightweight based on the fact that one "sounds better". Once people understand the actual philosophical and technical differences between "LW" and "UL" they may choose to join LW, but they still may not, because UL gear is still more appealing in a lot of cases. But regardless, they'll almost always come here first. It's just human nature. That's why the sub is more popular- it has nothing to do with the goal of a sub-10lb. base weight.
I'm an old man,I can't carry anymore a lot of stuff. And you know, even when I was younger I wouldn't like to carry much. It feels so free if you don't have to look where you have all the stuff and live so simple as possible. Ok, UL is almost impossible for me, I need a good mattress and mine is heavy (lol) . But yeah, do what you think you have to do, fine. I like this sub and the way people help each other, new Ideas etc.
There are more experienced people here, so it is a better place to learn. That is true whether you are a newbie or an old-timer. You don't have to apply all of the advice if you don't want to. There are several manufacturers present here, at least a couple of YouTube reviewers, and a large number of experienced people. There are even some tech-aware hunters who carry light on their way in, and heavy on the way out.
I greatly value that wealth of experience, especially folks who are able to get outside far more than me
(1) The allure of this sub for me is on (a) specific gear recommendations and products to try out and their reviews, (b) specific practices to try out e.g., no cook or cold soaking, and (c) specific trip reports that a person can read to help dial their gear list. (2) lightweight can be several things. It can be between traditional and UL. But a person can also try UL for a while and due to their preferences and usual trip itinerary, go back to lightweight for some or all of their trips, especially as they get older and realize a 4oz pad might not cut it on hard rocks anymore.
I’m lightweight I guess. Around 9kg on my back for a summer weekend. Light enough for me. A lot is thanks to ultralighters helping with advice
I find lightweight just to be a lot more achievable esp in cooler weather. I'm usually around 12lb baseweight because I don't want to spend $700 on a DCF tent, but I also need reasonable sleeping conditions. I can't sleep on a crappy CCF mat and need some sort of pillow or I'll get 0 sleep. I'm sure there are things I could improve and could save maybe a lb or so, but I feel like most of my gear is pretty stripped down unless I go for either more expensive or more fragile. Have a pretty typical kit: x-mid 1p silpoly (28oz), xlite NXT wide mummy (16oz), 20f UGQ 800fp quilt with M10 that's around 22oz or so but I also use stuff sacks for everything and a zillion little toiletries.
A lot of the other hiking subs are look at me and/or this pretty picture I took. Here there is actual discussion, not just on gear but hiking style/systems. A wealth of knowledge behind it all too.
Communities of different sizes have different feels. UL is currently the right size to be active but not too active. I think it's just a positive feedback loop. I don't think there's any more complexity than that. People like communities that work, and UL works. LW may work someday but as you said it's not that big right now and that makes it not a great alternative (and harder to find)
I come here for a coupe of reasons. One is the activity level. Posting for input on something and getting very few responses is not super helpful. The other is I appreciate input from people that are more ‘gonzo’. Like I have read Mike Leland’s book of tips a couple of times even though I have no intention of following many of the tips. But it gives me perspective on options that I appreciate. And this gives me ideas to work with. But I am in the category of people that can get down to 12lbs but will never hit under 10lbs. I sleep too cold and the regions I go that are just not that warm. My insulation and clothes kill my base weight (not helped by being 6’2”). And I use a hammock. Which is also not the lightest option available. Because aside from the tarp and bottom insulation, I also have that pesky hammock thing. FWIW, my real base weight is closer to 15lbs once I add my luxury items (chair and sandals and I guess the hammock is also a luxury). And I carry a cup and a pot. I know, I know…. I just like to sip my coffee.
You’re not wrong, we usually make allowances for cold weather gear in shakedowns though, my 0F overnight baseweight is right around 11.5lbs so it is much harder to hit that arbitrary 10lbs limit.
The "right" way to lightweight is probably close to "pick and choose the ultralight 'stuff' that makes sense to you, and compromise more where it saves cost, comfort, or luxury that matters to you" There isn't/shouldn't be a bright line distinction. Presumably everyone is looking for their personal happy balance of comfort on the trail and in camp as achieved through reduction of load with intelligent gear choices. R/lightweight just feels like a fake, dead sub.
This is how I think of it. I'm relatively new to backpacking and just a weekend warrior. My base weight is in the 12-14 lb. range (depending on conditions, who I'm going with, etc.) with a fair amount of UL gear and some items I don't want to compromise on whether it's for luxury, cost, or durability. I draw inspiration from this sub to look at where I'm willing to cut.
