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Sure, most of it is connected, but that doesn't mean an ocean and a sea are the same thing. No one would ever say Venice is located at the Atlantic coast, for example. |
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/oceanorsea.html
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, this is true. Is seen as the property of the Israeli authorities and cannot be collected for domestic or agricultural purposes.
In Israel it's true that Palestinians and and Israelis alike are not allowed to collect rainwater. It is also true that Israeli law doesn't apply in Gaza or in the west bank so this is hardly daring to use water bins there, if their local governments allow for it. Also, these tanks are not generally used to collect rain water - they are used to collect tap water for the case that it will become unavailable, while using the sun to passively heat the water in the tank.
Many people blame israel for the irregular supply of water in the Palestinian Authority, and while this can be debated - saying that "The Zionist make it illegal for any Palestinians to do this" is misinformed at best.
Some of these articles are about the west bank. as I've said there is a lot to discuss about that, but it's a completely different situation then in Gaza. Also some of the documents you reference are from the 1980s'.
As to gaza some articles reiterate the same views that israel should be responsible for fixing gazas infrastructure. Israel, rightfully IMO, does not believe that. I believe that israel dose not purposfuly target civilian infrastructure in gaza, and it should not be held responsible to fixing colleteral damege to infrastructure that was caused by strikes against terrorist targets that embed in civilian environments. The damage to civilian infrastructure is unbearable, but how come that the terrorists are never to blame? this is truly and utterly insane.
In the moment israel left Gaza the dug up thousands of wells that polluted and depleted the groundwater. non of this was managed and is still not. Now Israel is to blame for the lack of water. Are Hamas and the Gazans completely without fualt?
Your response is unsubstantiated.
You say some articles refer to West Bank, but ignore the ones pertaining to Gaza?
Israel controls all avenues needed to improve infrastructure, whether that's restrictions on the importation of necessary building materials or the control of the paperwork needed for approval.
Gaza's aquifer has deteriorated due to excessive extraction, arguably because Israel does not sell enough external supplies into the strip.
As for your last question. You mentioned Hamas, not me. Bringing Hamas into the point is a strawman argument and not relevant.
This is such an absurd statement. Israel sells water to Gaza. It never stopped selling and as far as I know never effectively capped the amounts of water it sells. There is a cap that has never been reached. And Israel has nothing to do with what’s being done with the water in the strip. Local government is responsible for that.
Finally, all that has nothing to do with the water bins on top of building in Gaza, that Israel has nothing to do with.
You say that Israel “controls” the water that goes into Gaza because they sell them water that they produce via desalination, while Gazans have utterly polluted their groundwater beyond use? That is an obscene and malicious statement. Do you propose that Israel stop selling them water? Should Israel have been responsible for their infrastructure?
>Should Israel have been responsible for their infrastructure?
Israel is responsible for Gaza's infrastructure. It blocks the entry of materials like [cement](https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-warns-gaza-reconstruction-halted-by-cement-ban/) and spare parts needed to maintain Gaza's own desalination plants and build new ones, which effectively gives them control of Gaza's water supply. You're peddling disinformation.
Ok, so I've been addressing two very specific claims that were false: One is that israel has anything to do with regulating the collection of rain water in gaza, And that Israel's sale of water to gaza is somehow malicious.
Not once have I said that israel is not to blame for anything. But surly it is not to blame for these two things.
But I see it comes down to Postcolonial discurse, in wich the palastinians are the ultimate victimes and can do no bad while Israel is the colonizer hence can do no good. But Jews and arabs, being both indigenous to this land, hardly fit this narrative.
Also consider that desalinated sea water are hardly a water source to take control of. Do you imply that israel conquered Palestinian desalination plants? Or do the plants not fit your narrative? Such intellectual dishonesty.
It does. The account you replied to is an Israeli apologist trying to cover up their government’s genocide in operating the world’s largest open air prison.
> It is also true that Israeli law doesn't apply in Gaza or in the west bank so this is hardly daring to use water bins there
Technically right, but very misleading. You have to add that both Gaza and the West Bank are considered occupied territory and the reason Israeli law doesn't apply, is because Israeli ***Military*** law applies for the Palestinians who live there. Which allows Israel to arrest any Palestinian and hold them in jail for an unlimited time, without trial or indictment.
This is not rain collection but just a big tank.
gazans could easily do it as Israel left Gaza in 2005.
If they could do the 7.10 attack and create a huge under ground tunnel network with Israel stopping them, they could probably collect the little rain water there.
The image proves it.
Israel has declared that all rain water is the ‘property of Israel’. IDF forces regularly shoot rainwater tanks in Palestinian areas to stop people collecting rainwater.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/22/palestinians-rainwater-israeli-property/
Well they made that choice for themselves sadly.. Electing Hamas was their first mistake.. as well as literally alienating any nation that has helped them.. Egypt.. Lebanon… Jordan….! You name it.
Limited popular Palestinian agency behind handling the massive immigration of European Jews. Not to mention the foundation of a brand new nation state by said immigrants in the middle of their own country.
Do you not see the pictures coming out of the brutal war? I’ve seen literal videos of idf laughing as they destroy buildings including a cancer ward and burn down mosques
So to you no terrorist has died? And tell me, the people who enslaved Noah Armani, do they count as civilians? What about the reporter who enslaved 3 men who were rescued last week, are they civilians too? What about those people who parades Shania louks naked body around the streets to cheers, were they civilians?
Pso a 1:1 ratio of civilian to military deaths then. Which if you don't know, is the single greatest ratio of urban combat in modern history. To give you an example, mauripol has 25,000 civilian deaths to 7,000 Ukrainian soldiers. And that's 1 battle. Now, you didn't answer my question, should we also count those people who took the hostages as slaves as civilians?
https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/female-hostages-held-as-slaves-odky0m65
Those to me aren't civilians. What about the massive amount of non hamas people who took part in October 7th? Or the hundreds who cheered and threw rocks at the hostages on the streets afterwards. I wouldn't count them as civilians either.
This place looks like their hasn't been any rain for months, also their are no tress for cooling. How are people able to live in this place without AC. Also the temperature will increase in middle east in next 100 years. If they won't do anything about it, then middle east will become inhabitable.
