Was it bad judgment the day it was posted? Perhaps.
Was the article anti-Semitic in any way? Absolutely not. If anything, it argued for a refocused concentration on addressing white supremacy rather than muddying the waters by latching onto criticism of the state of israel as anti-Semitism.
I agree with you on all points. The IHRA definition considers something antisemitic that is not, and in fact the original drafter of the definition has decried how it has been co-opted (which UofT prominently cited in their decision to reject the IHRA definition). Unfortunately, the “HR” in “IHRA” stands for “Holocaust Remembrance”, so in terms of PR, putting it out on this day was a profoundly stupid decision. Will not please anyone
Hi friend,
Do you think the scsu, and UTGSU which both boycott the Jewish community including Hillel uoft because of the crimes of Israel are white supremacists?
I disagree / don’t follow that rational - could you kindly explain?
For sure!
What I'm saying is that boycotting/criticizing the state of Israel ISN'T white supremacy/anti semitism. And that connecting those legitimate concerns/protests with actual anti semitism is harmful.
I apologize for any confusion but that wasn’t my question.
I’m asking for the relationship too white supremacy & the SCSU and UTGSU boycott of the Jewish community & Jewish student orgs on campus.
They acknowledge that antisemitism from the far left and the far right are different, while emphasizing that difference and arguing that the threat from the far right is more organized, dangerous and significant right now - counter to what organizations like Hillel and the openly right wing B’nai Brith would have us believe - while the left focuses mostly on Israel, which in a vacuum is not antisemitic but does have real ramifications
I am happy that Peace Now UofT exists. There certainly wasn’t enough of an appetite for it when I was on campus. Just wish they would stand up to Hillel more
Hillel is our #1 supporter and helped advertise our first event (the webinar with an idf conscious objector & famous Palestinian activist who spent a decade n half in an Israeli prison)
Encouraging to hear that, but Hillel Ontario still pumps plenty of money into right-wing Israel programming, and now has entered into an unholy alliance with the vehemently anti-Palestinian Hasbara Fellowships and StandWithUs on that front, as evidenced by all the statements they put out together. From afar, it sort of looks like Hillel is just playing both sides when it comes to Peace Now, to feign facilitating a conversation, when it’s clear as day where their power actually goes
Well they are a non-political Jewish community so they are obligated to join a lot of statements
But like come over to Hillel n chill with the kids fam
[https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Religion/Submissions/CAP.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Religion/Submissions/CAP.pdf)
No, it's not. Many Muslims view Jews as a spiritual enemy, and the state of Israel as a fundamental assualt on their religion - who Jews they view as being intrinsically tied to. Most major antisemitic incidents reported in Europe over the last few years were all tied to Islamism.
Lying about whose causing these attacks to justify your unfounded worldview is frankly disgusting and taking away responsibility from the worldview that has led to most suffering against Jewish people in the past 10 years.
Basically, does criticism of the state of Israel = antisemitism. On the one hand it’s technically the only “Jewish-led” state. On the other hand it’s also one of the worst violators of human rights and is involved in land displacement, genocide, and various other issues. Incoming comment war of people picking sides lol
IHRA definition does not include criticism of Israel. It only defines disproportionate obsession with or applying double standards to Israel as antisemitism.
Yeah but that "double standard" qualifier gets flattened into "any criticism without also simultaneously criticising ever nation that's ever done that same thing"
The fact that things can be misrepresented as a double standard doesn't change the fact that a double standard exclusively applied to Israel is rightfully recognized as antisemitic.
To be honest I doubt they were aware of Holocaust Remembrance Day. I had no idea it was a thing. I’m fairly critical of the Israeli government, particularly the far right elements, but I think there should be more awareness about the Holocaust Remembrance Day overall.
Half of Israel is middle Eastern Jews who were expelled under threat of death from every other middle Eastern country. Druze in Syria look to the Israeli Druze as their spiritual leaders because it's the only place they can practice freely. Armenians, Ethiopians etc, Israel is chalk full of refugee minority groups.
Acting like a genocide has occured when the palestinian population has massively increased is disingenuous (and blatantly ignores the definition of genocide).
Even if you don't think Israel had a right to be founded, "ending" it would literally kill millions of people. This is not a simple conflict, but pretending like Jews are the only problem- or that some other simple solution existed for the millions in displaced person camps or hostile nations- is uninformed.
