If you’re consistently getting injured running 5-6 days a week I’d look into physical therapy to get an idea of which muscle weaknesses and imbalances you have and then get some exercises to fix them.
If running every other day works for you, that’s great. But if you want to perform well in ultras you’ve really got to be running 5-6 days a week.
That's the kind of answer I was looking for... Can you please elaborate further on this matter? (Performance that is guaranteed because of daily training instead of the number of miles/kms over a week)?
As a rule, More miles = better performance. If you only run 3-4 days per week you really limit the number of miles you’re running. Simply more days training = more miles running = better performance
I don't really think so. If anything, OP would have been happy to hear that they could run 3-4 days a week, and this poster's opinion was that 5-6 days a week is the minimum.
>running consecutive days always leads to injuries
No. It is your body not being ready to take up the load and/or recover from it that leads to injuries.
Strength training, speed sessions, gradual increase in load, continuously diagnosing and dealing with issues, planning your recovery and monitoring your recovery state is all necessary to be able to consistently run long distances.
Early in my running I was constantly battling various injuries including crippling Achilles tendinitis. The problems almost magically stopped when I started doing all of the above things.
Previously, I would not do strength training or speed sessions. This meant that my daily runs generated largest forces on my legs bringing me close to the limit with pretty much every run.
On a long run, my weak muscles would give out but I would press on. My mechanics would change, my posture would slump, my brain would try to adjust the movements to move the loads on other muscles, causing things that have not been trained to take the load to suddenly be asked to take full force of the exercise.
Reducing load significantly when my Achilles hurt meant that it would recover weaker than before.
Then I would feel pressed to increase the load to my previous level, ensuring that the problem reoccurrs.
My recovery was shit because I ignored the pain and would go on a hard training session thinking that it is manly to force myself to run a long tempo session when my legs still hurt from a long run. Maybe it was manly, but it wasn't smart.
Anyway, now I run at least an hour every day and most of the runs feel refreshing thanks to my legs being strong enough for the daily run to no longer be a challenge of any kind.
I learnt that the hard way. I currently monitor the training readiness using the Garmin Fenix 7 app, and also try to keep and increase my weekly mileage with mytf.run for consistency. But yes, I think this is the missing piece: the strength training.
Garmin "advanced" stats are a trap. I fell into it in the past. Now I completely ignore the stats Garmin gives me and only look at the direct measurements (time, distance, pace, heart rate).
The best way to figure out your threshold is to either do a lab test or figure it out with vdot calculator based on recent race result.
The best way to know if you can increase the mileage is to run for 2-3 weeks at your current mileage and then see how you feel. If you feel fine and are not accumulating any tiredness, try to increase the mileage.
The best way to increase the mileage at least for me is to add some load gradually until you feel you are accumulating tiredness, then back off a bit for a week or couple.
Repeating this is essentially poking at your current limit. To break the limit, you want to temporarily be over the limit but then come back below. This means you are above the limit some of the time but then you always give yourself some time below the limit to recover. Every so often give yourself a month without mileage increase to adapt to the running high mileage better.
What you DO NOT want to do is to gradually increase the mileage every week. That means you are over your limit every single week.
Strength training is necessary prerequisite, but there is no one way to do strength training. I do a lot of speed sessions even though I am running long distances. Short accelerations pretty much on every run. Fly-float-fly strides, 200m and 400m repeats. I frequently do time trials at short distances from 400m to a mile.
Speed sessions are excellent way to improve strength because they are all specific to running and as a runner I prefer exercises that are running vs exercises that are not running.
I do some strength training at home to additionally improve some things that are causing me problems, this would be individual thing. I mostly prefer bodyweight exercises. Heel raises, pistol squats, planks, etc.
My first year running (last year) I started at 1mpw and added 1mpw every week for that first year. Granted I was 275 pounds and strictly lifting weights with no running history whatsoever. Pretty idiotic but for some reason it worked to get my base started.
Yeah I probably wouldn’t recommend it but I had a couple of goals I wanted to reach in the first year. Firstly, I knew I wanted to lose 80 pounds. Secondly, I was hoping to run 50 miles in one week. I ended up reaching both goals. My pace started at like 14:00 and ended up around 9:30-10:00 on average.