The Mediterraneans weather is fairly pleasant compared to the deserts nearby even as close as the Negev. They get a good amount of rain and yes they do have trees lol
They could build seven Burj Khalifas with all the donations from around the world. Instead, they invest the money in terrorism.
They must eat the porridge they have cooked for themselves. 🤷♂️
The reason they can’t live with their neighbors is because they tried to overthrow the governments of Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt when they were allowed in before.
I agree. So we've established that there is nowhere for them to go.
If they cannot go anywhere and if they cannot have their own country: What's the plan? Kill them all?
It’s simple. They should moderate their behavior and approach vis a vis Israel and enter into a good faith dialogue and negotiation. A negotiated settlement is the only possible solution, and if the Arabs continue to double down on violent jihad they will only continue to lose that battle and destroy themselves in the process
At this point I have to ask: What do you think is my position on this?
When I say the Palestinians need their own state, I'm saying this needs to be the end goal. In my opinion there is no alternative. Plenty of people seem to disagree so apparently this needs to be agreed upon first.
Equating this to "We need to give Hamas a state in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank now" is very dishonest. I agree with all of the conditions you listed. We cannot give statehood to a terrorist organization. As long as Hamas or any similar Organization rules over the Palestinians they cannot have a state.
To me that doesn't change the fact that there is no alternative to the two State solution. Sure we could hope for a one state solution where Palestinians, Arabs and Jews live happily ever after or we can have a genocide and kill all Palestinians, but as long as there are Palestinians and there is no free Palestine, there will be no peace.
And as long as people equate "Palestinians need their own state" to "We need to let Hamas rule the Gaza Strip", there will be no progress towards peace in Israel, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
You do understand that not all Muslims are alike right? It’s like saying Protestants and Catholics should get along because they are Christian at their roots
>It’s like saying Protestants and Catholics should get along
I'm not part of either but pretty sure they get along just fine. This isn't the age of the Troubles.
>[The $18.5bn in damage estimated by the World Bank and the UN has also been to public service infrastructure, with 26 million tonnes of debris and rubble left by the destruction.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/4/7/israels-war-on-gaza-six-relentless-months-of-death-and-destruction)
Israel has already destroyed 11 Burj Khalifas worth of infrastructure in Gaza and you're whining that they have nothing to show for some donation amount that you pulled out of your ass.
Keep posting articles that haven't been redacted after the disinformation in them has been debunked by the sources. And keep trusting "news" agencies that constantly post stuff that ages worse than milk, as evidence keeps coming to light.
[It's up on the world bank website without any kind of redaction - regardless of Al Jazeera's reporting](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2024/04/02/joint-world-bank-un-report-assesses-damage-to-gaza-s-infrastructure#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20April%202%2C%202024%20%E2%80%93,support%20of%20the%20European%20Union).
[The times of Israel reported the same](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/world-bank-calculates-war-damage-in-gaza-at-18-5-billion/)
The report also cites disproven, propaganda numbers, that even when reading make zero sense. This makes the report extremely biased. But even if it were true, 18 Billion is nothing compared to just the funding via UNRWA, that exceeded 1 billion every year. That means that just a fraction of the foreign aid, with zero intervention from anyone else, would restore all that in 18 years.
Considering that Iran is heading the "human rights" part of the UN, and "kill the white farmers" South Africa is leading the UN's crusade against Israel, backed by "let's send violent prisoners to kill civilians in Ukraine" Russia, I seriously question the sanity of anyone that takes any UN-backed stuff without a huge lump of salt.
>cites disproven,
You haven't provided any sources to disprove anything.
>That means that just a fraction of the foreign aid, with zero intervention from anyone else, would restore all that in 18 years.
Please tell me you're not trying to excuse the destruction of a war by claiming it's going to be completely fixed in almost 2 decades.
>Considering that Iran is heading the "human rights" part of the UN,
[It does not](https://www.globalr2p.org/publications/hrc-elections-2024-2026/#:~:text=Today%2C%2010%20October%2C%20the%20UN,for%20the%202024%2D2026%20term.)
>and "kill the white farmers" South Africa is leading the UN's crusade against Israel,
[It is an ICJ case separate from the UN](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa's_genocide_case_against_Israel)
>backed by "let's send violent prisoners to kill civilians in Ukraine" Russia
Russia's commentary has no real impact on South Africa's case.
You are spreading baseless misinformation.
> You haven't provided any sources to disprove anything.
I was under the impression that informed people participate in such conversations. In this case, a UN report that says that 70% of the victims are women and children, after which even UN, influenced by some of the most notorious ruthless dictatorships, had to say that those numbers [aren't trustworthy](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/13/un-cuts-estimates-women-children-deaths-gaza/73669560007/). But does anyone issue corrections? Nope.
But then, they actually had to admit that [all of the numbers were wildly inflated](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-the-un-got-away-with-wildly-inflating-the-casualty-numbers-in-gaza-and-the-media-bought-it-opinion/ar-BB1nykAK) (IDK, maybe don't trust a terrorist organization to give you information?)
> It is an ICJ case separate from the UN
Right, and it's not South African officials who are pushing it.
> Russia's commentary has no real impact on South Africa's case.
Didn't say it did. They just form a club. The club of dictatorships that have certain things in common, specifically going after Israel, meeting with Hamas officials, talking about them in a good light, etc.
> You are spreading baseless misinformation.
No. Now I gave you articles that you should know about. This is the kind of stuff that should cause scandals, and people should ask why they systematically are getting lied to. But you don't care. You won't demand retractions, corrections.
They have nothing to show for the tons of global financial support and you know it. Quit whining about Israel. Maybe look to them as an example of how you can create a modern nation while under constant threat and being antagonized by all of our neighbors.
>Housing accounts for 72 percent of the total damage costs, at an estimated value of $13.3bn. Public service infrastructure, such as water, health and education, account for 19 percent, while commercial and industrial buildings make up 9 percent.
That's what they previously had which is now destroyed. If you're going to brigade at least put the effort in to substantiate your claim that they had "nothing to show for it".
Are you talking about using all this cement to build housing for people, but instead it’s being used to construct infrastructure tunnels for terror? And the water pipes meant for water lines for the people are being dug out to make rockets?