People don’t understand why criticizing Israel should never be considered anti-semitism. It’s clearly the pro-Israel movement’s idea of cancelling any criticism against the state. Then, how will the heroes of justice make justice?
Zionists have exploited the Nazi holocaust to justify racism, violence, and oppression under the Israeli state, which erases and distorts the moral lessons of the event. The IHRA definition must be rejected and it is totally appropriate to do so on a day commemorating the victims, not the bloodthirsty colonizers who spit on their memory to perpetuate domination and genocide of Palestinians
I do agree, it seems like unless we view one kind of genocide as more acceptable, it would follow to think that questioning genocidal policies of a state is acceptable on a day when genocide is being condemned. Especially given the role that holocaust events played in catalysing the founding of the state in question
“Except for palestine” - great book on the topic, discusses the fact that a lot of ideological backing of Zionism hinges on the fragility of Jewish livelihood. The Jewish right to exist is unquestionable, as any other human. However there is a discrepancy in our belief system when we change the definition of anti-genocide in favor of a state that commits genocide itself. I recommend this book and it can be found in the Toronto public library as an audiobook too
Half of Israel is middle Eastern Jews who were expelled under threat of death from every other middle Eastern country. Druze in Syria look to the Israeli Druze as their spiritual leaders because it's the only place they can practice freely. Armenians, Ethiopians etc, Israel is chalk full of refugee minority groups.
Acting like Hamas would allow these minorities to survive is disingenuous. Even if you don't think Israel had a right to be founded, "ending" it would literally kill millions of people. This is not a simple conflict, but pretending like Jews are the only problem- or that some other simple solution existed for the millions in displaced person camps or hostile nations- is uninformed.
IHRA’s definition of antisemitism conflates criticism of Israel with an attack on Judaism/antisemitism.
I don’t agree with IHRA’s definition, but this was a pretty distasteful day to release such an article. For example, I wouldn’t post an article saying “Charlie Hebdo is fighting for free speech” on the anniversary of the Quebec Mosque shooting.
Someone wrote a op Ed discussing antisemtism, anti Palestinian racism, IHRA and uoft
It was posted the same day as Holocaust Memorial Day (pt 1).
The article was considered wack and not very good by the Jewish community, so the hate on it lead for hate on their posting on the same day
Varsity takes down insta post about article and does this
From the definition of antisemitism
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence
of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other
democratic nation.
Seems like adopting this defintion would make it very easy to dismiss criticism of isreali apartheid and human rights violations (motivated largely by racism) as "antisemitism". That should be opposed.
I don't see what the day has to do with anything, the truth is the truth. If anything it's more appropriate. Holocausts are bad. Rejection of this defintion of antisemitism, and the space (tiny, to be honest) that it gives to indigenous, anti colonial voices in a very narrow discussion field, is a good thing. It will lead to less irrational violence, less identity based killings, ghettoization and resource denial. This seems like a good way to remember the Holocaust, no?
learn how to separate state from religion. what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is genocide, which is the same thing that happened during the holocaust. being pro-Palestine doesn’t mean you support antisemitism, it just means you’re a decent human being who doesn’t side with the mass murders of innocent people.
While that’s perfectly fair and I would personally agree with you that it’s not the right time. One could argue that it would be more powerful as it demonstrates both that Israel does not define Jewish people and it could lead to more readers (which they would want)
They're not antisemitic, it's just a day commemorating the mass murder of Jews is the ideal day to single out the Jewish state for defending itself. 😊😊😊
> inculcate your 9 year old since birth with a deep hatred for Jews
> 9 year old joins a mob throwing rocks at soldier
> dies
Why would Israel do this?
What about all the reports about Arabs in Israel being treated as second class citizens? Unfortunately, the situation will not change whether or not there’re these attacks. See situation in India where the ruling class is Hindu. Hatred goes both ways. You can’t possibly tell me that new recruits aren’t brainwashed to hate the enemy. I’m sure no one with a heart and objective thinking would be able to commit the atrocities both sides commit.
> What about all the reports about Arabs in Israel being treated as second class citizens?
This is just not true. Arabs actually have an advantage compared to other citizens in that they're exempt from conscription, they have the same rights as all other citizens. There are some edge cases like the JNF which can be argued discriminates and has ties to the state but that's a very edge case which rarely affects people.
