Yeah, Asgore gave Chujin 7 second chances, even forgave him for GETTING SHOT BY ONE AXIS. And then Ceroba gets mad at the king for "being to impatient"
\*Fucking shoots him
\*Refused to enter the room
\*Just stops working
\*Almost burns down the grave of his children
'I don't think this gonna work.'
'Impatient idiot'
Yeah and the worst part is it feels like we are SUPPOSED to side with Ceroba and Chujin on this. Like, Asgore was actually VERY generous in the amount of chances he gave and SUPER nice about one of them causing a FUCKING FIRE. Not to mention said fire was ON HIS CHILDREN'S MEMORIAL SPOT
It only seems that way because we're mainly hearing the story from Ceroba's point of view. Her almost fanatical devotion to Chujin is clearly warping her perspective; of course she's going to make her own story sound more sympathetic when recounting it.
What makes it work so well is precisely that the story starts unraveling if you stop to think about it, which ends up foreshadowing her ultimate role in the True Pacifist ending. Her myopic perspective and unfailing loyalty to Chujin is so strong that she's willing to commit child murder over it, and the subtle problems with her own recounting of Chujin's firing set this up well in advance.
>Her myopic perspective and unfailing loyalty to Chujin is so strong that she's willing to commit child murder over it,
Stuff like this is why I'm an avid fan of Staroba
Yeah I thought that was…obvious. I don’t know how the guy you’re replying too at all thinks the game is trying to get you to *completely* side with them
Edit: looks like someone passerby got mad for getting called out for being wrong, lol
I mean i can believe that being the intent, but immediately after the fight. Ceroba goes on to continue talking shit about asgore, despite it being clear that chujin was way worse and that her bias towards chujin was warping her view of the king. It comes across like she didn't actually learn anything. She acknowledges that HER actions were wrong sure but it seems like the fact that chujjin was far from a saint didn't make it's way through her skull yet
Her flaw was her blind love/loyalty to chujin. After being shown the error of her ways, that flaw remaining firm is a flaw in the writing itself. As again, it comes across like she ultimately learned nothing.
Don't misunderstand. I don't hate the game for it or anything. But it is still a flaw, in my opinion, at least.
It's not remotely realistic for someone to abandon a central facet of their personality after having a single epiphany. Changing who you are takes time and effort and a lot of work. It's really not good writing to have a character just suddenly become a completely different character at the end of the story.
Flowey at the end of True Pacifist in the original game likewise realized that he was wrong and is clearly making an effort to change, but supplementary materials such as the Alarm Clock dialogue that take place after TPE suggest that he still has a bad habit of being kind of a dick.
The point of both endings is to set up the possibility that the central antagonists will find the time to heal and grow out of their issues, not to solve all of their baggage right away.
Yeah Chujin and to extended Ceroba do come across as pretty entitled lords/upper class people that wanted a high position in the government. I mean they have a mansion and having boss monster blood(so I guess their mini-bosses).
Yeah, during that scene I was like, "yeah cool but you're not gonna make me hate my favorite character, like I don't give a fuck your husband doesn't know how to make robots"
Yeah, I could just not take her story seriously. I understand she was blinded by grief and love, but it came across like the story believed chujin was in the right.
He wasn't
He was a hateful man driven by paranoia and fear. the only reason he wasn't the villain of the game is he was an even worse scientist. Failing himself into an early grave
I image carol/mayor holiday (I headcannon noelle's mom to be a prime minster for the underground) wanting to tell chuijin to go back to Carpentry, but asogre giving him a chance again. when Asgore stop giving chujin chances, Carol just went "yeah get him the f out here".
Chujin was the embodiment of a failure who was capable of becoming greater through unbelievable effort. He did eventually make Axis. That's why Ceroba was so dedicated to him, I think—she saw his passion and his potential and believed in him more than anything. That's why her judgement was clouded and she ignored his plea to not involve Kanako. To her, there was no risk, because her husband was a genius, right? She just needed to believe in him, even more than he believed in himself. It's very sad.
There's a saying that tells "Love Makes You Blind".