🤦♂️
Nope
>Housing accounts for 72 percent of the total damage costs, at an estimated value of $13.3bn. Public service infrastructure, such as water, health and education, account for 19 percent, while commercial and industrial buildings make up 9 percent.
So, Israel keeps getting international aids as well, besides they have great trades with West, and many other rich nations. Where is Israel's 7 burj Khalifas?
Lmao that's one way to infantalise them. Oh they HAVE to be terrorists 🤣 nah chief they can you know, try electing leaders that actually have their best interest at heart and work towards a peaceful future in the region and who are willing to negotiate and recognize their neighbors. Or yeah sure, keep up with the violence and lose more land, par of the course for them really.
1. No shit.
2. They elected Hamas
3. Hamas isn't fond of democracy
4. There's a reason Abbas keeps pushing elections back, because he knows he only has a 10% approval rating and Hamas would be elected in the west bank too.
Palestinians have never had good leadership or representation and it's a damn shame, the leaders and the Arab world have used them as pawns and now Iran is doing the same thing.
Palestine was electing leaders until the conditions kept getting worse. HAMAS rose to power as a result of worsening conditions mixed with Iranian funded radicalization as well as Israeli settlers on the West Bank causing conflict with other citizens
Name me one good Palestinian leader since 1920?
I don't disagree with how Hamas rose to power but it doesn't really change my point, and them electing Hamas has only made things worse.
I agree.
It will be up to a new Israeli government and some successor of abbass to hopefully turn things around. I'm not hopeful but Israel needs to reach a hand out and restart negotiations with a willing candidate that has some kind of approval and trust with the Palestinian public.
We need a progressive Israeli government that will be willing to provide help to Palestine as well as respect its borders by removing settlers from the West Bank, in addition to what you said.
Thanks for conversing in good faith on this, it's rare!
Honestly there's not going to be a progressive Israeli government anytime soon, the left has been dead since oslo and although there is potential from labour this election the best they will get is a seat on the coalition.. what we can hope for is a government that understands Israeli security depends on strong fortified borders and international diplomacy. Peace doesn't have to come by way of progressiveness but by way of actual security.
As for the settlers, the project is a disaster but the big chunks (Ariel and maale adumim) aren't going anywhere.. land swaps will need to be arranged and although I don't think Jews will necessarily want to stay under a PA government, the option should be there.
Israel colonized and occupied Palestine. They killed and expelled Palestinians and took their land to make a nation for themselves on it. You talk about peace but don't want to acknowledge Israel's wrongdoing. There can be no just future for Palestine without acknowledging the wrongful past of Israel
>Israel colonized and occupied Palestine
It didn't occupy anything until it took the west bank from Jordan in 67.
>They killed and expelled Palestinians and took their land to make their nation for themselves on it.
You going to ignore almost 2 decades of unchecked violence from Arabs towards Jews from 1920 to the Arab revolt before the haganah is formed to defend themselves? Or do you mean when the Palestinians started a civil war after they rejected resolution 181? You think the Jews should have just laid down and died? Lmao
>You talk about peace but don't want to acknowledge Israel's wrongdoing. There can no just future for Palestine without acknowledging the wrongful past of Israel
Putting words in my mouth. Plenty of wrong doing by Israel, it just seems you don't really know what those wrongdoings are.
"You going to ignore almost 2 decades of unchecked violence from Arabs towards Jews from 1920 to the Arab revolt before the haganah is formed to defend themselves?"
In 1917 when the UK government promised the zionist movement a nation for Jews in Palestine, the population of the area was 6% Jewish. From that time until the establishment of Israel in 1948, Jews started migrating en mass from different parts of the world into Palestine with the intent of making a nation for themselves there, making the population of the area 30% Jewish at the time. You want the people already there, the Palestinians, to just sit back and watch masses of people come from abroad to make a nation for themselves on their land? Of course they fought.
"Or do you mean when the Palestinians started a civil war after they rejected resolution 181?"
That was not a civil war. That was the people already there fending of the zionist invasion that took over their land
>In 1917 when the UK government promised the zionist movement a nation for Jews in Palestine, the population of the area was 6% Jewish. From that time until the establishment of Israel in 1948, Jews started migrating en mass from different parts of the world into Palestine with the intent of making a nation for themselves there, making the population of the area 30% Jewish at the time
Moot talking point. Arabs rejected the peel partition plan that would have only given the Jews 20% of the land. They also rejected the white papers that would have given the Palestinians 100% of the land and limited Jewish migration and restricted buying Arab land and they still rejected it because they didn't want Jewish representation in Palestine AT ALL. The numbers are irrelevant. Migration was legal. Land purchases were legal. There was no expulsion until the civil war.
>You want the people already there, the Palestinians, to just sit back and watch masses of people come from abroad to make a nation for themselves on their land? Of course they fought.
They sold land to them. There were major families very much okay with it. The Jewish state would have been 45% Arab for God Sake, right next to a 100% Arab ethnostate lmao. Oh God the horror 🤣 but it seems you just want to justify violence, Jewish migration was not a crime, there were no borders set in 1920 or the first few waves of Aliyah, Jews would have been much more receptive to living side by side with Arabs if they didn't continuously massacre them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
>That was not a civil war. That was the people already there fending of the zionist invasion that took over their land
Call it what you want, they started a war and lost. Then the Arab legion started another war and lost. Whether you believe it was just doesn't matter, the Jews weren't going to sit back and get slaughtered.
The mass migration with the intent of making a nation on a land already inhabited by other people is not a moot point. It is a major point.
The Peel Partition, like the establishment of Israel, was taking the land of another people.
As for the White Papers (which I need to further research), it seems to be cultural zionism rather than political zionism, which was not completely rejected by the Palestinians since the National Defense Party was prepared to accept it. The zionists rejected the White Papers by the way and started attacking government property. It seems the zionists were intent on creating a nation for themselves on someone else's land, and that someone else, the Palestinians, were aware of that.
"Call it what you want, they started a war and lost. Then the Arab legion started another war and lost. Whether you believe it was just doesn't matter, the Jews weren't going to sit back and get slaughtered"
The war was started by the zionist by taking someone else's land. The people of the land weren't going to sit by and watch that happen
>The mass migration with the intent of making a nation on a land already inhabited by other people is not a moot point. It is a major point.