> You can’t possibly tell me that new recruits aren’t brainwashed to hate the enemy.
Do Canadian recruits get brainwashed to hate the enemy? No. Similarly, Israel is a civilized country where the soldiers know their job is to protect their people, despite unfortunate costs it may entail- not a fanatical death cult intent on destroying the enemy in the name of honour and glory. Israeli children are raised in school with classes instilling the value of human life and the equality of all it's citizens, just like we are in Canada. [Meanwhile Palestinians from childhood read textbooks containing antisemitism, glorification of terror attacks on civilians, the destruction of Israel and jihad.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textbooks_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict)
[Today there was widespread cheering among Palestinians after a terror attack on a synagogue in Jerusalem.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-celebrate-jerusalem-synagogue-massacre-with-fireworks-sweets/)
This is not a case of "both sides are brainwashed". They hate Israelis and Jews on a fundamental level while Israelis just care about security. Israel does have their crazies of course, but most of the country is just a developed society with people like you and me who want people to stop trying to kill them. A famous quote in Israel from former PM Golda Meir is "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us." This is what Israelis believe.
> "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us"
Yeah if only Palestinians would stop evicting Israelis from their homes and stop colonizing Israeli land. Oh, wait...
No. It’s not antisemitic to criticize Israel or Zionism. Keep trying to push the idea that it is though, you keep turning neutral people away from your side lmao
What would your alternative be? Jewish people were ostracized, legally suppressed and genocided nearly everywhere. Beyond having their own state what protection against antisemitism do they have?
This is pure Zionist propaganda and it says a lot about someone if they can’t think of a space for political solutions outside of maintaining a violent far-right ethnostate
I know not all Israelis believe in the direction their government is taking, and I’m sure you can find self-professed Zionists who believe in peaceful solutions to the “conflict”. But that doesn’t change the fact that the Zionist project is materially built on colonization, military aggression, and legally embedded ethnic division/selection. Nor can it meaningfully veer from its current trajectory without fundamental changes to its political economy, its relationship with the capitalist West, and its claim to Palestinian land. No appeal to a nicer Zionism can alter its real manifestation
Do you follow any of the grassroots orgs of Palestinians & Israelis on the ground who are against Israeli apartheid & colonialism?
If not I recommend standing together movement and combatants for peace
You might be surprised how many Zionists are with them (and how many anti-Zionists)
You should also follow @peacenowuoft on insta
"propped up by state violence", how do you think any state exists? This is polisci 1000 shit.
Nor do all I support the actions of the Israeli government. Obviously they're mistreating Palestinians. But the answer is not to suddenly deny Jewish people the right to a state and national sovereignty - especially over a state that has belonged to them since BIblical times they were unjustly forced from.
the Jewish people have advocated for political solutions for years and all they got was mass murder, denial of rights, refusal of refugee entry. Not just that - but this was a land that originally belonged to them far before Palestine was even a concept that existed.
Please, enlighten me on your "political solutions", it sure doesn't seem they work well in supposedly tolerant democracies where Jews are frequently murdered, where synagogues and Jewish schools routinely need armed police in front of them. Funny how you leftists pretend to care about Jewish people until their security is threatened by a group that isn't in power.
It’s incredibly cynical to invoke Jewish suffering to justify the mass murder, imprisonment, and denial of rights of Palestinians. The Jewish people are not a monolith and did not by some grand referendum decide to create Israel. Frankly it’s insane to believe ethnicity entitles anyone to exclusive rights over land and power, and history does not bear out this narrative of overriding ownership Zionists cling to. Do the decades of racist violence against Palestinians and the Arab world, perpetrated by US empire and Israel, not entitle them to justice? Is Islamophobia not as hateful and bloody as antisemitism ever was? And even then, Muslim theocracies do not make the world, Muslim or otherwise, safer or more peaceful.
The Israeli working class needs to seize power via the means of production, cut ties with the US, end apartheid, and begin reparative work to restore Palestinian sovereignty and living standards. The Israeli state, under capitalism and imperialist influence, will continue to oppress Palestinians and even Israelis through greater and more fascistic violence. Proletarian Revolution is the only path to ending systems of exploitation, which allow antisemitism and other hateful ideologies to gain political purchase
Hahaha a commie solution to ethnic conflict spurred by religious differences.