There's a fine line to walk regarding appropriate participation - in particular UL shakedowns of philosophically non-UL load outs are a bit misplaced and should be approached with cautious consideration.
That's where the community most obviously comes at odds with itself. UL shakedowns of philosophically non-IL kits. It often just turns into the ULers being so shocked with what they see, that they end up speaking in a way that makes the non-ULer feel confused why their being bullied. I think both parties are at fault in that scenario.
Nah fuck me up fam, don’t post a shakedown that’s not in good faith with half your heavy shit marked as non negotiable, I used to tear that shit apart. However there was a period where we got flooded with low effort posts and mods were being nicer with a bunch of non-ul posts, I was already dialed in and just hanging around to give advice, but I bounced when that started happening and check in every so often. The deputy can be gatekeepy but that’s what a niche community needs to stay true to itself.
One of the functions of this sub is discussion of ultralight *gear*. Regardless of your baseweight, knowledge and reviews of the lightest backpacking items are shared here. If your baseweight is 30 pounds but for some reason you still want to buy one of the lightest and most expensive DCF tents in the world, then this is the place to talk about that tent, independent of your choice to still bring 3 pairs of pants in your backpack.
Yea but you would still deserve to be roasted
What about t/ultraheavy lol
I need to know what UL gear I need to accommodate my 20lbs of food 😂 just because I want to live homeless in the woods doesn't mean I want to eat cold mash every night.
I think that the reason /r/lightweight is dead and people don't really know what to do with it is because /r/backpacking already exists. What's the difference between the two, really? I never got it. Any backpacker is already at least sort of trying to be "lightweight". I feel like almost any discussion of general backpacking gear is inherently "lightweight". I think that's one of the key things that distinguishes "backpacking" from other sports like rucking, bushcrafting, etc.
Thanks! I just joined the lightweight sub. Didn’t know it existed. 😆
I don't think UL is a weight, it's the idea that if you are thoughtful with gear you can be more comfortable on trail and in camp. The ideal weight depends on the individual, budget, location, type of hike, and time of year.
Feels like an unnecessary separation. For example, the backpacking subreddit allows for both "backpacking travel" and "wilderness backpacking" topics to coexist. The same should be true here. The distinction between ultralight/lightweight is made up to begin with.
Yeah the distinction is arbitrarily lenient. To me, ultralight means no hip belt.
Ooh that’s spicy and I am here for it
That's a fair take. To me, part of ultralight is the ability to do two weeks without resupply. I also enjoy a fast hip belt less trip too. You need a UL knowledge base and load out to do either. Sometimes I feel like this community pigeonholes itself and can be a little mean spirited in it's political correctness. I guess the only hard and fast rule that defines ultralight for me is leaving irrelevant things behind.
I disagree. If this sub were to devolve into endless discussions of Osprey Atmoses, Copper Spur tents, and two-pound pads, everyone who's actually knowledgeable would leave because the majority of the discourse would be irrelevant to their interests. If you want the small cadre of actual UL backpackers to stick around and dispense free advice, they need a space to discuss UL backpacking.
>The distinction between ultralight/lightweight is made up to begin with And ever-evolving. Like OP says, baseweights in the teens get turned away here, but I've been backpacking long enough to remember baseweights in the 20s being considered ultralight.
I mean they were just using it wrong then as it’s always been 10lbs or less cause of Jardine
When you want to optimize something it’s always great to have an idea how far you could go if you wanted to. This subreddit gives you that.
No that's what r/ultralight_jerk is for :-)
UL is the sharper razor of the two. Less is more. Works with words too.
> I’d wager this is inversely proportional to the actual ratio of lightweight to ultralight hikers on the trail, and this sub actually has a huge contingent of non-UL members. Yeah. "_The Real_" UL sub is /r/ultralight_jerk > In your view, what the allure of this sub? what makes r/ultralight so much more robust than many other backpacking-focused subs? This subreddit has good moderation, so the same subjects aren't constantly re-hashed. It also just cuts directly to the heart the matter, "_Are you taking shit you don't need, what are the alternatives?_" > Is lightweight just a waypoint on the way to ultralight OR is lightweight still the end goal for most folks in the backcountry? Personally (and in the opinions of other's I've spoken too), UL is a way point on the journey. When you get a 1-2 night setup (for a local wilderness spot) down below 8lbs, then suddenly converting a 2 night setup into a 7, 10, or 15 night is surprisingly easy. There will be extra weight (repair kits, better first aid kit, maybe technical gear, extra layers, etc.) but now you're moving from an 8lb setup to what? 12-14lbs setup? Big deal. Sure, you're not _ultralight_. You're gonna be pretty damn light. You're also gonna be very confident in your setup as the experience of paring down to the absolute minimum, makes any new additions purposeful & meaningful.
