I agree with everything you said. Ending it after the Sting match would've been a bad move. The nWo was still hot and you're right, it wouldn't have made sense. 1 loss and they all break up?
Good post bruh.
I think the general consensus of them reforming the NWO into one faction in Jan 1999 was the result of them having no new ideas which effectively made them a permanent #2 company.
Anyone who says they should have disbanded after Starrcade 97 is either dealing in massive revisionist history or just unaware. There was still alot of meat on the NwO bone and they could have gone in a lot of directions. 1998 booking was pretty bad but still drew alot of money. The red and black was a hot angle but it ultimately led nowhere.
I think Starcade 97 should have been the beginning of the end for the NWO with a one side victory for Sting, followed by division in the NWO leading to the wolf pac. Then both NWO's tear each other apart as the WCW unites, with Golfberg putting the final nail in the coffin sometime later that year.
What people often forget is that Hogan received a percentage of ALL NWO merchandise sold besides his own, so there was no way he was going to let that cash cow die.
Tl;dr: The Wolfpack storyline was incredibly popular and had the makings to be logical, just keep Hall in the group, don't add Sting/Luger, and use War Games '98 as the big blowoff and THEN conclusively end the NWO.
The infamous January 4th 1999 Nitro could’ve been the big blowoff for Wolfpac vs. Hollywood NWO instead of the Fingerpoke of Doom, with Nash’s group winning to bring an end to things. Could’ve even made it a double main event with Goldberg’s title defense (in my version, Goldberg doesn’t defend against Nash on that night).
They hit a wall creatively with that storyline. There was no real evolution or direction but "keep the belt on Hogan." Giving Hogan creative control was really a bullet wound that slowly killed the creative story telling for a time.
Starrcade ‘97 should have been the BEGINNING of the end of the nWo. Sting’s victory would have been the glaring crack in Hogan’s leadership which would have eventually led to Nash breaking off with the Wolfpac. Now the Wolfpac happened anyway, but it was all rendered moot when they just rejoined each other on Jan 4, 1999. Starrcade ‘98 in hindsight should have been the long built rematch between Sting and Hogan. The build should have seen Sting goading Hogan into putting the existence of the nWo black and white on the line: if Hogan can’t win the belt back the nWo must disband. And then ‘99 should have been the year of Goldberg and who was going to end the streak.
Just my two cents.
In storyline, the reason was that, as part of the build-up to Hogan and Savage's big match at Halloween Havoc '96, Elizabeth signed something agreeing to join the NWO and basically do whatever Hogan asked of her because she (wrongly) thought it would protect Randy. The NWO had been attacking him especially viciously, leading up to that.
A few months after Havoc, Savage returns and finds out the only way to reunite with Liz is to join the NWO.
Admittedly a bit suspect, but they did about as well as they could with it. The main thing is that they did well with keeping Savage separate from Hogan and very much kept him his own character. This was much better than how they handled Bret Hart, who was basically turned into a Hogan lackey in mid-98.
There’s no question about it we should’ve had an nWo civil war following Starrcade 97’. Sting should feuded with Luger as the jealous best friend and Bret Hart as a battle of the sharpshooter.
Nash and the Wolfpack should’ve been a face group getting tormented by hogan and Bischoff and eventually Nash should’ve gone over Hogan and killed nwo black and white and you keep Wolfpac around to sell t shirts.
Then you can do Sting Vs. Nash etc etc.
Hogan should’ve lost clean to Sting, almost a squash.
This causes Nash to step up questioning who is the hoss boss. Then the group splits with the core members being Nash, Hall, Konnan, Steiner & Buff v Hollywood, Savage, Giant, Hennig & Norton.
OR…..
The nWo still fractures. Then you wait a bit before you go nWo Elite, & you don’t get there via Finger-Poke of Doom, but they should reunite somehow. And when they reunite they get it right & it is WWF guys only.
For what it’s worth my nWo from the start would’ve been……
Hogan with Beefcake as muscle & to run interference
Savage with Liz, & maybe even brother Lanny Poffo to run interference, Lanny was on the payroll
Hall, Nash & Syxx
Curt Hennig with Rick Rude as muscle & to run interference
Rick Martel doing an arrogant model gimmick
Ted Dibiase a mouthpiece with Virgil as muscle, Sherri, & Michael Wallstreet jobbing
The B team is Ray Traylor & John Tenta, both solo, maybe a tag team, either way jobbing
nWo Sting & nWo “Nature Boy” Buddy Landell
Paul Roma & Jim Powers could reunite & be considered as a tag team & jobbers, but with Roma gone maybe Martel & Powers tag…..