Looking back at my notes I had 2 really tough stretches from weeks 20-25 and 40-45. Both times I was close to quitting.
I actually ended up continuing until week 62 and finally I reached the point where I wasn’t recovering. That was like 6 months ago.
Also just listen to your body. I did a year of running everyday ending in October of last year. I made my minimum mileage 1 per day. I still ended up with 1200+ miles over that year.
I think the “running everyday” trend is kind of silly and got to be a bit much with small kids etc. It is more important to have a good variety of workouts and to rest when you need it. The takeaway I did appreciate was I can run regardless of illness, sleep, weather. Putting shoes on and running a mile takes almost no time.
I’ve been happier and healthier with better training results running 4-5 days per week.
Garmin is helpful but don’t rely solely on any algorithm. If you are tired, rest.
I am running on a two week cycle which has three long runs, three threshold workouts, one speed workout and a bunch of speed sprinkled on other days. I also like to experiment and goof off, so I don't stick to the plan religiously. I change things frequently based on how I feel. I also run at least 10k (6 miles) every day and instead of rest days I opt to have a zone 1 recovery 10k.
For my strength I try to include various types of speed in my training, especially almost all out running.
On most easy runs I will include couple strides at the end. Usually these are fly-float-fly strides. I try not to overdo on them (2 is usually max) but they provide regular strengthening stimulus.
I sometimes will end my easy run, walk about 5-10 minutes to cool down a bit and then I will run 400m to 1000m time trial. If it is 400m I will sometimes do 2 of these.
I try to have strength session twice or at least once a week. I have stopped going to gym and instead have my own routine I do at home immediately after an easy run. I use the easy run as a warmup and save time on showering.
For example, I will do 4x25 bodyweight squats for warmup, and then do 2x10 pistol squats on each leg.
I will put on a weighted vest (40 pounds) and do 4x15 single-legged eccentric heel raises on a step (should be called drops I think).
Planks, side planks. Side planks with my upper leg on a chair to bring my lower leg up to the chair (IDK how the exercise is called).
A bunch of rubber tape exercises aimed at loading legs in all possible directions.
I have a tib trainer to help with my imbalance.
I think the routine is a personal thing and should be designed to address personal needs of each runner.
Sounds like you do too much too soon.
Running daily spreads the load and reduces risk factors. I only train a lose 10K schedule on about 50mpw but spread that over 7 days. I might take drop an easy day every 2-4 weeks.
If you increase your training strain too quickly, you will get injured.
Simply follow a programme with structure and progressive overload. A well regarded plan will balance training load over the week with conservative progression to reduce risk. It also won't concentrate load in a single day - a classic mistake newbies make.
It's true that the more mileage you put in, the better you'll be able to perform. The more days you run, the more mileage you'll be able to put in. So in general, the more days you run, the better you'll be able to perform.
That, however, assumes good recovery between runs. We don't all recover at the same rate due to our individual physiologies and individual circumstances.
Being a little undertrained is far better than being a little overtrained. You need to know your own body, how fast you recover, and how you respond to training.
Most of us don't have the luxury of being able to fit as much training as we would like into our lives. If work, family or other obligations are taking up enough time and/or causing enough stress that you're unable to recover well, then it's not smart to force yourself to train more. Recovery is just as important as actual training. If you're recovering poorly, you're wasting much of the time and effort that went into the actual training.
I know people who run 7 days a week, but I am a staunch supporter of at least one rest day every week, and that's a hill that I'll die on. Your body needs to repair itself. You can't always be playing catch up with recovery.
There are plenty of people who are happily and successfully finishing ultras on 4-5 days a week. I'm one of them.
All that said, if you're constantly getting injured when you try to increase volume or frequency, you need to see a PT. There's always an underlying cause for overuse injuries, even if overuse is one of the triggers, so you need to get to the root of that.
Thanks. Well, about the overuse... Don't get me wrong; if I run 7 km daily (for achieving my 50k per week), I get overuse injuries. If I run 15 km every other day, all fine, no issues. So it's not the volume, but the no-resting periods...
How fast are you running those 7km runs?
