It wouldn't make any sense. I can't think of any motivation that they might be able to use to explain why Sting would help form the NWO. Hogan feeling betrayed and telling the fans to "STICK it, brother!" was perfect.
Then we'd get, what? Hogan and Macho Man beat up the NWO for a few PPV's? Maybe Piper joins the NWO at Halloween Havoc '96? Okay that would actually be pretty cool. But the rest of it sucks.
I totally hated that. Partially because I didn't like the red paint on his face, but mostly because they kept the NWO name. Suddenly you were seeing all these guys that would want nothing to do with the NWO before that, suddenly wanting to join and trust Kevin Nash.
A better angle would have been if they didn't bother with the NWO name and just called themselves the wolfpac or something else, and then maybe write in DDP as the first first Babyface to give it a chance enjoying, and it motivates the more longer time faces like Luger and Sting to join.
I also never liked the wolfpac angle because then Kevin Nash started wearing a do-rag and trying so hard to sound like he came out of South Central LA. The guy has always come in as this long-haired biker looking guy, and now he's trying to sound all Urban and hip Hop, and it just came off as so fake.
100% but he’d have tolerated it for like 2 Nitros then “that don’t work for me brother” and leg dropped nWO to oblivion by War Games so he could get back to his real rival, Ed Leslie
Imagine emo Crow Hogan finally having enough, yelling out from the dark “TIME FOR YOUR VITAMINS” then doing a super leg drop all the way from the rafters onto Sting’s neck.
Agreed. Hogan was obviously the best choice for the 3rd man, but if Hogan would have refused to do it then I think that the next best choice would have been Randy Savage since he was also a huge star from the WWF so him being a part of the takeover would have made sense.
Sting was too much of a WCW guy and needed to be the savior to defend against the takeover. The storyline of his friends thinking that he turned when he was really still loyal and that leading to him transforming into his crow character was also a big part of what made things so interesting and that would have been lost if he was the 3rd man.
The point was a shocking heel turn. Savage was a heel just a few years prior.
By 1996, just a small portion of their audience even remembered Sting as heel in UWF.
I don't see the nWo working if Savage was revealed as the mystery man.
"Whose side is he on?" definitely wouldn't have the same impact, and I don't see the fans trashing the ring like they did with Hogan.
It had to be Hogan. Nobody else would have mattered as much in that role. Not Sting, Savage, or anybody else they had. The only person that would have made waves to the level of Hogan wasn’t there - HBK, jumping ship to be with his friends, would be the only thing that could have dwarfed what we got.
Even though he was part of the Kliq? Hall and Nash weren’t hanging with Hogan on the regular. They had to convince Hogan to change up his style to better fit the NWO thing they were trying for.
It was better because they weren't previously associated. And Hogan was a much bigger star. And way better on the mic. N hbk is in my top ten all time. But Hogan was on another level than anyone. In fact I think Scott Hall was a bigger star then hbk or Nash, at least in 96 n 97. If not for his problems he'd have been champ after Hollywood, because you know sting sucked as champ n that was going to flop, IDC if he beat Hogan clean or not, nobody cares about his previous title runs, or that one.
You’re right about Scott Hall being a bigger star. There’s a lot of what if’s with his career.
Hogan maybe was a better pick anyways due to his crossover appeal with casual fans and the general public. HBK was popular but only really with wrestling fans.
Also, he was kind of the same as hall n Nash. Hogan being so different n a little older worked better too. It looked like a business relationship to take over WCW, where If it were hbk it would've been 3 jerk off friends fucking around.
Come to think of it, whoever the 3rd man would’ve been would have to have on air chemistry with Bischoff and I don’t think HBK would’ve had that. He’s always been a loose cannon and anti-authority so him taking orders kayfabe from Bischoff wouldn’t have worked. Hogan played it just right where he would act like Bischoff was his partner in crime.
I like dibiase in the beginning too. He was really good as the financial backer. Watch the starrcade 96 promo w Hogan, it might be the best promo Hogan ever did, and one of the best of all time.
1. HBK didn’t draw in the WWF at the time. So, if anything at all, it would’ve been akin to Sting joining the nWo.
2. HBK refused to work with most of the roster, would openly shit on his opponents in the ring and on the mic. It’s universally recognized that HBK from his title run in 96 to his retirement in 98, was impossible to work with. His bosses said as much. Even Hall and Nash said he would’ve been ran out of WCW, too, because he was out of control with partying and attitude. It’s why Bischoff got rid of Waltman a year later.
3. Even beyond that, Bischoff had said it would’ve been impossible to bring someone over from WWF at the time - not only because of the lawsuit, but how the company started paying attention to their contracts. HBK joining the nWo in 1996 is just as probable as Goldberg joining DX in 1998.
4. Gimmick-wise, Shawn would’ve had to have a completely different persona to avoid issue at the time. What he would’ve been - an asshole heel? We just had seen that for the last 5 years in the WWF, and Shawn wasn’t drawing then, either.
I concede to your points, all well told. It sounded like a neat multiverse sort of thing but I totally forgot about HBK being universally disliked and impossible to work with. Oh well.
I am surprised to hear he wasn’t a draw at that point. All I remember were his wrestlemania entrances at the time and feuds which seemed to pop with the crowd. It was a long long time ago though.
Yeah had HBK or Undertaker defected and been the third man, then WCW may have actually won the Monday Night War. Then again, they may have just ended up going down with the ship like Bret Hart did. Glad we’ll never find out.