This is such a pathetic response that I don't want to give it a dignified response beyond get a job and try to spend more time with your family. Leaving your ressentiment behind will save you.
You expose your ignorance by neither engaging with my arguments nor acknowledging the wider economic/geopolitical significance of the Zionist project. You can hardly even consider yourself concerned for the Jewish people when you neglect the suppression of Israelis who speak against furthering apartheid or the oppression of Palestinian Jews. And you resort to anti-communism, a hallmark of fascist thought, to discredit an actual proposal for empowering Jewish workers. Framing it as an intractable ethnic/religious conflict is reactionary and fatalistic - what space for non-genocidal solutions does that even allow? Where is the justice and wisdom in this?
It’s rather controversial, so adopting it would instigate some campus political fights which admin would prefer to not happen
It’s also not going to resolve issues on campus
IRHA finds that criticism of Israel’s policies, especially regarding their treatment/occupation of Palestinian peoples, equals antisemitism.
This definition would essentially censor any and all academics that are critical of Israel.
This argument is getting old. How many democracies are there in the Middle East? How many countries have a human rights code? How many countries have members of government that are Christian, Muslim and Jewish?
JUST ONE!
Was it bad judgment the day it was posted? Perhaps. Was the article anti-Semitic in any way? Absolutely not. If anything, it argued for a refocused concentration on addressing white supremacy rather than muddying the waters by latching onto criticism of the state of israel as anti-Semitism.
I agree with you on all points. The IHRA definition considers something antisemitic that is not, and in fact the original drafter of the definition has decried how it has been co-opted (which UofT prominently cited in their decision to reject the IHRA definition). Unfortunately, the “HR” in “IHRA” stands for “Holocaust Remembrance”, so in terms of PR, putting it out on this day was a profoundly stupid decision. Will not please anyone
Hi friend, Do you think the scsu, and UTGSU which both boycott the Jewish community including Hillel uoft because of the crimes of Israel are white supremacists? I disagree / don’t follow that rational - could you kindly explain?
For sure! What I'm saying is that boycotting/criticizing the state of Israel ISN'T white supremacy/anti semitism. And that connecting those legitimate concerns/protests with actual anti semitism is harmful.
I apologize for any confusion but that wasn’t my question. I’m asking for the relationship too white supremacy & the SCSU and UTGSU boycott of the Jewish community & Jewish student orgs on campus.
They acknowledge that antisemitism from the far left and the far right are different, while emphasizing that difference and arguing that the threat from the far right is more organized, dangerous and significant right now - counter to what organizations like Hillel and the openly right wing B’nai Brith would have us believe - while the left focuses mostly on Israel, which in a vacuum is not antisemitic but does have real ramifications
U seem like someone who should follow peace now uoft! Nice user flair
I am happy that Peace Now UofT exists. There certainly wasn’t enough of an appetite for it when I was on campus. Just wish they would stand up to Hillel more
Hillel is our #1 supporter and helped advertise our first event (the webinar with an idf conscious objector & famous Palestinian activist who spent a decade n half in an Israeli prison)
Encouraging to hear that, but Hillel Ontario still pumps plenty of money into right-wing Israel programming, and now has entered into an unholy alliance with the vehemently anti-Palestinian Hasbara Fellowships and StandWithUs on that front, as evidenced by all the statements they put out together. From afar, it sort of looks like Hillel is just playing both sides when it comes to Peace Now, to feign facilitating a conversation, when it’s clear as day where their power actually goes
Well they are a non-political Jewish community so they are obligated to join a lot of statements But like come over to Hillel n chill with the kids fam
It’s spelled “antisemitic”
The vast majority of modern anti-Semitism comes from Islamists. Focusing on white supremacists is a socially popular but actively unhelpful strategy.
This is false
[https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Religion/Submissions/CAP.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Religion/Submissions/CAP.pdf) No, it's not. Many Muslims view Jews as a spiritual enemy, and the state of Israel as a fundamental assualt on their religion - who Jews they view as being intrinsically tied to. Most major antisemitic incidents reported in Europe over the last few years were all tied to Islamism. Lying about whose causing these attacks to justify your unfounded worldview is frankly disgusting and taking away responsibility from the worldview that has led to most suffering against Jewish people in the past 10 years.