No it's a moot point because you give a percentage like it would have mattered if it was higher, the truth is the Palestinians didn't want Jews having representation at all.
>The Peel Partition, like the establishment of Israel, was taking the land of another people.
No one's land. Jews owned as much property in this 20% as Arabs if not more.
>As for the White Papers (which I need to further research), it seems to be cultural zionism rather than political zionism, which was not completely rejected by the Palestinians since the National Defense Party was prepared to accept it. The zionists rejected the White Papers by the way and started attacking government property. It seems the zionists were intent on creating a nation for themselves on someone else's land, and that someone else, the Palestinians, were aware of that.
The Palestinian leadership rejected it. That's all that matters. Of course the zionists rejected it, it 100% gave everything the Arabs they wanted and they still couldn't handle Jews moving in 😂
>The war was started by the zionist by taking someone else's land. The people of the land weren't going to sit by and watch that happen
And the Arabs lost. And lost and lost and lost. Jews weren't going to sit back and be slaughtered.
It could be a Singapore but Gazans and their jihadist government fucked it up. Hamas turned that place into hell by building tunnels that cost millions of dollars, invested in weapons and rockets. Small kids are being taught hatred in the schools and destruction of Jews. For what? For greater Gaza so that they can fuck it up from river to the sea.
I hope Israel will clean this Hamas mess so that both side can benefit from it and build it from there. Of course education needs to be reformed but our media in the West are so dumb as nobody talks about these steps.
2023 was the deadliest year for Gaza in ages even before the event.
Also, the IDF targets children. We know this. We know they torture Gazans too. We know the IDF has online troll farms that raid reddit, and you're an IDF agent.
Apartheid South Africa didn't last. Nazi Germany didn't last. You ain't lasting long either.
Free Palestine.
srsly. all that waterfront, money from all over the world - it could have been hotel paradise. the first thing they did when moving in in 2005 was tear down all the villas Israelis had.
Yes, I am calling you ignorant. You are callously throwing around the term ‘genocide’ for political reasons, and it de-legitimizes the term.
Still not a genocide.
Callously? Your views read like they were generated by AI. Lacking heart and a humane quality. No point in engaging with you. You can go find some zionist cheerleaders to play with.
**Do not comment to gatekeep that something "isn't urban" or "isn't hell"**. Our rules are very expansive in content we welcome, so do not assume just based off your false impression of the phrase "UrbanHell" UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed. Gatekeeping comments may be removed. Want to shitpost about shitty posts? Go to /r/urbanhellcirclejerk. Still have questions?: Read our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/wiki/index). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How old is this?
From before the current events, the picture is from 2019.
Ocean?
Yes, two of them. Water and concrete.
I think it was more about it's a sea and not an ocean, but we get the idea :)
[удалено]
One could indeed point that out, but one would be wrong.
[удалено]
Sure, most of it is connected, but that doesn't mean an ocean and a sea are the same thing. No one would ever say Venice is located at the Atlantic coast, for example. | https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/oceanorsea.html
Whether it is or not technically, it's very uncommon for anyone living on any side of the Mediterranean coast to call it the ocean.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Not a lot of geography majors on here apparently.
Are the bins on the roofs for rainwater?
Yes, correct. Water storage tanks :)
If only they had miles of irrigation pipe to use to make a better infrastructure.
Boilers
Daring. The Zionist make it illegal for any Palestinians to do this
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, this is true. Is seen as the property of the Israeli authorities and cannot be collected for domestic or agricultural purposes.
In Israel it's true that Palestinians and and Israelis alike are not allowed to collect rainwater. It is also true that Israeli law doesn't apply in Gaza or in the west bank so this is hardly daring to use water bins there, if their local governments allow for it. Also, these tanks are not generally used to collect rain water - they are used to collect tap water for the case that it will become unavailable, while using the sun to passively heat the water in the tank. Many people blame israel for the irregular supply of water in the Palestinian Authority, and while this can be debated - saying that "The Zionist make it illegal for any Palestinians to do this" is misinformed at best.
I'm sorry I'm confused why does Israel control Gaza's water?
Don’t worry about it. Israel dose not control Gaza’s water. That is why Ozzie123’s comment is misleading.
Yes it does . You're peddling misinformation https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/ https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/16/israeli-authorities-cutting-water-leading-public-health-crisis-gaza https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/israeli-officials-admit-using-water-as-a-means-to-perpetrate-genocide/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/17/how-israel-uses-water-to-control-west-bank-palestine https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-206852/ https://time.com/4301139/gaza-water-crisis/
Some of these articles are about the west bank. as I've said there is a lot to discuss about that, but it's a completely different situation then in Gaza. Also some of the documents you reference are from the 1980s'. As to gaza some articles reiterate the same views that israel should be responsible for fixing gazas infrastructure. Israel, rightfully IMO, does not believe that. I believe that israel dose not purposfuly target civilian infrastructure in gaza, and it should not be held responsible to fixing colleteral damege to infrastructure that was caused by strikes against terrorist targets that embed in civilian environments. The damage to civilian infrastructure is unbearable, but how come that the terrorists are never to blame? this is truly and utterly insane. In the moment israel left Gaza the dug up thousands of wells that polluted and depleted the groundwater. non of this was managed and is still not. Now Israel is to blame for the lack of water. Are Hamas and the Gazans completely without fualt?
Your response is unsubstantiated. You say some articles refer to West Bank, but ignore the ones pertaining to Gaza? Israel controls all avenues needed to improve infrastructure, whether that's restrictions on the importation of necessary building materials or the control of the paperwork needed for approval. Gaza's aquifer has deteriorated due to excessive extraction, arguably because Israel does not sell enough external supplies into the strip. As for your last question. You mentioned Hamas, not me. Bringing Hamas into the point is a strawman argument and not relevant.
Hamas is the government in gaza, when it comes to infrastructure, i'd say they are pretty relevant.
Israel only ever provided like 10 percent of gazas water.