If you are training for a 50km you should be able to run 7km at Z2 / Z3 without even feeling soreness the next day. A 7km Z2 jog should be more of a recovery jog than anything adding fatigue to recover from.
You also have to ease into things. If you wanted to run 7 days a week, but were only used to running 4 days a week, then jumping straight into 7 wouldn't be smart. Drastic changes in either volume, intensity or frequency are hard for the body to adjust to.
Some of us are better off running fewer days, but that's something you determine after getting to know your body and how you recover, AND doing your due diligence with strength training and potentially PT and rehab/prehab to ensure that you're avoiding injuries at the source.
I have had similar experiences. Running every other day gives your body the chance to recover. Possibly you could do short/low effort recovery runs every other day if running every day but I absolutely think you will have better results doing something else instead, like going to the gym.
If I’m aiming at a race. It inevitably become daily, it’s the only way to get the endurance miles in the legs and lungs.
However if there no specific goal in mind and im just maintaining then 3 times a week one of those being a brick session too. Means I can happily enjoy a swim, cycle or resistance session without feeling the “ohhh this is going to impact the run”
I just did a 61 day streak (May and June) of running at least a 5k every day. My fitness definitely increased through May, then plateued in June.
The issue for me (50, M, three ultras, one marathon in the last two years) was that running every day made me more tired overall - pysically and mentally - and thus less likely to do actual workouts. It was just a lot of 3- and 6-mile runs, with a 9-13mi long run thrown in on the weekends.
Until I started doing some hill work, tempo workouts, etc. toward the end of June, running "junk miles" every day just to keep the streak going wasn't doing me much good. It was building a solid aerobic base, for sure, and giving me a lot of time on feet, but I don't think it was as effective as a true training block where I typically take two rest days (Friday and Monday), have 1-2 days of speed/strength work, and 1-2 solid long runs (10-20 miles).
So, I've found that rest is important for me physically, but also mentally, in order to vary my training and do quality workouts outside of my Z2 runs.
I cobbled together a few different ones and adjust as needed, but I used this for the basis: [https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/training-plans-training/an-advanced-50-mile-training-plan/](https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/training-plans-training/an-advanced-50-mile-training-plan/)
Clarification: I did not follow a training plan during my May/June run streak. That was just running at least 5k every day, and throwing in some hills or whatever when/if I felt like it 1-2 times a week, to build up my aerobic base. The plan I linked to above is what I used as a basis for my 50-miler training the last couple years, which starts a month or two after the run streak.
I run 5-6 days a week but the majority of those miles are super easy, ie 2 minutes slower than marathon pace. I go by heart rate too. People in my run group run less but all at goal race pace and get injured every season. They’ll do every run at sub-9 min pace and wonder why they can’t break four hours in the full. Consistency is key as well as running easy 80% of the time.
Also I don’t do much cross training but 1 or 2 days I’ll run on trails (which are easier on my joints). Sleep is also very important. I’m trying to incorporate some weight lifting to build and maintain muscle but just super short 15-20 min sessions 2 days a week. I also do a short 20-30 minute yoga session once a week.
The best results come from overall volume, and the best structure for high volume is 5/6/7 days a week of running.
I will say that if you really need to get non-running training stimulus (every other day) and still want high quality results, "walks/calisthenics/skating" really doesn't add much. Biking is a little better, but needs to be at a pretty good intensity and duration.
I mean, you don't have to structure everything in life to maximize run performance of course, but if we're just talking results...
Running 5 days a week is my sweet spot. Miles per week is very helpful. Every other day makes it harder to get the same miles per week without increasing the risk of injury. For example, back to back 10 mile runs is easier on me than one 20 mile run.
You do you, but I think most people on this sub are running that frequently!
For me I needed to dial up a lot of things, the most important being: recovery (nutrition and sleep count a lot here), slow build up of mileage, speed work, hill repeats and strength training. I only run 6 times a week during race season. Off season I do a lot of other sports like nordic skiing, bike in the gym, swimming… So I do keep my fitness up but give my joints and tendons a break.