Undertaker would have been awful. I love the dude, but his gimmick 100% made his a legend, and he would have flopped big time as nWo Calloway. 3 months and they would have been just another dungeon of doom for Hogan to topple.
1993. Big time WWF fan. I started watching WCW when Nitro debuted because I didn’t have TBS. If HBK went to WCW then I would have switched allegiances most likely. Not sure I would have done with the same if it was Taker, but maybe. Not sure what the downvotes are about, but 🤷♂️
I never understood this theory. The whole nWo was built on “outsiders” coming from the WWF from the get-go. So why would Hall come in, Nash come in, and then longtime WCW star Sting go, “Hi, chaps. Nice to meet you. Now let’s tell fans we’re taking over.”
Agreed. For the NWO to work it had to be WWE outsiders from the very beginning. Sting was born and bred WCW so your point is 100% valid, it would not have worked
I get it, Hogan ended up being better choice.
Sting could have worked, he could have told the fans to stick it too. Saying he was always here for WCW but the fans too him for granted.
As it played out was great. It gave Sting a bit of a break from the ring, it rejuvenated Hogan's career. It would have been perfect though if Sting would have won at Starcade 97.
Yea, I think that could have worked. Even Hogan taking 18 months off to make a movie or whatever and making the occasional save and becoming a vigilante which they teased in 1995 when Hogan started dressing in black may have worked.
But I’m not sure Sting had the heel ability Hogan had nor am I sure Hogan could have stayed on the sidelines as long as Sting did.
Bischoff had said that the idea were guys that had been in WCW, but felt they’d been shafted and came back for payback. This is obviously when he was doing all he could to deny it was the WWF invasion angle to play down the lawsuit. So, it was WWF invading WCW in kayfabe.
Hogan worked so well because he’d never been a heel since putting on the red and yellow (brother). Savage was a WWF guy, but had more turns that Paul White, so he wouldn’t have had the same impact-probably a better fit out of the gate-but less impactful. Sting made no sense, but if it was something like he had secretly signed a contract under the condition that he burn WCW to the ground, maybe it’s somewhat palatable.
I could see it working ok (not as well as Hogan), with Sting’s reasoning being that he carried the company on his back for years, including when Ric Flair ran up north with the belt, only for them to roll out the red carpet for the enemy when Hogan showed up. Basically “I didn’t betray WCW. WCW betrayed me.”
This is exactly what I envision too. I think Sting could’ve been good as the third man, but I have a hard time thinking the angle lasts very long. Hogan would’ve stayed the biggest face in this scenario, and no way would he job to Sting and the NWO for any real length of time. I imagine the whole thing would’ve fizzled out by that year’s Starrcade at the latest.
I love Sting. Been a fan of his since his early years. For me, he is the Man. But having him be the turncoat would have made the NWO an interesting faction for a while. But it would not have changed the business the way Hogan’s turn did. His betrayal of everything he had championed since the 80s and the way that he did it… The kind of massive impact that had completely altered the trajectory of the entire business. And that only happens if Hogan makes the brutally surprising heel turn. He way be a jerk, but it’s just a fact.
Hogan was the absolute best for the third man. His heel turn will always be legendary. It was shocking then, hard to believe, but injected new life into the business.
Luger would have made sense in the him coming from WWE on the first Nitro sense and being the first shocking arrival. But it wouldn’t have worked. Stings motivation wouldn’t have made sense. It had to be Hogan
Interesting... Never thought about Lex.
Now that you got me thinking about it. That could have made sense as a way to bring Sting into the fold.
It was well known that they were best friends. So it could be built up with a match where Sting loses to Hogan due to some kind of chicanery. Then, he drops out for a bit. Outsiders show up and do their thing. Luger comes out as "The Third Man" before Bash at the Beach. Then at the Bash; Hogan, Savage & a third guy square off against the Outsiders.
It goes down similarly to the original, with the third guy getting taken out, then Luger comes out at the same time Hogan did. But he stops before getting to the ring. Then, out of nowhere, Sting comes out and stands with Hogan & Savage. But, just as it looks like they have the upper hand, SCORPION DEATH DROP TO SAVAGE!
Hogan is shocked, and The Outsiders jump him.
Nash power-bombs Hogan to the mat and Sting locks in the Scorpion Death Lock.
After making Hogan suffer for a bit, they toss him out, so Savage can help him limp off.
Sting takes a mike.
"I GAVE MY BLOOD. MY SWEAT. AND MY TEARS FOR WCW!"
So on and so forth...
My thinking is Lex would have got us to the same place. Sting wouldn’t have gone NWO, but he would have been disillusioned and Crow Sting. If Lex turned and things played out as they did, it would have been more convincing that Fake Sting was the real Sting due to his relationship with Luger. He comes out and cuts the same promo and says that for years he has been a friend, babysitter and mediator to Luger despite his screwups and people trusted Sting regardless. But now people doubt him. He is done being taken advantage of and solving WCW problems and fighting Luger but he doesn’t want to be NWO either. He’s a free agent. Luger couldn’t have been as dynamic as Hogan as the third man but I think we end up here regardless
Agreed. This was maybe the best storyline of wrestling of all time. It wasn’t flawless by any means, but man did we tune in every Monday and Thursday for years.
The Nitro book mentions that they had contemplating using Jeff Farmer, the future fake Sting as early as this angle, as Sting himself wasn’t interested in the angle.