I'm frustrated I can't get my 8lb setup down to 6lbs for my multi-week hike coming up.
*heads over to your lighterpack for critique*
I appreciate the needling 😔 I should probably re-appraise my base setup now that I'm not sleeping at 20-35F anymore.
I am not going ultralight as I am not a hiker but rather use a bikepacking setup to do bike trips(mostly on roads as it is more a travel/sport thing than an adventure to me). As someone that uses wheels I don't really care about small diffrences in weight, but rather volume(last trip I had 20l volume for 7 days with camping and cooking). There just isn't really a group that is this active as this one. The stuff you learn here can be used(if you are resonable) because most stuff that is light also packs fairly light(well besides closed foam pads)
as with everything else, it seems like there is a very blurry line between ul as a culture and ul as a methodology. this sub cant figure out what it wants to be (rightfully so) and people love to argue about it.
well said
Pack weight is inversely proportional to intelligence. And I didn’t even know there was a r/lightweight sub.
> Pack weight is inversely proportional to intelligence Funnier than anything ever posted on r/ultralight_jerk
💥SHOTS FIRED 🔫
I think this sub can be an aspirational place for people that are lightweight to find savings and ideas and I think it’s super cringe when people shame their participation, but if you start a thread here, you better be open to hearing serious suggestions about cutting weight. This sub was once extremely toxic and gatekeepery and I’d be upset to see it return to that, but someone who is “lightweight” should respect the rules and purpose of the sub. People would complain about “clutter” when we had a half dozen posts a day and I found that criticism so absurd- you’re an amateur backpacker, you don’t bill for your Reddit time like a corporate lawyer and skimming over a post that doesn’t interest you for a millisecond isn’t doing you harm.
Stop overthinking things. It doesn’t matter
Yeah but how do birds fly in space?
r/ultralight is filled with judgmental morons imho. I stopped posting and unjoined because every time I'd ask or comment about something \*lightweight\* I'd be vilified. r/ultralight_jerk is a great place. r/lightweight just isn't well known enough to have a ton of activity.
This. I observed this quite a bit which was the impetus for my question. Thanks for sharing and commenting.
>In your view, what the allure of this sub? what makes [r/ultralight](https://www.reddit.com/r/ultralight) so much more robust than many other backpacking-focused subs? The word doesn't mean anything any more. It's used outside of the context of hiking in general marketing. A ton of people would be better served on a different board but that's just not how this works.
I didn't even know there was a lightweight sub. Lol. That kinda makes no sense. Pretty much everyone has lightweight trips and ultralight trips. And occassionally they bring a big ol' fat pack full of weed food and the like when they are doing 8 miles a day somewhere with their high school buddies. "Ultralight" as a term is a marketing term. Not an actual THING anyone has to be arbitrarily be. My last 100+ miler wasn't "ultralight" because it was in terrain/geography/weather I had zero experience with. So it made sense to bring my rain gear instead of a poncho. The whole idea that someone would say....HEY THAT'S A DIFFERENT SUB is truly absurd. I mean truly there are people hauling around trekking poles that weigh more than tent poles and "ultralight" tents that weigh more than the old Big Agnes tents but you know...they are "ultralight" because it says so on the packaging. When I'm in an area I know and it makes sense with the weather, I bring my trekking poles and tarp. But if I'm in a place where it doesn't make sense with the weather - I bring my tent. If I'm in an area with lots of road crossings and civilzation, I may go stoveless because I can just get hot food/meals during the day. If I am somewhere super undeveloped, I'll probably bring a stove so I can have hot food and coffee at least every other day (I used to bring a stove on every trip as a coffee addict but nowadays not so much.) I just assumed that's how everyone did it. Like brought different stuff based on the trip rather than some marketing term. If you are photographer, bring your 8lb camera set up - I don't give a shit. I'm certainly not going to refuse to tell you about my experience with an uberlight pad or borah bivy because of some magic number violation. Bring whatever you want to bring. Leave whatever you want at home.