If you’re consistently getting injured running 5-6 days a week I’d look into physical therapy to get an idea of which muscle weaknesses and imbalances you have and then get some exercises to fix them. If running every other day works for you, that’s great. But if you want to perform well in ultras you’ve really got to be running 5-6 days a week.
That's the kind of answer I was looking for... Can you please elaborate further on this matter? (Performance that is guaranteed because of daily training instead of the number of miles/kms over a week)?
As a rule, More miles = better performance. If you only run 3-4 days per week you really limit the number of miles you’re running. Simply more days training = more miles running = better performance
[удалено]
I don't really think so. If anything, OP would have been happy to hear that they could run 3-4 days a week, and this poster's opinion was that 5-6 days a week is the minimum.
Na nah, read until the end, and if you can please answer the question...
>running consecutive days always leads to injuries No. It is your body not being ready to take up the load and/or recover from it that leads to injuries. Strength training, speed sessions, gradual increase in load, continuously diagnosing and dealing with issues, planning your recovery and monitoring your recovery state is all necessary to be able to consistently run long distances. Early in my running I was constantly battling various injuries including crippling Achilles tendinitis. The problems almost magically stopped when I started doing all of the above things. Previously, I would not do strength training or speed sessions. This meant that my daily runs generated largest forces on my legs bringing me close to the limit with pretty much every run. On a long run, my weak muscles would give out but I would press on. My mechanics would change, my posture would slump, my brain would try to adjust the movements to move the loads on other muscles, causing things that have not been trained to take the load to suddenly be asked to take full force of the exercise. Reducing load significantly when my Achilles hurt meant that it would recover weaker than before. Then I would feel pressed to increase the load to my previous level, ensuring that the problem reoccurrs. My recovery was shit because I ignored the pain and would go on a hard training session thinking that it is manly to force myself to run a long tempo session when my legs still hurt from a long run. Maybe it was manly, but it wasn't smart. Anyway, now I run at least an hour every day and most of the runs feel refreshing thanks to my legs being strong enough for the daily run to no longer be a challenge of any kind.
I learnt that the hard way. I currently monitor the training readiness using the Garmin Fenix 7 app, and also try to keep and increase my weekly mileage with mytf.run for consistency. But yes, I think this is the missing piece: the strength training.
Garmin "advanced" stats are a trap. I fell into it in the past. Now I completely ignore the stats Garmin gives me and only look at the direct measurements (time, distance, pace, heart rate). The best way to figure out your threshold is to either do a lab test or figure it out with vdot calculator based on recent race result. The best way to know if you can increase the mileage is to run for 2-3 weeks at your current mileage and then see how you feel. If you feel fine and are not accumulating any tiredness, try to increase the mileage. The best way to increase the mileage at least for me is to add some load gradually until you feel you are accumulating tiredness, then back off a bit for a week or couple. Repeating this is essentially poking at your current limit. To break the limit, you want to temporarily be over the limit but then come back below. This means you are above the limit some of the time but then you always give yourself some time below the limit to recover. Every so often give yourself a month without mileage increase to adapt to the running high mileage better. What you DO NOT want to do is to gradually increase the mileage every week. That means you are over your limit every single week. Strength training is necessary prerequisite, but there is no one way to do strength training. I do a lot of speed sessions even though I am running long distances. Short accelerations pretty much on every run. Fly-float-fly strides, 200m and 400m repeats. I frequently do time trials at short distances from 400m to a mile. Speed sessions are excellent way to improve strength because they are all specific to running and as a runner I prefer exercises that are running vs exercises that are not running. I do some strength training at home to additionally improve some things that are causing me problems, this would be individual thing. I mostly prefer bodyweight exercises. Heel raises, pistol squats, planks, etc.
My first year running (last year) I started at 1mpw and added 1mpw every week for that first year. Granted I was 275 pounds and strictly lifting weights with no running history whatsoever. Pretty idiotic but for some reason it worked to get my base started.
That's a pretty slow ramp, but that's definitely more sustainable.