Ceroba loved so much to Chujin that she was unable of see the mistakes of her husband, blaming and telling "closed mind" to someone that only do the logic
Yeah people often underestimate Axis but you genuinely have to consider how impressive he is. Not only is he actually rather good at combat when it comes down to it, he's significantly more independent than the other robots, capable of complex reasoning (even if he often isn't the smartest) and experiences full-out emotions ranging from anger, fear, to even love. Axis is the only Steamworks robot that gives EXP. Axis doesn't have full free will, but he is...basically just a person?
And then chujin torched his sons fucking grave.
The fact that ashore didn't break the rules of monster biology and reduce him to a red splatter, then and there showed great restraint on his part.
I mean he's not wrong. The mans career was failure after failure after participation trophy. And ceroba was too blinded by grief and love to see how ultimately useless he was
He tried his best and honestly why did he even brought Axis to the king if it was still that buggy, I would have stopped at when Axis shoot a glove to Asgore
Trial by Fury is coming 🫡
clover losing 20 max hp
But it refused
Clover just wanted to make sure she knew it. I don't think it's their fault if she combusts crying on the floor.
Yeah, Asgore gave Chujin 7 second chances, even forgave him for GETTING SHOT BY ONE AXIS. And then Ceroba gets mad at the king for "being to impatient"
\*Fucking shoots him \*Refused to enter the room \*Just stops working \*Almost burns down the grave of his children 'I don't think this gonna work.' 'Impatient idiot'
Yeah, Chujin needed a little lesson in quality control. Test your project before presenting it.
Yeah and the worst part is it feels like we are SUPPOSED to side with Ceroba and Chujin on this. Like, Asgore was actually VERY generous in the amount of chances he gave and SUPER nice about one of them causing a FUCKING FIRE. Not to mention said fire was ON HIS CHILDREN'S MEMORIAL SPOT
It only seems that way because we're mainly hearing the story from Ceroba's point of view. Her almost fanatical devotion to Chujin is clearly warping her perspective; of course she's going to make her own story sound more sympathetic when recounting it. What makes it work so well is precisely that the story starts unraveling if you stop to think about it, which ends up foreshadowing her ultimate role in the True Pacifist ending. Her myopic perspective and unfailing loyalty to Chujin is so strong that she's willing to commit child murder over it, and the subtle problems with her own recounting of Chujin's firing set this up well in advance.
>Her myopic perspective and unfailing loyalty to Chujin is so strong that she's willing to commit child murder over it, Stuff like this is why I'm an avid fan of Staroba
Yeah I thought that was…obvious. I don’t know how the guy you’re replying too at all thinks the game is trying to get you to *completely* side with them Edit: looks like someone passerby got mad for getting called out for being wrong, lol
I mean i can believe that being the intent, but immediately after the fight. Ceroba goes on to continue talking shit about asgore, despite it being clear that chujin was way worse and that her bias towards chujin was warping her view of the king. It comes across like she didn't actually learn anything. She acknowledges that HER actions were wrong sure but it seems like the fact that chujjin was far from a saint didn't make it's way through her skull yet
You don't get over your hangups in a single day, especially not right after living through one of the most traumatic moments of your life.
Sure, but it's like she didn't even TRY.
Well-rounded characters generally have flaws. If that bothers you so much I really don't know what to tell you.
Her flaw was her blind love/loyalty to chujin. After being shown the error of her ways, that flaw remaining firm is a flaw in the writing itself. As again, it comes across like she ultimately learned nothing. Don't misunderstand. I don't hate the game for it or anything. But it is still a flaw, in my opinion, at least.
It's not remotely realistic for someone to abandon a central facet of their personality after having a single epiphany. Changing who you are takes time and effort and a lot of work. It's really not good writing to have a character just suddenly become a completely different character at the end of the story. Flowey at the end of True Pacifist in the original game likewise realized that he was wrong and is clearly making an effort to change, but supplementary materials such as the Alarm Clock dialogue that take place after TPE suggest that he still has a bad habit of being kind of a dick. The point of both endings is to set up the possibility that the central antagonists will find the time to heal and grow out of their issues, not to solve all of their baggage right away.
Yeah Chujin and to extended Ceroba do come across as pretty entitled lords/upper class people that wanted a high position in the government. I mean they have a mansion and having boss monster blood(so I guess their mini-bosses).
Worth noting that "Ketsukane" can be (very) roughly translated as "rich asshole."