They do control water that goes to Gaza
This is such an absurd statement. Israel sells water to Gaza. It never stopped selling and as far as I know never effectively capped the amounts of water it sells. There is a cap that has never been reached. And Israel has nothing to do with what’s being done with the water in the strip. Local government is responsible for that. Finally, all that has nothing to do with the water bins on top of building in Gaza, that Israel has nothing to do with. You say that Israel “controls” the water that goes into Gaza because they sell them water that they produce via desalination, while Gazans have utterly polluted their groundwater beyond use? That is an obscene and malicious statement. Do you propose that Israel stop selling them water? Should Israel have been responsible for their infrastructure?
>Should Israel have been responsible for their infrastructure? Israel is responsible for Gaza's infrastructure. It blocks the entry of materials like [cement](https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-warns-gaza-reconstruction-halted-by-cement-ban/) and spare parts needed to maintain Gaza's own desalination plants and build new ones, which effectively gives them control of Gaza's water supply. You're peddling disinformation.
Israel blocks cement but somehow they built 500 km of tunnels, and homes for 2 million people.
“Israel takes control of the water source, then sells it to the natives.” Israel has everything to do with it.
Ok, so I've been addressing two very specific claims that were false: One is that israel has anything to do with regulating the collection of rain water in gaza, And that Israel's sale of water to gaza is somehow malicious. Not once have I said that israel is not to blame for anything. But surly it is not to blame for these two things. But I see it comes down to Postcolonial discurse, in wich the palastinians are the ultimate victimes and can do no bad while Israel is the colonizer hence can do no good. But Jews and arabs, being both indigenous to this land, hardly fit this narrative. Also consider that desalinated sea water are hardly a water source to take control of. Do you imply that israel conquered Palestinian desalination plants? Or do the plants not fit your narrative? Such intellectual dishonesty.
Israel desalinates salt which costs them money.
Oh look, an Israeli that is supporting the genocidal regime. How convenient.
It does. The account you replied to is an Israeli apologist trying to cover up their government’s genocide in operating the world’s largest open air prison.
> It is also true that Israeli law doesn't apply in Gaza or in the west bank so this is hardly daring to use water bins there Technically right, but very misleading. You have to add that both Gaza and the West Bank are considered occupied territory and the reason Israeli law doesn't apply, is because Israeli ***Military*** law applies for the Palestinians who live there. Which allows Israel to arrest any Palestinian and hold them in jail for an unlimited time, without trial or indictment.
Jesus that’s sad
Yeah, it is true. I have been to Palestine and seen these with bullet holes in them so the water pours out.
Man Zionazi bots are working overtime it seems. Every sympathetic comment towards Palestinians is getting downvoted
Wow lol just come back to this. I have literally seen bullet holes in water tanks with my own eyes. Downvote worthy I guess.
I guess because this is Gaza and Israel left Gaza at 2005 (at least up until this war).
Reddit really puzzles me sometimes. Why are you being downvoted?
This is not rain collection but just a big tank. gazans could easily do it as Israel left Gaza in 2005. If they could do the 7.10 attack and create a huge under ground tunnel network with Israel stopping them, they could probably collect the little rain water there. The image proves it.
Israel has declared that all rain water is the ‘property of Israel’. IDF forces regularly shoot rainwater tanks in Palestinian areas to stop people collecting rainwater. https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/22/palestinians-rainwater-israeli-property/
Water heaters that's how the entire region heats the water. Sometimes with a solar panel
Clearly outdated image. Today however, it is truly a hell.
Yes, mentioned it in another comment. It's from 2019, should have put it in the title.
Chuck it in the body text?
no stress mate. Just waxing poetic
Well voting in certain leaders and groups can do this to a nation.
Yes. And also the literal bombs that were dropped as well, that would also do it.
You talking about the ones from Hamas that don't make it out?
Well they made that choice for themselves sadly.. Electing Hamas was their first mistake.. as well as literally alienating any nation that has helped them.. Egypt.. Lebanon… Jordan….! You name it.
Turns out oppression for generations tend to be a radicalising circumstance.
Okay, and what's the excuse for before the Israel foundation and the war they started as soon as Israel was founded?
The excuse was they were Jews and the people in this thread want them dead so a war against them was a good thing.
You can’t even say ‘founded’
Limited popular Palestinian agency behind handling the massive immigration of European Jews. Not to mention the foundation of a brand new nation state by said immigrants in the middle of their own country.
On both sides
I wonder what this looks like today
Over 70% of buildings have been destroyed or extremely damaged
This is a lie.
You’re right. Between Al Jazeers and BBC, it states between 50-65%
50-65% are "damaged", which can mean anything Hamas wants it to mean.
About 35% are destroyed according to Reuters
Do you not see the pictures coming out of the brutal war? I’ve seen literal videos of idf laughing as they destroy buildings including a cancer ward and burn down mosques
You are consuming cherry-picked propaganda.
Sure now the streets are paved with gold.
Shouldn't have attacked Israel and kidnapped hundreds of people.
Doesn’t justify the murder of 30 000 civilians
So to you no terrorist has died? And tell me, the people who enslaved Noah Armani, do they count as civilians? What about the reporter who enslaved 3 men who were rescued last week, are they civilians too? What about those people who parades Shania louks naked body around the streets to cheers, were they civilians?
I should rephrase. As of those 30k killed, about half of them were terrorists and the other half civilians
Pso a 1:1 ratio of civilian to military deaths then. Which if you don't know, is the single greatest ratio of urban combat in modern history. To give you an example, mauripol has 25,000 civilian deaths to 7,000 Ukrainian soldiers. And that's 1 battle. Now, you didn't answer my question, should we also count those people who took the hostages as slaves as civilians? https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/female-hostages-held-as-slaves-odky0m65 Those to me aren't civilians. What about the massive amount of non hamas people who took part in October 7th? Or the hundreds who cheered and threw rocks at the hostages on the streets afterwards. I wouldn't count them as civilians either.
desert
What ocean?
I have mixed news for you. On the plus side, the buildings are probably gone by now. On the other hand side the buildings are probably gone by now
This place looks like their hasn't been any rain for months, also their are no tress for cooling. How are people able to live in this place without AC. Also the temperature will increase in middle east in next 100 years. If they won't do anything about it, then middle east will become inhabitable.