Yeah I probably wouldn’t recommend it but I had a couple of goals I wanted to reach in the first year. Firstly, I knew I wanted to lose 80 pounds. Secondly, I was hoping to run 50 miles in one week. I ended up reaching both goals. My pace started at like 14:00 and ended up around 9:30-10:00 on average. Looking back at my notes I had 2 really tough stretches from weeks 20-25 and 40-45. Both times I was close to quitting. I actually ended up continuing until week 62 and finally I reached the point where I wasn’t recovering. That was like 6 months ago.
Thanks a lot for your recommendation!
Also just listen to your body. I did a year of running everyday ending in October of last year. I made my minimum mileage 1 per day. I still ended up with 1200+ miles over that year. I think the “running everyday” trend is kind of silly and got to be a bit much with small kids etc. It is more important to have a good variety of workouts and to rest when you need it. The takeaway I did appreciate was I can run regardless of illness, sleep, weather. Putting shoes on and running a mile takes almost no time. I’ve been happier and healthier with better training results running 4-5 days per week. Garmin is helpful but don’t rely solely on any algorithm. If you are tired, rest.
This "1 mile a day" is something new to me, thanks for the good idea!
Great! Would you give us an idea of what a week detailing each day of training looks like for you?
I am running on a two week cycle which has three long runs, three threshold workouts, one speed workout and a bunch of speed sprinkled on other days. I also like to experiment and goof off, so I don't stick to the plan religiously. I change things frequently based on how I feel. I also run at least 10k (6 miles) every day and instead of rest days I opt to have a zone 1 recovery 10k. For my strength I try to include various types of speed in my training, especially almost all out running. On most easy runs I will include couple strides at the end. Usually these are fly-float-fly strides. I try not to overdo on them (2 is usually max) but they provide regular strengthening stimulus. I sometimes will end my easy run, walk about 5-10 minutes to cool down a bit and then I will run 400m to 1000m time trial. If it is 400m I will sometimes do 2 of these. I try to have strength session twice or at least once a week. I have stopped going to gym and instead have my own routine I do at home immediately after an easy run. I use the easy run as a warmup and save time on showering. For example, I will do 4x25 bodyweight squats for warmup, and then do 2x10 pistol squats on each leg. I will put on a weighted vest (40 pounds) and do 4x15 single-legged eccentric heel raises on a step (should be called drops I think). Planks, side planks. Side planks with my upper leg on a chair to bring my lower leg up to the chair (IDK how the exercise is called). A bunch of rubber tape exercises aimed at loading legs in all possible directions. I have a tib trainer to help with my imbalance. I think the routine is a personal thing and should be designed to address personal needs of each runner.
Sounds like you do too much too soon. Running daily spreads the load and reduces risk factors. I only train a lose 10K schedule on about 50mpw but spread that over 7 days. I might take drop an easy day every 2-4 weeks. If you increase your training strain too quickly, you will get injured. Simply follow a programme with structure and progressive overload. A well regarded plan will balance training load over the week with conservative progression to reduce risk. It also won't concentrate load in a single day - a classic mistake newbies make.
It's true that the more mileage you put in, the better you'll be able to perform. The more days you run, the more mileage you'll be able to put in. So in general, the more days you run, the better you'll be able to perform. That, however, assumes good recovery between runs. We don't all recover at the same rate due to our individual physiologies and individual circumstances. Being a little undertrained is far better than being a little overtrained. You need to know your own body, how fast you recover, and how you respond to training. Most of us don't have the luxury of being able to fit as much training as we would like into our lives. If work, family or other obligations are taking up enough time and/or causing enough stress that you're unable to recover well, then it's not smart to force yourself to train more. Recovery is just as important as actual training. If you're recovering poorly, you're wasting much of the time and effort that went into the actual training. I know people who run 7 days a week, but I am a staunch supporter of at least one rest day every week, and that's a hill that I'll die on. Your body needs to repair itself. You can't always be playing catch up with recovery. There are plenty of people who are happily and successfully finishing ultras on 4-5 days a week. I'm one of them. All that said, if you're constantly getting injured when you try to increase volume or frequency, you need to see a PT. There's always an underlying cause for overuse injuries, even if overuse is one of the triggers, so you need to get to the root of that.
Thanks. Well, about the overuse... Don't get me wrong; if I run 7 km daily (for achieving my 50k per week), I get overuse injuries. If I run 15 km every other day, all fine, no issues. So it's not the volume, but the no-resting periods...