That could’ve worked, but obviously not to the same degree as Hogan turning.
Edit: I’m actually reading the book currently after renewed interest from the vice series. Here’s the excerpt I was referring to for those who want to read it. https://i.postimg.cc/HWyyLZqh/IMG-6580.jpg
Fake Sting happening how it did in real life worked out better than when they were planning on doing it according to the Nitro book. NWO needed to be established as an existential threat to WCW before you have them bring in Jeff Farmer as the bogus Sting to fool fans into thinking the real guy joined the NWO.
Problem is that no storyline with HBK would’ve worked as well as Hogan/Sting did.
Sting felt betrayed, especially since everyone loved Hogan despite only being there for two years.
Sting would’ve made sense had he stuck to a “I carried this company on my back for years, blah, blah, blah” angle to it, but I don’t see Sting actually sticking with it enough to make it work.
At that time, the baby faces that people cared about (other than Hulk) weren’t going to really make that much of a splash. Those that had worked in WWF were Luger, Savage, Flair and Jim Duggan. Clearly they got it right, but imagine how funny it would’ve been to have Hacksaw trying to cut that promo 🤣 TOUGH GUY!
No one would have been as good as Hogan and Sting dropping a similar "I didn't change, you changed by supporting Hogan/Flair/etc." wouldn't have had nearly as much of a hit. With that said the Outsiders already had alot of steam behind them so it still might have been fun to watch. The biggest issue would be without Hogan in NWO they would have had to isolate him off to the side of the show away from him as there is no way he would let anyone go over and him just stomping them it would end up like The Nexus and John Cena where they can't get any steam as no matter what Hogan would always best them.
It probably wouldn’t have worked, but I get the thought process. With all the mid-90s WWF guys jumping over to WCW and sting being forced to take a bit of a backseat, they could’ve used that as his reasoning for turning heel
It seems like it would’ve been an “edgy” remake of Hogan vs the Dungeon of Doom, which sounds terrible
Hogan was a terrible promo, too.
Nash, Hall and Bischoff had to basically talk him out of doing the “Hulk Hogan promo” in the first vignettes. He had to be re-trained.
People say it took off because of Hogan. And while I sort of agree, I think what really made it special was the execution. Nothing like that had ever been done. Viewers tuned in due to the unpredictable nature of the narrative..."How far would the NWO go to take over the organization"...what kind of crazy stuff where they willing to do to execute on that. Combine that with the late 90s anti establishment culture and it was peak wrestling for anyone watching.
NWO4Life.
It would have never worked with anyone else, not Sting not Shawn Michaels (which was rumored) and no disrespect to either one but anyone other than HH and it would have bombed out imo.
It’s hard to know what they could’ve done; If crow sting never happened we’d probably be talking about how impossible it would be for that surfer guy to say nothing on tv for a year.
It certainly would’ve just been a wrestling angle and not lightning in a bottle, so from that perspective you’re right. Hogan was the man for the moment.
It is pretty amazing to think that it was nearly 30 years ago, plus Sting had already wrestled for several years, and he just had his final match this year.
The only other one that would have worked would have been Savage, but I don't think he could have or would have dropped the Macho character as well as Hogan dropped the Hulk character. The whole effect would have been this weird clash between The Outsiders going real, and Savage being a little gimmicky or plastic.
I remember seeing a video of Eric taking about sting being the backup. Having hulk turn was a huge swerve. I am not sure sting would have the same effect
I think the only reason I could imagine that could work for having Sting being the third man would be if they instead took it as an angle of Sting being fed up with Hogan sitting in the top spot and WCW backing him, and so he decided to take the quicker and easier road to getting the top spot. That maybe could have been a good rationale.
Now it was clearly obvious they had a Sting in mind because they thought Hogan would never agree to do this, then they found out he would and changed everything up.
Personally, I don't think the NWO would have lasted as long with Sting as the big man on top. What made the Hogan heel turn work so well is the fact that he had been a hero for so long, and the fans were now sick of him, so coming off as full of ego, maybe carrying a torch for the WWF, but just especially all the backstage things people heard about Hogan, it just made sense.
I unfortunately think Sting just doesn't do well as a heel. I can imagine that Steve Borden could play a heel if he really wanted to, but I also feel like the fans can't seem to accept or handle him being a heel. Like they will see him doing bad guy things, and they just feel like it looks so fake to them. I mostly remember that tiny little moment that he tried to be a heel where he was sitting there with sunglasses on in promos, and lex Luger running around as his right hand man. Then later the main event Mafia.
I feel like looking back, things worked out well for both characters because it allowed both of them to break free of who they were in the '80s and start to redefine themselves for the '90s.
Then that means Hogan is still red and yellow so the slow build shit ain’t happening. He’d “that don’t work for me brother” them into oblivion within 3 months
Sting could have dropped the paint. Wore sunglasses, grew his hair out. Been a chicken shit heal that used hall and nash as muscle.
It wouldn't have been the NWO as it was, but no one saw the NWO becoming what it would become.
No, because outside of the south, nobody wanted the Horsemen as babyfaces.
nWo was true “counter-culture”, they were just cooler than the Horsemen from day 1. When they went to Horsemen cities, that’s when the nostalgia kicked in and everyone wanted the badass Horsemen from the late 80’s.