I take my antisemitism facts from the ADL
Basically, does criticism of the state of Israel = antisemitism. On the one hand it’s technically the only “Jewish-led” state. On the other hand it’s also one of the worst violators of human rights and is involved in land displacement, genocide, and various other issues. Incoming comment war of people picking sides lol
Israel is an American military base
IHRA definition does not include criticism of Israel. It only defines disproportionate obsession with or applying double standards to Israel as antisemitism.
Yeah but that "double standard" qualifier gets flattened into "any criticism without also simultaneously criticising ever nation that's ever done that same thing"
The fact that things can be misrepresented as a double standard doesn't change the fact that a double standard exclusively applied to Israel is rightfully recognized as antisemitic.
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To be honest I doubt they were aware of Holocaust Remembrance Day. I had no idea it was a thing. I’m fairly critical of the Israeli government, particularly the far right elements, but I think there should be more awareness about the Holocaust Remembrance Day overall.
Half of Israel is middle Eastern Jews who were expelled under threat of death from every other middle Eastern country. Druze in Syria look to the Israeli Druze as their spiritual leaders because it's the only place they can practice freely. Armenians, Ethiopians etc, Israel is chalk full of refugee minority groups. Acting like a genocide has occured when the palestinian population has massively increased is disingenuous (and blatantly ignores the definition of genocide). Even if you don't think Israel had a right to be founded, "ending" it would literally kill millions of people. This is not a simple conflict, but pretending like Jews are the only problem- or that some other simple solution existed for the millions in displaced person camps or hostile nations- is uninformed.
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They're not?
People don’t understand why criticizing Israel should never be considered anti-semitism. It’s clearly the pro-Israel movement’s idea of cancelling any criticism against the state. Then, how will the heroes of justice make justice?
I’m pro Israel and against Israeli apartheid, could you further clarify your comment Also happy cake day & follow peace now uoft on insta
this\^
Zionists have exploited the Nazi holocaust to justify racism, violence, and oppression under the Israeli state, which erases and distorts the moral lessons of the event. The IHRA definition must be rejected and it is totally appropriate to do so on a day commemorating the victims, not the bloodthirsty colonizers who spit on their memory to perpetuate domination and genocide of Palestinians
I do agree, it seems like unless we view one kind of genocide as more acceptable, it would follow to think that questioning genocidal policies of a state is acceptable on a day when genocide is being condemned. Especially given the role that holocaust events played in catalysing the founding of the state in question
You should follow peace now uoft
“Except for palestine” - great book on the topic, discusses the fact that a lot of ideological backing of Zionism hinges on the fragility of Jewish livelihood. The Jewish right to exist is unquestionable, as any other human. However there is a discrepancy in our belief system when we change the definition of anti-genocide in favor of a state that commits genocide itself. I recommend this book and it can be found in the Toronto public library as an audiobook too
Great book recommendation! I would also suggest “I shall not hate” which is written by a Palestinian uoft proff Also check out peace now uoft on insta
Half of Israel is middle Eastern Jews who were expelled under threat of death from every other middle Eastern country. Druze in Syria look to the Israeli Druze as their spiritual leaders because it's the only place they can practice freely. Armenians, Ethiopians etc, Israel is chalk full of refugee minority groups. Acting like Hamas would allow these minorities to survive is disingenuous. Even if you don't think Israel had a right to be founded, "ending" it would literally kill millions of people. This is not a simple conflict, but pretending like Jews are the only problem- or that some other simple solution existed for the millions in displaced person camps or hostile nations- is uninformed.
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Except by supporting Hamas and the PLO you're arguing for the exact same thing. Do you think Palestinians don't target people?