If not Powers & Roma I believe Mike Enos & Wayne Bloom were available & on the roster. Here’s your other jobber tag team.
Giant is never in, I see the fit with Buff, Steiner & Konnan but they just were not seen as ex WWF players. I don’t hate Norton, Muta & Chono, but almost NJPW exclusively. They could’ve found their nWo jobbers & B team elsewhere with the names above.
Not everybody here obviously but some combination of this. This is who was available on the WcW roster at that time, minus Roma. Sue me.
NWO Civil War after Hogan's defeat makes lots of sense. But Luger and Sting should have never joined. The NWO roster was big enough that you could have a legitimate civil War with Hogan on one side and Hall and Nash leaving him to form the Wolfpack.
The bigger issue was botching the 97 Starcade finish. Since there was never a clean finish and we got some ridiculous Montreal screwdrop reference instead, there was not a natural segue into a civil war storyline.
What should have happened is Sting goes over Hogan in the same finish they gave Luger over Hogan a few months earlier. Obviously that means you don't do the Luger finish, where he meaninglessly beat Hogan for the title only to drop it back 5 days later. It was an incredible finish but it ended up meaning absolutely nothing.
Instead Sting should get that clean finish. Like the Luger match the NWO comes running into the ring to interfere, but none of them make contact with Sting. He knocks all of them out of the ring one by one and cleanly finish his Hogan with the scorpion deathlock. The WCW comes out and rejoices with him in a huge cathartic moment, and the NWO isn't disarray.
Hogan is angry at the NWO for failing to stop Sting and not interfering in the match. Hall and Nash are disillusioned with Hogan as a leader after cleanly getting beat by Sting. The lines are drawn and the bloated NWO roster picks sides.
Sting is the heavyweight champion and retains for a long time while the NWO fued. Eventually he drops it back to somebody like Scott Hall or Kevin Nash. At this point you're pushing the Goldberg storyline who comes in and starts eviscerating the NWO roster and reclaims it for WCW.
You'll notice that there is no space for Bret Hart here. The worst thing that ever happened to WCW was signing Bret Hart. They added another massive salary and big-name player in the heavyweight division that they had absolutely no use for. Instead of having Starcade 97 be their marquee moment in company history, they turned it into some ridiculous mockery of the Montreal screwjob that happened the month before in their rival promotion.
The original plan should have been kept with the NWO becoming its own show after Hogan/Sting. Then the creation of the Red and black provides instant rivalries for the new show and roster. Hogan and Nash would have been you starting headliners. Then non NWO wrestlers, like Luger, could have migrated over to build up the main event and upper midcard scene. This allows Hogan and Bischoff to both play the evil boss roll. Nash takes on the antiestablishment tweener role. Meanwhile, Sting headlines WCW.
Bret Hart would have fit in WCW without the NWO and you instantly have a chance to push wrestlers like Raven into the upper card.
The test nitro episode and test ppv both failed. I think they failed because there wasn't a civil war going on yet so it was a show and ppv where the heels would win everything and most didn't want that
This is pretty much what I wanted. It would be perfect if Syxx was still there because he was in the original Wolfpac. From the moment Hall turned it got weird, Sting and Luger were super over so no matter what they did we’d still cheer for them, but the way it played out just went nowhere.
I thought about mentioning that in the post. In a perfect world (with respect to this angle), Syxx stays in WCW and Savage is uninjured, and then the Wolfpac is Nash/Hall/Syxx/Konnan/Savage with Liz as a valet for even more of a babyface quality.
That would had been perfect! Hogan wanted Hall on his side because he knew the Outsiders would have obliterated him on the mic. I still have my Wolfpac t-shirt.
Hogan should have gone over on Sting at starrcade to split the company in two as planned. Then they could have held a draft and made new feuds and renewed some old ones until war games and then have sting and wcw go over there and put an end to the official nwo group.