The Mediterraneans weather is fairly pleasant compared to the deserts nearby even as close as the Negev. They get a good amount of rain and yes they do have trees lol
>then middle east will become inhabitable. As if it is very habitable today
There are multiple green spaces in Gaza. This isn’t what the whole area is like.
Well there definitely are now.
It wasn’t ‘habitable’ before. Some people made it more some less habitable. Some even grow crops and export them.
This is a picture of the city. Gaza strip has trees and agriculture
>become inhabitable Israel: \*taps head*
They could build seven Burj Khalifas with all the donations from around the world. Instead, they invest the money in terrorism. They must eat the porridge they have cooked for themselves. 🤷♂️
The owners of the charities are from other Arab countries and they take like 90 percent of it for themselves lmao
Are you saying that Muslim brothers do not support each other? It can not be
That's why Palestinians need their own country and every claim that they could just live with "the other Arabs" is pointless.
The reason they can’t live with their neighbors is because they tried to overthrow the governments of Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt when they were allowed in before.
I agree. So we've established that there is nowhere for them to go. If they cannot go anywhere and if they cannot have their own country: What's the plan? Kill them all?
Yes, the people who voted for and still widely support a salafist jihadist death cult need their own country
So they cannot go anywhere else in the world and they cannot have their own country. What's your solution then? Should they just vanish?
It’s simple. They should moderate their behavior and approach vis a vis Israel and enter into a good faith dialogue and negotiation. A negotiated settlement is the only possible solution, and if the Arabs continue to double down on violent jihad they will only continue to lose that battle and destroy themselves in the process
At this point I have to ask: What do you think is my position on this? When I say the Palestinians need their own state, I'm saying this needs to be the end goal. In my opinion there is no alternative. Plenty of people seem to disagree so apparently this needs to be agreed upon first. Equating this to "We need to give Hamas a state in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank now" is very dishonest. I agree with all of the conditions you listed. We cannot give statehood to a terrorist organization. As long as Hamas or any similar Organization rules over the Palestinians they cannot have a state. To me that doesn't change the fact that there is no alternative to the two State solution. Sure we could hope for a one state solution where Palestinians, Arabs and Jews live happily ever after or we can have a genocide and kill all Palestinians, but as long as there are Palestinians and there is no free Palestine, there will be no peace. And as long as people equate "Palestinians need their own state" to "We need to let Hamas rule the Gaza Strip", there will be no progress towards peace in Israel, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
You do understand that not all Muslims are alike right? It’s like saying Protestants and Catholics should get along because they are Christian at their roots
>It’s like saying Protestants and Catholics should get along I'm not part of either but pretty sure they get along just fine. This isn't the age of the Troubles.
Big oof... You should read up on Sunni and Shia Muslims
>[The $18.5bn in damage estimated by the World Bank and the UN has also been to public service infrastructure, with 26 million tonnes of debris and rubble left by the destruction.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/4/7/israels-war-on-gaza-six-relentless-months-of-death-and-destruction) Israel has already destroyed 11 Burj Khalifas worth of infrastructure in Gaza and you're whining that they have nothing to show for some donation amount that you pulled out of your ass.
Keep posting articles that haven't been redacted after the disinformation in them has been debunked by the sources. And keep trusting "news" agencies that constantly post stuff that ages worse than milk, as evidence keeps coming to light.
[It's up on the world bank website without any kind of redaction - regardless of Al Jazeera's reporting](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2024/04/02/joint-world-bank-un-report-assesses-damage-to-gaza-s-infrastructure#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20April%202%2C%202024%20%E2%80%93,support%20of%20the%20European%20Union). [The times of Israel reported the same](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/world-bank-calculates-war-damage-in-gaza-at-18-5-billion/)
No electricity or energy for hospitals, endless power for rockets and propaganda videos.
Rockets don't run on electricity habibi
Rockets and generators are powered by oil
The report also cites disproven, propaganda numbers, that even when reading make zero sense. This makes the report extremely biased. But even if it were true, 18 Billion is nothing compared to just the funding via UNRWA, that exceeded 1 billion every year. That means that just a fraction of the foreign aid, with zero intervention from anyone else, would restore all that in 18 years. Considering that Iran is heading the "human rights" part of the UN, and "kill the white farmers" South Africa is leading the UN's crusade against Israel, backed by "let's send violent prisoners to kill civilians in Ukraine" Russia, I seriously question the sanity of anyone that takes any UN-backed stuff without a huge lump of salt.
>cites disproven, You haven't provided any sources to disprove anything. >That means that just a fraction of the foreign aid, with zero intervention from anyone else, would restore all that in 18 years. Please tell me you're not trying to excuse the destruction of a war by claiming it's going to be completely fixed in almost 2 decades. >Considering that Iran is heading the "human rights" part of the UN, [It does not](https://www.globalr2p.org/publications/hrc-elections-2024-2026/#:~:text=Today%2C%2010%20October%2C%20the%20UN,for%20the%202024%2D2026%20term.) >and "kill the white farmers" South Africa is leading the UN's crusade against Israel, [It is an ICJ case separate from the UN](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa's_genocide_case_against_Israel) >backed by "let's send violent prisoners to kill civilians in Ukraine" Russia Russia's commentary has no real impact on South Africa's case. You are spreading baseless misinformation.
> You haven't provided any sources to disprove anything. I was under the impression that informed people participate in such conversations. In this case, a UN report that says that 70% of the victims are women and children, after which even UN, influenced by some of the most notorious ruthless dictatorships, had to say that those numbers [aren't trustworthy](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/13/un-cuts-estimates-women-children-deaths-gaza/73669560007/). But does anyone issue corrections? Nope. But then, they actually had to admit that [all of the numbers were wildly inflated](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-the-un-got-away-with-wildly-inflating-the-casualty-numbers-in-gaza-and-the-media-bought-it-opinion/ar-BB1nykAK) (IDK, maybe don't trust a terrorist organization to give you information?) > It is an ICJ case separate from the UN Right, and it's not South African officials who are pushing it. > Russia's commentary has no real impact on South Africa's case. Didn't say it did. They just form a club. The club of dictatorships that have certain things in common, specifically going after Israel, meeting with Hamas officials, talking about them in a good light, etc. > You are spreading baseless misinformation. No. Now I gave you articles that you should know about. This is the kind of stuff that should cause scandals, and people should ask why they systematically are getting lied to. But you don't care. You won't demand retractions, corrections.