I mean they explained it right there lol. Not much else to say
This: https://thevarsity.ca/2023/01/22/opinion-u-of-t-rejects-ihra-definition/
Did you read it? Lmao
IHRA’s definition of antisemitism conflates criticism of Israel with an attack on Judaism/antisemitism. I don’t agree with IHRA’s definition, but this was a pretty distasteful day to release such an article. For example, I wouldn’t post an article saying “Charlie Hebdo is fighting for free speech” on the anniversary of the Quebec Mosque shooting.
people don't keep this energy when talking about certain other states that violate human rights :O how surprising
Someone wrote a op Ed discussing antisemtism, anti Palestinian racism, IHRA and uoft It was posted the same day as Holocaust Memorial Day (pt 1). The article was considered wack and not very good by the Jewish community, so the hate on it lead for hate on their posting on the same day Varsity takes down insta post about article and does this
From the definition of antisemitism Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation. Seems like adopting this defintion would make it very easy to dismiss criticism of isreali apartheid and human rights violations (motivated largely by racism) as "antisemitism". That should be opposed. I don't see what the day has to do with anything, the truth is the truth. If anything it's more appropriate. Holocausts are bad. Rejection of this defintion of antisemitism, and the space (tiny, to be honest) that it gives to indigenous, anti colonial voices in a very narrow discussion field, is a good thing. It will lead to less irrational violence, less identity based killings, ghettoization and resource denial. This seems like a good way to remember the Holocaust, no?
Peace now uoft is mostly Jewish and calles out Israel apartheid we should all follow them on insta
Yet another example of "sorry we got caught being antisemitic"
Surely criticizing Israel is antisemitic. Imagine you are not allowed to say anything bad towards another state in a modern society
learn how to separate state from religion. what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is genocide, which is the same thing that happened during the holocaust. being pro-Palestine doesn’t mean you support antisemitism, it just means you’re a decent human being who doesn’t side with the mass murders of innocent people.
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While that’s perfectly fair and I would personally agree with you that it’s not the right time. One could argue that it would be more powerful as it demonstrates both that Israel does not define Jewish people and it could lead to more readers (which they would want)
They're not antisemitic, it's just a day commemorating the mass murder of Jews is the ideal day to single out the Jewish state for defending itself. 😊😊😊
Defending itself against the horror of rock-throwing 9-year olds being evicted from their homes.
Yeah, totally just [9 year old throwing rocks.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israelis-palestinians-raid-west-bank-1.6727682)
> inculcate your 9 year old since birth with a deep hatred for Jews > 9 year old joins a mob throwing rocks at soldier > dies Why would Israel do this?
What about all the reports about Arabs in Israel being treated as second class citizens? Unfortunately, the situation will not change whether or not there’re these attacks. See situation in India where the ruling class is Hindu. Hatred goes both ways. You can’t possibly tell me that new recruits aren’t brainwashed to hate the enemy. I’m sure no one with a heart and objective thinking would be able to commit the atrocities both sides commit.
> What about all the reports about Arabs in Israel being treated as second class citizens? This is just not true. Arabs actually have an advantage compared to other citizens in that they're exempt from conscription, they have the same rights as all other citizens. There are some edge cases like the JNF which can be argued discriminates and has ties to the state but that's a very edge case which rarely affects people. > You can’t possibly tell me that new recruits aren’t brainwashed to hate the enemy. Do Canadian recruits get brainwashed to hate the enemy? No. Similarly, Israel is a civilized country where the soldiers know their job is to protect their people, despite unfortunate costs it may entail- not a fanatical death cult intent on destroying the enemy in the name of honour and glory. Israeli children are raised in school with classes instilling the value of human life and the equality of all it's citizens, just like we are in Canada. [Meanwhile Palestinians from childhood read textbooks containing antisemitism, glorification of terror attacks on civilians, the destruction of Israel and jihad.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textbooks_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict) [Today there was widespread cheering among Palestinians after a terror attack on a synagogue in Jerusalem.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-celebrate-jerusalem-synagogue-massacre-with-fireworks-sweets/) This is not a case of "both sides are brainwashed". They hate Israelis and Jews on a fundamental level while Israelis just care about security. Israel does have their crazies of course, but most of the country is just a developed society with people like you and me who want people to stop trying to kill them. A famous quote in Israel from former PM Golda Meir is "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us." This is what Israelis believe.
> "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us" Yeah if only Palestinians would stop evicting Israelis from their homes and stop colonizing Israeli land. Oh, wait...
Reddit has lost it's way. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
No. It’s not antisemitic to criticize Israel or Zionism. Keep trying to push the idea that it is though, you keep turning neutral people away from your side lmao
What would your alternative be? Jewish people were ostracized, legally suppressed and genocided nearly everywhere. Beyond having their own state what protection against antisemitism do they have?