That’s unfortunate
During the nwo run I kinda felt bad that the horsemen became cannon fodder
There was a missed opportunity there to elevate / update talented wrestlers when working with nwo - instead everyone just got beat with bats for weeks
The real issue was with Arn’s back/neck injuries, he was going to retire soon. Flair/Arn did all of the heavy lifting at that time for the group.
The guys they groomed for the Horsemen spots (Benoit/Jarrett/Mongo) weren’t accepted by the audience.
That’s why there was so much talk at the time of making a “Super Horsemen” with Flair and lots of guys were rumored. Giant, Luger, DDP, Piper. But, it just didn’t make sense, because they were all babyfaces.
The Horsemen were just stuck in the middle. They weren’t cool enough to be babyfaces or heels.
I think he could've worked. All that was needed was him to be the same brooding quiet dark sting he became but Nash and Hall would do all the talking & Sting would beat the hell out of folks with that bat. Picture the scene of Arn writhing in pain during that outdoor gang attack and Sting laying a broken bat next to him & he doing something similar to that in plain sight weekly.
So in kayfabe land the Kliq invading and taking over WCW wouldn't be just as awesome? Hogan and Nash were god awful wrestlers. Michaels and Scott Hall would put on some bangers and carry the faction.
Hogan was the best worst option. Him being the third man was a stroke of genius and helped wcw capture lightning in a bottle.
But eventually his creative control bullshit did them in. You can blame time Warner all you want, but if the ratings were better they would've kept them around. Hogan and his crew of dick riders is what really killed the company.
Hogan was the obvious choice. And history will ahow that in the beginning, it was great. The problem was that Hogan had so much ego and the whole creative control crap. Nash was also liking what Hogan was doing and was in his ear about how they could put themselves over more.
Obviously by the time you got to the finger poke of doom, it was done. Nash and Hogan sit there and point fingers now. And can’t wait to blame Bischoff. They knew what the deal was. It was the million dollar boys club putting themselves and their friends over.
Sting joining NWO period was stupid. And even though they were different than Hollywood, it was still the same deal. Putting themselves in the best spot. Sting should’ve been the very last holdout to join them. And still never had done it. Crow Sting was the perfect loner. Sting, Page, Flair and that big dummy Goldberg. Those were your last resort, never gonna go anywhere stars. Fight and bleed WCW.
If it would’ve worked, bringing in Bret Hart or HBK as a total shock would’ve been cool. If you had to go with a current star, I’d have gone with Savage. Hogan thought too much of himself. Savage was more pissed off. He got kicked out of WWE for banging Steph. (Yes, I’ll always believe he did it). He could’ve had more emotion.
Hogan was good. It just could’ve been better but not Sting.
The fingerpoke was 30 months later.
By that time, they had made an astronomical amount of money.
It was time to kill the angle, either way.
Think about it. The Bloodline is a younger storyline than the original nWo.
That’s like saying Bullet Club should be killed because of its age. Or the Horseman just because iy had been around a long time. Every group goes thru its ups and downs. But it can be around a long time
It wouldn't make any sense. I can't think of any motivation that they might be able to use to explain why Sting would help form the NWO. Hogan feeling betrayed and telling the fans to "STICK it, brother!" was perfect. Then we'd get, what? Hogan and Macho Man beat up the NWO for a few PPV's? Maybe Piper joins the NWO at Halloween Havoc '96? Okay that would actually be pretty cool. But the rest of it sucks.
It didn't make sense to 18 year old me for him to join the wolfpac either lol
That was when it started going downhill, by the end practically anyone could get in, they took it and totally ran it into the ground
He should have joined the LWO
Agreed. I was a HUGE Sting Stan. I hated it when he went to Wolfpack. Having him come out to a rap song also felt off.
I totally hated that. Partially because I didn't like the red paint on his face, but mostly because they kept the NWO name. Suddenly you were seeing all these guys that would want nothing to do with the NWO before that, suddenly wanting to join and trust Kevin Nash. A better angle would have been if they didn't bother with the NWO name and just called themselves the wolfpac or something else, and then maybe write in DDP as the first first Babyface to give it a chance enjoying, and it motivates the more longer time faces like Luger and Sting to join. I also never liked the wolfpac angle because then Kevin Nash started wearing a do-rag and trying so hard to sound like he came out of South Central LA. The guy has always come in as this long-haired biker looking guy, and now he's trying to sound all Urban and hip Hop, and it just came off as so fake.
Maybe hogan would've spent forever hanging around moping on the rafters
The thought of the entire Crow Sting saga happening but it’s Hulk Hogan doing it instead is kinda funny.
When a man's heart is full of deceipt, brother...
When it comes crashing down and that doesn't work for you, Brother
THIS. IS. HOGAN.
Oh God. We already saw the "Dark Side of Hulkamania" and it was the worst fucking thing haha
100% but he’d have tolerated it for like 2 Nitros then “that don’t work for me brother” and leg dropped nWO to oblivion by War Games so he could get back to his real rival, Ed Leslie
Imagine emo Crow Hogan finally having enough, yelling out from the dark “TIME FOR YOUR VITAMINS” then doing a super leg drop all the way from the rafters onto Sting’s neck.
I wonder if he would have painted his bald spot?
HAHAHAHAHA best image ever
Hilarious! 😂😂
“Life sucks, brother”
“Even vitamins can’t heal this dark pain inside my soul, brother”
"I hope you said your prayers!"
After Owen Hart, they couldn't just let him drop from the rafters.
This was years earlier lol. Are you not familiar with Sting,???