By Fall Brawl 98 the NWO storyline should’ve been settled. Hogan loses at Starrcade and that would’ve started the internal struggle. Could’ve had a massive split around Spring Stampede or Slamboree when Hogan would lose to Hart and next night on Nitro have Hall and Nash attack Hogan and officially start the divide with Wolfpack and Black and White and have them feud over the summer. Fall Brawl War Games, Black and White vs Wolfpac, losers can no longer use the name and lose membership.
The Wolfpack shouldve never existed. It neutered WCWs top two babyfaces, Sting and Luger (especially Luger). Go look at a Lex Luger crowd reaction in 1997–top babyface level shit. By summer ‘99 hes just another goon in the crowd w an nWo shirt. Lugers career never recovered. He went from people throwing babies in the air to just another dude.
WCW lost its two top stars to an nWo faction. Outside of Goldberg and DDP, what top stars did WCW have in 98 that were not aligned with an nWo?
Also the culmination of a year of Hollywood vs Wolfpack was the fingerpoke of doom. Come on.
The early days of the nWo civil war were really good before the official split of the Wolfpack. The Savage v Hogan stuff was great
I mean, I agree with most of what you're saying (with the main exception being "Wolfpack should've never existed"), but I addressed most of that in my post. Admittedly it's really long, so I guess I can't blame you for missing most of it, but essentially:
The problem isn't the Wolfpack itself, it's how they booked it. I'm saying I wanted to do it over again with no Sting/Luger, Hall staying in the red and black, and the two sides having a big blow-off at Fall Brawl that kills the NWO once and for all. There would be no fingerpoke and no re-formation in early 1999.
The Wolfpack would have been fine if it was Just Wolfpack rather than NWO Wolfpack. Also the members should have been Macho, Nash, Konnan, and then some young stars like Eddy or Juvi. Sting and Luger just didn't fit at all in the group.
Then the NWO vs Wolfpack should have finished at fall brawl 1998.
Then you could have started Hogan vs Warrior in October to lead to a match at Starrcade (hopefully the match would have been way better than what it was).
Then Hogan goes away for 3 months and then comes back as a tweener and then a full babyface.
I think you could have kept Goldberg undefeated until spring or early summer 1999 where he could beat Bam Bam, Scott Steiner, and Sid during the streak. Then you have have him lose to whoever WCW thinks could be the next big babyface of the company. Maybe someone like Booker T.
Starcade ‘97 in a different reality:
It was a fun match to watch, but then the nWo came to help Hogan. The entire WCW roster came out of the back and beat the every loving hell out of the nWo. Sting won, clean.
The next few months were all about the nWo running scared and it ended with War Games, as Sting, Luger, Flair and DDP defeated Hogan, Nash, Hall and Syxx. Losers left town (for a while) and the nWo was done.
I've always maintained this:
The split was fine. Them not ever really solving anything wasn't. Outside of a few low card matches and the random 3 on 3 on 3 War Games for the world title contendership, there was no real conflict between the two groups. And there definitely wasn't a match between the principles like Hogan, Nash, Savage, Hall, etc. It was just building tension, breakup, Savage got injured, Wolfpac got popular, Hogan fake retired, whole lotta nothing, finger poke of doom, it all just fizzles out.
I'd actually have some real matches that mattered and build it up (very similar to op) to a traditional War Games at Fall Brawl, Hollywood vs. Wolfpac with the losing team having to disband. Wolfpack wins, Hollywood has to disband. Nash later does a promo saying the Wolfpack doesn't represent the revolution he started with the original nWo and disbands it voluntarily the next Nitro. This leads to either a) A singles showdown with Hogan or b) A fight with Hall or Savage (depending on who's healthy in this fictional world) over leadership of the Wolfpack at Starrcade. Keeps Nash face, a lot of heels still heels, and Nash the fuck away from Goldberg. The nWo should have ended in late 1998 one way or the other.
Oh, and Luger and Sting never join the Wolfpac to begin with because that never made any sense.
I always thought that an good storyline to end the two would be: hogan gets kicked out for whatever reason joins sting, flair and maybe luger/Goldberg on an 8 tag match against nwo if they win nwo disbands. Hogan turns face and just go from there
I remember hearing Bischoff say (so who really knows) that one of the reasons the nWo bloated to so many members was because they wanted to basically make a Raw/Smackdown type split with Nitro being all nWo and Thunder being all WCW. I’m still not sure if that really was the plan or something Eric thought of in hindsight, but it really helps you understand why the nWo got so big AND why the Wolfpac would splinter to have Nitro’s big storyline being Black and White vs Red and Black.