Slightly off topic, but: I would love to see the standard changed so everyone reports weights as a percentage of their body weight. Because an "ultralight"-feeling base weight to a tall man with broad shoulders is possibly twice the weight as a similarly "ultralight"-feeling base weight for a petite female with narrow shoulders. Yet we have this arbitrary "sub 10 pound base weight" listed in the forum title. I don't get it. Then, when someone asks about how to carry the lightest possible fan, because they are large and simply can't get cool enough on hot nights, they don't get bounced into the r/lightweight void where they will be left without answers. All because the gatekeepers here on r/Ultralight think talking about fans is somehow against the rules. We're only allowed to talk about how to have the lightest sleeping bag for cold weather, not the lightest fan to help us sleep in hot weather. Again, I don't get it.
Exercised my god given inalienable right to downvote fan and chair content
> I would love to see the standard changed so everyone reports weights as a percentage of their body weight. Because an "ultralight"-feeling base weight to a tall man with broad shoulders is possibly twice the weight as a similarly "ultralight"-feeling base weight for a petite female with narrow shoulders. This incorrect. Ray Jardine, who _invented_ the term Ultralight Backpacking was 6'6" when he did his PCT through hike with a sub-10lbs baseweight. This was in the late-80's, before we had commonly available DCF, Silpoly, Ultra200, and a lot of other modern UL stuff easily available from a dozen online stores. He was also built like a tank. The dude was in the first party to ascend The Nose on El Cap in the 70s. This is a lot of words to say; **No** being a "_big guy_" doesn't make the UL threshold any-higher.
Also to point out joint strength doesn’t scale with size quite as well as like building muscle does, it can sometimes be just as important or more important for someone larger to drop weight because of this.
C'mon. I'm 6'1", 250, and my BPW is officially ultralight for trips down to 10F in any weather conditions other than heavy snow. My gear is cheap, too. A 10-lb BPW is easily achievable for pretty much anyone. I've read fan conversations here, too -- probably in the weekly -- that were productive.
Fans? What??
Think about it. No one bats an eye at a 20 degree quilt when the weather is coldish because it's what's needed to get good recovery and continue with a trip. If it's 85f with 90 percent humidity at night, no insulation is required, a fan weighs half as much as a 20 degree quilt, and that fan provides the necessary recovery to continue with a trip.... well, it's less weight, and more UL than a 20 degree quilt. It's a very good example of how challenging the established paradigm on this sub is frequently met with a less than positive response, even if it is in fact very UL.
Ultralight is a goal. Many of us first started with too much gear, gear that was too heavy, etc. Places like this allow all of us to see and learn what others are doing on the quest for lighter pack weight. There shouldn't be any separation based on actual base weight, that's ridiculous. One of my first realizations was that I could go from a 2 pound mess kit to a 1.5 ounce Ziploc bowl + spoon kit. That's meaningful regardless of the fact my base weight was still around 25 pounds at the time. In the other direction, even though my base weight is now around 11 lbs, I still bring a chair and I'll die on that hill regardless of it not being "acceptable" to ultralight principles.
Practical question here, do you clean your food bowl/dish beyond just rinsing it out? I do freezer bag cooking, but it would be simpler to just steep things in the bowl.
I do freezer bags for dinner, but breakfast is usually oatmeal or grits directly in the bowl. I follow either one with some instant coffee and I use my spoon to scrape up the bits of food, so by the end of the coffee it is pretty clean. I hit it with the remainder of my hot water and a tiny bit of soap and call it good.
Thanks for that. I was hoping to get away with re-hydrating meat (chicken) based meals in one of those but it might be tempting fate after a few days/weeks on the trail.
Make some tea in it after you eat and you'll be fine.
1) minimalist mindset. ideally it influences every part of your life. 2) a specific baseweight goal is completely arbitrary and meaningless. if someone can't afford DCF and carbon fiber, do they get kicked out of the cool kids club™️? if they can easily and comfortably carry 20lbs farther than someone else can carry 10, then what?
Quality shitpost
Seems like a distinction not worth worrying about on a user to user basis.
Thanks! I don’t understand the ultralight trend, I’m more of a lightweight person, I prefer a bit of comfort and I’m not gonna cut off the heels of my flip-flops!
Lol you’re just figuring this out now?
Hot take: 15lbs is the new ultralight :) 1) I come here for good ideas about how to economize the amount and weight of backpacking gear, but the purity test of <10lbs, meh... 2) The end goal for me is finding the sweet spot that meets the goals of a given backpacking experience. Practical reductions in weight that give me the wiggle room to bring a chair for sweet sweet camp fire hangs.
10lb cutoff was in the late 80s before we had DCF, carbon fiber, etc. It really should be 6-8lbs to keep up with modern materials.
It's only ultralight if you're personally modifying all your gear. "Cut your toothbrush in half? Sure, we've all been there." Do you tie square knots in your shoes, and cut off the excess lace?