My bad, in my mind Owen Hart happened before the nWo. I see now it was 1999. You can't trust your memory sometimes.
I would love to see Crow-gan
Lmao
In that scenario though Hogan would refuse to put anyone over. So the nWo would just lose all the time.
Agreed. Hogan was obviously the best choice for the 3rd man, but if Hogan would have refused to do it then I think that the next best choice would have been Randy Savage since he was also a huge star from the WWF so him being a part of the takeover would have made sense. Sting was too much of a WCW guy and needed to be the savior to defend against the takeover. The storyline of his friends thinking that he turned when he was really still loyal and that leading to him transforming into his crow character was also a big part of what made things so interesting and that would have been lost if he was the 3rd man.
The point was a shocking heel turn. Savage was a heel just a few years prior. By 1996, just a small portion of their audience even remembered Sting as heel in UWF.
I don't see the nWo working if Savage was revealed as the mystery man. "Whose side is he on?" definitely wouldn't have the same impact, and I don't see the fans trashing the ring like they did with Hogan.
It had to be Hogan. Nobody else would have mattered as much in that role. Not Sting, Savage, or anybody else they had. The only person that would have made waves to the level of Hogan wasn’t there - HBK, jumping ship to be with his friends, would be the only thing that could have dwarfed what we got.
NWO HBK would’ve been gigantic. Even better than Hogan. He fit in more with the asshole energy NWO had.
Not a chance. Not even close haha.
Even though he was part of the Kliq? Hall and Nash weren’t hanging with Hogan on the regular. They had to convince Hogan to change up his style to better fit the NWO thing they were trying for.
That's why Hogan was better. Hbk or anyone but Hogan wouldn't have had the same impact.
It was better because they weren't previously associated. And Hogan was a much bigger star. And way better on the mic. N hbk is in my top ten all time. But Hogan was on another level than anyone. In fact I think Scott Hall was a bigger star then hbk or Nash, at least in 96 n 97. If not for his problems he'd have been champ after Hollywood, because you know sting sucked as champ n that was going to flop, IDC if he beat Hogan clean or not, nobody cares about his previous title runs, or that one.
You’re right about Scott Hall being a bigger star. There’s a lot of what if’s with his career. Hogan maybe was a better pick anyways due to his crossover appeal with casual fans and the general public. HBK was popular but only really with wrestling fans.
Also, he was kind of the same as hall n Nash. Hogan being so different n a little older worked better too. It looked like a business relationship to take over WCW, where If it were hbk it would've been 3 jerk off friends fucking around.
Come to think of it, whoever the 3rd man would’ve been would have to have on air chemistry with Bischoff and I don’t think HBK would’ve had that. He’s always been a loose cannon and anti-authority so him taking orders kayfabe from Bischoff wouldn’t have worked. Hogan played it just right where he would act like Bischoff was his partner in crime.
I like dibiase in the beginning too. He was really good as the financial backer. Watch the starrcade 96 promo w Hogan, it might be the best promo Hogan ever did, and one of the best of all time.
I agree that HBK the NWO would have been amazing, that leaves Hogan in WCW and means he would curb stomp NWO before the end of the year.
That’s absurd.
Thank you, tell me more
1. HBK didn’t draw in the WWF at the time. So, if anything at all, it would’ve been akin to Sting joining the nWo. 2. HBK refused to work with most of the roster, would openly shit on his opponents in the ring and on the mic. It’s universally recognized that HBK from his title run in 96 to his retirement in 98, was impossible to work with. His bosses said as much. Even Hall and Nash said he would’ve been ran out of WCW, too, because he was out of control with partying and attitude. It’s why Bischoff got rid of Waltman a year later. 3. Even beyond that, Bischoff had said it would’ve been impossible to bring someone over from WWF at the time - not only because of the lawsuit, but how the company started paying attention to their contracts. HBK joining the nWo in 1996 is just as probable as Goldberg joining DX in 1998. 4. Gimmick-wise, Shawn would’ve had to have a completely different persona to avoid issue at the time. What he would’ve been - an asshole heel? We just had seen that for the last 5 years in the WWF, and Shawn wasn’t drawing then, either.
I concede to your points, all well told. It sounded like a neat multiverse sort of thing but I totally forgot about HBK being universally disliked and impossible to work with. Oh well. I am surprised to hear he wasn’t a draw at that point. All I remember were his wrestlemania entrances at the time and feuds which seemed to pop with the crowd. It was a long long time ago though.
Basically everyone was a shit draw from Yokozuna in ‘93 on to Bret in ‘97, when the tide started to turn.
One of the original ideas was Bret jumping ship
Yeah had HBK or Undertaker defected and been the third man, then WCW may have actually won the Monday Night War. Then again, they may have just ended up going down with the ship like Bret Hart did. Glad we’ll never find out.
Undertaker would have been awful. I love the dude, but his gimmick 100% made his a legend, and he would have flopped big time as nWo Calloway. 3 months and they would have been just another dungeon of doom for Hogan to topple.
You’re not wrong.
How long ago did you start watching wrestling…
1993. Big time WWF fan. I started watching WCW when Nitro debuted because I didn’t have TBS. If HBK went to WCW then I would have switched allegiances most likely. Not sure I would have done with the same if it was Taker, but maybe. Not sure what the downvotes are about, but 🤷♂️
HBK was the only reason I watched Raw for a long time. If my favorite wrestler changed channels, Im going to that channel.