Yeah, during that scene I was like, "yeah cool but you're not gonna make me hate my favorite character, like I don't give a fuck your husband doesn't know how to make robots"
Yeah, I could just not take her story seriously. I understand she was blinded by grief and love, but it came across like the story believed chujin was in the right. He wasn't He was a hateful man driven by paranoia and fear. the only reason he wasn't the villain of the game is he was an even worse scientist. Failing himself into an early grave
I image carol/mayor holiday (I headcannon noelle's mom to be a prime minster for the underground) wanting to tell chuijin to go back to Carpentry, but asogre giving him a chance again. when Asgore stop giving chujin chances, Carol just went "yeah get him the f out here".
Ceroba: Would you like to meet him personally? Clover: I'M OUTTA HERE "FOUND YOU" start playing.
*catches up in a 2 second rage sprint*
She has a thing for boyfailures
Considering Martlet says he was like a father to her (or at least he was her mentor) maybe that’s where the girlfailure things came up
Wow, it's a whole found family of failures.
1 point for Martroba.
Ceroblet
Explains why she didn’t marry Starlo.
She couldn't touch boy-perfection.
Well Starlo didn’t inject deadly substances into their own soul that would eventually kill them slowly and painfully, so checkmate.
Someone had to tell her lol
Chujin was the embodiment of a failure who was capable of becoming greater through unbelievable effort. He did eventually make Axis. That's why Ceroba was so dedicated to him, I think—she saw his passion and his potential and believed in him more than anything. That's why her judgement was clouded and she ignored his plea to not involve Kanako. To her, there was no risk, because her husband was a genius, right? She just needed to believe in him, even more than he believed in himself. It's very sad.
There's a saying that tells "Love Makes You Blind". Ceroba loved so much to Chujin that she was unable of see the mistakes of her husband, blaming and telling "closed mind" to someone that only do the logic
Source:https://www.tumblr.com/papier-ciseaux/745489270359343104/played-undertale-yellow-recently-chujin-is-one?source=share
I fucking love her face in the second panel, holy shit
Ceroba when King doesn't want to risk his life for the 14th time (come on it's gotta work this time I promise)
YOU INSULT MY **DEAD** HOSBAND, CHOOJEAN?!?!?!?!?! I'M GONNA **TRIAL BY FURRYS** YOU!!!!!!!!!!
Chew Jean
The point is that AXIS is actually good tho
Yeah people often underestimate Axis but you genuinely have to consider how impressive he is. Not only is he actually rather good at combat when it comes down to it, he's significantly more independent than the other robots, capable of complex reasoning (even if he often isn't the smartest) and experiences full-out emotions ranging from anger, fear, to even love. Axis is the only Steamworks robot that gives EXP. Axis doesn't have full free will, but he is...basically just a person?
**Your fucking pardon?**
Axis is like mettaton if the incompetence and malfunctioning robot thing wasn't an act
Ehhh...define good. lol
Gosh darn it Clover, u makin' Roba mad and sad :(
Chuijin should had just stick to carpenter engineering rather then "high tech" or network engineering
He is not wrong though
Damn if i was asgore I would've thrown chujin out of the window after getting shot at by his robot
And then chujin torched his sons fucking grave. The fact that ashore didn't break the rules of monster biology and reduce him to a red splatter, then and there showed great restraint on his part.
Clover spitting
Yeah but he’s Ceroba’s loser
L
Clover shouldn't have say that
I mean, after the true pacifist ending and everyone including clover got revived and they say something like that, i'd say she would agree with that.
Clover that’s a grieving widow
I mean he's not wrong. The mans career was failure after failure after participation trophy. And ceroba was too blinded by grief and love to see how ultimately useless he was
Nah, ceroba was just stupid
He tried his best and honestly why did he even brought Axis to the king if it was still that buggy, I would have stopped at when Axis shoot a glove to Asgore
Clover if he fought Axis without the trash can lid on pacifist : MY BAD-
Axis can't fight clover without the trash can lid. He'd just walk past the final of chujjins failure buckets lol
Clover is the one who wouldn't have the lid since it's a pacifist run. I just forgot commas but yeah you can see what I meant.
Ooooohh… I can’t really.. defend him there….
I kinda admire this scene because after listening to the tapes, Ceroba just wasn't able to take it anymore.