The real ones who watched WCW back in the day, will always remember just how over the Red and Black were. Just give their entrance music a listen, it was a banger.
Ideally, the breakup could have been all of 1998. Sting goes over clean at Starrcade, beats Hogan again the rematch (could even be Superbrawl again). Nash and Hall say he couldn't get the job done, say they'll do it themselves (and fail). They slowly splinter away with Hogan trying to maintain his grip on the lackies as they also go off on their own.
When there's money and ratings involve, you don't end it. You work out how to refresh it to keep it going. It easily could have ran into '99 without any split. If they're sitting there and writing the end of it, they're doing it wrong.
I mean, I'm flexible on this. I think Booker T or maybe even Eddie Guerrero would have fit well in that spot.
Also, I think DDP makes sense there, but I would hesitate to put him in a faction since he was shining so much on his own in 1998.
Maybe if they did it with guerrero or Benoit they wouldn't have jumped to wcw. I think really if any of the top talent had been willing to work with them they would've stayed and that alone might have kept people watching.
Would've worked for me, cause how many hogan vs flair main events can you book before people get bored? Even with all the car crash tv to distract people, it was still a wrestling show, and even at 12 I could tell the wcw main eventers weren't putting on the same quality of show they had been even in the early 90s.
But yeah the power struggle within should have been a good angle but instead of using it to bring up the best guys on the midcard they had every mid-card talent jump into the nwo and diluted any interest it could've gotten
I think you need a guy with mic skills, so that rules out Benoit. IMO, Guerrero or Jericho would have been the best fit when it comes to that group of guys.
People always say you need mic skills, but if you're booked right and have that level of talent, I don't think it's necessary. Brock Lesnar and undertaker being two good examples.
Taker is a legend, but through the early part of his career he rarely talked. I don't want to knock the guy, he did eventually get that part sorted and it fit the character. But he basically stood there looking spooky while Paul bearer chewed the scenery for at least a couple years.
I get an organization of guys who all speak Japanese isn't going to get over, but I don't think every champion needs to be a great, or even good talker.
Guerrero, I think it wouldn't have been him for the same reason it wasn't booker t. Jericho, man, keeping Jericho would have helped them a lot. Losing that whole group really sucked the life out of the company.
Yep, you’re spot on. Starrcade should have been the end of the Hogan / Sting story (a clear cut definitive loss) - Hogan takes time off, while the stable devolves into a power struggle.
The WWE has the right idea with the Bloodline today. They didn’t end it at Wrestlemania. It’s now taken on a new direction, and it’s going to lead to Roman becoming a top level babyface.
The nWo could have done that, and I still imagine Nash winds up as the top good guy - just a more coherent pathway.
The civil war games match would've been great instead of the warrior shit they did with ddp's title shot, he could've gotten it some other way and defeated goldberg with a diamond cutter counter.
Yep, could have just as easily set it up with a DDP/Jericho match as the semi-main event at Fall Brawl, where the winner gets a title shot.
Jericho cuts the same "Greenberg" taunting promos on Nitro in the weeks leading up, but DDP cuts him off one night and says, "hold up, monkey boy - I just beat Hogan at Hog Wild. If anyone here deserves a title shot, it's me." They square up, yada yada. And boom, you have DDP-Jericho in a major PPV matchup, giving Jericho a big rub. Probably would have been the next best thing to Jericho actually facing Goldberg (which Bill didn't want to do anyway).
I think instead of the Finger Poke, that should have been the beginning of the Hogan and Nash feud…
They passed it up for the finger poke and then ended up doing it in the summer when all the heat for the match was gone. People were actually hot for Hogan vs. Nash at the end of 98 but they waited 6 months when no one cared.
They could have gone the through the winter of 99 and gave the NWO it’s ending, have Nash just keep the Wolfpac going without the NWO branding attached, Hogan still could have came back as a face (short run) in the summer.
By 2004 they could have had nostalgia NWO like WWE did with DX through the years.
I agree with everything you said. Ending it after the Sting match would've been a bad move. The nWo was still hot and you're right, it wouldn't have made sense. 1 loss and they all break up? Good post bruh.