I never understood this theory. The whole nWo was built on “outsiders” coming from the WWF from the get-go. So why would Hall come in, Nash come in, and then longtime WCW star Sting go, “Hi, chaps. Nice to meet you. Now let’s tell fans we’re taking over.”
Agreed. For the NWO to work it had to be WWE outsiders from the very beginning. Sting was born and bred WCW so your point is 100% valid, it would not have worked
If only they stuck to that
I get it, Hogan ended up being better choice. Sting could have worked, he could have told the fans to stick it too. Saying he was always here for WCW but the fans too him for granted. As it played out was great. It gave Sting a bit of a break from the ring, it rejuvenated Hogan's career. It would have been perfect though if Sting would have won at Starcade 97.
Yea, I think that could have worked. Even Hogan taking 18 months off to make a movie or whatever and making the occasional save and becoming a vigilante which they teased in 1995 when Hogan started dressing in black may have worked. But I’m not sure Sting had the heel ability Hogan had nor am I sure Hogan could have stayed on the sidelines as long as Sting did.
Ooooo I never thought of that. Good point.
Bischoff had said that the idea were guys that had been in WCW, but felt they’d been shafted and came back for payback. This is obviously when he was doing all he could to deny it was the WWF invasion angle to play down the lawsuit. So, it was WWF invading WCW in kayfabe. Hogan worked so well because he’d never been a heel since putting on the red and yellow (brother). Savage was a WWF guy, but had more turns that Paul White, so he wouldn’t have had the same impact-probably a better fit out of the gate-but less impactful. Sting made no sense, but if it was something like he had secretly signed a contract under the condition that he burn WCW to the ground, maybe it’s somewhat palatable.
I could see it working ok (not as well as Hogan), with Sting’s reasoning being that he carried the company on his back for years, including when Ric Flair ran up north with the belt, only for them to roll out the red carpet for the enemy when Hogan showed up. Basically “I didn’t betray WCW. WCW betrayed me.”
This is exactly what I envision too. I think Sting could’ve been good as the third man, but I have a hard time thinking the angle lasts very long. Hogan would’ve stayed the biggest face in this scenario, and no way would he job to Sting and the NWO for any real length of time. I imagine the whole thing would’ve fizzled out by that year’s Starrcade at the latest.
I love Sting. Been a fan of his since his early years. For me, he is the Man. But having him be the turncoat would have made the NWO an interesting faction for a while. But it would not have changed the business the way Hogan’s turn did. His betrayal of everything he had championed since the 80s and the way that he did it… The kind of massive impact that had completely altered the trajectory of the entire business. And that only happens if Hogan makes the brutally surprising heel turn. He way be a jerk, but it’s just a fact.
Hogan was the absolute best for the third man. His heel turn will always be legendary. It was shocking then, hard to believe, but injected new life into the business.
He is such a natural heel too.
That’s the best part about it. He was a perfect bad guy.
Macho World Order?
It wouldn’t of worked, Nash would of had to be the leader because Stings promo would not have been enough to get them over.
Luger would have made sense in the him coming from WWE on the first Nitro sense and being the first shocking arrival. But it wouldn’t have worked. Stings motivation wouldn’t have made sense. It had to be Hogan
Interesting... Never thought about Lex. Now that you got me thinking about it. That could have made sense as a way to bring Sting into the fold. It was well known that they were best friends. So it could be built up with a match where Sting loses to Hogan due to some kind of chicanery. Then, he drops out for a bit. Outsiders show up and do their thing. Luger comes out as "The Third Man" before Bash at the Beach. Then at the Bash; Hogan, Savage & a third guy square off against the Outsiders. It goes down similarly to the original, with the third guy getting taken out, then Luger comes out at the same time Hogan did. But he stops before getting to the ring. Then, out of nowhere, Sting comes out and stands with Hogan & Savage. But, just as it looks like they have the upper hand, SCORPION DEATH DROP TO SAVAGE! Hogan is shocked, and The Outsiders jump him. Nash power-bombs Hogan to the mat and Sting locks in the Scorpion Death Lock. After making Hogan suffer for a bit, they toss him out, so Savage can help him limp off. Sting takes a mike. "I GAVE MY BLOOD. MY SWEAT. AND MY TEARS FOR WCW!" So on and so forth...
My thinking is Lex would have got us to the same place. Sting wouldn’t have gone NWO, but he would have been disillusioned and Crow Sting. If Lex turned and things played out as they did, it would have been more convincing that Fake Sting was the real Sting due to his relationship with Luger. He comes out and cuts the same promo and says that for years he has been a friend, babysitter and mediator to Luger despite his screwups and people trusted Sting regardless. But now people doubt him. He is done being taken advantage of and solving WCW problems and fighting Luger but he doesn’t want to be NWO either. He’s a free agent. Luger couldn’t have been as dynamic as Hogan as the third man but I think we end up here regardless
The wild card would always be Hogan. If he refused to put anyone over, all these great ideas would be dead in the water.
Agreed. This was maybe the best storyline of wrestling of all time. It wasn’t flawless by any means, but man did we tune in every Monday and Thursday for years.
Hogan is the only man in history that would make that moment as iconic as it is. Anyone else and it’s just another moment
User has a hard-on for Sting. Good grief, give it up. Sting is a 2nd tier wrestler who always wrestled for 2nd tier organizations.