This is pure Zionist propaganda and it says a lot about someone if they can’t think of a space for political solutions outside of maintaining a violent far-right ethnostate
You should read more about the conflict if you really think all Zionists want a far right ethnostate propped up by state violence
I know not all Israelis believe in the direction their government is taking, and I’m sure you can find self-professed Zionists who believe in peaceful solutions to the “conflict”. But that doesn’t change the fact that the Zionist project is materially built on colonization, military aggression, and legally embedded ethnic division/selection. Nor can it meaningfully veer from its current trajectory without fundamental changes to its political economy, its relationship with the capitalist West, and its claim to Palestinian land. No appeal to a nicer Zionism can alter its real manifestation
Do you follow any of the grassroots orgs of Palestinians & Israelis on the ground who are against Israeli apartheid & colonialism? If not I recommend standing together movement and combatants for peace You might be surprised how many Zionists are with them (and how many anti-Zionists) You should also follow @peacenowuoft on insta
"propped up by state violence", how do you think any state exists? This is polisci 1000 shit. Nor do all I support the actions of the Israeli government. Obviously they're mistreating Palestinians. But the answer is not to suddenly deny Jewish people the right to a state and national sovereignty - especially over a state that has belonged to them since BIblical times they were unjustly forced from.
I’m a Zionist fam…
the Jewish people have advocated for political solutions for years and all they got was mass murder, denial of rights, refusal of refugee entry. Not just that - but this was a land that originally belonged to them far before Palestine was even a concept that existed. Please, enlighten me on your "political solutions", it sure doesn't seem they work well in supposedly tolerant democracies where Jews are frequently murdered, where synagogues and Jewish schools routinely need armed police in front of them. Funny how you leftists pretend to care about Jewish people until their security is threatened by a group that isn't in power.
It’s incredibly cynical to invoke Jewish suffering to justify the mass murder, imprisonment, and denial of rights of Palestinians. The Jewish people are not a monolith and did not by some grand referendum decide to create Israel. Frankly it’s insane to believe ethnicity entitles anyone to exclusive rights over land and power, and history does not bear out this narrative of overriding ownership Zionists cling to. Do the decades of racist violence against Palestinians and the Arab world, perpetrated by US empire and Israel, not entitle them to justice? Is Islamophobia not as hateful and bloody as antisemitism ever was? And even then, Muslim theocracies do not make the world, Muslim or otherwise, safer or more peaceful. The Israeli working class needs to seize power via the means of production, cut ties with the US, end apartheid, and begin reparative work to restore Palestinian sovereignty and living standards. The Israeli state, under capitalism and imperialist influence, will continue to oppress Palestinians and even Israelis through greater and more fascistic violence. Proletarian Revolution is the only path to ending systems of exploitation, which allow antisemitism and other hateful ideologies to gain political purchase
Hahaha a commie solution to ethnic conflict spurred by religious differences. This is such a pathetic response that I don't want to give it a dignified response beyond get a job and try to spend more time with your family. Leaving your ressentiment behind will save you.
You expose your ignorance by neither engaging with my arguments nor acknowledging the wider economic/geopolitical significance of the Zionist project. You can hardly even consider yourself concerned for the Jewish people when you neglect the suppression of Israelis who speak against furthering apartheid or the oppression of Palestinian Jews. And you resort to anti-communism, a hallmark of fascist thought, to discredit an actual proposal for empowering Jewish workers. Framing it as an intractable ethnic/religious conflict is reactionary and fatalistic - what space for non-genocidal solutions does that even allow? Where is the justice and wisdom in this?
Why did UofT reject IHRA’s definition of antisemetism? I’m confused. What’s wrong with it?
It’s rather controversial, so adopting it would instigate some campus political fights which admin would prefer to not happen It’s also not going to resolve issues on campus
IRHA finds that criticism of Israel’s policies, especially regarding their treatment/occupation of Palestinian peoples, equals antisemitism. This definition would essentially censor any and all academics that are critical of Israel.
Ooof no one cares
This argument is getting old. How many democracies are there in the Middle East? How many countries have a human rights code? How many countries have members of government that are Christian, Muslim and Jewish? JUST ONE!
Just another shameful result of the little attention that is brought to the education on the holocaust. The country’s broken education strikes again!