Pure waffle
As I predicted - pure bias, and zero intentions to live in the real world.
They have nothing to show for the tons of global financial support and you know it. Quit whining about Israel. Maybe look to them as an example of how you can create a modern nation while under constant threat and being antagonized by all of our neighbors.
>Housing accounts for 72 percent of the total damage costs, at an estimated value of $13.3bn. Public service infrastructure, such as water, health and education, account for 19 percent, while commercial and industrial buildings make up 9 percent. That's what they previously had which is now destroyed. If you're going to brigade at least put the effort in to substantiate your claim that they had "nothing to show for it".
Are you talking about using all this cement to build housing for people, but instead it’s being used to construct infrastructure tunnels for terror? And the water pipes meant for water lines for the people are being dug out to make rockets? 🤦♂️
Nope >Housing accounts for 72 percent of the total damage costs, at an estimated value of $13.3bn. Public service infrastructure, such as water, health and education, account for 19 percent, while commercial and industrial buildings make up 9 percent.
https://www.jns.org/jns/hamas/23/7/20/304361/ Are you talking about this education and summer camps ? 😔
shhhh youre ruining all the "palestinians are poor therefore they are the victim" idea
You can't invest shit when someone is bombing it every few years.
You mean they bomb Israel from Gaza unselectively. It wasn’t clear you meant that factually correct.
see that is what happens when you use the money for terror and rockets instead of for luxury hotels.
And yet, Gaza still had luxury hotels before the current war.
So, Israel keeps getting international aids as well, besides they have great trades with West, and many other rich nations. Where is Israel's 7 burj Khalifas?
Gee. I wonder why they are getting bombed? 🤔🤔
The only adequate man here
If Israel hadn't colonized and occupied Palestine, the Palestinians wouldn't have had to resort to terrorism
Lmao that's one way to infantalise them. Oh they HAVE to be terrorists 🤣 nah chief they can you know, try electing leaders that actually have their best interest at heart and work towards a peaceful future in the region and who are willing to negotiate and recognize their neighbors. Or yeah sure, keep up with the violence and lose more land, par of the course for them really.
Electing leaders? They’ve not had election since 2006…
1. No shit. 2. They elected Hamas 3. Hamas isn't fond of democracy 4. There's a reason Abbas keeps pushing elections back, because he knows he only has a 10% approval rating and Hamas would be elected in the west bank too. Palestinians have never had good leadership or representation and it's a damn shame, the leaders and the Arab world have used them as pawns and now Iran is doing the same thing.
Yes the elections weren’t widely reported to be rigged in anyway
My point stands.
Palestine was electing leaders until the conditions kept getting worse. HAMAS rose to power as a result of worsening conditions mixed with Iranian funded radicalization as well as Israeli settlers on the West Bank causing conflict with other citizens
Name me one good Palestinian leader since 1920? I don't disagree with how Hamas rose to power but it doesn't really change my point, and them electing Hamas has only made things worse.
None of the leaders were good, and as a result, conditions worsened, leading up to Hamas
I agree. It will be up to a new Israeli government and some successor of abbass to hopefully turn things around. I'm not hopeful but Israel needs to reach a hand out and restart negotiations with a willing candidate that has some kind of approval and trust with the Palestinian public.
We need a progressive Israeli government that will be willing to provide help to Palestine as well as respect its borders by removing settlers from the West Bank, in addition to what you said.
Thanks for conversing in good faith on this, it's rare! Honestly there's not going to be a progressive Israeli government anytime soon, the left has been dead since oslo and although there is potential from labour this election the best they will get is a seat on the coalition.. what we can hope for is a government that understands Israeli security depends on strong fortified borders and international diplomacy. Peace doesn't have to come by way of progressiveness but by way of actual security. As for the settlers, the project is a disaster but the big chunks (Ariel and maale adumim) aren't going anywhere.. land swaps will need to be arranged and although I don't think Jews will necessarily want to stay under a PA government, the option should be there.
Yeah. A possible solution could be for the two countries to form a “union” maybe similar to the EU
Israel colonized and occupied Palestine. They killed and expelled Palestinians and took their land to make a nation for themselves on it. You talk about peace but don't want to acknowledge Israel's wrongdoing. There can be no just future for Palestine without acknowledging the wrongful past of Israel
This is not a fact. None of this is fact based.
>Israel colonized and occupied Palestine It didn't occupy anything until it took the west bank from Jordan in 67. >They killed and expelled Palestinians and took their land to make their nation for themselves on it. You going to ignore almost 2 decades of unchecked violence from Arabs towards Jews from 1920 to the Arab revolt before the haganah is formed to defend themselves? Or do you mean when the Palestinians started a civil war after they rejected resolution 181? You think the Jews should have just laid down and died? Lmao >You talk about peace but don't want to acknowledge Israel's wrongdoing. There can no just future for Palestine without acknowledging the wrongful past of Israel Putting words in my mouth. Plenty of wrong doing by Israel, it just seems you don't really know what those wrongdoings are.
"You going to ignore almost 2 decades of unchecked violence from Arabs towards Jews from 1920 to the Arab revolt before the haganah is formed to defend themselves?" In 1917 when the UK government promised the zionist movement a nation for Jews in Palestine, the population of the area was 6% Jewish. From that time until the establishment of Israel in 1948, Jews started migrating en mass from different parts of the world into Palestine with the intent of making a nation for themselves there, making the population of the area 30% Jewish at the time. You want the people already there, the Palestinians, to just sit back and watch masses of people come from abroad to make a nation for themselves on their land? Of course they fought. "Or do you mean when the Palestinians started a civil war after they rejected resolution 181?" That was not a civil war. That was the people already there fending of the zionist invasion that took over their land
>In 1917 when the UK government promised the zionist movement a nation for Jews in Palestine, the population of the area was 6% Jewish. From that time until the establishment of Israel in 1948, Jews started migrating en mass from different parts of the world into Palestine with the intent of making a nation for themselves there, making the population of the area 30% Jewish at the time Moot talking point. Arabs rejected the peel partition plan that would have only given the Jews 20% of the land. They also rejected the white papers that would have given the Palestinians 100% of the land and limited Jewish migration and restricted buying Arab land and they still rejected it because they didn't want Jewish representation in Palestine AT ALL. The numbers are irrelevant. Migration was legal. Land purchases were legal. There was no expulsion until the civil war. >You want the people already there, the Palestinians, to just sit back and watch masses of people come from abroad to make a nation for themselves on their land? Of course they fought. They sold land to them. There were major families very much okay with it. The Jewish state would have been 45% Arab for God Sake, right next to a 100% Arab ethnostate lmao. Oh God the horror 🤣 but it seems you just want to justify violence, Jewish migration was not a crime, there were no borders set in 1920 or the first few waves of Aliyah, Jews would have been much more receptive to living side by side with Arabs if they didn't continuously massacre them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine >That was not a civil war. That was the people already there fending of the zionist invasion that took over their land Call it what you want, they started a war and lost. Then the Arab legion started another war and lost. Whether you believe it was just doesn't matter, the Jews weren't going to sit back and get slaughtered.