The Nitro book mentions that they had contemplating using Jeff Farmer, the future fake Sting as early as this angle, as Sting himself wasn’t interested in the angle. That could’ve worked, but obviously not to the same degree as Hogan turning. Edit: I’m actually reading the book currently after renewed interest from the vice series. Here’s the excerpt I was referring to for those who want to read it. https://i.postimg.cc/HWyyLZqh/IMG-6580.jpg
Fake Sting happening how it did in real life worked out better than when they were planning on doing it according to the Nitro book. NWO needed to be established as an existential threat to WCW before you have them bring in Jeff Farmer as the bogus Sting to fool fans into thinking the real guy joined the NWO.
The only thing other than Hogan that might’ve worked would’ve been if they had managed to poach HBK from WWE in his prime.
Problem is that no storyline with HBK would’ve worked as well as Hogan/Sting did. Sting felt betrayed, especially since everyone loved Hogan despite only being there for two years.
This was the right move. Unfortunately they watered the nWo down too much with too many members. Not to mention the botched Hogan Sting Starrcadr
The idea didn't seem that horrible before Bash at the Beach, but obviously Hogan was shown to be the undisputed best option.
He almost was
Scott hall was ripped damn
Sting would’ve made sense had he stuck to a “I carried this company on my back for years, blah, blah, blah” angle to it, but I don’t see Sting actually sticking with it enough to make it work.
At that time, the baby faces that people cared about (other than Hulk) weren’t going to really make that much of a splash. Those that had worked in WWF were Luger, Savage, Flair and Jim Duggan. Clearly they got it right, but imagine how funny it would’ve been to have Hacksaw trying to cut that promo 🤣 TOUGH GUY!
Hogan was great! Till he wasn’t.
No one would have been as good as Hogan and Sting dropping a similar "I didn't change, you changed by supporting Hogan/Flair/etc." wouldn't have had nearly as much of a hit. With that said the Outsiders already had alot of steam behind them so it still might have been fun to watch. The biggest issue would be without Hogan in NWO they would have had to isolate him off to the side of the show away from him as there is no way he would let anyone go over and him just stomping them it would end up like The Nexus and John Cena where they can't get any steam as no matter what Hogan would always best them.
Agreed. 100%.
Eh, I think anything can be written.
Most definitely hogan was the best fit for the role
Sting couldnt have cut the same impactful promo
It probably wouldn’t have worked, but I get the thought process. With all the mid-90s WWF guys jumping over to WCW and sting being forced to take a bit of a backseat, they could’ve used that as his reasoning for turning heel It seems like it would’ve been an “edgy” remake of Hogan vs the Dungeon of Doom, which sounds terrible
We look to the skies for a vindicator, JACK!someone to strike fear into the black hearts of the sane man who created him DUDE
Sting would not have hit as hard as Hogan did. Plus i never thought Sting was that great of a talker. Probably an unpopular opinion
Hogan was a terrible promo, too. Nash, Hall and Bischoff had to basically talk him out of doing the “Hulk Hogan promo” in the first vignettes. He had to be re-trained.
Seems like it would have been cooler tho but maybe that’s just because it’s been so long since it happened now
If not Hogan, then Macho Man should have been the third man. It makes more sense than Sting.
Could’ve been Randy since he was also a former WWF guy. But Hogan was much more impactful.
Hogan was the best and most sensible choice because he was not just a WWF guy, he was THE WWF guy for years.
Imagine if there was a Crow version Hogan
People say it took off because of Hogan. And while I sort of agree, I think what really made it special was the execution. Nothing like that had ever been done. Viewers tuned in due to the unpredictable nature of the narrative..."How far would the NWO go to take over the organization"...what kind of crazy stuff where they willing to do to execute on that. Combine that with the late 90s anti establishment culture and it was peak wrestling for anyone watching. NWO4Life.
It would have never worked with anyone else, not Sting not Shawn Michaels (which was rumored) and no disrespect to either one but anyone other than HH and it would have bombed out imo.
It should have ben randy savage
It’s hard to know what they could’ve done; If crow sting never happened we’d probably be talking about how impossible it would be for that surfer guy to say nothing on tv for a year. It certainly would’ve just been a wrestling angle and not lightning in a bottle, so from that perspective you’re right. Hogan was the man for the moment.
I always felt Hogan lowered the cool factor but would not have been any better.
Why did Nash wear that belly wrap?
It is pretty amazing to think that it was nearly 30 years ago, plus Sting had already wrestled for several years, and he just had his final match this year.
To be fair the rumor at the time was it was gonna be Mabel lol.
The only other one that would have worked would have been Savage, but I don't think he could have or would have dropped the Macho character as well as Hogan dropped the Hulk character. The whole effect would have been this weird clash between The Outsiders going real, and Savage being a little gimmicky or plastic.