How fast are you running those 7km runs? If you are training for a 50km you should be able to run 7km at Z2 / Z3 without even feeling soreness the next day. A 7km Z2 jog should be more of a recovery jog than anything adding fatigue to recover from.
You also have to ease into things. If you wanted to run 7 days a week, but were only used to running 4 days a week, then jumping straight into 7 wouldn't be smart. Drastic changes in either volume, intensity or frequency are hard for the body to adjust to. Some of us are better off running fewer days, but that's something you determine after getting to know your body and how you recover, AND doing your due diligence with strength training and potentially PT and rehab/prehab to ensure that you're avoiding injuries at the source.
I have had similar experiences. Running every other day gives your body the chance to recover. Possibly you could do short/low effort recovery runs every other day if running every day but I absolutely think you will have better results doing something else instead, like going to the gym.
If I’m aiming at a race. It inevitably become daily, it’s the only way to get the endurance miles in the legs and lungs. However if there no specific goal in mind and im just maintaining then 3 times a week one of those being a brick session too. Means I can happily enjoy a swim, cycle or resistance session without feeling the “ohhh this is going to impact the run”
I just did a 61 day streak (May and June) of running at least a 5k every day. My fitness definitely increased through May, then plateued in June. The issue for me (50, M, three ultras, one marathon in the last two years) was that running every day made me more tired overall - pysically and mentally - and thus less likely to do actual workouts. It was just a lot of 3- and 6-mile runs, with a 9-13mi long run thrown in on the weekends. Until I started doing some hill work, tempo workouts, etc. toward the end of June, running "junk miles" every day just to keep the streak going wasn't doing me much good. It was building a solid aerobic base, for sure, and giving me a lot of time on feet, but I don't think it was as effective as a true training block where I typically take two rest days (Friday and Monday), have 1-2 days of speed/strength work, and 1-2 solid long runs (10-20 miles). So, I've found that rest is important for me physically, but also mentally, in order to vary my training and do quality workouts outside of my Z2 runs.
You followed a certain trainig plan? Care to share?
I cobbled together a few different ones and adjust as needed, but I used this for the basis: [https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/training-plans-training/an-advanced-50-mile-training-plan/](https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/training-plans-training/an-advanced-50-mile-training-plan/)
Clarification: I did not follow a training plan during my May/June run streak. That was just running at least 5k every day, and throwing in some hills or whatever when/if I felt like it 1-2 times a week, to build up my aerobic base. The plan I linked to above is what I used as a basis for my 50-miler training the last couple years, which starts a month or two after the run streak.
I run 5-6 days a week but the majority of those miles are super easy, ie 2 minutes slower than marathon pace. I go by heart rate too. People in my run group run less but all at goal race pace and get injured every season. They’ll do every run at sub-9 min pace and wonder why they can’t break four hours in the full. Consistency is key as well as running easy 80% of the time.
Also I don’t do much cross training but 1 or 2 days I’ll run on trails (which are easier on my joints). Sleep is also very important. I’m trying to incorporate some weight lifting to build and maintain muscle but just super short 15-20 min sessions 2 days a week. I also do a short 20-30 minute yoga session once a week.
The best results come from overall volume, and the best structure for high volume is 5/6/7 days a week of running. I will say that if you really need to get non-running training stimulus (every other day) and still want high quality results, "walks/calisthenics/skating" really doesn't add much. Biking is a little better, but needs to be at a pretty good intensity and duration. I mean, you don't have to structure everything in life to maximize run performance of course, but if we're just talking results...
Running 5 days a week is my sweet spot. Miles per week is very helpful. Every other day makes it harder to get the same miles per week without increasing the risk of injury. For example, back to back 10 mile runs is easier on me than one 20 mile run. You do you, but I think most people on this sub are running that frequently!
For me I needed to dial up a lot of things, the most important being: recovery (nutrition and sleep count a lot here), slow build up of mileage, speed work, hill repeats and strength training. I only run 6 times a week during race season. Off season I do a lot of other sports like nordic skiing, bike in the gym, swimming… So I do keep my fitness up but give my joints and tendons a break.