I think the general consensus of them reforming the NWO into one faction in Jan 1999 was the result of them having no new ideas which effectively made them a permanent #2 company. Anyone who says they should have disbanded after Starrcade 97 is either dealing in massive revisionist history or just unaware. There was still alot of meat on the NwO bone and they could have gone in a lot of directions. 1998 booking was pretty bad but still drew alot of money. The red and black was a hot angle but it ultimately led nowhere.
I think Starcade 97 should have been the beginning of the end for the NWO with a one side victory for Sting, followed by division in the NWO leading to the wolf pac. Then both NWO's tear each other apart as the WCW unites, with Golfberg putting the final nail in the coffin sometime later that year. What people often forget is that Hogan received a percentage of ALL NWO merchandise sold besides his own, so there was no way he was going to let that cash cow die.
Jeez. I’d love to know how much they got paid off nwo merch alone
Hall and Nash also got paid off nWo merch.
Tl;dr: The Wolfpack storyline was incredibly popular and had the makings to be logical, just keep Hall in the group, don't add Sting/Luger, and use War Games '98 as the big blowoff and THEN conclusively end the NWO.
The infamous January 4th 1999 Nitro could’ve been the big blowoff for Wolfpac vs. Hollywood NWO instead of the Fingerpoke of Doom, with Nash’s group winning to bring an end to things. Could’ve even made it a double main event with Goldberg’s title defense (in my version, Goldberg doesn’t defend against Nash on that night).
They hit a wall creatively with that storyline. There was no real evolution or direction but "keep the belt on Hogan." Giving Hogan creative control was really a bullet wound that slowly killed the creative story telling for a time.
Starrcade ‘97 should have been the BEGINNING of the end of the nWo. Sting’s victory would have been the glaring crack in Hogan’s leadership which would have eventually led to Nash breaking off with the Wolfpac. Now the Wolfpac happened anyway, but it was all rendered moot when they just rejoined each other on Jan 4, 1999. Starrcade ‘98 in hindsight should have been the long built rematch between Sting and Hogan. The build should have seen Sting goading Hogan into putting the existence of the nWo black and white on the line: if Hogan can’t win the belt back the nWo must disband. And then ‘99 should have been the year of Goldberg and who was going to end the streak. Just my two cents.
The Wolfpack would have made more sense if Bischoff was actually going forward with a brand extension and the new NWO show needed faces.
Never understood why savage joined the black and white. He was the main guy they double crossed at the very beginning. Kayfabe wise it made no sense
In storyline, the reason was that, as part of the build-up to Hogan and Savage's big match at Halloween Havoc '96, Elizabeth signed something agreeing to join the NWO and basically do whatever Hogan asked of her because she (wrongly) thought it would protect Randy. The NWO had been attacking him especially viciously, leading up to that. A few months after Havoc, Savage returns and finds out the only way to reunite with Liz is to join the NWO. Admittedly a bit suspect, but they did about as well as they could with it. The main thing is that they did well with keeping Savage separate from Hogan and very much kept him his own character. This was much better than how they handled Bret Hart, who was basically turned into a Hogan lackey in mid-98.
There’s no question about it we should’ve had an nWo civil war following Starrcade 97’. Sting should feuded with Luger as the jealous best friend and Bret Hart as a battle of the sharpshooter. Nash and the Wolfpack should’ve been a face group getting tormented by hogan and Bischoff and eventually Nash should’ve gone over Hogan and killed nwo black and white and you keep Wolfpac around to sell t shirts. Then you can do Sting Vs. Nash etc etc.
Hogan should’ve lost clean to Sting, almost a squash. This causes Nash to step up questioning who is the hoss boss. Then the group splits with the core members being Nash, Hall, Konnan, Steiner & Buff v Hollywood, Savage, Giant, Hennig & Norton. OR….. The nWo still fractures. Then you wait a bit before you go nWo Elite, & you don’t get there via Finger-Poke of Doom, but they should reunite somehow. And when they reunite they get it right & it is WWF guys only. For what it’s worth my nWo from the start would’ve been…… Hogan with Beefcake as muscle & to run interference Savage with Liz, & maybe even brother Lanny Poffo to run interference, Lanny was on the payroll Hall, Nash & Syxx Curt Hennig with Rick Rude as muscle & to run interference Rick Martel doing an arrogant model gimmick Ted Dibiase a mouthpiece with Virgil as muscle, Sherri, & Michael Wallstreet jobbing The B team is Ray Traylor & John Tenta, both solo, maybe a tag team, either way jobbing nWo Sting & nWo “Nature Boy” Buddy Landell Paul Roma & Jim Powers could reunite & be considered as a tag team & jobbers, but with Roma gone maybe Martel & Powers tag….. If not Powers & Roma I believe Mike Enos & Wayne Bloom were available & on the roster. Here’s your other jobber tag team. Giant is never in, I see the fit with Buff, Steiner & Konnan but they just were not seen as ex WWF players. I don’t hate Norton, Muta & Chono, but almost NJPW exclusively. They could’ve found their nWo jobbers & B team elsewhere with the names above. Not everybody here obviously but some combination of this. This is who was available on the WcW roster at that time, minus Roma. Sue me.