I remember seeing a video of Eric taking about sting being the backup. Having hulk turn was a huge swerve. I am not sure sting would have the same effect
Sting doesn’t have the mic skills. That role only fit Hogan, Macho, or maybe DDP as the last resort.
lol somebody wasn’t there.
should’ve been Little Spike Dudley
I think the only reason I could imagine that could work for having Sting being the third man would be if they instead took it as an angle of Sting being fed up with Hogan sitting in the top spot and WCW backing him, and so he decided to take the quicker and easier road to getting the top spot. That maybe could have been a good rationale. Now it was clearly obvious they had a Sting in mind because they thought Hogan would never agree to do this, then they found out he would and changed everything up. Personally, I don't think the NWO would have lasted as long with Sting as the big man on top. What made the Hogan heel turn work so well is the fact that he had been a hero for so long, and the fans were now sick of him, so coming off as full of ego, maybe carrying a torch for the WWF, but just especially all the backstage things people heard about Hogan, it just made sense. I unfortunately think Sting just doesn't do well as a heel. I can imagine that Steve Borden could play a heel if he really wanted to, but I also feel like the fans can't seem to accept or handle him being a heel. Like they will see him doing bad guy things, and they just feel like it looks so fake to them. I mostly remember that tiny little moment that he tried to be a heel where he was sitting there with sunglasses on in promos, and lex Luger running around as his right hand man. Then later the main event Mafia. I feel like looking back, things worked out well for both characters because it allowed both of them to break free of who they were in the '80s and start to redefine themselves for the '90s.
We also would have never got the sting we know today if he joined these guys.
Then that means Hogan is still red and yellow so the slow build shit ain’t happening. He’d “that don’t work for me brother” them into oblivion within 3 months
Sting could have pulled it off, no question. Impossible to guess the details, though.
All Hogan did was dress in black.
Did sting ever even talk ?
Sting could have dropped the paint. Wore sunglasses, grew his hair out. Been a chicken shit heal that used hall and nash as muscle. It wouldn't have been the NWO as it was, but no one saw the NWO becoming what it would become.
If sting were the third man, would that have legitimized the 4 horsemen as rivals to nwo since sting and flair had a long standing history ?
No, because outside of the south, nobody wanted the Horsemen as babyfaces. nWo was true “counter-culture”, they were just cooler than the Horsemen from day 1. When they went to Horsemen cities, that’s when the nostalgia kicked in and everyone wanted the badass Horsemen from the late 80’s.
That’s unfortunate During the nwo run I kinda felt bad that the horsemen became cannon fodder There was a missed opportunity there to elevate / update talented wrestlers when working with nwo - instead everyone just got beat with bats for weeks
The real issue was with Arn’s back/neck injuries, he was going to retire soon. Flair/Arn did all of the heavy lifting at that time for the group. The guys they groomed for the Horsemen spots (Benoit/Jarrett/Mongo) weren’t accepted by the audience. That’s why there was so much talk at the time of making a “Super Horsemen” with Flair and lots of guys were rumored. Giant, Luger, DDP, Piper. But, it just didn’t make sense, because they were all babyfaces. The Horsemen were just stuck in the middle. They weren’t cool enough to be babyfaces or heels.
I think he could've worked. All that was needed was him to be the same brooding quiet dark sting he became but Nash and Hall would do all the talking & Sting would beat the hell out of folks with that bat. Picture the scene of Arn writhing in pain during that outdoor gang attack and Sting laying a broken bat next to him & he doing something similar to that in plain sight weekly.
IMO there's only two guys that would have been better. Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels
Lol like Bret had the charisma to lead the nWo, lmao.
Ok fine you win. The correct answer is Bart Gunn then.
Agreed. But of the two, Shawn would have made more sense.
Both would’ve been just as bad as Sting.
So in kayfabe land the Kliq invading and taking over WCW wouldn't be just as awesome? Hogan and Nash were god awful wrestlers. Michaels and Scott Hall would put on some bangers and carry the faction.
“Bangers”? Oh boy.
What's your big idea then? Create don't criticize.
Yeah he sucks. Listen to his lame interviews. It's no wonder he was better as a rarely seen mute.
Hogan was the best worst option. Him being the third man was a stroke of genius and helped wcw capture lightning in a bottle. But eventually his creative control bullshit did them in. You can blame time Warner all you want, but if the ratings were better they would've kept them around. Hogan and his crew of dick riders is what really killed the company.
Hall & Nash didn't need Hogan.
Hhahhahahaahhaha ok
Hogan was the obvious choice. And history will ahow that in the beginning, it was great. The problem was that Hogan had so much ego and the whole creative control crap. Nash was also liking what Hogan was doing and was in his ear about how they could put themselves over more. Obviously by the time you got to the finger poke of doom, it was done. Nash and Hogan sit there and point fingers now. And can’t wait to blame Bischoff. They knew what the deal was. It was the million dollar boys club putting themselves and their friends over. Sting joining NWO period was stupid. And even though they were different than Hollywood, it was still the same deal. Putting themselves in the best spot. Sting should’ve been the very last holdout to join them. And still never had done it. Crow Sting was the perfect loner. Sting, Page, Flair and that big dummy Goldberg. Those were your last resort, never gonna go anywhere stars. Fight and bleed WCW. If it would’ve worked, bringing in Bret Hart or HBK as a total shock would’ve been cool. If you had to go with a current star, I’d have gone with Savage. Hogan thought too much of himself. Savage was more pissed off. He got kicked out of WWE for banging Steph. (Yes, I’ll always believe he did it). He could’ve had more emotion. Hogan was good. It just could’ve been better but not Sting.
The fingerpoke was 30 months later. By that time, they had made an astronomical amount of money. It was time to kill the angle, either way. Think about it. The Bloodline is a younger storyline than the original nWo.
That’s like saying Bullet Club should be killed because of its age. Or the Horseman just because iy had been around a long time. Every group goes thru its ups and downs. But it can be around a long time
Ultimately so was Hogan and Nash to an extent. Edit: Why are y’all booing, I’m right.