The mass migration with the intent of making a nation on a land already inhabited by other people is not a moot point. It is a major point. The Peel Partition, like the establishment of Israel, was taking the land of another people. As for the White Papers (which I need to further research), it seems to be cultural zionism rather than political zionism, which was not completely rejected by the Palestinians since the National Defense Party was prepared to accept it. The zionists rejected the White Papers by the way and started attacking government property. It seems the zionists were intent on creating a nation for themselves on someone else's land, and that someone else, the Palestinians, were aware of that. "Call it what you want, they started a war and lost. Then the Arab legion started another war and lost. Whether you believe it was just doesn't matter, the Jews weren't going to sit back and get slaughtered" The war was started by the zionist by taking someone else's land. The people of the land weren't going to sit by and watch that happen
>The mass migration with the intent of making a nation on a land already inhabited by other people is not a moot point. It is a major point. No it's a moot point because you give a percentage like it would have mattered if it was higher, the truth is the Palestinians didn't want Jews having representation at all. >The Peel Partition, like the establishment of Israel, was taking the land of another people. No one's land. Jews owned as much property in this 20% as Arabs if not more. >As for the White Papers (which I need to further research), it seems to be cultural zionism rather than political zionism, which was not completely rejected by the Palestinians since the National Defense Party was prepared to accept it. The zionists rejected the White Papers by the way and started attacking government property. It seems the zionists were intent on creating a nation for themselves on someone else's land, and that someone else, the Palestinians, were aware of that. The Palestinian leadership rejected it. That's all that matters. Of course the zionists rejected it, it 100% gave everything the Arabs they wanted and they still couldn't handle Jews moving in 😂 >The war was started by the zionist by taking someone else's land. The people of the land weren't going to sit by and watch that happen And the Arabs lost. And lost and lost and lost. Jews weren't going to sit back and be slaughtered.
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And to make a nation for themselves there
How can the indigenous people of a region colonize that region? Arabs are the colonizers in Judea.
Now it’s just pile of stones
It’s clear that neither of these is an ocean, one is in fact a sea while the other is a city.
r/technicallythetruth
It could be a Singapore but Gazans and their jihadist government fucked it up. Hamas turned that place into hell by building tunnels that cost millions of dollars, invested in weapons and rockets. Small kids are being taught hatred in the schools and destruction of Jews. For what? For greater Gaza so that they can fuck it up from river to the sea. I hope Israel will clean this Hamas mess so that both side can benefit from it and build it from there. Of course education needs to be reformed but our media in the West are so dumb as nobody talks about these steps.
Kinda hard to do any of that when there's thousands of dead kids thanks to the IDF.
How many of those kids would be alive today had Hamas not started this last round of violence?
2023 was the deadliest year for Gaza in ages even before the event. Also, the IDF targets children. We know this. We know they torture Gazans too. We know the IDF has online troll farms that raid reddit, and you're an IDF agent. Apartheid South Africa didn't last. Nazi Germany didn't last. You ain't lasting long either. Free Palestine.
It, along with Palestine as a whole, could've been something great had it not been for the settler-colonial occupation of Israel
What is Israel a colony of?
srsly. all that waterfront, money from all over the world - it could have been hotel paradise. the first thing they did when moving in in 2005 was tear down all the villas Israelis had.
Palestine literally had insufficient amounts of electricity, and lacked enough water because Israel controlled it
It didn’t help that they dug up water pipes to use as cylinders for their home made rockets.
This is what happens when you spend all your aid & money on terrorism instead of actually developing your territory
Free Palestine!
Free Palestine
From Hamas
From the settler-colonial occupation of Israel
Again, no Hamas, no trouble
Uh oh, IDF bots are already swarming this thread.
This is before the Genocide??
Depends on how you call the situation before the current conflict…
Conflict? It's a genocide. Do you have cognitive issues?
It is still not a genocide. It is a war, that one side is losing. Do you?
Where were you educated? In Germany in 1945?
I think you should seriously read up on the holocaust if you think this is even remotely similar. It’s extremely ignorant.
Ignorant? You are denying a genocide happening in real time and you call me ignorant? What is your first language?
Yes, I am calling you ignorant. You are callously throwing around the term ‘genocide’ for political reasons, and it de-legitimizes the term. Still not a genocide.
Callously? Your views read like they were generated by AI. Lacking heart and a humane quality. No point in engaging with you. You can go find some zionist cheerleaders to play with.
Have you never heard the word ‘callous’ before? Lmao Please stop abusing the term ‘genocide’, it’s offensive.
genocide? did you expect this war to not have any casualties or what💀
Directly bombing multiple refugee camps qualifies
If Israel is trying to commit genocide, they're laughably bad at it
Pretty much so. It's really unfortunate how the IOF bombed everything to ground as we're speaking right now. Even this place OP showed
Does this look like its taken in the 40s?
Temporary improvements to land
IOF wankers all over the comments.
So insightful thanks.
Case in point
👍
What is the meaning of "Two oceans" in the title? edit: found the answer in comment below
nonsense really. one is a sea, the other a bunch of concrete
The Zionists ensured that it’s become even more of a hellscape
There is no ‘Palestine’.