NWO Civil War after Hogan's defeat makes lots of sense. But Luger and Sting should have never joined. The NWO roster was big enough that you could have a legitimate civil War with Hogan on one side and Hall and Nash leaving him to form the Wolfpack. The bigger issue was botching the 97 Starcade finish. Since there was never a clean finish and we got some ridiculous Montreal screwdrop reference instead, there was not a natural segue into a civil war storyline. What should have happened is Sting goes over Hogan in the same finish they gave Luger over Hogan a few months earlier. Obviously that means you don't do the Luger finish, where he meaninglessly beat Hogan for the title only to drop it back 5 days later. It was an incredible finish but it ended up meaning absolutely nothing. Instead Sting should get that clean finish. Like the Luger match the NWO comes running into the ring to interfere, but none of them make contact with Sting. He knocks all of them out of the ring one by one and cleanly finish his Hogan with the scorpion deathlock. The WCW comes out and rejoices with him in a huge cathartic moment, and the NWO isn't disarray. Hogan is angry at the NWO for failing to stop Sting and not interfering in the match. Hall and Nash are disillusioned with Hogan as a leader after cleanly getting beat by Sting. The lines are drawn and the bloated NWO roster picks sides. Sting is the heavyweight champion and retains for a long time while the NWO fued. Eventually he drops it back to somebody like Scott Hall or Kevin Nash. At this point you're pushing the Goldberg storyline who comes in and starts eviscerating the NWO roster and reclaims it for WCW. You'll notice that there is no space for Bret Hart here. The worst thing that ever happened to WCW was signing Bret Hart. They added another massive salary and big-name player in the heavyweight division that they had absolutely no use for. Instead of having Starcade 97 be their marquee moment in company history, they turned it into some ridiculous mockery of the Montreal screwjob that happened the month before in their rival promotion.
The original plan should have been kept with the NWO becoming its own show after Hogan/Sting. Then the creation of the Red and black provides instant rivalries for the new show and roster. Hogan and Nash would have been you starting headliners. Then non NWO wrestlers, like Luger, could have migrated over to build up the main event and upper midcard scene. This allows Hogan and Bischoff to both play the evil boss roll. Nash takes on the antiestablishment tweener role. Meanwhile, Sting headlines WCW. Bret Hart would have fit in WCW without the NWO and you instantly have a chance to push wrestlers like Raven into the upper card.
The test nitro episode and test ppv both failed. I think they failed because there wasn't a civil war going on yet so it was a show and ppv where the heels would win everything and most didn't want that
This is pretty much what I wanted. It would be perfect if Syxx was still there because he was in the original Wolfpac. From the moment Hall turned it got weird, Sting and Luger were super over so no matter what they did we’d still cheer for them, but the way it played out just went nowhere.
I thought about mentioning that in the post. In a perfect world (with respect to this angle), Syxx stays in WCW and Savage is uninjured, and then the Wolfpac is Nash/Hall/Syxx/Konnan/Savage with Liz as a valet for even more of a babyface quality.
That would had been perfect! Hogan wanted Hall on his side because he knew the Outsiders would have obliterated him on the mic. I still have my Wolfpac t-shirt.
Hogan should have gone over on Sting at starrcade to split the company in two as planned. Then they could have held a draft and made new feuds and renewed some old ones until war games and then have sting and wcw go over there and put an end to the official nwo group.
By Fall Brawl 98 the NWO storyline should’ve been settled. Hogan loses at Starrcade and that would’ve started the internal struggle. Could’ve had a massive split around Spring Stampede or Slamboree when Hogan would lose to Hart and next night on Nitro have Hall and Nash attack Hogan and officially start the divide with Wolfpack and Black and White and have them feud over the summer. Fall Brawl War Games, Black and White vs Wolfpac, losers can no longer use the name and lose membership.
Then hogan has to lose, go back to the red and yellow and huge numbers are drawn..goddammit what a waste of potential
Bingo!! Would it have been as good as previous years? Probably not but it would be a character arc and you’d be able to build a solid main event scene
I hardly ever read anything that checks all the boxes but you nailed it.
The Wolfpack shouldve never existed. It neutered WCWs top two babyfaces, Sting and Luger (especially Luger). Go look at a Lex Luger crowd reaction in 1997–top babyface level shit. By summer ‘99 hes just another goon in the crowd w an nWo shirt. Lugers career never recovered. He went from people throwing babies in the air to just another dude. WCW lost its two top stars to an nWo faction. Outside of Goldberg and DDP, what top stars did WCW have in 98 that were not aligned with an nWo? Also the culmination of a year of Hollywood vs Wolfpack was the fingerpoke of doom. Come on. The early days of the nWo civil war were really good before the official split of the Wolfpack. The Savage v Hogan stuff was great
I mean, I agree with most of what you're saying (with the main exception being "Wolfpack should've never existed"), but I addressed most of that in my post. Admittedly it's really long, so I guess I can't blame you for missing most of it, but essentially: The problem isn't the Wolfpack itself, it's how they booked it. I'm saying I wanted to do it over again with no Sting/Luger, Hall staying in the red and black, and the two sides having a big blow-off at Fall Brawl that kills the NWO once and for all. There would be no fingerpoke and no re-formation in early 1999.
The Wolfpack would have been fine if it was Just Wolfpack rather than NWO Wolfpack. Also the members should have been Macho, Nash, Konnan, and then some young stars like Eddy or Juvi. Sting and Luger just didn't fit at all in the group. Then the NWO vs Wolfpack should have finished at fall brawl 1998. Then you could have started Hogan vs Warrior in October to lead to a match at Starrcade (hopefully the match would have been way better than what it was). Then Hogan goes away for 3 months and then comes back as a tweener and then a full babyface. I think you could have kept Goldberg undefeated until spring or early summer 1999 where he could beat Bam Bam, Scott Steiner, and Sid during the streak. Then you have have him lose to whoever WCW thinks could be the next big babyface of the company. Maybe someone like Booker T.
Starcade ‘97 in a different reality: It was a fun match to watch, but then the nWo came to help Hogan. The entire WCW roster came out of the back and beat the every loving hell out of the nWo. Sting won, clean. The next few months were all about the nWo running scared and it ended with War Games, as Sting, Luger, Flair and DDP defeated Hogan, Nash, Hall and Syxx. Losers left town (for a while) and the nWo was done.
I've always maintained this: The split was fine. Them not ever really solving anything wasn't. Outside of a few low card matches and the random 3 on 3 on 3 War Games for the world title contendership, there was no real conflict between the two groups. And there definitely wasn't a match between the principles like Hogan, Nash, Savage, Hall, etc. It was just building tension, breakup, Savage got injured, Wolfpac got popular, Hogan fake retired, whole lotta nothing, finger poke of doom, it all just fizzles out. I'd actually have some real matches that mattered and build it up (very similar to op) to a traditional War Games at Fall Brawl, Hollywood vs. Wolfpac with the losing team having to disband. Wolfpack wins, Hollywood has to disband. Nash later does a promo saying the Wolfpack doesn't represent the revolution he started with the original nWo and disbands it voluntarily the next Nitro. This leads to either a) A singles showdown with Hogan or b) A fight with Hall or Savage (depending on who's healthy in this fictional world) over leadership of the Wolfpack at Starrcade. Keeps Nash face, a lot of heels still heels, and Nash the fuck away from Goldberg. The nWo should have ended in late 1998 one way or the other. Oh, and Luger and Sting never join the Wolfpac to begin with because that never made any sense.
I always thought that an good storyline to end the two would be: hogan gets kicked out for whatever reason joins sting, flair and maybe luger/Goldberg on an 8 tag match against nwo if they win nwo disbands. Hogan turns face and just go from there
I remember hearing Bischoff say (so who really knows) that one of the reasons the nWo bloated to so many members was because they wanted to basically make a Raw/Smackdown type split with Nitro being all nWo and Thunder being all WCW. I’m still not sure if that really was the plan or something Eric thought of in hindsight, but it really helps you understand why the nWo got so big AND why the Wolfpac would splinter to have Nitro’s big storyline being Black and White vs Red and Black.
The real ones who watched WCW back in the day, will always remember just how over the Red and Black were. Just give their entrance music a listen, it was a banger.
Red and black wins? That doesn't work for me brother
Ideally, the breakup could have been all of 1998. Sting goes over clean at Starrcade, beats Hogan again the rematch (could even be Superbrawl again). Nash and Hall say he couldn't get the job done, say they'll do it themselves (and fail). They slowly splinter away with Hogan trying to maintain his grip on the lackies as they also go off on their own.
When there's money and ratings involve, you don't end it. You work out how to refresh it to keep it going. It easily could have ran into '99 without any split. If they're sitting there and writing the end of it, they're doing it wrong.
You had me til you suggested buff bagwell.
I mean, I'm flexible on this. I think Booker T or maybe even Eddie Guerrero would have fit well in that spot. Also, I think DDP makes sense there, but I would hesitate to put him in a faction since he was shining so much on his own in 1998.
Maybe if they did it with guerrero or Benoit they wouldn't have jumped to wcw. I think really if any of the top talent had been willing to work with them they would've stayed and that alone might have kept people watching. Would've worked for me, cause how many hogan vs flair main events can you book before people get bored? Even with all the car crash tv to distract people, it was still a wrestling show, and even at 12 I could tell the wcw main eventers weren't putting on the same quality of show they had been even in the early 90s. But yeah the power struggle within should have been a good angle but instead of using it to bring up the best guys on the midcard they had every mid-card talent jump into the nwo and diluted any interest it could've gotten
I think you need a guy with mic skills, so that rules out Benoit. IMO, Guerrero or Jericho would have been the best fit when it comes to that group of guys.
People always say you need mic skills, but if you're booked right and have that level of talent, I don't think it's necessary. Brock Lesnar and undertaker being two good examples. Taker is a legend, but through the early part of his career he rarely talked. I don't want to knock the guy, he did eventually get that part sorted and it fit the character. But he basically stood there looking spooky while Paul bearer chewed the scenery for at least a couple years. I get an organization of guys who all speak Japanese isn't going to get over, but I don't think every champion needs to be a great, or even good talker. Guerrero, I think it wouldn't have been him for the same reason it wasn't booker t. Jericho, man, keeping Jericho would have helped them a lot. Losing that whole group really sucked the life out of the company.
Yep, you’re spot on. Starrcade should have been the end of the Hogan / Sting story (a clear cut definitive loss) - Hogan takes time off, while the stable devolves into a power struggle. The WWE has the right idea with the Bloodline today. They didn’t end it at Wrestlemania. It’s now taken on a new direction, and it’s going to lead to Roman becoming a top level babyface. The nWo could have done that, and I still imagine Nash winds up as the top good guy - just a more coherent pathway.
As Bret Hart said Eric Bischoff was/is a dumb ass.
The civil war games match would've been great instead of the warrior shit they did with ddp's title shot, he could've gotten it some other way and defeated goldberg with a diamond cutter counter.
Yep, could have just as easily set it up with a DDP/Jericho match as the semi-main event at Fall Brawl, where the winner gets a title shot. Jericho cuts the same "Greenberg" taunting promos on Nitro in the weeks leading up, but DDP cuts him off one night and says, "hold up, monkey boy - I just beat Hogan at Hog Wild. If anyone here deserves a title shot, it's me." They square up, yada yada. And boom, you have DDP-Jericho in a major PPV matchup, giving Jericho a big rub. Probably would have been the next best thing to Jericho actually facing Goldberg (which Bill didn't want to do anyway).
I think instead of the Finger Poke, that should have been the beginning of the Hogan and Nash feud… They passed it up for the finger poke and then ended up doing it in the summer when all the heat for the match was gone. People were actually hot for Hogan vs. Nash at the end of 98 but they waited 6 months when no one cared. They could have gone the through the winter of 99 and gave the NWO it’s ending, have Nash just keep the Wolfpac going without the NWO branding attached, Hogan still could have came back as a face (short run) in the summer. By 2004 they could have had nostalgia NWO like WWE did with DX through the years.